Someone Knows Something - S8 E1: Angel

Episode Date: September 18, 2023

Eighteen-year-old Angel Carlick was set to graduate high school when she disappeared in Whitehorse in 2007. Her remains were found 6 months later. It’s been 15 years and her murder remains unsolved. Find the full-text transcript for this episode here: www.cbc.ca/1.6970507

Oh, hey there! I'm Andrew Fung and I want to tell you about my new series with ViaRail. Join me as I ride on from Toronto to Ottawa and London aboard ViaRail's new fleet of trains. My journey was a breeze. No traffic jams, just smooth sailing. The seats are super comfy and with complimentary Wi-Fi, I can work and play with ease. Plus, with meals and snacks on board, I arrived refreshed and ready to explore. From a boat cruise in Ottawa to the Grand Theatre in London, these cities are packed with amazing experiences. For your next trip, do yourself a favour. Skip traffic and take Via Rail.

Watch both episodes now on cbc.ca slash Via Rail. Paid content with Via Rail Canada. This is a CBC Podcast. Thank you, Mom. Okay, I feel better. I feel stronger now. I'll call you when I'm done, please. Okay. Okay, I love you. Okay, talk soon. Bye. Sorry.

You don't have to be sorry. Apologies. I've just avoided this part of my whole life it seems. See that, that's willow? Yes. You can make tea out of that and it has natural aspirin in it. Or if you get stung by a bee or something you can chew up the leaves and then put it on the sting and it will relieve the pain it's better in the spring when the sap is running

in the willow stronger not much of a botanist but i know what my mother taught me we're here oh Over here. Oh. She was in there? Yeah. I'm going to put some tobacco down. honor. Quite peaceful having the birds sing. In late 2007, human remains were discovered here, in the wooded outskirts of a Yukon subdivision. It was soon confirmed that they were those of an 18-year-old who disappeared from Whitehorse over five months earlier. Tiny, effervescent, and fiercely independent, her name was Angel Karlik.

You ready? Are you okay? Yeah, I'm good. You wanted me to take you in there? Yeah. Okay, just follow me then. I'm David Ridgen, and this is Someone Knows Something, Season 8, The Angel Carlec Case, Episode 1, Angel. Well, my full name is Ethan Alexander. Ethan Alexander Karlik, or just Alex as I've come to know him,

Angel's brother, now age 30 and living in Good Hope Lake, northern BC. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not really sure what you want to hear. Something about the way Angel disappeared so suddenly at an exciting time in her life and the effect that it had on her family struck me. And when a window of opportunity arose, I decided to call Alex to check the status

of the case and to see what he thought of my potential involvement in it. When I was always close with my sister, when she turned 18, she tried to get me out of the group home. But then I was pretty much close to when she went missing, because she went missing before her 19th birthday. I first read about Angel's case over a decade ago. Hers was one of many cases of young Indigenous women who have gone missing or have been murdered in Canada.

She and her family are members of the Kaskadena First Nation. The investigation seemed to be bogged down, as many are, by a lack of momentum and plenty of rumours. And a mistrust of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police or RCMP was pervasive and still is today. Coming out of all this, my belief is that Angel's full story needs to be heard, and that her case can be solved. And I was only around like 16 and all that. Like we just depended on ourselves and my sister once we became like 11 years old. Pretty independent people. Yeah. I started cooking like when I was seven.

We didn't really talk about our future and our lives together. We weren't really kind of like that kind of brother and sister. I never really asked what the future was going to look like. I ask Alex what he thinks of me looking into his sister's case. I'm actually thinking like anything would be helpful. At some point after Angel's murder, Alex moved back to Good Hope Lake, home to the Dease River First Nation. Alex works at a wood shop in the community that makes things like log cabins

and wood products for the mining industry. Yeah, right now I'm enjoying my time off because I pushed it pretty hard to get all of our orders out. I saw a post from you that you were playing hockey too the other day. You do a recreational hockey team? Yeah, we got a team called GHL Blackhawks. Angel and Alex spent parts of their childhood in Good Hope Lake, where they lived with their mother, Wendy.

Later, Wendy moved the family to Whitehorse, several hours away by car, for Angel and Alex's schooling. I guess she was just like other mothers and stuff around that age, and with residential stuff, she had her addictions, not drug addictions or anything like that,

but with alcohol. During my childhood, yes, she wasn't there all the time, but she wasn't there most of the time. She always made sure I was taken care of, and I always made sure there was food in the fridge. She was a good mom. She really cared about me. When she could, she always gave me money and stuff.

She was just a really special person, but she was a mom to a lot of people in Whitehurst. She wasn't just a mom to me. Angel and Alex were eventually separated, with Alex living in a group home and Angel living with friends or relatives or her mother Wendy. Alex tells me that at the time of Angel's disappearance, he was only seeing her sporadically, so didn't immediately recognize that Angel had disappeared. She just graduated and took off for a while, so I was just still praying for that.

Eventually, Alex began to hear rumors. When my sister went missing, there was a woman who came up to me in my school. She said, like, you're Angel's brother, right? I'm like, yeah. And she was like, well, I wanted to talk to you about because my brother got beaten to death and Angel had witnessed it. She was like, that's why she's probably missing. talk to you about because my brother got beaten to death and they enjoyed witness

she was like that's why she's probably missing yeah she said her brother got beaten to death like she said my sister supposedly might have witnessed this and that's why my sister's gone and have you seen that person since do you know who that person is no no I always thought about it, though, but after years I've been thinking about it, and I'm like, I wish I had bumped into her, I wish I'd talked to her, even got her name. The murder that Alex is likely referring to is that of 52-year-old Colin Cerenko. Cerenko was assaulted and killed on May 22, 2007, within the same period that Angel was thought to have disappeared. Cerenko was reportedly beaten to death beside

the Yukon River in Whitehorse. His case also remains unsolved. The story that Angel had somehow witnessed Colin's murder circulated soon after she disappeared. It was reported early on that there was no link between Angel's case and Cerenko's, but it's something I'll be looking into. Did you ever figure out or find out which person that she knew that saw her last? No. I'm realizing that it's going to be tough to undertake an investigation into Angel's case and make the connections that I need to make over the phone. And I'm carefully edging toward the idea of traveling to the Yukon to investigate on the ground.

But to do that, I'll need the help of people like Alex, Angel's family, and friends. That support and trust is always important to solving cases, but especially here. I'm a white man telling an Indigenous story, interacting with Angel's community. I don't take that lightly. Did police ever tell you anything about what happened to Angel? Did they ever tell you anything about that? No. That's what's starting to be a red flag for me too. They don't really Did they ever tell you anything about what happened to Angel? Did they ever tell you anything about that? No.

That's what's starting to be a red flag for me, too. They don't really tell me, why don't you guys show me pictures or files or anything? Where are you guys hiding? They wanted to talk to me. They interviewed me. They just pretty much asked me the same questions every last time you've seen your sister. Then they started asking me weird questions, Alex and I have been messaging each other on and off for months, mostly just to check in.

Alex periodically moves between northern BC, Good Hope Lake, and Whitehorse, and he tells me he will be around Whitehorse in the window I'm considering for the journey. I've also been in touch with a few others who were close to Angel, and they've agreed to participate. With these people on board, I'm feeling grateful and hopeful. I was about to cross into the Yukon here after a few days of driving I'd say several thousand kilometers It's been a few landslides and detours and floodings and things like that to get through, but not really a big deal. Just a lot of driving because I'm not a great flyer.

The Yukon seems too big for words, or at least the words that I have are not enough. It sits like a gigantic triangle at the upper left of Canada. Boreal, arctic, and tundra regions serviced by the Yukon River watershed and some of the biggest mountains in North America. A huge place with few humans, but nine bears in two hours. Lands covered in the pink purple of fireweed, black spruce, and glacier blue waters, with a freshness in the air that I've only ever encountered here, and a ruggedness that seems to define anyone or anything that lives or comes here. Thanks, Trevor. Thanks Trevor Just off to see if I can pick up Alex Carlic

Last night he stayed at a friend's house And the friend happens to be Somebody who I think used to date Angel Carlic Chris Dawson. So hopefully Chris is there. Talk to Alex for the first time, really, in person. Let's see how this goes. It's a rainy, cold morning, eight degrees, mid-July 2022 in Whitehorse, Yukon. Laid out in a valley sandwiched around the Alaska Highway on one side

and the Yukon River on the other, Whitehorse, the city, is spread across over 400 square kilometers. As the hub of the Yukon, there's a lot of official government buildings and mining offices, an airport, a university, bars and hotels, all dwarfed by the rugged river and mountains around them. Angel disappeared from this place, and part of my focus going forward is to try to reconstruct her timeline here over her final days. Where was she? Who was she with? And when? I liked hearing the Ravens this morning.

They reminded me of being up north in Thompson. Similar but different here in the Yukon on the other end of the country, really. The western end. Made me think of all my cases. It's a bit overwhelming, but I signed up for it. Alex, he didn't know the address. He just said that there was a green Jeep in front,

so I roughly know where he is. I pull up outside of a yellow-sided house with a green fence around a grassy yard. There's an old trailer with a tarp on top and a blue truck in the driveway, along with some wood that's been freshly chopped on the ground. I'm pretty sure this is the place. Okay, so he says, I got my brother and my sister, so if you don't mind our company, they know who my sister was. Soon Alex emerges from the side of the house and walks tentatively in my direction. In cargo jeans, a baggy jacket, backwards black cap, and thick silver chain. Alex, I recognize you.

How are you doing? Pretty good. Nice to see you. I'm David. How was your night last night? It's alright. Yeah? Well, thanks for coming all this way, man. I appreciate it. Sure the hell it don't look like your freaking Facebook thing. I look probably older.

Yeah. A little bit of gray, more. Alex has a friend with him, a fellow in his 30s in an oversized coat and pants, wearing a baseball cap that says Ruthless. Chris Dawson steps closer. Hi, how are you? Good to be here, man.

My brother, Chris, he was Angel's husband. Oh, okay. Chris, so you're Chris Dawson? Yeah. Chris Dawson is Angel's ex-boyfriend. Alex calls him his brother, but Chris Dawson is someone I've been planning to track down for an interview. Okay, good. You want to come with us then?

We'll chat about Angel and you guys want breakfast? Yeah. Okay, good. We'll probably do that. Kind of want to come with us then? We'll chat about Angel and you guys want breakfast? Yeah. Okay, good. We'll probably do that. Kind of want to grab some breakfast. Sure, yeah, let's do that. And we head out for breakfast. Can we go pick up my cousin?

Sure, yeah, we can pick up. I've got room for three probably. Around a few corners from where I picked up Alex and Chris, we pick up Krista, a slight, pleasant and smiling woman in big sunglasses. She's referred to by Alex and Chris as Alex's wife, but I'm told this means Krista and Alex are girlfriend-boyfriend. What's up? I'm David. Together the friends form a kind of support group for each other and especially I think for Alex. We head out to Tim Hortons for breakfast.

So left turn up here? That way? Yeah, that way. The sky has turned grayer and rainier, and we drive through it to a riverside park to settle at some wooden picnic tables under a gazebo. I think about her every day. Chris Dawson opens up first. Every day of my life. Every time I wake up,

until I go to sleep. I love the Angels. The Angels was my soldier, man. Always, always happy-go-lucky, that was her nickname. Happy-go-lucky. Yeah, it's a long time ago, it's hard to remember. Yeah, I know. I remember she looked so gorgeous the last time I saw her. My gosh, so beautiful.

Tell me about the last time you remember seeing her and what you remember from those times and that day. We were at, they call it Hoochie Park. We were all drinking there. That's the last time I saw her. We sort of split up. I had to go home. I had to walk. She didn't want to walk with me, so... Okay, I'm going home.

It's the last time I saw her. Chris would have been walking to his home in a subdivision here in Whitehorse that locals refer to as The Village. It's about 4 kilometres, or a 50-minute walk from downtown, and home to the Kwanlin Dun First Nation Headquarters. What time, what day, do you know what day that would have been? I know it was summertime. Nice and hot out. Yeah, we were all chilling out, having fun.

In police statements from the time, Dawson says he saw Angel at this park, which is referred to as LePage Park on a map, around 4 or 4.30pm. It's a near treeless concrete area at the centre of Whitehorse, behind the Sternwheeler Hotel. But police records also indicate that Dawson saw Angel again, later at another park around 7pm. The 420 park where Dawson told police he saw Angel borders a forested area at a cliffside below the airport in the southeast corner of Whitehorse, and is a favorite of locals for having parties and for people looking for a place to sleep or camp who have nowhere else to go. What do you remember, Alex, about seeing her?

She asked me if I had any money and she asked if I had a drink and I told her no. And then... I was like, spent all my money on your native grad. And then, that was the last time I seen her. Last time I saw her was at the after party. Oh, after grad? After grad. I saw her just like a glimpse of her and then all I heard was that she hopped in a cab. And that was the last I heard of her.

Did you hear about anybody else in the cab or any other people she'd been with that night? No. I just heard that she wanted to go home and she went home. And who told you that she went into a cab? Do you remember? No. No, I don't. It was a party after all. Big party. Yeah. Like, people yelling and everything. And that's the last I heard. Each year, high school graduates and their families and friends attend what is called a native grad as well.

Each of these grads has gatherings and parties associated with them, and it is during this very busy period that Angel disappeared. The timing of some of these events is known, but not that of others, and the stretch of time since that late spring of 2007 means that dates are more difficult, as is the process of constructing Angel's last moments. Many thought Angel had taken a trip somewhere but would be coming back. This begs the question, when exactly did the police start their investigation, and how thoroughly?

What tips did they receive, and did they chase every one? And I want to see these locations where Angel was allegedly last seen. Chris Dawson implies that all along, he's been a prime suspect. I got polygraphed four times. You got polygraphed? Four times. I'm like, why has God polygraphed me so many times, man? You don't believe me?

You know? I was like, fuck, man. What are you guys fucking investigating me? You should be out there fucking investigating shit, man. Not me. What kind of questions were they asking you? The same questions. It was the last time you seen her.

Last time you talked to her. I was drinking with her at Gucci Park. And we split up. She didn't want to come home with me, so, well, I got to go home. Yeah, it's pretty rough thinking about this. At least I got loved ones here with me. It's clear that Alex is struggling.

Got my wife right there, got my brother. It's the only thing that keeps me going. Alex's state of mind as we look into Angel's case is something I'm trying to attune to. Revisiting these traumatic experiences is always difficult, especially for family members. I look around and everyone is huddled up and starting to shiver. It's kind of cold out here, bud. I know, I'm sorry. I'm keeping you guys all freezing. We can keep chatting over the next few days and stuff. Yeah, I'll be there with my brother.

You guys are all cool to be together? It's nice that you're supporting each other here, eh? We leave the park, and since his room is now ready, I drop everyone off at Alex's hotel for the time being. We make a plan to meet up later. Oh, hey there. I'm Andrew Fung, and I want to tell you about my new series with Via Rail. Join me as I ride on from Toronto to Ottawa and London aboard Via Rail's new fleet of trains.

My journey was a breeze. No traffic jams, just smooth sailing. The seats are super comfy, and with complimentary Wi-Fi, I can work and play with ease. Plus, with meals and snacks on board, I arrived refreshed and ready to explore. From a boat cruise in Ottawa to the Grand Theatre in London, these cities are packed with amazing experiences. For your next trip, do yourself a favor, skip traffic and take Via Rail. Watch both episodes now on cbc.ca slash Via Rail. Paid content with Via Rail Canada. At Desjardins, we speak business.

We speak equipment modernization. We're fluent in data digitization and expansion into foreign markets. And we can talk all day about streamlining manufacturing processes. Because at Desjardins Business, we speak the same language you do. Business. So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us and contact Desjardins today we'd love to talk business just heading into Lori's place now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's too many cables in this fucking job. Alright, let's get this done. Oh. Oh, she's out in front. Oh, there she is. Hello. How are you? I'm good. How are you?

I'm good. Thanks for doing this. So is this the entrance? Is this the door here? Yeah. Laurie Strand lived with Angel at the time of Angel's disappearance, but she also took care of Angel and Alex for periods throughout their younger lives. Laurie is 40 years old and a member of the Southern Tuthoni Nation. She's about 5'9 and projects a reassuring aura of capability and determination. She says she'll do anything for Angel,

and she's taken time away from her work as a dental assistant and receptionist to help with the investigation. I was with Alex, and there was an entourage that would come with him every time, so that was... I'm not surprised. It was fine. It was good, actually. that I'm not surprised it was fine it was good actually I think offering support for him so it was it was good you may or may not know all of

them but Chris Dawson was there he was there Angel dated him for a bit yeah so it's quite small but I still live here because it's close to my work. We walk into Lori's comfortable-looking one-bedroom apartment. There's a north-facing large window and an open space that includes a small kitchen area, art photos on the walls, giant flat TV. Okay, okay. Angel lived here.

Angel lived here, yeah, and where that dreamcatcher is, she made that at the youth center. And her bed was underneath it, obviously. Oh, so here. But I have never touched it, I just leave it there for her. Pinned to the ceiling above what is now a dining table, a small circular dreamcatcher wrapped in a white vinyl strapping. At its center, a string matrix with small translucent yellow beads

along the strands. I take a picture of it hanging there, tiny against the room. Angel made this with her own hands about 15 years ago. It's now covered in dust.

The youth center where Angel made it was called the Blue Feather at the time. Angel worked there and helped in the kitchen as a cook and with various other enrichment activities for the youth in her community. I'll be looking into her time at Blue Feather, who she worked with, what people remember. Blue Feather is gone now, as is the building that housed it. And did Angel put that there? Yeah, she put that there. Do you want a cup of coffee or anything? I will not say no to that. Yeah. Thanks so much for helping with this because it's really hard to sort of break into the community and say, hey, I'm here to whatever, you know. It's nice. I was kind of wondering how Alex was going to do with it, but, I mean, it goes in waves,

and it really does depend on who he's with. He is one of the strongest people I know, just because not everybody experiences those events in their life. Is there a good place to sit, or where you want to? Wherever you want to. We grab two big mugs of coffee and sit on the couch. I can feel Laurie gathering herself for what she's expecting to come. So Angel slept there and you were in here and was there anyone else in the place? No, not at that time.

It was just the two of us, and we had a little Rubbermaid set of drawers for all of our clothes and everything. I asked Lori to back up and start at the beginning. Lori was dating a man named Miles Carlic at the time, who also goes by Miles Many Greyhorses. Miles is Angel and Alex's cousin, and it was through that connection at the age of 22 that Lori says she first came into contact with Wendy Carlick and her two children. Because Wendy was partying a lot then, and we didn't want her to lose the kids again. So we moved in to kind of regulate things and make sure that the

family was functioning. And then Miles and I moved into here, which Alex's group home is just down the street, and that way I was close by if they wanted to hang out. Wendy was a single parent? Yeah, Wendy was a single parent. Yeah, Wendy was a single parent. And Wendy had struggles, and because of that, both Alex and Angel were sort of brought in and out of the situation. Yeah. When I met Angel and Alex,

their mother moved up from Good Hope to have the kids go to school here, because the school in Good Hope Lake only went up to grade six I think and so they had to move to Whitehorse. We just didn't want Wendy to lose the house because she had a three-bedroom town row house yeah yeah and then things got better and Wendy was back on the ups you know and back on her. So we moved out and we got this place because it was close enough to the Taylor Street house. Right. And then when Alex went into the group homes again,

we were close enough. I can show you. It's just down the alley. Okay. And then Alex said that Angel tried to get him out of the group home at some point. Yeah. Was that to bring him here? No, it was just her goal to get done school, get a job, and to get Alex. Like, she wanted it to be the two of them and have a stable home.

And that was her goal. And she talked about, like, when she's older, she wanted to help kids in her situation you know and I just wanted her to get an education like I was like just go be a dentist or go be a nurse like get a established career because she was really brilliant yeah yeah Lori describes lives and childhoods disrupted she and Miles were young and just building the relationship when they took Angel and Alex in, and they weren't that much older than Angel and Alex at the time either. How was Miles with them, and over time did it change, or was it always the same? I always pushed him to be more of a male role model figure for them,

but he always kept it as like a brother relationship, and I didn't really agree with it because, I mean, a young man needs somebody to mentor them. Miles very much liked his video games and would spend hours on them, and I'm like, why don't you go take him skating or something? When I met Angel and Alex Alex was this cute little boy his ears were so big he had to like grow into his ears and Angel was just sweet she was really quiet and she liked helping me in the kitchen she was a

better cook than me um probably would still be. She's thoughtful in small ways. Just little things like I like candles so sometimes you know if she had some extra money and she was by the dollar store she'd buy like a little candle like whatever. She'd always be cleaning, moving around. Movie nights and stuff were fun. She liked to crack little jokes here and there. I asked Lori how Angel came back to live with her in this apartment closer to the time she disappeared. I'm always lending out a hand helping somebody. I just like to help people, I guess.

But what happened was she had a place up in the village with her boyfriend Chris and she would call me periodically and be like I'm hungry I don't have any money for food and I would just like raid my cupboards and bring things up to her and then I don't know what happened between her and her ex there. And she's like, I don't want to stay there anymore. I want to stay with you. It's right on the bus route. And I was like, yeah, okay, come on in. So that's Chris you're talking about, what happened with her ex.

So how long was it between the point where something happened with Chris and she moved in here permanently or semi-permanently? I think about a year. A year. Okay, so quite a long time. Like a school year. Like a school year. So she was here for a year before she disappeared. Who was she hanging around with at the time? You said her partner. Was that Chris that you came back and saw them

partying? No, it was Mark at the time. Okay. And Mark, what's his last name? Porter? Yeah. Mark Porter. Mark Porter was reportedly dating Angel at the time she disappeared. She and Chris Dawson had broken up months before that. Porter doesn't seem to be in town at the moment, so I set him aside for now. And I don't really ever remember her dating anyone else other than them, too. I can be really, like, of a dry personality dry personality if I like I didn't really warm up to them. I just wanted her to focus on school more than boys and going partying and stuff. When she went missing she was partying a lot and like we'd get noise complaints like I came home

once and her and her partner were really drunk and um I was really upset and so if I knew she was partying a little too much I would take the key away and be like okay if you're gonna party all weekend and I don't I'm leaving town as well like I can't get us kicked out so that's my biggest regret is the weekend she went missing I knew she was gonna be partying and I didn't want her to have a party and I wasn't here. So I took the key away. And yeah, it's like the hardest, like it was that decision that really kicks me in the butt. Things could have been different. Well, that's a connection that you might make, but it might have made absolutely no difference too.

So, you know, you have to measure that. Laurie tells me more about the after-grad party that was planned for that weekend. Casual, unsupervised, and popular. And the after-grad party would start at what, like 9 o'clock or something? Probably 8 or 9, yeah. Where was it? I think it's still out at Chadburn Lake. I can show you. I'll be looking to speak with others about this party at Chadburn.

I ask Lori if she has any photos of Angel. I do have one. I put it away for safekeeping. So she was getting really excited for graduation, and I gave her money to go get her high school graduation photo, and she's all kind of glammed up in it. It's really hard for me to see it every day. Anything else that belonged to Angel, Lori says she was careful to give it back to her family.

And within my culture, you put everything away for a year, and I kept it for the year and then gave it back to the family. Everything that was hers, I made sure her grandmother and her mother got it back to Good Hope. But Lori did keep the dream catcher and something else. I've had this coat in my closet for years. Just keep it as we keep saying. Nothing special, but... It's a small coat

that still looks new. It's DC. It was one of her favorite brands. I honestly don't know where she got this coat, but she wore it and it's kind of rain jacket-y. It looks like a boy's coat to me. I don't know.

So it's got kind of like a pattern, sort of one of those endless patterns. Does it have an inside pocket on it? Inside? Oh, yeah. Anything in it? No. When she first went missing, it kind of smelled like her, so I would just kind of like cuddle with it. But, yeah, it doesn't smell like her anymore.

Lori's memories of Angel intensify as she traces the design on the coat with her fingers. She smiles as she presses the fabric to her heart. And then, a tear forms. The thing with Angel's Killer, what really freaks me out is this person is probably close enough in this small community that I might be greeting this person with happy, joyous moments. You know, like I might be happy to see this person. And they have this dark secret. And i honestly believe that somebody in this community knows and they're just choosing not to say and letting alex and the rest of angel's family including myself be tortured

because there's not a day that goes by that you don't think of her and it might be something little like when my nephew he we were at the beach last summer and he had dirty feet and I was washing them in the lake and I was thinking like angel just popped into my head and I thought of her little stubby feet you know and a lot of her little stubby feet, you know? And a lot of her friends are parents now, and you know, like, I could be another auntie, like, to her kids. I'm probably gonna eat one of those in a second. It's okay.

Sorry to make you go through all this. No, it's okay. I don't really talk about her outside of my trusted circle of friends and family. It's hard. You know? You lost your phone? Hey bud, could you phone her phone? She lost her phone.

What the fuck? Right beside you. You lost it right next to yourself. Back in my rental car with Alex, Chris, and Krista. I got to be down here anyways, actually, at 3. You got to talk to the prosecutor? Yeah. I wouldn't mind seeing what happens with that,

but I can't be there at two places at once, so you can tell me what happens with that, but I can't be there at two places at once. So you can tell me what happens after that, maybe. Alex is talking about visiting prosecutors in Whitehorse, but I have another interview booked and cannot go with him, even if they would allow me to be there. But the prosecutors aren't connected to his sister Angel's case. They're working on his mother's, Wendy. If it's not going to happen the way that I want it, if I'm not going to get justice for my mom,

I want you to make sure that the whole fucking world knows what happened. Well, for sure they're going to know what happened to your sister and your mom. In 2017, Alex's mother, Wendy Carlic, was also murdered. Sarah McIntosh, a friend Wendy was with at the time, was killed too. A man named Everett Chief was arrested and convicted for both crimes. And Alex wants to make sure Chief is given a proper sentence. Neither Wendy nor Sarah's murder has been deemed by police to be connected to Angel's. But either way, Alex has been left alone.

We drive into the empty parking lot of a Staples store. It's raining, and as we all get out of the car, none of us have raincoats. On the expansive wall in front of us, the entire side of the store is a gigantic painted mural. Angel and her mother Wendy's faces side by side, rendered over six feet high, bordered by two wolves, colored clouds, and traditional northwestern eagles. Angel herself used to help paint murals just like this around Whitehorse as part of her job for Bluefeather. Alex has been here many times. Is it a good likeness? Yeah.

I helped paint these wolves. What goes through your head when you see this? Too much fucking wood. You know we lost a lot of people in this last year, right? Well, if you want to get a picture of us, like, let's do this. And, like, I want to get the fuck out of here. Okay, stand right here. And we do.

I drop Alex, Chris, and Krista off at the hotel and drive along the road closest to the river. I'm not sure where this is going to go, but I feel the need to be here on the ground even more strongly now. What does justice look like in this case? Maybe there will be some healing. Maybe Alex and Angel's friends will benefit from this process. I'm ready to keep going, dissolve as many rumors as I can, find the people who know. I see a raven flying straight down the center of the river. I have my support group too.

How far did police get? Did they look into any tips? The woman who approached Alex? Where was the last confirmed sighting of Angel? And who was she with? What happened to Angel Carleck? This season on Someone Knows Something, the Angel Carlic case.

I always just lose the look back and like wish that I didn't let her go alone. I had an experience during the time Angel was missing and it always sort of haunted me. Whoever did this didn't expect she would ever be found again. That is my belief as well. So after that was said, I felt like, wow, I might have some really serious information towards this case. All he said was, like, don't make me do to you

what I did to Angel Carleck or something like that. And he straight up told me that he would put me under the ground like my little friend Angel and nobody would know what happened to me either. Thank you. Evan Kelly. Natalia Ferguson is our transcriber. Emily Connell is our digital producer. Chris Oak is our story editor. Our executive producer is Cecil Fernandez. And the director of CBC Podcasts is Arif Noorani.

If you want to help new listeners discover the show, please rate and review wherever you listen. Find us on Facebook by searching Someone Knows Something or on Instagram at CBC Podcasts. You can hear next week's episode now by searching for the CBC Podcasts channel on YouTube, or you can hear all seven episodes today by subscribing to the CBC True Crime Premium channel on Apple Podcasts, where you can binge the full season ad-free.

Just click on the link in the show description. If you're looking for more investigations, check out the past seasons of Someone Knows Something, from a mysterious bomb hidden in a flashlight to two teenagers killed by the KKK. Find Someone Knows Something on the CBC Listen app or wherever you get your podcasts. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.