Someone Knows Something - S2 Episode 6: Stepbrother

Episode Date: January 2, 2017

David tracks down Michael Lavoie's stepbrother, Mark Dempsey, and talks to him about family, betrayal and the criminal code. For transcripts of this series, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/season2/someone-knows-something-season-2-sheryl-sheppard-transcript-listen-1.3846237

Oh, hey there! I'm Andrew Fung and I want to tell you about my new series with ViaRail. Join me as I ride on from Toronto to Ottawa and London aboard ViaRail's new fleet of trains. My journey was a breeze. No traffic jams, just smooth sailing. The seats are super comfy and with complimentary Wi-Fi, I can work and play with ease. Plus, with meals and snacks on board, I arrived refreshed and ready to explore. From a boat cruise in Ottawa to the Grand Theatre in London, these cities are packed with amazing experiences. For your next trip, do yourself a favor. Skip traffic and take Via Rail.

Watch both episodes now on cbc.ca slash Via Rail. Paid content with Via Rail Canada. This is a CBC Podcast. The following episode contains graphic language. Listener discretion is advised. You are listening to Season 2 of Someone Knows Something from CBC Radio. Previously on SKS. I do regret my actions, like especially the sex part. Oh, I do. He's sitting on SKS. At the beginning, I know that she was not telling us the whole truth. It's frustrating because I do regret in every being of my soul

that he didn't say something sooner to the detectives. I gave Mr. Lavoie exactly what he wanted. I'm telling you, I'm not finished with this. I'm going to keep on going. This is Episode 6, Stepbrother. Mark, how are you? I'm good, how are you doing? Not too bad. Nice to see you. You ready to do this now? Yeah, for sure. So this is just all my audio recording stuff? Certainly, yeah. I've met Mark Dempsey behind a two-story building

with a derelict dentist office sign on the front. It's a job site, and he's working with a small crew on the outside walls doing cement and stucco. Mark's about 5'8", with a flushed face and radiant blue bloodshot eyes. He's wearing a faded red cap that says Redskins and a dirty white t-shirt and shorts. Mark Dempsey is Michael Lavoie's stepbrother. Good enough, thanks James. Just scrape that wall for me man. Grab that scaffold for me, the green ones, okay?

And under the stairs, right? Yep, yep. Thanks man. No problem. Great. So you guys are working inside somewhere here? No, I'm working on the exterior of the building there. I'm a stucco guy. You're an exterior wall system expert. Yeah.

I do exterior wall systems. You do it for 27 years. Before doing 27 years as a plasterer, Mark did three years in jail. And he's got a fairly florid way of speaking, so if you're hesitant about cursing on the airwaves, you might want to turn down the volume. What jail were you in? Not the Don jail.

Abbey jail. The three-year i mean in regina friggin sudbury susan ray mimico the east the west the dawn yeah the dawn's my favorite jail though why it's just it was okay. Yeah. I did three and a half years in jail, right? But, you know, I made sure I quit that shit. I've been doing this stuff for 27 years now. I made sure I found something that I could be good at and not have to go to jail.

I don't want to go to jail. Fuck that shit. I've seen those guys't want to go to jail. Fuck that shit. I've seen those guys in there at 40 and 50. Fuck that. I'm not going to be that. I get out when I was 23 and I fucking did a bunch of other jobs and found stucco

and I've been sticking at it for 27 years now. You know, that's my mandated life right now. You know, that's my mandate in life right now. It's a tough job, but somebody's got to do it. He's got so much fucking work to do. It's just never ending.

Never, never ending. Despite being so busy, Mark's agreed to take a break from stuccoing on this hottest of summer days to chat with me about his stepbrother, Mike Lavoie. How do you know Mike? My dad married his mom. Me and Mike were really tight.

I've known him since he was 10 years old. When we were kids, we played hockey together. I was like the older brother to him, right? Like, you know, he embraced us, you know what I mean? Because when they got married, Pat and my dad, you know, I don't know how old I was, maybe 12 or 13 then, right? So they've been together a long, long time. Mark grew up with Mike.

They've shared friends and a job, and as we've heard, both had intimate relations with Sheila Darbison. Sheila says she and Mark were over in early October 1997, but Mark remembers it a month later. I quit Sheila in November, okay? And I was really upset then, you know, like, from splitting up with Sheila, okay? You know, I kind of went off my rocker a little bit because, you know, I had three kids with her. You know, I loved her, right? So, you know, and then when I found out she was fucking Mike,

you know, if it was any other guy, it would be different. You know what I mean? But, you know, I didn't even know she was with Mikey, okay, until I was laying on my mom's bed. I said, well, I want to make visitation with the children, right? And Mikey come in, and I was on the phone with Sheila. And I said, give me a minute. I said, I'm on the phone with Sheila.

And he got a funny look in his eye, right? And fuck, I knew he was fucking my ex, right? Right there and then. Absolutely, right? He ran right out of my mom's house. And he was gone. He was gone. Mark maintains that Sheila started calling Mike Lavoie in the December before Cheryl disappeared. But in Sheila's version, the timing's a bit earlier, in late October or November, that those first calls were made. Sheila started calling Mike in December. Yeah, in December.

The December that Cheryl disappeared. She was driving down there and fucking putting notes in his door, my dad's door, where Mike lived at that time. Michael Lavoie, during the time he was with Cheryl, would stay on and off at Cheryl and Odette's apartment, and in the off times, at his mother Pat and stepdad Bill's place. I'm going to fuck my fucking woman, my fucking wife, and not even tell them, even though I'm not with her.

At least have the fucking decency to say something, you know? Fuck. Mark's still emotional about what he sees as a betrayal. Sheila outlined her experiences with Michael, but I am still interested in the timing of the relationship that started, on the phone at least, before Cheryl disappeared. Mark has more to say about all of it, but something bizarre happens before we get to that. What happened?

They brought me flying. Where? Last night. They took everything out of the truck. All my car battery and everything. Get the hell out of here. The car we're standing next to was broken into last night, and the owner finds out. I had a backup battery for my truck. Yeah. Gone. Get out of here. How'd they get in there? I have no idea. Son of a gun. Wowee. So he was robbed last night?

Yeah. Was he parked right here? Yeah. He's got cameras, eh? This is a bad fucking neighborhood, like I said. I'm scared for my tools, for God's sake. He just found out. He just went to check his trunk, and fuck it, everything's gone.

Seems like a pretty active neighborhood, but we soon get back into talking about Michael Lavoie. I used to work with him. I worked with him. What did you do together? We did Video One Canada. We worked together. What's Video One Canada? It's a distribution company for VHS recordings. That was the receiver. He was the shipper. Videos. VHS. Back in the day. What was on the tapes? Oh, there's no sex at all.

They're all Pixar. You knew what I was asking. Yeah, no, not, they didn't have zero of that. Zero, zero, zero of that. It was a really respectable company. Did you ever see him undertake any criminal act that you can tell me about? Oh, certainly.

So what kinds of things was being stolen at the time? Just robbing, robbery, money, always money. Always money. It's all about money, right? Houses, people. Everything. money right yeah houses people everything you know like like grab your wallet out of your pocket okay if you think you're tough enough to get back go ahead and try that's a new game i noticed a faded and wrinkled cobra tattoo on Mark's arm. You got the cobra when you had bigger arms?

Oh, I got that when I was 17 on Thunder Day. Michael, what kind of a guy is he? Like, what, do you know what kind of person he is? I've known him since, like, 10 years old, you know what I mean? So, yeah, he's a... What kind of a guy is he? Do you know what kind of person he is? I've known him since 10 years old. I guess for a guy, a newspaper delivery guy, he's pretty arrogant. Mark refers here to the fact that Michael Lavoie delivers papers to apartment buildings. I have a lot of confidence

in myself. You know, I taught him to have a lot of confidence, right? You know, like I said, he's my brother, right? So, I taught him to have a lot of confidence in himself and everything, right?

Did you ever see Michael hit anybody or be aggressive towards anybody? Oh yeah, we fight. We got lots of fights. Yeah. We got lots of fights. You know what I mean? Like, Frank, you're coming down Yonge Street, bro.

Yeah, I'm a little bit racist, you know, like... Michael? The whole family. You know what I mean? You get a little shoulder racist. Michael? The whole family. You get a little shoulder action, trust me. You go out drinking lots and partying. I ask Mark about Cheryl, and he remembers vividly the last time he saw her,

before she disappeared, around Christmas 1997. December 18th, Sheila lent me her car, which she would never friggin' do, okay? And then the front, brand-new tires that week, front tire blows. I don't know. I was doing 120 on the... going to Hamilton. I don't know what the fuck was going on, but that was a weirdo fucking day for me, okay?

Now that I think back, and then Mikey's just really pressed me to come to the bar to have a beer, meet Cheryl too, right? On December 18th? Yeah. Mikey's like, come to this bar, come to this bar, and you brought Cheryl there too, right? And I just want to say hi, Merry Christmas, and that's it, right? I think, you know, what was going on, right?

You know, like, why did he want to meet me with his girlfriend, right, at the bar, right? That's the last time I've seen her. And then I've seen the thing on CCHTV, right? Which was what? When he proposed to her, right? You saw that come out live on TV? Not live, I seen it the next day or something like that, yeah. But I seen that on the TV, right?

Well, right on, right? And then all of a sudden you get reports that she's not around no more, right? Well, right on, right? And then all of a sudden you get reports that she's not around no more, right? You know, hopefully what you're doing and your endeavor works. I'd like to see some justification for Cheryl. She was a beautiful girl, I never ever wanted to fuck her or nothing. I just, she was like a really, really nice person. She was a gorgeous girl. I only met her a few times, but she's always been really nice and never seen nothing nothing she's not a who or either she worked Tim Hortons okay and what about this business of the stripping and she wanted to strip and was going to need Niagara Falls and he

took her there that's hearsay that's all hearsay it's like trying to make her a dirty bitch. That's all. As far as I'm concerned. Did you ever know her or see her when she was dancing, Cheryl? I've never known of her to be a dancer. You got a job at Tim Hortons. You got a boyfriend that is controlling, okay? How are you going to be a dancer? Because I never heard of Mike ever being, you know, being in a strip bar or nothing like that.

So I think that's all bullshit. I'll tell you, in May, I went to a baseball game, and that was after she went missing, right? I looked Mikey in the eye. It's important to remember that Michael Lavoie has always maintained that he had nothing to do with the disappearance of Cheryl Shepard. Mark and others who were close to Michael Lavoie often refer to him as Mikey. probably murdered right I asked him I said did you do it hey honey he gave me yeah trust me we worked together many years right video on Canada and stuff like that you give me to look and like oh yeah he did Oh, hey there. I'm Andrew Fung, and I want to tell you about my new series with Via Rail. Join me as I ride on from Toronto to Ottawa and London

aboard Via Rail's new fleet of trains. My journey was a breeze. No traffic jams, just smooth sailing. The seats are super comfy, and with complimentary Wi-Fi, I can work and play with ease. Plus, with meals and snacks on board, I arrived refreshed and ready to explore. From a boat cruise in Ottawa to the Grand Theatre in London, these cities are packed with amazing experiences. For your next trip, do yourself a favor, skip traffic and take Via Rail. Watch both episodes now on cbc.ca slash Via Rail. Paid content with Via Rail Canada. At Desjardins, we speak business. We speak startup funding and comprehensive game plans.

We've mastered made-to-measure growth and expansion advice, and we can talk your ear off about transferring your business when the time comes. Because at Desjardins Business, we speak the same language you do, business.

So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us and contact Desjardins today. We'd love to talk business. So when you asked Michael that question, how did you say it? Did you say, did you do it? Or did you say, did you kill Cheryl Shepard? No, I didn't say it like that. I just said, did you do it?

And so I didn't, I didn't have to. I just, we can read each other. I've known him since he's 10, right? So, you know, so we can read each other pretty good, right? I asked him if he did it. Yeah, right. Right. And he just looked at me and that meant yes.

In my brain, anyways. In my brain, it meant yes, okay? Without a doubt in my mind, okay? He did it, okay? I can't tell you absolutely, okay? I can't tell you absolutely, okay? But I'm not a dummy, okay? Like, I've known you for 10, 20 years, and I ask you a question, and I get a look. I know, know okay that's the bottom line there right

do you think there's any possibility that he didn't do it like how to how do you be with your woman proposed to her and then she's gone like yeah obviously her mom's gone away right she was in Nova Scotia or something like that, right? I don't know. I can't see how it would be anybody else, OK? In my own friggin' brain. You don't try to commit suicide three days after someone's missing, right?

Isn't that like a conviction already? You know what I mean? Like you're distressed because you did something bad, right? So I'm gonna kill myself now. You know what I mean? I certainly make sense to me, you know? Abso-fucking-lutely, right? You understand?

Did you ever have any questions about the police investigation? Like, did you ever wonder what they could have done differently? I guess if they were watching him and they fucking save him from killing himself, obviously they're doing their job, okay? Mark is pretty sure of himself and what he says are his intuitions about Michael Lavoie's guilt. But what would Lavoie say if he actually broke his silence about the case? Eight months after Cheryl disappeared and two or three after Mark Dempsey went to catch a Blue Jays game with Michael,

Mark says the Hamilton police approached him. They wanted Mark to help them, to see if he could get Michael Lavoie to open up about the case. And did you tell me one time that you worked with the police? Yeah. They come to ask me to help them. They needed, they needed help, okay? They wanted me to get Mike to say that he didn't.

They sanctioned me to come to Hamilton. So who's they? The police, the Hamilton Police Department. Don Forgan or something like that, right? And he was investigating the case and everything. And they wanted me to get Mike in an area, either a bar or the hotel room that they rented me, right? And ask him, did you kill Cheryl Shepard? Either yay or nay, right?

You know, like, definite, right? So we went to the hotel room and uh you and my they had it yeah they had it stacked or whatever right mic'd up and videoed up in that right and i just got off work and i was having a beer and i just went oh i had to have a shower and that um i didn't ask him properly or something like that, like the right question, right? So, anyway, cops figured that I wasn't really helping them that much, right? So you had them in the hotel room, they had cameras going, they had mics on, and you were supposed to say, hey, Michael, did you do it again?

Did you kill Cheryl Shepard? Like, how do you, like, articulate? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was the key question. Did you kill Cheryl Shepard? Like, how do you... They wanted you to ask that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was the key question. You know, like you just... So did the police pay you to help them? Yes, they did.

$50 a day and they rented my motel room across from the keg on the link there. Did the police interview you a lot about the case? No, no, no, no, no. They just asked me to help them out and try to get Mikey to put it on himself, right? Like, I wasn't there. I didn't fucking do nothing. How long did you work with the police then when they asked you to try to get Michael to confess?

At least two weeks. Yeah, at least two weeks. They paid for my hotel. They gave me 50 bucks a day. Yeah. And I was working at the time too, right? And I couldn't get Mike down there, you know. He'd come a few times, but they wanted it set up. They set up the hotel room.

I was supposed to ask him a few questions, point questions in the hotel room, right? It didn't happen, right? You couldn't figure a way out to say it. questions in the hotel room, right? It didn't happen, right? You know. You couldn't figure a way out to say it. Yeah, like, you know how you asked me? I said, did you do it, right? Like, that doesn't mean nothing. Did you kill

Cheryl Shepard? That's another word, okay? But I can't word it like that, because he used to be all over it, you know what i mean he's not stupid you know we're all criminals like we we've all done time before we're all criminals and you just keep your mouth shut and you'll never get caught okay you know what i mean that's how it works, right?

Retired Hamilton detective Warren Correll is reluctant to tell me much about the operation with Mark at first. We do homicide investigations. There's a lot of different techniques that are undertaken. And I prefer not to talk specifically about all of those things but there were a lot of different attempts made and I'll leave that up to your imagination to try and gain evidence for this case and people who we thought were genuine in helping us out, let us down at different moments. And it was extremely frustrating. And Coral eventually shares his theory about why this particular sting operation didn't go anywhere. So for the Mark thing, if we choose to use what he says, he basically says that he couldn't bring himself to say,

did you do it, Mike, in the way that he was supposed to say it. But you are suggesting that he wasn't helpful before that. In a roundabout way, I think Mark let Mike know that he was talking to the police. And that's why it didn't pan out. He telegraphed it somehow? He did. I think he blatantly told him. Okay. Generally a person who has not committed a crime comes forward and assists the police

and you know, Mike was known to the police but but he was certainly not some hardened criminal that we would typically have people clam up on. And he has just never, ever helped himself to not be a suspect in this. And I think that's telling. And until that is done, I believe that he will be, continue to be number one suspect in this matter. I think Mike can tell us a lot of different things if he really wanted to. But Mark Dempsey says Michael Lavoie will never tell them anything. He says they lived by a different kind of code. There's certain codes that you use, right? Shut your fucking mouth.

That's it, right? You don't put it on yourself, right? So, it's just the way it goes. As far as I'm concerned, when they find the body, then maybe you might get some kind of... Something, something, okay? Like, I don't know what, but... He'll never put it on himself, okay? He'll never, never, ever put it on himself, okay? He'll never, never, ever put it on himself, okay? Like, we all know the criminal law too well, okay?

So, it's not a way of life for me no more, okay? But when I was younger, you know what I mean? You're not a rat. You can't be a rat. You know what I mean? You're going to get knocked out. What was your conviction, if you don't mind me asking, when you were 18? Oh, that was for assault.

Yeah. Have you been clean ever since then? No, I assaulted that guy yesterday. I fucking was in jail yesterday, yeah. You were in jail yesterday? Yesterday I was in jail, yeah. That's why I got a bucket and a mud there fucking sitting there. At the beginning of our interview, a man on a nearby porch behind us was yelling something I couldn't catch.

This is the same man that Mark is now referring to. I guess he was yelling at Mark. The day before I arrived, Mark got into a fist fight with him and spent a few hours in jail. Are you okay? That's the first time since 2002, okay? He's got a big fucking mouth. Tell me he's going to steal my fucking drill, because I got to go work in the side and I got to work in the front. I don't want to leave my shit here, right? He's telling me he's gonna steal my fucking tools? Fuck him. You alright now?

Oh yeah. No, I'm a little upset still. I'm really emotional, you know. It's alright. Fuck. You're okay. No, but... No. It hurt my feelings a lot today. Well, that's the first time, you know, I've been in trouble since 2002, so...

So what happened? Is it an arraignment or something? Well, I'm on bail right now. I can't have direct or incorrect contact with him, okay? He's yelling at my fucking labor here. Calling with that fucking name. with him, okay? He's yelling at my fucking labor here. Calling him a fat fucking and I ain't getting... I just want to get my job done. I just want to do this job. It's a tough moment for Mark, who's worried at the idea of

getting sucked back into a life he says he's turned his back on. A little emotional about that, right? Because getting sucked back into a life he says he's turned his back on. A little emotional about that, right? Because I don't belong there. You know what I mean? When was the last time you talked to Michael? My dad just turned 75.

I seen him when my dad turned 65. I told my dad, I said, oh yeah, when you die, I'm knocking Mikey out at your funeral. My dad already knows. I let my dad know, at least. He knows there's going to be some fucking mayhem at his funeral. Mark's upset about Michael Lavoie being with Sheila, but based on what I have seen and what he's said,

he's also interested in finding out what happened to Cheryl Shepard. Certainly, life's too short, you know, for people. You know, I'm sorry for Cheryl to, you know, not be here today. She was a nice girl, really, you know. Yeah. Anyway. I'm planning to talk to Michael Lavoie's ex-partner Gwen, so before I go, I ask Mark about her. Tell me about Gwen. She's a nice little girl. Had the kids with them, right?

Certainly I know the girls, all three of them, right? She moved out west. She got the fuck out of Dodge. Did you talk to Gwen at all? Not yet, I'm going to. I am going to. We've figured out where Gwen works, and I'm planning to drive out there with Odette.

Okay, man, thanks very much for your time. Okay, no problem, Dave. Don't lose the car. It doesn't matter, I'll share it anyway. Much appreciated. Thanks a lot, man. I leave Mark at his work site with the sun beating down on his stucco and scaffolding.

I like his openness about his experiences with Michael LaVoy, the Blue Jays game, how he worked with police or didn't. He reminds me of many people I've met in my life who struggle through it and hope for something better despite a mottled past that can sometimes overtake them. He stepped up and told me what he knew. And that takes me back to thinking about Gwen. She also has a story to tell, and I need her to tell it. But before I get too far in planning that trip, I get a call from Odette.

Hello? Hello, David? Oh, hi, Odette. How are you? I haven't been feeling good at all. Oh, you haven't been feeling good. No, my nerve is really acting up right now. Oh. So what do you think we should do then? That I don't know.

So we have it all in place. It's just a matter of if you're able to go or not. So what's your thoughts? Oh, God. So what's your thoughts? Odette says her nerves are frayed and that she can't go on the trip after all. So I'll be hitting the road myself, off to cross the country, to see if I can talk to Gwen, one of the key people in Michael Lavoie's life and whose children were with Michael across that weekend in early January 1998, when Cheryl disappeared.

You have been listening to Episode 6, Stepbrother. Visit cbc.ca.sks to see photos of Mark Dempsey and learn more about the case. Someone Knows Something is hosted, written, and produced by David Ridgen and mixed by Cecil Fernandez. The series is also produced by Chris Oak, Steph Kampf, and executive producer Arif Noorani. Our theme music is by Bob Wiseman, with vocals by Mary Margaret O'Hara and Jess Reimer. Maybe one day we will look out on the sun And know the light that shines the truth on our lives