Something Was Wrong - S16 Ep9: Taking Up Space

Episode Date: June 28, 2023

*Content Warning: police brutality, murder, racism, bigotry, death, interpersonal violence, alcohol and substance use disorder, body-image abuse, emotional abuse, fatphobia, disordered eating, anorexia, childhood abuse, gun violence, suicidal ideation.  Free and confidential resources + Safety Tips: somethingwaswrong.com/resources  Artwork by the amazing Sara Stewart: @GreaterThanOkay - Instagram.com/greaterthanokay

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Amazing. I just finished paying off all my debt with the help of the Credit Counseling Society. Whoa, seriously? I could really use their help. It was easy. I called and spoke with, the credit counselor right away. They asked me about my debt, salary, and regular expenses,

gave me a few options, and help me along the way. You had a ton of debt. And you're saying credit counseling society helped with all of it? Yep. And now I can sleep better at night. When debt's got you, you've got us. Give credit counseling society a call today. Visit no more debts.org. Something was wrong is intended for mature audiences as it discusses topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence. Content, warnings for each episode and confidential and free resources for survivors can be found in the episode notes. Some survivor names have been changed for anonymity purposes. pseudonyms are given to minors in these stories for their privacy and protection. Testimony shared by guests on this

show is their own and does not necessarily reflect the views of myself, broken cycle media, or Wondery. The podcast or any linked materials should not be construed as medical advice, nor is the information a substitute for professional expertise or treatment. All persons are considered innocent and less proven guilty in a court of law. Thank you so much for listening. You think you know me, you don't know me well. My name is Morgan Shanahan, and I've been a friend of Tiffany's for about 15 years. Is that true? Is that possible?

I am a mom. I have a daughter at the same age as Tiffany's son Jude. So when we met, we were actually both in our first trimester of pregnancy, the first pregnancy for both of us, my only pregnancy. I'm a writer and a screenwriter and a content creator. I have worked online since roughly the same time I met Tiffany. I ran my own website for about six years that focused on parenting and mental health. And then I moved on to BuzzFeed and it was one of the co-founding editors of the parenting vertical there. I also had the really cool experience of being a... able to start creating the video content around parenting at BuzzFeed.

Tiffany has always been someone who sees creativity. When you meet someone who has that kind of gift, it's just impossible to hide. I met her in the context of an internet message board, which is crazy to think about. That was such a scary thing to do, to actually connect with a person who I had not met in real life. But long before, we were just a thing

ever collaborated. I knew that Tiffany was a person who I would one day collaborate with. Tiffany and I are both a little bit of like square pegs and round holes. The way I'll put it is that I think myself also being a little bit more on the edge of punk rock, Tiffany 100% immediately was a person that I would connect with. I was 27 years old. I lived in Los Angeles. In Los Angeles, that's fairly young to have a kid. Tiffany at the time I think was 23. And I just remember thinking, that pregnancy was so terrifying for me. I was so afraid of what it would mean for me, who I was going to be after I had a kid.

And what that would do, what kind of impact that might have on my ambition, my career aspirations, all of these things that were a really, really big piece of my identity. And there was Tiffany just in love with the idea that this was coming at her and just so full of joy and excited. to meet Jude, despite turmoil in her life,

she had no fear of what was coming, this new sort of adventure and this new step into adulthood. As I've gotten to know her, I've come to understand exactly why that was an exciting moment for her and a fresh start for her. It also gave me a lot of emotional inspiration to have that kind of confidence that I also would be able to achieve everything I wanted to achieve

and still be a great mom. All of that was before we ever worked together. I remember very clearly when Bobby was killed. Getting a message from Tiffany that that had happened, I remember it pretty well. It started with just the information that Bobby had died, and I knew that that all by itself was devastating. It was shocking, and there was a lot of confusion, and she was obviously in a lot of pain. It was painful as her friend to even fathom that this was going on. she had these incredible mama bear instincts that she had developed from being such a devoted

big sister and the catalyst for all that had been taken from her in such a cruel way. It had a huge impact on me to watch her go through that. She started to talk about Bobby. She started crying and she started to share a lot of the things that had happened that she had learned over the last few months, I felt very honored because she really allowed me to sit with her and listen to her, but she entrusted me with these really very big, very life-altering, very personal things that she was going through, how she was feeling. The other thing that strikes me about that time is that Tiffany had empathy for the witness, who, of course, was also the caller. She had said to me, can you imagine you call for help and then this happens and you see this happen? The fact that

she could think about what that person was going through was just incredible to me. We talked about all of the different ways that it was affecting her and everyone around her and her family and the gaping hole that it had left. And we talked about Bobby, who he was. Some of the things that people have gotten to hear about him from her, that he was so much more than the horrible way that he died. And that was a really huge turning point in our friendship that just solidified something that has never gone away. Tiffany is the kind of friend for me now where sometimes we talk all the time, sometimes we can go months without talking. It doesn't matter. The relationship is always there. It's always supportive. And I'm always fucking laughing. It was clear to me early on that Tiffany

had a tough relationship with her mom. Over the years, I think it has ebbed and flowed. There have been better times and there have been worse times. Tiffany has been very gracious many times about wanting her mom to be able to be part of certain things in her life. After Bobby's murder, she definitely tried to let her mom back in. They really gave it a try. I remember her talking about how Liz was coping as that shifted in the context of Bobby's death that shifted into Liz looking to potentially gain from that and how that impacted Tiffany. I've definitely watched her struggle with how much she can allow.

Liz into her life. I believe it was at Ozzie's Baby Shower. Important family event where after Bobby's murder, everyone was together as a family, and Liz just lost her shit. And it was, it was Tiffany's day, man. Another moment that I really saw just like some of the damage that Liz was capable of doing was,

once Bobby's case started to become a civil case, Tiffany started to struggle a lot with, or was visibly struggling with the overarching feeling that Liz saw Bobby's death, of course, as a mother, I'm sure that Liz was going through all kinds of things that I did not see. But there was a real sense that Liz was at a certain point looking to use Bobby's death for personal gain.

That is just antithetical to everything that Tiffany stands for. That was a really hard thing to witness as a friend, but also just to see the professional wherewithal that Tiffany was able to maintain while also dealing with some of the most traumatic family dynamics that most of us never experienced. It's just so clear that she has somehow managed to put Liz in a box in the way that she has moved into a place

where she knows that she is not the damaged one, that her mother is the damaged one, that there was nothing wrong with her, there was something wrong with Liz. and I think that revelation for her has helped so many people. After the baby shower incident, very shortly after that, Ozzie arrived. I threw up all day, every day the entire time I was pregnant with him. The second he came out, the vomiting stopped, so that was fantastic.

Jude was six, Ruby was about three and a half. So preschool, it was just exhausting. Yeah, it was just exhausting. I'm glad I did it when I was young, physically speaking. Now I go up the stairs and it's like snap, razzle, dazzle, crackle, and pop. Like I can't imagine having the surgeries now and stuff. But maybe also my body wouldn't be so beat up if I hadn't had so many babies in my 20s so close together. But no regrets, five stars.

Ozzy came. It was so joyous. We had way better health insurance. We were in a better place in life. It was still hard to be sure. And we were still very much living on a budget and struggling. but we were so, so thankful. I also got my tubes died, which was fantastic.

Highly recommend. I knew I would be having a C-section anyways. It's wild as fuck because I already had three kids. They're literally telling me after I had Ruby don't have any more kids because you could die. Just because of all the health complications that I had, I had preeclampsia. When I found out I was pregnant with Ozzy, we were ecstatic and we were super excited, but it was definitely no questions asked tubes tied or needed some sort of birth control plan for future. because I was tapped out and financially, it's so expensive to raise children, especially in California.

They, like, made me take a hold class and they, like, make you read all these horrible scenarios. Like, what if this happens? Will you still be happy with this decision? What if this happens? I'm like, no fucking planet men to get a vasectomy do not have to do any of that. It was just very ridiculous. And then during the delivery, the doctor who was delivering Ozzy, asked me so many times, are you sure? Are you sure? And I'm like on fucking. morphine, cut open like a frog. They're taking Ozzy out. Or Ozzy's already out at this point. I'm pretty sure. And he's like, are you sure? Trying to make it as emotionally difficult as possible. And I was just like, stop asking me. I'm sure. We already had outgrown our space that we were in because of how high

rent costs are and the small space we had. But it was some of the happiest times of our lives, to be clear. We made the best of it. And the kids have so many fond memories. And they got to go to an incredible neighborhood school and we didn't live in the nicest neighborhood, but there was less gunshots and it was a bit more peaceful. We were carving our own path at this point by the time Ozzy arrived and we were just in a different place. Michael and I had both matured as young adults. It was definitely a different environment that we brought him into versus where we were at when we had Jude. So Ozzy arrives and my website is continuing to grow. Instagram and Pinterest are exploding at this point and all of this content that I've been banking for years is now

exploding on Pinterest. I wasn't making a ton of money, but the numbers were growing and that led to all these other opportunities. The nature of the work, it's very like freelance writing. You know, sometimes you get, oh, cool, I got booked this job. Sometimes you go three months and you don't book a job. So it's very up and down and it's certainly not consistent income that I could count on in any way. When income would happen, it would be like, fantastic. But the numbers continue to do well. the website continued to grow. I started to get outside opportunities. Morgan, who I met actually through online mom pregnancy boards.

Shout out to the bump.com. If you know, you know. And we actually randomly met on this message board. It's kind of funny because I honestly wasn't very active on this message board. Somehow her and I connected. She was a blogger and she's from California. She's the lady to my tramp and fucking hilarious. Yes, Amy knows her as well.

We've all been friends for quite some time. She's fantastic. And so she was working at BuzzFeed. A lot of people will recognize her. She was the hot mess mom on BuzzFeed. She did a ton of video parenting content for them for years. And she started to work on more video content. And she was working on some body positivity styling videos.

And she knew about my writing and the work that I did and my personal journey. We kind of were always like, Tiffany, you need to have a blog. The things that come out of your mouth, man, come on. Like, she's so smart. She's all the reasons that something was wrong is the huge success that it is. She had a children's fashion blog. She was also, besides being a talented makeup artist, it was very clear that she also was an incredible stylist. She had an ability to put together an outfit, a unique ability.

The outfits were also unique, but the ability itself was unique. Watching her start to flourish in this new way where she was putting her work out there and getting positive feedback. We had the opportunity to, like, go to a few professional events together. We were still sort of operating in parallel at that point. In 2016, I want to say, I had been at BuzzFeed for a couple years already. We were starting to do parenting video content. I was putting together a video where the stylist, I was using someone in-house, someone who was local, someone in Los Angeles. And they bailed on me.

Tiffany was planning a trip down for a professional event that we were going to attend together. and it just clicked. I was like, oh my God, Tiffany's coming here. If she just came a couple days early, she could do this. I could hire her for this. I called her and she's Tiffany and she was like, hire me. I don't care. You need help. I'm coming. But she was also very excited to be able to come down and dig into some of this content that we were making, which was a lot of the things that we as mothers experience around body image. As you're getting older, as things are changing, as your sense of self is changing, as you're styled. develops from being early 20 something to a late 20 something to an early 30 something. She was just brilliant. She drove down. I think she drove overnight. She got to my house like 5 o'clock in the morning or something. I don't even know if she went to sleep.

She put herself together, looked amazing. We got on set and she was the star. Not only did she know how to put the people in the video at ease, but she was also able to anchor the video. She got up there. She was styling everyone. was telling everyone exactly what she was doing. In the very short time she had to prepare, she was able to get in touch with the sponsor

and figure out what clothes she could incorporate from the line that we were promoting. To see her leap into action and just instinctively know what to do was not surprising to me, but I was yet again in awe of her. I think we shot two videos that day, back to back, and then we went straight down to Laguna Beach from Los Angeles that night for the event that we were going down to. But after that, it was like, everybody wanted a piece of her. All of the other shows, all of the other producers. I mean, I definitely continued to have her in videos,

but I was like, this is my secret weapon, man. Am I really going to have to share her? But of course, I had to share her. I could not not share that brilliant woman. It was really awesome to see the reaction that people had. The videos were really impactful with the audience. To collaborate on that with her, something that I was passionate about

and wanting to start more conversations around and have someone as self-possessed as Tiffany who has been through what Tiffany has been through, who has the sense of self to counsel other women who might be struggling with their body image. I won the freaking lottery. I pulled her in and then it was like hard to book her after that. Everybody wanted to have her on their productions.

The first video that I did with her, I couldn't freaking believe it. And this is peak buzzfeed days. I didn't make a ton of money on the videos, but obviously the exposure, it was one of those rare circumstances where when they say we can offer you exposure, it was true. So I remember preparing all the looks and being so nervous. It's also important to note that after Ozzy was born and after losing Bobby and after the situation with Liz, I was typically with my disordered eating when there's these big heavy moments or big shifts. Sometimes that triggers for me.

a year plus disordered eating after having three kids and the trauma. I had joined a gym. I also believe in physical exercise and eating well and how it benefits your mental health. And so I wanted to join a gym to help with my anxiety. Also, they had classes for kids and stuff like that. Then I got involved, unfortunately, in a weight loss contest. And it just led to a lot of problematic behavior. because I had lost so much weight, I was feeling more comfortable appearing on video, which is ironic, considering I'm a body positive stylist and going to do these videos. It's hard to describe how you can be both body positive and struggle with disordered eating. But similar to my depression, even though I know my depression is a liar, I still struggle with it. And even though I know that I have so much to be thankful for and so much joy and I have all this, it doesn't change the fact that I have a chemical imbalance. or I have trauma that can trigger certain feelings. I'm a human being. And honestly, a lot of my disordered eating for me has to do with physically how uncomfortable I feel eating, especially if it's in front of other people and avoiding it, and then not taking proper care of myself. So during this time,

I think I was more body positive light than sincerely body positive, but where things were in terms of the public conversation, I felt confident that I could do this. And I think it's really, really cool that I went from having my mom treat me the way that she did in dressing rooms, how she kept me from dressing myself and making my own choices and tried to just honestly beat me down so much to then going on studying fashion and becoming more body positive and accepting who I was. Something that I talk about in my second book is I have disordered eating, but I also am super confident in my body. It's more so like how the outside world has treated me and made me feel like

I shouldn't that has been the struggle. It's not because I hate myself and I think I'm so gross. It's just that it's easier to exist in this world and people are nicer to me when I'm thinner. Strangers, anybody, people are kinder to me when I'm thinner. I'm almost six feet tall. I am built like an hourglass. I have very curvy frame even when I am at my lowest weights. I am just a larger framed person. So I think where the disordered eating and stuff really gets stirred up and where a lot of the anxiety comes from is just the feeling of taking up space and the way that I was always made to feel bad for taking up space. And so a lot of my healing is accepting who I am, that I'm beautiful, who I am as an entire person, and overcoming all of the narratives that I had to

the place where now I'm on BuzzFeed, helping other women in their journey and helping them feel better about themselves. Now I'm in dressing rooms helping other people heal and helping heal myself in the process. It's really incredible and ironic when you look at the full picture and the full journey. My first video that I did with BuzzFeed was focused on this idea where we covered all the sizes on the clothing and we just styled the people's bodies based on fit and what they needed from the clothing and how they wanted to feel. So it's a lesson in like we get so hung up in the sizing of things and stuff versus the clothes. We're always trying to shove ourselves into the clothes instead of looking at clothes for what they are. They're just objects and they're all made differently and some are going to

work for some and some are going to not work for others. But because we've been so brainwashed and because so many people are profiting off of the insecurity that they're trying to instill in us every day. It's a billion, billion, billion dollars these people are out here making off of our insecurity. They want to keep us insecure, not just women, but specifically a lot of it is geared towards women. And specifically during times of year when they know people are feeling more insecure, aka after the holidays, or AKA right now when we're entering bathing suit season, now I'm able to be a part of the solution. When I was losing weight and I was doing the gym, sharing all that stuff, unfortunately, I contributed to fat phobia because of my own internalized

journey that I had. And I was presenting it like I'm doing this healthy thing, but the way that I spoke about myself and the way I treated myself was still not okay. And it was still coming from a place of shame because I was trying to gain the validation from other people and also to lessen the pain, which is existing in a bigger body in society and the way that people. treat you in the way that that impacts your life and the way that that impacts a lot of things. Being able to be part of these BuzzFeed videos, also then getting clients from those opportunities and getting to work with people who have body dysmorphia or are overcoming eating disorders themselves, getting to spend time in their closets with them, making them feel better, making them

feel good. There was so much healing that came from that with me. Getting dressed and going out and anybody who knows me, it's like my favorite thing to do in the world. I'm like, give me an excuse to get dressed up. Once I get there, I'm good to go probably after like five minutes, but I love to get dressed up. I love fashion so much because people are art and information, and that's why I love meeting new people. It's like visiting a museum of a human being to me. I want to know everything about them. I want to know what they're wearing, where they've been. I'm such a naturally curious person. And I love fashion as self-expression. I think because of the way that I was deprived of that self-expression when I was younger, it made me hungrier for it.

So it was this huge moment to be on this other side and also be free of Liz and free of Bob during these years completely. And getting to just focus on my family and myself and that felt so, so good and empowering. Throughout these years and every day of my life, I'm still unlearning behavior and I'm still a work in progress. But to me, being body positive is being intentional with the type of relationship that you want to have with your body.

And the intention that I have with my body is that I want to have a positive one. I want to focus on the ways that my body serves me and has brought me here and has allowed me to do all of the things that I've wanted to do, trying to focus on being kind to it and grateful for it. And also, your body changes over the years. And I've had some health stuff that happened. pieces that have helped me also understand myself more and why certain challenges I maybe was more predisposed to. It was so cool. And all three videos that I ended up doing with Morgan and through

BuzzFeed did really well. It really accelerated my career. Again, it wasn't necessarily financially yet, but exposure-wise. Eventually, I was able to leverage that into a styling career for a fashion company. I worked there for a few years and then applied for this dream job. Essentially, the job had three parts. One was styling celebrity clients. Two, was overseeing a large remote team of stylists who wrote all of the comms for the website and blog giving styling advice. And then the other piece was representing the company in public spaces like video, etc. It wasn't a ton of money, even though the job was such a dream because it's a startup company, but it was huge. I couldn't believe I got the job. I had to interview with like 27 people and their

mothers and their grandfathers. Then I finally got the job and I was able to give Michael the opportunity for the first time to take a fucking break. And he was able to give notice at the kitchen. We kind of swapped in this moment. To be sure, we needed two incomes, but during this transition phase and because we always are most concerned with our decisions impacting the children, we wanted to make sure that because Ozzy was so young, he would have a full-time parent that he's familiar with with him through the transition. We didn't want to keep both jobs and then have to hire a nanny or somebody else to come into the situation. So that was a personal choice we made. It also gave Michael the opportunity to like think about what he wanted to do with his life. And I don't think working 80 hours a week on his feet, sweating his balls off. was the thing that he wanted to do anymore for not very much money. And it's a really hard job. He worked his ass off for a long time. So the other joy from getting this job was to be able to be like,

fucking take a nap, buddy. Put your feet up. He was actually able to spend time with his kids in a much greater way than he was before because he always had to be at work. We'd be lucky if he got one day off a week sometimes. I was really thankful to be able to like give him that as well. Of course it would mean me being away from the kids more, but I knew we could navigate it and we could figure it out. This is when I started commuting a ton from Sacramento to the Bay Area. And this is pre-COVID, so everybody was still living in the Bay Area. But the traffic was horrible. And so I would spend hours and hours in the car and the ferry and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

And I started listening heavily to podcasts. As I mentioned before, there was always this internal feeling of looking for purpose. and I thought at this time that perhaps this was the purpose and really driven by not only the love of fashion and wanting to see myself succeed and be able to provide for my children and not be worried about whether or not we were going to be able to feed them, but also the satisfaction that I loved getting from styling

and working with clients and helping people. While I loved the job, it was extremely difficult for a plethora of reasons. The commuting, the amount of travel that I needed to do, the amount of hours that I was working versus the amount of pay that I was getting, it didn't make any sense anymore. That started becoming clear. There was this one moment and I honestly had forgotten about it until two days ago when I was thinking about putting my notes together for this episode. And I was like, oh my God, it's another one of those lightning bolt aha moments now that

I think subconsciously influenced the work and the idea for the show, but I didn't even realize it until now. So at this company I was working for was very much startup, tech, fashion company in the Bay Area. Think Silicon Valley, but sorority addition. There was a lot of fantastic people I've met some of my best friends through this experience. There was a lot of joy and happiness, but there was also a lot of parts that I didn't like. It's funny because we used to do these business meetings, but they're like, let's start with a five-minute meditative session led by so-and-so today. Oh, and there's Cambuchon. On tap everyone. No, you can't make a livable wage, but we have a bounce house for the Christmas party. This was peak boomerang. I will never forget that either. The boomerang function on Instagram because we did

so many goddamn boomerangs. We had these like little teams and each team was going to like plan these different team building exercises. The team that had come up with the topic that we were supposed to discuss in this meeting was what keeps you up at night. They were like all about be your authentic self, be your best self. And something that was totally. to me about this team that I was entering was they need somebody to like bring the team together. That's who I am as a person regardless. Like if I'm standing outside and there's two moms talking to each other and there's another mom who's standing off to the side, I'm going to bring that other mom standing off to the side into the conversation. So we're in this meeting. What keeps you up

at night? Some people are like dancing around things and like this is a really heavy question, right? And me being like way too honest. I was told I was too authentic. They're like, we mean it in the normal people way Tiffany, not in the Tiffany Reese way. I've fought really hard to live in my reality and I plan to stay here in the truth as much as fucking possible. So we're going through this. There's some vulnerability happening. So in this meeting, I decide to share that I don't have a relationship with my parents and the reason for that is that my parents were very abusive to me growing up. Sometimes it's hard for me when I'm in high pressure situations to shake off negative thinking. I'm sharing this and I like look up and there's multiple people crying and then

the people who shared after me started sharing way more intimate stuff and then it kept going. Afterwards, multiple people came and spoke to me in private and were like, thank you so much for sharing that. I experienced this. And then the manager was like, what you just did brought our entire group together, that moment of vulnerability and you being brave and opening up. Now when I reflect on that, I didn't even realize it until these last few days. how much that influenced subconsciously where I am now, seeing that payoff of when you share, it helps other people,

and it makes other people less scared to share and live in their truth. And you can share however feels comfortable for you. It can be one-on-one. You can write in a journal. I started writing about my experiences for a long time before I was able to speak about them a lot. Even though the job was really, really stressful and difficult and the hours were long and the commutes were long and stuff.

I'm so thankful for the friendships I gained. I took a lot from the experience. But I started to recognize that I wanted to do something else, having that deep desire for purpose and realizing that wasn't it. If you're serious about growing this new year, what you put into your mind actually matters. And as someone who lives and breeds careers and self-development, even I get overwhelmed trying to do it all.

Between work, life, and trying to better yourself, self-care can start to feel like just another thing on the to-do list. But investing in yourself doesn't have to be complicated. And with Audible, it isn't. It's time to take care of you. And who better to help than the top voices in well-being all in one place? With Audible's Well-Being collection, you can level up your career, finances, relationships, sleep, parenting, or mindset. Whether you want motivation, clarity, or practical advice, there is something there to support you every step of the way. I listen while I commute, clean, work, or just when I need a little bit of downtime.

You'll hear from best-selling authors Brene Brown and Jay Shetty, Chef Jamie Oliver, finance expert Rachel Rogers, and popular parenting guides like Raising Good Humans. Kickstart your well-being journey with your first audiobook free when you sign up for a 30-day trial at outtable.com. membership is 1495 a month after 30 days. Cancel any time. There's more to imagine when you listen. Also, I missed my kids and I was really sick of commuting. I was able to transition to a full-time role working remote for less money, but thankfully by this time, Michael had gotten a job working with the homeless community. He ended up finding his purpose in life through being able to just explore a different path. So we were able to swing it. We both were working at,

And now Ozzy was a bit older and all of the kids were almost all in school. And because I was working remote, I was able to take care of him and work at the same time. The grieving that happens when you got your degree in something and you've been chasing this one thing. And then you maybe realize that, like, it's not actually your truest passion. And maybe there's something else that you want to do that speaks to you more. As I've shared throughout these episodes, I was the weird kid that watched documentaries. MySpace profile just used to be a list of, like, 200 documentaries that were my favorite. What I love about documentaries is that it's people sharing their experiences.

I love people and I love learning about people and sitting with people. I love a slope, and I want to know everything about everyone and everything that occurred. That's just my curious personality. I loved podcasts and that was like a joke at my old job as people would always talk to me about podcasts and a few people had suggested, you need to start your own podcast. I still had a following that I had somewhat retained from Instagram and the website and stuff. So I'm working, Michael's working, and I had some other things that happened in my personal life that I'm not going to get into that don't apply to my family. And I found myself in one of the darkest depressions that I've ever had.

It was really scary and Michael was concerned for my mental health. I felt like I needed something to pull myself out of it and then... Welcome, everyone, to I worry for something that was wrong. on live here in Sacramento. Thank you. I'm going to be Lisa Doyle. I'll be your host tonight. So, let's just

kick it off. How did the podcast come to be? Let's talk about that. So the podcast came to be through you and you're like, well, my friend was supposed to be getting married. I don't know the story, but like I know that XYZ happened. Yes. This was at a dive party,

Sacramento, I believe. Yeah. Yes. It was for our friend's birthday party. I had smoked probably like two joints at this point. You were telling me the story and I was just like, oh my God. And you didn't know all the details, but I was just like, what is happening? And I remember the one thing that I remember for sure was the cellulite text. You were like, all I know is this fucking guy created this fake person and somehow brought up her cellulite. And that's all I needed to hear. I was like, podcast right now. Fucking get it together. Like I need to know this story. I'm a really curious person. And I was just looked at you and I was like,

that would be such a good podcast. And you were like, yeah. And I was like, yeah. And I remember we were like standing in a group of people and like they were like, oh God, they're talking about podcasts again. Like, you know, just like walking away. So Sarah, what were your initial thoughts when you were approached about this? So you texted me and I remember the wording was so thoughtful and so diplomatic as you always are.

But I knew the source too. So my first thought was, ooh, like, a podcast and I thought, oh, wait, this is my, like, it's about my worst nightmare. And I kind of, like, paused for a second and thought about it. But knowing you, that was what I think caused me to react positively, because I knew how delicately you approached it and that you valued me as a friend and you wouldn't suggest something that was, you know. And it was really soon after. Yeah, it was within, like, two or three months. It was the same summer. Yeah, you, no, you, I think you texted me in, like, June. So the wedding was called off in May. I did. I think it was really.

either June or July. Communed at the Reese's home. Yes. So we set it up and then you came over. We met. We turned on a way shittier microphone than that in my kitchen. And that was pretty much the majority of the audio from the first season. And then obviously as more things came out over as episodes started releasing, there was more content to record.

And that was about a five hour sitting with you. Six? Six. Yeah. I know that I bought a lot of snacks from Trader Joe's and no one ate the snacks. And I don't know why I bought so many crunchy things next to my phone. And I do remember the first couple hours, we were being really polite and like being very aware of our reactions and stuff. And by the end, I swear to God, I was like up pacing the room.

Because I had heard all the details. I was like, are you freaking kidding me? Yeah. I didn't even think about what it would be like for you as a longtime friend because we've known each other for what over 10 years-ish around there to hear the story. to hear the story. I'm just, I like switch into storytelling mode and I'm not thinking about it. And by the end, we're flipping tables

and throwing snacks and screaming. Yeah, yelling. Yeah. It's strange in life how all these experience happened that felt like these little breadcrumbs leading me down this path. When I reflect now, it's like all of those pieces perfectly aligned and made sense for me

to make something was wrong. And that's really mind-blowing. Because I'm not one of those people who's like, oh, we have to make time. toxic positivity and purpose and tie everything up in a bow and like, no, some shit just sucks and it's fucked up and that's it. That's all you can say about it. But honestly, when I reflect and think about the internal feeling that I had once I entered the workforce and even before, just as a human being who had gone through all of this trauma and pain, I knew in my soul that I was supposed to like do something with this. I didn't know what it was, but I knew that I needed and why. wanted to make purpose and human connection out of my experiences. I had this deep yearning for that. And once the idea for the show came into my brain, it was like one of those record scratch,

everything in the movie like, that's why I often use a lightning bolt for the logo for Broken Cycle to represent that. Because that's what it felt like. It felt like this lightning bolt in my brain, this is it. and when I said it to Alyssa, she was like, yes, it was like she knew it. And then when I told it to Michael, like, what if this is my purpose? He was like, yes, what if it is, you know? And as I started talking to more people about it, they're like, yes, Tiffany, this is perfect for you.

You have to do this. You have to do it. So then really, season one, there was no guarantee that anybody was even going to listen to it, right? She started something was wrong from nothing. She talked to someone whose story moved her, and she decided to go bigger. I knew she had the capacity to produce something, but when I heard the first episode, it just blew me away. I remember crying because I just thought like, this is everything I've seen her do come together. And she dealt with so much with moves and the loss of important people in her life, all of the sort of unfair tragedies that continue to happen, no matter what else you are trying to accomplish in your life, she pushed through all of the sort of unfair tragedies that continue to happen, no matter what else you are trying to accomplish in your life. She pushed through all of that and she created this thing and she stayed consistent with it, which is so hard to do when you're going through stuff. Watching her develop as a storyteller has been incredible. Her instincts of what people need to learn and hear and understand about the world to know that they're not alone.

And her ability to tell a really fucking good story just blew me away. And I remember like gushing so hard like, this is so incredible. this is not something that I didn't believe you could do. But holy shit, it just never even occurred to me that you could blend your skills in this way, you know, that you could bring it all together into this one thing. You found this one thing that made so much sense for you, that drew on the empathy that you have been. And find a way to blend that with the personality and the joy and the humor that comes so naturally to her.

It is a gift. It really is. So my experience of Tiffany has just been like unwrap. one gift after the next. And watching her find new ways to conquer the world. And every time she does it, I put my bullshit aside and look at her and think, there is nothing that you cannot conquer. I knew that I wanted to prove it to myself. I knew that it would mean something to Sarah and her family and would give her the ability to point people in a direction and say, if you want to know about this, press play, because she was also sick of talking about it. And that's one thing she talked about on the

season. And it was all of these moments and all of these pieces as fucked up and horrible as they are. Somehow they all came together and made this incredible tapestry, this incredible puzzle that clicked into place. And everything changed. It was way bigger than we expected though. We didn't expect anything that crazy. No. We expected, okay, maybe the guy's cheated. Maybe the guy is married. Maybe, you know, there's a child somewhere like something devastating, but not this sick. You think you know me, you don't know me well at all. Some shit has come out of the frickin woodwork for you to call off a wedding days before. You think you know me, you don't know me well at all.

My chest goes cold like this just tight. I can't breathe. No, please God, no. You can't be implying what I think you're implying. There were no reflex. It didn't get automatically easy. Let's be sure there was still years and years of heartbreak and stress and anxiety and depression to come. Even after the podcast started, as I said in my Iris Award speech at the end of the season, very drunkly.

And the winner of the Iris Award for Podcast of the Year is Tiffany Reese. Something was wrong. I'm so sorry. I was not going to scream. I was like, be a professional Tiffany. Oh, my God. What was I thinking? That would never happen.

God. I really want to thank my husband, Michael. And for my kids who put up with me ignoring them on Sundays so I could edit this podcast, then I'm going to keep buying you guilt donuts. And I hope you're fine with that. And one day you'll forgive me. Okay. I want to think, is there going to be like a band that plays?

We're going to start saying. Okay. Okay. I want to thank, holy shit. I want to thank Sarah that the podcast is about. She's amazing. And she inspires me every day to share more about myself. And my friend Alyssa, who introduced us and has cheered me on.

And one in three high school girls in the United States experience either physical or sexual violence or both. And emotional abuse is even more common and difficult to measure. Women ages 18 to 24 experienced the highest rates of intimate partner violence and psychological abuse. I just wrote a note to myself, you are okay at the bottom of this note card. Oh my God, I'm up here so long. I'm so sorry. I took 10 years to get here though, so like you're fine. Okay. Okay, you guys, 11 months ago, I just, life was not good.

2018 was a b-all, and Mercury was in retrograde, like so many times it was insane. And I fell into the deepest depression, and I thought I was a failure, and I thought, I literally said to my husband, what if I never feel successful again? Well, you, imposter syndrome, because I have a trophy now. Okay. And making this story help bring me back to life. And I can't be here without all of you because you are an amazing community of empowering women, and I am so lucky to know each and every one of you. And if I don't know you yet, like, we're dancing. And the last thing I want to say is just if you're sitting on an idea and you're thinking, I want to do that, but I don't know how.

You'll figure it out. That's what YouTube is for. I didn't know anything. I just want podcasts of the year off YouTube video tutorials. Like, you can do anything. So please do that thing. And you will be here next year. So do that thing.

In your soul, if you have experienced that feeling or there's that desire, in you and you feel that connection to an idea or you're trying to essentially tap into your purpose and what you want to do or what you want to move forward. When you get that lightning bolt feeling of like this could be something, listen to it. It is so powerful. So powerful. It's just wild. Your wildest dream. I already cried this morning talking to Michael about this. When I think back to myself and who I was five years ago and where I was and where I am now. I wanted to die so many times and thankfully I made it through those feelings and now it's like all I want to do is live. You know, it's such a joyful feeling and it's taken so much work to get to this place where I am now.

It's still not perfect and it's still really hard all the time. But wow, connecting with yourself and trusting yourself. When I started season one, I remember saying to many people, like, even if the only thing that happens is Sarah and her family and a few of my friends listen to this, it will be worth it because it's not about making this

for anyone but her. I will feel so proud of myself. I was coming out of such a dark depression that I needed creativity desperately in a new way, and I needed to be challenged. I wanted to be challenged. find purpose so desperately that I was like, the worst case that could happen is that I make a season of an audio documentary, which I've always wanted to make a documentary. The worst thing that happens

is I prove to myself that I can do that. And I make Sarah's life a little bit better and hopefully make her feel a little bit more validated and understood. Hopefully, if we can teach people a couple things along the way, fantastic. And now the show is heard in every continent, I think, except Antarctica. I'm still working on you, Antarctica. I think there's about four of you. there. I've been going through submissions and doing a lot of planning for future content. To come across people's messages that are like, your podcast saved my daughter's life, I'm just very overwhelmed with an immense amount of gratitude as I am on the other side talking about the hardest parts. I feel like I'm really living out loud in bold font, exclamation points,

for the first time, like really, really doing it, sincerely. genuinely, fully, at first, the vulnerability felt so, so scary. But on the other side of that, of the sitting with it and the letting it go, not that the pain is going to be gone, but there is so much freedom in living in your truth, giving space to yourself, and validating your own feelings, validating who you were and who you are now, and how far you've come is an important thing to do. That's why the first book that I wrote ended up being about gratitude, because gratitude helped me survive my darkest times. I'm thankful for a roof over my head, thankful for my family, I'm thankful for the most basic things. When I get out of gratitude is when I get to a really dark place.

Meditation and different exercises have also been really helpful. And a lot of it is stuff that I learned through the show and through survivors, through the reading, through the research. It's just really mind blowing the whole full journey reflecting on how far that little girl in the nail salon who was told to go on a diet at four years old has come, how far that girl who was told she'll never be successful, she'll never have a boyfriend, she'll never have kids, she'll never be anything because of how she presented in this world. And it's like, not only did I do all of that despite you, I've done it really well and in a way that I'm really proud of. And with integrity, most importantly. It also is a great reminder to have sympathy for those who can't pull

themselves out of their own shit. Liz and Bob, they're going to live in their misery and do whatever they're going to do because they're unwilling to accept responsibility for their behavior. And that's the difference, right, between people who are toxic to us. We're all human and we all make mistakes and we're all capable of bad behavior. However, people who are empathetic and compassionate and loving and kind, take accountability when they harm people. They don't just say sorry. They actively make change in their behavior to show that they are sorry and that they are respecting your boundaries and your feelings. That's the difference. When I got to a place where I saw that I was continually going to these people for something they could not give me, they were incapable

of giving me. I started to focus on instead giving it to myself. That is when everything changed. How it feels is free. I feel so free. I felt so at peace with it. It was still hurtful. Don't get me wrong, like all of the ship that came before it. It was still painful even though I knew it wasn't right. It's still hurt. And there's still grief for what's not there. I wasn't even 30 years old yet. And I've already lost my brother and chose to cut contact with Bob and Liz. There's a lot of grief and pain, but it's a completely new chapter. And it is so freeing. People will say, like, have you spoken to your mom?

Or like, are you planning on speaking to your mom? And just for the record, everyone, for the rest of time, the answer is, no, I do not plan on speaking to her. The reason for that is that the peace and the freedom, not everybody deserves access to your energy. and your life. My kids deserve better. I deserve better. And I learned a lot about life doing the exact opposite of what my parents did. So I can thank them for that. I also think that as much as my parents hurt me and harmed me, that they're also human beings who perhaps did the best that they could. It's not an excuse. It's more of giving grace because that serves me to release the resentment. bringing up all of this and talking through all of this how upset it made me and hearing myself back,

hearing how hurt I still was, I realized that a piece of the healing too is now choosing to find compassion for them because I now get this incredible life that they don't get to be any part of. And in all the fucking possible ways, I won. So like, you know, fuck you very much. I release it and as painful as it still can be to think about, I also have reached this place of, I guess it's more pity. So maybe it's not real healing, but at least it's better than anger. Maybe on the other side of pity is forgiveness.

Amy, I know that we talk about this a lot. Forgiveness isn't required. You can let go and you can move on and you can seek closure within yourself. Part of the journey for me is also reminding myself that some people are just not, not going to apologize or take ownership of the things that they've done to you because then they would have to look inwardly and face a lot of things about themselves and they may not have the capability or choose not to. I can't let that delay my healing because I've been through too much and come too far to allow them to hold me back any further. They got too much of my

energy and too much of my time. It is an honor and a privilege to be a parent. It is not a guarantee. Anybody who tries to convince you that blood means that people can treat you however they want and have no accountability, family is family, that is completely toxic and false. That's what abusers want us to believe. They want to keep us there. They want to silence us. And I'm going to get into that a little bit more about the reflection I had about all the ways

my mom tried to silence me even in these last few years. but I'm able to start letting go of more. So I'm going to start focusing a lot more of my energy on that and living in the past a lot less because I'm feeling really done with the past. The more that I have learned through the show and through therapy and through these years is a different understanding of how the parent-child relationship should be,

but because it never was there in the first place, it was very confusing navigating through that. But now when you look at just the evidence, the data points, it's quite clear in a different way than I've ever had clarity. And honestly, I've learned so much through other people sharing that I'm finally able to contribute something. Now I know, thanks to Amy's research and her help through the season that about six months after the baby shower incident was when their civil case was finalized and I believe they got their settlement. I don't know if her behavior had anything to do with that, but she's so selfish and strange about money and possessions that it wouldn't surprise me. She's told me so many times in life that basically if it was an inconvenience for me to be around for whatever reason,

if I was being too poignant or truthful or emotional or whatever it was, she would push me away to avoid accountability or, you know, if she felt self-conscious about substance use, things like that. So it makes me wonder, like, because she knew that I thought that the money should go to Bobby's daughter, and I had made that very clear, because she knew that I knew everything about her racism and Bob's racism and the community that they're now trying to, like, infiltrate essentially for their own gain. I wonder if it was convenient for her and she knew what she was doing when she came to that baby shower that day. In the moments of honesty, she has confessed essentially to those sorts of things. for. It was difficult to see people like Bob and Liz. Liz specifically was going to these vigils and going to protest and stuff, which like, to be clear, Bob and Liz, there were so many times where I would be out with Liz. And I remember one specific example I'll give is being at a movie theater with her in South Lake Tahoe and the young teenage gal who was waiting on us

while she was getting popcorn or whatever, did something that Liz didn't like. And Liz, such a Karen, slammed her fist on the movie popcorn counter and said, fucking Mexicans at this girl. I was so horrified. My mouth just dropped open. She stormed off and I was just left there apologizing.

Like, I'm so sorry. She's such a bitch. I'm so sorry. Are you okay? And that was like so much of my fucking life. When I reflected this, it's like being fucking stuck with these miserable people for so much. And so that's why there's also so much freedom on the other side of it.

So it felt really fucking weird to me to go to these police brutality marches and see Liz get up on a stage where most of those families are black, brown, and indigenous people because they are killed at much higher rates than the white population and seeing her essentially using this community to serve her own interests because that is what she told me. She told me that research that they did of ways to sort of put pressure on the police in civil court was to do these things and take part in it. Now, does that mean that they didn't also care? Sure, they did, but it's like you have to look at the whole picture and all the data

points of this person and these people and their behavior leading up to these moments. And I pray to God that she had a change of heart and has reflected, I've never heard that reflection, so I can't speak to it. She just pretended, as she always did, that things never happened that happened. It's always been very layered and hard to do it without telling the full story, which is why I'm so thankful, too, to be sharing the story on the show, because I feel like I'm able to do it in a much more honest and clear and hopefully full picture. I think two things can be true. I think they cared about Bobby and were very much harmed by his loss. I also think they are racist people who will take advantage of any situation they're put into if it serves their interests.

It doesn't change any of my beliefs in whether or not families should pursue civil action. And also just knowing how selfish they are. It was very difficult to navigate all of the emotions regarding Bobby's death, who killed him, the accountability options, the money element given my parents past. There were so many different layers to it. Throughout the first two and a half years, I still had to work a full-time job on top of parenting three kids, on top of taking care of a household, and then working on the podcast, which was a second full-time job. So no days off at this point. But I think that because of where I was emotionally,

I was really ready to be like head down in the work, connecting with Sarah and Alyssa and discussing these things and learning more and reading and educating myself and all of it, that lightning bolt moment and finally feeling like I'm walking in my purpose. It was hard to be sure, like taking some of the feedback in season one and all the drama and all the stress that comes behind the scenes and stuff. There's a lot to it, but the good exponentially thousand times outweighs the negative. I wanted to prove to myself I could and I also wanted to help Sarah and I also saw the importance of her story and was drawn to her story in many ways because of my own experiences. And also digesting so much in the true crime space and seeing areas of opportunity for more

survivors' voices, more empathy, more ethical content and consumption, observing all of that, and then taking stock of what I had to offer. And my desires as a creator, I saw the investment could be really life-changing of my time, even though there was no guarantee. And I knew that no matter what, I would gain a friend. I would learn a lot. I would prove something to myself. And maybe I'd help some people.

And me and Sarah said from the beginning, if we help one person, great. I also shared with Sarah that I saw the opportunity that, you know, there could be potentially many seasons of people's stories. The body image abuse and catfishing and the unique circumstances of her story when I heard it really drew me to want to meet her and validate her feelings and connect with her and know everything about it. Also seeing that this is the perfect example of when these things escalate and they

continue how they can lead to much more dangerous things and seeing the opportunity where we can educate people, specifically young people who are listening to podcasts at higher rates than ever before, knowing that we all want more ethical content and want to hear more. lived experiences, but also educating the next generation of people like my children so that they can avoid these things because I saw that was often missing within the content. Working on season two, I was also working on writing my first book, which was a journal, and then my father-in-law died. We lost Papa around season two, season three. He was very important to our entire family and he really was a dad to me in a way that no one else ever actually was, as imperfect as our

relationship was. I know he loved me very much. I'll never forget on Mother's Day or my birthday, he had given me a card. And he wasn't a man of many emotional words, but I also could kind of bring out a soft spot in him because I'm the type of person like, oh, you're not going to say you love me? That's fine. I'll just tell you 10 times. I love you. I don't care. But he wrote a, this card, something along the lines of like, I'm your dad, sorry, whether you like it or not. The podcast, I was not making even as much as like a part-time job. It was costing a lot of time and energy. I was so invigorated by the response, the community we were building, by that purpose that I was finally feeling. And even though life continues to be hard and things

continued to get hard outside, finally living in your purpose. And being able to also work so intricately with something that you are so passionate and have so much lived experience with is an incredible blessing in a gift. I'm just really, really thankful for every single survivor who has ever trusted me from Sarah and every person who has come after her. It's like going from having this very isolating childhood where like the TV and my tapes were my friends and plants and sports and these things going from feeling so isolated and alone and feeling at times like nobody could understand to now getting to have these conversations with people all over the world

in such a meaningful way, it's fucking Bonsetown. It's ridiculous. The book that I wrote, Irreverent Self-Help is how they described by writing. It was written by me and Morgan together. When I moved on from BuzzFeed, I took this kind of funny turn into book publishing. And I found myself with the ability to suddenly hire writers and get books published. Tiffany was, I think, on season two or three, if something was wrong, just continually leveling it up every time I listen to it. It just blew my mind. She just is so natural and so good at it.

It was my daily listen on my way to and from work every day. But I was developing a book that was a gratitude journal. for people who had been through some shit, essentially. It occurred to me that my friend, who was so brilliant, who I would have wanted to write this book under any circumstances, had created something where I could go to my bosses and I could say, look at this. She should do this book.

She's the person that we're going to hire for this. And she brought that work ethic to it. She rocked it out. She was amazing and effective. For the first time, we disagreed on something professionally. and she won that argument because she's smarter than me. But even in collaborating and disagreeing, collaborating and having to have tough conversations, I was just so excited to be able to work with her and I learned from her.

I learned from the way she self-advocated. I've worked with a lot of authors. And some people are just so excited for the opportunity that they lose sight of their own best interest. Tiffany is true to herself in a way that would never allow that to happen, that she would not put something out into the world that was not authentic to her. So I hired her to write another book because obviously,

when you learn something from the person that you're working with, you want to work with them again. When I reached out to her about strong women rising, I remember saying to her, I think you can write whatever book you want. So I want to present this opportunity,

but I don't want you to feel like you have to say yes because it's me. And I don't want you to write this book if it's not a book you want to write. Ultimately, she did decide it was a book she wanted to write, and I had her in mind when we were first developing that book, and she brought to it more than I could have ever imagined, which I think at this point you realize would have been a lot.

My expectations of her are pretty high. It was yet another capacity in which I got to work with her, and at that point, she had been doing so much research and working with so many people and connecting with the audience that we're talking to now. And the knowledge that she was able to infuse into those books, especially her second book, was just so valuable. And I think for the rest of my life,

that book will be one of the things I'm proudest of because I had a small part in bringing a little bit more Tiffany Reese to the world. A few months before COVID, finally stepped away from my other position because the show was finally starting to make almost as much as that job was making. to where I could justify it. So I actually wrote the two books that I wrote for the money that they paid me up front so that I could continue to make the podcast for six more months because I believed

that much in the podcast and the idea. And I saw how the community was impacted and how meaningful it was to myself in our community. So I'm like working full-time job, taking care of three kids, wrote two books, and made the podcast all at the same time during 2019 and 2020, just so that we could reach season five, season six, which is just wild to think about now. Then COVID happened. The lockdown happened while I was working on season four. I had gotten like my tax return. And so I had decided I was going to invest in myself for six months and get myself in a very small, inexpensive office outside of the home because we were living with so many people that it was nearly impossible to record or write in peace. And then within weeks, COVID happens. And then as my second book was coming out,

COVID is happening. It was very interesting times and we all kind of know how that went. Some things transpired and we ended up during 2020 not having anywhere to live. That was a really difficult time for our family within a few weeks of the lockdown. Emails were being sent out at a lot of networks, not just the ones that I was at the time where it was basically like, we don't know if you're going to make any money this year or next year because advertising is the first thing to go when the economy is struggling typically in terms of people's budgets. During the summer of 2020, Memorial Day weekend, George Floyd was murdered by a police officer. While that was happening, we were losing our housing. It was a very difficult summer for our country, the protests, and certainly given Bobby's murder,

it was very difficult emotionally to navigate all of that. I was so thankful to see that some people were finally starting to care and honor police brutality as a very valid and real thing and the ways that it impacts black, indigenous, and brown people the most. It was also extremely triggering and hard because a lot of times when I would try to get on the internet, even if it's for work purposes or whatever, there's these horrific videos, and obviously that's extremely triggering to anyone. It was really, really hard. While I was working on season five, the lockdown was continuing.

We ended up barely being able to get a house and we were living in. one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in Sacramento again and a very small space. We didn't have a washer and dryer. We didn't have a dishwasher. Our house backed up to a very high crime pocket. It was really difficult. And I think you can hear that in season five and season six. Actually, I don't listen to the episodes back once they're really out and done unless there's a reason that something's flagged or a reason that I specifically go back to content, just because I'm always focused on the next thing. But I was really, really depressed. We were struggling financially. Michael had taken a new job that was hopefully going to be better for our

family long term. And during COVID, after a few months of being there, the restaurant closed. And the day after Christmas, actually, he had to lay off every employee of the store, including himself. It was really scary. The kids had a hard time. The neighborhood we lived in, it was during the weird firework time, too, where people were setting off fireworks for no reason all the time. And they were specifically doing this in this area that we lived. People's houses and trees caught on fire from fireworks. But also it was just like gunshots and so much violence and stuff all the time.

I never questioned whether or not I wanted to continue the podcast. It was more always a question of, can I continue to make the podcast and somehow, make enough money so that we can count on this and that I can justify all of the time that I'm spending because our family is hurting. I think getting on the other side of the depression. What was life-changing was when I started feeling suicidal ideation that I couldn't place. Thankfully, I recognized it. I went to the doctor and actually we met over Zoom and then she sent me in to get blood work and it was determined that I have. I mean, I don't want to get into it in detail, but my thyroid's broken and I'm severely vitamin D deficient. So the two things that the blood work revealed

majorly impact your physical health as well as your mental health. There's things you can do to navigate it. It was also really good for me to know that information during COVID because the health stuff that I had going on made me way more susceptible to losing my life if I got COVID during this time pre-vaccine through the doctor and was able to start treatment and also through the forming of the podcast and a lot of the healing, the making sense and reflection and just learning more, I was able to reflect a lot on my disordered eating and come to terms with a lot of things. I'm really thankful to share that I have not been specifically on a diet where I'm like, I'm going on a diet for over four years now.

And even though I still struggle with disordered eating, especially when my anxiety is high, as I've shared, and it's still work in progress. I am incredibly proud of where I am now compared to where I was in the past. In general, my body positivity, the relationship that I'm able to have with my body now and the place where I'm at is in such a healthier place. It's been really beneficial to me,

and I think frees up a lot of my brain space so that I can focus on the show and my family and the things that I really need to focus on. After I started addressing my health, taking better care of myself, even though we were still struggling a lot. It was emotionally getting a little bit better. I started working on season six, and that is when we had the Jez episode, where Crime Junkie then made two follow-up episodes called Operation

Fireball. Through that crossover episode that we did, it completely opened up the podcast to a much, much larger audience. She had listened to the show, and we had communicated with one another, since season one. Then having their support, it was completely life-changing. It completely skyrocketed the show in a whole different way. I'll never forget seeing the show shoot up on the charts and not being able to believe it. I never even looked at the charts really before that because I don't know if I was ever even on them.

I was too busy working and paying attention to other things to even like think about that, honestly. Then I remember it was at number two and I was already like shitting myself. I could not fucking believe that. this. Me miss never going to be successful. Me miss really bad credit score. Like I'm number two. Me? Me and my fucking zero dollar budget. And then I went to bed and I woke up. It was fucking number one. I think it was like four in the morning or something and I was getting up to pee. I opened the app and I saw it and just screaming and the dog barking and everybody was like, what's going on? And I'm like, what? The whole family

jumping up and down and screaming for like, seriously, like, forever. My kids were so proud of me and Michael was so proud of me. Definitely one of the most life-changing moments. Like, holy fuck, maybe I will be able to, like, pay my bills now. Maybe things are going to change. Maybe I'm going to be able to, like, make this show and be able to survive. And also, like, fuck, look what you did. You fucking did that shit.

You fucking put yourself through school. You fucking worked multiple jobs. You fucking trained yourself. You fucking worked so hard to get here. Now you're seeing this representation of all of those years of work finally here. And it was undeniable proof. It was insane. I remember that whole weekend walking to the house and just being like, number one.

Just like, I could not contain myself and my friend's celebrating me. And I just couldn't believe it. I honestly still can't believe it. It was wild, feeling like so proud. And knowing all the bravery that it took. from the survivors, and also how this was going to mean that their stories were going to be reaching so many more people, which is what we all wanted. It was amazing, amazing. Then comes Amy. We started working on season seven. Amy's book was about to come out. I instantly was connected to

Amy and was also so proud of who she was as a human being, just hearing a brief summary of what she had overcome and what she was doing with it. And I instantly was like, whatever it takes for us to work together, let's make that happen. And also, Amy, by the way, audio chuck might be trying to sign me. That's next time on the season 16 finale of something was wrong. I have to know my limits. Like, even just going to the site, the only one time I went two years ago, which is so

wild that May 4th was when I started digging into this exactly two years ago. I just pulled up the email that I wrote June 2nd, 2021, 115 p.m. to Eden. Hello, Eden. My name is Tiffany Reese, and I'm a journalist and podcaster. I actually found your dad's name on it. It does say it's a recommendation to settle. He got out of prison eventually, and he was staying in facilities for unhoused persons or persons who have just gotten out of prison. and had been spotted by somebody I knew. And that's how I found out he was staying a block away from me at the time. I hadn't Googled him or looked him up in so, so many years.

And then I do, and here's this article about his newest scam that had just come out two months prior. I'll read three sentences, but the second one is what is mind-blowing. It says to hear Bob Henning talk about coffee is an educational experience to say the least. Something Was Wrong is a broken cycle media production, created and hosted by me, Tiffany Reese. If you'd like to support the show further, you can share episodes with your loved ones, leave a positive review, or follow Something Was Wrong on Instagram at Something Was Wrong podcast. Our theme song was composed by Gladrags. Check out their album, Wonder Under. Thank you so much.