Someone Knows Something - S1 Episode 3: The theories

Episode Date: March 14, 2016

SKS host David Ridgen speaks with those involved in the initial search for Adrien McNaughton, and weighs every available theory about the cause of his disappearance — from abduction to bear attack. For transcripts of this series, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/season1/someone-knows-something-season-1-adrien-mcnaughton-transcripts-listen-1.3846202

We Built This City is a collection of stories from Mississauga, capturing the rich history, culture, sports, music, and incredible individuals who have shaped Mississauga into the vibrant city it is today. This brand new series, created by Visit Mississauga, celebrates a city 50 years in the making, paying homage to Ontario's vibrant, diverse, and dynamic third largest city. Tune in to Visit Mississauga's brand new podcast, We Built This City, This is a CBC Podcast. In 1972, five-year-old Adrian McNaughton vanished while on a fishing trip in eastern Ontario. Documentarian David Ridgen goes back to the small town he grew up in, searching for answers. All the physical things five-year-old Adrian McNaughton left behind on this earth before

he mysteriously disappeared on a fishing trip are in a small dusty satchel next to my scanner. Sorry, you were going to go have lunch and I started going through these. Oh look! The only existing picture of Adrian I could find was also in the satchel. It's stuck to the envelope. But Chantelle, his sister, mistakenly ripped it apart as she was opening one of the envelopes that had been sent shortly after he went missing. It was from a collective of psychics,

people who claim that their supposedly extrasensory perceptions can lead to solutions in crimes. She'd wanted to read me the letter. Some of the envelopes Sealant had stuck to the front of the photo. And now Adrian's picture is obscured by an applique of pen and ancient paper fiber. Something you might see hanging in a gallery, an art piece, of a tiny picture of a tiny person lost in a giant frame. and tucked hidden among the countless yellowed newspaper articles that show Adrian's disappearance etched deep across the very undigital news cycle of the time. The satchel has two other things in it that he physically touched.

Inside a clear plastic bag clinging with dust are strips of a now off-white t-shirt that he once wore. The McNaughtons had been stapling the little pieces to letters in outside hopes that any essence of Adrian might spur others to somehow locate him or conjure him. I have the urge to smell the strips of t-shirt and I do, but I get only dust. Who knows if they'll come in handy later. And the final thing is a preschool folder with drawings and line studies made in crayon by Adrian's own hand. You look for clues in things, everything, even this. A penguin, a house with giant people, an early version of a Pac-Man guy with rounded teeth,

something of a self-portrait, even a bear. But it's the simple bird one that I'm drawn to, you know, the shallow M, the one we all draw in our skies at that age and probably any age. I think these ones, I think they're either black crows or ravens. There's something else that's remarkable that there are so many hunt camps. Let's see the hunt camps on there. I'm sitting with my mom and dad in the house I grew up in. I think this place was built in 1917, red brick with plain window frames and creaky maple strip floors on one of our Empire's small town streets. I want to go back up to Holmes Lake and look around and dad's pulled out all his old topographic maps of the area.

There's a green dot on the legend of the map signifying it's a hunt camp and there are several in the vicinity. Mom knew Adrian's mother Barb McNaughton well. Both were nurses at the Arne Pryor Hospital. My mom was an RN and Barb was a nursing assistant. Well, not being living here when it happened, I don't have any idea of how the search went or who was asked to go out, but I know that any of the people that worked with her at the hospital or knew her would have been involved in the whole town, I guess, wise.

I don't know. But our oldest son's here. involved in the whole town, I guess, wise, I don't know. There are certainly other people that were probably set up there for camping or hunting. They're not that far away. Within a kilometer, easily, of the lake. Dad's 87 now and has keen interest in genealogy, maps, archives. In fact, he works at the archives in Armprior. His topo map of the Kalabogi area is ripped at the folds,

and at some point in the early 70s, he efficiently circled some of the lakes in pink highlighter, and one of them is Holmes Lake, where I had just gone earlier in the day with Adrian's father, Murray McNaughton. So, I mean, with hunt camps close by, someone that went to those camps and stayed at those camps could have been at one of the lakes. Right it may not have been that isolated in terms of people.

Yeah I mean he... Mr. McNaughton... I remember fishing with my dad in the Calabogie area near where Adrian McNaughton disappeared literally with a stick and string some worms and hooks and a lot of sunfish being caught and released I just noticed on the topographic maps here that the secondary road snakes all over the place leads right into the Holmes Lake. Right from here over to there, you can see this. It winds terrifically. It's quite long.

While Dad's fetishizing his pile of maps, I poke through some of the old newspapers in the satchel that are left to scan. One about Butch and Sabre, the German shepherd tracking dogs that never really got a scent because of rain or over-trampled paths or amateur dogs. Another about a reward fund announced in the House of Commons for Adrian. How the 8th Canadian Hussars regiment from Petawawa was called in to do the search and how 9,000 people were eventually

involved in combing the woods for two weeks. How Adrian was 36 inches tall, 35 to 40 pounds, had a scar over his left eye, wore a dark blue quilted nylon jacket. I wonder how long nylon lasts in the UV and the Canadian winters before it breaks down. He also wore yellow, blue and red striped pullover and black running shoes with white soles. Rubber soles, rubber soles probably. Anyway, I've already gone through all these articles, but then, like in a movie, I notice one folded in half and squished into the bottom of the case, and I pull it out. It's from a Renfrew newspaper dated June 14th, just two days after Adrian disappeared. One that I haven't read. 30 search thick bush for five-year-old boy and right away I see the two sentences that mention yet another fisherman, a fellow named John Jervis who had allegedly heard Adrian calling out

that night, the night he went missing. Jervis was fishing Brennan Lake, the article said, just a few hundred meters south of Holmes Lake and if he heard Adrian that night we'd know the direction and speed he was traveling. Again, strangely, not reported anywhere else, but neither was Danny Ring, and he was actually there when Adrian disappeared. Is it possible that this John Jervis' information was missed? And if he heard Adrian that night calling out, why didn't he respond to him? I look through phone books and online, but no John Jervis turns up in Kalabogie or the entire area in fact.

John Jervis. So I set him aside for later. After going there with the McNaughton family I decided to return with my dad to Holmes Lake to examine the place more closely. I feel there's got to be something here. We decide to walk in. So just walking in along the trail to Holmes Lake with my dad. Going in on the shorter end of the road. Oh yes, there's no way the car would have made it up here. Pretty rugged in here. When we arrive at the turnoff for Holmes Lake, we see another road leading to Centre Lake, beside it to the south.

People I had spoken to had said that back in 1972, there was a well-cut trail into Centre Lake at the time, and this road must be the widening of that trail. Maybe owned by people who use it for hunting. It's not only very bushy, lots of bush, but it's just lots of hills and lots of... But as the father said, as Mr. McNaughton said, if he got to the road, he would have stayed on the road. He wouldn't have continued into the woods or something. He wouldn't think so. And if the black flies were out, he'd be agonizing. Oh yeah, that'd be the beginning of June.

Almost for sure, if Adrian had gone from his fishing spot at Holmes Lake, back up the hill, played in the dirt, and then he chose to enter the woods south of there at almost any point. He would have very soon hit the trail to Center Lake. If he decided to go to the car along the trail Murray, Chantel, and I had walked, he'd also be at the road. And the car, a car that also reportedly had snacks inside, and it would have been a refuge from vorpal clouds of early June blackflies.

Oh yeah, that'd be the beginning of june to be the end of may it'd be the worst blackfly season imaginable here in eastern ontario first time he'd ever been fishing he'd be i think he'd probably be interested in heading to the car maybe then there's the lakes themselves. Holmes Lake, Centre Lake, just a few hundred meters south, and Brennan Lake, another few hundred meters south of that. Could Adrian have fallen into one of them, or any of the other little hold waters or swamps in the area? How are you? Good.

Nice to meet you. I'm going to go borrow my shoes, or should I take them off? No, don't worry. There's a lady coming in the next couple of days to give her a good cleaning. I'm all alone here. Oh, okay. Pat Patterson is the dive master for the massive search that took place after Adrian's disappearance. He was in charge of all the dives in the area. He lives alone, long retired,

and his neat and unassuming house is directly across from an Ontario Provincial Police Station in Renfrew. This is an old scrapbook I started years and years ago. And every time I get a bunch of new stuff, I keep adding to it. On his kitchen table as I walk in are two huge scrapbooks containing clippings and photos from the many crime dives he has led, mostly looking for bodies. June 1972, it was before Derek, but we got a call to go to west of Calabogie. There was a small boy lost, and the dad and I couldn't find him. They were looking for him, so we went out there.

I think it was just about dark when we got there. And we looked and searched and sirens on and everything else, but it was too dark, so we thought we'd continue in the morning. As we talk, I note that on the walls are pictures of some of the many massive totem poles that Pat has carved on commission and for fun. Interesting hobby for a white guy but he obviously takes pride in work well done. I was a district diver. Probably 90 percent of our work was recovering bodies. On that particular type of dive we would start at shore, we

would tie off our rope to a good tree or what have you. We would start across the three of us side by side only covering an area about 30 feet wide we'll say and we just gradually make your way down a hill till you hit the level of the lake bottom you know. We had long ropes, long half-inch ropes. We'd stretch them right across the lake, and that would be our baseline, just much the same way you would see archaeologists doing a room, gridding it out in square grids. So you're covering a fair swath of bottom at the time.

Wasn't that deep, 30 feet deep roughly. Couldn't come up with nothing, didn't see anything. And the visibility was really good, so the bottom wasn't real soft where a person would fall in and sink out of sight. It wasn't that type of bottom. And again, we didn't come up with nothing at all. So then learning that there was two little lakes not too far away, we thought, well, gee, maybe we should look at them so over the next over the next few days we did those lakes very thoroughly too and came up with nothing as far as the diving part so you did all three lakes and you did them a number at least how many times would you say you

searched them the homes is like for sure at least twice the other two and i wouldn't say we went twice to those lakes and you were the only dive team doing this? Yeah, we we looked at quite a few swamps which are in the area too, but we never had any luck there neither. We were there I think close to three weeks and I'll say just about just about every day we got a dive in somewhere and sometimes two or three dives in a day you know. The same day I met Pat the dive master I met Steve Collier. Steve joined the thousands of volunteers who came in buses to look for Adrian and remembers his own version of how well things were undertaken.

Steve's a longtime resident of the nearby Black Donald Lake area. He walks with a serious limp and casts the aura of some kind of western gunslinger. Do you remember the search for that little guy? I was out 24 hours looking. I'd never been up in that bush before, and everybody said I'd get lost. By the time I got there, there was no way to trail the kid. It was just walk to death. It was all tore up.

Anything rough, everybody goes around it. You could hide a car in there. And it was so loud they said build a bonfire and sit around try to listen and see if you can hear the kid crying. The mosquitoes were so loud you couldn't hear the damn fire. I just can't believe anybody turned a kid like that loose in the bush. It was really frustrating. No way to trace that kid. It was just enough to make you weep. Tragic.

Arnold McIntyre, my old English writing teacher, also took part in the search. He, like Pat Patterson, is widowed and lives alone now. He's sitting slumped on a couch in his living room and he casts a lonely aura. He once introduced the phrase stony lonesome in class and promised us that one day he'd use it in a story and I'd like to borrow it now. The first I heard of it was at morning news on a school day that this child was missing and two other teachers now I guess went up to the site. The military was there and so we caught a ride in an army truck with the tarp over the top and went

into the bush. It was evening you know in June of course there are long evenings. So we went away back in somewhere and I had no idea where we were. And I was quite impressed by the military. They were disciplined and serious about this. Maybe 20 people were there at that time. We were strung out in a line about arm's length from each other, moving broadside through the bush. And a soldier at each end of the line with a roll of tape and one had a compass anyway and they we walked through the bush that way searching at her

feet you know we lifted every rose bush we we looked up every tree, we looked at everything. And it was wet in the bush, we were soaking wet. And after dark, maybe, that must have been near 10 o'clock at night, we were down in the swamp somewhere and the soldier with the compass had his lighter out trying to read his compass and that, but anyway that's how it was done. And we got back to the campsite, but that time it was late at night and we got a ride back out to the highway and got in our cars and so I came home and thinking, this is hopeless. It was just wild, rough country. But then I went outside and listened to the winds

and the trees and I thought, oh God, I have to go back. I wanted to know, you know, and what, I wanted to know the timeline. I wanted to know what happened there, which I said, kind of bedeviled me ever since. The timelines presented by Murray McNaughton, Danny Ring and Lee McNaughton when combined emerged with the following picture. We went one late afternoon, evening. Another lad and I and three or four

of our family went up to Holmes Lake to fish speckled trout. We went up that evening and as I remember, everything was going good. And Adrian was fishing for a while, and he said he didn't want to fish anymore, so we went back playing in the leaves behind us. He just got bored.

From the time Adrian stopped fishing, went up the hill, played in the dirt, and disappeared, to the time the shouting for him started, it would have been, by my estimation, of all interviewed no more than 25 minutes maximum. Calculating how far a five-year-old boy would get in 25 minutes through either thick bush or, at the other extreme, on a path or road, should give an idea of the search area.

And it's not very large. Well, we started calling them. Calling and waiting and listening for an answer, and we never got any answer. So I said, well, maybe we better get some help. People tend to walk in circular patterns, and may walk for a long time but not end up that far from the point they were last seen. And evidence, anecdotal and otherwise, has shown that children do not always follow roads if they come to them.

A study of 12 cases in the U.S. found that the majority of children aged 1 to 6 were finally located at most just over half a mile from the point they were last seen, regardless of the terrain. The search for Adrian was carried out in a vast area around Holmes Lake, and the army and volunteers reportedly gridded an area many times that over their two-week search. Pat Patterson, the dive master I spoke to, searched bodies of water more than 10 kilometers away, he said. We called the man who coordinated much of the search for Adrian at the time, a retired police officer named Larry Kalnan, who is now close to 90.

You know, it's a long ago. I've forgotten pretty well all about it anymore. And I wouldn't help you at all in my, anything I might say. I don't know what to suggest to you, but I can't help you at all in my, anything I might say. I don't know what to suggest to you, but I can't help you. Such a long time ago, who can blame him? And it's best to see this kind of thing as only a dead end. For now. The question of wild animal attack comes up at every turn, and every person I talk to about it has opinions that seem to line up.

If a bear had been on the campsite, you'd think you would have known? I think so. I know that we were there once, and I remember hearing a wolf howl, but never a bear. Everybody's saying, oh, a bear got him, a cougar got him, this, that, and the other thing. We would have heard them screaming or something if a bear had attacked them, or we would have heard the noise a bear would make, you know. Back in 72 in that area, would there be black bears near Mount St. Patrick in that area?

There would be, definitely, yeah. Would they have heard a sound if a bear had attacked? Would they have found any remnants if a bear had... By all means, they would have, yeah. That's why I think somebody's involved in a foul play, because of no trace of clothes, no scent for the dogs, and whatever that kid was taking, as far as I'd be concerned. Adrian was reportedly wearing a nylon jacket and shoes. Nylon would hold together in some fashion for 30 to 40 years before the UV and other natural factors broke it down.

And the rubber from his shoes, 50 to 80 years. So if we're finding anything he wore, it'll likely be the soles of his shoes. I'm going to walk back to the other campsite. You aim that mic toward it and then I'm going to shout. As I come, I'll shout and you can, we'll see how, how you can hear me and I'll time myself walking. I'm doing another shout test with my dad. Could Adrian have heard the shouting and from how far away? We're here in fall, and Adrian disappeared in June with the leaves out. But I think we'll get a good enough measure of how things sounded.

Adrian! Did you hear me at all? Yeah I could hear you right from the start. Really? Really. Wow. Did it sound like it was coming from different directions? No, exactly there. Really? Yeah. So the test shows that if Adrian walked between that lake and this lake, which is two minutes and 20 seconds for me to walk, and I was going slow, he would have heard them shouting. He should have heard. In the direction they were shouting from, if he was in fact here to hear it.

Yeah. And whether or not he would react is the other question, I guess. So then the theories come around to if Adrian or his clothing isn't in the water, isn't in the woods, then he must have made it to a road or someone else made it to him. And I like to think that if he was taken by someone, it was someone who was desperate to love a child. That is what I wanted to say too. That is what I wanted to say too. If it was someone that did that, it was someone that wanted a child so badly. He'd either have been picked up by someone for whatever purpose, sexual or forced adoption, let's say it out loud, or run over by someone who

was afraid to tell anyone about it. The closest theory I ever had, and it's probably unrealistic, I thought maybe he walked off back to the road and got hit by a car and the person who hit him put him in the trunk. The one theory that I think is most plausible to me is he was trotting along the roadway back to the camper or something and another fishing party or something came around the corner and a car ran over him. If this is what happened, an accident that wasn't reported, it would have been exponentially harder as each day went by with the search and pressure mounting for that person to reveal the truth.

What are the odds of each event? What if the search failed and the searchers couldn't find the keys that were in their own pockets? What if Adrian fell and hit his head and slipped under a rock or into a crevice unseen? While I'm all that over, I'll try for that other fisherman, John Jervis, the man who allegedly heard Adrian that night down near Brennannan lake he was supposedly from the calabogi area and his information could be crucial to any real theory or percentage chance of what happened to adrian i asked murray mcnaughton if he knew jervis now there was a fisherman on the lake that day named john jervis from calabogi do you know john no that's how he was on the lake the day named John Jervis from Calabogie. Do you know John? No. He was on the lake the day

we were fishing. As far as I know, there was nobody there. Did he say he was on that lake? He was at the lake at midday. He said he saw you guys. And then I asked Donnie Ring. And what about, there was a person named John Jervis from Calabogie. Johnny, yeah. And John Jervis, supposedly that night, he was fishing Brennan Lake, apparently, and had heard Adrian. I never heard that before. That's in a newspaper. It's in one of the first articles that came out. John Jervis says he heard Adrian on Brennan Lake, but didn't go check it out

because he didn't know he was lost. Do you know John? Johnny? Oh yes, I know Johnny. Is he still alive? Oh yeah. He's in Kalabogie. We Built This City is a collection of stories from Mississauga, capturing the rich history, culture, sports, music, and incredible individuals who have shaped Mississauga, capturing the rich history, culture, sports, music, and incredible individuals who have shaped Mississauga into the vibrant city it is today. This brand-new series, created by Visit Mississauga, celebrates a city 50 years in the making, paying homage to Ontario's vibrant, diverse, and dynamic third-largest city.

Tune in to Visit Mississauga's brand-new podcast, We Built This City, to learn more. Available now on CBZ Listen. Oh, that coffee smells good. Can you pass me the sugar when you're finished? Whoa, whoa, whoa. What are you doing? That's salt, not sugar. Let's get you another coffee. Feeling distracted?

You're not alone. Many Canadians are finding it hard to focus with mortgage payments on their minds. If you're struggling with your payments, speak to your bank. The earlier they understand your situation, the more options and relief measures could be available to you. Learn more at Canada.ca slash ItPaysToKnow. A message from the Government of Canada. As I approach Jervis' house, my internal movie is writing this scene as it happens, and I have this feeling I'm going to get something new.

I need the next act to move forward, but I know that's not going to happen necessarily the way you want it to. Hi. Hey, sir. Mr. Jervis. How are you? So is it Jervin or Jervin? Jervis. OK. Doesn't matter.

People say Jervis. Autovaluant doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. You're both. Yeah, come on in. Great. Thanks for seeing me. Oh, you're welcome.

John is average height, graying, but young looking. And I figure he must have been in his late teens or early 20s in 1972. He's a retired hydro guy, and his house is immaculate. We sit down in a cozy living room and start right away. We were fishing off the rocks. This was 6.37 maybe in the evening type of thing, 7.30 the latest. And we could hear people shouting on the far side of the lake. But we didn't know why the people were shouting at the time. The paper, they said that you heard Adrian. I never heard Adrian, no, no.

No, we just heard people shouting. We never heard Adrian. John Gervais never heard Adrian. We found out the next day that there was somebody missing up there. So that's when all the whole thing started. Immediate heart stoppage. But then John gets the heart thing started. Immediate heart stoppage. But then John gets the heart moving again. While he was fishing at Brennan Lake with his wife

on the night that Adrian went missing, he goes on to tell me that he had been at Holmes Lake earlier that same day, fishing with some other friends. Three of us went to go fishing. I would guess the time would be around 10 o'clock in the morning. And we'd pulled up at the campsite where Holmes' Lake and Centre Lake is. And there was a group of people there, probably four adults and a couple of kids running around. So we talked to them for a few minutes and said we were going down to fish Centre Lake, which we did.

But in the meantime, we noticed there was a car there. If John saw a car there and people, it most certainly was not Murray McNaughton or his family or Donnie Ring. They came to Holmes Lake some hours later after they got off work in the late afternoon. This car that Dervais saw belonged to someone else. Well, we talked about that car. It was a black and white, and I'm sure it was a 56 or 55

Dodge. We talked about it because it was such good shape when we were fishing. And I don't know whose car it was or anything else, but it was parked there. So you would assume, and when you saw the people at Holmes Lake, were they on the lake fishing or were they at the car? They were on the car area, around the camping area. So the car area was where people would camp, is that at that time?

Yes. Because now the campsite is actually at the lake. Could be, yeah. We just walked past them, said hi, or whatever, and went ahead fishing. I don't know, it's very, very strange. That car is still a strange car. It was never seen again.

I had never seen that car around here before, or after. And did the police ever tell you anything about whether they had found the owners of that car? No. Because it's pretty important. The car information has never been reported before. A 1956 black and white Dodge with, Gervais says, two males, two females, and some children around it. In the least, it shows that people who had never been seen before or since in the area were able to find Holmes Lake that day and park there.

At the most, they could have knowledge that might help the investigation. Or perhaps at the outside, beyond the margins, they may have some connection to Adrian's disappearance. I wonder if police ever tracked the car or the people down. I decide to ask Murray if he remembers anything about a different car being on the scene at Holmes Lake that day. Do you ever remember any talk of a black and white car that was seen up at Holmes Lake? No. That was never part of the police discussion with you?

They never asked you about questions? I remember. And you, of course, never saw a black and white car up there or any other car other than yours. I don't think so. No. Back at Holmes Lake with Dad, I'm walking toward what I think could be a hunting blind. I hadn't noticed it when I came with Murray and Chantelle,

but it sits just off the parking area. The 56 Dodge that John Gervais saw would have been parked right on the spot where I'm walking now but until I can talk to the Ontario Provincial Police that piece will have to sit. You can see the lake right there so it's a little enclosure made out of our green tarp and a makeshift metal roof. Looks like a deer stand but it's actually not. It's actually a latrine. Just an outhouse. You want to take a picture of it? Sure. Looking at the ancient outhouse with tarp overlay, I wonder if some version of it was here in 1972. Did Adrian, a slight small boy, fall into it?

Did anyone bother to look? Was the outhouse here at the time, and if not, where was it? These are the kinds of desperate questions that a family who has suddenly lost their child must ask with so many searches and so little evidence. It was a desperation that drove the McNaughtons to look anywhere for help. They turned to faith because of the trauma of the loss of my brother and their son. So because of the event, my parents became seekers. They don't believe in psychics themselves. They're actually

quite against it because of their face and whatnot. But in moments like that, you grasp at any straw you can. From the satchel containing Adrian's drawings, the articles, and the correspondence with the McNaughton family, it's evident that several psychics shared their views on what happened to Adrian. This is typed and it's just impressions from it looks to me like three different psychics. I believe the child wandered off attracted by an animal. He accidentally fell into the water drown. The boy is in very good protective hands in the spirit world.

I'm not a fan of psychics. I think it's bullshit myself. Even I cannot believe I said that aloud to this family. I mean, they're valuable in that they just bring a different perspective on the creative thinking around a case. That's how I think of psychics, and I think that they're important for that. There was one fellow that came in, and he came from way down below Ottawa, and he could take a map and with this little equipment that he used, he could tell you exactly where water was without even going to the place. And he also tried that with Adrian and he said it kept going to Clyde Forks. And whether it's true or not, we don't know.

And there was another lady sent us a letter, which is probably in not, we don't know. And there was another lady who sent us a letter, which is probably in there, I don't know. And she had also mentioned the same thing. It makes you kind of believe that maybe he did go to Clyde Forks. Clyde Forks is a small town several kilometres away from Holmes Lake, one of the more isolated areas in eastern Ontario. I was up to an auction sale at Clyde Forks one time. A friend of mine went up and I asked a lot of people around but nobody seemed to know

nothing about it. Yeah, so Holmes Lake will be on the left up here. If Adrian made it from here at Holmes Lake somehow to Clyde Forks or anywhere else, he'd be 48 years old today. The entrance to Centre Lake looks startlingly similar to Holmes Lake. So he might have gotten confused and thought that people had left and he was alone or something. He's either here in the Holmes Lake area or he's not here. Okay, well that was fruitful. I think we learned a lot on that, just coming to the location.

You can always learn a lot coming to the locations where people, where either the bodies were found or where they disappeared. And to find out if he's here, I wonder if cadaver dogs are the answer. These are dogs trained especially to sniff out the bones of humans. I don't think there's ever been a cadaver dog search of the area. Only a search for a live person. And I wonder about my bullshit remark about the psychics. Do they bring creativity to a case or do they feed off of their own eminence to shine a light on nothing of value?

And if Adrian is still alive, and he's out there, would he recognize the things that he had left behind? The drawings? The birds? The bear? Would he know his name? Would he know his parents? His brother, Lee?

How do you know you're missing when you don't know you need to be found? This is the tree dad where he said he last saw him right here and Adrian was standing right here. Said he didn't want to fish anymore and his dad said he took the rod from him and Adrian walked up this hill here and disappeared. Tremendous drop off right here. Look at that. Tremendous drop off. Right down here. Well you see that's the lake there though dad. You're looking at the water there. Yeah that's it's actually so still that it looks like it looks like a bottomless pit. On the next episode of Someone Knows Something. The whole point is somebody knows something about what happened to him, whether he's dead

or alive. Let's hope we're gearing for he's alive. But somebody knows something, and nobody keeps everything in forever. Miracles happen. You know, man. That's what I'm shooting for with this one. Visit cbc.ca slash sks to see photos and documents related to Adrian McNaughton's disappearance. Subscribe in iTunes or your favorite podcast app

to catch up on previous episodes. If you like the show, tell your friends. Someone Knows Something is hosted, written, and produced by David Ridgen. The show is also produced by Ashley Walters, Sandra Bartlett, Steph Kampf, and executive producer Arif Noorani. The music is by Bob Wiseman, vocals by Mary Margaret O'Hara. I will never stop my love

I will never sleep Something here is precious A memory I keep I will never stop my love I will never sleep All I want's an answer for this mystery I fear Maybe one day we will look out at the sun And know a light that shines to our loved ones I will never stop my love, I will never sleep Something here is precious, a memory I keep

I will never, never stop my love I will never sleep All I want is an answer For this mystery we keep For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.