Someone Knows Something - S8 E7: Take it to the Limit

Episode Date: October 30, 2023

The final episode in the unsolved case of Angel Carlick. David follows a new lead — and finally gets in touch with someone at the centre of a compelling tip.

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Watch both episodes now on cbc.ca slash Via Rail. Paid content with Via Rail Canada. This is a CBC Podcast. Hey Trevor, it's Dave Ridgen here. Sorry I wasn't able to get back to you right away there up in the Yukon. It was a pretty hectic and troubling case and situation. So anyway, I'm on my way out for now. I'm still working on it, of course, but I'd like to catch up with you guys and hope you're well. Talk soon. Take care. Bye. Departing Yukon and returning a call to Trevor Brown,

the brother of 15-year-old Carrie Brown, who was murdered in Thompson, Manitoba in 1986. Carrie's case is one I continue to look at extensively. All of my investigations continue long after the final episode of the podcast is published, and the relationships I build during those investigations remain important to me. Long-term grief and trauma is a patient and unpredictable thing, so I want to check in to make sure that everyone is alright. Trevor and all the family members I've worked with have provided ongoing support for me, whether they knew it or not, since I met and worked closely with them

over many years. But Trevor isn't home. He's at his new job at a Thompson grocery store. So I decide to take the long way home and stop in at Good Hope Lake, Northern British Columbia, one more time, to pay my respects to Angel and Wendy. Just stopped into Wendy and Angel's resting place just down the street from the Good Hope Lake community. Got some photos of the grave and flowers plastic flowers beautiful setting

but Wendy has a beautiful carving out there above her grave area there's not much else to say really so I'll be back hope I can make a difference here. Hope so. Leaving Whitehorse was very difficult for me,

but I think I can make some inroads from a distance, and there is still a ton to look into. The father, who allegedly said he did something to Angel. Jason Benecke from Pilot Mountain whom police said was a person of interest. The tip about the suspicious man in the truck. The taxi driver. And a new and compelling tip. Hello?

Hi, it's Dave Ridgen here. Thanks so much for your emails. Yeah, you've reached the right guy. So tell me what you know or think you know or have heard about Angel's case. So I was actually friends with her. So I have definitely gotten myself around some people that you probably shouldn't be around. One of them was an ex-member of the RCMP. I'm David Ridgen, and this is Someone Knows Something, Season 8, The Angel Carlet Case,

Episode 7, Take It to the Limit. Right away, I had red flags. And I didn't want to be around him, and I didn't want to anything, but it was a mutual friend's birthday, so we were out. And he had made several comments about not being safe to be around, and that, you know, if anybody knew what he had done, he just sort of put them away. This woman, who I will refer to as Jane, reached out to me and, fearing for her safety, has agreed to speak on the condition of confidentiality. Her tip all starts, she says, with a now ex-RCMP officer who at one time worked with the Whitehorse Detachment, someone she met in the winter of 2014 or 2015

at a local bar one night after being introduced to him through mutual friends. But in this instance, me and this fellow had gotten into an actual fight. And he straight up told me that he would put me under the ground like my little friend Angel and nobody would know what happened to me either.

Okay, and so the circumstances were, how did the fight start, for example? Let's start there. I dumped a pitcher of beer on his head because he called me a cunt. And what bar was it? The Copper King. Okay. Is that bar still there? Yes. He felt like I bar still there? Yes. He felt like I was leading his cousin on.

And then I poured the pitcher of beer over his head. And yeah, he told me not to fuck around or he would do what he did to my little friend Angel. Something like that. I can't remember the exact. But it was frightening and it was enough for me to not have anything to do with him. It was enough to sober me up. Now, did he say under the ground? Did he say put you under the ground? Is that his exact words? I mean, it was, I can't say for sure if that was the exact terms because I was, you know, quite intoxicated. And, you know, this is a long time ago now.

The Copper King Bar is located along the Alaska Highway just north of downtown Whitehorse. I've just heard two quite different versions of what was allegedly said. If either of the utterances were made to Jane, both imply at least that this man may know something about what happened to Angel. Jane tells me what happened next. He flipped out, and then I just like, I immediately dodged him as he was sort of swinging at me. Apparently he went after the bartender too,

but I had vacated. And was there anybody else present there? There was a lot of people there. I'm not sure, you know, who all knew this. I have talked to my one friend and she swears that this person would never do that. Does she recall hearing him say that? No. Okay.

And is there anybody that you've been able to find that was there that night, for example, that remembers hearing him utter those words? No. Okay. And is there anybody that you've been able to find that was there that night, for example, that remembers hearing him utter those words? No. Jane tells me that except for her and her friend, many of the people at the Copper King that night were friends or family of the ex-RCMP officer. And how did he know that you knew Angel? I talked about her a lot. How long did you know Angel and under what circumstances? Well, under not very good circumstances, we drank together.

I wouldn't go so far as to say best friends or we were having sleepovers at each other's places or anything, but we were definitely friends. All she wanted to do was help people and how old were you when you knew her like you know this must have been 17 okay and then what year was that 2000 and I would say between 2003 and 2006 I want to get back to that night, searching for more detail, when Jane volunteers something surprising to the equation. And then there was another fellow who arrived that night and picked something up. I have no idea what it was.

Another fellow who picked something up from the man who threatened her. His name was Jason Benecke, and he is since deceased, I guess. How did you bring in that name? Can you just back up and tell me how Jason Benecke fits in? He just showed up there. He had some sort of business to do with the other gentleman. Jason Benecke was there that night when you poured the beer on his head? Yes, he was, but shortly.

Jason Benecke. A person of interest in Angel's case who lived on Pilot Mountain. Jane has no idea that I have looked at Jason Benecke. She has no idea that he was an RCMP person of interest. The connectivity could mean absolutely nothing. But it certainly grabbed my attention. How does his name come into this tip about this RCMP guy? They both went outside, and then the other gentleman came back inside. I don't know what

they did, but I do know that Jason carried some pretty serious guilt about something that had happened. I happen to know Jason through his sister and there was something that had happened in 2007 during a time when he was known to be, you know, using drugs heavily, and the gentleman had referred to Jason as his worker. What Jane knows about Jason and what she suspects are different things. I have no idea if Jane knows anything about Jason Benecke. But when she says that she knows his family, I jump at the chance to make another connection with them. But she says she's not been in touch with them for a long time.

I try contacting Jason's brother, his sister, and his father, on the phone, in email, and on Facebook. None get back to me. I think they must have received my extensive messages, but I cannot be sure. I do not mention Jason in the messages, just that I want to talk to people who lived on Pilot Mountain at the time of Angel's disappearance. They may know nothing. They may not want to talk after they lost Jason. Nobody can or should guess the reasons. Okay, so but Jason Benecke is not the person you're telling me you poured the beer on? No. Okay. But Jason is, is in some way connected to that person you're saying? 100%. Tell me a bit more, if you know any more about Jason Benecke, like his behavior,

anything he used to do out at Pilot Mountain there? He used to do drugs. I never actually hung out with him when he was living out at Pilot Mountain. I do know that that's where the family lived and where all the kids grew up. Okay, and how do you know he used to do drugs? Because I used to do drugs. With him? I have done drugs with him. I've bought drugs off of him. I mean, the list goes on to how I know he does that, or did that.

Using drugs or selling them doesn't mean the person doing it had anything to do with killing someone, let alone Angel. I include the details here because they are intertwined with the story I'm being told about this former RCMP officer. I'll have to ask Corporal Simpson about him. Maybe they've already ruled him out. I asked Jane if she ever talked to RCMP about her experience. I tried to come forward with the RCMP and when I went through with the, like started to talk to them and I gave the name of the person, he stopped me immediately, asked me if I was sure I wanted to proceed with the statement and with the information and that they couldn't guarantee my safety and I stopped right there. And then after that you said, see you later. So tell me who this person is that you dumped the beer on.

And she tells me. I'm keeping his name anonymous for now and shall refer to him as M. Currently mid-50s, born in the Yukon and lived there for most of his life, he became an officer with the Whitehorse RCMP in the late 80s. Over a 15-year span, M established a pattern of violence and misconduct resulting in internal RCMP investigations with unknown results. From what I can tell, he worked for some time in Alberta, but then left law enforcement on his own. His charges include dangerous driving, assault, harassment, uttering threats, mischief, and one for weapons. By 2007, he was back in Whitehorse where he was in and out of jail or on probation.

But in the weeks surrounding Angel's disappearance, he was not incarcerated. M was harassing a woman at the time that had had a restraining order placed on him. A couple of days before Angel disappeared, outside of the Casa Loma Motel bar, about 20 kilometers south of Pilot Mountain, M beat a man so badly that the victim was unable to dial 911 on his phone and spent a week in hospital, unable to walk. Documents around this May 2007 assault say M was trying to find cocaine that night. In November 2007, he was sentenced to 10 months in jail and two years probation. Witnesses at the trial said that M's temper took over. Was this the same temper that Jane

allegedly witnessed when she met him seven years later. Did you ever say **** again after that incident? Uh, yeah. But I never got out of my vehicle and I didn't talk to him. Like, I wanted nothing to do with him. I wonder if our CMP would have kept any partial tip-on file or even a record of the call Jane says she made. Jane says she's sure she gave her name, but she did not give her phone number and no police ever called her back. If I'm going to follow this lead, I'll need more information. Oh hey, is this Mike? Yeah, it is indeed. Hey Mike, it's Dave Ridgen calling. How are you?

Corporal Simpson in Whitehorse. Phone reception is poor because of his location. After a chat about police procedure and recording tips, it seems to vary with the individual, I move right in to M. So I won't go into total detail on the tip, but I'm basically trying to find truth markers and just wanted to understand the truth of the matter

and what was being told to me. So with the tip involved, a former RCMP officer named... Is that a name that's familiar to you? No, not at all. Simpson says he looks through Angel's file, but he doesn't remember hearing or seeing the name. I kind of need to get a little bit deeper into it, but you can't say you remember seeing the name in there?

No, just a quick search. There's not a name I know. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Simpson says there's no mention of M in Angel's file. No record of the tip. I need to find M. Oh, hey there!

I'm Andrew Fung, and I want to tell you about my new series with Via Rail. Join me as I ride on from Toronto to Ottawa and London aboard Via Rail's new fleet of trains. My journey was a breeze. No traffic jams, just smooth sailing. The seats are super comfy, and with complimentary Wi-Fi, I can work and play with ease. Plus, with meals and snacks on board, I arrived refreshed and ready to explore. From a boat cruise in Ottawa to the Grand Theatre in London, these cities are packed with amazing experiences. For your next trip, do yourself a favor, skip traffic and take Via Rail. Watch both episodes now on cbc.ca slash Via Rail.

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I'm going to try calling where he lives now and see what he has to say about comments I heard from a tipster who called and said that they had met at a bar, a bar called the Copper King. The number you have reached is not in service. Please check the number and try your call again. No, you're kidding. Try that again. Fuck me.

The number you have reached is not in service. Come on. Okay, that number was out of service, so I think I'll have to try to call... ...his brother, who I think he might live with. So hopefully this call will go through. The number you have reached is not in service. Please check the number and try your call again. That number also out of service.

Let's try again. The number you have reached is not in service. Oh, that sucks. Come on. Please check the number and try your call again. After many different attempts, I can't get a hold of him to verify what, if anything, was said that night at the Copper King.

Hello? But there is someone who I am able to catch up with. Someone I've been very interested in talking to. Hang on, I'm just pulling my vehicle over. Okay. Okay, hi there. Who am I talking to?

I've been told that the man I've just reached had said something inculpatory or self-incriminating about Angel. I heard it from two people, Amber and Wesley. Like all I could remember was they said, don't make me do to you what I did to Angel Carly. So I finally found this man and he has pulled over at the side of a highway to talk to me. I tell him who I am and that I'm calling about Angel's case. I'm not very good way with words, but... Yeah, it's definitely a case that needs to be solved. And I had a tip come in that said that they had heard your son telling a story one night about something that you had said to him in an argument.

And I just want to know if you remember this argument, just so I can verify this. You said something like, don't make me do to you what I did to Angel Carlic or something like that. So basically saying you had done something to Angel. Do you remember that conversation? No, I don't. Did you mention Angel to him is the thing? No.

Had you ever met Angel before? No, I hadn't. but i was working down at uh watson lake that summer i'm a road builder and um we were home the morning the choppers were flying out because my wife and i were flying out on holiday my ex-wife okay and so when they came to interview the neighbors my son and his friends were there and they just asked if i would mind calling in when they got back oh okay so so i did and i answered all the questions that i could. And then I moved down to Alberta in 2010. All right, so you divorced or left your wife, I guess, and then went to Alberta?

Basically, yeah. Recall this tip originated from this man's son. Based on people I've spoken to, the father-son dynamic isn't great. What's your relationship like with your son right now? I haven't talked to him for two years. Okay. And I'm not allowed to talk to my wife or daughter for another two, three years.

So you can tell me you didn't do anything to Angel then, yourself? I didn't know the girl. I think I met her dad in Watson Lake. But no, I had nothing to do with that. Why do you think he would have come up with that? Why would he have told his friend that story, do you think? To say his dad said that about Angel Carleck. I have no idea.

He denies doing anything to Angel. He denies making any statement to his son to that effect. His son is near impossible to find, unhoused and unstable. Where to go with a tip like this? So just so you know, because I know that you were extremely upset about that interview, I just wanted you to know that he had denied it. Yeah. I let Lori know I spoke to the man involved in Amber's tip, and she knows the other people I'm still trying to contact to ask questions. The former RCMP officer, the taxi driver who may have lived in Pilot Mountain,

the fellow who a tipster says she saw in a red truck out on Pilot Mountain, who she says used to proposition indigenous women. All are proving difficult to locate, and if anybody can help, please let me know. But I will keep trying. So rest assured that the investigation's continuing. This is the point where I'm making all these calls and trying to get people to talk to me. So, I mean, part of the benefit of being up there with you

was that everybody wanted to talk to me because you were there, and I wouldn't have been able to do anything without you there. So you know that, right? I think so, yeah. that everybody wanted to talk to me because you were there and I wouldn't have been able to do anything without you there. So you know that, right? I think so, yeah. Yeah, because who's going to talk to me?

Like, you know, just in a short period of time, like, you know, I would have to stay up there for months to get people to talk to me. And, you know, I think just being you really helped make that happen so the podcast basically is going to be dedicated to you and to Alex because I wouldn't have been able to do any of it and it was really upsetting and I was glad you were there with me

because it was a tough thing to share it was you don't have to it's just you know like over a year's time you your brain really your mind wanders yeah yeah like personally it's been a bit of a healing journey like i can talk about angel without bursting into tears. And just people knowing that there are people still looking for her, it's also, because it's not just me,

there's been friends that have come up to me and said, I've always wondered what happened. And I'm like, oh, it's still unsolved, but if we keep it out there, you know, it can be solved. I full-heartedly believe that. Working cases for me takes many months, even years. Through that time, I stay in touch with the family members and friends I've worked with to see if anything has changed in the aftermath of the initial work, but also if anything has changed for them.

Since my trip to Whitehorse, I've stayed in contact with both Alex and Lori. Alex is doing very well at work back in Good Hope Lake. Lori has, like Alex, been feeling the brunt of Angel's disappearance for years. And Lori, being in Whitehorse, has also tirelessly worked to help me with any request I have. And then with working on the case again, it made me realize what a healing journey I've already done from the time that she went missing to when she was found to a few years later, just going through all those motions to where I am now and kind of seeing that how Angel molded me, not just from when she was alive and here,

but as a First Nations woman going through this, you know, and noticing that I'm not the only one that has unanswered questions. It also makes me feel a lot closer to her. Just, you know, there's parts of her I didn't know, and now I know them. And, you know, it just, it brings more of her to a full picture, not just what I thought of her or saw her as. It was how her friends saw her and her acquaintances, her co-workers. You know, it brings her back to life a little. Calm, quiet.

She always had a hug and a smile. Always. She was an awesome girl, and we lost a great contributor to society. I think about her every day in my life. Always, always, happy-go-lucky, that was her nickname. Happy Bull Lucky. You know, one of the things that we do with the dead is that we paint them up to this great grand picture and we kind of smudge over their rough edges and we create something quite wonderful and beautiful

and there was parts that I ultimately edited out and then it brings her back into a full-rounded picture and helps me with my healing journey not making up events or situations in my head that are like well you know she did party and she did have a wild side, but she was still a beautiful person. That is healing that I, you know, you see a whole rounded young girl and a lot of her friends at this age, like she just had her 35th birthday and a lot of her friends have children or just having children or engaged and it makes me wonder, like, would she have smoothened those rough edges? Would she be a mother?

What would Angel's life have been like had she not disappeared in the summer of 2007? Here's what we know about her case so far. Angel Carlec was discovered in a grave four to six feet deep on Pilot Mountain, Yukon, just as the snow began to fall in November 2007. Forensic evidence to date has provided no useful leads. Angel was brought here by a person or possibly multiple people who had likely been here before and never ever thought she would be found. Her mother Wendy was Angel's voice along with Alex her brother and then Wendy was murdered and it's just Alex now looking for answers. But Lori and a community of family and friends of Angel are there with him.

It's been a privilege to be addressed here by the community with a respect we all must return. Because the real justice is in the listening, the making of space for storytelling, and for learning about our mistakes and our transgressions. Real justice is about our support of each other, a far greater power than any, and for it not to go to waste.

The work here is not done. This is the final planned episode in the case of Angel Karlik, but the investigation continues. If you have any information regarding her murder, the time to come forward is now. I'm praying to the ancestors all the time to help Ethan and myself and obviously the rest of Angel's friends and family. And I just think that paying attention

to the other cases on around Canada you know you get a feeling that you you're not alone in it it's very hard and everything is individualized but it's also a whole at the same time I went to Ottawa and we did a gathering and we just talked about our daughters and sons and show them pictures and tell them stories and how government should work together and figure out how to make it a stronger situation so government can push more and then things will happen because you know everybody's involved when they investigate a missing and

murdered person there's a lot of people involved and why it's not happening I don't know why is it taking so long? I really do not know. Thank you. Sound design by Evan Kelly. Natalia Ferguson is our transcriber. Emily Connell is our digital producer. Our podcast art was designed by Ellie Koda. Our cross-promo producer is Amanda Cox. Our video producer is Evan Agard. Special thanks to Phelan Johnson. Executive producers are Cecil Fernandez and Chris Oak. Tanya Springer is our senior manager.

Arif Noorani is the director. And Leslie Merklinger is the executive director of CBC Podcasts. If you want to help new listeners discover the show, please rate and review wherever you listen. Find us on Facebook by searching Someone Knows Something or on Instagram at CBC Podcasts. You can also stream someone knows something on youtube just search for cbc podcasts if you're looking for more investigations check out the

past seasons of someone knows something from a mysterious bomb hidden in a flashlight to two teenagers killed by the kkk find someone knows something on the cbc listen app or wherever you get your podcasts.