Someone Knows Something - The Next Call with David Ridgen: Episode 1 in the case of Nadia Atwi

Episode Date: December 8, 2022

“Where are you?”: On the morning of December 8, 2017, Salwa Atwi arrives at her daughter Nadia’s home for their regular carpool. Nadia doesn’t come outside. Four years later, there is still no sign of her.

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Watch both episodes now on cbc.ca slash Via Rail. Paid content with Via Rail Canada. This is a CBC Podcast. her son are waiting here as well. Hello? Hi, Salwa. It's David Ridgen here. Yes, hi David. How are you? I'm good. Do you have time now? Can we talk? Yes, yes, I do. This is Salwa Atwi. She's speaking to me from Edmonton, Alberta. It's been over four years

since she last saw her daughter Nadia in December of 2017. The best place to start in any case is with a family member. They can supply the best character and background about their loved one, and also valuable case information and investigative guidance. As with all cases where no body has been found, the question of what actually happened is more difficult to answer, and the unknown of it can be much more painful to live with. You know, I was at my lowest moment because I know her case is still open, but I don't know what to do anymore. In our culture, it's not nice to talk about your life and stuff. And this never happened before because we're originally from Lebanon.

But I think it's about time I should do it. I should do it. It's never happened before because we're originally from Lebanon. But I think it's about time I should do it. I should do it. I'm going to do my best to tell the story, but I hope you'll understand because she had a boy who was five years old. And as a grandma, as a parent, as a teacher, I'm always careful because I don't want to hurt. I don't want to do anything that will cause harm to that little boy. Yeah, I understand.

What's the little boy's name? Muhammad. Muhammad was two years old at the time of Nadia's disappearance. Okay, so maybe tell me a little bit more about Nadia. Okay, Nadia is my oldest child. She had a teaching degree. She graduated from University of Alberta and she didn't work as a teacher till 2017. She got a chance at a school, like a private school. 2017, July, that year I did retire. So as a mother, like I thought it would be good for both of us.

I'll help her. Sawa and Nadia both taught at Al-Bakir Academy, a Shia Islamic school in the southwest quadrant of Edmonton. The school was about a 40-minute drive away from Nadia's place, so carpooling was part of their lives. I go with her, so we were working together. And her husband used to work out of town, so we used to carpool. When her husband needed a car, we used our car. I drive from my home to Nadia's house, which is only five to six minutes away. She used to message me in the morning, say, Mom, can you come and pick me up?

Like today I'm driving, I will pick you up. The last time Sawa says she saw Nadia was the evening of December 7th. They had just completed the Islamic sunset prayer with the man who was the imam and principal of their school. The last time I saw Nadia, it was in the evening because we drove and it was around 5, 5.30. And I said goodbye. She looked kind of quiet, and she said, Mom, come for coffee. But I said, oh, it's okay, we're tired.

I'll see you tomorrow. And in the morning, she didn't message me. So I was a little bit later than usual, but I figured because her husband is in town, I should be taking my car. I drove to her house. The light was on. I called a few times.

Nobody answered. So from outside the house, you called? Yeah. Okay. So what time was this in the morning about? It was about 7.24. And is this December 8th? Yeah, December 8th.

That morning, one of the neighbors had a surveillance camera. You could see my car coming at 7.24 and I left maybe 7.28. When you were there at the house in the morning, did you see Nadia's car? Because of the way the neighbor's camera is situated in relation to Nadia's home, a clear view of their garage and therefore the car pulling away is not possible. So I knocked the door, her husband came down and he tried to close the door in my face. Sawa refers here to Nadia's husband, whose name is Ali. Ali Fnaish is in his mid-30s and has held jobs as an apprentice electrician and in transportation logistics in recent years. Sawa says they've always had a somewhat strained relationship.

I pushed the door and I said I'm not here to beg where is Nadia so he closed the door and I waited in the car I thought Nadia will come out but she she didn't come out. So I went back and I knocked and it was running late because we need about 45, 40 minutes in the morning to reach the school where we are at. She also says that when she walked back to knock at the door a second time, it was open. So I came back to the door and it was open. So I stepped in and I said, where is Nadia? Her husband wasn't pleasant. He wasn't respectful at all.

He shouted at me and he said, she's not here. He started yelling, which really upset me because I didn't understand why. So I went back to the car and I called my husband and I said if Nadia comes to pick me up tell her I drove to school. I didn't know what happened like I didn't know Nadia is not there. I didn't know if I go back I would react differently but I didn't know she's gonna be missing. I thought maybe she wants to pick me up. So I went all the way to school, and I stayed at school that day. I wasn't comfortable at all because I called Nadia twice,

and I sent her a message, and still on my WhatsApp, by the way. The kids shouted, we miss you, Nadia. I miss you, Nadia. Where are you? Where are you? I'm David Ridgen and welcome to The Next Call, the school on the morning that Nadia disappeared. She focuses on the timing of when Nadia was reported missing. It was around 9.50, but no answer. So I stayed at school, even though the principal said, if you need help, I said, no,

it's okay. I'll be okay. And at 2, 2.20 or something, it was recess time. The principal came and he said, I was approached by Ali. And he said, he reported her missing to the police. I'll be looking at the timing of when Nadia being missing was reported to police and by whom later. But Sawa says Ali came to the school looking for her that day at some point, perhaps around noon. Ali drove to the school. He didn't talk to me. He just went upstairs and told them, where is Nadia? And one

of the teachers said Nadia didn't come today because he needed the card. So it was too late for me to call a substitute. And still, I didn't take it seriously. A musician friend of Ali's named Jihad apparently drove him to the school that day. I'll have to be sure to try talking to him to see what he might remember about that. Okay. Okay. So he came to the school, he says, because he was looking for the car and discovered that Nadia wasn't there. Yeah. Okay. And then you say that Ali went and reported her missing to the police that same day? Yeah.

Yeah. And, you know, like, I blame myself. If I had known Nadia disappeared, I would have went home. I would have went looking for her. But unfortunately, like, maybe nobody thought it was serious. I want to speak with the principal about his version of what Ali said that day, and I'll also have to reach out to police and Ali himself. I asked Salwa when Nadia's car was found on the day she disappeared.

Originally, it had been reported in the media to have been found at 12.30pm, but Salwa says that was a misunderstanding, and that Nadia's car was actually found later in the afternoon at Rundle Park in Edmonton. The car was seen by somebody walking in Rundle Park and reported to the police around 4 o'clock. So that's when they knew Nadia is not there. Because her car was in a

ditch like in Randall Park, close to the exit of that park. And I didn't see it. We didn't see it. But they said there was a phone in the car and one shoe outside of the car.

Nadia's car was found overturned, wedged into thick December bushes, just off the roadside in Edmonton's Rundle Park, a vast public green space cradled by the North Saskatchewan River, about a 15-minute drive from Nadia and Ali's house. We were told that she was not able to leave from the driver's side. She had to leave from the passenger's side. Salwa says that a dark-coloured hijab was found in the car. Normally this would be something she would put on at home

and that would not easily come off on its own, but it is also possible that Nadia kept an extra one in the car. Also found in the car, her cell phone. A single shoe was reportedly found outside the car, but I cannot confirm it is Nadia's. Nadia herself, nowhere in sight, not even discernible footprints in the light snow. It was about minus six degrees Celsius that morning, warming up to one degree by the afternoon. Okay, and did police ever tell you how long they think the car had been there? Because it was in a ditch and it would have been noticeable, I imagine, or maybe it was in a place... That's what I mean. That's what I mean. Like we had so many questions and the detective

tried to answer them but till now it doesn't make sense. The amount of time the car was in Rundle Park is of crucial importance but it's not an answer that's immediately apparent. I turn the conversation back to Ali's relationship with the family. Okay, and where did Ali work? Where was his place of work? You said he worked out of town? He used to work in Yellowknife. Ali didn't have a good relationship with me and then her brothers.

And then before she disappeared, he was not talking to any of us. So there was no communication. Was there any explanation for his behavior towards you or the rest of the family? He told my son, even though your sister is missing, I can't go to your house because we have bad blood. And when was the last time you communicated with Ali? I had to see him a few other times when I used to see his boy, Nadia's boy. But unfortunately, we had to go to court and to get permission for only three hours, myself and my husband, only the crime parents, because the judge said, like,

it's better to protect that little boy from adults. Right. Okay. Yeah. So it was, yeah, there was a court order, and it was revisited a few times. In March 2018, Ali initiated a protection order against Sawa and others because he alleged they were harassing him about Nadia's case. He told the court he was fearful Nadia's parents thought he had something to do with her disappearance.

One of the claims Ali makes in the order is that he received calls suggesting that they were going to kill me, and that persons are harassing me on social media and slandering me. And finally, Ali writes an apparent connection to Nadia's family seeking visits with their son Mohammed. I think they are watching my home to know when I will be away. And in a sworn affidavit regarding the visitation rights of Mohammed's maternal grandparents and referring to Nadia's disappearance, Ali swears he had nothing to do with it. After Nadia disappeared, Ali and Mohammed continued to live in the same house they had bought in July 2017.

Yeah, they bought the house and they moved into the house in July She disappeared in December And Ali, I think, stayed in it for recently The house is for sale Okay, hang on, sorry, hang on one second One second Yes

Sorry, I just had my son talking in the background and I can hear him here Oh, you have kids? Okay, hang on one second. Yes. Sorry, I just had my son talking in the background and I can hear him here. Oh, you have kids? Yeah, I've got one child only and he's doing his university courses online. You sound so young. Yeah. You sound so young. So you are a parent. Yes.

You understand me. Yeah, of course. It's a horrible story. So, was Ali always... I mean, did he communicate with you or your family ever very well? Or did it come on suddenly? Or was this something that was always

part of the life? It's not our up and down, but me as a person, the only issue I had with him it was uh only give relationship like Nadia had to give give give give give all the time and I don't think she was taking anything in return but as a parent you know like she's an adult right and she loved him so I was standing by her and I keep talking like any parents. But yeah, he didn't like me.

He say it, like he sent me so many messages. I don't like you because you have negativity and stuff like that. But his mother was here and I kept good relationship with the mom. Ali's mother from Lebanon lived with him and Nadia in the past and for a period leading up to Nadia's disappearance. So what I can tell you about Ali, even though if he didn't have, we don't have to love each

other to be respectful, right? Until now, I don't understand why like he wants to make it more difficult instead of standing by us and helping us what was ali's what was his explanation for what might have happened to nadia he came up with so many stories i don't know for real if he told the police that because the police don't share what he told them right right okay yeah so i don't know if they share what we told him but because there is no evidence you cannot go and accuse people but for him he one of his reason he didn't want us to be around the boy is because we're gonna call him like're going to accuse him of the mother's disappearing.

And it's not true. Like I said it in my other David, saying that means we gave up on Nadia. It means that we don't believe she's alive and she's not going to come back. And we never did. Can you tell me what the police have been doing on the case? Yes.

First it was, I don't know, after like a few weeks, it was handled by homicide detective. And that detective unfortunately retired and it moved to another one. I could say they tried their best. They answered my phone call. We met with them a few times and we did all our concern and question. But maybe at the beginning, there are no evidence for foul play. That's what they keep saying. No evidence for foul play. No solid evidence that something happened.

And they're looking at the case as a missing person. No evidence of foul play, police say. Nadia is a missing person. So, where is she? Oh, hey there. I'm Andrew Fung, and I want to tell you about my new series with Via Rail. Join me as I ride on from Toronto to Ottawa and London aboard Via Rail's new fleet of trains. My journey was a breeze. No traffic jams, just smooth sailing. The seats are super comfy and with complimentary Wi-Fi I can work and play

with ease. Plus with meals and snacks on board I arrived refreshed and ready to explore. From a boat cruise in Ottawa to the Grand Theatre in London, these cities are packed with amazing experiences. For your next trip, do yourself a favor, skip traffic and take Via Rail. Watch both episodes now on cbc.ca slash Via Rail. Paid content with Via Rail Canada. At Desjardins, we speak business. We speak startup funding and comprehensive game plans. We've mastered made-to-measure growth and expansion advice, and we can talk your ear off about transferring your business when the time comes. Because at Desjardins Business, we speak the same language you do, business. So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us and contact Desjardins today.

We'd love to talk business. Tell me a little bit more about Nadia. What was her personality like? Nadia is my oldest child. I have four children. Nadia was full of life, happiness. You know, like she was born in Edmonton and she was educated in Edmonton. She went to school here from elementary to University of Alberta. When she was doing her university, she was stressed for a while and we didn't know. It was maybe 2008, 2009.

So, and we did see doctors and stuff and she was diagnosed as a bipolar by, I don't know, I can't remember, like 2010. And as a parent, and you have a child, and you know, so many things go in their life. One episode that Nadia experienced was while she was attending university. She wanted to see the doctor. They just look at it as a young lady who is in a different culture. She's not allowed to do much.

She is under pressure, so nobody talked about it. And we took her to University of Alberta. And then another episode, when she was married, it was in April. She went to the hospital, and unfortunately the doctor... During that same period, which occurred in spring of 2017, Nadia sent texts to her father that suggested she was having arguments with Ali. Nadia tells her dad that Ali had wanted to take their son,

Mohammed, away to Yellowknife with him, and Nadia didn't agree. Whether these texts could have been the result of one of Nadia's episodes or not, Sawa feels that Nadia's bipolar disorder is less of a factor in her disappearance. What I'm trying to say, Nadia's bipolar, it wasn't that bad that she would lose her memory. She wouldn't be violent or unapproachable. Like, they tried to portray her on the media. The first week she disappeared. Nadia's diagnosed bipolar disorder comes up frequently in past reporting on her case.

Now when I spoke to Nadia's husband, he said she has had similar bipolar episodes in the past and because she hasn't had her medication in over three days now, she may be confused. And if anyone sees Nadia, they should call police before they approach her. I wonder how this diagnosis may have impacted the theories surrounding Nadia's disappearance. A focus on mental health can lead to a conclusion that the individual was somehow unstable, and that conclusion helps to obfuscate other possible avenues that may be related to their disappearance. So diagnosed with bipolar disorder, so how did that evidence itself in her? How did she show any of her symptoms? lowest moment she'll be quiet and when i read her report and they say if you see nadia she may be disoriented or like i mean i haven't witnessed that if she is without medication uh like she

will be unapproachable like the media said right right was she on medication at the time see that's the problem because nadia was not living with us. She was at her house and I didn't know if she was taking her medication or not. And I mean, I'm not able to talk to her doctors. I do have some medication of hers at my house and we showed them to a family doctor who is related to us. And it was, like, maybe confirmed more than once. None of these medications, if you stay away without three days, that you will go into, like, suicidal mode or whatever. It's been suggested by some that Nadia's bipolar condition could have led her to commit suicide.

Okay, and did she ever display, to your knowledge, any kind of suicidal thoughts or tendencies? Did she ever talk to you about wanting to end her life or anything? Never. No. Like, we never ever witnessed that. I mean, you know, she never did, especially when she had a child. And it makes us wonder,

when somebody wants to commit suicide, especially if they are at a low moment, where would they hide their body? It's been years. Like, we didn't find anything from Nadia in that area where her car was found. This will give me hope that maybe she is alive. I'm going to ask others about Nadia's health

and hopefully we'll come up with a broad picture of her. For now, I bring the conversation back to Nadia as a person and her life with her husband Ali. The two first met in Lebanon, but it was only after Nadia and a person and her life with her husband Ali. The two first met in Lebanon, but it was only after Nadia and her family returned to Canada that they started their long-distance relationship. So she used to talk to him, and they met in person, and they did their engagement in Lebanon.

And he came to Canada in 2013. She did love her husband. She did everything she could maybe to make her relationship work. It sounds like they had at least at the beginning and maybe even at the end a loving relationship or at least a relationship where they were comfortable with each other. Did you ever get a chance to look at her cell phone? Or was it immediately given to Ali? No, it was given to Ali.

According to Sawa, the last message she received from Nadia was sent around 7 a.m. on December 7, 2017, the day before Nadia disappeared. A very short interaction. Sawa says, who is picking who? And Nadia says, you please. And Salwa responds, okay. And that is it.

That would be the normal timing for pickup for work at the school. And did Ali ever tell you directly what he thought happened that day? Did he ever say her timing, when Nadia left home, when the last time he saw her was? No, to be honest. It was at the beginning he was cooperating with a group of people looking for Nadia. Her brothers, her sister, her cousin. He would say, oh, she did that. She went before and she came back.

And see, this is another case. I mean, she never, ever went missing for so long and never showed up. She did a few times. She drove to Calgary because she loved Calgary. We lived in Calgary for eight years and we had a home there. So she used to tell us she feels happy when she goes to her old neighborhood. But never ever once missing like this. That's what makes it scary. Salwa says that Nadia's drives were a way for her to clear her head.

That the three-hour drive gave her an escape. Trips like this lasted about a day or so, and each time Nadia would eventually check in with her family or Ali. Ali appeared in a news conference alongside Edmonton police shortly after Nadia's disappearance. Just want to tell her that I love her, that I'm waiting her, her son are waiting her as well. We're all waiting you. Please, please, please, Nadia, we love you. This behavior is unlike Nadia. And believe me, she's very caring and kind, like sweetheart. She wouldn't want to make us worry for no reason. You know, she cared about her dad. She cared about us.

And she had a young son at the time, obviously. Yes, he was two years old. And believe me, she did love him so much. I can feel myself wanting to go back to the beginning and dig deeper, but I think Salwa has probably had enough of my method for now. Thanks for talking to me now. We'll talk again soon. Thank you, Salwa. Thank you. I hope you'll understand my situation. Thank you. Yes. Thank you, Salwa. I'll talk soon. Okay. Bye-bye. I've reached out to Edmonton police asking for their assistance in Nadia's case, but until I hear back, there are a lot of other people to approach,

in Nadia's extended family for one. So with Nadia, there's a lot of details that the public don't know, and you know what, it's just time to shine light on it. The Next Call is hosted, written, and produced by me, David Ridgen. The series is also produced by Hadil Abdel-Nabi. Sound design by Evan Kelly. Our senior producer is Cecil Fernandez.

Emily Connell is our digital producer and our story editor is Chris Oak. The director of CBC Podcasts is Arif Noorani. To see images from the investigation, find us on Facebook and Instagram at CBC Podcasts.