Someone Knows Something - S5 Episode 5 Part 1: Rolly

Episode Date: October 29, 2018

The investigation leads to the owner of an auto body shop, who has information about Patrick Sumner's vehicle, and similar cars that may have been in Thompson on the night of Kerrie's murder. For transcripts of this series, please visit: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sks/someone-knows-something-season-5-kerrie-brown-transcripts-listen-1.4850662

We Built This City is a collection of stories from Mississauga, capturing the rich history, culture, sports, music, and incredible individuals who have shaped Mississauga into the vibrant city it is today. This brand new series, created by Visit Mississauga, celebrates a city 50 years in the making, paying homage to Ontario's vibrant, diverse, and dynamic third largest city. Tune in to Visit Mississauga's brand new podcast, We Built This City, This is a CBC Podcast. The following program contains mature subject matter.

Listener discretion is advised. You are listening to Someone Knows Something from CBC Podcasts. In Season 5, David Ridgen travels north to Thompson, Manitoba to investigate the 1986 murder of Carrie Brown. This is Episode 5, Part 1. Roley. Hey, so what's up? Oh, really? Okay, so, but his father's dead, so maybe that's, yeah.

I bet you that's where he lives. Okay, so we could go by there tonight and just scope it out, and then figure out a way to approach and then make it as easy as possible for him to talk. Yep. Good work. Good work. So we've got some good news. Well, we've got a little bit of good news. Trevor may have found somebody who can help us locate Patrick Sumner, which is great because I really want Patrick

to tell us the story of what happened with the police and why, in particular, they felt that he was the number one suspect. I do wonder if he has some knowledge. Was he there that night? Did he come upon the scene? Did he drive down that road even? Was it him in the car, but he had nothing to do with it? These are all things that really need to be answered.

And I'm sure that Trevor and Mr. Brown would love to pose those questions and hear those answers. I've got my surveillance kit here, binoculars, telephoto zoom on my Nikon. Hey. Ready to rock and roll? We can go if you want. Let's rock and roll.

Okay. Trevor's in a colorful Hawaiian shirt and wearing terrifically oversized leopard print plastic glasses. You might want to sit in the back actually. Okay. Okay. I feel like I'm in a limousine. You kind of are.

You look like a rock star with your loud shirt and your sunglasses. And I look like your driver. Sure. Once around the park geez then home for tea. He's laid-back seeming but also on edge because we're on our way to Patrick Sumner's for the first time. So where do we go? We go up back up Princeton Drive here we'll go past the school. Okay. Turn right at the lights. So after this street,

it'll be the first house that's back to us right now with the fence here. I see it there, yeah. There's a van in the driveway right now. The windows are sort of ajar. Someone is there. Yeah, there's a Mustang there. That's for sure where he is.

So it's going to be tough because there's little kids and they all know what's going on. It's a tough entry here. The ravens are going off. Yeah, I can just hear the ravens there. They're like, that's him, you're close. Just want to make sure I have the

license plate number. Now, a smart person would stake it out and wait. There's nowhere to really sit except this playground here. I wonder if there's the driveways there. We're just going to look totally conspicuous. Yeah, there's a lady right there staring at us.

Don't look. I think it's possibly better There's a lady right there staring at us. Don't look. Okay. I'm looking straight ahead. I think it's possibly better to go and see him during the day rather than just at suppertime. Sure. I'll go by myself. Yeah, that sounds cool. I don't think it's a good idea. I will make him very uncomfortable.

Yeah. Definitely. I'm going to take my binoculars off so I don't look like a bird watcher. I've learned in all my previous cases that speaking to people like Patrick Sumner is far better with more knowledge. I need to be able to actually hear everything he might say and to have the right questions ready. Otherwise, you waste all opportunity. Do you remember the two witnesses from the cemetery road? Sean and Larry? Yes.

We return to Trevor's to brief Jim on what's happening, and then we start talking about Sean Simmons and the vehicles he and the other witness, Larry Leapheart, say they saw come out of the stable roads the night Kerry was murdered. Sean Simmons was the guy who pointed the finger at Sumner. So the only thing connecting Sumner to the case was Simmons pointing the finger at him. Right. That's it. Jim thinks back to Sumner's preliminary hearing. I didn't learn much except, like I told you, that I could not see where they had anything to convict Sumner.

Like, circumstantial little bit of stuff. They found a spoon out there, which there was a similar one found at his house, out at the dump that they hot-spooned or whatever. I'm not into dope or anything, so I know but that's all I could see they figured they had blood on clothing they found out in the laundry back at the dump there Sumner's parents place that stuff but that turned out to be not not his blood or Kerry's blood or anything they could identify.

I mean, I'm not that bright, but I could not see nothing there to say this man murdered or raped or did anything else. Like I knew it was nothing would ever stand up in court. And there's no other green car that was located by the Paw, Flin Flon, Thompson, Reserves, anywhere? I don't know about that. There was only two in town. They were the only ones that color in town, that type of car. That's all I got to say. That's it, yeah, the two in town. People with a small town like this are pretty familiar with vehicles and there was just the two, but one was a four-door and one was a two-door. Which is which, I don't know. Hercurt had the other one. Yeah, that's the weird thing.

Kerry's friend's father had the other one. Yeah, they happened to drive a vehicle that looked eerily similar to Sumner's car. Oh. Derek Hercurt. Hercurt. Derek Grimace is his nickname, Grimace. And his older brother drove that car, a green-collared car. Derek was named Grimace, or Grimace is his nickname, Grimace. And his older brother drove that car, a green car. Derek was named Grimace, or Grim, after the large purple character in McDonald's commercials. Derek drove a green muscle car, and so did his older brother Colin, according to Jim and Trevor.

But Colin doesn't live in town anymore. His mother on the farm farm wherever they moved to. Like the old man Randy died quite a few years ago. So Kerry would have known Derek though. Oh very well, Kerry and Derek were good friends. I would trust him. He did Nicole Zerodny. The dad was very mad.

Derek said for about three weeks the father would not speak to him. He was his brother. Maybe because there was only two vehicles like that in town and one was under scrutiny. So do you know if Grimace, or sorry, if Derek was cleared by the police? He was interviewed by the police quite a bit. He told me that. Yeah.

Whether he's cleared by them, I don't know. Arriving on the right. There he is. He's sitting in the backyard there. So let's go see him now. He looks like a big guy. If Derek, a.k.a. Grimace, drove a similar car, I need to talk to him. You're Grimace? Yeah. I know why they call you Grimace, drove a similar car. I need to talk to him. Hi.

You're Grimace. Yeah. I know why they call you Grimace. How's this dog? She's friendly. Hi, how are you? Derek's sitting in his backyard around a fire pit accompanied by his dog, Zena. She looks like a Newfoundland, but she's actually part black lab, part mastiff.

Derek's in sunglasses and a tank top, and he's got a beer in his hand. Thanks so much for doing this. No problem. You going to sit in the sun here? Is that okay for you? Yep. Okay. I've got coffee, Pepsi, Diet Pepsi, iced tea. And Bud Light.

And beer, if you want a beer. Not past the... Sun isn't over the yard arm yet, so... See, I'm getting off night shifts, so... Oh, so you've been working i've been up since five last night which mine or what do you do i work in the mill i have a crusher operator helper and the ore that they bring up from underground it comes in we just crush it down to smaller smaller size so it can go into the mill and they grind it down to powder so they can ship it to the smelter.

Nickel. Have you always had the nickname Grimace? Since I was 15. So yeah, I've had it for a long time. Even at work, my boss calls me Grimace. Really? Yeah. Derek Herkert.

Yeah. Okay. What age were you then, Derek? 16 or 17. Probably 17. Tell me about your memories of the time when Carrie was murdered. Afterwards? Well, I found out later on it actually affected my dad pretty good.

He didn't show anything, but it changed a lot. But it's hard to talk. I don't talk about it to people I don't know. It's hard to open up. Tell me about the day, and maybe start telling me about Carrie. There was the group of them, like Carrie and Rhonda and Nicole, and we just hung out every weekend. There was roughly about 20 of us, and it was always a pretty close group.

Grimace was also at the Trout Avenue party where Carrie went missing. It seemed pretty normal. I had to go home early that night, but I could have swore she was still there when I left, but it was just a regular Thursday night. We had no school for Friday. Do you remember seeing Carrie Ann at the party? Well yeah, because I usually had the vehicle but that night

I didn't because I'm usually picking up a bunch, dropping off, people going everywhere. There was always one or two that were always first couple hours drive here, pick somebody up, somebody had to go somewhere else. So you were the usual sort of designated driver? Well, there was a couple of us. I had a car and, you know, Doug had a car. Carrie and Nicole were going to leave, and then Nicole went back for her purse or something,

and then she came back out and Carrie was gone. And I don't even know if that happened before I left or after I left. It was pretty close. It would have been within minutes. Within minutes of you leaving? I would think so. They estimated that time around midnight or just before midnight, which was the same time I was leaving.

Theories? I don't know. I think it's like the paw with that Helen Betty. There's got to be people that know. It's been far too long. The town was too small. There's got to be people that know something. I think when they do solve it, you're gonna find out there's a few people in town. Oh, they knew something. I really think that. I kind of hope they were on the right path with the guy they went after because Patrick Sumner. Because it kind of makes them look stupid if they were completely wrong.

I think for the longest time they were fixated, thinking it was somebody there. There was so many finger pointing going on, you know. You were interviewed by the police? Oh yeah, I did lots of interviews. Did you do a lie detector? Yeah, lie detector, DNA. And they took DNA from everybody at the party, right? I don't know.

They came to the door and I said, you don't even have to question me. I've got her picture hanging on my wall. Actually, we did it in the driveway. You want to go in the house? I said, no, let's give the neighbor something to talk about. So she just pricked my finger right in the driveway. Your family may have come under some extra scrutiny. Well, my car, because my car,

too, a lot of people thought it looked like Sumner's. But to anybody who knew anything about cars, they knew it didn't look a lot like... Sumner had a white top. Mine was all gold. Mine was rusted out. He had Bondo. He had big white tires. I didn't have regular tires, you know. What was his model of car? I think it was a Coronet. And what was your car? Satellite. Plymouth Satellite. The Plymouth Satellite and the Dodge Coronet were very similar cars.

In fact, in 1971, they were essentially the same car. Both Chrysler products, just branded differently. Sumner owned a 1970 Dodge Coronet. You weren't driving that car at that time? No. Dad was mad at me that night, and I wasn't allowed to take the car out. That's why I had to be home early that night. Did the whole family know Carrie Ann? No.

Just you? Yeah. Oh, okay. My dad knew Carrie's dad because they both worked at T3. And your brother? Two brothers and a sister. So an older brother? I'm the youngest. Did they come under any scrutiny with this regard to the case? They weren't even in town. Oh. No it was just me living with mom and dad. Both my brothers one was in school one was down south. Would Carrie, in your estimation, have gotten into a car with someone she didn't know?

No, I don't think so. Not someone she didn't know. So you think that somebody convinced her to come into a vehicle? Oh yeah, guaranteed. Because it's like, wait, she wouldn't have bailed on Nicole. Like she wouldn't have just, you know, jumped in and took off. That's not Carrie. You don't think she would have tried to walk to Nicole's house because she was ahead of Nicole or something without somebody with her?

Nicole's house wasn't too far away, so that maybe, but I would think she would wait a few minutes. So you didn't drive your car that night. Where was the car that night? It was here. Oh, it was in the driveway? Yeah. Is this where you lived at the time?

Yeah. Is your family home? Yeah, I bought it off my dad when he retired. Grimace pulls out another beer. What's the feeling in town about Patrick, do you know? For the longest time, everybody figured, yeah. Now, they don't know. See, it took, what, I think 15 years before we found out they have two different DNA samples.

And we didn't know. From two different perpetrators. Yeah. And something about the floor mats and an air mattress they got stuck like we didn't find that out till years and years later do you know anything about rcmp looking into the various older cars up here did you hear anything from rcmp directly or anybody else who said how many cars they were able to look into i don't know they took pictures of my car but that was it because well carrie's been in the car but yeah they all they did They took pictures of my car, but that was it. Because, well, Carrie's been in the car, but all they did was take pictures of my car.

It seemed like once they got Pat, they fixated all on Pat. You don't still own the car. No. They sold it. No, it was a beater. The car talk brings someone else to Grimace's mind. That Roley Becker seems to know a little bit. Who's Roley?

Roley Becker? He had a body shop here. And he did lots of commenting on there. And he said he talked to a cop years ago. Is he still in town? Yeah. Do you know him? I know who he is.

Do you know where he is? Roley Becker. Oh, they're a great name. Hello? Oh, hi. Can I speak to Roley, please? Uh, who is it? This is Dave Ridgen calling from CBC Radio. CBC Radio?

Yeah. What's it about? Are you Roley? Sure. Okay. I'm doing some work on the Carrie Ann Brown case. And your name has come up as somebody who might be good to talk to. So I was wondering if you'd be interested in just chatting with me for a bit about that case if I could come and see you okay one second hello Rolly okay so you're Rolly all right so I was wondering if you have a few with my name come

up and what's your angle on it I don't really have an angle other than just trying to find out who did it, of course. Yeah, no, I wouldn't, uh, I wouldn't mind finding, uh, out who was responsible myself. Do you have any time this afternoon? When? I could come and see you right now if you, if that's all right. Yeah, okay. Okay. I'll probably be in the garage okay what's your address

we built this city is a collection of stories from mississauga capturing the rich history culture sports music and incredible individuals who have shaped Mississauga into the vibrant city it is today. This brand new series, created by Visit Mississauga, celebrates a city 50 years in the making, paying homage to Ontario's vibrant, diverse, and dynamic third largest city. Tune in to Visit Mississauga's brand new podcast, We Built This City, to learn more. Available now on CBZ Listen. Are you sure you parked over here? Do you see it anywhere?

I think it's back this way. Come on. Hey, you're going the wrong way. Feeling distracted? You're not alone. Whether renting, considering buying a home, or renewing a mortgage, many Canadians are finding it hard to focus with housing costs on their minds. For free tools

and resources to help you manage your home finances and clear your head, visit Canada.ca slash ItPaysToKnow. A message from the Government of Canada. That was fast. Look at all these old vehicles here. Oh, that's an old car. Roley's front yard and driveway are dominated by Frankenstein's trucks, SUVs and ATVs all rigged or rebuilt for off-roading. There are parts everywhere in a kind of organized chaos.

At the back of the house, a large garage workshop with a closed door. Guessing he's in here. Hey, are you the first Rolly I talked to? Yeah. Torrance, Rolly's teenage son who answered the phone, has short black hair and is in a black t-shirt and pants. Nice old vehicles out here. Here's my car. Sure got enough of them.

Yeah. Are you rebuilding stuff or? Yeah. Just tinkering around on crap. The actual Roley, beyond, gets up from a work table next to a giant truck they've been working on. He's got a big salt and pepper beard, a cobra on his cap, and a watch hanging by a carabiner off one of his belt loops. So you're a long time Thompson resident, Roley?

Yeah. How long have you been here? Pretty much since 1960. And did you work in the mines? No. Never an Inco man? No. My dad worked for Inco, so I knew enough not to. Well it was good growing up. You know, it was a small community. As kids we were just always out in the bush building forts, catching frogs, whatever. It seemed like a great community growing up.

Seems to have gotten a little rougher, but do things change or do we change? How do you know? What was your interest in the Kerry Brown case? Well, I've got some information that may implicate someone So it's not something I want to do on the radio But can you give me any insight as to what you might have to say Without naming a person?

Not really And your information's from a credible source, you would say? Uh, from my own two eyes. After a few minutes and a bit of convincing, Roley tells me what he knows. The event happened on a Thursday, and Friday things were a bit slow around the shop, and I was taking loads of scrap metal and stuff out to the dump.

And, you know, a little body shop generates a fair amount of scrap metal or whatever. So that Friday, I took out the first load of scrap metal, and I saw Patrick was there washing his car. Because, you know, his family operated the dump, and that's where he lived, in the house on the edge of the city dump at the time. And this was Friday? And this was the Friday following at the time. And this was Friday? And this was the Friday following the Thursday incident.

The incident being Carrie's disappearance, Patrick being Patrick Sumner. Her body had not yet been discovered until Saturday. Right, so it would be the 17th, Friday the 17th. So this was the Friday. And what time did you say?

So the first, I'm not a morning person, so I probably would have got to the shop around 10, probably did the first load at 11, and he was, so it was, you know, late morning when I got there, did one load, and he was washing his car. Normally I would get at least, know a wave or an acknowledgement as I drove through because he was washing his car right by the entrance to the dump area and got nothing he just he seemed quite agitated and and was just

washing his car and I didn't really think anything of it. And then throughout the day, I would head back to the shop, load up more scrap metal. I was going through a bunch of old car parts I had and rearranging some, loading some to go to the scrap metal and hauled it out. So I hauled four loads out that day. And it was probably an hour or two between each load,

and the whole time he was there washing his car. And then, in fact, my wife came out with me on the fourth load. And when we drove through the gate, I even said to her, if he washes that car anymore, there's not even going to be any paint left on it. The thing was, it was no show car. The car already had spots of primer on it. So like I say, it's not something you would be spending the whole day cleaning. I mean, young guys have pride in their cars

and can almost be OCD about their cars. But still, I just thought it was a bit odd. And then Saturday, her body was discovered, and then within a few days, Patrick Sumner was in custody. My best information is that Sumner was taken in for questioning the day after Carrie was found,

based on Sean Simmons pointing him out to police. But Sumner's actual arrest didn't come until later in the following week, on Thursday, October 23rd. And so then, everything clicked. I thought, okay, well then that's obvious why he seemed so agitated and was persistent in cleaning his car for the entire day. Did he ever talk to you on any occasion on that day? No. I mean, I had heard from a guy working in the court that they couldn't even find his fingerprints in the car.

They couldn't find Patrick's fingerprints? Because he cleaned it so good. Because it was, well, he spent all fucking day cleaning it. Yeah, I don't know when he started or when he even finished, but he was continuously cleaning it from 11 o'clock to 4 o'clock that I know of.

That's a lot of cleaning. A 1970 Dodge Coronet 500. It wasn't the Coronet 440. It wasn't a Superbee. It was just a 318 904 transmission, crappy day rear-ended 1970 Coronet 500. Okay, that's good to know. Roley's story about Sumner washing his car the day after Carrie is murdered implies some connectivity when paired with Simmons' observations of the car he saw with its lights off emerging from the stable roads the night before. But it's still circumstantial at best, and Rowley himself has questions when

it comes to which car may have been seen at the Stable Roads. But you know, a lot of it, it just doesn't add up as to what car was seen and then which car was then pointed out. The RCMP officer that I talked to said that someone had seen a green Dodge muscle car leaving the area and passing them on the shoulder. And it appeared that they had shifted gears with a floor shifter as they went by on the shoulder. Sean Simmons at first felt the car he saw coming out of the stable roads with its lights off was more green in colour, but then says that after seeing Sumner and his car at the gas station in the following days, what Sean calls a puke brown and what others call a more gold or tan color, that this car still matched what he saw. And remember, Sean Simmons also says he's very sure

that he actually saw Sumner at the wheel, regardless of the exact color. And yet Patrick's car obviously was gold, and it was an automatic on it with a column shifter, because I ended up with his car after the RCMP had tore it apart looking for evidence. I hadn't heard about the question of floor versus column shifter and standard versus automatic in the evidence, and I asked Sean Simmons about this when I saw him. As the car passed you on the shoulder, did you notice a gear shift happen?

Did you notice him shifting gears? I don't recall that. I don't have a memory of that. If Rowley's recollection of the RCMP officer's assertion is accurate, the gear shifting observation must have come from the other witness that night, Larry Leapheart, whom I have yet to find. What state was Patrick's car in when you got it? Well, the interior was all gutted

and sort of tossed back in there. Was it usable, like drivable? It probably still ran. I don't know. It had been sitting for a long time, and I was just using it for parts for an identical car as that that I was building at the time. How do you know it was his car that you got? How do I know it was his car? Because I bought it off Patrick. Okay. I mean I knew Patrick. He had bought in the car

originally off an employee of mine at the time. Okay okay that makes sense. I was familiar with the car and I was familiar with Patrick to some degree. You know I went buddy buddies with him but I'd always see him around and like I say he was a customer of mine at the time. We had the same cars when I was working on so you know there wasn't there wasn't many of them at the time I think there was only three in town and the other one I also had his parts of that exact style. I mean there's you know a number of different Chrysler products that fit that style within a three-year model period. So Patrick came to you after he was let out of the prelim and sold his car to you? Yeah it was a considerable amount of time the car sat out there at their home or at the dump or whatever for quite some time and then eventually

ended up coming and selling it to me. Did you ever talk to Patrick about that time or that incident or any of that event? No, no. You know, I didn't really feel comfortable around him anymore. Rowley's knowledge of cars, and in particular Sumner's car, is helpful. But we still don't know whose car was seen the night Kerry was murdered. So what kind of person is Patrick? Well, he seemed more of a loner. But, you know, he seemed like someone that, probably like everyone else, kind of wanted to fit in with the crowd and, you know, would go along with the crowd at times or whatever, be on his own at times. He seemed like a fairly quiet, reserved individual.

Have you seen him since? Perhaps just once or twice, but never talked to him. You wonder if he did see something and he was there, I guess just being implicated in the crime, obviously. That's what would keep him from saying they did it. He could very well be fearing for his life. If he saw the brutality that happened to Carrie at the hands of someone, well then he would have reason to fear for his own life. And they speculate on it. It's all speculative. I don't want to get into that territory, but I'm just kind of ruminating with you.

I even asked the RCMP officer at the 10-year mark when they reopened the investigation there. I said, did the tire tracks of the stuck vehicle match Sumner's vehicle? And he said, no, they did not. But he may have changed his wheels and tires. But I knew for a fact he didn't change the wheels and tires but I knew for a fact he didn't change the wheels and tires because it

still had the same aftermarket mag wheels and tires that were on it when he had bought it off the employee of mine at the time so you saw the car before it went to Sumner and after it came from Sumner it came back exactly as it had gone to him. It still had the same wheels and tires on it. But that RCMP officer was able to confirm, to your memory, that Sumner's tires did not match whatever vehicle was stuck. But then who knows if the vehicle that was stuck was even related to the incident with Carrie Brown. You know, what I witnessed Patrick doing at the time,

to me, seemed very strange. Then once they had him in custody, I thought, okay, it's a rap case. What I had seen now makes sense. He was acting, but, how he was acting. But then once he was released, because all they had was circumstantial evidence. But then when they reopened it at the 10-year mark, then I got a hold of the officer in charge of that. And he had even said, he says, if you get enough circumstantial evidence, it may make a case.

I mean, yeah, people always, oh, the truth, the truth, what's the truth? In actual fact, the truth is pretty near irrelevant because people will believe whatever they want to believe anyway. Well, thanks so much. Really nice to talk to you. Well, I hope I can help. I mean, I really feel for Carrie Brown and her family. Like I said, little Ian come around the shop lots, sold him a car,

ripped my heart out when I heard what happened to his sister. But, you know, I hope no one takes any offense of anything I've said, but, you know, there's some things burned in my memory, and I'm just recollecting things the best that I can. I make a note to ask Trevor about his brother Ian at some point and then the floor shifter. Roley said he knew of another car, another guy. Anybody else in town have a car that you think would have at that time looked like those cars? Well there was one in particular I know of at that time that was that style but it was the GTX so it would have came standard with a 440 big block and a floor shifter whether it had been automatic or standard.

And this one, if my memory serves me right, was a standard. But either way, the GTX came base model with the floor shifter and the big block 440. And do you know the name of it? And it was green. And do you know the name of that person? Yeah, but I'd rather not say. Okay. And do you know the name of that person yeah but i'd rather not say okay and do you know and i know he drove like a madman most of the time anyway because even the rcmp asked me they said you know oh so he was driving like he was leaving the scene of a crime and i told him, I said, no, he was driving like that because he always drove like that.

And he was a fellow I knew from the demolition derby days there. And do you think the RCMP looked into that fellow? I don't know. At the 10-year mark, they, you know, took down the information. Whether they followed up on it, I couldn't say. All right, well, thanks, both of you. I'm going to push on here, and thanks for showing me around, too. I'd like to see all the vehicles and stuff and all the work you're doing. Check, check, check.

I've arrived in a small town in western Manitoba after discovering that this is where the man Roley was likely talking about lives. Another person in Thompson who owned a car that may have looked like the one Sean Simmons says he saw coming out of the stable road the night Kerry was murdered. Back in the day, he was known as Mad Max. Hello? Okay.

Oh, hello. Hi, dog. This might be Max's place. Okay. Oh, hello. Hi, dog. This might be Max's place. There's a wasp in there. Watch out, doggie. You're going to get stung. It's pretty run down back here. There's lots of stuff in it. Some kind of welder, batteries, some kind of old press thing. Looks like lots

of different parts of different machines and gas cans. Nobody answers, so I walk back down the road just in time for a truck to drive up beside me. A man in his 60s in a red and green plaid work shirt and wearing glasses pokes his head out with questions on his face. Hey, I'm looking for a guy named Max. What's that? I'm looking for Max. That's me. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.