Someone Knows Something - The Next Call with David Ridgen: Episode 3 in the case of Melanie Ethier

Episode Date: October 13, 2021

Melanie’s 10-minute walk home becomes 24 years of unanswered questions. Did someone see or hear her that night? And what about Celine’s suspicions about an old friend of the family?

Help turn off hesitation, turn off doubt, turn off fears. With your support, the YMCA of Greater Toronto helps people turn off whatever's holding them back so they can let their potential shine. Help turn on confidence and connections and possibilities. From youth shelters to job training, mental health counseling and beyond, the YMCA offers hundreds of programs that empower people to shine their brightest. See our charity's impact at ymcagta.org slash charity. This is a CBC Podcast.

The following episode contains difficult subject matter and references to sexual advances, so please take care. I'm hearing all kinds of stuff, different things, and it's just... I don't know. Hello? Oh, hi. Is this Denise? Yeah, speaking. Hi, Denise? Yeah, speaking. Hi, Denise. It's Dave Ridgen calling. Denise was a student at a college in Sudbury, Ontario, in September of 1996, but she would return to New Liskard every second weekend to maintain her house.

And she was there at her home, just off Pine, the route Melanie likely walked the night she disappeared. Denise says she was doing homework. So that night, I was upstairs in the little bedroom, and I was typing on the computer, and then I heard some screams, but they were... It wasn't sounding like teenagers having fun, you know, those kinds of screams. It was more like scary kind of screams. I was in my own home and I felt scared.

I'm David Ridgen and welcome to The Next Call, episode three in the case of Melanie Ethier. And I was like, okay, the first time I just kept typing and then not long after, maybe, I don't know, 45 seconds, a minute, I heard some more screams. Denise's house is on Rebecca Street and would be around the halfway point if Melanie walked home west along Pine. Okay, so then describe the screams you heard. What did they sound like? Well, yeah, gender, I would say female for sure. Like shrieks or it's hard to explain.

And I went downstairs. First thing I thought was I better go check if my door is locked. And then I went to the bay window. I sort of, like, snuck by. Just to peek in the corner, I saw some, there were just, like, silhouettes or shadows running, like, in front of, in my street, like, in front of my driveway. So south, south on Rebecca. South, yeah. So they were running south on Rebecca towards Pine, these shadows.

Towards Pine. Right, so the Sunday when you were... Denise says this all happened around quarter to 2 a.m. on Sunday, September 29th, easily within the early margin of when Melanie is said to have left the house where she was watching the movie. She says the screams were all from a single person in trouble. And how many shadows? If I recall, I would say three.

Now this is close to the bar that was... Aren't you close to the Doc's bar? Doc's would have been just up behind on the right. Doc's was a popular bar in New Liskert at the time. It was located on the main street, just about a block bar in New Liskert at the time. It was located on the main street just about a block north of where Melanie would have likely turned south toward the bridge into town. On a Saturday night, Sunday morning, it would have probably been busy. Closing times had recently been changed to 2 a.m. in Ontario bars, putting people on the street around the

time Mel would have been walking home. Was it a regular thing to have people from docks kind of running down your street yelling at night or anything after the bar closed? No, not at all, no. I'd never heard that before. Just that night? Denise says she didn't see cars or car lights, and that her husband didn't hear the screams because he was sleeping soundly. And to her knowledge, nobody else heard or saw anything.

She also says she went to police with the information for the first time only about two years ago. I don't know. It kept bugging me and it kept coming back to me and I was like, well, what if it does have anything to do with it? I still see it in my head, like they headed towards Pine. And then everything went quiet. It's a good thing you came forward.

And if it was that night, then it does put people in the area who might have seen something, right? So that's something that's important. Is it connected? I don't know. in the area who might have seen something, right? So that's something that's important. Is it connected? I don't know. And I was thinking if it was her, that at least she would have made it that far. Then after that, we don't know. Maybe it wasn't Mel that Denise heard screaming.

But if someone else heard those screams that night, or made them for whatever reason, it would be useful to know. So, I did not know Melanie until the case actually, until she went missing. And that's when I realized, I guess that I had seen her one of the last time I guess that she was seen. This witness believes that she may have seen Melanie after she left the movie viewing at Ryan Chatwin's house. She will remain nameless to help prevent any possible witness harassment. When did you go to police? What was the date? It would have probably been in the 1990s and again in the 2000s. Okay, okay. So you say that you went in like a year or two after

Melanie disappeared, so that would be 97, 98 around there. That's right. Okay. So maybe just outline to me what you saw and when you saw it. So my husband was driving and we were coming back from a wedding. And as we were going up the bridge, I remember seeing this young girl and saying, Oh, she looks pretty young. And I remember saying to my husband, I didn't realize we had Black young girls living in Ulysses. That's how I remember it so clearly. And I thought, oh, she looks really

nice and she looks young. That's what I remember thinking. And I thought to myself, I didn't tell him that out loud. I thought to myself, she's pretty young to be out at night for that late. Then I heard that, you know, someone was missing. I didn't put the two and two together until I saw a picture. And that's when I realized that it was Melanie I had seen. This witness claims that her sighting of this person on the bridge occurred around 1 or 1.30 a.m., maybe. Timing from those watching the movie and from police has Melanie leaving at or around 2 a.m. Melanie then would probably be on the bridge between 1.50 and 2.10 if she made it that far, so there may be a slight discrepancy or the witness's timing is off.

Nevertheless, the girl the witness says she saw was coming into town, seen as the witness was driving out. And I remember, it was actually a very clear night for some reason, but I remember I didn't see any cars, I didn't see anybody else working around her. It was a very quiet night. So was September 28th the night of the wedding then? Yes.

And apparently when OPP looked into it, they said yes. That was the night of the wedding that I was talking about. OPP had told me afterwards that there were three weddings that night. Maybe that's why it was so quiet, because everybody was at one of the three weddings. That's what I was told. Okay, okay. And then was this person on the left side?

Like, as you were going north, were they on the east or the west side of the bridge? Were they next to you or across the road from you? Next to me. Oh, so they were on the right side. Yes, she was on the right side. She was actually closer to the outside of town. So on the east side and near the top of the bridge. It's interesting to me because this would mean if this person was Melanie,

she would have to cross the road to get home, but hadn't done that yet at this point in her journey. The witness didn't look back after passing and didn't notice if the girl crossed the road. Does your husband remember any of this? No, he's got a lot of memory issues because he had head injury, so that's not his fault. And do you remember any details about clothing, items, colours of clothing or anything like that? the one thing

that i remember saying that she was wearing jeans or something blue anyway for for pets but other than that i remember describing what she was wearing plus she had like the long hair the long dark hair was like dreadlocks what i remember the most is the dark skin and the dark hair with the dreadlocks. This sighting of someone who could be Mel on the east side of the bridge should be balanced against the amount of detail one might gather in such a short moment, against the witness's memory of the timing, and against the theory of mistaken identity. I believe that this person being seen probably is Mel, and that the slight timing discrepancy

can be put down to memory. And a quick impression from a drive-by discerning attributes of skin tone and hair length to me is believable. This detail about long hair, or what this witness calls dreadlocks, matches what Céline has told me about Melanie's hair length. Céline says that a few months before, she had braided Melanie's hair with extensions, giving her quite a bit of extra length. It was also reported that Mel was last seen wearing blue jeans. Céline has also said that one of the only other black girls in town who has been tied to the mistaken identity theory had short hair at the time of Mel's disappearance, lessening the chance in my mind that she could have been mistaken for Melanie. I look at what I've seen and it's like, I almost feel bad because it's like, did I miss something? Did I not see something that looked like there was an urgency somewhere?

And I never got that feeling when I saw her. I reach out to police to see if they will confirm this witness's account of timing or clothing, but they declined to assist on this, claiming it's a point of evidence. One of the more important things for me is to know that you gave this tip to police well before any of the media events about Melanie came out. Yes, absolutely. There's been other media coverage about Melanie, along with much online speculation, and even a fellow who claims he can hear Melanie speaking from the afterlife through some kind of radio wave set up.

For me, witnesses that predate all that and facts are more reliable. Any sense of urgency in the stride of the person that you saw or facial sort of expression? No, not at all. I didn't get that feeling that she was running from anything or anyone. She looked like she was just walking. I asked if she noticed the girl crossing the road, but she didn't see this. Well, see, that's the thing, yeah. Maybe she turned right after we went by, because I don't recall any other vehicles around us. So did she decide just to cross the road after we drove by?

Did you notice if there were vehicles coming up behind you on the bridge? Because I tried to replay it for quite a while in my head, and I don't remember seeing any lights in the rearview mirror. Okay, okay. I just feel that, I don't know if anything would have changed if I would have come a little bit sooner to the police and explain what I've seen. But I have big remorse about not coming sooner. And that just breaks my heart. Hello? Hi, it's David Ridgen calling from CBC.

So, start from what you saw that night, from before it happened and then after it happened, in as much detail as you possibly can. Another early witness I found who shall remain nameless. And what this second witness says she saw is around the timing of the first witness, with some significant differences. Okay, so my girlfriend was coming in from Sudbury and her son was playing the drums in a band at the

King George. So myself and another girlfriend, she wanted to get together. We could have a little visit and we could cheer on her son. After her friend's son finished at the King George around 1 a.m., the witness, her two friends, and the son went for coffee and a bite to eat at a restaurant called Norm's Forum. Then they left and began driving north on Armstrong Street. And then my girlfriend was driving her son over the bridge to bring him home. And I was in the back and I was just looking out the window.

All the other three were chatting and I was looking out the window and I saw a young girl come down the bridge and then this little car came up really fast. One guy jumped out of the passenger side, one guy jumped out of the driver's side. So I just watched the young girl come down the bridge and then I just saw this happen. And she kind of backed up a little bit so I thought maybe it was a boyfriend girlfriend little spat oh come on come on get in the car I'll take you home or you know that type of thing or come on to the party or something you know and then that's all I saw then the car took off

and it was just it was a little blue car and I like colored anyways and it was just, it was a little blue car, and I like colour anyways, and it was four-door, I'm pretty sure, but it was little, it had like a square top, and I remember thinking, these guys quickly and men getting out, this witness describes seeing this girl coming into town walking on the west side of the bridge. The previous witness had their sighting with the girl on the east side walking into town. Do you remember seeing this person that you saw on the bridge getting into the car? Because you really don't have a lot of time there. Yeah, she definitely got in the car. They were kind of surrounding her, so it happened very quickly. About how far down was the person on the bridge?

It was about the middle of the bridge. Okay, and it's pretty well lit in the middle of the bridge, right? Yes, we would have been coming over the bridge around, I don't know, 145, 150, somewhere in there. Do you remember any skin tone information? No. Okay, so you're not able to say whether the person you say was a girl was a black girl? No, no. Okay.

Saw a young girl. The first witness emphasized several times how quiet the night was with no cars seen ahead or behind and the black girl with long hair seeming unrushed and unconcerned. The second witness described seeing a girl who she cannot confirm was black and whose clothing she cannot remember details of. But she does remember seeing a car pull up, two men emerging from a light-coloured vehicle, and then approaching and interacting with the girl, and then departing. A lot to take in in a drive-by. I kept it to myself for a long time, and we got talking about that night. And then my girlfriend was like, yeah, you know, that was the night Melanie went missing. And then we kind of got chatting about it.

And then I got some information that she might have been taken from the bridge. And then I just was like, oh, my God, was that her? And then that's when I went right to the police. But I just had never heard anything back. When did you first go to police? You know, it was quite a few years later because I kept thinking it wasn't her. You know, life goes on. My father was dying at the time, stuff like that, all kinds of stuff, you know.

And then, that's the thing, I can't remember what year it was. 2008, 2009, somewhere in there. Okay. And you went in and you told the same story you're telling me? Yes. Hearing how this witness says she remembered her sighting gives me some pause. What led to what? Was it just a speculative chance conversation about Melanie and the bridge

that led to this witness's revelation about what she had seen? Was the discussion based on some general community knowledge about Melanie being taken from the bridge? I'm not sure there was any media coverage about a bridge sighting until a November 2010 TV broadcast came out, possibly based on a release from police of information from the first witness I spoke to. I dig for some assurances here.

Did you ever hear anybody tell you that they saw Melanie on the bridge and a car pull up and two guys got out? Did you ever hear that from anybody else before you went into police? No. Okay, so where did you get the information that she might have been taken from the bridge? I don't know whether it was on... One of my girlfriends had mentioned that to me. I don't know whether it was in an interview or on a

I don't know what, like we're on a TV show or I'm not sure. But you heard that first and then you remembered? No, I always remembered. Okay. I always remembered it. Both witnesses could have seen the same person if the female had crossed the road on the bridge immediately after the first witness passed by and if somehow the first witness missed seeing the speeding small car heading south on the bridge.

Also, the scream. Does it fit in with seeing a girl walk on the bridge apparently unworried or with a girl being approached by two men getting out of a car? I need to talk to police. Help turn off hesitation. Turn off doubt. Turn off fears.

With your support, the YMCA of Greater Toronto helps people turn off whatever's holding them back so they can let their potential shine, help turn on confidence and connections and possibilities. From youth shelters to job training, mental health counseling and beyond, the YMCA offers hundreds of programs that empower people to shine their brightest. See our charity's impact at ymcagta.org slash charity. Are you sure you parked over here? Do you see it anywhere? I think it's back this way. Come on. Hey, you're going the wrong way. Feeling distracted? You're not alone. Whether renting, considering buying a home, or renewing a mortgage, many Canadians are finding it hard to focus with housing costs on their minds.

For free tools and resources to help you manage your home finances or renewing a mortgage, many Canadians are finding it hard to focus with housing costs on their minds. For free tools and resources to help you manage your home finances and clear your head, visit Canada.ca slash ItPaysToKnow. A message from the Government of Canada. Hello, Rob Matthews. I'm here with Corey Betts. Hi, Corey. Hi, David. How are you? I'm good. I don't think we haven't, we haven't never spoken before, I don't think, in any case, have we?

No, we haven't. Rob Matthews is a detective inspector with the Ontario Provincial Police and is the senior officer on Melanie's case. Corey Betts is currently the lead detective. Oh, okay. Okay, that's great. I know Céline has mentioned you, Corey, so I know that she's probably pretty involved with you on a day-to-day basis. Yes. Very much so. Police verify that they received their earliest tip about a bridge sighting 12 years after Melanie disappeared. When was it?

2008. 2008. It was just a sighting of seeing a young female on the bridge. This first tip police received was only of a girl on the bridge as we've heard in the story of the first witness I spoke to. I ask about the tip from the second witness who says she saw a girl on the other side of the bridge with a car pulling up and two large men walking up to her. How do I say this? We have some concerns with that statement because of certain details she provided. Okay. From an investigation perspective, it would be difficult to see what she reported to have seen.

So I'm not saying she didn't, that this may or may not be valid information. We have everything in the file, and hopefully one day we'll have the answer and know which piece of evidence fits. At this point, it's information that we have received that may or may not be of value. We just don't know at this point, it's information that we have received that may or may not be of value. We just don't know at this point. Other sightings of Mel on the bridge have come into play more recently

after rounds of sometimes conspiracy-tinged social and other media, and I asked police for their take on those tips, most of which describe variations on the theme of Mel being seen and then taken forcefully from the bridge by men in cars of different colours. We don't believe that that's credible. The information that we received in 2008 is the most credible. Again, as I said, we don't know how valid it is. Right, OK. Until the end of the day, we don't know how valid it is right okay until the end of the day we won't know i ask about the tips about mel that may have been generated out of the man who claims his radio waves can

decipher communications from the dead the gentleman on youtube has created nothing but issues for us because you know this is a 24 year old-old, 25-year-old investigation now, and we need credible facts to come forward. And, you know, psychics, we do look into it because, you know, does a psychic actually know the information because he or she is a psychic, or do they know some information because they've actually spoken to someone or were somehow involved? We leave the psychics behind. Next, police confirm they checked for surveillance cameras along Mel's route. They checked who was staying at the wheel inn and they had a cruiser parked

outside Doc's bar all that night. I wonder about the aging apartments at the south side of the bridge with the Mr. Gas station next to it. Mel would have likely taken a shortcut there to get home. Did police look into the residence of that building? That apartment building was occupied at the time. Did police go through there talking to people and canvass that building? Yes, we did. When we do canvasses, our standard practice is to knock on every door, ask who resides in the apartment, and speak to everybody.

We have to rely on whoever answers the door to be truthful. If they say they're home alone, we don't have the authority to go in, so we have to take it at face value. So I can say that it was canvassed and investigated the leads that came out of that, and they didn't take us anywhere. Something about the timing in the early morning hours and the lack of physical evidence in Mel's disappearance makes me think that she was more likely taken by someone familiar with the area, a resident of New Liskard or one of the surrounding towns, or a regular visitor. I think there's a stronger indication that it was someone local

or someone that knew the area. This is just based on my sense of investigative experience. Interesting. And knew the area. As opposed to someone that's just a truck driver that, contracted to go from Nova Scotia to BC. I think if a transport truck was driving down that street, we would have had some tips. It's still possible that it was a transient, someone moving through. But it seems more likely that whomever was responsible for Melanie's disappearance had some knowledge of the area. I ask about Denise's scream tip. Even without knowing for sure if Melanie was the person

seen on the bridge, I'm thinking it could be important information. If Mel was not the person seen by the bridge tipsters, was it her scream that Denise heard? And if Mel was the person on the bridge, could she have been startled earlier on in her journey home, or could the same shadowy people somehow be involved in Mel's disappearance? Police say they completed an exhaustive canvas of the Pine Avenue area, and that Denise's information may or may not be related to the case. Now for some of the other more credible theories I've heard and what police think of them.

The Crick-Gautier-Goulet case, which continues to come up. Has OPP looked into the Crick case? We're fully aware of, I'll say, those investigations. Yes, but you have looked into it more than just taking the information, right? Yes, we have. So what you can probably take from this is we have not made any arrests, so at this point it has not revealed anything of significance at this point. I then mention the girl who some have theorized Mel was mistaken for. Did police look into that?

We are certainly aware of her. Another young female in the area that on occasion was mistaken for Melanie. That's about as far as I will go with that. Yeah, and the mistaken identity... Police will not commit to whether the drug deal mistaken identity tips or any others for that matter have led to anything productive for them. But to date, there have been no arrests related to any of them. I wonder what police think of Dennis LeVay, the man with the scratches. So, Celine has told me a story about a guy named Dennis LeVay,

the boyfriend of one of Celine's friends, Sylvie Chartrand. About three days after Mel disappeared, Celine was with Dennis, and he showed her some marks on his arm, deep nail marks, that he said were from Melanie. And he said, whoever took Mel has marks like this because she must have fought them.

But I guess Dennis has died since then. But does that story ring any bells to you? Have you heard that? We were aware of that. Okay. Okay. So that's a story that you know of and would it have been looked into before Dennis died? Yes.

And that yes is all I get from police about their investigation of Dennis LeVay. You know, we would like nothing more than to solve this case. And, you know, I think with your assistance, we will have a greater chance at doing so. I mean, because, you know, I will be honest, there are some individuals that we have gone to repeatedly and, you know, they are of a certain ilk and they just won't talk to the police. You may have a greater chance of success than we will. Celine and I update each other over messaging, but it's clear by her tone and style that some pressure related to Mel's case is building in her. I decide to call her.

Hello. Hi, Celine, how are you? Well, I could be better. What's been happening? I don't usually say that, but it's just because I feel like I know the truth right now. I feel it in my heart that I know the truth. Since we first spoke, Celine has been looking more closely at Dennis LeVay and his fishing alibi.

And she's more convinced than ever that there's something there after she has spoken to people who knew him. People that she would like me to speak to. This is all facts. This is like what I totally believe in my gut to be the truth. So I feel like this is it. I can feel it in your voice and your excitement. I'm shaky. Like I'm so, I'm so angry though. Like I'm shaky. Like, I'm so angry, though. Like, I'm like... Well, you definitely, I mean, you did all you could do, though, right? You went and you had a stroke. You were in the hotels talking to him. You were in the jail.

Yeah, I went to jail to talk to him. I went to the hospital until the last minute. Yeah, I don't think you should feel guilty or anything like that. You did everything you possibly could and more. And then, you know, even more than that. Together, we compile a list of possible leads, and I map out my next steps. Please, no, I'm helping you work on the truth. This is a good direction, so let's work with it.

Hello? Hi, is that Sylvie? It is. Hi. Sylvie Chartrand, Dennis LeVay's partner for 37 years. After several messages, we finally connected on the phone. If anyone knew Dennis, I think it would be her. This is the first time Sylvie is speaking publicly about Dennis or Melanie's case.

I'm very appreciative. I'm always happy to talk to people that can talk to me about what they know. Definitely. And for my Melanie, I'll do anything for my Melanie. So let me start with just how did you know Melanie? Well, Siddin is my best friend. And we've been friends since we were six years old. So we grew up pretty well together.

And then I had my son at 18, and she had Mel at 18. And we were always in each other's lives. So Mel, I took her as my own daughter. I was very, very close to her. She was a bubbly person, full of life. She loved people. I loved her character. I loved spending time with her.

I've become kind of a huggy person, so when she'd come, she'd get all the hugs that she wanted and lots of love anyways from my family. Again, Melanie disappeared in the early morning hours of Sunday, September 29, 1996. That Saturday, just hours earlier, Melanie had dropped by to visit Sylvie. We were just her and I and my daughter, and she just came for a visit about an hour, I would say, and she was talking about her new job that she got and then she happened to break a nail

and she was really upset because I guess she was growing nails and I was just laughing at her thinking it's just a nail, Mel, you know? But for her it was big. But anyway, so we spent like a nice time together and she, I guess she was going through some rough times because i guess with celine and they were struggling like they didn't have a vehicle that was working and i guess they

didn't have a phone i think at that point because i guess money wise and stuff that was just what she was talking to me about you know that she was upset a little bit of that. But I mean, it was just sitting, you know, she was doing the best that she could. And then she left and I was watching her go down the hill. And that's the last time I seen her. Sylvie knows why I've called, so no point in holding back. So tell me about Dennis then. So you were with him for 37 years and he's passed now. Dennis was a guy that, like he was a good person and then he had a bad accident so he had to start

taking a lot of medication. On June 17th, 1990, Dennis LeVay was in a head-on collision with a young girl who was driving while impaired. Dennis suffered injuries and was awarded over $600,000 from a civil suit in 1993. He was 29 at the time of the accident. Yes, and then that guy, like his whole life changed. And with the medication that he would have to be on, it was always always always because that guy lived with pain all the time what were the injuries he got from the

accident his back he had um fused um he had like plates and stuff like that like it was tough like even his legs his toes like he had a brace for his back. Did he have trouble walking? Oh, yes. He was getting worse and worse for walking. Dennis reportedly began taking OxyContin for pain and soon lost much of his settlement money on a failed investment scheme. And while Sylvie says Dennis had pain and trouble moving, it didn't seem to stop him from continuing to do heavy work as a driller in the mining industry. So then after that, Dennis, he lost a lot of his money, so he had to go back to work,

which he should have, but he really wanted to because he was a driller. So Dennis was always gone from home, sometimes two months, three months at a time. Where was he drilling? He would go in Northwest territories. He went to Mongolia. Like he went a lot, a lot, a lot of places that he'd have to fly. So he had trouble walking, but he was able to work a drill. So it couldn't have been that difficult for him to move around then if he was hefting drills.

Yeah, but he still did it, but of course with medication. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, of course. He had no choice. Céline would bring Melanie and her other daughter, Jessie, over to visit Sylvie frequently. Melanie was the same age as Sylvie's son, Jason. Denis Lavey was Jason's stepfather.

Well, because Céane and Melanie and Jesse lots of times they'd come to our house, and Jason and Melanie were really close. They were like brother and sister. So it was always like a family kind of thing. They'd come for supper with us, and as far as I knew everything was always good. And I'm pretty sure at times even Mel took Dennis like a dad figure kind of thing. Now, do you remember what Dennis was doing around the time that Melanie disappeared? I guess it must have been that Friday, Dennis with my son,

and then with my son's friend, Joelle, they would get ready to go fishing. So they were packing some stuff and then they left to go fishing. So me, I was used to that. Dennis would say, oh, I'm going to go fishing and I liked it because I was so used for him to always be gone. So that was my time for myself,

like for him to be gone, like the weekend or something. So as far as I knew, that was what was supposed to have happened. I'll have to talk to Dennis' stepson Jason and his friend Joel if I can find them about what they might remember about that weekend. They were all allegedly on this fishing trip together. I ask Sylvie what vehicle Dennis drove at the time, and she says a grey truck but doesn't know what kind,

and that Dennis sometimes drove his mother's smaller grey four-door car. Was Dennis a larger guy? Like, was he a big guy? Yeah, Dennis was a big guy. Like, how big? Well, him, it's not because he was fat, he was just like a really big guy. Like, I think he was like six feet some, and he weighed like over 200 some pounds. I asked Sylvie if police ever talked to her or Dennis about Melanie's case. She claims that police may have spoken to her many months afterward,

but she doesn't remember the interaction. Did they ever talk to Dennis, you know? No, as far as we know, no. That is so, so weird. Then Sylvie tells me a story about Dennis returning to their house on the Sunday that Mel disappeared. Dennis came into the front entrance to the house, walking up apparently with his stepson Jason, and Sylvie was there.

It was later, I think it was 4 o'clock, I think. And as soon as when they walked in, I told them, I said, Melanie's missing, and I, you know, I'm a pack of nerves, I just want to go, I just want to go because I can't reach her in other ways, and she didn't have a phone. And then Dennis says, oh my God, like, look at the marks that she did on me. Dennis says, whoever would have took her or did something to her, because she's strong, says, look what she did to my wrist. Like, look what she did to me with her nails.

Right. And can you describe what you, like, the marks on the wrist? Like, it was, I guess, it must have been, like, scratches, I guess. And does Jason remember them? I'm pretty sure he remembers more than me anyways. So, Jason, did he come in the door with Dennis? Yeah. And then Jason just noticed the marks then, too? Well, yeah, and that's when Dennis, you know, said, well, look at this, you know.

And hadn't Jason just been supposedly with Dennis the whole weekend though supposedly okay he doesn't even remember where they were because apparently Dennis was at a bar and my son at that point was 15 so he couldn't have went in the bar so he they have no idea where they were so like I was, I was really, really upset with that because, you know, where were my son and his friend? What could you tell me about play fighting with Dennis? Did you ever witness Melanie play fighting with Dennis? Well, yeah, because they were just, well, it was not like they were on top of her or nothing like that.

They were just, I don't know, like, because Dennis was always like that. Like, even with me and my daughter play fight and stuff like that, but nothing to put marks on ourselves. It was just like, you know, he'd run after me or just stupid, stupid things, kind of. But I would not say that it would cause Melanie to have marks on herself with the play fighting that they would do at my house. And did you ever see Melanie get so involved in the play fight

that she would scratch him like that? No, no. But that's why I say he never had marks like that. Or she never had marks or he never had marks. Can you remember if they were pretty fresh looking, the marks? They seem to be, yeah. When you're thinking about the marks on his wrist now, do you remember which wrist or which arm they were on? Oh, no, I don't remember

now. That's okay, that's okay. And do you remember, did he have a shirt sleeve over them or did he have short sleeves on when you saw them? It must have been like, for me to just see the wrist, it must have been long. A sleeve, okay. You know what I mean? Because then I would have seen, yeah. And did it make sense to you or does it even now make sense to you? Like would Melanie have been play fighting with him? Because you said that he wasn't there on the 28th when she came over. So when was the next earliest time that they would have had a play fight in your presence

or to your knowledge? That's what really troubled me, was talking to the investigator and thinking, you know, of all the lies that Dennis told me. And, you know, with the marks of Mel. So, you know, is he involved with what happened to Mel? Like, I lost it. I really took it really, really, really hard because he shouldn't be having marks. There's no way. You know what I mean?

Like, it's... Yeah. There's no way. And did he ever talk about Melanie after she disappeared, Dennis? I know he used to say whoever did anything to her, he was going to go and kill the guy. Right, right. Now, tell me about Dennis's record, because I understand that he served some time.

Mm-hmm. Is that something you can talk about? Dennis went to jail because Dennis was a guy that tried to do things with young girls. So that's what I know so far. And now I'm hearing about different girls and stuff like that. It was all hidden from me. A lot of it anyways. Not all of it, but some. I have received at least some of Dennis' criminal files from the courthouses in Haleybury and Bracebridge.

In 2006, failing to comply with an order to not associate or communicate with several people. In 2012, death threats, assault with a motor vehicle, possession of a taser, and various probation violations. And in 2013, sexual interference, touching a person under the age of 16 for a sexual purpose. There may be more records out there. Sylvie claims to have known little about Dennis' charges involving young girls but says her daughter Steph knows more about it. Yeah because Steph had a, they were at our house and Dennis went to see one of

Steph's friends in the sunroom and he was asking her if she ever experienced an orgasm, because he'd like to make her experience an orgasm. I don't know. I'm not sure. I don't think that it ever did. Sorry. That's okay. That's okay. I'm hearing all kinds of stuff, different things,

and it's just, I don't know. I knew about the girl that was at my house because that was my daughter's best friend. And that's how it all started. You know, Dennis would try to have, you know, intercourse with Stephanie's friends, you know. But if he touched somebody, I don't know. What are the dates of the sunroom incident?

Oh, God. In the sunroom? Oh, good question. I don't. You're looking at in the 2000, I would think. Sylvie remembers an incident involving Dennis and a teenaged girl. A 14- or 15-year-old, she says, that Dennis had convinced to come babysit his granddaughter somewhere around 2012 except there was nobody to babysit and Dennis made sexual advances on her. This could be the sexual interference charge that came up in the court documents I obtained.

I guess he tried with many, many people. That's why I say I'm finding lots of people, it's like he would do that and I didn't even know about it. Sylvie says Dennis told her that he was abused as a child. When Dennis was, when he grew up, he was sexually abused by men, like young men, I guess, and the babysitters. So he's seen a lot of that in his life. His mom would drink a lot. He would get hit and stuff like that.

It was just, he had a bad, bad childhood. And I'm not excusing for what he did or whatever, but he grew up in a bad environment. Tell me a bit more about Andre then. What was Dennis' relationship like with his brother? Dennis, growing up, he took care of Andre pretty well because, like I say, his mom and dad, they would drink and they would party.

And he would be left, because he has two brothers and a sister, so he would be left taking care of them while his parents would be partying. So I know like Andre was still in diapers, I guess. And so he took care of him like pretty well, like his own kind of thing. So when Dennis was pretty young, I would say at that point. So they were really, really close. They were reportedly close, but Sylvie says Dennis and Andre had some kind of falling out. Do you remember what year that might have been, were they separated like that? I would say it's in the year 2000, I guess, somewhere around there.

Even his other brother didn't want him to be around his daughter. He's done lots of damage, lots and lots of damage, that man. Has Andre ever talked to you about Melanie or about that case? Her case? No. When was the last time you talked to Andre? Two years ago, maybe? I'll try to talk to Andre, but for now, back to Dennis. You say his behavior changed when he took drugs?

Well, with the cocaine, because I guess it really changes you. Because the other drugs that he would take, like deoxycodone, he could do a little bit more, like in his garage and stuff like that, because it would help him with the pain. But the cocaine, I guess it was just, sexually, I would think,

he would just be different, you know, that way. And that's when I think he just thought that he could get away with all that stuff. And terrible. Like, I mean, I was with that man for 37 years. I never had any ways of even thinking that he could have done this to Mel. And I never even noticed anything different about him. You know, it's weird. Like, you know, like he played it very well.

Like if he's involved in it, like he played it very, very well, if he's involved in it, like, he played it very, very well. But it's just too weird. It's just too weird. Sylvie's now questioning all 37 years she spent with Dennis, his behavior around the time Mel went missing and the scratch marks, and his various assaults. But also something else she found out about Dennis' whereabouts over the weekend that Melanie went missing.

Now we find out that he was not fishing. So I don't even know why he would have lied about it, because Dennis could do whatever he wanted. And then I found out different, because apparently they didn't go fishing. Okay, and who told you that? Well, he told my daughter. Oh, Dennis told your daughter? Yeah.

According to Sylvie, Dennis told his daughter Stephanie that he wasn't actually fishing that weekend. So where was he? I'll have to verify exactly what was said with Steph, and I'll check in with the others supposedly with him. Jason and his friend Joel, and Dennis' brother, Andre. Do you think Dennis had something to do with Melanie's disappearance? I think so. And that is destroying me so much. The next call is hosted, written, and produced by me, David Ridgen.

The series is also produced by me, David Ridgen. The series is also produced by Hadil Abdel-Nabi. Our senior producer and sound design lead is Cecil Fernandez. Emily Canal is our digital producer and our story editor is Chris Oak. The executive producer of CBC Podcasts is Arif Noorani. To see images from the investigation, find us on Facebook and Instagram at CBC Podcasts. And if you're looking for another podcast to listen to, check out

A Death in Cryptoland from CBC Podcasts. Find it everywhere you get your podcasts. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.