Someone Knows Something - S9 E4: ‘Til The Day I Die

Episode Date: November 27, 2024

David’s TV documentary about Christine comes out in the spring of 2012, publicly revealing details of the case for the first time along with key interviews including a face-to-face with Anthony Ringel. In the aftermath, police launch an undercover operation on Ringel. David and Mary Ann's work proves key and Ringel is re-arrested. Will Ringel finally go to trial and Mary Ann learn the truth?

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Paid content with Via Rail Canada. This is a CBC Podcast. The following episode contains difficult subject matter, including references to sexual assault. Please take care. Okay, so Mary Ann, tell me everything. Last night we had an officer appear at our door at 1130 at night and asked us to get in touch with Detective Gilpin. Then called her and she let me know that Anthony Ringle had been arrested and charged with

murder of my daughter. Marianne says police haven't told her much more about this the second time Ringle's been arrested for Chrissy's murder. The first time was almost 10 years earlier and the charges were stayed and the case went nowhere. It's been nine months since my CBC doc aired. Ringle is now 44 years old. Christine Herron would have been now 34 years of age. The OPP press conference at the Walkerton police station, filled with media, family

and people from the area. There is no happy ending to this investigation for Maryne Christine's mom. I know that this has been a roller coaster of emotional highs and lows for the family since it began over 19 years ago. Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin. Gilpin had given me very little information during my own investigation and she's certainly not revealing a lot now either. So what's changed that's allowed police to

re-arrest Ringel? I was going to ask, this is of no disrespect to the family, but I have to ask have you found Christine? I can't discuss the evidence that we have discovered and I don't want to cause any problems with the court process so I'm unable to provide you with that information at this time. Police never found Christine on any of their searches after Ringle's confession and several mistakes that the court determined were made by OPP investigator Mark Wright caused the Crown to stay the charges against Ringle. Detective Inspector Gilpin messaged me after my CBC documentary aired saying, quote,

So you know I, we had nothing to do with what Mark Wright did. That was just him. There has been a certain level of frustration with the length of this and some directed at the OPP and police that have handled it before this. With no real answers forthcoming from police, the reporters press in on Mary Ann, who is seated off to the side at the back of the room. One of them asks Mary Ann how she feels after hearing the OPP announcement. I'm just glad that it's finally gotten to this point where they've been able to arrest him again for her murder.

We're very thankful for that and hopefully justice will be had. The word closure comes out quite a bit. There is no such thing as closure. The word closure is one that most of the victims' families I've worked with despise. And here, reporters are forcing the question before Marianne knows anything. What happened with Ringle? And will any of it lead to us actually knowing what happened to Chrissy on May 18th, 1993? I'm David Rigeon and this is Someone Knows Something Season 9 The Christine Herron Case Episode 4 Till the Day I Die

Code four, till the day I die. He tried to charge me on attempted murder. What? For what? Attempted murder? Yeah. He's like a birth father, isn't he? Well, some checkpoint mess and they tried to pin it on me. Oh. Attempted murder. Don't lie to me. 75 days after my CBC documentary went to air in May 2012, police begin field operations involving Ringle in the same trailer park where I had confronted him. It was like, fucking... They come in and I haven't even talked to a lawyer yet.

This is why the reason why I got thrown out of court. Yeah. Because they did not give me my rights right. This police operation proceeded over several months, guided by Detective Inspector Gilpin, and involved a handful of Corps officers, undercover men and women whom I shall refer to as UCs perform and stage scenarios intended to gain Wrle's trust and get him to talk, posing as down on their luck new arrivals to town. We've excluded the UCs' identities and altered their voices under court order.

This is the first time that these undercover recordings have ever been made public. It gives us an inside look into the police investigation of Ringel and what led to his arrest for a second time. Ringel and two UCs are sitting on beige couches arranged in an L shape in a starkly furnished apartment in Chesley, Ontario, trying to get a video game to work. Maybe you gotta shut off this system or reboot it. Unplug it and put it back in.

The operation moved to this apartment near the end of October 2012 because the trailer park shut down for winter. They are all facing a television across the room that the game displays on, but this TV area also hosts a hidden camera that records everything that goes on in front of it. I think it's a day off. We're going to Walmart first thing in the morning. Walmart open now? The room, and it seems the UCs themselves, are rigged with hidden microphones that also record. They call Ringle Dozer because of the way he likes to drive into or over other cars in the game. Ho ho ho! It's a funny one.

This rather empty looking setting would serve as a launch pad for trying to extract a confession from Ringle. I had to tell him. When this all came to the surface like that, I had to tell him. But that's the thing, he doesn't fucking judge me. He knows, and I told him. One of the main stories UCs try to drive home to wrinkle about themselves involves a landscaper who is enduring a tough divorce and losing everything. The other UC is a friend of the landscaper and presents himself as having been caught in a relationship with an underage girl, a 14-ish year old that seems to fit Christine's

age. The UC involved in this underage relationship gets away with it, the story goes, because the landscaper stands up for him and can be trusted. It's all meant to position and present a predicament of shared experience that they hope might stimulate Ringle to open up and confide in them. But while the story of the UC's affair with a teenage girl gets Ringle somewhat engaged, he says nothing specific to Christine. The UCs constantly shift their approach, trying to build rapport. And they develop talking opportunities featuring Coors Light, pizzas, restaurants, pool halls, ice fishing, a strip club, and even exchanging pornography DVDs.

During the operation, Ringle would talk about young women as being objects. Objects of his desire. Not unless you're actually following them. But then you gotta make it look like you're not following them. Ringo would tell the UCs that he knew where many young women lived in the Chesley and Hanover area, that he had followed them and techniques he uses,

such as circling back or doing parallels to make sure you don't get caught. On a trip to a London Ontario mall, Ringle spies young women he describes to the UCs as being under 16 years old. One of them in particular, Ringel says, is about 13, wearing a pink sweater and leotard. Ringel wants to show her to the UCs, but he can't find her again, and it frustrates him. Shouldn't be walking around like that,

teasing somebody's cock. You don't want her parents to let her out? Yeah. What were you guys thinking? Right? But these simpatico trust-building scenes still do not bring Ringle any closer to talking specifically about past connection to Christine Heron. In late November, a more direct method is used. Missing posters showing a photo of Chrissy and the basics of her disappearance are put up by police operatives around town. One right on the UC's car windshield.

Ringle picks it up but initially turns it so that the UC can't see it. Anybody else got one of them? Ringle shows the poster to the UC. Seen a kid before? Somebody just go missing or? to the found. Two weeks later, the missing Chrissy poster comes up again. Here's the thing. Okay, I seen her picture one day and I actually definitely said something to a cop about the picture.

That I seen it and they took it the wrong way. Right. And they ended up charging that. I actually definitely said something to a cop about the picture. That I seen it and they took it the wrong way. And they ended up charging me. But it's the end of that day. You get it though? The one that's gone, been gone for 15 years? That's the one that you went to jail for.

This one. Yeah. But while the poster gets Ringle talking about generalities, he doesn't make any statements germane to the case. The holidays arrive and the UCs depart. So I got 19 and 30 little school girls. Nice, awesome. I've got 19 and 30 little school girls. Nice! Awesome!

The UCs return after the break. Soon after, Ringel brings over some porn DVDs he proposes that they watch. I also have a Canadian one. Oh yeah? Of a girl. The UCs try again to encourage Ringel to talk, and take him on an ice fishing trip at the end of January, but it comes up empty too. Documents show that Ringel's comments about a young teen girl he sees out on the ice make

the UCs uncomfortable. At this point, UCs have spent about five months trying to get Ringel to admit to any involvement in Chrissie's disappearance with no luck. Nothing seems to be working. But then... Maybe you have to type your middle name. That's like his type your middle name. That's like, it's typed in my name. If you type my name, it's not more than anyone.

Oh yeah, I know it. I know it, man. Oh, you know it, man. An idea is hatched by police that UCs should get onto the internet with Ringle. Play around, entering their names to see if searching them brings anything up. To do this, police create a fake search engine so that the UC's stage name brings up nothing of interest. But when Ringle's name is entered, something specific pops up. Well, that's that fucking thing they did on Christian Jern. My CBC documentary. my new series with Via Rail. Join me as I ride on from Toronto to Ottawa and London

aboard Via Rail's new fleet of trains. My journey was a breeze. No traffic jams, just smooth sailing. The seats are super comfy, and with complimentary wifi, I can work and play with ease. Plus, with meals and snacks on board, I arrived refreshed and play with ease. Plus, with meals and snacks on board, I arrived refreshed and ready to explore. From a boat cruise in Ottawa to the Grand Theatre in London,

these cities are packed with amazing experiences. For your next trip, do yourself a favour. Skip traffic and take Via Rail. Watch both episodes now on cbc.ca slash Via Rail. Paid content with Via Rail Canada. Are you sure you parked over here? Do you see it anywhere? I think it's back this way.

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and clear your head, visit Canada.ca slash It Pays to Know. A message from the Government of Canada. What? pays to know. A message from the name? Yep. That's fucking you right there! They did every fucking thing on me. How did they make a fucking... Is this like a movie or something or what is it? No. We're supposed to be, uh... Yeah, but we gotta listen to this. Anthony Ringle and the UC sit on the couches in the fake Chesley apartment watching my

documentary. Ringle in a snowmobile jacket and baseball cap nervously sipping at a beer. But then the documentary abruptly ends. Along with the dummy search engine, police had edited their own much shorter version of my film and Ringle notices. Ringle, who has seen the original doc, wants to watch the 20-minute long version and urges the UC to find it. So the UC, searching the actual internet, finds it, linked to a CBC article I wrote about Chrissy's case.

Ringle leans in and together he and the UC watch, stopping, starting and replaying for the next four hours. That's my neighbor's trailer. Here's my trailer. starting and replaying for the next four hours. Ringo apparently thought I was a cop when I knocked on his trailer door. She doesn't know either. Well, it's my problem. Ringel watching interacts with the documentary with my voiceover, answering not my problem. And the conversation ends with more questions. See, he didn't mention the question. As Ringel watches, his commentary increases. His statements become focused on Christine, the imagery I shot and the words I'm saying. He's opening up. The UC hits play again. The Hanover Park and Saugeen River appear on the screen.

River from Hanover's public park. One of Christine's favorite places. See, according to the... What's that? That wasn't her favorite place. No. Everyone could have a favorite place, right? Yeah. Ringle seems visibly struck by the thought that the little Hanover park on the Saugeen River was one of Chrissie's favorite places.

Then they watch the part of the documentary where I describe from documents what Ringle said to police in 2004 about what he did to Christine. Apparently in or close to a marshy lagoon, not only does the OPP bring Ringle to these locations... I don't understand why they couldn't find it. Hmm. So, well, it's buried. I don't understand why they couldn't find it. She wasn't really buried.

This is the first time since his 2004 confession that Ringle connects himself directly to Chrissy's disappearance. The UC seizes on the opportunity as he wonders in questions for Ringle how it is that they couldn't find Chrissy's body. No. I wonder why, though. How could they have? Which is good for you.

I was putting all the funds. Funds? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know why, but how could they have? Which is good for you. I think it's because of all the bugs. Bugs?

Ringo thinks that the flooding at the banks of the Saugine could be a reason for why Chrissy was not found. Could have washed her somewhere else, or could have actually buried her somewhere else. Right. Either way though, that's good for you. That's what I'm doing with you. Right.

Because Lucy didn't find her. I'm fucking shit. That's what's wrong. They couldn't find fucking shit. In the hidden video recordings, I can see the UC becoming noticeably excited about the documentary's effect on Ringle as they crouch over the laptop sitting on the couches. Once the gate begins to open, Ringle pushes through it, keeps going, and keeps talking. Oh, so keep on going. See what happened. Okay.

This is what is alleged to have happened the day Christine Karen- Fucking radio. We know where that is. Where? That's in the park. It's a documentary on the river. Yeah, on her and on the river. They're not actually showing where we crossed or fucking blah blah blah blah.

Right. Right. Hmm. Two minutes. Walk off the trail and you're right there. They couldn't find the location. Yeah, it goes around the bend. I've never been there so I don't get it. I don't know. It goes around the bend and then moves that way. So at the end of that tip, that's where we crossed. Ringel, who says he took police to the right spot back in 2004, seems upset here because I didn't film the exact spot he says he crossed the Saugine River with Chrissy.

It keeps him talking. Like how'd you find her? Was it for touring or is it like... The UC asks how Ringle came to meet Christine and uses Ringle's word touring or looking for young girls around town. Walking. Just for a walk? Yeah, I went for a walk one day too.

Oh shit, hey? I just went for a walk and then all of a sudden I bumped into this chick. What did you say to her? Oh, on that way. You remember her? That's actually what they said. No, no. Ringle says he said what's down there to Chrissy. Well, what's down there? And what she said? Actually, she didn't say it the right way.

But she didn't come down the right way. No. Ringle says Chrissy didn't come to any of it. No. Like I said, she didn't come to any of it. Ringle says Chrissy didn't really say anything. As a 15-year-old girl, alone, being accosted by a 24-year-old man, I think Chrissy would have been afraid to do anything that might provoke a negative reaction. And I'll send you one. The UC asks Ringle what made him do it that day.

Sexual frustration, huh? Sexual frustration. Sexual frustration. And then you talk to her right away or no? They can say. Hmm. What she said. She didn't say.

Like I said, 14 you should know. She should know better. It's not all your fault, right? No, she didn't seem too happy when she was coming down with Kyle. Opportunity knocks. Opportunity knocks and you got to answer. I think it was her time. Yeah. Opportunity knocks and you got an answer. I think it was her time. Opportunity knocked. I think it was her time.

Hearing Ringel try to justify the brutal events he's describing is difficult to listen to, but the UC presses forward. Ringles says he pushed Chrissy into the river and then followed her across. She went downstream a little bit when I went across and hit the bank. But let go and caught up to her to try to keep her from going all the way down. Right. It must have been wild. Was it cold or? No.

Ringo says he has to swim after Chrissy to keep her from floating downriver and he pulls her to the opposite bank. Did she have the glasses when she got to the other side or no? No. That's one very day, right? Hey, if kids were to spill water, how come they didn't find that? The glasses. Ringle says Chrissy's glasses came off in the water and wonders why they weren't found.

From here, more specific details begin to come out about what Ringle thinks, about what Ringle says he did, and I've omitted some of the most difficult to hear, but I still urge caution for listeners. Was it before crossing the river or after? And Ringle says, after. How do you do it that way? I locked her in. It wasn't faced.

I can't remember if it was faced down or if I flipped her over. I can't remember if it was faced down or I flipped her over? I can't remember if it was face down or I flipped her over. Was it swampy when you were there? Yeah. So you were all covered in wet and you were laying in the mud yourself or did you not go to a good dry area?

I remember doing whatever and then going. I remember doing whatever and then going. I don't want to try to remember. Like, when this computer is saying one thing, this is the best position is asking you. So when it says that you, you know, I bet she was around. Just say she couldn't fucking move the way I did it. Let's just say she couldn't fucking move the way I did it. Let's just say she couldn't fucking move the way I did it. Can you like, can you describe it?

Like is it, like what's it? Like so how do you tie a person up without rope? Hmm. I don't know. Good question. How do you do it? Jacket. I don't know. The room jacket? How do you do that? So this is her coat?

Yeah. Okay. So there's her coat. Ringle physically shows the UC how he immobilized Chrissy using her coat so that it kept her arms from moving. Oh yeah, I can't fucking move now. Oh shit, eh? When she's on the ground, I can do anything.

Yeah. Like pull off a right? Yeah. Like pull off a pant. Yeah. Right. So what did she, what did she say to you then? She said she wouldn't tell anybody, but then later on she started saying it hurt, it hurt. She's gonna tell them? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Where's the question of that? I don't want to tell them about anything. I'll let you go and you say something. I let you go and you say something. I'm... And here, Ringo can be seen mouthing the words, I'm fucked.

He was afraid Chrissy would tell people what had happened. The UC eggs on this difficult conversation. Yeah, it's decision time right there, right? What to do? Should I let her go or... I mean... She's not coming back. But they lied about drowning her. They didn't really drown her.

Because drowning you have to have more breath. Where I was is more muddier. It wasn't more drowning. I more smothered her. Was it her? Has it been quick or does it take more time? How is it, how do you do it? Well, I see you can die in a split second and drown.

Well, I think it's a little bit longer. Ringle tells the UC how he smothered Chrissy in the mud, how it took longer than it seems in the movies to kill someone. Gee, that's what they said. I kind of, what, did, unmarked grave? So I was trying to do the respectable thing. Kind of barrier and not... You know, I don't fucking open it. Sticks, logs, and branches. There are bears in the woods, and they are human.

As I watch the recordings, I'm struck a few times by an overwhelming urge to get away, panic attack triggered by the unending horror and ease with which Ringle talks about hurting Chrissy and barbarically taking her life. Sitting with Ringle through all of this must be tough for the UCs. Fleeing my computer, my house, my city is easy, but it doesn't change anything. I still have to get to the end. But I'm happy Ringel is watching the doc and talking, and it's a sort of grounding. The work is doing what it's supposed to do. Upon my return to the keyboard, I open up the transcript and video file to a spot where

Ringel is eating popcorn out of a bowl. You know what I mean? It's God that's going to probably punish me for whatever. You know what though? I think God is going to forgive you. We talked about this. Like you said, it's a perfect crime. Now that you did basically the perfect crime.

Or really, if you will, at least. Yeah, okay. So what am I doing now? That's what I mean, do you ever think you'll break it? Doing it again? Yeah. I have but No, no, I

Think it's my conscience. That's trying to stop you from you right now Your option you can do that or follow my commitments So if you do it once and you don't do it again, maybe I can trust you. Right. I still have them thoughts, yeah. Ringel still has the thoughts of doing something again,

and yet he has also felt the urge to confess. I am an atheist but believe in the edict that the truth will set you free. Will the truth set Ringle free and to do what is the question. So what do you think about Marianne? I think he's afraid. He's afraid he's gonna say the wrong thing and... Fuck you, I already said the wrong thing. Well, I'm gonna call. It's like she's fucking calling you on, eh? It's like, oh yeah.

Towards the end of what are now the early morning hours of continuous documentary watching, a melancholy seems to descend on Ringle himself about what he has done. So, no, that's why I'm saying I have to apologize. And if I ever get back to you. Ringle's wistfulness turns to musings about an afterlife where he might get the chance, he thinks, to speak to Chrissy. I'm going to ask you the question, it speak to Chrissy. To ask that question, hypothetically, of anyone, let alone someone you have horribly murdered, is, to me, blood boiling.

But it also clarifies Ringle's state of mind. This is his version of guilt, no matter how wrong-headed. His version of a mind trying to find a way out of what it knows was a terrible wrong. It never goes away. It's today is same as it was that day for me. It's still there. Just deal with it a different way. Still gonna wait patiently, sooner or later.

Justice won't happen. I believe that. Marianne Resswurm says she continues to hold that hope. No, they didn't, they cut it out. They say that she hopes that I still talk to her. Oh, you're not gonna though are you? No, I should. No, what's... that's... In the past man. Put it this way.

This story here, you and me... Till the day I die, it fucking doesn't leave these legs. It's a long time ago right? Put it behind you and... Oh, I know they're gonna forget it. No, it's fucking... Dude is too planted in his brain. It's only 20 minutes long, but it's taking us about three hours to watch it. Yeah. After about seven months of direct contact with Ringle and with their UC recorded confessions,

Ontario Provincial Police re-arrest Ringle and charge him with first degree murder. The undercover operation is viewed as a huge success, and Ringel is sent to provincial jail to await his trial. But the outcome of that trial is far from certain. In 2015, when Ringel's second pretrial begins, the defense moves to throw out his confession again. This time, not because of police errors, but because of my documentary. Someone Knows Something is hosted, written, and produced by me, David Rigeon. The series is also produced by Katie Swires.

Sound design by Evan Kelly. Natalia Ferguson is our transcriber. Emily Cannell is our digital producer. Chris Oak is our story editor. Our executive producer is Cecil Fernandes. Tanya Springer is the senior manager and Arif Noorani is the director of CBC Podcasts. If you want to help new listeners discover the show,

please rate and review wherever you listen. Find us on Facebook by searching Someone Knows Something or on Instagram at CBC Podcasts. You can hear next week's episode now by searching for the CBC Podcasts channel on YouTube. If you're looking for more investigations, check out my other series, The Next Call. Conducted almost exclusively through a series of strategic phone calls, each call dictates how I will investigate cases and follow leads. There are three seasons available to binge listen to now. Find The Next Call wherever you get your podcasts. Tune in next week for an all-new episode of Someone Knows Something, or you can listen

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