Something Was Wrong - S23 E12: Tuff

Starting point is 00:00:00 Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Something Was Wrong early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. When a young woman named Desiree vanishes without a trace, the trail leads to Kat Torres, a charismatic influencer with millions of followers. But behind the glamorous posts and inspirational quotes, a sinister truth unravels. Binge all episodes of Don't Cross Cat early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences. This season contains discussions of medical negligence, birth trauma, and infant loss,

Starting point is 00:00:41 which may be upsetting for some listeners. For a full content warning, sources, and resources, please visit the episode notes. Opinions shared by the guests of the show are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of myself, broken psychomedia, and Wondery. The podcast and any linked material should not be misconstrued as a substitution for legal or medical advice. Origins birth and wellness owners and midwives, Kaitlyn Wages and Gina Thompson, have not responded to our requests for comment. Additionally, midwives Jennifer Crawford and Elizabeth Fuell have also not returned our request for comment. Amy Tate's responses to the allegations against her are included within this episode. This season is dedicated with love to Malik. The last two survivors you will hear from this season, Sarah and Barbie,

Starting point is 00:01:40 were clients of Origins Birth and Wellness a few years before the other survivors you've heard from this season. They were clients of Origins during the years when Origins had three owners, Kaitlyn Wages, Gina Thompson, and Amy Tate. Sarah, a former client of Amy Tate, who you'll hear from this episode, delivered with Origins Birth and Wellness Dallas in 2019. I'm Tiffany Reese, and this is Something Was Wrong. You don't know anybody until you talk to someone. Hi, my name is Sarah. Me and my husband, we met in February of 2018. We got engaged in March the next month and we got married in May.

Starting point is 00:02:59 So it was a whirlwind courtship, engagement, marriage, the whole thing. It was wonderful. Shortly thereafter, by August, I found out I was pregnant with Tuff, my son. I was pregnant with him at the rodeo in Las Vegas, and there's a Tuff Heedeman, he's an old bull rider, and then there's also a Tuff Cooper, he is a roper. We talked to his mom and I said, my husband wants to name our kid Tuff.

Starting point is 00:03:25 She said, well, just know that that's what you're going to get if you do it. And I said, okay, well, I'm not too scared of that. We need a tough boy from Texas. He was tough from when he was in my belly. It wasn't because of what happened, although it proved to be. So poetic. Yes. I was 31 years old.

Starting point is 00:03:44 I had waited a long time to finally have my babies. I had been going to a regular OBGYN. Everything was going well, but I had started to feel not a real personal connection. I felt like a number. Next pregnant person in the door, out the door, go through the motions. And maybe I didn't need a lot of attention. There was nothing dramatic about my pregnancy. I'd never even got morning sickness. One of the last times I saw my OB, I walked by her in the doctor's office. She just looked at me like she literally had no idea who I was, and I had been seeing her for 20 plus weeks. And I said, okay, I need to find something else. Looking at midwives, I was directed to Iname Gaskin's Guide to Childbirth. The premise is basically that your body is made to birth. I was thinking, well, I can do this. I don't have any problems.

Starting point is 00:04:40 I'm healthy. Beginning of 2019, I googled birth centers in Dallas. I called two birthing centers around to schedule a tour and Origins was the first one to call me back. I liked what I saw on the website. It seemed like, oh, they have got a lot of experience. And at this time, Amy Tate, Gina Thompson, and Kaitlyn Wages owned the Burr Center together. Yes, the three of them owned it. I was only ever associated or had any really contact with Amy. The other two must have been owners, but in the background. We toured it. Me and my husband went. It's this old Victorian looking house in downtown Dallas. It's got a beautiful park next door. The key factor though for me and my husband when we went is there is Baylor Dallas.

Starting point is 00:05:36 They showed us around. They also showed us this beautiful mirrored cabinet that had all of their safety equipment. They opened it up. They said here's all our safety stuff in case we have any type of emergency. If you're not going to give birth at home, this is where you want to give birth. It is quaint. It's cozy. All the things. But then look right in the backyard. There's Baylard. I told my husband, I really think I can do this. I'm made to do this. I'm all fired up. And if anything goes wrong during labor, I can be transferred to the hospital. He was like, I'm here to support you.

Starting point is 00:06:13 If I were the one giving birth, I wouldn't do it, but not in a worrisome way because I think he felt the same security. If things aren't going well or something happens, the hospital's right there. I've got like three best friends. I told them, they were like, are you sure this is a good idea? They were the only ones who were really openly apprehensive about this.

Starting point is 00:06:35 My mom was like, well, this is different, but if this is what you want to do, okay. I don't think she really understood it, but she was in the end, I think, supportive. When I transferred to the midwife, I was around 34 weeks, so I was very far along. Then I started looking into a doula. There's a doula place, North Dallas Doula Associates in DDA. They're the well-known one in Dallas. Found a doula. I love her to this day. I know she's been a doula a bunch of times.

Starting point is 00:07:07 And I was like, she could really keep me grounded. So I've got my husband, my doula, my midwives. Amy and Megan were my two primary midwives. We were already at weekly appointments because I was 34 weeks along. I was thinking, OK, this is the best of both worlds. Since I am low risk, they would test my urine every visit. Blood pressure, check the baby with the Doppler thing and they would call it baby mapping. They would just feel to see what position

Starting point is 00:07:35 the baby was in. So then you're 39 and a half weeks when you go into labor? Yep. On April 21st. I started having contractions in the morning. I texted my doula, had my little contraction timer. It was Easter Sunday. Of course then I just feel bad for going into labor on Easter. I have to legit be going into labor right now, don't I? So I thought, well, maybe it's not it in the morning.

Starting point is 00:08:05 My contractions were two minutes apart. I said, at 10, 15, like things are getting a lot more intense around here. They're coming very, very frequent. Every two minutes, my doula says, okay, you should call the midwife. The midwife, she says, come in. So I got there, they all showed up.

Starting point is 00:08:23 Amy, Megan, there was a midwife in training. And then my doula. And me and my husband. So it was the four of them and then us. When I was texting my doula all that it was about 1030. And my water broke at 130. It was going pretty quick. I felt it and I was like, oh my gosh, wow, this is really happening. They looked at the little diaper thing I was wearing for lack of a better word. They could see the meconium staining and she was like, there's a little bit of meconium but it's not worrisome. We're just going to have to do a little extra monitoring which means we're going to take your temperature and then we're going to take your temperature and then we're

Starting point is 00:09:05 going to have to check his heart rate. And as long as his heart rate is steady and you don't have a temperature, then everything's fine with the meconium. You're not at risk. I wish I would have done a Google search because once your water breaks, you're at risk for any type of infection. And that's why they were worried about checking for my temperature. This is 1 30 in the afternoon on April 21st.

Starting point is 00:09:28 I labored all day, all night. I remember I got a little bit of sleep in between random contractions. She told me if they're coming out any more than every five minutes, they're not dilating you at all. It's really just having contractions for the sake of having them. So that was pretty annoying because mine were all very intense She was like I can't for the life of me figure out why you're not progressing Let me check you and see where you at. And so she went in there and felt she said it was a band of scar tissue

Starting point is 00:09:58 That's what it felt like Previously I had had an abnormal pap and they had done one of those leak procedures. So she manually broke that scar tissue. I'm not on any type of pain help at all. Because she felt like it was blocking? Yeah, like it was stopping my cervix from dilating further. I was just in between contractions. So I was already blind with pain.

Starting point is 00:10:23 I don't even know what time this whole scar tissue thing happened. It could have been that night. It could have been the next morning. Was there any discussion at this point about going to the hospital? No, I think it was just once we get that scar tissue broken, then you'll be able to dilate and then you'll have your baby. So I'm thinking let's freaking do it. I can't explain to you how exhausted I was.

Starting point is 00:10:48 Physically, when you're in labor, it's running 18 marathons on your body. But I was actively also like physically working out. I am doing these stairs up and down. I am doing squats. And when it got to actual burning time, I just didn't have any more left in me. I was gassed having been in labor since 1030 in the morning. My husband, he had a bad feeling. When I look at these pictures, I can see the fear on my husband's face. We just kept being like, are you sure everything's okay?

Starting point is 00:11:18 His heart rate's okay and you don't have a temperature, everything's fine. And then it got to a point where it was like, you're ready to push. But I remember I kind of got like a point where it was like, you're ready to push. But I remember I kind of got like a boost of adrenaline, like I could do this. My adrenaline wore off pretty fast because I was pushing, I believe four plus hours is what someone had told me.

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Starting point is 00:13:28 enjoying one degree plus in the one degree app Spotify or Apple podcasts. I was pushing for plus hours. He sat with the crown of his head out for a long time. So he was in the birth canal for hours. I remember some point in time, somebody said there was meconium dripping out. I just was in so much pain, I couldn't see straight.

Starting point is 00:13:53 I don't know what finally scared Amy, but we have a video of the birth, well, of part of it. And you can see when she gets panicked. I don't know if she finally maybe didn't hear the heart tones. Later on, my doula was telling me, I don't believe that they were actually hearing the baby's heart tones with the Doppler.

Starting point is 00:14:18 I think they were hearing yours. Who was doing these things? I'd say, honestly, it was everybody, because sometimes it was the student. Amy said, stand up, you gotta get your baby out. I sensed this is not good. Stood up, put my leg up on the side of the tub like Captain Morgan. That's how I gave birth basically.

Starting point is 00:14:36 My husband was beneath me and was gonna like catch the baby. I don't think he should have been in that position. He's in the tub, soaking wet. She said you have to get this baby out now and then she said something along the lines of like I'm gonna have to help you and she's got a scalpel in her hand. You can see in the video part of me wishes she would have just given me the episiotomy and helped me get him out or whatever would have stopped the situation from happening. She didn't have access like I feel like to me or my baby to get in there and help with the scalpel, even if that's what she was going to have to do.

Starting point is 00:15:09 That's very scary, though. Yeah. Yeah. That video was so chilling. I was able to, like, zoom in with my video, so I was only looking at her. When I got to the part where she was talking, you can see her panicked, in my opinion. At the very end of the video before it goes out, I finally scream like I can't stand on this leg anymore. I was on one leg, obviously cramping everywhere. I need someone here to help get this baby out.

Starting point is 00:15:39 And it's not my poor husband. He's never done this before. This is his first birth. If you've been to hundreds or thousands of births, get in and help. Not my poor husband who's probably going to be scarred for life. I think that's when my husband sensed, okay, this isn't right. This isn't good. So he squeezes my belly from the top. Were they directing him to do this or his instincts were just kicking in? No, he just kicked in. He just started pushing on the top of my belly as hard as he could.

Starting point is 00:16:10 I was pushing and then his head came out and then everybody seemed relief. And then that was when the scalpel went flying. He was covered in meconium and it was dripping out of me. One more push, one more squeeze got him out. I mean, once his head came out, he came out pretty quickly. My son ended up being born at 8 55 at night of April 22nd, which was Monday night, 34 hours of labor from my very first contraction to him coming out at around nine o'clock. How long had it been between when your water broke and when he was born? How long had it been between when your water broke and when he was born? It was 31 hours with the meconium in it.

Starting point is 00:16:52 The second it was broke. So that also ups the ante now that I've researched things. They got him out and put him on my chest for just a second. I have a picture where I'm so relieved. This is brutal. It was war, but I've done it. And then they pulled him right off of me. I think her hands are on him in the picture picture taking him immediately away. He never cried. He was covered in the meconium. They could see it so they wanted to start suctioning. But immediately they were calling for the ambulance.

Starting point is 00:17:22 They took him over to that pretty cabinet with the mirrors and they opened it up and they have a little place there where they set him and they started trying to suction him. But the suctions weren't working. He had so much meconium in his lungs and in his throat. So he didn't have any air. His discharge summary says the transport team was contacted at 2100. But after five minutes of waiting for arrival, the transport team decided to expedite arrival and go to the birthing center using their personal vehicle. So the NICU nurses, they were supposed to wait for security, but they went ahead and

Starting point is 00:17:53 got in their own car and came over because they knew where the birthing center was. There are angels sent from above because they realize the emergency and if they would have waited they wouldn't have made it there in time. He had no respiratory effort and no heart rate when they arrived. According to this, he was not alive. They were trying to intubate him. They got him intubated. It says a large amount of meconium suctioned from the tube following intubation.

Starting point is 00:18:23 Then it said the heart rate noticed to be rising, chest compressions were stopped, the total time for chest compressions was two minutes. They were still waiting for the ambulance to arrive so waiting for another five minutes the infant stabilized and was transferred to Baylor Universal Medical Center for further management. So the NICU nurses got him stable in the birthing center in their little medical cabinet. He was born at 855 and he didn't get to the hospital until 940. So that was a very long time. I feel like we could have just ran him across the street and gotten him help faster. My husband went with him by ambulance to Baylor. I had to

Starting point is 00:19:01 deliver the placenta still. I was sure I'm telling myself, this isn't happening. My doula, after the birth, she called another one of her doula friends to have her come replace her. My doula was spent, this was a long day, emotionally draining, and I think she really knew the gravity of what had just happened. Whereas I didn't understand anything yet. I did not know how serious this was.

Starting point is 00:19:24 Even at this point when they took him away, I just thought, okay, maybe he had a hard time breathing and they're taking him to the hospital. I still had to deliver this placenta. I do not have any recollection of delivering the placenta at all. Afterwards, she said, you can't go until you go pee. I remember I sat there and tried and I tried. I was so frustrated and she's like, I could catheterize you and I'm like, good, please. You know, I remember her saying, and tried and I tried. I was so frustrated and she's like, I could catheterize you. And I'm like, good, please. You know, I remember her saying, it's going to hurt. And I'm thinking, are you kidding me?

Starting point is 00:19:50 From what I've been through for the last however many days, like I could literally care less if you catheterize me. How do you get to the hospital? Someone drove me. Julie was there. Amy went with me too. By the time I got there, he was already in a NICU bed. He was seizing the ambulance on the way to the hospital. When he went to the NICU, he had no

Starting point is 00:20:12 reflexes. They would scrape the bottom of his foot. Your toes are supposed to curl. None of that happened. If they pull their arms down, they're supposed to kind of spring back up. That didn't happen. All these little check marks, they were assessing him and determined that he had moderate HIE, which HIE stands for hypoxic ischemic encephalopathy. It's essentially lack of oxygen to the brain. He was already in a NICU bed on the cooling blanket.

Starting point is 00:20:42 The faster they initiate it, the better chance it has of working. So they cool their body down to like 92.3 degrees. They want him to go essentially into hypothermia. This allows the brain to heal itself instead of continuing to swell. Once the cooling is initiated, they can be on it for 72 hours.

Starting point is 00:21:03 After that 72 hours, they have to warm them back up to normal body temperature. It's such a delicate process. When he warmed them up, he started having continuous seizures. He was on loads of phenobarb and versed and stuff like that that were supposed to stop them and they didn't. He's obviously fully intubated at this point. I think he was five or six days old in the hospital before they put him on my chest again

Starting point is 00:21:30 with all of his tubes this time and intubated and EEG on his head and all this stuff. They told us that he was brain damaged. Now, the extent of the brain damage, they said they were not going to be able to see until we're able to do an MRI But you should expect to see large large areas of brain damage It's been long enough that his lungs are clean. There's no more meconium in it. He's not breathing Because his brain is not telling his body to breathe. That's how much brain damage there is so that's why he's on a ventilator and At that point in time my husband said that sounds like we just have more to pray about. Of course, I'm just a wreck. I'm like, you're not understanding what he's saying. I would go to the hospital

Starting point is 00:22:14 every day, all day long from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. My mother and my husband made me return home every night so I could try and be a quote normal person but I was not. I was sick and I had this sick feeling in my stomach and I remember knowing I can't live with this feeling in me. I'm like it's my fault I shouldn't have been at this birthing center you know I should have been here the whole time why wasn't I here? He was born April 22nd was the 25th that's when they warmed him up seizures non-stop until May the 6th. We went home at night and we were anointed with oil from Jerusalem, which my mom had gotten

Starting point is 00:22:51 on her trip to Israel. Anointed with oil on behalf of my son, our family prayed, and we walked in the NICU the next day, he was breathing room air. That same very day, they pulled out his nose cannula, they put him to the breast, and he started breastfeeding by mouth for the first time. There's two therapists, Karen and Jenny.

Starting point is 00:23:11 Jenny is a speech therapist. Jenny was the one who, when they put Teff on the breast for the first time, she was crying and she was saying, suck, swallow, breathe, that's what he's doing. He's not brain dead, his brain is telling him to do this. Then Karen comes rushing in, because they're friends, and she's the occupational therapist

Starting point is 00:23:29 who checked Tuff's reflexes when they first got him in there. Then Karen checked all of his reflexes, and he all of a sudden was doing everything. His toes curled, you know, his arms popped back. Then she's in tears, and she said, in her 30-something years at being at Baylor, she had never seen a miracle like Tuft. He never had a seizure again.

Starting point is 00:23:48 Slowly but surely they took all the tubes off of him and they realized he didn't need it and we walked out of the hospital May 14th. We knew he'd seen a miracle. Got the MRI back and it came back as normal. It showed a few areas of low blood flow, ischemia is what they had said, but overall they still considered it a quote normal MRI and we were told to expect something

Starting point is 00:24:12 far, far worse. We had the greatest team taking care of us, but tough to me is nothing but a miracle, a miracle straight from God. Obviously everything that the nurses and the doctors did saved his brain from any further damage that was caused by the lack of oxygen through the cooling therapy and the cooling blanket and the sweet nurses and therapists. Did Amy Tate or anyone from Origins reach out to you while he was in NICU? What was your contact like with them post-delivery? We all kind of kept in contact really probably via just text message. I wasn't mentally doing so well most of the time while he was there until he started getting better.

Starting point is 00:24:52 I would tell them what was going on and keep them up to date. When he did start getting better, I'm like, told the whole world. Everyone was really thrilled. We went afterwards with Tuff to Origins, took a picture with the midwives like all the babies do, you know, you go for your post visit. So we did all of that. Nicole Johnson Bringing him home must have been such a big deal. Tiffani P. Johnson Oh my gosh, yes. But we had to wean him off

Starting point is 00:25:16 of phenobarbital. That's a very powerful drug. They told us he had infantile spasms. It's a type of seizure. There was this therapy called ACTH, this hormone that he got injections twice a day in each leg for two weeks straight. So we had to continue to do those when we brought him home for the infantile spasms. He had a spinal tap for two weeks. He had all these pokes and prods, EEGs and lines in his belly button, all of these things that you know were extremely painful. And it makes me so sad for him that he had to go through that. My doula, she wrote me a summary. She had said things were a little shocking with

Starting point is 00:25:56 how they treated him after the birth. Access to the baby was substandard to say the least. She said they did include me in the resuscitation as a partnership and respectful in searching me out for advice and assurance that they were doing the best things. Asking the doula if they're doing the right thing? Yeah. My doula was a nurse, but she's not there as a nurse. That's why she had said to me in this email that she was really trying to stay in her lane. She says, I'm not a nurse when I'm a doula and I really try to compartmentalize that.

Starting point is 00:26:31 But once it came down to a life or death situation, she said I didn't really care about staying in my lane and being fearful as my license as a nurse because she was driven strictly by her instincts to do everything that she could for him and for me. If my doula wasn't there, how much worse would it have been? He was in physical therapy for the first year of his life. I remember they said he needed to crawl by nine months. There was this big looming deadline in my head.

Starting point is 00:26:57 He's gotta crawl by nine months. He was like eight months and 30 days and he got the knees and crawled. We were screaming and jumping and crying. It was so huge. They told us, we'll see if he walks. We'll see if he talks. They just kept kind of inching out this milestone thing. That baby who was supposed to be brain dead, he was riding his balance bike flying down driveways at 17 months old, but he was appropriately named. And now we have three more brothers and sisters. That was always the plan. We were going to

Starting point is 00:27:31 fill up the house, so now we have four babies and he's the sweetest big brother in the world. It wasn't until a year later when I was watching a movie with my husband and there was a woman giving birth in the movie. It sent me complete panic attack meltdown. And my sister-in-law gave birth a year later and that sent me into a meltdown. I was physically starting to have panic attacks about this subject. I just remember thinking if I had just gone straight to the hospital, you know, they would have known his heart rate. They would have known why I wasn't dilating. I probably could have asked for some drugs by then and I could have been able to push through the pain.

Starting point is 00:28:12 You know, just all these things that of course I put on myself later that isn't fair. And that was when I started thinking of was this right? Was my son really in the best of care? We saw the meconium in the birthing center. That's where it all went wrong. I was low risk until I wasn't. As soon as you introduce something like the meconium, it changes everything. It changed my birth, and it changed my son's story.

Starting point is 00:28:38 We were just constantly being reassured that everything was fine. My mom told me later that in the NICU that night, when everybody rushed in and Tuff was already on the cooling blanket, we were all in the waiting room. My mom said, I'll never forget that Amy looked at her and said, I'm just so sorry, but these things just happen.

Starting point is 00:28:56 Our world is destroyed, right? Our family doesn't know what's happening to their first grandchild from me. And I'm like, no, these things do not just like, I know bad things happen, okay, but this one was avoidable. I feel like there was enough warning signs. And if I hadn't been blind with pain and exhaustion, I would have been the one to say it. Me and my husband, we weren't even at our first wedding anniversary yet by the time that this whole thing happened with Tuff. He said to me something like, I knew you wanted to do

Starting point is 00:29:28 this and I was fully supportive. But had I known you like I know you now, I would have physically carried you out of that plate like we would have been gone. We just literally didn't know each other like that. I didn't know what I could and couldn't say to you. I don't think it was malicious, but they were not competent in what they were doing. Amy's license says June 6th of 2018. So that's less than a year before my son was born. Meanwhile, Megan was less than a year. She was August of 2018.

Starting point is 00:30:05 I think about the birth every single day, and it's quite frankly exhausting. This summer, I was doing a little bit of internet Facebook sleuthing. Amy's page, I've had her muted for a long time. I haven't outright unfriended her, but it causes me a lot of anxiety seeing her all the time. But somehow I stumbled upon Kristen's profile and then I saw we had a mutual friend, Amy, and then I deep dived and that's when I found Markita and her story and I was utterly shocked. I saw the kind of work Kristen was doing. It made me think there's more people out there than just me. This hasn't just happened to me in

Starting point is 00:30:42 Tuft. I don't know why I didn't assume this before. I didn't know these type of things really did keep happening and not only happening but happening there. Maybe with different midwives but still at origins. So I reached out to Kristen, then she reached out to me again in December and I heard about this podcast. I haven't heard anything from Amy in probably five plus years. Not anything after Tuff was three or four months old. I don't post much. She randomly liked to post and went deep diving maybe into my socials. It started liking and commenting.

Starting point is 00:31:16 And obviously it's just because of this podcast. It was the day I reached out to her. Yeah, the very day. I thought, oh wow, here she comes because all of a sudden her name's been dropped, but she hasn't asked in the past five years, hey, how's Teff doing? I waited to reach out to her all the same day, back to back, call Gina, call Caitlin,

Starting point is 00:31:36 call Jennifer, Crawford, et cetera. None of them returned for comment. And then I email Amy and she right away calls me and leaves me this voicemail where she's just kind of like instantly spiraling. And then she sends me an email and it's pretending like I did not reach out to her at all. She instead is like, I'm writing you because your podcast says something about me and I got a negative review on my Google reviews. My name has been in the podcast because Kristen mentioned that she was her midwife before

Starting point is 00:32:13 transferring care to Jennifer. And so it wasn't until we had allegations that we're going to reach out to her. She was just mad that her name was mentioned and she was like, which is concerning because you're connecting me to origins, literal facts that are in public court documents because of all the lawsuits. She was in emotion and anger at the moment and in shock maybe. She called again and then I texted her. I was like, I have availability later. I'll give you a call so then we end up connecting. Hey Amy, sorry. It took me a second to get to the phone.

Starting point is 00:32:54 No worries. I'm sorry we've been playing phone tag all day. That's okay. I don't know what I can really add to your story. And I do want to clarify with you because my name does seem to be mentioned quite a few times and now I have this review on my website. I have not had anything to do with origins since late summer 2021. I was forced out of a business that I was running solely. The reason I hadn't reached out to you before was because quite frankly,

Starting point is 00:33:37 there was no allegations against you. That it was more like the passive mentioning of your name as just kind of like a fact and we were able to confirm that through like the court documents and stuff. I never had any allegations against me. I still have not had any allegations against me. Because I practice safely in true midwifery care, unlike some people. I just feel like I'm in some way being like, in like there are, even though I get it,

Starting point is 00:34:13 like no allegations have been made, it does seem that people are thinking that I'm somehow associated with these outcomes, which I am so, so, so sad that they happened, but also so thankful that I have absolutely nothing to do with them. So there have been a few people that have come forward alleging that they were under your care at Origins

Starting point is 00:34:43 before you left and They're reporting negligence Right I can shed a little bit more insight on that on that piece. But that's when like the shift happened and that's why I wanted to connect with you because obviously that's a very different situation. I don't know if you recall Sarah and her son tough. I do recall Sarah. Absolutely. I recall Sarah. Yes, I do. I can't speak to her case without permission. I think that there was something called meconium aspiration syndrome that led to her case. but I can't really go into great detail about it. Yeah, I know it's tricky with HIPAA violations and all that kind of stuff to like speak to it. So I was gonna ask you more like general questions,

Starting point is 00:35:51 more of like your processes in terms of how long would you consider too long that someone is pushing before you transfer them? It really depends on the medical stability of both mom and baby. you transfer them? Yeah. minutes, every other contraction basically while people are pushing. And baby sometimes shows you that they're not doing great by having what's called a deceleration. And if the baby were to have a deceleration, then that would be concerning and you would listen longer.

Starting point is 00:36:40 You may make a change immediately. I think that person actually videoed their birth so I made a long video. They did provide that. Yeah. So like during listening, if baby's stable, then you can continue to push for, you know, it depends how long, but three to four hours is very common for first time moms to push. Okay, okay.

Starting point is 00:37:17 Even in a hospital setting where they're medicated, sometimes if we transfer people, we see them push for four or five hours at the hospital as long as they be stable. And then what there was another claim like records being changed after the fact or things being in. Or ever changed in my when I was there. I've never experienced that. Okay. Were you aware of Gina and Caitlin's practices when it came to that?

Starting point is 00:37:53 I never worked directly with Gina and Caitlin. Because it sounds like they had you working the floor by yourself, essentially doing everything before you left is what I gathered. Yeah, I mean, I would not disagree with that statement. Yeah. I'm everything. I mean, they did a lot of like business stuff. Yeah. More of the like running of it.

Starting point is 00:38:18 One of the claims was that she wasn't aware that shoulder dysplasia was like an yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah she did tell me that which is why I want to make sure I reach out and we discussed it and then there are a few others who have There are people that have been in care and come back to care and now because they're being contacted and kind of rallied, honestly, you know, have you ever heard of a witch hunt where you just kind of go after anybody you can find and you see them information? Yeah, they said that you would say that actually. They said that that's what Origins has claimed

Starting point is 00:39:18 this whole time. Well, that's what Origins was claiming. And I doubted it, I did. But now it's like every single midwife who ever Came across whoever transferred somebody legitimately whoever had somebody, you know who who had Not a bad outcome

Starting point is 00:39:38 But there's one person who's upset now because they wanted me to be their midwife and I wasn't on call Like I mean, I can't speak to all of that Yeah, my perspective from the people that I've spoken to is that they had really I helped and talked to Kristin initially and was helpful to her. So now I'm like, what's going on? Kristin did not share anything negative with with me about you or I would have reached out sooner. I had no very little interaction until after her outcome. So that makes sense. Right. Right. She said that you left and then Jennifer, who was a student, became her, quote, midwife, who had no business practicing. Did you know that they were going to handle the clients

Starting point is 00:40:39 that way that they were going to be passed off to a student? I knew that they were unethical and I told them that they needed to provide someone to be her receptor because I would no longer do it. Yeah. Did you ever feel like when you were leaving, like the need to alert the authorities, did you worry that what Gina and Caitlin were doing were criminal? At the time I did not. Okay. I was very blindsided by the takeover.

Starting point is 00:41:17 They are very good con artists. Mm-hmm. And they kept everything very close to their chest. After I left, there were some things that started happening that made me feel like there wasn't much oversight at the old practice. I had nothing to do with the practice after that. And they're basically their claim against you was essentially that you had breached your contract. But your claim, no?

Starting point is 00:41:48 Their claim, not, no. They claimed that later when they sued me for saying I was going to open a birth center later. Gotcha, the subsequent lawsuit, right. That's the second lawsuit. Right, sorry, yes, yes, okay. Read the answer from my attorney because that's the real story.

Starting point is 00:42:05 Yeah. Okay. That's what really happened. I didn't know I needed a heavy hitter lawyer. I thought I was just like negotiating to get out of a terrible situation with them. Yeah. One is when I hired somebody and spent the mass part of my savings to put the real story out there. And read that story. That's the real story of what happened.

Starting point is 00:42:30 And then they decided they had nothing. So be very careful because I do have a real good attorney and some of what you're insinuating has never been brought until this started. I hear what you understand that people can say anything. Like I could say right now- Amy, I've been doing this a long time. I'm very well aware of how everything works, but I appreciate your time.

Starting point is 00:42:53 Thank you very much. Bye bye. Bye bye. She reached out to me March 16th. I'll just read it to you. It says, I honor your feelings and memories, even if they are different than mine. It was an honor to be a part of your labor and birth, and I remember that day so clearly. The meconium was trapped behind his head and unknown until birth. It was a shock and we acted quickly to support and stabilize while Nikkyu was en route. Julie, a hospital trained C&M,

Starting point is 00:43:39 and I both remember the day so well. And then she sent a link to meconium aspiration syndrome. That was her message. So basically she's not sorry and you're wrong. She doesn't even know what I remember. That's the funny thing. She hasn't heard anything from me. She sent me a link to meconium aspiration syndrome. Obviously, I understand what that is. I have to live through it. I'm still living through it. The timing couldn't be better for my rage. Because this week, I had to take Tuff to the neurologist again.

Starting point is 00:44:14 He had to have an EEG. He's sitting there saying to me, while they're putting the things on his head, mommy, what's wrong with my brain? I have to tell him, nothing is wrong with your brain, and you are perfect but we have to make these check-ins and we have to do this stuff. When I'm long and gone he's gonna have to keep up with his own paperwork and make his own appointments

Starting point is 00:44:34 all because of this one day. I wrote her back I just gave it to her some of what I said was it does seem like we do indeed remember the day differently. Julie is a CNN, but you and Megan were the midwives in charge of our care, and you being the owner of Origins at the time, I feel like it defaults to you. I'm fully aware of meconium aspiration syndrome now. Unfortunately, I wasn't at the time I was giving birth. One thing you might be forgetting was that when my water wasn't at the time I was giving birth. One thing you might be forgetting was that when my water broke there at the birthing center I had

Starting point is 00:45:08 meconium stained amniotic fluid which then put me at a much higher risk for MAS meconium aspiration syndrome. So it shouldn't have been a shock that meconium was present at delivery. She's saying it was a shock like she didn't know it was there. What are you talking about? My water had been broke for over 31 hours with meconium by the time my son was born. And I said, had the risk been explained to me

Starting point is 00:45:35 that your child could be brain damaged or die, then I would likely have chosen to transfer with this vital information. I was owed at least the full explanation of the risks of staying Then no, he was not stabilized I have hospital paperwork that shows he had no respiratory effort and no heart rate when the nicotine arrived In fact, he was not alive. I told her there's a survivor group of origins with over 40 people in it I tell her about the mental side effects for me and my husband.

Starting point is 00:46:09 I wrote her this very heartfelt eight-page thing to her, like, here's what I think you did wrong, here's where you can do better, this is how it affected me and others around. Basically, I hope we can kind of move forward. The Christian woman in me is trying to forgive Amy Tate, but she writes, Sarah, I'm glad you shared your feelings. I respect them and wish your family nothing but the best. I do want to clarify that Julie was not a student at the time. She was a CNM, but training in out-of-hospital birth as she had only worked in the hospital.

Starting point is 00:46:38 Tough did have a heartbeat the whole time. We performed NRP and called over the NICU team. They had MAS at the hospital and told us it took longer because they had to come over separately. We used suction, oxygen, and the Doppler the whole time and they intubated when they got there. Also, the survivors of the Origins group was started long after I was bought out. I do not know the people in that group." And then she wrote, I will also never forget Tuff. So then I wrote back, here is the paperwork from the trained medical professionals about what happened to him and I'll let that be the end. It's a screenshot from his actual Baylor University

Starting point is 00:47:20 paperwork that says, on arrival, infant noted to have no respiratory effort and no heart rate. Infant suction due to visible meconium noted in mouth and PPV initiated after 30 seconds of effective PPV and while awaiting intubation equipment. Chest compressions initiated due to absent heart rate. I'm sorry, she's trying to rewrite history. How would she know that when they weren't even monitoring him all the time? I'm not sure. After I sent her the thing with the paperwork, she wrote, we repeatedly state our sorrow, love and prayers for Tuft in your family during and after the transport. You

Starting point is 00:47:58 have always been in thought and prayer. I can only speak to the heart rate we were getting during the neonatal resuscitation we performed as we waited for the transport team. I do appreciate you sending this over. Many blessings. I'm happy to say again, I'm so deeply sorry for the trauma you experienced." She has yet to say, I did anything. It's probably maybe for legal reasons. She doesn't want to say that. She'll say, I'm sorry for the trauma you went through. It's like doing something to somebody and going, I'm sorry that it made you feel that way. Actually, that's not the same thing. I went to Origins website and it says, if your health care provider needs your records, please sign release to this email address. I

Starting point is 00:48:40 haven't heard anything from them. And I'm like, you know what, I'll just go straight to Amy. Hey, Amy, I'd like a copy of my medical records. She says, I'm so happy to send them to you, Sarah. What is your email address? And I gave her the address. Then she wrote, I'm also happy to meet again and hear you. I value all of your feedback and honor your feelings. I pray peace over your heart.

Starting point is 00:49:01 But I still don't have any medical records. So there's that. That's what irritates me the most. I'm not holier than thou. You don't have to talk to me like I'm a holy roller okay but I feel like that's what she tries to do. Amy owns her own birth center now, Swiss Avenue Birth and Wellness Center. It's literally on the same street that Origins was on. Another small little Victorian house. My point in saying all of this is that it wasn't the name of Origins that has done all

Starting point is 00:49:31 of this. It's the midwives. Yes, it was a hell house. There's a lot of bad stuff that happened in there, but who was facilitating that? Origins got shut down, and now we just have like four different origins that have sprouted up in its place. Amy Tate was Jennifer Crawford's preceptor. Yes.

Starting point is 00:49:53 And then Amy left because Gina and Caitlin were allegedly overseeing Jennifer Crawford. She might have switched because Amy left. I mean, this is Jennifer's own words. It's screen-shotted. June 20th of 2019. Now, don't forget my son, he was born April of 2019. So just two months later, Jennifer started. First day, first birth. It was an honor to be a part of the love and compassion that goes with out of hospital

Starting point is 00:50:22 midwifery care. What is sad is that March 25th of 2020, she posted, midwifery is hard. This beautiful sleeping baby and her sweet family are in my continued thoughts and prayers. I don't know who that is referencing, but that is referencing another baby lost. March 25th of 2020. She just has this on her Facebook. Here in the world lost a baby. And who knows how many that there are.

Starting point is 00:50:54 According to Jennifer's Facebook, July 18th of 2020, she writes a post, still in all my dream is finally coming true. So thankful for my amazing preceptor, Amy Tate, and all my midwife mentors who cheer me on. They have their name and then they have these letters behind it. Do we all know what all these letters mean? Do you go and Google licensed midwife or CNM certified nurse midwife? They've got these letters behind.

Starting point is 00:51:22 To me, it meant something in the medical world. If the state of Texas would allow a place like Origins to have many, many, many babies born there, one would assume that if this is legal, then they have gone through a rigorous check. If I could implore any woman to please do more research than I did. If I could go back and tell myself everything, I would say, think of your baby, not of you and your birthing experience that you want to have. I think that every birth can be magical in itself, whether it is inside the walls of a hospital or in a birthing center. But to me, it's not about me. It's about your unborn baby who doesn't have the choice of how is he gonna come out. If I wanted to go all natural,

Starting point is 00:52:12 I could have done that within the safety of a hospital. I think midwives are great. I saw a wonderful midwife group after Tufts with my subsequent children that delivered in a hospital. I got admitted and I was quote trying to go natural again. I gave myself a 12 hour limit. I'm not going to go through 30 something hours of this again. And so I hit my 12 hour mark. I got an epidural. I do not know why I ever suffered for days on end in this kind of pain. So I put my makeup on, I'm got fake eyelashes and you know, the whole thing. I was the happiest girl in the world. The midwife she said we don't have to call it but you might be in for a long push and after what happened last time I don't want this to be any type of

Starting point is 00:52:54 emergent situation. I said you know what I am perfectly fine with a c-section if what's safest for my baby is to call the OB and get him here right now and let's just get him out let's do that and she said I do think that that's what's safest for you and your baby as long as you're okay with that. And this is a midwife saying this. She's not here trying to push for natural birth. And I respected her more for that. And I said, call the doc. I've already got my makeup on. You're telling me I could hold my baby within an hour? Like, let's do this. My second son, Rocky, came out and I just wanted him to breathe. That was it.

Starting point is 00:53:26 I could care less what amount of drugs they pumped into me or didn't. I just wanted to hear him cry and he did. He's perfect. He's fine. He's all mine. And it didn't matter that I had a C-section with him. That was the safest option at that point. At the end of the day, it's you and your baby that come home or don't come home. Whoever you birth with, an OB, a midwife, they all just go back to their lives and keep going.

Starting point is 00:53:51 They can forget what happened or how traumatic they really were. Because only you go home with your baby and are left to deal with the doctor appointments. You can feel like they're part of your family and get that warm and fuzzy, and the birthing center is beautiful and great. It's just a business. Birthing is business. And I hate to say it like that, but it's 100% true. And I think that that's why we didn't get transferred to the hospital, because they probably would lose out on money. What do you hope that listeners will remember when they're hearing these stories this season?

Starting point is 00:54:27 If you have any doubt in your head, get a second opinion or go to the hospital. If something isn't right, advocate for yourself, advocate for your baby. If something is off, it's okay to get out of there. I had that bargain with God that if he'd save my son, I'd tell as many people as possible. I need to tell his story, not only for his sake, but for my sake. I need to get this off my chest. I finally, this week, joined the Origins Survivors Group. There's big stuff happening because of what went wrong at Origins. I'm very proud of Kristen and all the girls. I'm kind of late to the game, but I'm getting involved.

Starting point is 00:55:04 I know you'll move on to other stories and things will happen, but you know what? This needed to happen for the birth community and obviously for Dallas, but where else is this going to reach? I hope that Malik's law gets pushed through and we can make birthing safer. It's not about attacking the midwives. It's about making birth safer for the moms and the babies because that just should be the bottom line Sarah and tough. Thank you so so much for sharing your story with us. I appreciate all of your energy and Time I know it's not easy to revisit and I genuinely appreciate it so much Absolutely. I'm happy to finally be able to tell our story almost six years later. Very grateful. Monday, April 21st, 2025, our team reached back out to Amy Tate with a full document

Starting point is 00:56:00 with quotes of allegations that would be included in episodes 12 and 13 this season. The following day, she sent her final statement in regards to these allegations. Hi, thank you for your message and for the opportunity to respond. I understand that I am being named in an upcoming episode of Something Was Wrong in connection to care I provided as a midwife.

Starting point is 00:56:25 While I cannot discuss the details of any specific client experience due to confidentiality, I want to express my heartfelt empathy to any family who has experienced pain, fear, or lasting harm in their birthing journey. Birth is one of the most sacred, vulnerable moments in a person's life. As a provider, I've always held that responsibility with deep care. If a client remembers their experience differently than I intended, or if my presence contributed to harm in ways I did not realize at the time, I carry that seriously. Since 2021, I stepped away from origins and built a new practice continuing my work, which is rooted in reflection, integrity, and transparency.

Starting point is 00:57:11 My license remains in good standing and I continue to serve families with the same commitment I've held throughout my career, to walk beside them with care, clarity, and humility. Thank you again for the opportunity to respond and for amplifying voices that often go unheard. With respect, Amy F. Tate, LM, CPM, Clinical Director, Swiss Avenue Birth and Wellness Collaborative. Next time on Something Was Wrong. Then all of a sudden I just remember I just hear this pouring sound.

Starting point is 00:57:49 It's as if someone was pouring water on the floor. I'm like, what is that? I found out it was me. I was hemorrhaging because the placenta had abrupted from the wall. I delivered the placenta and normally a placenta is the size of like a large dinner plate and mine was the size of like a large dinner plate and mine was the size of a small pancake. So it just shows you like how damaged and how unhealthy that placenta was.

Starting point is 00:58:16 Something Was Wrong is a broken cycle media production created and produced by executive producer Tiffany Reese, associate producers Amy B. Chesler and Lily Rowe, with audio editing and music design by Becca High. Thank you to our extended team, Lauren Barkman, our social media marketing manager, and Sarah Stewart, our graphic artist. Thank you to Marissa, Travis and our team at WME, Wondry, Jason and Jennifer, our cybersecurity team

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Something Was Wrong - S23 E12: Tuff

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