Someone Knows Something - The Next Call with David Ridgen: Episode 5 in the case of Melanie Ethier

Episode Date: October 11, 2021

The final regularly-planned episode. New information about Melanie’s case continues to come to light. What does this mean for Celine and the case?

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The following episode contains difficult subject matter and references to sexual assault, so please take care. I was so afraid of him until he died. I remember I would see people that would look like him and I would get like anxiety attacks. Hello, Jason speaking. Hi, Jason, it's Dave Ridgen calling. Can you hear me okay? Hey, I can hear you loud and clear. How are you doing?

That's good. I'm great. Thanks for... I have finally made a connection with Jason Chartrand, Denis LeVay's stepson and one of the people who Denis included in his alibi for the weekend that Mel disappeared. Jason was 15 when Melanie went missing and has never talked publicly about that time before. Can he set the alibi straight? Melanie and I, we knew each other back to our childhood years, essentially, because both of our moms knew each other really well. They were close friends. So, you know, kind of circumstantial, but we were brought up together. And I guess that's how the relationship was built.

Jason and Melanie were the same age and attended the same French school in New Liskard. And you and Mel never dated. It was just friendship, right? Just to be clear, you guys were not. Yeah, that's a good point. And, you know, I mean, never did I have any type of sentiments that would even kind of lend to that. We were just really close friends. Right. Okay.

So tell me what happened that you can remember around the time that Mel disappeared. What were you doing? Crazy thing is, you know, this is like 25 years ago. And it's weird how, you know, there's a few things that I remember and then there's just this whole other part that I just don't know what happened or where I was really and you know when it happened you know it was a shock to everybody so I guess that's kind of the trauma or whatever you want to call it and then there's a lot of things that Celine would like me to know but I just don't remember yeah and it must be really hard because of all the other information that's out there about Mel

that you must, even if you try, you probably still see it out of the corner of your eye. And then you try to not integrate it into your own memories. I'm sure that it can be confusing for you. You know, kind of what I'm leaning towards is that I had gone away for the weekend. I had gone away with my stepdad, my best friend Joel, and my uncle. And what I remember there is we went up past North Bay and we went to see motocross races.

That is the memory that kind of comes out when I'm thinking of what happened, or where I was, rather. After years of it being that he had been on a fishing trip that weekend, Dennis' story changed shortly before he passed away. According to Jason's sister Stephanie, Dennis stated that he had actually been at some kind of motocross event. At the time, motocross in Ontario was popular,

and Andre, from what I have been told, used to own a dirt bike and race them. But it's not clear to me that Jason actually remembers where they were. Is Jason's memory of this weekend based on his own experience, or on hearing about what Dennis said from his sister? I'm David Ridgen, and welcome to The Next Call, episode 5 in the case of Melanie Ethier. I think my mom remembered that and I said, oh really? I mean, why would we go fishing with Andre close to North Bay? I don't remember any places to go fishing near North Bay. Like when we go fishing, David, we typically go to a few lakes past Tamagami. For some reason, I kind of remember us going past North Bake somewhere between and listen this is just kind of a gut memory

I kind of feel that that's where we went it's it's it's kind of strange I don't know it's uh it's it's a weekend for some reason I I mean other than getting the news that Mel had disappeared and kind of that mental image of it being kind of an afternoon type thing, it's hard to get my memory back on that. Jason says he did go to motocross with Dennis and Andre quite a bit, and since his memory on this is hazy, I wonder if he might be confusing this weekend with another. He also does not remember which vehicle he might have been in that weekend.

Now, would you have taken motorbikes with you, or rented them there, or how does it work? Did you have to take Andre's bike? Yeah, no, no, you bring your own motocross when you go for races. Okay. So, I mean, you know, Joel would have brought his motorbike. And, you know, I know that there's this whole thing, too, about, well, which vehicle did you go with? For some reason, I just don't remember that either. If you were taking a motocross bike with you, which vehicle would you take? You would take the truck, right?

Yeah, correct. And, you know, Joel had a truck, too. So, I mean, would he have taken his truck? But, yeah, hold on. He's my age. He's 15 15 so he can't really drive yet yeah so it would have been one of the one of the men driving the his truck or something then or yeah taking their own truck yeah okay okay so there is a memory i think your sister has said that it was a car that had been taken because dennis had said that to them. This is Aunt Sherry's car? Yeah, correct.

Well, that's not something that I knew, but she told me that, you know, Dennis said that we went there in a car, and I'm like, if we went fishing, why would we have gone in a car? If we went to see motocross races, why would we have gone in a car? Like, you don't really do that. It's weird. And then everything else is kind of a blur to be honest and unfortunately I mean I didn't write anything in a notebook or I don't I don't remember much and is it normal I mean I was 15 40

now but having said that like why didn't I get questioned I mean I should have I find that really strange. Are you absolutely sure that you were there on that weekend watching motocross or do you kind of have a doubt? No, I'm not absolutely sure. I'm not absolutely sure. It's kind of fuzzy. It's more of well, I think we were there kind of.

That's where I think we were. But I do know for sure that we came back somewhere and I was with Dennis. That's for sure. So we were, but I do know for sure that we came back from somewhere and I was with Dennis. Okay, so that's... That's for sure. So we were gone somewhere. I asked Jason about the strip club story that Celine says Dennis told her shortly after Mel disappeared. But he says he doesn't remember going to a strip club or a bar.

Jason does say, however, that he vividly remembers the moments around being told that Melanie was missing. Okay, so the Sunday you recall coming back and hearing that Melanie had disappeared, was it the morning, would you say, or the afternoon? If I had to give you my get on that, it would seem like, I don't know, probably like noon plus or minus, you know, a few hours. But what I do remember is kind of getting the news that Mel had disappeared. where I was and I have a visual of when Sylvie told you know Dennis and I that Mel was this you know that she hadn't been heard of since the previous night and you know I was kind of walking to the house coming back from somewhere it

was light out because the image I have of me standing at the doorway is a fully lit house I just remember you know Sylvie telling us that and that certainly marked me because i have a mental image there that is certainly uh burnt in there for for the rest of my life and what do you remember about dennis's reaction to hearing that from Sylvie if I'd have to give you what I remember I have him kind of you know to the to the left of me there kind of you know him pacing and kind of looking like if it didn't make sense to him or you know upset kind of you know the the general feeling that you know like holy like, holy shit, this can't be. I know if, I kind of remember him being a little bit upset as well, kind of, you know, along the lines of, you know, if I find the person who did this, you know, I'll take care of business. So that type of emotion from him.

Okay. But that's not the memory that is super clear to me. Dennis's behavior around the time Melanie vanished might reveal something of note. A confidential source told me that they witnessed and were suspicious of Dennis' heightened, almost obsessive interest in the police investigation and what Céline knew about it. Celine's mother recently revealed that she had actually seen Dennis sometime on Monday, the day after Melanie disappeared, in the basement of Celine's home, the laundry room. Dennis had come down the stairs and surprised her, then he lit a cigarette and stood there smoking. Celine says Dennis had never gone into the basement before and that smoking wasn't allowed in her house. Why Dennis would be in Celine's basement on Monday, September 30th, 1996 is unknown.

Celine was surprised when she heard about it. Her mother never spoke to police at the time, but she has now. You know, I do have that memory of him telling my mom, whoever did this was strong because look at this, Mark Bell did this to me, play fighting. And it just seemed to be a fresh, a fresh scratch. Now, where exactly was that scratch? I feel it was kind of between his elbow and his wrist type thing. That's what I feel. And it did not seem to be a scab based on my memory, right?

Because if you scratch something, you know, within a few days, it'll start to scab up and then it looks like a scab. Right. But this looked fresh. In hindsight, you're like, how could he have been play fighting that recently with her and have that type of mark? Would there have been an opportunity for him to have wrestled with mel to get that freshness of a scar in your mind in that week before she left or or before she disappeared or yeah listen great question i mean this kind of comes back to us being a little bit disconnected right like i don't remember us being

with celine or mel at that time right i didn't see Mel all that much, you know, at that point in my life. What Jason says here is important. He doesn't remember being with Celine or Mel at that time. And Sylvie told me that Jason, Dennis, and the others would have went wherever they went on Friday. Melanie visited Sylvie on Saturday, the last time she would ever see her, and then Mel disappeared early Sunday morning. Dennis and the group returned sometime Sunday, probably later on Sunday afternoon. So when did Dennis play fight with Mel? Did you ever see Dennis play fighting with Mel? So I kind of have the sense that, you know, maybe at some point there was play fighting, but something that would have been way before the disappearance.

Okay. And you, Jason, you remember Dennis saying, Melanie gave me this play fighting, gave me this scratch play fighting. I do. Jason is now the third person to tell me that Dennis claimed unprompted that he got the scratches on his arm while play fighting with Mel. And Jason is also the fourth person who has cast doubt on the play fighting story itself. A story made inconsistent when Dennis apparently accidentally reveals his scratches to Jocelyn and tells her they came from tree branches. And can you describe the scratch or scratches? Like, what did it look like exactly? Certainly something that comes from nails, right?

Something that came from nails. Okay, and was it just a single scratch, or like two or three together, or more? I'd say it was probably a few. I mean, I don't recall it just being one. If I'd have to kind of go based on memory, I think it's probably a few scratches. Like if it was like a few fingers, right?

Like if your three major fingers were to scratch, that is the memory I'm pulling up. Okay. And did you ever ask him about those scratches? Did you ask him about that? No, I didn't. No, not at all. Yeah.

And afterwards, did you ever talk to Dennis about Mel or he talked to you about Mel in any way? You know, not specifically. There's one memory and what's tricky too is, you know, the time, right? The timeline after that. I remember Dennis saying, if I go to the court and I see him, you know, I'm going to beat him up or something like that. I don't know why I remember that, but I do. Jason says that when he was younger, he spent time with his stepfather, Dennis.

But once he left home for school, he drifted apart and began seeing Dennis as a bad influence on his family. And that he wasn't good for his mom or his sister. But then, you know, him and my mom were kind of off and on a lot. And I just recall him, you know, at one point, you know, he kind of came back with my mom and then we went fishing and he was like telling me how, you know, the girl that he was dating while he wasn't with my mom,

she would turn him on because he was in the living room and then she would start playing with herself at the kitchen table. And then, you know, then he would go over. It's like, why the fuck are you telling me this you know and i think that's when i kind of started shutting down on him i kind of started feeling that he was not the type of guy that i wanted as a role model at all right now were you aware of the sexual offenses and things like that that were going on at the time no not all that much so i never got that sense from dennis

so all the stuff that's kind of coming out now in hindsight about dennis some of the things he did you know it's i'm kind of surprised if if i'd have to kind of compare dennis and andre because i knew andre really well i mean andre was kind of like my uncle almost right like you know a good looking young guy i mean i was 12 he was like 18 20 good looking motocross racer he had a quick car kind of a ladies man and for me like andre i kind of looked up to him but i always knew he had this kind of macho side to him you know in the sense that i mean he would like girls and he would like, you know, he would look at young girls. And I say that, David, because we had a neighbor, there were, you know, a couple with two young boys and a young girl. And I just remember Andre kind of thinking she was pretty, but she was like 90s, right?

So it was kind of weird. And I kind of remember that. Andre is someone I'm trying to find. He can clear up Dennis's alibi. It's all kind of making sense now. I think Dennis was potentially a little bit violent as well. I mean, you know, I remember him getting mad at me and kind of punching walls and doing stuff.

So it's kind of surreal, to be honest, to think that he was kind of part of our lives and he was this potential monster behind the scenes. So I think there was a bit of a violent impulse when things don't go well, kind of brute force type thing. It's impossible to know how much of Dennis's personality was affected by his drug use. Jason and others tell me stories of witnessing sudden violent behavior from Dennis that spanned from about six years prior to Melanie disappearing

to just before his death many years after in 2016. Is it possible that when somebody kind of crosses the ultimate line at some point in their lives that they kind of lose a little bit of that line and they become you know an inhibited person uninhibited or a different person there's nothing you can tell me now that would surprise me with everything that I'm kind of hearing. The call comes to an end without firmly answering where Jason actually was that weekend. I don't detect any deception in Jason, and he says he's willing to go to hypnosis to try regaining his memories

if it will help. I'll check on motocross venues nearby and try to find Joel, Jason's friend that Dennis said was with them. Okay. Okay. Well, thanks very much. Listen, good luck. Thanks for doing what you're doing. Take care. All right. Bye-bye, Jesse. That was many, many, many years ago. And details, I wouldn't be able to tell you where I was, who I was with. I mean, the date, nothing. Nothing is there. I've reached Andre LeVay's ex-wife, Sherry, at her place of work to see if she can remember anything from that time.

It was her car that Dennis claimed he was driving that weekend. And nothing about Dennis' whereabouts that weekend? No, good lord, I can't remember where I was. Sherry doesn't seem to remember much. Okay, I've been trying to get in touch with Andre. It's been tough. Yeah, I don't have contact with him anymore. We separated last year, and it's not an amicable relationship. Yeah, no, I understand, and that's tough on you, I don't have contact with him anymore. We separated last year, and it's not an amicable relationship. Yeah, no, I understand, and that's tough on you, I'm sure.

And I just wondered if he had ever said anything, Andre, to you about the case, or Melanie, or anything about that. No, not that I've ever recalled. I knew her as a little girl because I was part of that family. But other than that, no, it was surreal. I remember that at the time. I was like, oh, my God. Dennis himself, knowing him, could you see him being involved in any of it? No,

I couldn't. No. And were you aware of any of his charges for assault on young girls? No. I mean, Dennis has changed over the years, but the Dennis way back then no i i could never like i could never ever ever see that myself he had issues in the later years but i don't think that that like that was not the dentist of those past days i redirect the conversation back to andre okay and then andre would you see him being in any way connected to it? No. No. No. No, I don't. And I mean, I don't like the man now who he is. I mean, obviously we're not together, but back then, no, he was very giving. He still is very giving, big heart, would cry at the drop of a hat.

I don't think that, I don't, I can't see that. That's interesting. Okay. He had a big heart, very giving. Him and Dennis were a lot alike in that way. They would give the shirt off their back i found for for people to help them out so i i don't know where it's all this is coming from and i don't know like i mean that's why i said i haven't kept up to all this i mean yeah of course i completely understand one last question before you go was andre interested in motocross did he used to drive motocross bikes he was a motocross racer

yeah was he successful at it Was he pretty good at it? Yeah. And this was back in the 90s? Yeah. Oh, he's been all over for motocross races. Yeah, everywhere. I finally find Andre's contact information and call him. My approach is simple. I need to know if Dennis' alibi holds up. Was Andre with Dennis the weekend Melanie disappeared?

Your call has been forwarded to an automatic voice messaging system. Hi there, this is a message for Andre LeVay. Andre, it's David Ridgen calling from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. I'm working on a podcast that I think you can help me with, a podcast about the disappearance of Melanie Ethier in 1996 from New Liskard. I've been interviewing lots of people about the case, and I think you can help clear up some of the information I've been hearing about your brother Dennis and possibly the whereabouts across the weekend in September 1996, September 28th and 29th. It would just be a short call. I'm sure that you can help clear it all up. Interested in talking to you, Andre, as soon as possible. Thanks so much. Bye-bye.

I'll adjust and try again later. Hello? Hello, how are you doing? It's Joel speaking. Oh, Joel. Thanks so much for calling me back. I was able to track down Jason's friend Joel, and after leaving a few messages, he finally gets back to me. He was part of the story Dennis told about his whereabouts on the weekend Melanie disappeared.

He's never talked publicly about his recollections of that time before, and if Joel can remember what he did, it could change the focus very suddenly on Melanie's case. Okay, well, it's been 25 years ago, and the only thing I remember that weekend is there was a party. Joel says he was at a party that weekend, not fishing and not at motocross. And after that, I don't remember, like, I don't remember the party was Friday or Saturday, but I know there was a party. And on the Monday, it was, that's when we heard she was missing. Okay, so when you say a party, was that a party that everybody went to, like high school age students went to?

Yeah. And was it at a student's house or something? Yeah. And did you go to it? Yeah. What was it most likely, would you say? Do you think Friday night or Saturday? I'm not sure.

And do you remember who went to the party with you? Do you remember if there was someone else with you? With me? It was probably one of my best friends with me. There was a lot of people at the party. I message Jason about the party Joel mentions, hoping he may have also attended or that it might jog his memory, but he tells me he does not recall going to a party the weekend Mel went missing.

I have heard unconfirmed reports that there may have been other parties the weekend mail disappeared, aside from those associated with the multiple weddings. Anyone with information about any party on Saturday, September 28th, 1996, in New Liskard, please contact me. Back to Joel. What makes you think it was that weekend? How do you confirm to yourself that it was that weekend, that there was that party? Because that's the only thing that kind of comes up in my head is there was a party that weekend.

Okay. And do you remember anything about going to a motocross event that weekend? No. Did you go to a motocross event with either Dennis LeVay or Andre LeVay or Jason at one point? At one point. And was it something you did a lot with them or did you go like one time with those guys? I think I went twice a couple times to see Andre race. Okay. Down south. And where was that track that you went to?

It was close to Barrie, I think. Oh, close to Barrie. So not towards Mattawa and North Bay then? I don't think so. Barrie is about a two and a half hour drive from where Jason vaguely felt the group may have attended a motocross event, a significant discrepancy. Joel's specific memory of the party with no memory of attending motocross that weekend sounds credible. So it seems more likely to me that Jason's memory of a motocross event the weekend Mel disappeared could be from a different occasion.

I try to get more from Joel, hoping to narrow my search for the motocross track. No, this one was pretty big. I think it was organized. Okay, okay. There's a lot of people there, so I'm not... Yeah. And did you race yourself, or did you just go and watch Andre race, or Dennis, or... I just watched. Okay. And was it Andre that would race?

Yeah. Okay. With what Joel tells me, I've identified a possible motocross track near Barrie, Ontario. Operational since the early 1980s, weekly races were common there in September. Weekly races held on Sundays from 7am to 4pm, not on Fridays or Saturdays. It is possible that Joel, Jason, Andre and Dennis attended an event at a private or less established track with a different schedule, but it's impossible to know at this point. Did you hang around with Andre and Dennis and Jason quite a bit? Jason quite a bit, yeah. And what did you know about Andre and Dennis? Did you have any opinion on those guys? Andre was, I didn't really know Andre as much as Dennis.

Like Andre was more the motorhead, motocross sled guy. Right. And Dennis, well, Dennis brought us fishing lots when we were young. Okay, so you went fishing with Dennis at some point when you were younger. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So the party that you went to, how long do you remember staying for the whole thing, or do you remember anything, any details about it?

No. Obviously, we were all drinking, so. Right right we probably stayed up lunch while we stayed up late for sure i i don't know how i got home actually that night okay and so would the party have been in new liscard yeah did andre and dennis today used to take you guys for overnights or was it just a day trip or how did it work? For the motocross? Yeah. Yeah, it was just a day thing. Did you ever go overnight with them?

No. Never? Okay. For motocross? Yeah. No. It was just a drive down and back then. Yeah. So you would go down sort of early morning and then come back at night?

Yeah. That's interesting. Okay. So Joel thinks he went to a party and doesn't think he went to motocross. But even if he did go to a motocross event, he says on the two occasions he did so with Dennis and Andre, they never went overnight. With Saturday night not spent sleeping somewhere at a motocross event, and Jason and Sylvie and Lionel and Céline remembering Dennis and New Liskard on the Sunday that Melanie disappeared, it begs the question,

where was Dennis LeVay on Saturday night? Joel provides one of the more important, though short, interviews I've done for the Ethier case. He comes the closest to being able to say that the fishing trip motocross alibi provided by Dennis LeVay doesn't work. I don't think Joel's more anchored memory of the weekend means that Jason Chartrand is being untruthful or deliberately murky either. It means that I need even more to speak to Andre LeVay. I call Andre again and it becomes immediately

apparent that my number has been blocked. I try texting him using a different phone and within a short time I receive a response. Okay, so I've gotten a response back from Andre after sending him a message asking if he'll just give me a call and we can maybe dispel any of the rumors and Andre's response to me is go fuck yourself with your spelt Y-O-U apostrophe R-E. So I'm just going to give him a call back here and see what he has to say. If anything. Call has been forwarded to an automatic voice messaging system. Up the tone, please record your message. Hi, Andre, it's David Ridgen calling again.

I received your message of go fuck yourself. I understand that talking about this kind of stuff can be difficult for you or for others who have or may not have information. But we won't know if you have information until you actually call me. So if you can call me again, the purpose of the podcast is to dispel rumors that are out there. Also to find the truth and to help Melanie's family and friends. So I'm willing to chat with you and talk to you. So give me a call anytime.

Thanks very much. Bye. I send Andre another text saying, just call me and tell me what you know, if anything. You can help dispel any of the information I'm hearing and set the record straight. This is your chance. And its response comes quickly.

I'll tell you one more time. I don't know nothing about fuck all, so leave me the fuck alone, or I will charge you with harassment. And then I respond with a question, were you at motocross the weekend Melanie went missing? And Andre never responds. That's a simple yes or no. No F-offs required. I'll keep trying, Andre.

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turn on possibilities. Visit our website to see what you can achieve at the YMCA. This will be the day. Are you sure you parked over here? Do you see it anywhere? I think it's back this way. Come on. Hey, you're going the wrong way. Feeling distracted? You're not alone.

Whether renting, considering buying a home, or renewing a mortgage, many Canadians are finding it hard to focus with housing costs on their minds. For free tools and resources to help you manage your home finances and clear your head, visit Canada.ca slash It Pays to Know. A message from the Government of Canada. I'm going to call somebody who I believe has an experience with Dennis LaVey. Celine finds someone else who can tell me more about Dennis, someone whom I will refer to by the pseudonym Josephine, with another horrible story. I tried to move on with my life, you know, I tried to just not think about it.

He didn't seem scared at all, which scared me. Josephine was 14 at the time, a friend of Dennis's daughter, Stephanie. Josephine had met Dennis fleetingly only a few times before she moved to Sudbury, a two and a half hour drive from the New Liskard area. Dennis tracked Josephine to Sudbury and called her father, pretending that he was working in the area and that his girlfriend needed a babysitter. The father agreed to the job. Dennis then picked Josephine up and drove her through a snowstorm to a remote motel surrounded by forest. On the way, he told her there was no girlfriend and no one to babysit.

His demeanor changed. It's almost like he flipped a switch and then he came clean, told me that there was no girlfriend, there was no kids and that he was bringing me to a hotel and he didn't give me the option to go home. I thought about it after and I said, he planned this. He came all the way here, pretended he had a girlfriend here, pretended he was working here, and he wasn't. That was specifically just to lure me, 100%. We have heard this story before about Dennis, a careful plan to lure a young girl into a seemingly innocent situation, then exposing his malicious intentions.

Josephine says she stayed calm and did what she was told, despite immediately fearing for her life. When they got to the motel, Dennis already had the key and brought her into the room. She sat on the bed as close to the door as she could while Dennis was near the television snorting cocaine. He offered her some, but she refused. He told her she had a nice ass and talked about his daughter Stephanie. There were no work clothes or other items in the room. For the next two terrifying hours, Josephine says she patiently answered

all Dennis' questions while he became increasingly intoxicated. Eventually, he drove her home. She never told her family, but Dennis began circulating the rumor that they had had sex, and her family found out. Nobody ever confronted Dennis. Even though Josephine says Dennis never physically touched her, the psychological trauma of the experience altered her life. The clear similarities in the way Dennis approached Josephine and Jesse Ethier and others makes me wonder about how such a scenario might have unfolded with Melanie and Josephine had some thoughts on that too. I always had a feeling that he did something to Melanie and I said to myself what made her and me different. I thought like maybe she freaked. Maybe she let on that she was having those not good feelings,

you know, the feelings you get when you're, you know, that something's about to go down. I don't know if Dennis LaVey lured or abducted Melanie, but he had a lot of practice doing exactly that. I was so afraid of him until he died. I remember I would see people that would look like him and I would get like anxiety attacks. And until he died and I found out that he died, it was like a relief. It was like finally good riddance.

Did you ever speak to police about this incident? Never. And no police have ever come to talk to you about this? Never. Okay. Between his daughter's friends, other local girls, and Melanie's sister Jessie, Dennis' legacy is a pattern of predatory behavior. And it's a pattern that seemingly predates Dennis' accident or drug use.

Another confidential source told me that Dennis attempted to sexually assault her when she was just 13 and he was 14. This incident allegedly happened in the 1980s. Dennis leaves behind pain, trauma, and questions only he can answer. What did he mean when he told Lionel they'll never find them? Was it an admission of guilt? Are there others Dennis assaulted or attempted to assault who haven't or can't come forward? Could he have had something to do with the disappearances of other women and girls in the vicinity? Christina Kaleika disappeared from Rainbow Falls in 2007, Pamela Jane Holopainen from Timmins in 2003, and Tammy Lynn LeMondin-Gagnon from Newmarket in 1999. I could find many others,

and it's all speculation. But this is about Melanie. Melanie who wanted to become a teacher. Melanie who wanted to volunteer in Botswana, have a family. Melanie who should have made it home that September night. Hello? Hi, Céline. How are you? Good, thanks. Céline's investigative prowess in her daughter's case has shown itself again and again,

from finding people to speak to to prodding police to action, and she's also received many tips directly. One particular kind of tip consumes her more than any others, those about the possible location of Mel's remains. And within those tips, one in particular of late has been of interest. A wooden memorial reported to have been seen at the North Cobalt Cemetery, with the words Rest in Peace Melanie Ethier on it. So I received a tip at some point from a girl that had said she had walked in the Earth Cobalt Cemetery, and her and her boyfriend were just walking, and they came

upon some kind of a round wood thing that she said there was a lot of work put into it, and it said, rest in peace, Melanie Ethier. It said, Melanie Ethier, rest in peace, wood. And it was in the back of the cemetery, not in the cemetery. So as they were walking in the bush, they happened to see this thing. So when she went back home, she called 911 and told them what she had just seen. It took a while before she told me I'd have to go back. But I believe that Melanie's body is in the cemetery, and I'm really hoping that's where she is.

Police tell me that they only received this cemetery tip years later when they went to get a statement from the woman who found the marker. Police say they have no record of a 911 call. Does this mean the information is less valid? Not sure. However, there are some interesting potential links to Dennis. Dennis used to work at the graveyard and drive an ATV on the land around it. The cemetery is also a couple of blocks from a home where Dennis used to live. Céline wants to have this area searched, so I'm connecting her with Kim Cooper, a cadaver dog specialist I know and her team. The Ontario Provincial Police canine unit

did search the area around the graveyard, but didn't find anything. But there's another spot Céline is interested in too. A remote road Dennis was known to travel passes a larger sprawling property that we've heard Dennis was known to frequent because he was friends with the owner. I've asked Céline if she can get written permission from the graveyard owner and the sprawling property owner so they can be searched by dogs. Okay, so yesterday I drove to see a friend of Dennis. But as I am coordinating with Kim Cooper for the searches, Celine unexpectedly hears something and she calls me about it immediately.

When I got there, I sat down and then started to tell me that he wanted to tell me something that had been years ago, tell me about Dennis LeVay. He told me because I left a note with my name on it that there was a sign that it was time to tell. Dennis LeVay's old friend, the owner of the sprawling property, and his partner have a story to tell. And I think it's probably something I can only really get to hear myself in person. It's mid-June. I've just driven up to New Liskard. I'm going to go meet Céline. We're going to try to meet with the friend of Denis Lavey. Pretty sure this is Celine's car.

Oh, yeah, we are. How are you? Good. Good. Nice to see you. Is that a good spot? I've talked to Celine on the phone so much, and I've seen photos of her. Piercing, though understanding eyes, uses a cane, car filled with posters of Melanie and boxes of files.

This meeting feels like we know each other and there's no pretense or small talk. None of that matters. Have you been in touch with him at all? No, because he's the type that, like because he's more on guard. Like yesterday my text was see you tomorrow. Celine has been forced to become and to be a family detective. Looking into the disappearance of her own daughter as a thing under a microscope. Apart from her yet integral to her very heartbeat for over 24 years. She has my total respect.

So, I mean, the chances are he's going to say no right off the bat, but that doesn't usually deter me. Usually I try harder, depending on how hard he pushes back. It soon becomes apparent we are both thinking about the same thing, how to get the owner of the property and his partner to talk to me. Céline is also worried that this man and his partner may decide not to tell police what they know. Let me call him. Please leave your message after the tone.

It's Céline, it's here. Can you call me back? Thanks, bye. But Celine also wants their statement recorded as soon as possible, and so do I. And after a series of drive-bys, unanswered phone calls, messages and door knocks, and a meeting with a large barking dog, we finally connect, and the property owner and his partner agree to meet the next morning at 9am. Sunday morning, I'm in New Liskard, following Céline. So we're going to this fellow's place, and there's going to be him and his partner there, and Céline is afraid that if I go up with her,

it could deter him. We decide that Céline should approach and see if the owner and partner will talk to me. I wait near an abandoned steel building down the road. Okay, Céline just texted and said I could come over, so it sounds like game on. Let's see what happens here. So I get the text and drive over, but they don't want to be recorded.

Hi, how are you? I'm David. Nice to meet you. Hi. For some reason, my dog does not like you. Oh, that's too bad. What did I do? I don't know. If you brought her'm David, nice to meet you. For some reason my dog does not like you. Oh, that's too bad.

What did I do? I don't know. If you brought her out here she'd be fine. I can't describe the property or the people standing in front of me, or the dog, except to say she likes me when they bring her out. It takes about 50 minutes of banter, walking the property, throwing the stick for the dog, and talking about their plans for a cabin, but finally I move the conversation around to the reason we're here. You know about this project I'm working on, right? This podcast I'm working on. It would be great to have your statement on there. Well, you can put it on, but like I told you, I don't want a bunch of pictures of my property on it. No, that's fine.

So tell me, I guess, why don't you start the story? What happened that night? They agreed to be recorded, and in order to protect identities, we censor out the name of the property owner. Okay, Dennis came here, and he sat in in that chair and he was really drunk and stoned. And they were talking about something else and then all of a sudden he said, I killed her. Out of the blue, which nobody had mentioned anything. And I said, you killed who? And he said, Melanie. I said, what do you mean you killed her? And he said, I didn't mean to.

It went wrong. And I killed her. So I said, well, where'd you put her? Well, he didn't talk anymore. Here, the property owner gets up to go to the bathroom, leaving Dennis alone in the room with the property owner gets up to go to the bathroom, leaving Dennis alone in the room with the property owner's partner. She describes what Dennis said to her.

And he said, I'll give you the best orgasm. He said, I'll eat out your, he said, cunt. And I said, what? I said, you filthy bastard. So I got up and I went outside. And when I come back in, I said, I want him out of the house. You get out. The next day, Dennis showed up.

I was outside and he said to me, I was drunk. I didn't mean that. I said, you did so. You said it. Why would you say it? And he says, no. But if you tell anybody I said that, he said, I'll sue you. He said, and I'll get you. He said, I'll sue you. He said, and I'll get you.

He said, I'll get you. I said, get the fuck off my property. I've got a phone in my hand. I'm going to call the cops. I got real goosebumps like I do now every time I think about it. And he turned around, and when he left, he stuck his head out, and he said, I'll get you. And that was it.

So the moment I mentioned Dennis had been here, he had threatened me. And that was it. The story we just heard, that's what you recollect as well? Except when he said he killed her, I was here too. I was in the room when he said that too. What did you say to him? Why would you do that?

And he wouldn't answer me. Just sit where you are, And Dennis was over there. Right here? Yeah. Dennis had been sitting in the same chair that's next to me when he made his confession. I look at it now, worn and covered in dog hair and empty. They say that Dennis made these statements about a year or year and a half before he died. After Dennis threatened her, the property owner's partner says she never spoke to him again, and he didn't return to the property.

The man says he did speak to Dennis again, but not about Melanie. All the other things he said was things that went wrong. That's all. That's all he said. Yeah. He said it went wrong. I didn't mean to. So I said, where'd you put her? Oh, he wouldn't answer that. He changed his subject, grabbed his beer. Dennis hardly drank, so. Yeah. It was odd for him. You have one or two beers, but most of you, it's just so fucked up on the pills and the cocaine. Oh yeah. We watched him, even when he was here, he was popping pills. And he told me, you didn't need any more because you come in here staggered. He said, I'm in pain. Well, I'm pretty good. I don't know how much pain you can be in.

But yeah, if you killed somebody, yeah, you'd be in pain. Dennis's line, it went wrong, takes me back to Josephine's story about being taken from her home in Sudbury, where Josephine says she answers all Dennis' questions, and then she says maybe Mel fought back. And also to Jason's comment about Dennis saying he got violent when things went wrong. So what made you guys decide to tell Selene this story? Well, it didn't. Only because she phoned.

Because Dennis was dead. I ask the owner if Dennis ever said he murdered any other girls. He says no, just Melanie. Just this time. Dennis talked to you about his travels, what he did on his travels. He was working in Chile.

I enjoyed it over there because you could pick up two young girls there, have any kind of sex you wanted with them and from next to nothing. And do whatever the hell he wanted. Because he was like a sex maniac, whatever you want to call it. I know that for a fact, because more than one conversation. Did he ever make comments about black girls?

No, he liked all different girls. That's sort of why he liked Chili. He was a big guy. He wasn't a fighter, but he was abusive to women. The owner's partner tells me another story of a woman she knew who says Dennis tied her to a bed and molested her. Céline is trying to find that woman. I wonder more now about the property we are on and whether Dennis had access to it. A land title document that I have obtained indicates that the owner purchased this property in early May of 1996,

about five months before Mel went missing. Did you know at the time? Were either of you aware of his charges with other young girls, like his convictions? No, if I did, he would never have been allowed in. We had talked about that a bit, but he would never get into it, like what the charges were. No, he wouldn't talk about it. Did he tell you he went to jail? Oh yeah, I know he went to jail, but he wouldn't tell me why. Okay.

Right? I think their story about Dennis' statement is credible. The fact that both of them heard Dennis say what he said makes it harder to be some kind of mis-memory or even fabrication. Neither had listened to the podcast or seemed motivated by any outside force other than Cé Celine knocking on their door to get permission for cadaver dogs. Would they have held on to the story if she hadn't? I'm glad they told us both what they witnessed. Yes thanks for everything and eggs? I'm handed a plastic bag with two dozen fresh eggs, and we make our way off the property, almost in a daze.

I meet Céline at the old steel building for a debrief. We got some eggs. That was good. I think so. Could have gotten bad. That was really good. I think so. Could have gotten bad. That was really good. I think so. Yeah.

Although it can't be easy, right? It's not like saying somebody had scratch. It's like saying, okay, this guy told me he killed Mo, which is very different than any statement I got from people before, right? But he had told me also he would talk to the police. I'm sure he'll talk to the police. I hope he does. Like, they seem to care.

And that's what you focus on. Céline has long suspected Dennis in the murder of her daughter Melanie. And what we have heard is cold comfort vindication of that. I don't think police ever heard a statement like this, certainly not when Dennis was alive. Celine says police will be trying to talk to the property owner and his partner and getting an official statement from them. And Kim Cooper's cadaver dogs are scheduled to come up to have a look around very soon. Okay that's great thanks very much. Yes we'll see you again. Thank you. Take care.

On the way home from New Liskard, I make a final stop. Another house. Turn left now. I was coming up on Andre's place here, in a smaller Ontario community. Andre's brother Dennis went on and on about the scratches Melanie made on his arm. He talked about his murderous dreams to his daughter Stephanie, and we just learned that he admitted to killing Melanie Ethier to his friends.

But Dennis also said he'd been away that whole weekend with Jason, Joel, and his brother, Andre. If Dennis had nothing to do with Melanie's disappearance, the only person left to support his alibi is Andre. And I want him to tell me now, in person, what he might know, if anything. Andre has made it pretty clear that he doesn't want to speak to me on the phone or text, but I think I'll just drive by Andre's place as I drive to Ontario here and see if there's an opportunity I can create here by just showing up and not necessarily going up to the door, knocking on it, but just kind of by appearing.

You sometimes hope for a certain luck to happen and create the situation so the luck comes to you and Andre comes out and is delighted to talk to me and is motivated somehow to speak to me. I see where the place is. No, I don't see a vehicle. You have arrived at your waypoint on the right. Let's park right here. Yeah, I see it. There's nobody here. There's right here. Yeah, I see it. There's nobody here.

There's nobody here, but this is a perfect place to sit and wait for somebody to come out. I see the sitting area there, and I can see the apartment where he would be. The exit is right at the back of the house. Basically, it would walk right toward me if I was sitting here. I wait for a while and nothing moves. Andre may know nothing, but we don't know what he doesn't know. Céline has long said it doesn't matter to her if there is courtroom justice.

She just wants to know where Mel is. I'll keep calling and maybe even driving up and parking at people's places if it will help. And I think it will. Well, maybe next time, Andre. Maybe next time. This is the fifth and final regularly planned episode for Melanie's case, for now. I'll be back if significant new

information is found, including if results of any cadaver dog searches uncover anything, or if someone new comes forward. If you have any credible information about the weekend Melanie disappeared, suspicious vehicles, seeing Dennis at a bar in Notre Dame du Nord, two men in a car on the bridge or a party in New Liskerd, please reach out. For Melanie, for Celine, for Jesse and produced by me, David Ridgen. The series is also produced by Hadil Abdel-Nabi. Our senior producer and sound design lead is Cecil Fernandez. Emily Canal is our digital producer, and our story editor is Chris Oak.

Transcriptions by Varad Mehta, Natalia Ferguson, Yasmeen Gandham, and Frankie Fiorini. Evan Agard is our video producer. Ben Shannon designed our artwork. Our cross-promo producer is Amanda Cox. Special thanks to the CBC Reference Library.

The executive producer of CBC Podcasts is Arif Noorani. Our senior director is Leslie Merklinger. If you're looking for more investigations, check out Someone Knows Something. Each season I investigate a different unsolved murder, from a mysterious bomb hidden in a flashlight to two teenagers killed by the KKK. Find Someone Knows Something on the CBC Listen app or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm David Ridgen.

We'll be back soon with a new case and the next call. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.