Something Was Wrong - S25 Ep18: Better for the Next Survivor

Episode Date: April 9, 2026

*Content Warning: sexual violence, sexual abuse, sexual harassment, strangulation, rape, on-campus violence, institutional betrayl, gender discrimination. Free + Confidential Resources + Safety Tips: somethingwaswrong.com/resources   SWW Sticker Shop!: https://brokencyclemedia.com/sticker-shop SWW S25 Theme Song & Artwork: The S25 cover art is by the Amazing Sara Stewart instagram.com/okaynotgreat/ The S25 theme song is a cover of Glad Rag’s U Think U from their album Wonder Under, performed by the incredible Abayomi instagram.com/Abayomithesinger. The S25 theme song cover was produced by Janice “JP” Pacheco instagram.com/jtooswavy/ at The Grill Studios in Emeryville, CA instagram.com/thegrillstudios/ Follow Something Was Wrong: Website: somethingwaswrong.com  IG: instagram.com/somethingwaswrongpodcast TikTok: tiktok.com/@somethingwaswrongpodcast  Follow Tiffany Reese: IG: instagram.com/lookieboo Support It’s On Us: Website: https://itsonus.org/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/itsonus/ Sources:  Bedera, N. (2021). On the Wrong Side: How Universities Protect Perpetrators and Betray Survivors of Sexual Violence. University of California Press.

Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences and discusses topics that may be upsetting. This season discusses sexual, physical, and psychological violence. Please consume the following episodes with care. For a full content warning, sources, and resources for each individual episode, please visit the episode notes. Opinions shared by the guests of the show are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of Broken Cycle Media. The podcast in any linked materials should not be misconstrued as a substitution for legal or medical advice. Thank you so much for listening. You think you know me, you don't know me well at all.

You don't know anybody till you talk to someone. Last time on something was wrong. We matched on Tinder the spring of 2017. The messaging was very brief and maybe a few months prior to when I actually met him. The only time I ever met him in person was the night that he raped me. By that Sunday evening, the 28th of May now, I had come to terms with it and was was ready to take steps. I made contact with Title IX

because the school's victim advocate's office directed me to them. He was mad. And I think it was a case of if she's going to take me down, I'm taking her down with me. Then that began the next phase of Justin's retaliatory behavior.

Nay found him, of course, not responsible due to insufficient evidence. The policy's stated that if I wanted to appeal this decision, I think it was something like three days that you had to decide if you wanted to do a hearing or not. I notified them that I would like to appeal to a hearing. My hearing was around Thanksgiving time of 2017. I was told that it would really be better for my credibility if I showed up to the hearing because I wanted to phone it in. I wanted to zoom into that thing. I did not want to be there. I did not want to see him in person. I

not want to be in the same room with him. And did he show up? He did. I show up to this big building, which is at the center of Western University. It's like the initial buildings of the university. So they're all very old and they're made of stone. And that's where the president, all the vice presidents and the university have their offices. And that's where the office of the general counsel is, as well as the room where my hearing was held. We had to go through metal detectors, which I thought was an unsettling note to an already unsettling situation.

My lawyer was with me. His lawyer was with him. They tried to say that my victim advocate couldn't come in with me, but she fought for me. She was like, uh-huh, I told her I'm going to be in there. There's no literature that says I can't be in there. I'm going to be in there. My parents did come to the building, but they were not allowed to come inside the hearing room. So they just sat in a waiting area.

So inside the hearing room, besides your lawyer and your victim advocate, were the three people on the panel? Yes. And there was supposed to be a fourth, but they didn't bother to show up. And then is there anyone else in the room? Justin and his attorney. What's funny is none of his witnesses showed up. It was like a boardroom, a long table with office chairs on either side. The three hearing committee members are sitting on the wall when you walk in.

So right when I walk in, I see the committee members. And then I sit on the left-hand side with my team and Justin sits on the right-hand side of the table with his. And who is sort of overseeing leading the hearing? No one. Do you recall how it began? Yes, I had to read my opening statement. Thank you all for being here today. I requested this hearing as I strongly oppose the OEO slash AA's finding of insufficient evidence in my claim that Justin raped me.

You have been provided with the final report that the OEO issued. You have read over the case as well as the reason I appealed the initial findings. The OEO found insufficient evidence based off of two textuals. messages I sent to Justin. I sent these text messages the morning after he violently raped me. The violence reaching a level that left bite marks on my collarbone and a laceration inside my vagina that still appeared days after the rape and my forensic exam. Viginas are strong and they are self-lubricated. Viginas are designed to withstand rigorous exams with metal tools, childbirth, and absolutely consensual sex. I state this now to help you comprehend the violence that Justin

used while raping me. He was able to tear the inside of my vagina with the level of force he used. He choked me to the point that I could not breathe, talk, shout, scream, or say no. I sent the text messages in question to Justin because I hadn't processed the events of the night before. I was scared of him and I was in pain. He had shown incredible violence toward me and I was unsure of what else he may be capable of. It was my decision that the best thing to do for myself would be to appease his ego and end any communication as soon as possible. This means I was not the stereotypical perfect victim. I am upset and disheartened that the OEO seems to have expected me to fit this perfect victim profile and behavior. I am baffled that the two text

messages seem to have discounted all the other facts and evidence that I provided to the OEO. I explained the reasons I sent the text and yet those two texts remain the downfall of me receiving justice and closure and what Justin did to me. You now have the reasons and scientific information available to you to help you understand the reasons that compelled me to send two text messages to Justin. I urge you to review my appeal and the research that supports my reasoning. I feel that the OEO made the decision that two texts held more weight than the forensic exam I received and the laceration inside my vagina and the bite marks on my collarbone and the strangulation I endured, not to mention my statement and story. Members of the Hearing Committee, I do not have much of a statement for you today, as you have seen and read all the evidence, and there is not much more contacts I can give other than to answer any specific questions you may have.

The OEO found insufficient evidence based on two simple texts, and my statement is as simple. Justin raped me. During our encounter, I asked Justin to stop hurting me. I told him that I had experienced sexual assault before, and what he was doing was scaring me, hurting me. me and reminding me of those experiences. Justin did not stop. He proceeded to strangle me and penetrate me despite me requesting that he not. I did not know how to process what had happened to me,

nor did I know what to do about it the morning after. So I prioritized his appeasement and my safety over appearing like the perfect victim. In that moment, getting justice for myself was not even on my mind. Distancing myself from a violent rapist was my first priority and a decision that I stand by because it kept me safe. The rape was so violent that I went on to receive an exam in order to understand the impact of the rape, to obtain evidence,

and to go through all the proper proceedings to make sure I was healthy. I continued to go to follow up doctor's appointments for further testing and care as a result of my rape. Through all these avenues, I was able to process what had happened to me and accept that Justin truly raped me. I'm extremely disappointed in the finding

and I believe, just as the OEO did, you have enough evidence in front of you to restore justice to this case and to me. I can answer any questions you have now. And what, if any, questions did they ask you? I don't recall the committee asking me too many questions. It was more the cross-examination from Justin's attorney, which was not as commonplace as it is now in Title IX systems.

How was that experience for you being cross-examination? There were certain things that he was focusing on that I couldn't for the life of me figure out what he was getting at. The way that my rape kit and hospital records were redacted made it seem like I could have been on a bunch of different psychiatric medication. I have chronic migraines and I've had them since I was 13 years old. And so I was and still am on a supplement homeopathic regimen to try to combat these migraines in a more natural way. When I was in the hospital, they asked you to list what medicines you're on. And so I include all of my supplements in that list of medication. I am not on any prescription medicine for my mental health, nor was I at the time, nor have I ever been.

And it's totally fine if you are. There's nothing wrong with that. That's a good thing to seek help and support for anything that you're going through. But that wasn't my experience. But the way that they redacted it, it was like line by line. This wasn't something that I found out until reading Dr. Baderer's book and speaking with her later on, is that what they were looking for was trying to trip me up, essentially, that I was on some sort of psychiatric medication, that I had been drinking, which I had. hadn't been, I don't drink, I don't do drugs, I don't take prescription medication.

All my friends, even my acquaintances, know this about me. And was he drinking that night? Yes. Was that noted in the report that you were sober and he had been drinking? I tried to point that out. But yeah, he was like a dog after a bone, that lawyer, about these medications, like asking me what I had had to drink, asking me what psychiatric medication I'm on. So it didn't land for me because I was like, what?

is this man after? There's nothing there. On my site of the room, there was a picture of a ballet major dancing in this specific studio where I danced every day. And it was just kind of like a beacon of hope for me or like a sign from the universe that this two shall pass. So apparently they did decide that day, but we don't find out about it until I think it was like December 21st. I was at home on Christmas break when I received my hearing finding. How did you find out? Was that over email as well? Yes. They upheld the original decision. The date of issues December 5th, 2017. Report and recommendation regarding hearing on OEO complaint of Allegra against Justin. Pursuant, Since a policy and procedure 1-012, a hearing was held on November 29, 2017, at 9 a.m. in a name of this

boardroom, in a name of this building, to consider the complaint of Allegra against Justin. The hearing was conducted according to the procedures set forth in Western University Policy 1-012, university non-discrimination policy and its related roles and procedures. After initial presentation by the OEO consultation on this case about the investigation and process, about the findings and conclusions contained in the OEO reports, each party was permitted to make opening and closing statements, testify, present documents, and witnesses, ask questions, and comment on the issues at the hearing. The committee's charge was to determine whether the preponderance of the evidence supports the OEOAA's conclusion that insufficient evidence exists to find Justin violated university policy 1-010. one too. The committee has prepared the following report of its findings and recommendations. Then it lists the panel members and what position they held. I had two women who were staff members and then the one student that was male that I knew. And so one staff member was an associate

accountant and the second was an administrative assistant. The committee members reviewed all the documents presented and considered the information provided by the OEO consultant and by the parties, their advisors and witnesses during the hearing. By unanimous decision of three people, by the way, the committee concurs with the OEOAA's finding with regard to Allegra's complaint against Justin that there is insufficient evidence that the respondent violated Western University's policy 1-012. In this case, the committee found by a unanimous vote that the complaint, plaintiff's conduct may have indicated consent. What led to this decision was evidence in the text messages provided by the concerned parties and witness testimony indicating that there was a

conversation on the night of the incident in question about the use of a condom, whether Justin had been tested for STDs, and Allegra's IUD implying that there was a discussion about having penetrative sex before the act itself. And Allegra's contact, according to the text messages provided explicitly, indicated her consent. Additionally, the results of the sexual assault examination performed by the sane nurse proved inconclusive and that the laceration on Allegra's vagina could have come from anything. The majority of the committee felt that the inconsistencies in Allegra's and Justin's testimonies were significant to the point that it was impossible to decide who was telling the truth. This led to the decision that the complainant failed to produce a preponderance of the evidence that

the action occurred. Therefore, the committee recommends a finding of insufficient evidence be entered and that no sanctions be imposed against Justin. In conclusion, the committee wishes to express appreciation for participation of the parties, their advisors, and their witnesses in this process. All of these terms, like the complainant's conduct may have indicated consent. Discussion of condom, STI testing, my birth control, shows that there was discussion about having penetrating of sex before the act itself. Not true. The discussion about STIs and my IUD happened the next day.

Those were in the May 28th text messages. And that those text messages explicitly indicated her consent, those were after the fact. That's not consent in the moment. And then the letter that went along with it, Dear Allegra and Justin, I received and reviewed the December, 5th, 2017 report and recommendations of the OEO hearing committee on the complaint

Allegra filed against Justin. I also received the documents and other evidence presented at the November 29th, 2017 hearing. Having considered these materials, I accept the committee's decision with regard to Allegra's complaint against Justin that there was insufficient evidence that the respondent violated Western University Policy 1-012. You both have the right to appeal this decision to the president of the university by submitting a written request for appeal within five calendar days after receiving this decision. If no written request for appeal is submitted within five days, this will be the final decision of the university. Best wishes sincerely the vice president of the university at the time. I received that on December 21st. That is four days

before Christmas. With five calendar days, I would have had to appeal to the president of the university by December 26. I think what's so criminal about that is expecting survivors to make these heart-wrenching super difficult, super high risk, something that's very meaningful in life to make those decisions within three days, five days of receiving life-altering news. And once again, I feel like that's by design. And it's like, oh, just make like a really big decision about appealing to a hearing, about letting the president of your university read about your vaginal laceration. Not to mention, it's hard to reach people like your lawyer and other people that you may need assistance or help making this happen, could be on vacation

or not checking email, et cetera. Their decision was made on December 5th, correct? Yes. So why did they wait till the 21st? Great question. I'd love to know, but I don't have an answer for you. And did you end up appealing to the vice president? No. I was so worn out. It was Christmas time for heaven's sake. I didn't want to be known by the president of the university because they read about the most intimate parts of me and the worst night of my life. And I didn't want to have to make that decision on Christmas. What was that like for you emotionally when you sort of reached this end point and realizing the system ended at that juncture? to an extent I was over it.

It had just drawn on for so much longer than I wanted and so much longer than my expectation was set from the beginning. I think it would be one thing if they were more transparent about university procedure. There was no one overseen the application of the rules of the school as well as procedural things. There was no one holding them accountable to what they had told us. So in that way it was a relief to be done. My broader question to Western University and other universities out there is what is the point of even engaging in this application of Title IX if you know you're not going to do right by anybody in this situation. You know you're not going to follow your own procedures and rules. If you love fashion like me, you probably have a mental list of pieces that you've been trying to find forever, something you saw once.

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S-W-W for $10 off. That's P-O-S-H-M-A-R-K dot com slash S-W-W. Thank you so much. A year after the Greek barbecue, I am with my classmates in between technique class and point class, and one of my classmates is discussing this new hot guy that she's dating. I was really excited for her initially because she was a very sheltered and kind of a rested development type person. I was shocked to learn that she was dating at all. The other girls that were her closer friends that she lived with were saying how attractive

the guy was that she was dating. We were all super happy for her. And so we're putting our shoes and she pulls up the guy's Instagram profile and hands it to me because I want to see. And my stomach drops, the walls are closing in, the world has stopped because it's Justin. And that terrified me because I saw Justin for who he really was at this point. The Title IX investigation was behind us. The hearing finding was behind us. And I knew what he was and who he was. And there was just no way that a rapist is taking interest.

in a very immature and sexually unexperienced woman with good intent. I felt that he sought her out and, you know, did research almost on me to find out who in my immediate circle in all of my classes could he take advantage of best? And that was this girl. And to paint a picture for people, the ballet program and the dance program in general is small. We take all of our classes together and typically we would even end up taking gen eds or classes outside of our major together because oftentimes it was the only one that worked with our schedule and we needed it to graduate. We're in the fall of senior year at this point. So I know this woman incredibly well.

We have been in the trenches together dancing for uptrial. 12 hours a day for years now. When I saw that Instagram profile, it was a horrible moment. Going through my head then in rapid succession is that no contact agreement is still in place, but what if he sexually assaults my friend? What do I do? Because I was aware, more aware than I had been a year ago anyway, that due process equals perpetrator perks.

and I didn't want to get in trouble in my senior year for violating the no contact agreement after I had stuck to it for all those years. I certainly wasn't going to get in trouble for that. And it would have brought me down to his level if I had violated that. So all of this is swirling around in my head. And we only have 15 minutes between the end of technique and the start of point. So I'm trying to get my shoes on, go to the bathroom, have a snack, get situate, so I can have a successful class

and all of this is cycling through my head. I would like to think I'm a very principled person. So pretty quickly I made up my mind that no contact, agreement, be damned. I was going to approach her because my experience with him was a life and death experience and I didn't want her to have a life and death experience. I decided to go ahead and tell her.

I pulled her out into the hallway and I said, you know how a year ago I was raped and I went through this whole thing with an investigation and a hearing and she was like, yeah. And I was like, well, your new boyfriend was my rapist. I couldn't really read how she took it.

And I think I did emphasize to her I could get in trouble for telling you this, but I care about you and your well-being enough that I don't necessarily care about that. I think she just said, okay, and then went back in the room. It sounds like maybe you both were in, a bit of state of shock. Yes. I couldn't even make it through point class. And it was, what,

50 minutes an hour, something like that. I remember saying, like, I can't do this to my friend. And I left the point class and I excused myself. One of the program heads who was female, I just remember sitting on a bench with her inside the dance building telling her this. And she sent me home. Did she seem sympathetic to the situation? Yes, I didn't want to go home because I didn't want to miss any more school and I didn't want it to impact my grade. Because the other thing about Western University's ballet department is you only had, I think it was like five absences per semester per class. Do you think that it got back to him that you had told her that, the new girlfriend? Yeah, immediately, I didn't know this until my conversations with Dr. Badera in 22 and then reading the book.

But she immediately went and told him, and they went to the office of the dean of students. I was facing potentially expulsion for telling her that. So due process what? Because I don't know how he got on probation for breaking it, and I would have maybe gotten expelled. The only thing that saved me was that she was unwilling to make a formal statement. To think that my academic future and my position at school was saved was because she was unwilling to get involved in a formal capacity is very scary to me. I just didn't realize that other people were invited in on this conversation. And I was surprised to see that either people

were on my side or people were on her side, which I didn't realize this was like a thing we were taking sides on. People would say like privately, I think you did the right thing in telling her, but I don't want to tell her that. I just want to stay out of it. And then, Somehow it turned into I didn't want Justin's girlfriend to be happy. Instead of me trying to protect her from someone who I knew was violent, dangerous, manipulative, narcissistic, it really impacted our relationship and made me close off to her because I didn't want to give Justin a window into my life. That was the other scary thing. I was worried he would show up to a performance we were both in and there'd be nothing I can do about it because that's her

boyfriend coming to support her, but it's also my rapist coming to antagonize me. When I was a senior in college, a president of a different fraternity contacted me. I don't even think I had his number, so he sought me out and got my number and called me to let me know that Justin was trying to rush his fraternity and that they knew the situation and that there was no way he was going to let him in, but he just wanted to make me aware of the ways that Justin was still moving, which I just think is interesting. I think it also says a lot that multiple men that you spoke with believed you and saw enough of him that they could see it. I know you became the president of your colleges. It's on Us chapter. I'd love to just hear

how you got involved in the advocacy work and what that was like for you. Yes. I first found out about it's on a chapter starting at Western University when I was still going through my Title IX process. So I joined the team my first year. I applied and I interviewed for essentially the survivor support position. And I received that position. And it was a team of all women that first year. We were plotting along as a chapter. But I really feel like when I applied for the presidency and received that position, it's on us kind of took off. And that was my goal with it. I wanted to put it on the map. I wanted everybody to know that we existed so that we could help as many survivors as possible get to the right resources. I feel like students are maybe more likely to connect with

peers than they are with administrators and offices. With it's on us, it's a lower barrier of entry. Because at the end of the day, we're students just like them who care about sexual assault prevention, bystandard intervention, education, and resources. One of it's on us tenants is that sexual assault is not a women's issue and that men should care about sexual assault and be educated about sexual assault as well. The other thing that I did with the team that I think was pretty revolutionary is we could kind of build our teams in the way that we saw fit. So I added positions that were kind of liaison positions for Greek life, for athletics. I brought a lot of men onto the team because I thought it was important. So the first year that I was on the team,

it was all winning. And then through my presidency, we were about half and half men and winning, which was really awesome. We met semi-regularly. We did a lot of tabling, signing the It's on us pledge, which was about believing survivors and bystander interventions. saying something if you see something intervening on a potentially unsafe situation. We did an event with sexual assault nurse examiners. If I couldn't be there, a member of my team was there. We took advantage of every opportunity, every fair. We tried to think of different ways to engage different groups of people on campus. I was recognized by national it's on us as a really strong chapter president. And did you feel like participating in It's on Us was healing to you in some

capacity? Yes and no. It was healing to me to interact with other survivors and be there for them. If they were interested in Title IX or their different options, try to guide them through that with as much insider knowledge as I had accrued, having gone through the experience myself. I tried not to present any option with any sort of bias, which was challenging because I had had such a terrible experience with Title IX. The hardest part was interacting with the Title IX office and all these other administrators who had screwed me over. At the time of my It'sana's presidency, the student whom I had known through student government that was on my hearing committee became president of our student government on campus. And I was still also involved in that. He was my boss for all intensive purposes.

And our student groups got funding through our student government. So that was one of the ways in my capacity as it's on us president that I was having to interact with the president of student government who had heard my testimony about my vaginal laceration. But that's how Isanas had to get funding. So I had to put up with it. The only reason that I became interested in activism and engaged in activism was because I wanted others' experience to be better than mine. I promise you, from the bottom of my heart, I had no other agenda than that. It was not about me. It was not about my self-interest because my shot had come and gone.

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2020. When the world was exploding, it was COVID, there was just a cultural reexamination of all things. And one of the things that was happening on Twitter at the time, and I know it's not called that anymore, but go with me.

At that time, in the geographical area where Western was located, there were these lists that were being published on Twitter of perpetrators in the geographical locale. And someone notified me that my perpetrator's name was on one of these lists on Twitter. Seeing him on the list and knowing I wasn't the one to report him just made me sit up straight. I hadn't had a Twitter account since high school, but I got on a Twitter account. on there so quick and created an account and reached out to this anonymous Twitter account that was producing these lists. As quickly as they were popping up, Twitter was shutting them down because I think the perpetrators were reporting them. I was frantically trying to get into contact with one. And I did. And I was like, hey, my perpetrator is on this list. It's this person.

Can you see if anyone that reported him to you wants to talk to me? And by a stroke of sheer luck, one of them did. And that's how I first became aware that Justin was a serial perpetrator. I was actually able to have a phone call with her that summer. Her rape occurred in December of 2017 before the results of the hearing had come out. So our Title IX process, though, was at the end, was still ongoing, which is pretty incredible. The confidence, the brazenness required to do that when you're still actively under investigation

and still within that probationary period as well. So that was the first one. Then Dr. Badera alerted me to the rest through her book and her research. In Dr. Badera's book, On the Wrong Side, How Universities Protect Perpetrators and Betray Survivors of Sexual Violence, They referred to Allegra as Marissa. They're both pseudonyms, but because we have a Marissa already this season, we're referring to her as Allegra. So if you do read the book and you're wondering who Allegra is in the book, she's Marissa.

This is from Chapter 4, Victim and Villain. And it's page 81 in my copy of the book is where this excerpt comes from. It says, I heard about Allegra for months before. I finally met her in person. Nearly every administrator I had countered had something to say about her and nearly all of it was negative. They met her when she filed a report

about her own sexual assault, but they now knew her as the most vocal advocate for survivors on campus and a persistent thorn in their sides. When they described her, they told the surprisingly consistent story of an attention-seeking girl

who used rape allegations as a networking tool, an investigator called her annoying. The Title IX coordinator saw her as out of touch. Even the lead victim advocate tried to discredit her work, insisting she was controlling, manipulative, and selfish speaking for herself, and hurting others. Everyone assumed I had met her and wanted to ensure I, quote, knew the full story, end quote, before I gave her too much credibility.

and that's why she is the only survivor whom I personally invited to participate in an interview. What is it like to hear that that was the impression she had? It brings tears to my eyes that excerpt, honestly, because to think that someone would engage with the Title IX process and see it through to the extent that I did or at all, that that would be the avenue through which I would seek attention or infamy or want to be known. I don't even have a word for it.

Backwards, hurtful, disgusting, so off base. The Title IX coordinator thinks I'm out of touch. She's out of touch. I also have to say if the head of the victim advocates office thought that I was manipulative and attention seeking as well, you're part of the problem. I think that opinion is more hurtful than any of the others because as a victim advocate, she was in the trenches,

she saw all the shit that was going on at Western and how badly survivors were being treated on a daily basis. And quite frankly, how badly the victim advocates were being treated because they were representing survivors, this tiny, run-down, grungy little office that they were given. The victim advocates were on top of each other in there. It was hard to have more than one victim advocate consulting in there at a time because it was so cramped. It was not easy for me to become an advocate because I had to engage with people who screwed me on a daily basis.

My goal was to make it better for the next survivor because sex crimes, domestic violence, interpersonal violence, these are preventable crimes. and if someone had a misfortune of going through this on my campus, I wanted to make sure that their experience was better, that they got a finding that gave them justice. None of it was about me. My life probably would have been a lot easier if I was in denial, if I had never been able to realize that I had been raped. If I had just let it go or tucked it away, I'm sure it would have impacted me and would have come up later. but my college experience and my access to education was ruined by my rape and then my following experience with the Title IX process. To think that I was doing that for attention is just so off base. I don't even know what to say. And then to like double triple down on it, to have a group think about it, that that's the consensus is wild.

And I also at the time did not know that at all. I did not know that all of those forces were working against me. So I guess in a way, it showed me how strong I am because I was able to still do a lot and work in that space with their low opinions of me. In a way that was oddly empowering, I also think they were thinking about what I said. Maybe they were discounting me at the time, but my presence and their low thoughts of me, what I was advocating for, it got to them. And I don't think that's a bad thing. And I think they had assumed that she had already met me because why wouldn't this attention hound get right in on

the ground floor of a study? This is right up her alley. As she said in that quote you read, I had no idea the study was taking place. And I only participated because she reached out and asked. And what do you recall about meeting her and hearing about the study? She sent me an email. I think she got my contact from the victim advocates office. Being a student advocate, I kind of felt like it was my duty to participate in something like this. I had no way of knowing it was going to turn into a book, which is cool. It was my duty I felt to help out and to uplift the voices of people that were too afraid, too ashamed, to speak up for themselves. I was going to be that voice for them. She sent me an initial email explaining who she was in the study.

And then I responded to that saying like, yeah, sure, I'll be in your study. It was towards the end of semester. I was about to graduate. I kind of wanted to keep it hush that I was participating at all because I was concerned about if they found out that I was doing this and they didn't like it. I was worried they were going to take my degree away, that they wouldn't let me graduate. So I wanted to kind of be in comito. as I engaged with this. We met up in this pretty empty university building in a classroom that she had

presumably reserved or rented out. I didn't really see another soul going there or leaving, which was good. That was kind of comforting because it felt private. She had her questions prepared and we just went through it and that was it. Once I participated in her study, what I told her was kind of hers to use as she saw fit, which is, part of my motivation for wanting to do the podcast is because although I think she did a great job, I want to kind of reclaim what was mine to tell. And I don't want that to come off as negative towards Dr. Baderer because I really adore her so much and have so much respect for her. She sent out her dissertation to all of us who participated in the study. And then she contacted me

in the winter of 2022 to basically say like, hey, the study you participated in is to turning into a book. Here's a bunch of the things that I found out, so you are not blindsided when you get a copy that I will send you, which I thought was really great of her. When I got it in the mail, I stayed up all night. I read my sections first, and then I started reading everybody else's. The hardest thing in reading the book, apparently three other dancers in the dance department came forward and reported that Justin had perpetrated some sort of sexual assault against them. The administrator in the dance department, whom they reported to, brought it to the office of the dean of students. But because they were so biased against me and thought so poorly of me, they did not

report those assaults through the proper channels. They didn't show up on the Cleary report because they thought that my self-interest, my hatred, my vendetta against Justin was so strong that I had put these women up to accusing him. And it was all a big conspiracy that I had manufactured. Meanwhile, the truth is, I had no idea that he had done that. The last other victim of Justin that I found out about was also through Dr. Bedera. she was apparently involved in Greek life, reported to the office of fraternity and sorority life on campus. They're the governing bodies of the sororities and fraternities, but then there are like actual adults with completed diplomas and sometimes master degrees that run the Greek office to help the students run Greek life. The Greek office knew that he was my perpetrator.

And so they went to the office of the dean of students and they were like, hey, we know. know about these other assaults and you didn't report them to Cleary, you didn't go through the proper channels and now we have another one. And I don't know if anything ever came of that. I had no idea that those women even existed. It makes me shudder to think how the rumors and heat that I took when Justin started dating my classmate from everybody, I'm sure those other victims were privy to those conversations as well, and I can't imagine how much it hurt them and made them feel small and shrink into themselves as well. If you or someone you know has ever tried to quit nicotine or even just cut back, you know

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In fact, none of Justin's other victims managed to clear all the new barriers to opening a second investigation against him. Justin, however, felt supported by Western University. When asked if there was anything he wanted to say to the administration who handled his case, he said simply, quote, you can tell them I said good job, end quote. While Western University staff treated Allegra like an unusually difficult victim, the only atypical thing about her case was her unwillingness to quietly accept its outcome. The challenges Allegra faced were common to most survivors, as were the advantages given to perpetrators like Justin.

The Title IX process is designed to ensure perpetrators and men specifically remain on campus regardless of the threat they pose to other students. I did not know that she had spoken with Justin. It kind of surprised me that he would be willing to participate in an interview. You would think that perpetrators of sexual assault would be like, oh, I got away with it. I'm not going to dwell on this aspect of my life, but that couldn't have been more untrue come to find out with Justin. It was a badge of honor for him almost. It was wild reading about her interview and what she gathered from Justin in his interview. It makes your skin crawl.

Before he had even learned of the Title IX investigation, he had texted at least 50 people that weekend of the assault, including your friends and former roommates, probing for negative stories about you and weaving into them his narrative about how she was, quote, psycho, a word he used over 30 times in our 100-minute interview with Dr. Baderer. I had no idea he contacted that many people, but that tells me that he knew he did wrong. His advocate that worked with him, whom Dr. Baderer referred to as Natalie, presented herself as somebody who was about consent and feminism. But it really seems like she enabled Justin throughout this process. Justin is the perpetrator that Dr. Baderer said, seemed to enjoy the hearing process and hearing you cross-examined.

Yes. He also claimed in his interview with her that. that the allegations had ruined his life, but then he also talks about enjoying the process and that it was something that he even brought up right away with women now when he's dating. I'd love for him to show me how it ruined his life. He graduated from Western with his degree and a clean record,

and that he used his experience in Title IX and being, quote unquote, wrongfully accused as a way to pick up other women. It's just the nastiest, most base, dirty, disgusting, filthy thing you could do. He got all those perks and academic accommodations, and it's my understanding that he utilized them more than I did, because he could, not because you actually needed anything. Using it to lull women into a false sense of security on dates,

that didn't ruin your life, going on to perpetrate, what, five more times that I know about? Didn't seem to really slow you down. You've been gainfully employed from what I can tell. How did it ruin your life? What did you learn about the handling through the university through reading Dr. Baderer's book that you didn't know about before? I did not know that perpetrators or respondents were provided an advocate,

especially in Justin's case. I knew that he was guilty and that he did rape me. So why on earth does a rapist need an advocate? It did not even occur to me that he would be provided with one, let alone that she would be sent the day of the Greek barbecue. That was the woman from the office of the Dean of Students that showed up at the Greek barbecue. But to me, at that time, she was just a lady from the Dean of Students' office. If his advocate was sent, why wasn't my advocate sent?

Like if we're going to do this whole due process thing, if we're going to go tit for tat, it just puts a different color of lens through which to see everything. It also seemed from Dr. Baderer's writing that the Title IX office was very charmed by him and his, what I took to be erratic emotional behavior in their office and kind of playing on those gender stereotypes that if a man is emotional, that must mean. and he's sensitive and he couldn't be a rapist. Justin is the ultimate manipulator. He knew what he was doing, and he did it well. Did you make contact with Dr. Badera after you read the book? Yes. Do you recall what that conversation was like

or what your main emotional takeaways were from this becoming public? Dr. Badera is a gem against someone I have tremendous respect for. She has always treated me with kindness and respect. and put clinical terms with the experiences that I've shared with her, which has helped me know that I'm not alone and I'm not crazy. There was so much going on that I was not privy to, and I would have acted differently had I known. So it was great to have her support.

Also, in the guilt that I felt, even though I went to the ends of the earth with my case and tried to do so for others, it was still really hard to hear, and it's really hard to be the first known victim of a serial perpetrator, which is what I am. The book was also hard to read from the sense that I knew what was coming to an extent because she had warned me about my own story. My case was one of the earlier cases general timeline-wise that was featured in the book.

So to hear that all this crap and the utter mistreatment of these other women on my campus happened after me. And while I was being a thorn in their side was also really hard to hear and accept. Nayayers of the book don't want to believe that it could be the truth because it's so awful, because we all were treated so, so poorly. And our lives were the ones that were ruined. Another thing that I have asked Dr. Padera about is I wanted to know if the other survivors wanted to talk, if we maybe wanted to do like a support group or something. None of the other women in the book want to engage with me, which is totally fine. Even though I've never met them, I don't know who they are.

I feel solidarity and sisterhood through the women that are on the pages of the book just like me. And I hope they're doing okay. Western University, you should be so ashamed. of yourselves. I am nothing to be embarrassed about because I told the truth and did the best that I could. And I was a 19, 20, 21, 22 year old woman, very young coming up against this insurmountable system and bureaucracy and backwards way of thinking and living. I wish I could have done more, but I don't think I could have done anymore with the system that I was forced to work in. Could you explain to listeners a bit about how you and I became connected and what made you

decide to speak out on the podcast? I've been a long time listener if something was wrong since season one, depending on the season of my life, it wasn't the easiest content to engage with, given my background. But I'm a big admirer of yours as well and have a great respect for what you do, elevating the survivor voice in a credible way, I think, is. really important and valuable and necessary in this world that we live in. I was listening to the previous season about these boarding schools. Then I saw that the preview for season 25 was coming out. And so I pressed play because it came up in my feed. And immediately I recognized Dr.

Baderas voice. And I was like, oh man, they're doing Title IX. I got to get involved in this if I can. So I actually reached out to Dr. Baderer. I was like, hey, I heard your voice on something was wrong. Season 25 preview. I didn't even have to check the caption. I knew it was you. And she was like, yeah, I did get interviewed. And I was like, can you help me get in contact with their team?

And she was like, I know that they're already almost wrapping on their recording. And so I very desperately was emailing Instagram messaging and filling out your intake form on your website to try to get a chance to come talk to you. And I imagine it had to be kind of ironic given that you listen to the show and then to hear this coming on. It's like worlds colliding, so to speak. Yeah, well, I'm really glad that someone, especially someone who I think has such great journalistic integrity, it's you. Thank you. Is doing something on Title IX because I really feel like this is not talked about very much. My perception before college was that the era of colleges ignoring sexual assault was over with the release of the film The Hunting Ground. Those

survivors in that documentary are my idols. I think they are so amazing, so brave. And I think that's honestly another reason that I was attracted to advocacy was remembering the women in the hunting ground and how they banned together because they were wronged so horribly by their universities. This was a period where Title IX and universities, the process was not as formalized and they were really doing everything they could to not even investigate vicious rapes. Those ladies really inspired me to get involved in advocacy, reflecting and getting ready to record this podcast, I realized I don't really connect with college friends. You know, I have my sororities sisters on social media. I'll comment or like things from time to time. But because of my experience

with sexual assault and with Title IX, it is just too traumatic for me to engage with any relationships and friendships from that collegiate period of time in my life. I haven't really been back to the state where Western is located, even though several of my sisters live there and have gotten married there and I've been invited. I just cannot go back. All the things that I had set out that I wanted from a sorority when I went through recruitment to have those lifelong friendships to be bridesmaids and each other's weddings, to see their families grow up alongside mine. None of that has happened because of this. The day after I graduated, I moved and never looked back. And it makes me sad because it's not any of these sorority sisters or other friends' fault that I can't really engage with them.

I just can't go back to that space. Even though those people weren't part of the trauma or, if anything, they were supportive and helpful, like the sister, for example, who took the screenshots of Justin's messages with a different device, I missed her wedding. And that's really sad for me because she supported me and was such a great friend to me. and I wanted to be there for her. And this is something that was incredibly happy. She's happily married. Her husband's great, that I just couldn't do it. And that sucks.

It's so unfortunate that Justin still has a hand in my life in that way. Are there any steps or things that you've been able to do to sort of help alleviate some of that pain? Well, I've been through a lot of therapy, a lot of different types of therapy. Who's to say that I won't continue to do those things? and try to take those strides. But I guess it's just not a top of the list thing

to be able to go back to that state. By closing that door, I've been able to be more functional on a day-to-date basis. I had a lot of sensory issues. Once I graduated in a few years after the assault, I was having a lot of problems with my neck area. I don't wear necklaces,

turtlenecks are high-necked things. I don't really like things on my neck at all. The other thing that was really problematic for me is I was having kind of a phantom pain at the laceration site in my general area. For years, I was suffering with that. I would feel almost the sting of a paper cut, and it was when I got triggered or when I felt anxious. Then that cortisol spike was leading me to have continual issues with things like urinary tract

infections, bacterial vaginosis. Basically, my own stress levels was causing me to become infected and unbalanced. So I end up being referred to a pelvic pain specialist. I think she had a hard time and the practitioners in her office had a hard time saying what's going on for you is really real and very visceral, but it is a somatic response. Physically, there is no laceration anymore and there hasn't. then since right after the assault. The other thing that I would say really helped with the somatic issues that I was experiencing

was EMDR therapy. I know I said before that Justin ruined my life and in some ways he did, but I'm still here. I'm still alive. I'm still doing what I love to do with the right resources, with therapy. It is possible for you to live a fulfilling life after sexual assault, after rape, after domestic violence. It's not an easy road, but you can get there. If my story resonates with you, reach out to somebody because you don't need to live in shame and silence. You deserve help and support for what you're experiencing. I can't thank you enough for being willing to reach out

and speak with us. And I'm just so thankful that our paths crossed the way that they did and that we were able to include you in the season. Next time on something was wrong. When the second meeting with the lawyers was over as we were leaving the room, my teammates were in my coach's office at the time. I remember saying to one of my teammates, this is what's happening. I didn't do it, but this is a situation that I'm in. And that pretty quickly got out.

I remember saying to my coach, if this gets out, the goal, the goal, the goal, the girls will never forgive me. And I was 100% correct in that feeling. Thank you so much to each and every survivor and guest for sharing their experiences with us. And thank you for listening. Something Was Wrong is a broken cycle media production created and executively produced by Tiffany Reese. Thank you endlessly to our team. Associate producer, Amy B. Chessler, social media marketing manager Lauren Barkman, graphic artist Sarah Stewart, and audio engineers Becca High and Stephen Wack, Marissa and Travis at WME, Audio Boom, and our legal and security partners. Thank you so much to the incredibly talented Abiyomi Lewis for this season's gorgeous cover of Gladrag's original song,

You Think You, from their album Wonder Under. Thank you to music producer Janice J. Pachepichel. for their work on this cover recorded at the Grill Studios in Emoryville, California. Find all artists' socials linked in the episode notes to support and hear more. If you'd like to share your story with us, please head to Something Was Wrong.com. If you would like to help support the show, you can subscribe and listen ad-free on Apple Podcasts, purchase a sticker from our sticker shop at brokencyclemedia.com, share the podcast with a loved one, or leave us a review. Want to stay up to date with us?

Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Something Was Wrong podcast. As always, thank you so much for listening. Until next time, stay safe, friends.