Someone Knows Something - S9 E3: Stay

Episode Date: November 20, 2024

The case against Anthony Ringel falls apart and he is freed. And Mary Ann says she's been kept in the dark. How did it happen, and is Anthony Ringel even guilty of what he says?

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I couldn't live with myself if I caused someone else to die. I said, no, the justice will come to him when his time's due. Things did not go as planned for the Crown's prosecution of Anthony Ringle for the murder of Christine Herron. This, despite Ringle's meanderings, threw several consistent confessions to having killed her. So you killed Christine Herron? I need an answer.

Yes. Okay. So how do you feel after you've told, do you feel better that you've got this off your chest? A little. A little little okay. We do know the OPP made a mistake. Did they tell you that? Yes. Yeah?

Yes. When did they tell you that? After the case was over. And how did they justify that mistake to you? They just came out and said there was nothing more they could do. They were very sorry they didn't realize. Ringo's defense lawyer, Steven Gell, outlines police errors at pretrial for Judge R.M. Thompson.

Investigators did not follow normal police or correct constitutional protocols. Do you wish to say anything in answer to the charge? May not require you to say anything unless you would do so. Ringel was in police custody for 37 hours, but was only properly read his full cautions and rights once, five hours after he had been brought in. He spoke by phone to legal counsel on three occasions for less than 20 minutes in total. Ringel told police repeatedly that he had no comment.

minutes in total. Ringle told police repeatedly that he had no comment. Regardless, under command of Detective Inspector Wright, police continued to interview Ringle and elicit statements. A police officer's placed you under arrest for murder, right? Murder of Christine Herron. And he's given you your rights to counsel, which means he's told you you can call a lawyer. And we just got off the phone with one just a moment ago, correct?

So you're very aware of your rights, correct? And you understand? Thank you. Officers didn't always take notes or record interviews as the law requires. And another egregious error, again overseen by Mark Wright, is when officers Wright and Graham accompany Ringel in the Hanover woods to look for Christine's body, after Ringel repeatedly tells them that a lawyer has advised him not to go. Ringel tells Graham that it is not in his best interest and that it would only hurt him more.

Whereupon Graham says, that's enough, let's get going. We're okay? Mm-hmm. Do you think you'll be able to find it easily? I don't know. I was very upset with all the mistakes they were making. They know better. There was no need for that. Especially even out at the park, nothing was recorded. Nothing was wrote down, what was said. The attempted search for Chrissie's remains with Ringel took a couple of hours even though

the terrain demanded something much more thorough. They recorded no audio or video with only Graham making a few notes the next day from memory. No, that's something that anybody with common sense would have done. We do want accountability. Right. Kristi would just want the... She wouldn't want us to dwell on the anger. Kristine would just want justice to prevail.

She wouldn't want it to happen to somebody else. She wouldn't want it to happen to someone else. Judge Thompson, in his pre-trial ruling, finds that Ringle knows exactly what he's saying and makes voluntary statements on a number of occasions. Despite that, Thompson throws out all statements and actions from Ringle from the moment Detective Inspector Mark Wright arrives on the scene, including the entire search for Christine's remains on the western side of the Saugine River. Ringle's statements to his family and to Constable Lipsky, however, are allowed into evidence,

along with only the first police interview with Ringle, where he made no admissions. Detective Inspector Wright said he did his job by reading Ringle his rights and it was up to him whether he wanted to invoke them. Judge Thompson, however, criticized his rights, saying either he had no knowledge or understanding of the Charter of Rights or he deliberately chose to trample all over Mr. Ringle's rights as a Canadian citizen in defiance of the law.

What he hoped to accomplish would be pure speculation but what is known is that his hinder any attempt to prosecute Mr. Ringel. I just think it's such a weird situation. You guys are sort of paralyzed with this guy who said he killed your daughter and was going to go through the court system. Mm-hmm. Silly mistakes. After over 20 months in jail, awaiting trial, Ringel is freed after Crown Prosecutor Michael Martin stays the case against him. After a year with a stay in place and no new evidence brought forward, the case against

Anthony Ringle crumbles to nothing as if it never happened. Can anything be done to change that? I'm David Rigeon and this is Someone Knows Something Season 9, the Christine Herron case, Episode 3, Stay. Makes you wonder about the legal system when, you know, they have to let somebody go like that. News of the Wrinkle case collapsing reverberates throughout Hanover and area. It was sort of pushed off to the side. It was big news for maybe a day or two, and then it just sort of went to the wayside again.

No idea. What would make somebody say they did that? I have no idea about that either. They didn't do that. I have no idea. Just, you know, when you hear stuff at the time on the radio, he said she said what happened by that stove. I can't comprehend that. From what you know about Wrangle, how do you think that situation would have played out? I have no idea. I have no idea how they met.

I still don't. And Chrissy's mother, Mary Ann, and her stepfather, Sean, struggle with many questions. After Mary Ann and her stepfather Sean struggle with many questions. He was older than her. Christine was 15 at the time and Anthony Ringle I believe was 24. I did not know Anthony Ringle myself. I don't believe anyone in the family knew Anthony. I don't recall Christine knowing Anthony Ringle. So how their paths crossed is unbeknown to us.

This is where I came into the process and where my investigations began back in 2010 and 2011, picking up the pieces. So that's the ruling of the Superior Court on the case of Anthony Ringle, September 26th. And the judge is? Thompson. Thompson. Yep. Nothing had happened in the case until Ringle came forward 11 years after Chrissy disappeared.

Then the case against him failed and Ringle was free. Mary Ann and Sean weren't told much except that Ringle had said he killed Christine. Oh, I asked to. And the police wouldn't let me. Oh, I definitely wanted to. Like, there's no reason he can't tell us what happened. So, I mean, why not come forward, you know, if he didn't mean to and it was accidental, okay.

We just want to know what actually happened. Like right from day one that I wanted to speak with him and they wouldn't let me, Theo Pee Pee. I said, well, at least ask him, maybe he'd be willing to sit down and talk to me. And I know his sister and his mother, any time they see me in a store, they laughed. So yeah, to this day, I still want to sit down and talk to him. Maybe as we go on, I can tell you a couple of things I did.

Maybe I shouldn't have. Because I was upset. So tell me. What I did? Yeah. Well, he lived with his mother, right? My little red neon with the flames on it and whatnot, there's a written mural on it.

And that car is one of a kind. And there's no way he could have mistaken it for no one else but me. I deliberately went over there a few times and I sat there and watched that house. And what was I after? To hurt him? No. But I wanted him to know that we were not about to forget, not for one minute. And then the OPP told me, goes, you do that anymore. We're going to have to charge you with stalking, Sean. And you're going to be in jail. So I was told, stay the hell away.

We're just trying to understand what happened and why. And did you do it? Yeah, that's where we're at. Did you do it? Why? If you did do it. So Marianne, tell me what we're doing this morning. This morning we're going to see if Anthony Ringo will speak to me. Just try to get some answers out of him. If he actually did something to Christine or why he confessed if he didn't.

Just find out what was in his mind at that time. What are your anticipations of what he might say? just find out what was in his mind at that time. What are your anticipations of what he might say? I'm hoping he'll explain what happened to her and maybe show that he's sorry for what he did. Just see what he says or if he'll even talk it all to me. I want to talk to him ever since they first arrested him and if he didn't why would he confess to something that he didn't do.

We've never had any answers to any of our questions to know what really happened. I'm truly hoping that Anthony Wrangel will speak with Mary Ann. Out of human decency, he tried to explain what he did. Like I said earlier and other times, if it's an accident, please try and explain and help us understand what happened and why. It's been a long time for us even to be able to try to approach Anthony Ringle. So I hope we have a positive outcome today. have a positive outcome today. The address I have for Ringle is I think that of a relative, his sister. Normally when I want to go to someone's house and knock on the door I will want to scope

things out a bit to see how the place works. So that's what we do. Marianne is eager to get in front of Ringel and because of her calm and straightforward demeanor she may be able to get him to say something. It's a big step for her to take. It's going to be on the right, so I'll tell you when it's up here somewhere. I'd go a bit faster, Sean. They don't want to put out any suspicions. It's going to be on the right, so we're just going to look at it quickly on the way by. Mary Ann is calm in the back seat, and Sean seems like a rock behind the wheel.

There it is right there. Rick Hose, White Cat. Right behind that gray van is a good spot. It's pretty close to your grandparents' little place, Mary. Yeah. Let's pull in there. Yeah. So remember when you talk to Mary Ann, it's what he said, right?

Not why did you kill her, but why did you say you killed her? Yes. So pull right up behind that van if you can. Hang on a sec, that's good there, Sean. Let's go. Marianne and I carefully leave the van and roll the sliding door shut behind us. Sean pulls ahead a short distance. He's staying behind, afraid of how he may react in Ringle's presence. Mary Ann is already moving with purpose toward the house and I catch up. You're good. Front door, side door.

Side door. A woman who appears to be in her late 40s, hair pulled back, pink t-shirt, opens the door and pokes her head out, trying to keep the screen door closed enough to keep her dog in. Hi. Hi. Is Anthony home?

He's still sleeping. See? Could you wake up? I just wanted to talk to him. Okay. Can I... Who are you? It's Marianne. Marianne. Restworm. Do I know you or...? I don't think so.

I don't think we've ever met. Hi. The name sounds like... I see you have woken up my son. I just want to talk to Anthony for a little bit. About what? I just want to ask him some questions to do with Christine. I'm going to say no.

Can we leave it up to him and see what he'll talk to me? I already know he'll say no. Just ask him and see. That's his sister. Yeah. The door closes and almost immediately so does the deadbolt. But once Ringle's sister realized who Marianne was, I sensed a change and perhaps even some sympathy added in her gaze and tone. After a few moments, Ringle's sister returns once again. No. No, not at all?

Has he talked to you about it at all? Does he? Yeah? Because I just need some answers. That's all I'm after. I'm not here to be nasty or anything like that. I just... So he doesn't talk about it at all?

No, he doesn't. Anyway, he's not here to talk about it at all? No, he doesn't. to be nasty or anything like that. I just... I don't know what to tell you. So he doesn't talk about it at all? No, he doesn't. And he won't come talk to me? Like I'm not here to accuse or anything, just trying for my own self?

I understand you want closure, but no. Do you think he's in the future ever? Just sit down with me. Just talk to me. No? Like I say, he didn't even come to the door. He's not afraid or anything.

He's here. I doubt it. What's there to be afraid of? What's there to be involved in? What's there to be afraid of if he's not involved, Ringle's sister says, over the barking dog? That's all I'm asking, just to talk to him, to get some peace for myself, so that I can go on. I work for CBC, I'm doing a documentary about the murder of Christine Herent.

It is really just about information, and it's not about accusations. You can understand that, you know, it was a pretty difficult case, and Anthony confessing to murdering Christine is a pretty substantial part of it. Did he ever confess anything to you, or I understand he confessed to other family members on that night in August?

Not his other family members. Not to you? Not me, no. So how has it affected you though? You must have questions of your own as to why. Yes, but I'm in the same situation. If I want to find anything out, I got to speak to his lawyer. He won't just actually talk to you. He will not talk to me. You're his sister, right? Yes. He's lucky he's got a sister who's so protective and nice to him because... Protective? I don't know if I'm being... Well, protective, I mean just, you know, being wary and things like that.

But anyway, I appreciate your time and I hope we can sit down and talk to him because it'll help up immensely, you know, this family. Just give me a minute and I'll tell him that... you're Wes' son. Okay. That's not gonna help. She was in court with him. Her and the mother. No.

OK. Thanks so much for your time. Running up and down and all that. Disturbing your dog. See you later. Thank you. We head back to the van in silence. head back to the van in silence. No, no go.

We tried our best but we couldn't get him to... There we go. So what do you think of that, Marianne? I think he's afraid he's going to say the wrong thing and come up on charges again. I think he's afraid. Installing a TV on a wall sounds simple, right? That was easy. Did you find the stud? You're looking at him.

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So, do you ever have any luck? Nope. At Chrissie's's sack's place again. Grandma has two white refrigerators and we're standing between them at a round wooden kitchen table where she has spread some pictures of Chrissy. Grandma listens intently as Marianne describes the attempt to speak to Ringel. When we went to Anthony's place, he's living with his sister.

It's where they are a couple of houses away from where grandpa used to live. But he was sleeping and she told us right off the bat that he wouldn't wanna talk to us. I think she's protecting him. Yeah, same as a mom did. Yeah. But no, he wouldn't come up and talk to us at all.

Disappointed that he wouldn't come talk to us, at least. Faces. Would have been nice. Keep trying. The conversation soon turns to what the family has read about Ringel and documents I provided or heard coming out of the pre-trial. In 1993, when the investigation into Chrissie's case was just getting started, Ringel actually worked for the Hanover police, washing police cruisers.

But he lost that job after he followed a woman home and went into her house. He happened to be carrying a starter pistol. This was also in May 1993, about a week after Chrissy disappeared. The woman barricaded herself in a bathroom until her boyfriend arrived and pushed Ringel, telling him to get the hell out of the house. About him stalking this girl up there. Ringel served two years probation for possession of a firearm. His record also shows two counts of mischief in 1998 for smashing car windows and slashing tires.

Check, check, check. It's the day before the anniversary of Chrissy's disappearance. I'm not giving up just yet. Oh, hi. Back at the sister's house. This time alone. There's cameras rolling in the van, tripods duct taped to the floor, backup audio pinned to my shirt,

and I'm recording with a phone in my hand. Hoping again for Ringo. Hi, how are you? I'm good. Is this unit two or unit 1 here? For this house? Or is this one unit? It's kind of a little both. Why, what do you need?

Oh, I'm looking for Anthony. Oh, he's down at his trailer right now actually. Oh, okay. Where is that? If you go down to the park and just follow the road around The park, just like there's an arena or something down here? Yeah. Like I saw the arena but is the park next to it?

It's actually back in behind it. Oh, okay. So if you follow the road right around it, there's a change house on the left and his is the first fifth wheel you come to. It's like a little white trailer or something? Yeah, it's a fifth wheel trailer. Oh, okay. Good. Let's go talk to him. Thanks. Trailer.

Tucked in behind the arena in Chesley, Ontario, a small town close to Hanover, there's a trailer park compacted around a circular tree-lined road. I slowly begin to drive around and based on the few directions I just heard, I pull in at what I think might be the right fifth wheel trailer. But no one's home. Not sure if this is Wrinkle's place or not. I try the next one.

Nothing here either. One more. A white trailer called a travel air with a green lawnmower and a woodpile. Hi, how are you? Are you Anthony? Yep. Anthony Ringle in a blue cap and dirty gray t-shirt standing before me, rubbing at bleary eyes. I'm Dave Rigeon, I work for CBC. I wanted to ask you about your confession regarding the murder of Christine Herron in August 2004.

Can you tell me a little bit about that? Why you confessed to that murder? No? I can't answer your question. No? Ringle sits down in the stoop. The door that he's holding open with one hand blocks him from the view of the van cameras, but my phone roughly captures him as he continues to stare at me.

Seems to have taken a lot out of you. You went in there, the police had you in there for a little while and then you had to go to jail, right, for a couple of years. It's just tomorrow is the anniversary, the May 18th tomorrow. So I'm just wondering if you could talk to me a little bit about your experience with that. No?

No, I just kind of put that all behind me. Did you know Christine? No, I don't. You didn't know her? Did you kill Christine? You didn't know her? Did you kill Christine? Ringle shakes his head but seems subdued by the question. There's a picnic table next to the door and I find myself settling back onto it to try to relax the tension I've introduced if that's possible.

But also press further. Why did you confess to her murder? What happened that day? Like, it seems like such a strange thing to do. No explanation? Nope. Does it seem like a long time ago to you? I knew.

I noticed, I was searching for you on the internet and I noticed that your mother has passed. I'm sorry to hear that, Loretta. I'm sorry to hear that. And my understanding is that you had confessed to your mom that night on August 22, 2004, about killing Christine Herron. And you confessed to your cousin and your cousin's boyfriend. And then you went and confessed to your cousin and your cousin's boyfriend. And then you went and confessed to an OPP officer.

Ringle shuffles in the doorway uncomfortably, says nothing discernible. It just seems like, do you ever think about that time? I mean, you were in jail for two years because of your confession. You were very asleep. Do you ever think about that time? I mean, you were in jail for two years because of your confession. You were very asleep. And you just woke up? Where did you go to jail? Where were you held? Did you see Christine in the park that day?

Didn't even see her down at the park? No. Where the river is there? I was down there today. the river looks pretty high. It doesn't look like... It doesn't look like you could get over it. Do you have a phone here? Is there a way to communicate with you?

No, not here, no. What are you up to these days? What do you spend your time doing here in Chesley? Not much. Did you find your time doing here in Chesley? Not much. Did you find your life changed after your confession? A little bit. How do people treat you around here? I just wonder what it would take for me to go and confess to something I didn't do if I didn't do it.

I don't understand what would have happened in your head that night that made you feel that you had to confess to a murder that you say you didn't do. Have you been interviewed by the police since then? No. They haven't come to talk to you since you got out of jail? No? Just trying to stay normal.

Try and stay normal? Yeah. You never met Christine Herron before in your life? No. How did you know her name? How did you know to say that you had killed her? Because she had disappeared in 1993, and then you confessed to her murder

to the officer on August 22, 2004. That was quite a few years later. That's like years later. So you must have remembered the name from somewhere. You ever talk to anybody in your family about that time? No? And at that party on August 22nd, 2004, where you told your mom and your cousin

and your cousin's boyfriend that you murdered Christine Heron, did they ever talk to you about why you had said that to them? Did your mom ever talk to you about why you had said that to them? Did your mom ever talk to you about why you said that? They just let it go? They just said, oh, Anthony, he's just, he's just saying that? Is that what they said? No, they didn't say a word to you. Did they come visit you in prison?

No. I had people come in. Your mom came to see you? Yeah. Did you have a chance to tell your mom before she died that you, what you say that you didn't, you didn't kill Christine? Did you ever tell her that? No. So she died thinking that you might have murdered her? Pardon? I didn't talk about it. No you didn't talk about it.

Nobody. Any of your friends ever come and talk to you about it? No. Christine disappeared somewhere. She just never came home. Her mother is wondering what happened. She doesn't know either. Well, I thank you for your time. Maybe I'll come and talk to you again sometime.

Take care. I pull away and park a short distance away to collect myself. I felt surprised that Ringo would engage for so long, like he wanted to talk or needed to. It's hard to determine if someone is being evasive in the short term, but I remember feeling that just below the surface there was much more to be pulled. Something catches my eye and I look toward the arena I'm parked near. It's Ringle on a bicycle and he's coming toward me. At first I think he wants to talk more and I roll down the passenger window but it startles

him. I think he was trying to watch me from afar, Ringel trying to do a bit of his own investigative work. He races by and I try to drive up beside him. Hey Anthony! But Ringel keeps moving and disappears down the road with whatever knowledge he may carry. What happened to 15-year-old Christine Herron? One man said he knows...

A few months later, I've edited my 20-minute TV documentary for the CBC together, and it goes to air across the country. It's called Confession to Murder. Tonight, investigative filmmaker David Rigein shows us what happened and confronts the man who once made a confession to murder. In it, I present everything I can find about the case. It's thickly forested and swampy, on private land across the Sauguin River from Hanover's public park, one of Christine's favourite places.

Public Park, one of Christine's favorite places. I go through police malfeasance, the stay, attempts to speak to Ringel, and as much of his story as I can. According to the available documents, including interviews with Ringel, police testimony, and other courtroom statements, this is what is alleged to have happened the day Christine Heron went missing. And then we wait and watch, ready to act, again, hoping the documentary will move the investigation forward. I've had to learn patience over the years.

Yeah. I have to learn patience over the years. Yeah. I have a lot of patience now with the case. You learn it over the years. You learn how to deal with it your own way so that you can move on. But it never goes away. Today is the same as it was that day for me. It's still there. Just it was that day for me. It's still there. Just deal with it a different way. Somewhere later the guilt will get to him and eat away at him day by day by day that will slowly eat on him and bring him down

to where he just can't take it anymore. Where he's compelled to finally tell the truth. He's going to know that everybody's keeping an eye on him. So how are you going to send your patients to work and with regards to Anthony? Still going to wait patiently, sooner or later. Justice will happen. I believe that. I believe it too.

On all the cases I've worked on, I've seen first hand that sometimes the only difference between a so-called cold case and a conviction is time. And this time the patience pays off. Nine months after my documentary is released, Anthony Ringle is arrested again for the murder of Christine Herron. Haren. Coming up on Someone Knows Something. An inside look at Ringle's re-arrest and how it all happened. Someone Knows Something is hosted, written, and produced by me, David Rigeon. The series is also produced by Katie Swires.

Sound design by Evan Kelly. Natalia Ferguson is our transcriber. Emily Cannell is our digital producer. Chris Oak is our story editor. Our executive producer is Cecil Fernandes. Tanya Springer is the senior manager. And Arif Noorani is the director of CBC Podcasts. If you want to help new listeners discover the show, please rate and review wherever

you listen. Find us on Facebook by searching Someone Knows Something or on Instagram at CBC Podcasts. You can hear next week's episode now by searching for the CBC Podcasts channel on YouTube. If you're looking for another series to listen to, check out Understood from CBC. Understood goes behind the news headlines. From the fall of a crypto king to inside Pornhub, find Understood from the CBC everywhere you get your podcasts. Tune in next week for an all-new episode of Someone Knows Something, or you can binge See you next time. I'm a walker, bound out of the world

And I can't get let you in the tail