Someone Knows Something - S2 Episode 3: Blondie

Episode Date: December 5, 2016

Who was Sheryl Sheppard? David speaks to her family, friends and coworkers to try to find out if there was anything in her past that could provide clues to explain her sudden disappearance. For transcripts of this series, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/season2/someone-knows-something-season-2-sheryl-sheppard-transcript-listen-1.3846237

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There was officers on the scene and it was Rob and I who opened the door to the garage. And we could hear snoring, which is a symptom of somebody who's got carbon monoxide poisoning and hasn't quite died. Okay, so the implication is that carbon monoxide, self-destruction or suicide. That's one way it could be looked at. The last person that claimed to have seen Sean alive was Michael LaVoy. In the whole history of the case, Michael LaVoy has only spoken to police less than 30 minutes of his time. And in that time, would you say that he is denied having anything to do with her disappearance?

Absolutely, yep. Going forward, I'm interested in Cheryl's past because it forms part of Michael Lavoie's story of where he says he last saw her. Could it be conceivable that she would have been dropped off at the Concord Hotel at that time in her life? Is Lavoie's story credible? I know I'm talking in riddles. I know, it's okay, I'll try to unravel it. This is Episode 3, Blondie.

Back in the day, when I worked there with Cheryl, we had an old man that lived across the street and would come over drunk and throw beer bottles at our window every day. One of the girls, her ex came in and slit his throat in the store. Random's passing out in our bathrooms because they were cracked out or coked out or whatever. I had to just recently go in there and call the ambulance because the guy was drunk. He had a bottle in his hand.

He was in the girls bathroom laying there sleeping. Needles all over the bathrooms. Like they just leave their needles everywhere. Sounds like an emergency ward. I'm sitting on a sidewalk near the loading dock of a Hamilton mall, talking to Chrissy Cowley. She's one of Cheryl Shepard's old workmates from the Tim Hortons at Cannon and Sanford. Chrissy's wayfish with brown hair, wears glasses, but takes them off for pictures. And I like how she doesn't hesitate to tell me what she knows.

She worked with Cheryl for about two years and calls the area where they were Cracktown. I'm 38 now and I used to work with Cheryl back when I was 18. We worked night shift. I was night shift and she was the donut decorator. Very sweet girl. I remember a few times because she had a lot of cysts that I had to prepare her donuts for her because she had to come in late

because the cysts were bothering her. Worked with her for a few years. I went off on maternity leave for a year, and then when I came back, she was still there, still doing donut finishing. We used to talk quite a bit about life in general. I remember her talking to me in the past about her past um as you know she was used to be a dancer uh she had quit doing that years before starting tim hortons so i know that it was said in the media that he was dropping her

off at a strip club she hasn't worked there she didn't work there and it was been years since then um how do you know that how do you know that how do i know she told me she told me she used to be a dancer and she stopped doing it and i believed her i had no reason not to believe her and she worked i mean the donut finisher used to come in about three four in the morning and do the donuts so and she was always happy and she just seemed so happy but her boyfriend was always around like he was always happy, and she just seemed so happy, but her boyfriend was always around. He was always in the store. He was waiting for her after. He was strange. I never really liked him. Here, Chrissy is referring to Michael Lavoie.

And did you observe him yourself sitting in the store and waiting in Tim Hortons? Yeah, I saw him in there waiting. And did you ever speak to Michael Lavoie? No. Did you ever maybe witness a conversation that Michael Lavoie might have had with Cheryl while at work? No. No, they didn't talk in front of me.

Did Cheryl ever mention to you that she was upset with Michael's presence at work or upset that he had been hanging around or anything? No, but it was a bothersome to some of the other staff members that he was there quite a bit. Like, this is going back a long time, so to some of the other staff members that he was there quite a bit. Like, this is going back a long time, so I'm trying to remember back, but he was there quite a bit, hanging out.

He was kept to himself, though. He stayed in the corner and drank coffee and kept to himself. Did you see the on-TV presentation where Michael Lavoie proposed to her? I asked you to mirror me, Cheryl. Yes. Oh, you saw it? I did see it.

On television? I did. And what did you think Oh, you saw it? I did see it. On television? I did. And what did you think while you were watching it? Wow. I didn't think that was going to happen. Were you surprised when she said yes? No, not really, because it seemed like she loved him. I mean, from what I could tell, like I said, we didn't really talk about him,

but he picked her up, he dropped her off. They seemed to she loved him. I mean, from what I could tell, like I said, we didn't really talk about him, but he picked her up, he dropped her off. They seemed to like each other, like they seemed to have a connection, but I didn't know them that well as a couple either. Chrissy has stayed in touch with Odette over the years, one of a handful of Cheryl's friends and workmates who have, helping with periodic poster campaigns, there's now a $50,000 reward, and offering Odette the support that phone calls and words can. I still need to find people who knew Cheryl better, though. Close or even intimate friends. So Cheryl, when she stripped, she may have had various pseudonyms that she stripped under.

Do you know of any other names she used when she was doing that? Just one name, Blondie. Blondie. And whether she used that on the stage, I don't know. Okay. Do you know if Cheryl stripped anywhere other than in Hamilton? St. Catharines. I don't know about any place that she stripped in Hamilton. Oh, so she did all of her stripping outside of Hamilton.

As far as I... The best I can recollect would be St. Catharines only, as far as I know. And why would she choose down there, do you think, if she's living there? Probably just because she's closer to me, I guess. Clyde Phillips is built like a linebacker, and he's crammed himself into my passenger seat on a very hot day with seemingly all the time in the world for Cheryl, whom he often refers to in the present tense.

This is our second interview together, and we've met in a mutually agreed Hamilton parking lot. He's pulled his gleaming Harley motorcycle up close by. Clyde says he currently acts in films, but that he used to be a bodyguard and own a doorman security company, all part of an oblique past that he says he cannot reveal for fear it might encroach on the privacy of some of his previous associates. Clyde says he met Cheryl in the late 1980s and that any dancing he refers to here happened around

that time and into the early 90s when Cheryl was in her late teens and early 20s. And so you witnessed her stripping in St. Catharines? I would never go witness her stripping. Oh. No. So that's important to know. Yeah, no, that wouldn't have been something I could handle. I actually really liked her and I would have been probably over-jealous to be sitting in a strip bar seeing somebody,

whatever, anything. So, no, I would never go see her strip. Is it a stretch to think that Cheryl might have stripped in Niagara Falls at some point in her life? Like I said, I couldn't even speculate because I never asked any questions about her history in that, about how long or about how much or how much she made or didn't make or nothing, really. Yeah, no, I don't think I was ever particularly interested in her history there.

I owned a hotel. Well, I was part owner of a hotel in Niagara Falls at the time. And me and my brother were in partners with some people that I can't mention. So I was pretty busy. I was extremely busy. And my days were like 16 to 18 hours every day. We were basically, I guess we were the best, what people today would say, friends with benefits. So, but she was a great girl. We had a great connection.

We became extremely close. We became physically close. We became emotionally bonded to a huge degree and mutually, as far as I can tell. And I'm sure it was mutual. And yeah, we would have, basically, we would have died for each other. For sure. Clyde drifts in and out of his reverie about Cheryl as if trying to work out if she's really actually gone. He was interviewed by police at the time of Cheryl's disappearance and discounted as a suspect, but I'm still interested in him. My first meeting with Clyde was at Odette's place a few weeks back. Any phone call to Cheryl, anytime, anywhere, and she hops right up.

Boom. She's not a problem. She was there for me. She took the kids. She loves my kids, took care of them like they were her own. And off I went to work. That's a small indication of the way Cheryl is sacrificial in the way she deals with everybody in her life. And I mean everybody. She had a big heart.

She adopts everybody's children. She adopts strays. And I mean people. She's just that wonderful an individual. Later, Clyde mentions Cheryl's temper in passing and I probe a bit more because it's the first time I've heard about it. Her anger is like this part of her. And that's a small part you just indicated. A very small part like she is like she has a temper that surfaces for like 30 seconds.

Her forgiveness is almost immediate. She was a tiny girl. So we laughed many, many times about when she's been angry at me. And she's come up and kind of did the beat on my chest kind of thing. She wouldn't even hit you in the face if, you know what I mean? Like if, no matter how angry she was, she would beat on my chest and I'd start laughing at her and then we'd be hugging and it's a big loss for the entire city.

I mean, again, we all have pasts and I really don't care about those pasts. What I care is about the person that I see in front of me each and every day. And she's a person that I would have loved to seen in front of me each and every day. As a matter of fact, one of my biggest regrets is that I believe that I should have smartened up and that I should have kept her close to me because she talked a lot about you to my parents she was going to bring you down to meet them but they're both gone now. I should've married her. She was my best, best friend, period. Male or female.

Sorry. So, Mike, have you ever spoken to Mike? Yeah. I just wanted an answer. It's been so long. Michael, I didn't trust the guy. Didn't like the guy didn't like the guy and every bit of information I found out about his relationship with her made me dislike him more

and more and more I was not privy to any details about what went on between the two of them but I could tell just by her demeanor and the things that she would say that it was not a good relationship. She felt she loved him, but she didn't like him.

So we weren't in touch all the time at this period so i mean i saw her sporadically uh heard from her sporadically because i again i was in a relationship and things were moving in a positive direction all the way around the next day i heard from her she was in need of a car and I gave her my car I gave her a Buick I think it was a regal yeah the white car yeah so and I said that's for you like I was definitely not keen on him having any part of that car and later on I heard that basically he had commandeered the car too, like he commandeered

the rest of her life. Police say that nothing of forensic interest was found in the two vehicles Michael had access to. An 86 Ford Econoline van and Cheryl's 86 white Buick Regal. Car insurance papers renewed in November 1997, a month before Cheryl disappeared,

show Michael Lavoie to be the sole named driver of both vehicles. They were registered to a Stratford, Ontario address, a town over 100 kilometres away from Hamilton. Lavoie used to live in Stratford and had ties there, and I'll be looking into that. Registering cars in a different town is sometimes done to save money in a cheaper jurisdiction. Odette says that Michael told her that Cheryl had signed over ownership of her white Buick to him, the very Buick that Clyde gave her

and that Michael was found unconscious in. Tell me about any kinds of interactions you've had with Michael. I've seen him three times that I can totally recall. Twice my security guys had to hold me, and that was like seven or eight guys. I seriously had no concern for jail time or anything of that nature. I would have took care of him. And he tried to say to me,

I don't know why you're so mad at me. I didn't do anything. And I said, really? So why did you try to kill yourself? You don't know anything. You don't know anything. And then, like I said, I was ready to... Anyway, they got rid of him.

One more time he passed by a bar I was at and almost the same scenario took place. No words exchanged. Third time I saw him was up at Speedy Muffler before it became Green and Ross up on Upper James. He was doing deliveries, so he would deliver parts, guess for whatever and when I saw him it was the guys that work there that basically talked me down so it's not worth it just let the the police do their job. And I told him who he was and what I knew and suspected.

And he left, and I've never seen him since. Clyde's anger and regret and even guilt are palpable, and he seems as open and sincere as he does convinced that Michael Lavoie had something to do with Cheryl's disappearance. It's a conviction that doesn't seem like it's going anywhere soon, but it's important to note that Michael Lavoie maintains that he had nothing to do with Cheryl's disappearance. Was there ever any other suspect in your mind that could have done something to Sheryl?

Other than Michael Lavoie. Not really. One percent. One percent would have been, who I've never met, so I can't really malign him whatsoever, would have been this person that I know of as Keeper. One percent. Keeper. Nin percent. Keeper. 99% Mike.

Keith Dale, or Keeper as he was nicknamed, was Cheryl's first husband. They married and then divorced after only a few months together in August 1992, when Cheryl would have been 23. I found out about him just before Clyde arrived. Yeah, well, the guy that Cheryl was married to, and she didn't stay married to, I found out about him just before Clyde arrived. Apparently they made some beer or whatever. Oh, a homebrew, yeah. Yeah, whatever.

And he was apparently drunk, and there was guys playing cards at the table, and he hit the table. And was he alive at the time of Cheryl's disappearance? Or had he died before Cheryl disappeared? You know what, that I don't know. I don't know about that. And where did he...

I could find Betty. Betty married him after, and she had a child. But Cheryl said to her, she said, he is very, very abusive because he broke Cheryl's army. Keith. Keith. So Keith is Cheryl's first husband. Yeah.

Keith Keeper Dale was Cheryl's first husband, but later in the mid-90s, after divorcing Keith, Cheryl married another man named David Brian Sweeney, who goes by Brian. They officially divorced on May 14, 1997, just seven months before Cheryl disappeared. Cheryl was married to him. She broke off with him.

And then that's when she met Mike through his sister. So, just back up. So Brian Sweeney was Cheryl's ex-husband. That's right. And they were divorced. Divorced, yes. And Keith broke Cheryl's arm.husband. That's right. And they were divorced. Divorced, yes. And Keith broke Cheryl's arm. Yeah, yeah. Wow. And how long were they married for? Not long, not long. So was Keith,

you don't know if Keith was even alive at the time Cheryl disappeared? You know what, Betty would be able to. And then Betty married Keith? Yeah, yeah. Okay. So Keith, Keeper Dale, Brian Sweeney, and then Michael Lavoie. Cheryl was apparently attracted to men who already had children since she couldn't have some of her own, according to Odette. All of these men seem to be friends or know each other. I want to find out about these ex-husbands and dig deeper into Cheryl's past to talk to more of her friends. So for now, we'll leave Chrissy and Clyde and get on the road with Odette, heading toward Hamilton. We drive by some sunny fields with round bales of hay, and as we get closer to the highway,

I notice Odette quietly dabbing at her eyes with a tissue. It hurts. It hurts, believe me, because I miss her so much. You know? But when I went to... took time off work and I went to the psychiatrist, we talked about it and she said the best thing to do, you know, to don't hold that inside of you, she said you got to talk about it because it's going to, you know, drive you hard when you know you carry her for nine months and you see her growing up you know you see stuff like that on tv in the paper you know you never never dream it would ever happen to you, you know.

Because Cher would not hurt anybody. I could see if she was a violent person, get in trouble. Mind you, you know, when she was in Florida, I mean, she got just minor things, you know, like she didn't tell me, you know, because she knew I would be worried about her going to Florida. You know, she got a convertible car with the top down. It was in the summer, you know, and she sat in the back of it, you know, looking at people. And she took her top off, you know, she got fined for that, you know, like minor things, you know. Had Cheryl ever been in trouble with the law before, like been charged or convicted? No, not that I know, no, no.

A search of courthouse documents reveals that Cheryl had a single charge for possession of stolen property under $5,000 in July of 96 and was convicted with recommended probation for 18 months and community service. It's unclear whether Cheryl served any time, but I'd like to find out. And was Cheryl involved with any drugs that you know of or alcohol? She had her own drinks, you know, but no, that I don't know. I have no idea. But when you lived with her, did you ever witness her using drugs? No, no.

There was never even beer in the house. And did you witness Michael drinking or using drugs? That, even that, no, no. As we make our way into Hamilton, Odette becomes noticeably more anxious, more upright in her seat, clutching the door handle, sweat actually on her brow. You go into Hamilton regularly? Maybe once a week. Okay.

Yeah. Since I moved here, I'm not too keen on Hamilton. Yeah. You know, it's too much bad memory right now. What kind of a place did you remember Hamilton to be when you were living here? Oh, scary. I never went out alone, never, at nighttime. She relaxes a bit as we approach one of her old neighbourhoods.

Okay, at the light you turn left. Cumberland. That's where we lived for years. That's the French school, Notre Dame. That's where the two girls went to school. Right here. Cheryl went to school there? Yeah, Notre Dame. That's when the two girls went to school, right here. Cheryl went to school there? Yeah. Notre Dame Catholic School. Right down below the escarpment, there's the escarpment right up there.

Yeah. Wow. They had to take the school bus to come here, right? And there's the train track right next to the school. So the escarpment is basically what forms Niagara Falls further down. That's right, yes. And this is Norway. That was my father's house right here in the corner.

This house here. Wow, so you have real history in this town. Didn't have the fence there, didn't have the bushes there. It's all changed, eh? And the French church is over here in Notre Dame. It's kind of a French community here? Yeah, oh, there's a lot of French around here, lots. That's why he got married, the kid's father.

Cheryl's father was a steelworker at the former Stelco plant at the time of her birth. But Odette says he was also an alcoholic and very abusive. He was never on the scene to help raise Cheryl or her sister Sheila, and he lived several hours away at the time of her disappearance. So tell me about Cheryl's father at the time of Cheryl's disappearance. Where was he? Soussane Marie. Oh, okay. Where was he? Sousa Marie. Okay. He was remarried.

I see. I had to phone and let him know what's happening, that Cheryl's missing. And the police have been there to take the blood test too. The same thing with my mother. I had to phone my sister. I said, you better break the blood test too. The same thing with my mother. I had to phone my sister. I said, you better bring the news to mom. And she had to take her to the doctor. She took it pretty bad.

Was he your ex-husband at that time then? Yeah. And did he come down? He was remarried. No, he did not come down, no, no. The police went there, you know, and they took the blood sample from him, DNA. He passed away a couple of years ago, about three years ago. I guess his, before, when

he was dying, that's what he wanted. He wanted to know if, you know, like, where's Cheryl, you know, like what happened? Did they find her? Nothing, you know. He was hoping to be able to get the news before he passed on. He died of cancer. And you separated with him because you say he was a drinker. Yeah, and he couldn't hold a job. He quit his job at Stelco. He had a good job, but he was a violent when he was drinking. All his money was going on booze,

and I was the only one that was supporting everything, the rent and the grocery and all that. And because we were separated, I had to, you know, go on welfare because I had no other income, you know, after that, because I had to, I just had a new baby. And I made a mistake, you know, like when I had Sheena, I thought by, I went back with him a couple times, I thought by having another child, it would make it better, you know, it made it worse. We're nearing a row of apartment buildings on Queenston Road.

Number 851 is where Odette lived with Cheryl at the time of Cheryl's disappearance. There's a lot of apartments on Queenston here. Yeah, yeah. But it's on the other side of Highway 20, the third building on the left-hand side. It's all changed. Used to be Zeller's.

The Dollar Tree was not there when I lived here. It's all changed here now, eh? So it's this one over here? Yes. The bingo used to be up there, eh? We used to just walk over there, eh? Right in that building. Yeah, yeah.

But it's not there no more. A lot of bingo's closed. So this one here is the actual building yes so when you came home on Sunday January 4th this is where you came home to yes 851 Queenston now we're just driving back behind it's a brick building it's kind of got that faux brick with the kind of designed brick and it's very very plain boxy.

We're in the back of the building here. Let's just stop and we'll get out and walk. Okay. Okay, so where are we now? Okay. This is the back of the building where I lived. And we lived on the seventh floor. Seventh floor right there. This is the apartment right there we lived. So we're counting from the bottom. That's one or that's one. Okay so one two. And do it. Walk out. Thanks. It's set. Right there.

So three balconies down. Yeah and the first window here was my bedroom. And that was Cheryl's bedroom over there. I see. Yeah. She had the biggest bedroom because she had a queen-size bedroom set. It was on the corner of the building? Yes. Okay, let's just walk around over here. It's kind of windy here.

Basically in the back parking lot of 851 Queenston Road. And there's a back door here. Where does that back door go to? Oh, that's not ours. But is that a staircase? I guess. I don't know. I don't know. I never use the back door, never. But that is a back door that leads out into the parking lot.

It would be, yeah. So if anybody had parked back here, they could have come out that back door. That's right. Without having... Never thought of that. We leave 851 Queenston, but I'll be back in another episode to talk to some of the people inside. It's helpful for me to have Odette along on as much of this investigation as possible. Not only is she a great travelling companion, but she constantly remembers things about the case by being on the location. But sometimes it isn't always possible to be together. On a previous trip to Hamilton,

for example, Odette wasn't present when I tracked down one of Cheryl's friends, Pamela Branton, at the big box store where she works. Pamela and her identical twin sister Paula were close friends with Cheryl and spent time with her when she was with both of her former husbands, as well as with Michael Lavoie. This is going to sound weird to you. You're Pamela Branton? Odette Fisher told me that you worked here. She said you'd be a great person to talk to about her daughter. Yeah, because we couldn't figure out how to get, like I sent you a Facebook message.

I worked for CBC and she said you were a great friend of hers. One of the accepted hazards of trying to find people in investigations like this over the past several years is the rise of unlisted cell phones and addresses. So sometimes directly approaching people at their workplaces is the only way to get in touch with them. And I'm a firm believer in the face-to-face instead of a telephone wherever possible. so I could give you my card, or do you have a break? We could even come back at 8? I don't know what you're... After we begin. Okay, great. Pamela seemed eager to help,

so I scheduled a meeting with her for an evening after work. Now to see Betty. And Odette's back with me here. Go over here. Betty married Keith Keeper Dale after Cheryl, and she knows Brian Sweeney, Cheryl's second husband. Odette and I drive to her house and walk up together. Where did you meet Betty?

To Cheryl. And I'll touch his dog. Hi, Betty here. What kind of dog are you? But they're alright. So, keep them on. Are you sure? Okay. Okay, stop yappies. Thank you so much, Betty. Are you sure? Okay. Betty, medium height and build and owner of two aging chihuahuas, leads us into her kitchen.

We sit down at a table and she begins talking immediately. One of the chihuahuas, whose name is Chester, seems agitated, so I take him onto my lap and he remains there for the duration of our interview. Chester has no teeth and his tongue keeps poking out of his mouth, giving the impression that he's constantly trying to lick a phantom something just out of reach. Tell me about Cheryl. The way I met Cheryl was through Keeper. She used to be married to Keeper, which was my boyfriend, which is the father of my two kids. She was his ex-wife, and I was cool with that. I mean, I had no threat of her or anything. I mean, she was with his best

friend, Brian. So when we hung out, we hung up as couples, you know, and we were friends and we hung out at Tim Hortons all the time. We'd chat and stuff, but Cheryl was always on and off with Brian and Mike, Brian and Mike. So when she was with Brian, we'd talk, we'd hang out and stuff. Did you ever witness Mike Lavoie being violent in any way towards Cheryl? I've never seen them really together. If I saw them together, they would pull up to Tim Hortons. Cheryl would get out of the car, probably grab the coffee or something, and then she'd be in the car and off she'd go. So you really didn't get to see much of Cheryl when she was with Mike. It was more or less like he was keeping her all to herself. She wasn't allowed to really talk to us.

Paint a picture of Cheryl for me because you knew her as a friend. She was very loving. I mean I remember us going to Marineland and of course I was due to have my baby at that time and she was the one because I couldn't walk anymore she's the one that was pushing me in a wheelchair so other than that, I mean, it was, she was fun to be with. I mean, I went with her a couple times out and we went drinking, but I mean, we always had a good time.

She was down to earth, very nice, you know, caring. Like I said, you know, she came to the hospital to see my daughter. She loved kids. And then, of course, Tammy, you know, she took in this girl and pretty much adopted her and she betrayed her and, I mean. Tammy girl and pretty much adopted her. Yeah. She betrayed her and, I mean. Tammy betrayed Cheryl.

Cheryl. Okay. Yeah. How so? She ended up with her ex-husband and had a child. Tammy ended up with Brian, sweetie? Yeah. And had a child?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there was a big fight over that. There was some fists flying and stuff going on. And I think that ended up at the beach with the pepper spray. I think Cheryl ended up in the hospital. The police were all at fault.

Cheryl had a foster child previous to marrying Brian named Tammy. Cheryl brought Tammy into her home as a teen. She didn't want to have a foster baby, Odette says, for fear of getting too attached. After Cheryl and Brian split, Brian had a child with Tammy, thus spurring the pepper spray incident when Cheryl found out. Keep in mind that Betty was not present at this incident and that her recounting is based on what she has heard about it from others. And I think the worst part was because this girl that she grew, pretty much raised, Tammy, you know, she found out that

they were having a relationship, Brian and her, which they did have a child together, right? But when she found out, she lost it. One, you know what, that's supposed to be like your stepdad that's right two it's like how could you i'm supposed to be your mother and so you know it was just like you know bats were coming out of the car and then you know it's one of these things where people are holding her back and then of course it spiraled down to the beach and that's when pepper spray started going nuts and i mean at that point i was not there i just knew because i had stayed back at tim hortons and that's when i found out and i think it's because she saw the two of them in the car together brian and tammy so it was in situations like that she wasn't a violent

person to say you know what she just wanted to go around beating people or she was like the boss or just a big bully no she had a reason to be mad at those times. When she would spiral out of control, she had a legitimate reason. But if she just didn't, more or less, like if she just didn't want to put up with your bullshit, you knew within seconds. Like she wouldn't even give you a forewarning. As for Mike, I haven't talked to anyone, even like in the past year, because I've been quite isolating myself. But I haven't talked to anyone that has talked to anyone even like in the past year because I've been quite isolating myself but I haven't talked to anyone that has talked to Mike or knows what Mike's doing I don't think anyone really talks to Mike McCoy Mike was just an outcast and he had the odd few people that he

had as a clerk but he was more or less like a loner Mike was he was very I took him as a very strange type of person and I mean know, we all have our faults. We weren't all perfect. And it was, we all hung around a rough crowd. Like, we really did hang around a rough crowd. How so, like, in a general way? Can you tell me? What do you mean by that?

Well, I mean, he was always in and out of jail, you know, for assaults or whatever it was. Like, I mean, you know, he was in jail because, you know, he had beat up a bunch of cops at the Ticat game being all drunk with his brother, you know, for assaults or whatever it was. Like, I mean, you know, he was in jail because, you know, he had beat up a bunch of cops at the Ticac game being all drunk with his brother, you know. It's just like, you know, Tommy got... The idea of Cheryl running with a rough crowd keeps surfacing with every interview, from the various criminal charges and the anecdotal stories to the vagueness that emerges when subjects try to hide elements

from their pasts to avoid scrutiny. So did you ever speak to Mike about this case? After Cheryl disappeared, the day I was supposed to go in for my interview with the police, because I got questioned as well, I had run into Mike, he was at the bank. And he wasn't even an insta teller. He was just an updater book. And he had Cheryl's car. And he walked in. And I just was like, Oh, crap, you know, so I got in the car. And I said to keep her says, Oh, my God, I says, You know what I says, Mike's in the bank, you see him? And he's like, No, I didn't. And I says, Well, there's Cheryl's car. Right? And he goes, I wonder what he's up to. I says, well, I don't know. I says, but we better

head down to the police station because we're running late. When we got down there, when the detective was asking me questions, I had said to him, I said, actually, I said, I just ran into Mike. It just happened to be that that's the day that they found Mike in the storage. So I'm not certain what Mike was doing at the bank just hours before he was found in the storage so I'm not certain what Mike was doing at the bank just hours before he was found in the storage locker but I wonder if there's a connection I'll ask police to see if they know anything so um that day I didn't confront him I was just kind of like you know what stay clear away from him and then I would say months after the fact maybe even a year I was working at the coffee shop and he came in

and I was actually afraid because I'm like, you know, what's he doing here, right? But I didn't confront him. I didn't say nothing. I just felt, you know what? I'm just going to ignore him because the only thing that was ever said, and I can't remember where I was.

I think it was probably at Tim Hortons that someone had said that Mike had said what he had done with her. And I don't know if I've ever told you, but I'm kind of afraid to mention it to you. What happened? Go ahead. From what I understand, the rumor is that no one will ever find Cheryl's body because he put her through a wood chipper. He what? He put her through a wood chipper.

What's that? A wood chipper where you chop wood with. It's a rumor, right? Yeah, yeah. It does not mean that's exactly what happened. And this is why it's like I'm not saying it. I'm just saying that's the only thing I've ever heard. and automatic acceptance. If you have the desire to learn, AU is a great option. Open your options

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so you can let your potential shine. Through our wide range of programs and services, you can turn on confidence, turn on connections, turn on possibilities. Visit our website to see what you can achieve at the YMCA. This will be the day. Violent, lurid speculation often travels quickly in the wake of disappearances

as people try to fill the informational gaps. In season one, five-year-old Adrian McNaughton was supposedly nailed to the bottom of a boat, proven false. In another case I worked in the American South, two African Americans were allegedly sawed in half by the Klan in a lumber mill using a giant circular saw. This too proved to be false, but their actual murder at the hands of the Klan was even more brutal. Odette, while initially wide-eyed, seems to take Betty's words in stride, recognizing them for what they are, which is rumor, unproven, unfact. Still, the informational lines are important to keep track of.

Where did the rumor start? And where did you hear that, or how did that rumor come to you? It was years and years ago. Like, I mean, it was probably a couple years after the fact that it was mentioned. I can't remember who said it, because it's been so long ago. But it was because it was a rumor that was going around in jail. My thoughts move back to Brian Sweeney. Betty and others have said that Cheryl was always on and off again with Brian, going back and forth between him and Michael Lavoie.

So you feel like Brian was excluded as a suspect? Oh, Brian did a lie detector test. Yeah. He went ahead and he did a lie detector test and he passed and um but in the beginning there was constant rumors that you know there was tips coming in and saying oh i saw uh they saw cheryl get into a red car well brian had a red car at that time so everything that was making the tips that were coming in whoever was making them was making it seem like it was brian so that's when brian took it upon himself and said, you know, I'm not getting blamed for this one. I'm going to show that I'm innocent.

And he did, and he went and got a light tetra test. Police confirmed that Brian Sweeney voluntarily took a polygraph and passed. The story of paranoia on Brian's part that he was somehow being set up for Cheryl's disappearance continues with a story about a trailer owned by Brian's part that he was somehow being set up for Cheryl's disappearance continues with a story about a trailer owned by Brian's family. Brian's mother Dorothy began to wonder if they shouldn't search the trailer to make sure that someone hadn't put Cheryl's body there to frame Brian.

And of course anything is you know possible so we actually went we got a little group of people and we went out to that trailer to go and search it and it's funny because keeper was the first one to go in it and he had put gloves on to open the doors just in case that was the case we weren't messing around with any evidence so that the police can deal with it um and the day that i went in for my interview the detective said oh i understand that you guys went they knew that we were there they were watching us no way yeah they watched us because he said and then he said he goes why did he put gloves on i said well the reason why he put gloves on is because just in

case there was evidence if she was there and i told him i said you know what it was starting to look like brian was being framed for this disappearance so we wanted to make make sure. And even the detectives had said to me, is there any possible way that Keeper could have done it? I'm like, you know what? It wasn't Keeper because Keeper was with me. We just had a baby together. And I mean, we've been all together. I said, I would know if my partner had left the house.

And he had nothing against Cheryl. They were married at one time. And they were really young. It didn't work out, and that's it. What was the relationship between Cheryl and Keeper like during the marriage, though? I don't know. I didn't know at that time. You didn't ask about it or talk about it? All I know is that they were very young.

She worked as a stripper. He was a bouncer at the strip club. They decided to get married, and it was just the spur of the moment. I mean, like Keeper said, he goes, I was always drunk, which I believe it because he did have a drinking problem. So, and I mean, Cheryl, well, I mean, I really don't know her reasonings for marrying them, but it was always up and down, and he just said that it was just,

they were just too young. They should never have done it from my understandings keeper died in prison right keeper had gone to prison um for bne's um he also had gone because he did um beat me um so we had a rough relationship but it it was always on and off, on and off. And, you know, I would have taken him in a heartbeat if, you know, he had gotten out. But he had gone to the pen and he had, I guess they had home brew there. I used to work at many of the federal penitentiaries in Kingston, Ontario, teaching basic computer skills and English in my younger days.

They were all ancient, bricked, grim, dank, and claustrophobic, and making alcoholic brew in your cells out of pretty much any kind of fermented vegetable or fruit was an inmate art form. The story was that he had some brew and then fell off. He had some homebrew, and the story is that he had fallen 50 feet off the railing. So when the coronary inquest came out, I wasn't able to make it because I had my son. But when they had come to the conclusion that the railings were below average and Keeper was very tall. So he lost his balance and went over the railing. below average and keeper was very tall oh so he lost his balance and went over the railing no suspicion that it was a push no apparently his friend was there when

it happened and it just was it just he lost his balance and i myself i'm confident enough to say that i believe that that's what happened because i've seen him drunk many times and he would not hold his balance he would just be wobbling be wobbling and just fall over and stuff. So I know for a fact that that's very possible. After his nighttime fall from the range at around 10.30 p.m., Keeper was reportedly taken to Kingston General Hospital. He lasted for 12 hours before succumbing to his injuries, dying at 3 a.m. on June 22, 2001. There was

speculation at the time that there could have been foul play, but a coroner's inquest ruled the death accidental. Police say that at the time of Sheryl's disappearance, Keeper was excluded as a suspect, but I still want to look into him further, as well as Brian Sweeney, who also goes by Brian Lewis. What about Brian? Is he still around? Is he still alive? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Is he close to Mike still? No, they do not like each other. But as for Brian, whether talking to him or not, I'm not 100% sure. I mean, I could very well probably message him and ask him how he feels about talking about it and see what he says. But I personally, knowing Brian, I don't think he will. Brian is an obvious meeting that I will be attempting in the future. Cheryl divorced him, then later Brian had a child with Cheryl's foster teen, Tammy.

And then Brian got together with Michael Lavoie's sister, Tracy. Together they had children, but are now reportedly separated. I'm not quite ready to meet with that whole group just yet. The only other person that can probably say something that spoke to Cheryl just briefly before she did disappear would be Paula. Paula is Pamela's twin sister. I'll be meeting Pamela at the end of her shift. Because again, you've got all these people that are all kind of in some way related. So you've got Brian's ex-wife, Tracy, who's Mike's sister. You've got all these people

that's like a big circle of family all together with each other. So you've got Mike Lavoie's brother with Brian's sister. So I mean, it's just like a vicious family circle. But you've got so much that people tell you that it's hard to know. Like, I mean, again, it's like. So, I mean, it's just like a vicious family circle. But you've got so much that people tell you that it's hard to know. Like, I mean, again, it's like I said, when I hear things, it's kind of hard to say, is this truth or is this a rumor? And where's the source of it?

And like six people say the same thing, it doesn't make it true, right? Like it's what's the source and it all goes back to one person who is making it up anyway, right? That's right. We have to be very careful. Betty has one more story that she says she personally experienced that could be of interest. Here, she refers to the landlord at 851 Queenston Road, where Cheryl and Odette lived at the time of Cheryl's disappearance. Betty apparently lived in the same building sometime later. Even the landlord, when I spoke to him, you know, he was saying that, you know,

he saw Mike carrying out garbage bags. And he said to him, you know, what are you doing? And he says, oh, I'm going to be doing laundry. And he says, well, Cheryl usually does the laundry. You know, like, where's she? Oh, she's sick. And he's like, well, why aren't you using this laundromat down here? Because it was right in the basement where the underground is.

Because I lived a couple floors underneath her and um he said oh no there's just too much i'm going to do it the laundromat okay well i mean when was that when did that happen before you turn around and uh and uh had her reported missing the landlord remembered that before her disappearance and he said he goes before she disappeared like her mom had reported just you know missing he goes I remember Mike coming down with two garbage bags. What was in the garbage bags he doesn't know he said that he saw him struggling with these two bags and he asked him like what are you doing and he says oh I'm going to do laundry. So again it's like I just there's just a whole bunch of other little bits,

you know, that doesn't make sense. What was the landlord's name? I can't remember his name. I don't even know if he's there. Because I haven't heard that before. That's new to me. I need to track down this landlord and talk to him about Betty's garbage bag story.

It could be nothing, but I have to check. Depending on the date, it's important. I mean, if it was a year before, it doesn't matter. No, it was days before you reported her missing. But I mean, and I remember a lot of this stuff because it still runs through my mind, you know. But you know what, Betty? I hope one day I do find her and remain, put her at rest.

Well, I think that a lot of people want that. In a couple of weeks, well six weeks from now, I'm going to be 70 years old. You know, I'm not getting younger. And I just want to put her at rest, you know. Find out what really happened to her. It's hard to accept that i keep saying it's the last question but this really is a lot of that's okay so since you knew keeper in fact you were married to keeper um and keeper was a bouncer at the place or places where cheryl used to strip do you have any knowledge of when cheryl stopped dancing cheryl didn't dance

for from when i knew her, she had stopped dancing. She wasn't dancing. She had no need to dance. So when did you get to know her? I'm going to have to say somewhere around 1995, maybe. Okay. So maybe around then, because again, i only met her through keeper hanging out with brian and so she would you to your knowledge she didn't dance from the time you knew her until the

time she disappeared no okay so that would have been two or three years period she had no need to to dance there was there's other things going on that she had no need to dance there was money coming in she was working at Tim Hortons there was really no need for her to have to go down that route and you're her mom you would know whether she was in there she was quite close with you you guys very close I don't think there's anything that she would have done that you wouldn't have known of she told me a thing about the things I would say I don't want to hear that part you know because it was personal things in her life you know and another thing that when the police did the search there 10 years she had a lot of the condoms in the house and she said she was being

safe because she didn't trust Mike so and the police said to me he said well I think she was being safe because she didn't trust Mike. So, and the police said to me, he said, well, I think she was protected. She was protecting herself with that. I do not believe that story for one second. I mean, when I heard that, you know, he had dropped her off at a strip bar so that she could go to work, I thought, you know what, that's so you know I cannot I'm sorry but I mean this would be the first dead giveaway that this story is a force is because how does a very protective man that doesn't allow you to talk to your friends doesn't let you go and hang out the coffee shop that you hang out with allows you to go to a bar, go strip off your clothes and leaves you there

and drives away. How is that even possible? How, where did that change come from in a split second that now you trust her to go and take off her clothes, have guys all over you, you know, and just leave her there and not think twice that she's gonna go home with someone, but yet you can't go and have coffee with your friends. Well, thanks very much for all your time. Oh, you're very welcome. I appreciate it.

We'll get together, you and I, and have a coffee. Yes. I'd like to take a picture of this guy. Is that okay? Oh, yeah. On my lap? Oh, yeah, sure. Go ahead. Betty wouldn't let me take her picture like I try to do with all the people I speak to. So I take a picture of Chester the Chihuahua on my lap

and give him a few parting scratches. Why are you up just there? Yeah, we're just heading in a late-day interview to see if we can catch up with Pamela Branton at the place where she works. And Pamela and her twin sister both knew Cheryl very well. Apparently Pam is going to meet us near the propane tanks. I don't see a propane tank of any sort over there.

Oh unless they're right there in that beige thing there. Is that her there? That's her. There she is. She's right here. Oh, sorry, we're late. Another parking lot, another interview. The way I work it, the subject usually dictates where we meet, where they're most comfortable.

But the sound quality near the propane tanks is a bit iffy, so we move into my car. Pamela, you can go get in the front over on the other side there. Oh, yeah? Haven't seen you forever. How long has it been since you guys saw each other? 19 years. 18 years. So how did you meet Cheryl? Like how did you know Cheryl? She went out with my dad. Yeah. She went out with my dad. Cheryl went out with your dad? My sister's more of my sister's friend than me, right? Closer to my sister. What's her dad's name?

Bill. Bill. He knows a lot about her, probably. Well, I don't know. Yeah, he might do something because he likes Cheryl. Yeah. He's always been nice to her. He's always helped her out and stuff.

Been nice to her. Had her on the bike. Yeah. I know he scratched she scratched his his tank, his Harley. Yeah. The tank with her with her shoe when we all went for a bike ride. Yeah. He didn't even care. He didn't even get mad at her. He gets mad at everyone. He never got mad at her. He would never get mad at her.

He loves Cheryl. She's awesome. It would be useful to talk to Pam's dad to find out more about Cheryl's younger years. So Cheryl was a friend of yours and your sister's. And just tell me in what capacity were you guys friends? My sister was more her friend than mine. And I don't know, they used to go out and ask me to babysit all the time. She's like, babysit for your sister so we can go out and stuff so my sister got mad at

me and hung up on me today because she don't want no one talking to her oh really yeah oh even about Cheryl right oh I wonder why do you think this is sort of uncertain as to why I want to do this or she's just like that oh yeah because it would be really great to you know it's really great to talk to someone who actually met Cheryl and actually knew her. There's a lot of people that I think. She's awesome. Because when that kid went missing around where my sister used to live on Wilson and Chestnut, she's like all over looking for this little one that's been missing. And then they found the little one. But she was like, she loves kids oh yeah tell

me about the the dancing stuff did you ever witness Cheryl dancing or no I never seen her dance but my sister would go to Niagara Falls with her they would go and dance and oh can you watch the kids for a little bit I'll be like well Paula takes off all the time so Cheryl would come down Pam can you watch the kids I said yeah for you anything off all the time, so Cheryl would come down. Pam, can you watch the kids? I said, yeah, for you, anything, I'll watch the kids. So I would always babysit while they go out. But I'd never ever seen that she would go and dance.

I don't know. When was that that they used to go do that? Was that, like... Long time. Like, long time before she disappeared, or... Way before that, yeah. And so when they went dancing in Niagara Falls, do you know where they would go? I don't know.

But it was Niagara Falls? Apparently it was, yes. And your sister used to dance with her? Yeah. Oh, okay. My gut says Paula might know something that could help this case, and Pamela says she'll ask her to talk to me.

But Pamela herself has a few things to say. Did you know any other names? But they didn't do that long. They didn't do that long at all. So, like, after that, then she started going out with Mike, and apparently she wasn't dancing or nothing yeah did you ever witness Cheryl be aggressive or violent or mean or call yelling or being upset I've never seen her be mean to anyone

no never never saw a temper sort of flare up or anything like that no okay well i mean what i'd like to know from your dad if he knows anything about mike and his i don't think he hung out with her after that it's like way before mike no that guy has no gang that guy's a loser i don't even know why she went out with that guy. Like I know Clyde, the one that used to go out with her. That guy's great. I think he should have stayed with her. This probably wouldn't have even happened.

That's right. Yeah. I don't know what she's seen in the guy, but everyone's different. I know she liked black guys. She went out with Clyde. And I'm thinking, okay, she went out with this guy, you know, Cheryl. And I'm like, okay, that's not like her. Tell me about Hamilton a little bit.

Just give me a description of what you think of the city and what Hamilton's like. Before it was good because everyone knows everyone. And everyone goes to the bars. They know the same people. The Gladstone, Boomers, Jockey Club. Everyone went to the Jockey Club. But when I go in there, when me and my sister went in there to the jockey club, why are you hanging around with that girl?

Like, why would you say that? Why are you hanging around with her? People would say that. Nice person. I never had a problem with her. She's a great person. People would say, why are you hanging around with Cheryl? Yeah.

So I don't know why. Maybe because she was dancing. I don't know. My sister used to dance, too, with her. So I don't know. I don't know why they'd say that. Interesting. Yeah.

It's fine. Sounds like you spent some good times with her, though. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Did you ever, like, when you went out with her her did she always come back with you guys or did she just go off on her own after a while see when she would go off on her own sometimes that i know of when i went out with her not come back kind of thing and just or just go off with someone else or would she hang out with you guys she would hang out with us

they would go dance i know my sister would go dance downtown and then she'd be like, okay, let's go. Let's go down to the bar. Let's go have a drink and we got to go back and I got to go dance again. So we go down to the Derby. And did they, when they were dancing? And then one time when she says, oh Pam, we got to go here. I said, why are we going here? Oh, well, I just got to make some money. What do you mean make money? They're like, why would you do this? Like, she would go to someone's house, make money, and then come back out.

I said, what did you do in there? Pam, you don't want to know what I do in there, but I make good money. So what do you mean? I said, well, I said, why don't you just work at like a normal place? She's like, no, I'm not used to that. I got to make money. This is Cheryl. Yeah.

So you think she was... I don't know what she was doing. So I'm like, what do you do in the house? No, you don't want to know. Don't worry. Let's go out for a few drinks. We'll be fine. That's all I know of her.

Here, the energy in the car changes as Odette hears for the first time that her daughter may have been a sex worker. Was she with Mike then, doing that? No. No, she wasn't with Mike. That would be before? Long before, yeah. So, yeah. no she wasn't with my that would be before long before yeah

so yeah you're like what would you do in that place like what do you do in there don't worry it's just um i make good money you don't want to know about it okay and then so i shut right up and we were on our way and having a good time. Anytime we went somewhere she had the nice high boots on gorgeous girl oh my god she would go out we would go play pool so you would never even think she'd even be like that to go to a house. I would wait outside and then she would, don't worry, give me about half an hour, 45 minutes, I'll be right out. Okay? I didn't have a clue. I don't know. And how many times would you have known?

Like she would, like, okay, well, she was in the bar, I'll be right back. And then she would come back later on. Did she have a pager, Cheryl? I can't remember. She might have. I don't know. How would she know where to go and things like that? Probably did then because we didn't have cell phones then. I don't know everything. I don't know. In fact, Cheryl did own a pager, and one can be

seen clipped to her side in one of the photographs Odette gave me to scan. But what use Cheryl put the pager to, or how long she had it, is unknown. Betty says that the group used pagers to send messages to each other, using the numbers to spell words, kind of like texting in code, but for fun was the implication. I look at Odette, who is sitting forward anxiously in the back seat. Had you ever known anything about that before? No, not at all. This is surprising. I just wonder how long that kind of stuff went on.

Yeah, way before Mike. We didn't know Mike then. Would it have been around Keeper's time? She always mentioned him, yeah. Probably around then. Because Keeper used to work in the strip clubs. He was a doorman in the strip bars. Around there, maybe.

Brian, the keeper, around that time. And then Clyde used to, ain't he, he's the manager for all the bouncers. He said he'd never seen her strip, Clyde. I've never seen her strip, neither. And your sister? Never. I don't know. My sister would go out with, oh, we got to go, we got to go to Niagara Falls. Yeah. So I don't know the whole thing, right?

But I know that she went to the houses. She took me to the Picton. I think it was not the Picton, but some barred, like, there was like, I think it was like by the Pier 4. But she took me in there one time. And it's like, they're all looking at me.

I'm like, like they're looking at me like, like I'm a hooker or something. And I'm like, I don't want to be in this bar. It was like that kind of bar in there. Yeah, yeah. I didn't like them kind of bars. But, oh, we got to go in here for a minute. She comes walking through, walking in. She knew all about the place.

I don't know. My sister, me and my sister walk. Pam, don't talk to no one in here. Trust me. Let's just walk in and walk right back out. Cheryl, let's go do something. We got to leave. I don't know.

She had to talk to someone, and then we left right away. What bar was that? I don't know what it had to talk to someone, and then we left right away. What bar was that? I don't know what it was called, but it was over by the Pier 4, by the bayfront. I've started a list of bar names, and I'll be visiting some of them if they're still operational and asking around about Cheryl. So far, people seem certain about when Cheryl stopped dancing. But as we've just heard, Cheryl could keep secrets.

Is it possible to know for sure that Cheryl didn't go to the Niagara Falls Hotel that night? When she was around us, she made my day. Every day she was a happy person. She never looked like she was sad. When I went to her house before she went missing, she didn't look like herself. I went in the room.

She was getting changed. I said, oh, where did you get that new tattoo? She was changing and everything. She didn't look herself. Like, she didn't look like she was happy. It's like she was kind of hiding her body, and she never usually would. Why would she hide her body if she's dancing, right? She was hiding herself on me.

I don't know. It was kind of weird yeah she was hiding herself on me i don't know it was kind of weird because she was like dressing and i'm like that's not like her i'm like usually she would probably walk around with nothing on she did that she was dressing yeah maybe she was hiding bruises i don't know but it was weird because i'm like thinking oh like she don't feel comfortable around me that's not like her and she knows i'm not a lesbian because like that's not me she would like walk around she wouldn't care right that's just cheryl but like when he was there he was in the living room she was in the bedroom she was getting changed and she was like really quiet and she wasn't herself what was that what was the tattoo I

don't remember where was it on her body like where you can't see it I think it was on there's on the back that's right yeah I think it was back here I can't remember it was so long ago you can see it in the video the one on the shoulder I don't know I I can't remember. Well, you're pretty observant. But she was hiding herself like a lot. Bruises. Maybe.

But in the front, not the back. The back she didn't care, but the front she was sitting on the bed and just like hiding herself trying to dress for me not to see something. That's what I thought. That's what it looked like to me when I was there. And this is just before she disappeared. That's right. Just before she went missing. Just before she went missing. So the more you keep talking the more you're recalling. Yeah, the more I'm

remembering things. Little things like that make a difference the interview with the propane tanks ends oh i just want to get home i have a headache so bad i'm sorry no no it's just everything i'm sorry i had to sit and listen to that stuff in some ways, you know? But... What do you mean? You wouldn't believe the headache, how bad it is right now. You can tell me how to get home. I take Odette home and reflect on all the information we've heard,

and the toll these cases take on everyone. Okay. Well, here we are. Thanks very much for that again. You're welcome. Back to Clyde and Chrissy. Okay, and on that note, I think we're good for today. Sorry to keep taking you back into this. I know it sucks and you loved her.

These kinds of things are... Even later, if you don't think it's going to affect you now, later it's going to come up in your head again because of us talking about it. I'm glad it does because it's nice to be human. In the life I've led and grown up in, there weren't a whole lot of times to feel human. But protecting other people, avenging other people, it seemed to work, you know?

It had its place. Let's just say it's a good thing if I don't meet him today. And Chrissy Cowley, Cheryl's old workmate, has more to add, too. I'm really happy these guys are actually doing something and looking, because, I mean, 20 years is too long. Like, when are we going to know what happened to her? Like, it took eight years to find out what happened to my friend.

And he was murdered. But that was because one of some someone actually confessed like told someone needs to speak up how can you do that for so long and not have a conscience and then just before i leave her christy tells me a final very interesting story something else that seems minor on the face of it, but that might turn into something more. So just a last little bit of questioning here. So take me back to the time when Cheryl disappeared again. So you saw her on television.

She said yes to Michael, who proposed to her. And then what? Then tell me sort of a step-by-step of what happened. You went into work. I went into work the next morning. So tell me the first part. Okay. So I seen that.

And so New Year's, we close our doors, and then we open up New Year's morning. So when I went in on New Year's morning, she had another shift too because we had to close that night, so she started a little later. And 15 minutes after her shift started, Sammy, who was the manager at the time, he was like, well, where's Cheryl? I'm like, she's not here yet. So I saw him pick up the phone, and I watched him dial, and I heard him say, you are not here, you're fired.

And then he hung up the phone, and I was just like, wow, that fast, eh? And he's like, yep, I don't put her up with that. And then we find out she actually is missing. Is it possible that Cheryl was fired over the phone on the early morning after Michael Lavoie's marriage proposal? And what impact would this alleged firing have had on someone like Cheryl? Police say that there were messages on the answering machine, but none from Sammy Valeri, her supervisor. So who were the messages from?

I want to talk to Sammy, and I want to look into the alleged trip to the Niagara Hotel in person. And also go back to the scene, that hallway with the circles on the walls. The place where it might have all begun. You have been listening to Episode 3, Blondie. Visit cbc.ca slash sks to see photos of Clyde Phillips, Chrissy Cowley, and Chester the Chihuahua. If you're looking for more true crime, check out Missing and Murdered. Who Killed Alberta Williams? An eight-part podcast from CBC News, hosted by Connie Walker. In 1989, 24-year-old Alberta Williams was found dead along the Highway of Tears near Prince Rupert, B.C. Police never caught her killer. 27 years later, her unsolved

murder continues to haunt her family, and the retired cop who says he knows who did it. To learn more, visit cbc.ca slash who killed Alberta Williams or subscribe in iTunes or your favorite podcast app. Someone Knows Something is hosted, written, and produced by David Ridgen and mixed by Cecil Fernandez. The series is also produced by Chris Oak, Steph Kampf, and executive producer Arif Noorani. Our theme music is by Bob Wiseman, with vocals by Mary Margaret O'Hara and Jess Reimer. Someday we will look out at the sun And know a light that shines to do all our love for