Someone Knows Something - S2 Episode 11: Blackmail

Episode Date: February 6, 2017

As David tries to track down and speak to Brian Sweeney, Sheryl's ex-husband, evidence begins to pile up that Sheryl may have known her life was in danger. For transcripts of this series, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/season2/someone-knows-something-season-2-sheryl-sheppard-transcript-listen-1.3846237

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The following episode contains graphic language. Listener discretion is advised. You are listening to Season 2 of Someone Knows Something from CBC Radio. Previously on SKS. And have there been ever any other suspects in the case other than

Michael Lavoie? There is not really a named person. No, there's not. It's not to say that his version of events did not happen. I said to her, I said, Richard knew Sammy Peron. She said, yeah. The same Sam Ferreira? Yes, yeah.

That went to jail for murdering two people? Yeah. And did Sheila know Richard at that time? Yeah. I just got goosebumps when I found that out. She told him he didn't have to pick her up, that Brian would be picking her up and bringing her home. Oh, okay.

He said Brian Sweeney would pick her up? Yes. Mike and Cheryl started fooling around, and then Brian and him fought, and I believe they got into a fist of cuffs over it, too. So what kinds of things was being stolen at the time? Money. Always money.

Always money. Was Cheryl ever involved in that? Was she? Oh, yeah. Oh, she was? Oh, yeah. She would keep sex. Uh, you'd be down the road with a radio. You'd be seeing anything, you know. Hey, there's somebody coming. Oh, she was? Oh, yeah. She would keep sex. Uh, you'd be down on the road with a radio. You'd be seeing, you know. Hey, there's somebody coming. Oh, yeah.

This is Episode 11, Blackmail. Oh, I just called my brother. Oh, okay. I told him, I just called my brother. Oh, okay. I told him, I just called him. I fucking did, but I said, well, fuck, I better call him, make sure he's coming. But he just told me, no, get your name and number if you want, because he doesn't remember you or anything. I said, some radio guy's here, wants to talk to you. Yeah, yeah.

He's a cop. My brother goes, yeah, well, I don't know. I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I'm not a cop. I just want to talk to him about, I'm working on a documentary about Cheryl, his ex-wife. Cheryl, my sister-in-law. Yeah. Yeah, I was in the pen when that happened. I wasn't around.

Did you know her? Yeah, I know her. Yeah. That's different. Yeah, I just wanted to know... I was in the pen with Keeper when he died, her ex. The one that went out, that she met Brian through? Brian met her through Keeper.

Can I talk to you about that, then? Did you know Keeper? Yeah, they said they think I killed him. I'm at a modest single-story house beside a busy downtown Hamilton street. Its roof is being redone and the three men doing it are about halfway there. But the Shinglers just left for the day

and I figured this was a good chance. The man who's worried I might be a police officer, the man who people think killed Keeper, according to him, is Jay Sweeney. Jay is pale, almost grey-skinned, and seems to have recently lost some weight. I was there with Mikey Bianco and all them guys upstairs. Oh, yeah. I went to 3A with Wolfie. He speaks quickly and candidly and he has a huge Rottweiler named Diesel.

Whoa! I'm here to see Brian Sweeney, who's Jay's brother and Cheryl Shepard's second husband. Cheryl divorced Brian less than seven months before she got engaged to Michael Lavoie. Brian was known for his break-and-enter activities, but police and his friends generally have had good things to say about him. He was kind-hearted, he and his mother participated in the searches for Cheryl, and he voluntarily took a lie detector test to try to remove any suspicion that he might have had something to do with Cheryl's disappearance. Police say he passed the test.

Brian and Cheryl had an on-and-off relationship that Michael Lavoie reportedly didn't like. Stephen Porter, our body language expert, believes that Lavoie may have been sending a message to someone when he proposed to Cheryl on live TV that night. What he describes as an aggressive, possessive stance, almost a look of revenge, or a quote-unquote, she's mine. He's sending a message to somebody who may be watching, or just to the world in general. If there was a message, was it being sent to Brian? Michael Lavoie's mother, Pat,

has her own thoughts on Brian. When Tracy said to me, Mrs. Lewis was calling her and calling her and calling her about this stuff, right? What do you know about it, Tracy? Tracy said, I don't know anything. I was home with my kids. Well, you and Brian were together that night.

She said, no, we weren't. But Mrs. Lewis kept insisting they were together. Don't forget, tell the police you were together with Brian. So whether she suspected Brian, I don't know. Pat also told me that Michael had told her that Brian was the one who was supposed to pick Cheryl up from Niagara Falls on January 2nd. So for these and other reasons, I really need to talk to him.

Back to Jay and Diesel. I'd let you in, but I don't know if you'll get along with my dog. It's a nice dog. He won't bite you. Is it? He's pushing. Is it? He's intimidating, but he's good.

He won't bite you if I tell him not to. He's not scared. You can come in if you want. You're not the cops, right? No, no, no. I am a radio guy. I'm fine. Yeah, good, good.

I saw my brother going to jail for me if he is in trouble. No, no, no. Wait up, buddy. I want to get back to Keith Keeper Dale, Cheryl's first husband. Keeper was discounted by police as a suspect in Cheryl's disappearance and later died in jail after drinking too much homebrew and tumbling off the range over a low railing. The coroner's inquest found that the death was accidental, but... Yeah, they said they think I killed him.

They think you killed him? I don't know if they do. They called me out three times. The they that Jay is referring to here would be the corrections officers and police investigating Keeper's death. He was like a brother to us, to me and Brian. He was Brian's partner, but he was a good friend of mine, too. He came down to the pen to see me, because I'd already been down there for a few years. You were at Collins Bay?

Yeah. See, I used to teach there. I used to teach at Collins Bay. I was there from 96 till 2002. I would to teach at Collins Bay. I was there from 96 till 2002. I would have been there in 96. I was there. I was at Carpio Tale India. I just got there, so. Do you remember a guy named Duck Lowe?

He was a Vietnamese dude. Yeah, I do remember. Yeah. I spent less than a year teaching at Collins Bay and other federal correctional institutions, but it was a real eye-opener, to say the least. Collins Bay was medium security at the time, with the facade of a Disney-like castle and the grey interior of a modern dungeon.

My connection to the place seems to break the ice with Jay. What, you want to talk or something? I wouldn't mind chatting with you. Do you think your dog's okay? Yeah, he's alright. Ceezo, be nice. Daddy's friend. Be nice.

Be nice. Come on. In the house. Let's friend. Be nice. Come on. In the house. Let's go, Deez. Come on, Deez. Sorry.

Don't worry about it. You know why? I bet you I'm going to lock him up. Oh, okay. Oh, no. Okay. Two years ago. Okay.

You okay? Dog's locked up, buddy. Come on in. Okay, good. Thanks, man. Yeah, yeah. Diesel's locked in a back room, and Jay heads into the kitchen to check on our roast beef he's cooking for dinner. It's a dark but comfortable living room, nondescript but for a brand new towering stereo system.

According to Jay, Brian lives in the basement, so maybe if I stick around long enough, he'll come home. I know that Brian was discounted as a subject. Yeah, the lie detector test helped out with the search. I don't think he did. He still loved her. My brother-in-law, that's my brother-in-law, Mikey LaVoy, that went out with her. It's proposed to her on TV. And I was thinking you little weasel, because Mikey, little Mike, was Brian's partner. They were partners for a while, doing scores or whatever.

They were just partners. Me and my brother, Mikey, and his brother brother Tommy, I went out with their sister, Tracy. She's got my kid. And then my brother went out with her. I had two kids with her. So me and my brother never talked for 10 years. Oh, so Tracy Lavoie. Tracy Lavoie. Jay says he had a child with Michael Lavoie's sister, Tracy. Afterward, Jay's brother, Brian, began a relationship with Tracy, and they had two children together. Jay tries to explain the Lavoie family to me. Little Mike's the youngest. Tommy's the older than Tracy by a year. Me, Tommy, Brian, and Mikey hung out when I was doing stealing cars and shit when we were younger, and they were just kids too. They were like 16, 18 and I was 19 or 20. And this is years ago. I was going out with their sister and their older brother I hung around with and I helped them out, Porky.

Porky, I discover later, is Steve Lavoie, who was sick in bed when I went to visit. Little Mike's the snake, he's the weasel. Those guys were partners. Little Mike and my brother got in a fight. And Brian had a black eye and a bite mark on him. But I guess Brian did okay, my brother. I didn't think he could fight that good, but I guess he can. So Mike and him broke up and Mike started banging or going out with Cheryl, seeing Cheryl. Brian left. He's not the type to hit the girls as far as I know. Then on New Year's Eve I see one of them in jail. He proposed to her. And then three days later she disappeared. So... You're Brian's oldest brother?

Older brother, yeah, two years. How long were you in the pen? 10 years, 12 years. Wow. 13 years, yeah. Can you tell me what for or no? I crushed a guy's head with my hands and feet, dumped him in there. So, when you were in the pen,

you were there when Keeper came? I was there for a few years. Keeper came down and said hi to me. He pled guilty with some of his charges that Brian and him were going in the bucket for. I see. So Keeper pled guilty for two years, come down to see me, ahead of Brian. Brian was looking at time too, I guess. I don't know what happened.

So were you interviewed about Cheryl's disappearance? No, never about Cheryl because I was in the pen. But you knew Cheryl? Yeah, I met her. It was at their wedding. All drunk with my uncle. My uncle was passing out counterfeit money. My brother caught him. at the wedding. Yeah, and I had to smash my uncle for it Yeah, it was crazy. We drank we were nuts like a bunch of fucking hillbillies back then

I feel like you're back. You look like you're kind of back on your feet to me like it doesn't yeah I do. I don't drink no. Yeah. Well, I've been out since 209 so Doing okay. Yeah, it was crazy I made all the shine, never got caught since 96 till 205 when I got out. Just took it easy, but I was careful who I gave it to so people wouldn't get stupid. But keeper fell down the stairs, I guess, and died.

And they thought maybe he was drinking with me. There was an argument. He was in my cell. Someone told him he left my cell, staggering, mouthing off, drunk. And they called me out and said, do you drink? I said, no. Were you drinking with keeper? No. What do you drink? I said, no. Were you drinking with Keeper?

No, what we got story? I don't care. The guy fell, I know that for a fact. Nobody was with him, but, and I was the last one with him. They don't know that, but I was the last one walking towards the stairs saying, you gonna be okay, get to bed.

They're calling a lock up soon. You all right? Yeah. And all of a sudden I felt the whole floor shake and a black guy run upstairs, oh, your buddy just fell. I said, what? Brains everywhere.

It's his own fault. I told him, be careful. He's a big boy. He's 260. He fell over the railing, I heard. Keeper's death was ruled an accident by an Ontario coroner's inquest. So what do you think about Cheryl? What do you know about Cheryl?

She was an ex-dancer, so that's the kind of attitude, you know? Outgoing, I guess. My brother's wife, I didn't want to talk down about her. I could care less. I stayed to myself since me and my brother had our problems. But, I mean, I knew her. I've seen her all the time at mom's house and with Brian. And Brian, innkeeper, brought her to the house a few times.

And your mom was Dorothy, right? Yeah, that's right. And she liked Cheryl, right? Yeah, she always gets along good with all the family. So. Hopefully Brian will want to talk to me because he knew Cheryl. And do you think he'll be interested or?

He's my brother, but he lives here with me for seven years and we've never sat down for five minutes and talked. He's not like that. He does his own thing. He's not a different wavelength than me. I thought it was because I used to drink and stuff, because he don't drink or do drugs. Now I don't drink and he lives with me and stuff because he needed a hand, but now he's working, doing great, going to school. He's doing good now. I got him a good job. He's doing electrical and handyman crap, but I mean, now he's going to school for his ticket, I think, for electric electricity.

He's an electrician. So he lives downstairs now? He's got his own apartment. Yeah. Old basement, kitchen, everything. I just cook for both of us. I got all the food up here. He's just no sense of filling up two fridges with two guys.

One sec. Sorry, man. Yeah, no problem. I'm done. I've never heard any words. When do you think Brian's gonna... I'm gonna go to the bathroom. Sorry, huh? Yeah, no problem. I'm done. I've never heard any words.

When do you think Brian's gonna... He said an hour, hour and a half, but I can call him right now and see if he's gonna be much longer or what. I'll just tell him you're hanging out so long, you know what I mean. I'll find out right now. Brother. Brother. You still working? I'm gonna finish it.

Oh, buddy's here still. He's talking to me. It's about Cheryl. He's just going to ask if he can talk to you about some questions. Some interview radio guy or something. But I just told him what I know. I don't know much. What? No, he just wanted to see if he could answer some questions to him for his show or whatever. But I don't know what his trip is.

What's this for? I'll let you say hi quick. I'll let you say hi quick. Hold it. Quick, I cut him off. Hey, Brian? Hey, how are you? It's David here. I work for CBC Radio and I'm just working on a documentary about Cheryl

and I thought since you knew her that this is a good place to start. So I'm just sitting here hanging out so I can wait for you if you like. Is that okay okay i'll see you here then thanks okay bye he says he'll he says he's gonna chat he says he'll chat yep yeah you're lucky that i pushed up on i pushed the phone on he doesn't like getting caught off guard like that. Once he gets here, he's all right.

He's not a bad guy, Brian. He just usually doesn't get involved with people. Does his own thing, I don't know. He's a weird one. He'll tell you he's coming, he doesn't, he used to tell me all the time, yeah, I'll be right there, and you don't see him for six months.

Well, you know, people can change. People can change. I've been here for a while, and Jay wants to let the dog out of the back room, so I move into the front foyer and Jay wants to let the dog out of the back room so I move into the front foyer and stand behind a glass door. That's a big dog. He's just very protective.

So your last name is, is it Lewis or Sweeney? Sweeney, legally Lewis. I was brought up as my stepfather. Oh, so your stepfather is Lewis. Yeah, so they all know me as Lewis, Haley as Sweeney. My ID's all under Sweeney. Brian's too, I guess. It's been a while since Brian said he was on his way home, and I've spent well over an hour with Jay. He's telling me about another fight when a text comes in.

Over Porky. I was going after Porky to punch him out, and the keeper grabbed me. So... Brian. Hey, I just got called back to work. I have to fix a boiler. They have no heat. So he ain't coming home, because he's on call, even when he's home.

Okay. But, I mean, that's the job he's got. He works in that way. Now he's got to fix a boiler. They have no heat. Jay shares Brian's number with me, and I send him a text, asking him to let me know when he's free. Before I leave, I decide to ask one last time about Jay's thoughts on Cheryl's disappearance.

You know, I just, if you're going to put my opinion that I think it was Mike and thing on there, I got no hate against these people. If I had to guess, that's where I would start is all I'm saying. I'm not saying that they did anything. That's okay, I can use that statement that you just said. They know my opinion, they don't come near me, so... All right. Well, I thank you for your time.

Yeah, yeah. No problem. I got no reason to hide or anything like that. Brian, well, he's a quiet guy. Nice to meet you, man. You too, buddy. Yeah. And say bye to your dog, Frank. Yeah. Thanks. Take care, buddy.

Okay. Jay was trying to be helpful, and I felt that in the discussion I had with him. Making my way home to Toronto, I receive a call from Odette. Hello? Hi, Dave. Hey, how are you?

Fine. I was talking to my sister-in-law this morning. Yeah. She told me something that you should look into it. Okay. I'll need to make a U-turn to talk to someone else. I pull up outside of a Hamilton low-rise, a building that looks like it was built in the early 1960s,

wrapped with balconies. Inside, Cheryl's aunt, Margaret Jeannet. Odette says Margaret's been holding on to a piece of very interesting information for nearly 19 years. Information that Odette herself has apparently only today just heard about. Hello? Oh, hi there. It's Dave Ridgen here. Come on in.

How are you? Not too bad, how are you? I'm good, thanks for doing this. Come on in. How are you? Not too bad, how are you? I'm good, thanks for doing this. Margaret's apartment is very orderly, everything in its place. An arthritic 15-year-old cat named Angel sprawls on the carpet,

and if I approach, her eyes go full black. Margaret herself is a youngish mid-60s, with thin lips, a serious gaze, and stylish rose metal glasses. We settle on a flowery, well-worn beige couch. Tell me everything you can remember about her and then we'll get into the other story. Now where do you want me to start because she was at our place on New Year's Eve. My son gave her the other story. Okay, now where do you want me to start? Because she was at our place on New Year's Eve. My son gave her the tickets to go to the place where Mike Lavoie proposed to her.

I can start from before she was taken away. She had come to me at one point, and she asked me about stripping. She used to strip, but because her uncle found out, he was hurt, and she stopped. She got her job at Tim Hortons, and she was working somewhere else, but I cannot remember where, and so she stopped, and there was a time that she came over to our place with Mike's kids, and I had baked cookies, and she asked, and I said, you don't have to ask, bring them.

And they came over, and they had cookies and milk or juice or whatever, and this is when she said to me, she says, I need to go and dance, because Sheila needs some help. And I said, what do you mean? So she proceeded to tell me, and I said, okay. I said, I will deal with your uncle. Cheryl had pledged to her uncle, after he found out about her stripping, that she would not do it again, but came back, Margaret says, to get her blessing, to do it one more time to help her sister Sheila's financial situation.

This was about a year before Cheryl disappeared, Margaret says, and as far as she knows, was the last time Cheryl danced. To help Sheila out, and she said, and this will be the last. And as far as I know, that was the very last for stripping. That was about a year before she went missing. Approximately a year before she went missing. She had Mike's kids with her when she asked you that? Yeah. Yeah. Well, the kids went outside in the back and played. How long do you think she was with Mike? Off and on. I'd say a year or more, maybe a couple years. She called us a couple of times to come over. He would beat her up. She just said he beat

me up. He beat me up. I mean, there was times she's had a few bruises on her. Where were the bruises? There was some on her side, in her arms, her legs, but she would go back to him again. And I told him, I said, if I ever catch you doing it, and I don't believe that you didn't lay a hand on her, I said, you better hope the police get to you first, I said, because I'll kill you. On New Year's Eve 1997, Margaret saw Cheryl one last time when she dropped by to pick up the tickets

to the event at the Hamilton Convention Centre. Margaret says she talked to Cheryl about Odette, who would soon be coming back from New Brunswick. And then when we gave her the tickets, and she was joking around with her uncle and stuff, and then she says, well, we're going to go. And I said, you be careful. And I said, you take care of yourself. And I said, any problems, you call us.

And she says, I will. And I said, I problems, you call us. And she says, I will. And I says, I'm serious. And my husband did not trust him. And then we saw it on the news where he proposed to her. And my husband said, oh, no, not him. And I said, I'd like to know where he got that ring. I said, he never had money in his pocket to buy a ring. And on New Year's Day, she phoned to tell us that she got engaged.

And there was something in her voice, but I never picked up on it. But I can't talk too long, Auntie. I'm in a rush. I've got to get going. I've got a lot of people I have to talk to. And I thought there was something about the voice. And then that was the last I spoke to her. And then when it was settled that she had gone missing,

there was Sheila, my husband, myself, and I can't remember who. There was a bunch of us. We had gone to the police station or whatever. And Sheila had a letter. She said it was from Cheryl. This is why Odette called me, and this is why I'm here. A letter that Cheryl gave her sister Sheila. Sheila, Cheryl's sister, said she had a letter and she wanted to give it to the police. I can't remember if they took the letter,

and the letter had come from Cheryl. Margaret says Cheryl had previously told her about a letter that she gave to her sister, Sheila. Apparently, it contained information about illegal activities Cheryl and those around her had been undertaking. She said, if anything happens to me, if I go missing, or I'm hurt in any way,

she said, just make sure that she knew everything. She said, my life will be in danger once I spill the beans. So there's this letter, and if Sheila still has it or if the detectives have it. I can't remember the detectives' names. They were the first two detectives on the case. It's important to keep in mind here that Margaret says she never actually read the letter Cheryl told her about. Did you see the letter that Sheila had that she said Cheryl wrote to her?

She had the paper. She had the paper. She just said, I have it here. And Cheryl told me herself before, she said if anything should ever happen, Aunt Mark, she says, I gave Sheila a letter. And it's to be opened when anything happens. Because she says, I need you to know that my life will be in danger. Will be in danger. She didn't specify how, when, why.

She said, if I go through and tell what I know, she said, I will be in danger. She says, and you need to, you know, and she says, Sheila has this letter. So have you ever spoken to Sheila about the letter since then? No. Actually, I haven't spoken to Sheila in maybe seven years or more. Sheila's like that. She doesn't, you know, every now and again she'll come and talk, and other days she won't, but I haven't spoken to her since.

I really want to talk to Sheila because I think she's, I mean, she's obviously Cheryl's sister and she has a connection to her, but also she keeps coming up in conversation, especially this letter. I mean, it's important. That's as far as I know exactly what was in it. Like I said, I don't know if I've read it. I can't remember if I did. There was so much going on now, but she had it in her

hand. She had, and she had a tape. I remember a tape being in her hand too. A videotape? I don't, it was a, I think it was like a cassette tape, a small tape. Sheila had the tape? Yes. She said, I have a tape and I've got the letter. And I can't remember if the police officers or whoever it was, or the detectives, they took it. But I know it seemed like it was just a waste of time for us to be there at that time. And they said, oh, they'll be in touch with you. But I can't remember if they took anything, if it would be in for the evidence or if Sheila still has it in her possession or what? I'm going to have to go find out and hopefully Sheila is open to talking to me about it.

Margaret says she saw Sheila, Cheryl's sister, with the letter and a tape, with Sheila saying the identical story from Cheryl. If something happens to me, read the letter, listen to the tape. I probe further to see if Margaret knows anything else about the case. Did you ever think that there might have been another prime suspect in the disappearance? I do. Sometimes I thought of Brian, but I knew he loved her to pieces. And I don't know. They've had a lot of ins and outs.

They've had a lot of, she was married to him. And I do know for a fact that if she ever went stripping, if Cheryl did go, it was in Niagara Falls, and he was the only one that ever took her because he would drop her off, and then she would tell him when her last performance or whatever you want to call it was going to be, and he went and picked her up. He never went in to see her, whereas Mike was never, ever there because she knew he wanted to go in and watch her and she

didn't want that but Brian I'd like to think not he went for a lie detectors test and he passed it even the detective said and I said Brian would know where she is Brian know knew said, and I said, Brian would know where she is. Brian knew a lot. And I said, ask Brian. Now, she knew a lot of people. So I don't know. And you say that Brian was the one that would always take her down to Strip and Niagara and bring her back.

Yeah. How do you know that? She told me herself. She told me. She said, he's the only one that I trust. Brian. Yeah, because I said to her, I says, how are you going to get there? Then one night, and she says, Brian.

Brian will take me. But this would have been a year before she disappeared. Yeah. Okay. Did you ever meet Brian? Yes, I have. I liked him. I really did.

But he was nothing but a gentleman towards us. But I mean, I've heard stories about him. I didn't like the idea when I found out that he was with Mike when doing all these robberies, and he was in jail too. I know Cheryl had problems with Brian, but they were more to do domestically, not fighting. He never hit her, but he ran around on her when they were married and all the rest of it. So they had, you know, issues like that.

But we were never, ever called where he hit her or anything. Even when they split up, they weren't divorced at the time. If she needed help, he was there for her. Did she ever tell you about any of the robberies or anything that were undertaken by these guys? I don't know where or anything. She just told me they would do these robberies and there was even times Mike would have these guys working it and he would say, well, I'm going to go away.

I can't be here. And then a lot of times, this is how Brian had to go in jail, and whoever was with Brian doing this one, he called the police on them. Mike did. And then they got caught, and they went to jail. How do we know that Mike called the police? Does that? Well, Cheryl was telling me this. I got a lot of information from her.

According to what Margaret says, Cheryl told her that Michael Lavoie was allegedly snitching on his fellow B&E mates, perhaps avoiding doing time is the implication. Pat Lavoie told me previously that Cheryl was snitching on the same group. Police say that Cheryl was known to have had dealings with a now deceased officer named Ron Collingwood about a break and enter he was investigating. And there's also anecdotal information from police that Michael Lavoie was involved in a B&E along with two others, but the charges against Lavoie were dropped while the other two had to serve time.

I'll have to try verifying this with Brian and hopefully Michael himself, but I'm also going to have to speak to Sheila about this letter and tape. The mention of a tape brings to mind another story I've been hearing about, something that I held back from earlier episodes because I wanted to investigate it further. A story involving other videotapes and blackmail. I first heard about it from Betty Yergin. The way I met Cheryl was through Keeper. She used to be married. To help keep track, Betty Yergin was a friend who later married Cheryl's first husband, Keith Keeper Dale.

Her chihuahua Chester sat on my lap during the interview. She was his ex-wife, and I was cool with that. Betty told me about a story where Cheryl got in touch with her in the fall, September of 1997. And she wanted to go and meet with Mike Lavoie. And she wanted me to go with her. Cheryl wanted to meet Mike? Cheryl wanted to meet Mike Lavoie because she wanted to get these videotapes from him.

Now the videotapes apparently contained sexual content and also a certain crime. Sexual content or a certain crime. What it was, I don't know. I'm just, she just kept on emphasizing how she wanted to get these tapes and she wanted to get it from him. She was afraid of him and she just wanted me to be on the lookout.

I wasn't supposed to go with Cheryl to approach Mike to approach mike lavoy i was just supposed to be like behind the scenes when when was this with the tapes this september the first week my daughter was born september 3rd um and she's going to be 19 and she was just born so i would say it could have been around the 6th 7th 8th of September, almost 19 years ago, that this happened. 1997. Yeah. Months before she disappeared. Betty remembers the date since September 1997 so precisely, she says, because she'd just given birth. But because she'd just gotten home from hospital, it meant that she couldn't go with Cheryl as her backup.

And I said to her, I said, I would love to help you out, Cheryl, but I'm all stitched up. There's no way I can even help you if you're into trouble to protect you or do anything because I'm not going to be able to run. So she said, well, okay. And then she goes, I'll just do it on my own. And I begged her not to do it. She ended up leaving my house. Brian had stayed at my house and she took off by herself. Later on that evening, we were all supposed to meet up at Tim Hortons again,

and we did, and at that point in time, she had told Brian, you know what, get your stuff, move out, me and Mike are back together. And I just looked at her like, what? You know, just not even a couple hours ago, you were fearful because you wanted these tapes and that. So I just feel that it was very odd he's moving in and you're moving out it's like how does that work and she would have been afraid of mike why what i was getting from her being afraid and the way she was talking and

wanted me behind the scenes because i think she was afraid he would do something i mean the videotapes you know what if it's exposed what's the worst that's going to happen? So I think it's because she was afraid, you know, he was very violent, is the impression I was getting. I mean, I just personally think that if you're going to blackmail someone, I mean, why even be with that person? If that person's not going to be, you know, if they have to have a hold over you to keep you, why be with that person? There's something more to it. Like, I mean, there's got to be more behind the scenes that I'm not seeing. Did anything ever come up of the tapes again after that?

Like she went back with him, she went to see him to get the tapes, then she went back with him, said goodbye, Brian, and then did you ever hear about the tapes again? Nope. Not at all. So where are those tapes, whether he even has those tapes? I don't even know. Those tapes were never, ever mentioned. And I don't know if anyone else knew about it. That's why I remember having that conversation with her,

and I would never, other than telling you and telling the police, I would never tell anyone else about these tapes. Betty knows about this story, she says, because Cheryl told her about it. But it is possible that Brian Sweeney also knows something about it. And Pamela Branton, who Odette and I met with near the propane tanks, also has a version of a story to tell about blackmail. Pam says she saw Cheryl in late December 1997. Installing a TV on a wall sounds simple, right?

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got me drinks and that and then we said let's go over to the bar well when we went there she said I'm gonna leave now I said won't you stay like I can't stay and she's never like that she don't say I can't stay she would have stayed so and then she said something about him blackmailing her for her to stay with him. Who? Mike. Mike Lavoie? Yeah. So did you ask what that meant, blackmail? It had something to do with Sears. I don't know. She mentioned something about that. Something to do with Sears. Yeah. Sears, the department store. We don't know what Pam means here, but a narrowly defined news search from the time reveals that a Sears in Hamilton was broken into in March 1997, and that some TVs were stolen. A police canine unit was reportedly unsuccessful in tracking the thieves.

It's unknown who undertook the break-in, or if it's related to Pam's conversation with Cheryl. Something about she knows a lot of stuff about seers. I don't know. My sister told her to get rid of them, and she says I can't. Something about a black male on her. Yeah, I don't know if it makes a difference, but it's good to know, right?

They never ever asked me. The police never ever questioned or asked me anything. Only Paula, not me. Did Paula ever talk to you about this black male business? No, I don't think she knows. I don't know if she knows. So what's going on here? Was Michael Lavoie blackmailing Cheryl? Did he have videos of her that she didn't want anyone to see? One of a sexual nature and one of a robbery? Perhaps a robbery at Sears like Pam was mentioning. Or as I've heard from Margaret, Cheryl's aunt, did Cheryl also have something on

Michael with her own tape and letter? It's clear from Margaret, Betty, and now Pam, that Cheryl was afraid of something happening to her. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, sir. A woman I've met after the podcast began rolling out also says she heard Cheryl say something that indicated she felt she was in danger. When was the last time you talked to Cheryl in her life, like ever? The last time I talked to Cheryl was the day she told me, Grace, don't be surprised if I go missing. That was the last time. Grace Russo was a friend of Cheryl's and says she even lived with her for a while. The entrance to Grace's home is actually a garage door. I can't keep the birds quiet. Sorry.

Inside, a bird in a cage and a cat on the floor, and we move into a small living room to sit. Grace is an American citizen, and she's wearing a V-neck gray shirt with dark hair, eyes, and glasses, and has expansive wing-like gold earrings and a tiny stud nose piercing. She was a good person, Cheryl. I walked her to work to pick up her check. She knew something was going to happen.

What? I don't know. I didn't have a chance to talk to her, and I'm so upset about that because I wish I would have had the time to talk to her because we wouldn't be going through this now. You know what I mean? And when we got towards the parking lot, just as we hit the very end of the parking lot, she looked at me and said, Grace, don't be surprised if I go missing. Like when she went missing, it ripped me apart. Grace has a hard time recalling exactly when this conversation might have occurred.

And she doesn't have any further details, but based on her account, she puts it somewhere between early September and late November of 1997. But Grace has a few other stories that help to shed light on Cheryl, Brian, and Michael. What I know of Mike, I don't like. What do you know about Mike? Mike is a very angry man. He scares me. I remember when him and Cheryl had an argument and he cut up all her clothes and he took

a bulldog, a red bulldogdog and he ripped the head off stuffed animal like a stuffed animal yeah it was a stuffed animal but i mean still but you witnessed that i saw that so i'm interested in what you saw with i saw that with my own two eyes how did he cut the clothes up with what a scissors and he just cut them and yeah oh yeah. Brian went out and bought her brand new clothes because he didn't want to see her do without. Brian was a good man. He would do anything for her. He would walk the sun and the moon with that woman.

Like, that's how much Brian loved Cheryl. Grace goes on to tell me a story from when she and Cheryl were living together. Some of the items in their apartment were borrowed from Brian, she says, and these and other items police found there turned out to be stolen property. Grace and Cheryl were arrested as a result. Next thing you know, there's cops from hell everywhere. And I'm going like, what the hell

is going on here? Like he goes, well, you're under arrest. And I says, under arrest for what? Well, I don't know, some kind of stolen whatever. Stolen merchandise? Yeah. And I go, look, I don't know, some kind of stolen whatever. And I says, Stolen merchandise? Yeah. And I go, look, I don't know what you're talking about, but whatever. So they handcuffed me and they handcuffed Cheryl.

And it was so funny. She's so skinny, right? She went, Grace. And she wiggled them. Her hands were out of those handcuffs. I went, oh, you witch. Like, serious? And, like, she put them back on.

But she showed me she could take them off. So they took us up to this place on the mountain. The police. Yes. They talked to Cheryl. I don't know what they said to her. But when they got a hold of me, I says, look, I don't know what was in my house. I have a lock on my bedroom door.

I don't go in other people's stuff. That's not my business. So what did the police find in your apartment? Apparently, they found a book of pink and turn slips. They took all her shoes. That poor girl, like, I mean, she was lucky she had a pair of running shoes. Cheryl. Yeah. They didn't take anything of mine, but Cheryl, oh, my God.

I'm telling you, a mouthpiece and a half. She would not shut up at the police station. I'm telling you, in the jail, oh, my God to choke her i swear to god what was she saying screaming at the cops yelling at them i thought you know like all this kind of stuff and i'm going cheryl shut up we could get out of here tonight shut your mouth be quiet you know but no I had to stay in there and I was like stressed right out did it turn out that the stuff was Brian's like yeah it did actually to be honest with you did Cheryl ever serve any time in jail no Cheryl did not Brian did but Cheryl did not no she was 120 things of community service.

Hours or days? Yeah, hours. Yeah. Court records indicate that Cheryl was given community service hours for an offense of possession of stolen property under $5,000 in July 1996. It's not known if this is the same incident that Grace is saying Brian served time for. And what Cheryl actually did to receive the charge is still unknown without some further information. I finish up my interview with Grace, but I'm still left with questions.

Why is it that Cheryl feared for her safety? Is the answer in the letter and tape that Cheryl allegedly gave to Sheila, her sister? Did Sheila give it to police? And if not, does she still have it? I need to speak to Sheila. Hello, hello. Oh, hi. Can I speak to Sheila, please? I'm sorry, speak louder? Oh, can I speak to Sheila, please? Oh, you must have missed out. There's no Sheila here. Okay. Do you know Sheila, Sheila Shepard?

I'm outside a squat, pinkish apartment building, and I'm trying to find Sheila. Even Odette has trouble reaching her as I understand their relationship is sometimes strained. The number I've tracked down for Sheila appears to be the right building, but the wrong person. Do you want me to walk up and take this phone up? Is it important, sir? Yeah, I would like to talk to her. Does she have a phone? I'm not sure.

Okay, if you could take the phone up to her, that would be great. I always know it is the second door. I'll tell you when I'm getting there. I'm almost up all the way now. Sheila? Hello? Oh, hi. Is this Sheila? Yeah.

Hi, Sheila. My name's David Ridge, and I'm working on a radio documentary about Cheryl. Yes. I get Sheila's number and call'm working on a radio documentary about Cheryl. Yes. I get Sheila's number and call her back on her own phone. But she doesn't want to meet in person. Can we do this over the phone? We can. I'm actually parked nearby outside.

We can do it outside if you want or inside. No, no, no. I'll do it over the phone. Otherwise, I won't do it at all. Okay, well, let's do it over the phone. Okay. Okay, no. I'll do it over the phone, otherwise I won't do it at all. Okay, well, let's do it over the phone. Okay. Okay, great. Sheila, just tell me a little bit about what you remember about Cheryl and anything you want to talk about. What do I remember about her? She was a beautiful young lady who was vibrant, fun-loving.

And what do you remember about the time when she disappeared there? Around that time, what was going on in her life? She was with Mike. He was controlling. He used to camp out at her workplace. Very controlling. She used to come by to visit the kids. I had a couple kids at that time.

It was before Christmas. She stopped by with some gifts for the kids, and the day she disappeared, I was supposed to go to her house to do my laundry. But nobody could reach her. So the day she disappeared, which was what date? Can you remember the date? Was it January 1st or 2nd that you were supposed to go do the laundry? Okay. And then what happened? I think it was the next day, or maybe that day, her and Mike came to my place.

And Mike seemed very nervous. My kid's father commented on it. They used to play hockey together. And he commented on how nervous he was. He had a ring on him. He kept turning the ring. I have a picture of my sister on my desk. And Mike came alone to your place? Oh, with your mother. And this was after Cheryl disappeared.

To be clear here, Sheila is saying that Michael Lavoie and Odette visited her on the morning of Monday, January 5th, after Cheryl went missing. And so he looked nervous. Did he ever say anything to you or to your, I guess, and I were at the casino, and Richard and Mike had an altercation in the casino. I see. That was the only time that I've seen Mike since my sister's disappearance. Do you remember, Cheryl, ever talking to you about being worried about Mike? Yes. She gave me a tape, a little micro tape,

and she said if anything was to ever happen to her, to give it to the police. I've never listened. I've never had the recorder. I've never listened to this tape, but I gave it to the police. So you gave the tape to the police? Yes. Okay.

And did she also write a letter? Not that I know of. Okay. So you never had a letter from Cheryl? of. Okay. So you never had a letter from Cheryl? No. Okay. And what did Cheryl say was on the tape, and why would she have given you this tape?

I can't really assume. But she said if anything was to ever happen to her, to give it to the police. So there was never any discussion about what was on it, just that it might have... No, there was no discussion. And you just kept it and dutifully gave it to police? Correct. When did she give you that tape? When did Cheryl give you the tape, Sheila?

Oh. Oh, God. I don't remember when. Would it have been a year, two years, or many months or days before she disappeared? No, it would have been, like, maybe two, three months. Like, it's been a while, you know what I mean? And I can't say right now, like, when she gave that tape to me. Did you think it was weird that Cheryl came to you with a tape?

Well, I thought it odd. When she gave it to me, she didn't seem worried about it. She just said, if anything was to ever happen, just give this to the police. Interesting. in the locked storage garage, and the police wanted us to come in, that's when I brought the tape in. Because I believe something happened to her. You didn't have a tape player that could play it, and you obviously didn't make a copy of it, I guess. No.

Okay. So that indicated to you that she was worried about Mike? Correct. Did you ever witness any violence between Cheryl and Mike? Yes. We called the police one time in her apartment. He was being very aggressive with her. I called the police.

The police came and escorted him out. Can you describe the aggression? What was going on? He was just manhandling her. He had her by her ribs. He was shoving her. Did you ever witness Cheryl being violent with anybody? No.

Okay. And with regards to Cheryl's, I'm sorry, I got all these questions. I'm just going to keep rolling through them if that's okay. Did you ever witness, did you ever see Cheryl dance in any of the strip clubs? Yes, years ago. And when do you think that Cheryl stopped stripping? Maybe a year before her disappearance. I'm just assuming.

I just woke up, so I'm not thinking clearly. I haven't had my cup of coffee yet. Okay. Did you ever know Brian Sweeney? Yes. And what were your thoughts on Brian? Well, I liked Brian when he was married to my sister. You haven't kept in touch with Brian then?

No. Did you think that Brian had been violent with Cheryl? No. I ask Sheila how the loss of Cheryl has affected her over time. Oh, God. In the beginning, I was heavily medicated. I was very close to my sister. But I've learned to accept it. I don't know if you understand.

I miss her terribly. I have pictures of her. I talk about her all the time. My one daughter, my oldest daughter, reminds me so much of Cheryl. They're like two peas in a pod. Their personality, like they were outgoing, the life of the party,

and my daughter's the exact same way, you know? They look alike. You'd think that Haley was my sister's daughter rather than my daughter. She's blonde, blonde like my sister, you know? We were close. We were very close. She was very attached to my children. Like, she was over all the time, you know? My children spent, well, in their younger years,

spent more time with her than they did with me. She was like their second mom. There's some people that say, oh, she's still alive, she's in Florida or something. Would you, do you believe any of that? The first call with Sheila comes to a close. I have confirmation about the tape, but not the letter that Margaret mentioned. I'll have to confirm with police. Except, I still need to ask Sheila about Sam Pereira, the man who was arrested for killing two women in Hamilton and who may have known Sheila's husband Richard

and thus made me wonder, did Cheryl ever meet Pereira? It seems unlikely, but it's also not the type of coincidence that you can easily ignore. So another phone call to Sheila. Hello? Oh, hi phone call to Sheila. Hello? Oh, hi, it's Sheila. I have a quick question for you. Richard Falkenham was the name of the person you lived with at one time, right?

Yes. We just lived common law. But you're not with Richard anymore? No, absolutely not. And at the time when you were with Richard, did he ever meet Sam Pereira? Yep, he was in Galveston. And did he meet Sam outside of jail? No.

So was Sam ever over at your place, would you say? No. Okay. I just wondered if there was a possibility that somehow Cheryl had come into contact with Pereira through Richard. Do you think that that's a possibility? No, no, no. Well, we thought about it. I was eventually, through one of Sheila and Richard's daughters, able to get in touch with Richard himself. And in a gruff, world-weary voice, like a character out of a Tom Waits song,

he told me he met Pereira in prison and talked to him over a few days in his cell. They exchanged phone numbers, but Richard says that Pereira and he never met outside of prison. So while nothing is certain, based on what I've heard from Sheila and Richard and on further consultation with Detectives Tom and Abby Rashid, I can't find any evidence that Sam Pereira played a role in Cheryl's disappearance. These little papers, I don't have these. Can I copy these? I don't have these. What is this? It's a little, your notes from the 4th and 5th of January.

Oh, I used to write a lot of things down, eh? Would you have made those notes on those days? Yeah. Some of the details I get from Sheila in our phone calls are echoed again when I visit Odette to check in and ask her a few questions about Cheryl's divorce from Brian. While searching through a set of Odette's documents, I stumble upon some of her original handwritten notes from the days immediately following Cheryl's disappearance.

And it turns out there are a few extra details for Monday, January 5th that I can now add to Odette's memories of the time. I got up at 4 a.m. this morning and got ready for work. And then, oh yeah, okay, that was the morning that my Thursday back from my holiday, I had to go to work. So for the evening of January 4th, when Odette gets home from her Christmas holiday down east,

the story is the same. She comes home, talks to Michael, goes to sleep, gets up early to go to work, then asks for the day off because she's worried about Cheryl. She heads back to the Queenston Road apartment. Then there are new details to add to the timeline. Around 9.30 a.m. when she gets back to her apartment on Monday morning. Mike got up and after he had his shower, and got ready to take me to Toronto to pick up my luggage at the train station.

You went back to Toronto with Mike to get your luggage? Yeah. Apparently, somebody got killed in Toronto. They jumped in front of the train, and we couldn't get our luggage. They couldn't move the train, so I had to go pick up my luggage. So on the drive to get the luggage and stuff, do you remember Michael talking to you about anything? I questioned him about that. In the car?

In the car. I said, did you see her going in? He says, no, I drove. I went in an alleyway like I told you. And she got out and then I left because I was going to see the girls. On the way back home, I asked Mike if he could stop at Tim Horton where Cheryl worked.

When Mike and I got there, I asked Paula and Tracy if they'd seen Cheryl. After picking up the luggage, Michael and Odette dropped in on the way back at Tim Horton's to speak to Paula Branton. Paula, you'll recall, is one of the twins that Cheryl was friends with. Then, after Tim Horton's, Michael and Odette visited Sheila, and after that were back on the timeline already set out,

with Odette leaving to file the missing persons report and returning home to find, she says, that Michael had moved most of his belongings out of the apartment. I've also come across another sighting of Cheryl on the afternoon of Friday, January 2nd, 1998. According to police, after being seen at the bingo, she was seen again with Michael Lavoie by a friend working at a gas station sometime between noon and 2pm.

Time for a visit to Detective Peter Tom to ask about the tape and the letter that I've heard Cheryl gave Sheila. Peter. I'm good. Happy New Year, sir. Yeah, Happy New Year. I'm good. I guess I haven't seen you

since before Christmas. No, sir. Yeah, Happy New Year. Thanks. I'm good. I guess I haven't seen you since before Christmas. No, no. So I've been speaking to lots of different people since I saw you last. Okay. And I was speaking to Sheila, Sheila Shepard. And Sheila told me that she had received a tape from Cheryl prior to her disappearance. Okay. Do you recall that as part of the evidence?

I know there was, yeah, the tape. It's her reading a disclosure document. It's her reading a disclosure document about what? About a case that Lavoie was involved in. She and Lavoie were involved? I believe so, yeah. Okay. So it would have been a case of theft or one of those.

I can't remember the specifics of the tape. There was some discussion going on. There was a recorded phone conversation between her and a male, who I believe to be Mike Lavoie, but nothing of real relevance in that. I wonder why she would give that particular tape to Sheila and say, you know, if I disappear, listen to this tape. What do you think? I've got no idea. No idea.

It's not something that really pops out at you. Was there a letter with it as well? Not that I can find any sign of. Okay, because Margaret Jeannet, who is Cheryl's aunt, had said that on the day Sheila

came into the police station with her that she saw Sheila holding a letter and a tape and said, Cheryl gave me this letter and tape, and I'm going to give it to the police. Right. So presumably the letter and tape had some relationship to each other, or at least to this utterance of,

if I disappear, listen to this tape, read this letter. Right. But you're not able to find the letter. I can't find it, no. Can we listen to the tape? Could it have some evidential value? Perhaps. So I'm going to have to refuse that.

Not even just to hear Cheryl's voice? I keep asking you for this. If there's anything that doesn't have the other male voice on it, the voice that you think is Michael, that doesn't necessarily mention the case or anything probative. It would be really nice just to hear her voice saying something. You take that under consideration. I'll think about it.

Could this disclosure document that Cheryl is reading or discussing on the tape have some relevance to any of the stories I've heard so far about blackmail or why Cheryl might have been afraid for her life. Hard to know without hearing it, but Peter Tom seems firm on not releasing it. I wonder what happened to the letter Cheryl told her Aunt Margaret about, the one that Margaret says she saw at the police station in Sheila's hand? If it exists, does it have a relationship to the tape? Speaking of letters, there's one more letter I need to talk to Tom about while I'm here. Michael Lavoie's letter to Pat before he

entered the storage locker. Detective Tom says that he took action based on hearing in the podcast that the letter existed. I did meet with Pat and Bill and she confirmed that she received a letter from Michael. She was a bit vague on the contents. It was more so to do with him missing his previous wife and not getting to see his children as much and there was some money in there for his kids. And did you ask to see the letter? Apparently when they moved from Hamilton to their current location it was destroyed at that point. She held on to it for a number of years. What was the meeting like?

If they were aware of anything in relation to Michael having anything to do with Cheryl's disappearance, that he would not provide any information to the police in relation to that. It's really crucial that he comes and speaks, really. I mean, he's the only one who can answer many of the questions that all boil down from all the interviews and people and discussions that I've had. Absolutely. Does the letter still exist?

Did Michael ever write other letters to other relatives or friends? I move on to talking about something else that came up in my call with Pat. Brian's alibi. In the interviews with Brian Sweeney and Tracy Lavoie, Michael's sister, in 1998, was it ever established that Brian was with Tracy over the weekend Cheryl disappeared, or was he not with Tracy that weekend? They weren't looking at him, per se, as a person of interest or a suspect in that. So, but in the course of his polygraph test they must have asked

Brian where he was that weekend right? We were confident at that point that he wasn't involved. Okay. According to former detective Warren Correll it was established that Brian had alibis from Thursday January 1st 1998 all the way across the weekend that Cheryl disappeared. According to Coral, Brian's friends and relatives stood by all of these claims. The one witness who I would like to directly confirm Brian's alibi with is Tracy Lavoie. But so far, Tracy is suggesting through my communications with her that she will not talk to me. I need her to come forward and tell me what she knows about these and other crucial details.

George, I literally pulled in here just a second to come and knock on this house. That's where you live, right? Oh, yeah. Amazing. Sorry to bug you. Do you need help getting out? No, I just have to save my time. What's up? Okay, I work for CBC, CBC Radio, and I'm working on a documentary about Cheryl Shepard. Oh, yeah?

And your name came up as somebody who might have witnessed something that I wanted to talk about and it seems like a pretty important detail if you wouldn't mind just chatting with me about that. So now I've come to a home across the street from where Brian and his family lived at the time of Cheryl's disappearance to speak to a new witness I've become aware of after a discussion with Odette, who used to work with him. His name is George Lyon. George, you want me to get down on the other side there? Yeah, right there.

Okay. George Lyon is almost 74, but he looks older, with wrinkled eyelids and a wizened face. He has the easy style of someone experienced with years of taxi talk, with customers sitting in his van, much like I am now. It's dark on the street outside, and George flicks on the interiors as I settle in the passenger seat, lighting us both in a superbly lurid glow. Well, thanks so much for doing this. It's a way past time.

I'm sorry? It's a way past time. Yes, it's one of those cases that just never goes away. Okay, it was New Year's Day that Cheryl drove up here and parked on this street. She parked right there and walked over to her, used to be her husband's or boyfriend's or something, number 25. And she was there for a little while. All the stories I've heard is she was never seen after the New Year's party in Niagara Falls. Well, she was. I saw her. My wife saw her.

Here's a girl I knew her fairly well. I worked with her mother for a couple of years, three years. And it's sad. George and his wife see Cheryl on New Year's Day, 1998, walking into the house that Brian lived in. So when you say you saw her go into the house, did you see her leave the house? I did not see her leave the house. I know she was in there for a good hour and a half. How do you know that? Just because the car was there?

Because we saw her get out of the car and go across the road. And, okay, the car was here for at least an hour and a half because it was parked right in front of me. You saw her, Cheryl, get out of the car? I saw her get out of that car. And you saw her go into that house? And I saw her go into that house. Did you see Brian?

And I did not see Brian that day. I can't say for a positive I never saw him that day. I might have. But I did not see him right at that time. But... I might have, but I did not see him right at that time. But. Do you remember the time of day, George, that you saw her drive up? It was around lunchtime. Maybe between 12 and 1, somewhere in there.

And you would say she would have been in there for an hour and a half, an hour, hour and a half, two hours. I would say well over an hour, maybe two hours. Interesting. Okay. And then on that day, did you ever, did you see Michael Lavoie ever? I don't ever remember seeing Michael Lavoie. Now, I know the name rings a bell with me, but I don't, I can't picture him. Okay. But you know Brian? I know Brian, yeah.

Did you ever ask Brian about that day? No, no. We didn't talk to Brian or his family. His grandma was okay. George wasn't a fan of his neighbours and seems relieved when he tells me about them finally moving out a few years ago. I'm done here for now. Well that's fascinating. I really thank you for your time. Yeah, it'll be really interesting to find out what really happened.

George Lyon has never heard that Cheryl was seen at the bingo and gas station the following day, on January 2nd, so he assumes that his sighting of Cheryl may be the last. And everyone I've spoken to about Brian says he was a sweetheart and would never have hurt Cheryl. But the reported actions of Brian's mother Dorothy regarding his alibi, as well as assertions made by Cheryl's Aunt Margaret and Michael Lavoie's mother Pat, do make me wonder, was something missed with Brian? Just recently, Brian texted me back. He's been listening to the podcast and wants to clear up some of the things he's been hearing. And so do I.

Next, if all goes as planned, tracking down Brian Sweeney. You have been listening to Episode 11, Blackmail. Visit cbc.ca slash sks to see photos of Margaret Giannini, Grace Russo, and George Lyon. Someone Knows Something is hosted, written, and produced by David Ridgen and mixed by Cecil Fernandez. The series is also produced by Chris Oak, Steph Kampf, and executive producer Arif Noorani. Our theme music is by Bob Wiseman, with vocals by Mary Margaret O'Hara and Jess Reimer. Maybe one day we will Look out at the sun