Someone Knows Something - The Next Call with David Ridgen: Episode 1 in the case of Melanie Ethier

Episode Date: October 15, 2021

On September 28, 1996, Melanie Ethier says goodbye to her mother Celine, and goes to a friend’s house to watch a movie. Melanie is never seen again.

Help turn off hesitation, turn off doubt, turn off fears. With your support, the YMCA of Greater Toronto helps people turn off whatever's holding them back so they can let their potential shine. Help turn on confidence and connections and possibilities. From youth shelters to job training, mental health counseling and beyond, the YMCA offers hundreds of programs that empower people to shine their brightest. See our charity's impact at ymcagta.org slash charity. This is a CBC Podcast.

I asked myself, why am I here? I never watched Melanie leave the house. It was so weird, but it was the last time I saw her. Hello. Hello. Hi, is this Céline? Yes. This is Céline Ethier.

I've reached her in the small town of New Liscard, Ontario. Okay, so I'm sitting by the lake. I usually come here almost every morning and drink the day when I think of Mel. Céline's daughter Melanie, age 15, disappeared on a walk home from a teen get-together in New Liscard early one September morning in 1996. Mel has never been found and Celine still lives in the same town. And 24 years later she still every day works through Mel's disappearance. There's a big tree by the lake in New Liskeern. So quite often I go grab my coffee and sit by the lake by her tree.

This call isn't for someone knows something, but for this new podcast I've developed with the CBC called The Next Call. The Next Call is all about the next call, investigating crimes over the phone to go as far as I can in furthering a case and showing as I go my process of investigation. COVID distancing inspired, yes, but also an approach that potentially allows me to work on more cases in more places. Episodes will mostly take the form of the calls I make in the order I make them, and I will go as far as I can until I can't go any further. I'm David Ridgen, and welcome to The Next Call, Episode 1 in the case of Melanie Ethier. So, there's a tree that I chose that's the one that I have the plaque on.

Do you know what kind of tree it is? I don't even know. But it's huge and it's beautiful. It's right by the lake, Lake Tamiskaming. Lake Tamiskaming is a widening of the Ottawa River that divides Ontario from Quebec. And New Liskard, now called Témiscamingue Shores, sits at the northwest tip of the lake, surrounded by a vast wilderness of public crown land. Just tell me a little bit about Mel. What was she like?

Melanie was born on Christmas Day, and she was a very bubbly kid. She loved everyone. Even when she was little, she would stop people on her street and say, come have coffee with my mom. She was always very social. She worked at a daycare. She was in high school, so she would go to the daycare that's attached to the high school and she would open it in the morning until the workers would get there and then she'd go to school and after school she'd go back there

and read the kids off the bus and then she would be the one closing the daycare so she was very trustworthy responsible so it was really hard after she went missing because my other daughter, who was only five year old at the time, she used to be one of the kids that would get there on the school bus. Selin's other daughter is named Jessie, and it was Jessie who sent me Selin's number to call. And I'll be talking to her soon. So Melanie would always hold her hand and all the kids would walk in. Then Melanie and Jesse would be the last ones to walk in, always hand in hand. So anyways, even when she got her job, I ended up buying Melanie a watch. And I told her so she would always be on time.

So when I got a job too, she ended up buying me a watch and said the same thing. It was kind of funny. And Melanie, what was her birth year? She was born in? In 80. 1980. Okay. Christmas, 1980.

Yes. I had Melanie and Jesse, 10 years apart. So Jesse was five years old at the time. She was only five, but it was really hard on her all the way through because you walk in the store and everybody's whispering, that's the mom of Melanie. So for Jessie, it's always been living in the shadow of Melanie kind of thing. I've tried to protect her from it all. So I think it probably made her feel like she was left behind in that part.

She grew up having people look for Melanie, so I think it's affected her in a way of feeling like she was not as important as Melanie, although she was. And I always made sure to, even from the beginning, I always made sure that I gave Jesse as much time as Melanie because even though Melanie hasn't been there all those years, it's like every day there's a big part of my energy spent on Melanie. I understand. Trying to find her.

Knowing that most of Jessie's life has been overshadowed by her sister's disappearance, I wonder aloud if my calling her might be helpful or not. Céline quickly jumps in with her opinion. I'm thinking that it would probably be good for her because lately she's really come forward in trying to find her sister. Okay, and what took you to New Liskerd? We were in Hellebree from since I was six years old.

And then I went to college in Sudbury when I was 18. I was pregnant with Melanie at the time, actually, and gave birth to her Christmas Day and went back to college right January 4th. Because I always wanted to support myself and my child. So I went to Cambridge College, in college, took social work, and graduated the year after. And I ended up coming back to Liskard and working in Liskard. And did Melanie like New Liskard? Yes, she did.

She did like Liskard. Like, she did have some really good friends. She wasn't exposed to that much prejudice at that time because she hung out with really good people so she stayed away from the bad crowd. Like I find my second daughter was more exposed to the prejudice. Melanie's father is black and Celine, her mother, is white. I guess what I'm saying is there really wasn't that many black people around at the time. I met Melanie's dad. He was from Africa, from Botswana. I met him when he went to the mining school in Halibur.

After I was pregnant, he ended up being sent to a different college. And then he had to go back to Africa. So we didn't leave on bad terms. We still talked to each other once in a while on the computer. Melanie's father returned to Africa just after he completed his schooling and was not in New Liskeard at the time of Mel's disappearance. Okay, you know how I said there was only a few black people in town? Well, there was three black girls in town. So there was Melanie, there was another girl

who lived exactly on Pine Street. Were they all the same age, a similar age? Yes, yes, all the same age, but the other two were from the English high school. So Melanie didn't really hang out with one of them, at least. She didn't hang out with the one who lived on Pine Street. While none of these people have been shown to have anything to do with Melanie's disappearance, one of them figures into a mistaken identity theory that we'll talk about later.

I think we would both like for everything to end, for Melanie to be found and for us to live more of a normal life than we've had because every day has been consuming and putting all all our energy in finding Melanie and I think our life would have been so different would Melanie have been there with us I feel like we've been living on one day like we haven't moved forward because we need to find melanie every day i've been getting private message that i'm trying to follow because i don't want to miss the tip that will be the right one so it's pretty much all i do lately like from morning till night i grab my phone and i am i'm replying to texts i wonder wonder if, Céline, you can just describe your understanding of events as they unfolded.

Okay, so what happened, Melanie was in a relationship from grade nine till that summer, like at the end of the school year, she was in a relationship, but they ended up breaking up at that time and still stayed on good terms. But anyways, she ended up breaking up at that time and still stayed on good terms but anyways she ended up meeting a guy so I didn't know those friends it was all new friends because it was they were from the English high school Melanie went to the French high school okay so I didn't know them so at the time Melanie went missing about I'm thinking about three weeks before she had started dating one guy from the English high school. Melanie's previous boyfriend, who she had dated for about a year, was a teenager named Jacques Laplante.

Mel had started seeing a new boyfriend, Neil Fortier, for just a short while before her disappearance at the end of September 1996. So the day before Melanie went missing, she went shopping because she was looking for a gift for my mom, whose birthday is on the 30th of September. So they were supposed to be coming to my house the next day because Melanie wanted to make my mom a cake. She was always close to them. So she had went to My Little Hearts and icingcing and she had bought her candles for her birthday as a gift. Céline says Melanie then met with her best female friend and spent the afternoon with her.

This best friend has asked that her name not be publicly revealed. I'd like to find out more detail about that day from this best friend. Eventually, later that day, Melanie and her friend met with a group of boys. So they met with the boys to go watch movies. The first place the group went, Celine says, nobody was home, so they found their way back to Mel's house. They ended up coming to my house around 10 o'clock that night. And Melanie said, Mom, can we watch movies here? And I said, well, my mom was with me. So I said, well, there's really not much room.

Like, the place we were at was so small. So she said, can we watch them in my room? And I said, well, your room's a mess, but it's up to you. So she said, you watch them in my room and i said well your room's a mess but it's up to you so she said let's go guys like that was her last uh thing that she said to me let's go guys with a big smile on her face because she figured you would go watch it somewhere else because her room was messy so anyway so they left so the boys were with them at that time, Melanie and her close friend, her best friend. Can you just, can I interrupt? So the close friend that she was with that day is the same close friend that she was with that night? Yes.

The boys Melanie and her best friend left with were, according to Céline, Dave Bromley and Jay Denemy, Ryan Chatwin, whose house they ultimately ended up at to watch a movie, and Neil Fortier, the new boyfriend that Melanie had just started dating. Okay, she said, let's go guys, and what happened? So then they walked out of my house, and the weirdest thing is I left, like I opened the door as I was watching them go and I walked to the sidewalk, which is really weird. So I was there and I asked myself, why am I here?

I never watched Melanie leave the house. It was so weird, but it was the last time I saw her. What time was that about? So that was at 10. So they left my house at 10. At 10. Okay. They left my house around 10 and then out they went. Okay. And you went out to the sidewalk just in front of your house? Yes. Like it's still about 10th step, I'd say.

Okay. What was the address of that house? So I lived at Wellington. On Wellington, about a two minute walk from the main street. Wellington. Okay. And you saw them leave in what direction did they walk in when they left? So they left my house and walked to the right. I believe that they went to a girl's place, which is also friends with all of them, but that they couldn't watch it there. And from there, they would have walked to where they were that night.

And what was that girl's name that they were supposed to go to? Do you know her name? I believe the first name is Samaya. Céline is talking about Samya Benshabi who was dating Dave Bromley at the time. According to Céline, the group was not allowed to watch the movie at Samya's

so they left and Samya went along with them bringing her dog with her for the time. According to Céline, the group was not allowed to watch the movie at Samya's, so they left. And Samya went along with them, bringing her dog with her for the walk. Dave and Samya did not join the group at the Chatwin house for the movie. After they went to that place, they ended up going to where they actually watched the movies. Who told you that they were at that house watching a movie? Okay, so I didn't know at that time. I guess I have to backtrack. On that Friday, when Melanie got home, no, on that Friday, on my lunch hour, when I went home, I realized my phone line had been cut by the telephone company because I was struggling with money at the time. I was supposed to have my paycheck on Monday. So I, when I went back to work, i contacted the telephone company and said could you please connect my line like i'm getting

paid monday so i can pay my bill monday and they told me they said well we'll connect it once you pay your check monday so so anyways when melanie got home from school that night i had told her we're not gonna have a phone this weekend, but it's not going to kill us. I remember saying those exact words to her. So I didn't know until the next morning, because what happened that night, I went to bed thinking that everything was okay, that Melanie was watching movies and she'd be home. And that was the night of Saturday, September 28th? Yes. Okay. She went missing in the early morning of the 29th.

That night I went to bed. It's the next morning when I woke up that her alarm in her room went on, I believe it was at six o'clock because she usually got up to go work at the daycare. So she hadn't turned the alarm off because she hadn't been home that night. So her alarm went on. So I was like, come on, Mel, get up and turn your alarm off. The alarm kept on going on. So I got up and went in her room and turned the alarm off and noticed she wasn't there. So at that point, I thought, well, I guess she fell asleep watching movies.

So I still didn't think nothing of it at that point I thought well I guess she fell asleep watching movies so I still didn't think nothing of it at that point so I just went back to bed thinking she'll be here in the morning because she had to make my mom's cake uh for my mom to come that morning to eat her cake before they were leaving town my mom and my dad so um had Melanie ever done that before not come home because she fell asleep somewhere or? No, but because I had no phone, I thought maybe she would have called me to tell me she was going to stay there. Maybe she just fell asleep. She would fall asleep during movies. Yes.

If that's what you mean. I mean, did your radar go up? Were you a little bit worried at that point? Or did you just think because Melanie is so reliable, she'll be home and it'll be fine? I was sure she would be home because she knew she had to make my mom's cake and I thought she would have probably called me but because I have no phone she couldn't call me. So like I was making a thousand excuses that like to me in my mind everything was still okay because I thought she'll be here soon. So when I actually woke up in the morning and got up then i was like okay this is weird where is she

so i i had no way of reaching her i had no phone what time was that when you got up between eight and nine i believe then my parents showed up at about 10 in the morning so so when they showed up so i told my mom, I said, shoot, we don't even have a cake. Melanie's not even here. I don't even have a phone. I don't know the name's friends where they're watching the movie. So my mom got worried right away. To me, I was still trying to think like, this is really strange, but obviously she must be okay. I just thought it was really weird. So my dad drove me to Tim Horton

because I thought, I guess I'm going to go buy a cape. And I asked to use their phone. So I called Melanie's best friend and I said, like, where is Melanie? So then she said, well, she should be home. So then she said, well, let me call them. Because, let me call them because I don't know their name. So you called the best friend. And what did the best friend exactly say?

Did she say anything about when they left or anything about where she saw them? No, because the best friend had left before, I believe. Melanie was still at the Chatwin house watching the movie when her best friend left. The friend then apparently walked to Melanie's house, where she was picked up and driven home by Melanie's grandparents. I saw the best friend after that. That's why I knew that the best friend left early. So I asked the best friend, like, can you reach them to see like why is melanie not home yet so the best friend said okay give me a few minutes so i'm still at tim horton waiting so i said okay so i'll call you back in a few minutes so she called their place and asked

like where was melanie and they said she left last night around 1 30 or 2 something like that so then I was like oh my god what's going on so then I got my dad to drive me to my close friend so I used her phone and called all the friends and all the people where she babysat in case she met one of them and they asked her to babysit or something like I was trying to make a thousand reasons that she was okay so right at that point after I finished calling everybody I was like okay this is so not Melanie because she always told me where she was she would never walk outside in the dark by herself like and she was always a homebody with her friends at my house so I never had to worry so

by that time I thought okay like something is not right so I called the police right away I said I know it's not 24 hours but my daughter never ever does anything like this that I don't know where she is something is really strange because they said she left last night around 1.30 and 2. So I said, something is wrong. Can you tell your officers that are on the road if they see a Black girl?

Because in those years, there was only three Black girls in town. So I asked the police, can you please ask your cruisers if they see my daughter to tell her to come home? I'm really worried. This is not like her.

So at that point, I left my friend's place. My dad drove me back to my house. And within not even long, all the firemen and policemen were looking under the bridge that she would have had to cross. So then it really hit home that, oh my god, something is really wrong. What time was it when you called police, would you say? I'm thinking, so if my parents are in with... See, I'm not clear about things like that. I can't be precise.

Maybe around one. And were you ever able to talk to the boys or the people that Melanie was watching the movies with? Did you ever speak directly to them about what happened that night and when she left and things like that? I had some help to put posters on around town from Jay. The boy where they were watching the movies that it really affected them big time the mother was really upset that her son had not walked melanie and like i've never put any blame on them for not walking melanie i don't know what happened i don't know why the boyfriend didn't walk melanie home i don't know what what really happened that night in that house other than the

parents were in bed sleeping and the kids were just watching movies and eating jewelry. That's all I know about that night. I've never really had a conversation with the boyfriend. It was a new boyfriend so I didn't really get to know him. I do believe that they're all good people. I've never heard nothing wrong about them. To me, they're not on my suspect list. I'd like to talk to them, to that family, the house where she was. Anybody that had seen her that night would be useful for me to talk to, and I'm sure... With so few details, the timing and the route Mel took are important.

What streets did she take? Where was she last seen? Where is the highest percentage chance of someone or someones taking Melanie? And how would they have done it? The house Mel was at is in the northeast quadrant of New Liskard, at the corner of Robert Street and Pine Avenue. Mel would have had to walk around a kilometer to get to her house on Wellington Street North, northeast quadrant of New Liskard, at the corner of Robert Street and Pine Avenue. Mel would have had to walk around a kilometre to get to her house on Wellington Street North, closer to the downtown area. At most, a 15 or 20 minute walk, not far.

She had to come down Pine, so I think it was like about maybe three or four intersections and then go down the bridge. And then she would have had to pass right beside a gas station. And then there's a back alley that as soon as you get up from that back alley, then you're right at our place. Is the bridge part of a main road through the town? It's the bridge that you have to go up to go, let's say you leave from Liskard to go to the mall or the police station, you have to go up that bridge. So it's a main bridge? Yes. Okay, it's a

main thoroughfare. It's when you cross town, you go through the bridge. Okay, okay. And would she regularly take the back alley or would she take the main street? It would probably be that it's kind of a street that goes right in front of a video store it used to be Mike Walton's video store. Okay. So as soon as she'd pass the gas station there would be like just one there's a there's a building on the corner and then she would just go up that little back alley. This route that Melanie took, or intended to take, is the subject of some discussion. But the general consensus seems to be that she would have gone down Pine, then south on Armstrong across the bridge over the Wabi River towards the downtown core of New Liskard,

then taken the shortcut across what Céline calls a back alley, and then up Church Street to her house on Wellington, located pretty much at the top of Church Street. Was there ever any indication from that time until this time that we're talking, has anybody ever come forward saying that they saw her at any point along that trip home? Did anybody come and say, oh, I saw her at X point or I saw her at this point? Well, for many years, there was never a sighting of Melanie. But then at some point, I was in Walmart, actually, in Ullaskerd, and somebody approached me and said,

so did the police tell you that I saw Mel that night? Me and my husband saw her on the bridge. So then I said, no, I didn't know. So I said, did you ever tell the police? And they had told an officer, but it was not entered in the information. So once I gave the name of the police, they were able to check back on his notes,

and yes, it had been mentioned, but I never knew all those years. That eyewitness is another potential next call. There have been other alleged sightings of Mel at or near the bridge from more recent tips and while it is impossible without photographic proof to know if the person was Mel, I'm most interested in any of the original sightings that predate social media and the rumor mill. So what time did they say or what time did they place her on top of the bridge there? They're placing her there around 1 30 or 2. Okay and then from the bridge to your place how far is that? Less than five minutes I'd say. Okay. And Melanie, her state of mind was fine?

Like there's no, she didn't have any psychiatric issues? No, there was no issues at all. No medications? No. No depression? Nothing like that? No, she was a bubbly person. Like when she'd walk in a store, like even during that week, she had bought herself some clothes at the Tri-Town Sport.

She had bought windbreaker and the pants and even when she bought the candle for my mom, like when the police had to go back to where she had been, the people in the store all described her as bubbly. Like she would walk in and she was loud and would say what she liked and like she was funny. She was never into drugs. i never had to worry about her help turn off hesitation turn off doubt turn off fears with your support the ymca of greater toronto helps people turn off whatever's holding them back so they can let their potential shine, help turn on confidence and connections and possibilities from youth shelters to job training, mental health counseling and beyond. The YMCA offers hundreds of programs that empower people to shine their brightest.

See our charities impact at YMCA GTA dot org slash charity. Oh, that coffee smells good. Can you pass me the sugar when you're finished? Whoa, whoa, whoa. What are you doing? That's salt, not sugar. Let's get you another coffee. Feeling distracted?

You're not alone. Many Canadians are finding it hard to focus with mortgage payments on their minds. If you're struggling with your payments, speak to your bank. The earlier they understand your situation, the more options and relief measures could be available to you. Learn more at Canada.ca slash ItPaysToKnow. A message from the Government of Canada. Physically, how big was she? She was not a big build, but she was about 5'5", 120 pounds.

What was she wearing at the time? So she had a green windbreaker. She had a white t-shirt with a blue logo. She had a black buckle belt with the silver buckle. She had jeans, black boots with just a bit of a feel, but like the thick one, like not a pointy thing. She had a necklace I believe she had her watch okay so then police you say that they were searching

under the bridge the next day well the police and the firemen like were looking on the side of the riverbank they had the police dogs around the high school where she was and from the house where she was that night. They had the divers, I'm thinking within a week. It was really hard because it's all clay down there and there's like they had to go by field because they couldn't see anything. Is the river fast flowing there? Does it have a current to it or is it just kind of lazily moving along in that river? It's not that big of a flow.

It's like the rest of the lake. So it's, sometimes it's pretty calm, like. And is it right at the mouth of the lake or is there a long stretch before you get to the lake? There's a long stretch. So from both sides, there's water. And Melanie, did she know how to swim? Yes. Okay.

So the New Liskard police brought dogs. Were the dogs brought in like the next day? Do you know? I'm thinking it's two, three days after. I'm not sure. And did the dogs ever pick up any scent? So I think, I don't think they got any sense of any place. So they didn't get anything from the dogs. Has there ever been any sort of aspect of clothing

or any remainder found that Melanie was wearing that night? I was told that there was nothing at all. Like, I'm just starting to hear rumours, I believe it's rumours that one thing was found, but to me that's just rumours. I haven't confirmed it to the police. I just found that out, like, this morning. Céline has been working on the case herself

and keeping in regular contact with the Ontario Provincial Police since Mel's case was transferred to them from the New Liskard Police. The various tips and case transfers always add layers of complexity to unsolved cases, but again, I will try to confirm what I can with police when I speak to them next. It's been very hard because there's been so many possibilities. There's been, because of people bringing information forward, it's almost like it's been a game for some people actually it's really weird to imagine all the different tips being true because there's been so many different story

and the minute i'm told one there's another one that comes out so obviously some some people are having fun with it because it's been ridiculous i've been told she's in a mine shaft. I've been told her body was burnt. I've been told her body was put through a wood chipper. I've been told that she's been put in a pond, that she's been buried. Like, I've been told just about everything. Some of the biggest tips have been that at the time when Melanie went missing, there was murder in our area in April of that year. And then Melanie went missing on September 29th, 1996. The person who was part of the first murder, there were one uncle and two nephews. So I believe that a lot of attention was put on them because everybody in town was saying, like, nobody else goes missing after they're in jail,

so it's got to be them who killed Melanie. So that was the biggest focus for many, many years. Like, we're at 24 years still, and Melanie's still missing. The uncle in the murder Céline is talking about is named Gregory Crick. He and his two nephews, Michael Lafreniere and Robert Goulet, planned and carried out the murder of Louis Gauthier. But later, Robert Goulet's body was found in a gravel pit and it was ultimately determined that Goulet was stabbed by either his uncle

or his brother after they suspected Goulet of telling people about the initial murder. The Crick murders as they've come to be called in the community are a main focus among the online theorists surrounding Melanie's case. Those three men lived in the area of New Liskard? Yeah, they lived in the area, not exactly in New Liskard, but within about 20 minutes, let's say, from New Liskard. And police, you think, looked into that very, very meticulously? Yes, I believe they really worked hard at trying to eliminate them as suspect because a lot of fingers were pointed at them.

The Crick murders and Melanie's disappearance share just one loose commonality that I can see, the timing. And Céline says that she's been reassured by police that they've looked into the theory extensively. And any other tip or explanation or theory that came forward that was something that you thought was more believable or that police had followed more closely? What Céline tells me next has the ring of something I should pay extra attention to. So to me, that was always the first, the biggest thing. But the other big story is also someone who I've known my whole life. Well, not my whole life.

Since he was maybe 17, 18. No, 19, I'd say. So I had a friend that I've known since I was six, and her boyfriend at the time, in my mind, he was also a suspect because of many tips that came forward to me. So her boyfriend at the time was Dennis LeVay. Céline's friend is named Sylvie Chartrand, and her boyfriend, Dennis LeVay, has been a suspect in Céline's mind for a long time. So right from the start, he was really involved in trying to find out what I knew from the police, what was going on. So anyway, so on the third day, somebody had arranged for me to go see a psychic. Hang on, so within three days of Melanie disappearing, you were going to see a psychic?

Yeah, somebody had stopped at my house and said, you've got to go see this woman. She's helped the police solve the case before, so you gotta go see her. Céline was willing to try anything in these initial days after Melanie's disappearance, so she went to see a psychic. She was driven to the psychic by Denis Lavey, and throughout the trip, Céline says, he was very agitated. Okay, okay, and this boyfriend was asking you information about what you knew, and what police were asking you and things like that? Yeah, like because they were, like we were there quite often.

Melanie was even there that exact morning, but apparently he was gone fishing for the weekend. That's what I was told. So anyways, about three days after he drove me because my car was still not good. So he drove me to the sidekick. He was very stressed about what was being said. days after he drove me because my car was still not good so he drove me to the sidekick he was very stressed about what was being said like he was making loud noise he was like it was really stressful for him so i thought that was fine so then i got back to liz curdy drops me off at my house and then he says well, whoever took Mel has to have marks because she made me marks, like play fighting,

and he lifted his sweater at his wrist and showed me he had nail marks, like deep nail marks, and he said it was from Melanie. So he said, whoever took Mel has marks because look at the marks I have from her from play fighting. And I thought that was odd because Melanie was in school all week. And then they were supposed to be gone fishing. So she should have never seen them that week. And the marks were so deep. Like it was just straight male mark like right down into his wrist.

And this fellow said that Melanie had made those marks. Yes. He said, whoever took Mel has to have marks because look at the marks I have from her play fighting with me. And how many days after Melanie disappeared did he show you these? So that's on the third day. That's the day I went to the psychic.

Because he lifted his coat sleeve just to show me those marks. I didn't see his arm. And it was really deep and red. And are you still in touch with this guy? He's dead now. Oh, he's dead. Yeah.

And did police look into him? Did you get them the information about him before he died? They've had the information from the beginning. So I was always under the impression that the police did look into him because of many tips that came forward, even from his friends saying they believe he did it. They believe that this dentist person did it. Yes.

And his story never made sense. And twice he even contacted me to go meet him in a motel room because he was going to commit suicide. So I thought, like I went both times thinking he's probably, maybe he's going to tell me he killed Melanie. Like, it was so weird. So anyway, so I went both times and nothing. What happened?

Was he there? Yes. Oh. Yeah, yeah. He was at the motel room. He wanted to talk. And did he talk about anything in particular? Yes, but not about Mel.

It was always about his relationship and how it was dysfunctional. So I was hoping he would talk about Mel, but it was... Did you ever ask him directly if he had anything to do with Melanie's disappearance? Okay, so at some point he ended up getting charged for sexual advance on a babysitter, on a 14-year-old. So he ended up in jail. So I went to see him in jail because I had totally pushed myself away from the family because of all the tips from friends that I was getting, from their friends. I went to see him in jail.

So I was there and I told him, I said, I need to eliminate you as a suspect, so let's talk. So he ended up giving me the name of somebody else who he believed killed Melanie. Celine says that Dennis mentions the name Goulet from the Crick murder case as a possibility for the person who took Melanie. I'll be asking police about their take on Dennis, the Crick murder story that Celine says they've told her they have investigated, and other theories. was back in town so I thought okay he's out of jail there's my chance to go see him again so I made contact with Sylvie his girlfriend who's my friend for many years and I gave her my cell number and I said okay so now that he's out I need to talk to him to eliminate him as a

suspect I said give him my cell number for him to contact me if not I'll be stopping in tomorrow so i waited the next day and had no no message then i got a call the day after that he had had a stroke oh so apparently he was well i've been informed by the daughter that he was so stressed that that's that i was going to go and talk to him about mel Melanie that she saw him that afternoon and anyways he was so stressed and then had his stroke so I went to see him at the hospital he was paralyzed on the one side and had lost his speech all he could say was pretty much make a sound kept on saying away away that's all he could say like there was no more

words coming out of him. He couldn't walk, couldn't do anything. So I went to see him quite a few times and I did the talking at some point and he was unable to tell me stuff, but he was only like, I thought that he knew what I was saying by his response. So anyways, he ended up passing. How long was it between having a stroke and passing away? How long was that? I'm thinking, I think it was about almost two weeks. Oh, just two weeks.

Okay. Yeah. So back at the jail, when you went in to talk to him and you first time said, Dennis, I need to clear you as a suspect in the murder or the disappearance of Melanie. What was his reaction? Well, I remember him saying that he would never have done anything to Melanie, that she was like a daughter to him. But to me, what made it suspicious is, oh, I forgot to add one thing.

What made it really suspicious is the day that he took me to the psychic and that he brought me home and then showed me the marks on his wrist and said it was for Melanie play fighting. On that day also, he told me, he said, oh, just so you know, Melanie was the stripper. I said, well, no, she wasn't. She was at her friend's place. So why would you say that? And he says, no, she was the stripper. I said, well, no, she wasn't. She was at her friend's place. So why would you say that?

And he says, no, she was the stripper. So I said, well, that doesn't make sense. I said, that's false. He's like, no, I swear. So I said, so you were there? And he said, yeah. The stripper at a bar, a local bar? Yeah, it's a local bar in Notre-Dame-des-Nord.

So that's about like, it's almost 20 minutes from Ulysses, 15, 20 minutes on the Quebec side. What do you think the likelihood of Melanie being a stripper at that bar in Quebec would be? So no, that's a zero possibility. So what happened, I had sent posters to all my relatives to put out in their different sections, like in Ottawa, Montreal, Timmins, everywhere. So one of my aunt had went to put posters in Timmins and she gave the posters to the lady from the restaurant. The woman said well she was here yesterday. So my aunt said what do you mean she was here yesterday? She said yeah she was sitting with so and so and gave name.

So my aunt told me that and i said well that's that's really a weird story so it ended up that that girl was the stripper from the trams north so there was some sighting at some point of them hitchhiking on the highway so wherever they would go the police would be called saying that they thought they saw melanie so all those tips got eliminated. Okay, well, that's good that that was eliminated. So I know that that was not Melanie. Like, I had no doubt in my mind that that confirmed everything. Melanie allegedly looking like this stripper caused many tips to come in, claiming to have

seen Mel. Dennis saying he saw Mel working at a strip club the weekend she disappeared, raised more red flags in Salin about why he was saying these things. There's been a number of theories around Melanie's disappearance that focus on the notion of mistaken identity. That Melanie was abducted or taken by persons because she was mistaken for this stripper or someone else. Another young woman allegedly looked like Mel, and she lived on Pine Avenue, the same road Mel most likely began walking down to get home on the night she disappeared. This other young woman supposedly had a drug debt, the story goes, and a rumor is that Mel was taken by drug dealers,

looking for their money. But for now, I'm more interested in Céline's hunch about Denis Lévé. Have you ever seen Melanie play with Denis or play fight with Denis? Well, I don't think she would have ever left marks on him, no. No, because it was really weird. But did you ever see her play fight with him? No, because it was really weird. No, like he could have grabbed her arm and she would have got away, but that would be it. Like I never seen her play with him that way.

I don't believe they did. See, Dennis ended up having quite a few sexual events on all of his daughter's friends when they were around the age of Melanie. I've requested Dennis' criminal record so I can see how any of these allegations Celine is talking about may have led to criminal charges or convictions for sexual assault or similar. One of his close, close friends came to me once and said, just so you know, I believe that Dennis killed Melanie

because at some point he saw a black girl in town and said, ooh, there's black chocolate in town, you know how much I love my black chocolate. And that was a young girl also. Dennis had said he was fishing when Mel went missing, but he also said that he wasn't alone and that he was accompanied by his brother Andre and his teenage stepson Jason and Jason's friend named Joel. I'd like to see if they can confirm whether Dennis was fishing that weekend as he claimed. Celine says she's not really gotten the answers she needed from any of the people Dennis said

were with him in his alibi. But after so many years, the details of who might have been with whom and when are fuzzy. It's possible the fishing happened on the weekend Melanie disappeared, or that it happened but on a different date, or maybe the fishing story didn't happen at all. And did your friend that was with Dennis, did she ever talk about any suspicions she might have had or give you any thoughts about that? No, she never talked about any marks on Dennis,

so she never talked about the marks on the wrist. She always said that they were fishing. She still sticks to that story. I've talked to Jason. He says he can't even remember where they were, and I mean, he was like a brother to Melanie, so they were close. So I spoke with the other kid, Joel, and he also says he doesn't remember. So they can't even tell me. And all I know is that Dennis, when he got back from fishing, apparently fishing,

he drove Sylvie to my house because she was waiting for him to have a ride to get to my house because there was no bus on Sundays. So she got to my house around 1.30 and I remember Dennis parking in front of my house, Sylvie getting out and him taking off. Okay, and didn't say anything to you? No, they didn't even get out of the car or nothing. What color is the car? What color is their car? I can't even remember because I've tried to get that information lately.

I've asked them and nobody is clear about nothing about that. So have police been working steadily on this case? I've always had lots of contact with the police. Like whenever I get information, I pass it on right away. That's good. I feel like Melanie has passed. I felt like that since the third day i don't believe i'm going to find her alive but i do want to find her body and then i feel i'll

be able to move on i believe melanie deserves to be found she's not just garbage that you threw on the side of the road i mean it really bothers me to think that somebody can just dispose of her and think that all is good. I mean, to me, I can't let it go. I need to find her. She deserves that much. Okay, well, let's leave it there. I'll try to keep making calls and connecting with people and finding things out. But I think we've talked a lot and I want to give you a rest and I'm going to push forward and try to get making calls and connecting with people and finding things out. But I think we've talked a lot and I want to give you a rest. And I'm going to push forward and try to get something going. We'll talk again. Okay, thank you.

Thank you. Okay, bye-bye. The first conversation I have with the victim's family sets the tone and makes my mission clearer. There's theories to look at and people to talk to, including police. But in cases like Mel's, where the victim has never been found, facts to cling to can easily be confounded by rumour and speculation. People will tend to fill in the unknown with a story that makes sense to them. I'm going to start at the beginning and try to talk to those who were known to be with Mel the day she disappeared. And at the same time, I'll try to find out more about the main theories

Céline has told me about. Is the notion of mistaken identity enough to end someone's life. And what about Dennis LeVay? What were those scratches on his arm that he said were from Melanie? The Next Call is hosted, written, and produced by me, David Ridgen. The series is also produced by Hadil Abdel-Nabi. Our senior producer and sound design lead is Cecil Fernandez. Emily Canal is our digital producer and our story editor is Chris Oak. The executive producer of CBC Podcasts is Araf Noorani. To see images from the investigation, find us on Facebook and Instagram at CBC Podcasts. If you're looking for more investigations, check out Someone Knows Something.

Each season I investigate a different unsolved murder, from a mysterious bomb hidden in a flashlight to two teenagers killed by the KKK. Find Someone Knows Something on the CBC Listen app or wherever you get your podcasts. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.