Someone Knows Something - S1 Episode 10: The Abyss

Episode Date: May 2, 2016

Five scuba divers conduct a search of Holmes Lake. For transcripts of this series, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/season1/someone-knows-something-season-1-adrien-mcnaughton-transcripts-listen-1.3846202

Help turn off hesitation, turn off doubt, turn off fears. With your support, the YMCA of Greater Toronto helps people turn off whatever's holding them back so they can let their potential shine. Help turn on confidence and connections and possibilities. From youth shelters to job training, mental health counseling and beyond, the YMCA offers hundreds of programs that empower people to shine their brightest. See our charity's impact at ymcagta.org slash charity. This is a CBC Podcast.

The following program contains mature subject matter. You're listening to Someone Knows Something from CBC Radio. In 1972, five-year-old Adrian McNaughton vanished while on a fishing trip in eastern Ontario. Documentarian David Ridgen goes back to the small town he grew up in, searching for answers. The sound of spring peepers in April. They're here at Holmes Lake in a newly thawed pond. In a few hours, a dive to look for human remains will start. But the rest of the natural world is carrying on with other things to do. I really wish, for us, it was that simple. Hello? Hello? Oh, hey Barb, it's Dave. Oh, I've got David reaching here, so I've got to go, okay? I don't know David.

I thought he was alive. Maybe that's been wishful thinking. I don't know. I don't know what to think. And these guys are going to do their best. They're going to search through the area right in the quadrants of the North End. And I was just thinking today, the water's fairly clear.

So we'll start at 830. We're going to meet up there at 830 with the doctors. You know, these are all remote possibilities, so we'll just take 8.30, then we're going to meet up there at 8.30 with the doctors. Oh yeah. You know, these are all remote possibilities, so we'll just take it as it comes, you know. Hmm. Well David, I hope they find something. I would just like to know one way or the other whether he's dead or alive. Early the next morning at Holmes Lake. So we'll just bring the boat into the water and I think we'll just let the divers deal with the boat.

And the canoe I'll take over after myself to the site. Definitely colder than I thought it would be. With the wind blowing off Holmes Lake, it feels about zero degrees as I record an aluminum boat and yellow canoe being dragged off a trailer. But the sun's out and temperature's slowly rising, and Mike Grebler and his team of four other divers have begun to arrive. How you doing, Mike? Obviously, the ice is gone.

My hands are freezing. That's Kathy. Hey, Kathy, nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. How you doing? Hi, Scott, I'm David. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you.

This is the gang. That's all of us. No sense waiting. We've got everybody here. Three men and a woman. We'll get together and we'll go through a briefing together with everyone. All trained volunteers, all ready to go. A little chilly but uh...

This is just a crisp beautiful morning. We're in Canada. It's just lovely out. Maybe you can just name yourselves again. Scott Weaver. Scott. Kathy Simons. Benjamin Lee. Mike Grub again. Scott Weaver. Scott. Kathy Simons. Benjamin Lee.

Mike Grubler. Sean McKnight. Sean McKnight got to Holmes Lake first and thankfully lit a fire. He seems to have the most gear and drove five hours to get here from Hamilton. Scott arrived last and comes from Montreal. And Kathy is as boisterous and chatty as Ben is quiet and smiles. Through their manner and easy kindnesses with each other, it's plain to see they've worked closely together before, and that that work has been, I suspect, emotionally draining. It's kind of hard to find volunteers to go out and do this sort of thing.

Mike's been at it for, what, eight years now? I've been at it for 10, 11. Ben and Kathy have been around for years, and these are a core crew that have basically showed up again and again and again. We'll have people try it once or twice. Yeah, we never see them again. I can't blame them. We've been diving together probably for the last seven years or so.

So it was fun to start working with Kim and her group. And so every summer we go out twice in the St. Lawrence and help them train their dogs on the water. Mike gathers everyone around the tailgate of his black pickup. The probability of us finding him are pretty remote. It's been 43 years so how do we define success for ourselves and the best way that we can do that is say okay you know the five of us stand in front of Kim hand on heart and say we did a good job doing this so that if we're not found well then then

she can take whatever steps that she needs to do to maybe search again or. If there are remains, we really don't know what shape they'll be in. I talked to a pathologist friend, so the suggestion was, yeah, there are probably no soft tissue, but you never know.

So if we do find clothing or shoes, be careful not disturb it too much because it might actually contain small bone fragments or anything. Most likely thing to find or to recognize would be skull or five inches. Long bones, something on the order of 20 centimeters. Pelvis, I guess. Pelvis, actually, the pathologist said pelvis. We probably won't find anything recognizable because the pelvis is actually five separate bones. They actually aren't fully fused till young adult stage.

So unless you really know your human anatomy, they might be individual pieces. And Kim Cooper arrives with her dogs. Morning. But they'll be staying in the truck. So the dogs are in the car. Yeah, they'd go crazy watching divers work. They'd do nothing but a pain in the butt. Yeah. They'd go crazy, meaning they'd jump in the water and stir up silt from the bottom.

As the crew begins to hump their hundred-pound scuba tanks, dry suits, rope, iron hackles, and other equipment through the rocky forest toward the datum point, the place where the four cadaver dogs made their indications. I slipped the canoe in the water at the south end of the lake. It's my first and last bit of calm aloneness on this day and I paddle northward slower than I really should. As I pull it up on the shore, near the rock where the dogs stood, the place where the dive will start, my mind turns to what I've just been paddling over. Could Adrian be there? I'm on the phone to David. Come on in for a minute.

Somehow, despite its remoteness, Holmes Lake has great cell phone reception. Hello? David. Yeah. Murray just left. Oh, okay. Okay, great. Okay.

Okay, I think Chantel and Greg are... They wanted their dad to go with them, and he said, no, because when we're done, maybe I'll fish a little bit. So he wanted the truck so he could come whenever. Yeah, okay. Well, that's good. Thanks for calling, and I'll see him here in about an hour. So he wanted the truck so he could come whenever. Yeah, okay. Well, that's good. Thanks for calling, and I'll see him here in about an hour. And I think Chantel and Greg are coming up the road right now, maybe.

Okay, great. So I'll let you know as the day progresses how things are going, if you want. Okay. I said to Murray, make sure if they find anything, let me know. On my way back through the woods to pick up more gear, I meet Chantelle McNaughton and her brother Greg, both bundled up for the cold. When did you get here? Not that long ago. Not that long ago.

Not that long ago. So what are your expectations, Greg? I don't really have any, honestly. That would have been my answer. I'm just curious more than anything. Whatever happens one way or the other. I was up here with you folks the first day, the Friday. Yeah.

So we missed this spot of the lake? Yeah, we didn't come here. We didn't come with the dogs to this spot. Careful. Yeah, we kind of veered off right there, I think. Possibly because of that stream. I remember we didn't go under this log. I think we went in there.

I think we went right through there instead of coming this way. Then I see an older man with a cane through the trees in the distance. He's hobbling near the shoreline, staring out, mouth open and big glasses. It's Pat Patterson, the original Ontario Provincial Police dive master, who says he searched this lake two or three times over a two-week period in the wake of Adrian's disappearance more than 40

years ago. Hey Mr. Patterson. Good day Dave. How are you? Good. Glad you could make it so that's the site where that's the place where we're gonna start our dive from over there and Be great. Can you get over there? Well, I think so. Yeah. Yeah Thanks so much for coming. We've got two family members over there now. Oh, yeah, you know Chantal. Yeah. Yeah, it's nice for me So they're just setting up a line with the canoe right now You remember the lake? Pretty well. You know, it's been 40 years since I've been in here. And you can remember every nook and cranny, I guess.

Well, I used to think the road coming in was real short and so. I leave Pat, Chantelle, and Greg at the dive site and head in the other direction, working my way back to where the remainder of my equipment is. I spy Murray McNaughton just getting out of his battered truck, arriving alone. He's bundled up like a hunter with an ear flap hat, and his vehicle doesn't look any emptier since last time I saw it.

How are you? Good. What's happening? Well, they're just starting to move the dive equipment in and up to the point where the dogs were. It's a bit cool up here. Daddy made it yet? There he is right there. And then yet another person we've met before strides toward us as if on cue.

Donnie Ring. It's the first time these two have seen each other in over two years. If you came a little sooner, you could have came with me. Eh? You could have came in with me. How have you been, Daddy? Not too bad, not too good, but still alive. Yeah, you look good.

Yeah, I went up to the fair end of the lake and set a trap there for a minute. Well, now that I got you both right here, can you guys come over to this fireplace here? I just want to, this is the site here, right? A few short steps away, the site where Adrian was last seen. Has this ever changed anywhere? Yeah. Remember when we came in here, you couldn't get through here. You had to turn sideways to get through with little branches and trees.

So at the time, it was a lot more overbuilt here. Oh, God. Coming in that trail there, you had to know where the trail was Yeah. So at the time it was a lot more overbuilt here. A lot more trees and stuff. Coming in that trail there, you had to know where the trail was or you wouldn't be able to get in. Yeah. I heard Murray telling the young lad to go up and sit down and he was going to get them untangled. And then I went from there.

If you look through, you can see two trees going up and then they fork out. Yeah, that's like about another 50 feet away. Yeah, but it was really hard to get to. I wouldn't let the kids come with me because it was really dirty trail to get over there. But I went over there and I was fishing there and I caught a trout right there that day. Just shortly after I got over there, I heard Murray shouting to Lee, asking if the young lad was in the care. So you weren't that far away then? I mean, you were just right there then. Yeah, I was 50 feet away then. Yeah, 50 feet, yeah, maybe.

So this is the spot here. Murray was here with me and he told me what happened here, but you told me your story at your house and I kind of had a picture in my head of what happened. Because you said that you went fishing, you took some of the kids in another direction. Ever since Donnie told me his story of that fateful day, on his back porch with those chickadees chirping, and especially since the four cadaver dogs

found a scent further up the lake, I have long wanted to hear the answer to this question, to see if it fit with the narrative I've been arranging in my head about the day Adrian disappeared. You can see the rock way down at the fair end? Well that's where the kids and I were. And then we all came all the way back up here. I don't remember that at all. You don't remember them coming down there with me? Yeah. Yeah, they all came all the way back up here. I don't remember that at all. You don't remember them coming down there with me?

Yeah. Yeah, they all came down there with me. I don't remember a shot. You realize that the rock you're pointing to is where we're diving from. Yeah. Yeah. That rock. It's the same place Donnie took Adrian and his siblings shortly before Adrian disappeared. That rock is the same place the dogs alerted to ascent out on the water, the same water we are searching today.

Murray has always suggested his feeling that Adrian went to the left when he disappeared in the direction of that rock. Would Adrian have gone back to the same place he had just been with Donnie? The very place now buzzing with activity in preparation for a dive? Before this all happened though, you were over at this rocky point right over there where the

divers are standing. Yeah, you go up on top there and then you... That's where I was with the kids. Well, actually, we were down lower because it's pretty hard to fish off the top of that rock. Murray, do you think you can make it to where those divers are over there? Oh, yeah. It'll take me a while. We'll just shuffle along. We'll get there. It's all but sure. Hey?

It's all but sure. Together, we walk slowly over to the rough path toward the dive site. I feel like Murray and Danny must have both been changed by that day, back in June 1972. So you guys both experienced this horrible tragedy you guys went through together. Yeah. Did you keep in touch after that, you two, or?

Oh yeah, we were quite a piece apart, that's all. Yeah. I guess it was a couple years after maybe, before I started coming back. And you said you wore out a pair of cowboy boots on the search, right? You were here every day for the search, right? Yeah. Brand new cowboy boots. Big blisters on my heels. But I kept going and what could you do, eh? Don't give up. Ahead through the woods at the dive site, the crew is busy preparing for what will be a very full day.

We have a line that goes out onto a buoy so the diver can go in, follow the line down until he reaches the anchor. And the anchor, you'll have to place it on the, just put it on that gold line. And then do your search. We'll throw it open to the floor. Any suggestions?

Back on the trail, I'm almost at the dive site with Donnie and Murray. See, it's so easy to walk through here now compared to what it used to be. And when you took the kids up here, it was a little rougher. Oh, God, yes. Like, where we're standing now, you probably wouldn't be able to see the rocks over there where we just came from. Right. Or you wouldn't be able to see that at all. I'm sure you wouldn't. How long were you fishing, would you say, over here with the kids? Maybe a half an hour maximum. We fished for a while and no luck. So we thought we'd go back and bother Murray.

Oh, you gotta go around over here under this tree now. Yeah, so you used to be able to go through here, Dave. Watch your heads here, you're gonna bonk your head. Yeah, so you show me the place where you fished with him. Now one of the kids would have been right down there on that rock at that cedar tree. One of them would have been here right at this rock. Donnie points to the exact spot where the four dogs indicated, a spot he has not been privy to. Goosebumps rise on my arms. Is there more than a coincidence here? As the divers prepare getting their dry suits on for their first entry,

I leave Donnie and Murray with Chantel and Greg and see Kim Cooper sitting alone on the high ground, leaning against a log, reading a book. So Donnie Ring was here on the day, and he just told me that this is this place where he brought them fishing. He pointed to this spot and said, right where those divers are. Deep down I don't think we'll find anything today. But I don't, I think that's a technical issue.

I don't think that's a question of there being something here or not. What there is to be found is going to be small or impossible to discern or maybe under the silt. Four dogs with no foreknowledge of what they're walking into, the more we've talked and gone back and forth over what the dog's behavior is, the more the dog handlers are of one mind to say there really isn't a good explanation but that there is an odor here of human decomp. It sounds more possible coming from you now than then, because I think you wanted to be careful then.

Yeah, you always want to be careful and not raise hopes or expectations. You know, amongst ourselves, we might have one conversation, and with outsiders in that conversation, we'd say completely different things. The last thing you want is to raise hopes for a family, honor women, a prayer. It's just painful for a family. And then the meeting of the former dive master with the new dive master, Pat Patterson and Mike Grebler. Are you Mike? I am Mike.

Oh, okay. Nice to meet you. Good morning. I didn't know what it was going to be. With the ice just going out, is it a little clear, fairly clear? That's what we were hoping. Oh, yeah. So that's why I came up here Thursday afternoon, to see if there was any ice left. And once I saw the ice was gone, I went, okay.

40 years, I was just saying to my son there, I said, you know, this was only half the size of this tree 40 years ago. How things change. We're only searching as far out as that orange buoy. But basically from here, that way. Yeah, yeah. In mind, we come across a lot of, every so often you see a dead trout on bottom, eh? And the forestry at the time, they had about 10 men with us. And they were very interested.

And they asked us to watch. And that was in June that year. And they said, is there much for weeds around? And we said, no, very little. So they said, that's probably what's happened to our fish. There's not enough vegetation. Now it may have changed through the years. After 40 years it might hit vegetation. We'll get Sean

and company in the water here and he'll come back and tell us. As Mike prepares his divers, I notice that Greg has quietly assumed the role of fire tender and Chantel is helping him, walking to the forest edge and back to the flames with armloads of wood and keeping it stoked, settling into a useful distraction for them and an important source of warmth for everyone else. Scott's almost ready for the water and Sean will follow him shortly. So what's the strategy Mike? Well we deployed a white perimeter line from one side of the lake to the other.

And that's secured and that's now sunk to the bottom. And then we gave him a line here, which is attached to an anchor that goes up through that buoy there. There's five of us who are, you know, ready to dive. So we'll just do this two at a time, just to get things started. And we'll see what we two at a time just to get things started and we'll see what we're gonna get into first. What this approach is, it's painfully slow but it's deliberate and it helps us ensure that we see at least every section of bottom

at least once. Most of it we'll see twice. Diver Scott enters the water and once Sean joins him all you can hear on the site is the crackling of the fire Turn off hesitation Turn off doubt Turn off fears The YMCA helps you turn off

whatever's holding you back so you can let your potential shine Through our wide range of programs and services, you can turn on confidence, turn on connections, turn on possibilities. Visit our website to see what you can achieve at the YMCA. This will be the day. Oh, that coffee smells good. Can you pass me the sugar when you're finished? Whoa, whoa, whoa.

What are you doing? That's salt, not sugar. Let's get you another coffee. Feeling distracted? You're not alone. Many Canadians are finding it hard to focus with mortgage payments on their minds. If you're struggling with your payments, speak to your bank. The earlier they understand your situation, the more options and relief measures could be available to you.

Learn more at Canada.ca slash ItPaysToKnow. A message from the Government of Canada. So he's getting into position now to... He's going to come in. What does that mean? 38 degrees Fahrenheit, water temperature. That's about 3 degrees Celsius. But the big black dry suits that make them look like members of an elite military squad

can allow them to stay in the water for hours. Bottom composition is very silty. I couldn't even find a line going across the shore. Holy shit. It's probably in a foot and a half of muck. Okay. the shore holy it's probably in a foot and a half of muck okay so i'm not sure the visit the shore seems better almost do a surface search almost gonna have to be a line to follow i can't even see compass down below yeah

all right well we can we can do the we can do the tether walk along the shoreline. We can try that. Almost immediately, the first signs that the day may not roll out as smoothly as plan A had hoped. I can try and feel for stuff, but you're putting your whole forearm down into a bucket. Scotty, you want to bring Sean in? We'll come up with a sort of plan B. What was your visibility? Visibility was inches. Bottom of the lake, it's almost a gelatin mass of decomposing leaves and that.

So you just touch it and it just poofs up like a cloud. Chantal and Greg are watching it all quietly from their firekeeper vantage point. I think the plan is to do at least this quadrant of the lake even, like all the way across. So I don't know how they're gonna do it with the muck. I think once they get into a rhythm, they'll be okay. It's just they gotta figure out exactly what their system is. Yeah.

Yeah, that's wrong we gotta we have a fair amount of debris is if we go under a log you won't see it no you'll have no idea until you're stuck in it we need a better plan i'm thinking thinking a jaunt line between two divers. Seems to have a lot of drop-offs, just even right here. The woman who's doing the onshore walking, she suddenly was like underwater, just right off the shore here. And they had to kind of detour around the spot because of the logs. Really tough bottom. All right, that's what you're doing. All right, I got you now.

There's a couple things, and it's just a, you can do like the pendulum thing, and just, I stand here and do an arc. It gets caught up in logs. Actually, I've got a better idea. We'll use one of your cleats. Put one out that way, one out this way, and let's just criss-cross back and forth between the two lines. Having two dyers close together with this visibility, it's causing more trouble.

I'm paying more attention to being close to him than I am searching. Let's use this way to do it because we need to do touch diving. I don't want a line in my hand. It's crippling. Okay, so now you're just breaking it up into smaller sections. It takes a while for a solution to come, leaving a short day ahead to get a gigantic area examined. But once the divers decide, the search begins again in earnest, down to the bottom with only bubbles showing their path, then surfacing when they hit the ropes set along each side of the search area. The might be the spots you most want to search. Giving the okay sign to the onshore spotter and descending again into the murk.

And they're off. And they're off, 12 to 20. Now it seems like the search is underway. That's not bad, right here. 8.30. When we got into the water it was 8.30. When we got into the water it was 11.30. 50 minutes to figure out different tactics.

Yeah, now they're searching. I think the search is underway now. They're actually going slow, they're going back and forth. Now they figured it out now. Yeah, they figured it out. See what they think anything they'll find out when they come in i'll ask those guys they're going to switch up did donnie go is donnie gone he went to check his mineral trap so just saying i should be fishing over there while i'm waiting

not going to find out in any way so I'll be fishing. Suddenly, Sean splashes up to the surface in a boil of water and air. He's gasping and having trouble breathing. Mike and the others rush to the shoreline to help him in. All right, I see what you're doing. All right, I got you now. There you go. Oh, thank you.

Do you understand what happened there? I'm standing next to Pat Patterson. Was he free-flowing, whether it was a valve or stuck or something? I don't know. They were swimming under logs under there, didn't even know it. Sean's valve had frozen open in the cold water, and he'd shot up from a depth of 25 feet. Lucky for him, there weren't any obstructions above him,

or he could have been hung up without air. A very dangerous situation. But the divers are trained for this, and the site is soon calm and quiet once again, as everyone waits and watches the divers' bubbly trails. Then, an interesting land-based development. My name is Hilary Johnstone, and I'm a video journalist with CBC in Ottawa on the local side. A CBC reporter arrives from Ottawa with a story about two women she met down at the highway. She says they were following her CBC van.

So as soon as I pulled in off the highway, a big pickup truck came in behind me and two females got out. One had blonde hair and the other one had sort of, you know, darker hair. And as soon as I got out of the vehicle and I asked them if they were family members and they said no, but they knew why we were here. And they said that they were mediums, at least the one did, the blonde woman did, and that she's always had theories over the years about what happened here and that there was an area in particular about halfway between where we parked and here where she felt we should check. It's an area that's a bunch of rocks, and it's covered in ferns.

And she says over the years she's had visions about this area with the ferns. She talked about coming here one time and as she walked away she smelled roses all of a sudden. All kinds of different things. She said she'd even brought a recorder one time up here and there was a male voice that told her to look near the ferns. I'm certain that the area these women are talking about was covered by the cadaver dogs

and we have the GPS mapping of our trek online. I'm certain that the area these women are talking about was covered by the cadaver dogs, and we have the GPS mapping of our trek online. Sean and Scott are just emerging from the water. Sean's having trouble with his sinuses. So what did you see in there? A whole lot of not much. Cans, sardine cans, logs, fishing line. The visibility is pretty terrible.

You get down to about an inch away from the bottom, and then you get a reasonable amount. I could see about a foot or two in either direction. Then, of course, there are spots where it's two inches. Literally, the visibility in the best of circumstances seems to be pretty poor. As soon as you stir up the bottom sediment, I can almost describe it as jello. You blow on it and you see the floor kind of go up and down and you just move it up and all of a sudden the visibility goes down to zero. I think anywhere past a certain point, I don't think you'll find anything because anything would have settled below that muck.

I think the best chance of dune searching is probably within the first 15 feet of the shoreline, looking under the logs, rocks. Mike Grebler gets in to do just that, combing the shore carefully, around the tree that Zaffa the dog climbed out on. I'm running into a lot of that, the jello muck that they described earlier.

I can literally stick my hand down past my shoulder and still not touch bottom. I'm into the silt. And there's not a solid bottom there. And it's all crisscrossed with branches. So I've got to make sure I don't get my arm caught in there. I literally, I can't even see my light anymore. Trees crisscrossed underwater like pickup sticks.

Gooey, deep, endless bottom. I wonder, was the lake like this back in 1972? Pat Patterson said he searched the bottom about three feet off. He's leaning heavily on his cane by the fire. When you were in here did you see logs like this? Pretty well. It wouldn't be the same ones but there was some rip rap like that along the shore in places. And would you go like right under the log with your hand kind of thing? Oh how would it, when you? Oh, in and around them as best we could.

Oh yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. Back near the tree in the water, a finding. Mike Grebler pulls something from under a log. What is it? It's an adult size sock, rotting and greenish. And it's unlikely to be Adrian's because it's an adult size sock rotting and greenish and it's unlikely to be adrian's because it's so intact but i take it anyway well what do you think of the sock i was totally impressed the diver found it they had it lying on a on a tree trunk on shore and i couldn't even see it

until someone pointed right at it and i mean it just right in. It's large, too large to be Adriens, and probably wouldn't have survived in the water anyway for 44 years. It wouldn't have served as a source of scent for the dogs? No, no. Yeah. Through it all, Murray and Donnie sit on a log and talk fishing. Are they seeing any fish in there? I think it's their way of coping.

Yeah. But then they seem to quit for a while before they get one up. Yeah. Let me know when they start fishing again, or biting. Mike gets out of the water. It's good. Now what? Well, we should have a chat together like us and Kim

and say, what do you want to do? I'm pretty comfy with like the first 20 or 30 feet out as far down as we did i mean it was searched for sure the i would say for sure the 20 feet i would say i was just going to say the caveat on that first 20 feet is uh i think we all saw there there are spots in there where there are overhangs and small nooks and crannies that go further back than you can reach with an arm. I think Scott even found one that looked like it may have gone in a couple of meters. Right around the datum rock, where the dog's alerted, there are some, I think there's some potentially fairly deep cracks and crevices. And if any of them are then filled with mud or the accumulated vegetation mush, it becomes very difficult to check whether there's anything in there.

Definitely interesting that there's some possible holes there, because the problem we've had with the dog's behavior right from the get-go was the science. If he's there, he should have floated. but if there's a possibility of getting into one of these cracks and crevices that could address the science side completely we did get into a couple of those i mean like right in underneath i reached in as far as i could but uh he would like to get dragged underneath there would be a bit of an oddity. Yes. And then, of course, it's like Ben says, as soon as you reach in, there's just an avalanche of stuff coming out. Right.

And there's places where the trees crisscross, and I'm sticking my arm down as far as my shoulder, and I can't reach bottom. Yeah, it's an impossible search area. Well, we were just debating what the next course of action might be in this spot. So the conditions down there, as we understand it, are pretty awful in terms of probability of finding anything at all. You know, could the dogs work the area again? Sure, we could work the shoreline again a day or two days after the divers have left the area. We could put the dogs on a boat out there and work them out there.

But if the conditions for diving don't change, they're still going to be just as terrible. And the odds of a success are going to be just as low. If Adrian fell in here, off these rocks, he could have gotten into big trouble very quickly. The crags and overhangs create structures underwater that could catch and hold him, to say nothing of the lattice of tree fall. The science is that a body would float, but not if it was fully caught up. And perhaps because of Adrian's smaller stature, any gases generated may not have been strong enough to lift him away from whatever may have been keeping him down. I can just hop in with that then.

I can then take off myself too. Yeah. Murray and Chantelle are leaving. I follow them slowly amble through the woods and then watch them head toward Murray's truck, bantering back and forth, still lighthearted in each other's presence. And I feel a lump suddenly appear in my throat, and I'm glad that they have each other on this day.

What are your final thoughts on Murray today? What are you thinking today? I never find anything in there. Give them credit for trying, but it takes you a couple of weeks to cover that lake. Do it thoroughly and then you miss a lot of spots. And that's accumulated in 42 years too, probably, could be covered up any. I guess it's when you find out one or the other, whether he's alive or he's not. If he's alive, did he have a good, happy, healthy life? And if he's not

alive, was it just an accident and it was quick and it just happened? Or was there something else? You know, so that's all the questions, right, that come with even finding out. Either outcome still creates more questions. Then Donnie Ring comes to say goodbye. Well, if you don't mind, if you find anything or that... I'll give you a call. I'd appreciate that. You never know, eh, how it's going to turn out. Could be in here and you don't even know it. Oh, that's true. Like, there's been a lot of stuff done, a lot of people in here.

And like I said, I've seen different divers in here, people that do snorkeling and a couple of divers with the tanks and that. They never found anything, but they weren't really organized. And then something occurs to me. A final question. Did you come back here to look? Did you come back to this spot and look, or did you just look everywhere? No, I didn't have to come back here because I knew he wasn't here.

Donnie explains later that he'd always thought Adrian had gone the other way toward the car. He shouted in the direction of the datum point but never personally went to look there the night of the disappearance. If this site, the place where Adrian came to fish before he went missing and now our dive site, had been searched that evening in June 1972, would it have made any difference? On one hand, it's profoundly disappointing that this dive was unable to find anything other than the sock.

But on the other, we learned about the lake, its topography, and more about a possible narrative that explains Adrian's disappearance. And it doesn't mean that human remains are not here. In fact, both Mike Grebler and Kim Cooper believe there is someone here. And whether that someone is Adrian or not will remain unknown at least until the next possible phase of investigation. I'm going to talk to the Ontario Provincial Police to see what they think that phase could be. And I'm going to tie up some of the loose ends we've introduced so far. It isn't over yet.

Hi, SKS listeners. Our season finale will be a few days late, as we're still gathering interviews, following leads, and trying to wrap up loose ends. It'll be released on Thursday, May 12th. Thanks for bearing with us. Thank you to the CBC Reference Library for their help with research. Visit cbc.ca slash sks and click on this week's episode to see a video of the dive and a report from the divers. Someone Knows Something is hosted, written, and produced by David Ridgen.

The show is also produced by Ashley Walters, Sandra Bartlett, and executive producer Arif Noorani. The music is by Bob Wiseman, vocals by Mary Margaret O'Hara, and Jess Reimer. I will never stop my love I will never sleep Something here is precious

A memory I keep I will never stop my love I will never sleep All I want's an answer for this mystery I leave Maybe one day we will all look out on the sun And know a light that shines the truth on our lives Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, Thank you. Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.