Something Was Wrong - S26 Ep14: BTS with BCM Fall 2026

Episode Date: September 17, 2026

*Content Warning: abduction, domestic violence, intimate partner violence, gun violence, and murder.Free + Confidential Resources + Safety Tips: somethingwaswrong.com/resources   SWW Sticker Shop!: https://brokencyclemedia.com/sticker-shop SWW S26 Theme Song & Artwork: The S26 cover art is by the Amazing Sara Stewart instagram.com/okaynotgreat/  Follow Something Was Wrong: Website: somethingwaswrong.com  IG: instagram.com/somethingwaswrongpodcast TikTok: tiktok.com/@somethingwaswrongpodcast  Follow Tiffany Reese: Website: tiffanyreese.me  IG: instagram.com/lookieboo Follow What Came Next: WCN featuring Jenn Holman: https://podcasts.apple.com/ee/podcast/jenn-holman-there-is-a-softer-life/id1674051643?i=1000720192079 WCN featuring Koa Johnson: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/koa-johnson-hulus-the-housewife-the-shah/id1674051643?i=1000602601088 IG: instagram.com/whatcamenext_podcast Follow Amy B. Chesler: IG: instagram.com/amybchesler TikTok: tiktok.com/@amybchesler FB: https://www.facebook.com/AmyBChesler/ ‘Don’t Go Home’ via Toxic on HBO MAX: https://www.hbomax.com/show/33977981-2e30-45d2-98c6-3145f9c40b33 Chris Fleming on YouTube: The Snacks at Trader Joe’s that Only Women Can See: https://youtu.be/eXXYfigdfw0?si=OgM1YPAbRe3aT8D1 Renegade Craft Fairs: Renegade Craft Fair website: https://www.renegadecraft.com/

If you love Something Was Wrong and you'd like to help support the show, become a community contributor on Apple Podcasts, or purchase a sticker from our shop at brokencyclemedia.com. Thank you so much. Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences and includes topics that can be upsetting, so please listen with care. All names in this chapter have been changed for anonymity purposes.

Opinions expressed by the guests of the show are their own and don't necessarily represent the views of Broken Cycle Media. sources and resources can be found in the episode notes this podcast and any linked materials or opinion should not be misconstrued as a substitution for legal or medical advice if you're a survivor looking for resources please visit something was wrong dot com slash resources thank you so much hello hello best friend i am so excited to be bringing another behind the scenes btsm with bcm episode today with my co-producer Best friend, life guru. You play so many roles. Amy B. Chesler, thank you for coming back on and hanging out today. Thank you so much for having me.

I'm so excited. I love these episodes so much. And I'm excited that the listeners do. I know, like, they're not for everybody, but we do get such a strong response from our dedicated listeners who are first to download the episodes and are really, like, up-to-date and keyed in on what we're talking about and what's going on. we've gotten so much feedback. So thank you. Shout out to our weekly tuning and baddies.

Totally understand if it's not for everybody, but for those who enjoy it, we're excited to hang out with you today. And don't worry, we have chapter three of season 26 coming to your feed in a few short weeks. So if you're on the lookout for new content to listen in the meantime, you should definitely go to listen to Amy's show, what came next. It's incredible. How many episodes do you have now, Amy? We're about to hit 200. Over six million downloads. Yeah, we're hitting like 6.15 now or stuff like that. That was our goal for a bit.

We were watching it get close and we finally made it. Thank you everybody who has contributed to listen or many more to that 6 million. It's incredible. Well, I'm so thankful to have any opportunity to hang out with you and chat. I've been looking forward to this. We're recording on a Friday. So happy Friday. I'd love to start with just like, how the hell are you?

and we don't mean to be like vague booking you guys, but you can only share certain things at certain times. But Amy's got so much exciting stuff going on that she can share and can't share yet. But I'd love to hear how everything's going. You know, what's funny is I can't fake the funk ever. So whenever anybody asks me in real life, how are you? I just say, I am. And that's not to say I'm bad or good.

Usually I'm very good. But usually I also feel like I am just persisting making it through the day. You're busy. Yes. You wear so many hats and you do so much for so many people. Thank you. I love you. Love you. Yeah. Life is just busy. You know, school just started for the kiddos. I have an eighth grader and a fifth grader. So both of them are like finishing up their respective schools. Just a really big transitionary time. Lots of things going on for them that makes my life busier and my life is already busy. So it's been crazy. And then obviously the world around us. is just wild as usual. I mean, that's a whole other podcast. Yeah, that's how I am.

Did I answer? I don't know how I am. You're like, I'm a lot of things. Let's talk about your updates first. Toxic. Yes. So the week that this episode airs, I think it'll be like two days a day after the toxic episode that you participated in is airing.

Can you tell us about that? And the origins and how this all came to be. Yeah, that was a very exciting thing to be a part of and to have the opportunity to be amplified by HBO Max has a show called Toxic. I believe it also airs on investigation discovery, IDTV, and it's hosted by a journalist Elizabeth Chambers. And the show highlights the unfolding of toxic relationships and the impact, ultimately. I heard from the team a while ago. They had said, we're starting up season two. Would you be interested? And we had started the talks about it. And then in the process, we kind of all realized it was really important to include someone that has yet to be included in any of these projects that I've done. The only place that this woman has shared her story before is actually on what came next. And that is Jen Holman. And the episode is called There Is a Softer Life.

Jen is actually my brother's ex-girlfriend. I often talk about the link between domestically violent behavior in a origin home and in intimate partner of relationships later in a life. I see domestic violence as a problem across a lifespan. So her story being shared is really important to me because, first of all, she's a survivor who wants to share her story. So she deserves the amplification. But also, I think that it adds another layer to our story. It proves and validates a lot of what we went through. And it brings a whole other kind of perspective to the terror. My brother reigned over everybody in his life. Absolutely. When we recorded together season seven on something was wrong, your relationship with her was at a different

place. Can you talk a little bit about how that evolution came to be and how you guys ended up deciding to record that what came next episode? Yeah. Actually, it's been really interesting. Jen and I really didn't have a relationship outside of her relationship with my brother. She was my brother's ex-girlfriend at the time of my mom's murder. They were not together. And that was in 2007. So this was before social media and everything. So I didn't have contact with her after that. And then years later with social media, you know, obviously I guess we had found each other at some point and not really exchanged many words, to be honest, just added each other on Facebook. And that was that. our interaction all those years had been really limited after what came next started.

I reached out to her and I said, would you be interested in sharing your story as a survivor of my brother on what came next? And she had said she thought about reaching out to me before. I don't want to speak for her, but she does speak in the episode about how she kind of felt like it was my mom's story, my story, and she didn't want to impose herself. And I said I had never really seen it like that. Because I've kind of felt for the last 18 years, like, I've carried the burden of illuminating the world on my brother's abuse. So to have someone else join that journey with me is meaningful. And it's interesting because her and my mom had a really layered relationship. The episode of what came next is pretty frank.

And so is the episode of toxic. And I think it's just a really interesting picture because something else I talk about is that my mom really, you know, as much as people say she Aiden abetted my brother. on the other side of the coin, she knew his behavior was not okay, and she was kind of open with Jen about that. Also, your mom called the police so many times. The police came out, how many times? An obscene amount.

She did reach out for help. So many systems failed her. Yeah. Those episodes, it's hard. Sometimes I watch them. Sometimes I don't. They include things like the 911 call. I know that guttural scream without hearing it again.

So I'm not sure I'll watch it, but I do encourage people, if they're interested in if they watch Toxic, September 15th, it does premiere. It is season two, episode one of Toxic. Wow. What does it feel like to have something come from your original reporting on your own story? When you put it that way, wow. I guess I hadn't quite framed it that way. It is interesting. It's heartbreaking. It feels a very necessary story to tell. I think Jen is honored. She is looking forward to the release of the episode. I think that that's what is most important.

It's a lot to think about. It's so personal. And also, folks can obviously go check out the What Came Next episode and listen to that first, too, if they want before they check out the episode and we'll link to what we can in the episode notes. But definitely please go show some love and support to the survivors. We are supportive of you, Amy. We are here for you. And thank you.

Proud of you, it takes a lot. It's really brave and it's really hard. It's also, I imagine, validating to continue to expand the public's understanding of the evidence of the case overall, given that they also included some of the original law enforcement that haven't spoken publicly before that are going to be in that episode as well. Yes. I think it also provides more clarity. There's never been questions for me, but people have been somewhat speculative in certain areas. and I don't think there's anything that hasn't been kind of explored at this juncture now that this piece is out.

Yeah. That is the one thing I am most looking forward to with this episode releasing. I've mentioned it a lot on what came next and just the impact of sharing our story and being received by the public. One of the most harmful things that people can say when they receive my story is that they think I was a part of my mom's murder. And I talk about that a lot and that how much it affects me. But with the release of this episode, it becomes deeply clear to ever. anyone who consumes this story, just how much this was entirely my brother's actions. And I believe no question should have been there, to be honest, because I believe in believing

survivors and seeing the proof that obviously the police must have had. However, it is deeply validating. I will say the one thing that always makes me nervous is that once you put words out there in the public, you're always rethinking your words. And so I'm like, what did I say? Did I say that? How did I say it? I hope it doesn't sound like this.

It's the public speaking element. of it. Something important for listeners to keep in mind when they're listening to Survivors share on our shows as well is keep in mind not only is it really traumatic and emotional and dynamic. A lot of the things we're talking about, it's really vulnerable. But most survivors are not public speakers. They're not media trained people. They're nervous. And so that's why sometimes you'll see commentary like, this person didn't seem sad. And it's like, well, you're not in that moment, right? You're recalling it. You're in like a studio. or your public speaking, you're trying to make sure you touch on everything that feels important for you so that you'll be believed. And it's so dynamic. And that's why we do everything we can

to make folks comfortable, to take breaks, to break things up as they need, to allow them to record where they feel comfortable, all these things we can do to try and set people up for success. Public speaking is still nerve-wracking. It is important to remember the humanity elements when we're taking in stories and hearing survivors or even just watching the news and things. A hundred percent. And I will say as a teacher, I was trained to speak in front of a crowd and sort of media trained at times. And I still feel those ways because it's when I'm talking about the rawest moments of our lives too. Even if they have exa training and Y amount of experience, they can still be right back in that moment of screaming that scream or seeing that image and we can't

judge how people are sharing their trauma. They're not just thinking about their trauma. They're thinking about how it's going to be perceived. Yes. Our society shits on survivors constantly. Open the comment section of any article. For everything. For anything ever for the end of time.

And it's really gotten worse. Me too. The movement and where we were going, it was like a semblance of hope. And even when the show first started and how people acted. versus how people act now. Our community is very different in the way that we approach digesting these things. I don't know why you'd be here if that wasn't your vibe. But just in general, news articles or commentary on anything, you can just see the rise of

fascism, the patriarchy. Lack of empathy. People feel emboldened. Deeply. And I will not forget. We were in Texas for the event we did a while back at South by Southwest. I asked somebody if I could give them a hug. It was like some random dude. I said, can I give you a hug? And he said, oh, we don't have to ask anymore. And it was like right after Trump had been reelected. And I was like, oh, wow, that's really how some people are moving right now. So it is already always hard for people to speak out, especially when they're from marginalized communities, especially when the odds are stacked against them or there's power dynamics, etc. But also like anybody who's speaking out is a survivor right? now within this climate in the States, it takes so much bravery and willingness to put yourself

out there because you know, no matter what you say, how you say it, what you do, how you word it, there are going to be these bots, trolls, and emboldened in cells that are going to come along with their hot takes, completely inaccurate, horrific comments that are so harmful. It's really upsetting and hard to see, obviously. I know that there are so many good people out there with beautiful, empathetic hearts and I still have hope that even those people who feel a little lost could certainly expand their empathy and understanding and education. I hope that for those people, but it's just really hard when the culture also is working against us. I'd like to thank Osea for sponsoring

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You have another project that you worked on. Can you tell us anything about the other project you've been working on yet? What I can share is that I'm also a part of another really exciting project. Next year, maybe, you'll be able to tell us more? By the end of the year, I'll probably have some room to share a lot more. But she's taping some really cool stuff. Can we say that? I think I can say that. Once it's out, they'll be like, please talk about it.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. So we will definitely have more to come there, but it's very exciting for Amy. Please send her all your good vibes and thoughts. I will say it feels painful to be so vague, but it will be worth the way, I promise. It's exciting. We're all happy for Amy, and we're going to know more soon.

So that's all we really need to know. So yeah, follow along. Amazing. When it comes to what came next, I'd love to hear what you've been working on and anything that the listeners might be interested in hearing more about. Thank you. Something really exciting is that we're about to hit 200 episodes, which feels like such a huge feat. Because it is. There are 52 weeks in a year. We are getting

to like four years basically of content. Wow. It keeps flowing my mind that it's 2026. It's September, but like that's still alarming for me. It's like one of those cliche things you hear as a kid, you're like, man, these fucking adults say that shit a lot. But then when you become one, you're Like, I'd just be feeling that shit a lot. The days are long and the years are short. Seriously. But anyway. I mean, what a feat.

It feels amazing to be able to say that. And then to say that we hit 6 million downloads. I think that sometimes the numbers can get skewed in like the perception of podcast downloads. Six million downloads is a feat that not many podcasts make. In the grand scheme of podcasts, there are a lot of podcasts out there. So it's huge and it feels so deeply necessary to say thank you to the guests who have been a part of making those 200 episodes, to you for being a part of those 200 episodes, to Stephen for being the editor of those 200 episodes, and to the listeners for giving us those 6 million downloads.

And plus, because it's beyond that now, we hit that while you were in Portugal. What a ride it has been. I feel like it has linked me to so many incredible guests. I say this all the time, but I have dreams sometimes, like literal dreams while I'm sleeping, where I'm in a room full of all the what came next guests. Like I get to have some sort of big event where they're all with me. And that's a literal dream, but also like a pie in the sky dream. But things to look forward to is we talk about this a lot in like our production meetings.

I am consistently mind blown at the fact that we can have ever. episodes where we cover a topic we've never covered before in 200 episodes, even though we very rarely re-air an episode or do an update episode. A lot of those 200 are new episodes or unique episodes. And it's just really eye-opening. And also at the same time, if two truths can be true, heartbreaking and uplifting, that all these people have joined us in our cause on this platform. Yeah. Well, there is joy and connection. And there is. is joy in overcoming and there is joy in helping others. It's dynamic and layered and complex, as is the human condition. Yeah. When I meet people, they're like, oh, what do you do? Or if they talk

about the podcast or whatever, the way I summarize it is often like it's true crime self-help, which is a normal pairing. I understand. But it has those elements, almost every episode, because you're listening to someone who's navigated something really hard and they're sharing how they got through it and what came next on the other side and the reality so people can learn. Well, and we get to be survivors. Not everybody makes it out. And we also speak for those who don't make it out. And so it is a privilege. It is a privilege to fight. I wanted to hear all your updates first. There's a lot of exciting going on amidst all the chaos. Thank you for listening. I'm your biggest fan. I know you are. And I have to say, I just want to share with the listeners. I know for a million,

reasons. You show me you love me in all the ways and I love you so deeply for who you are and the way you love me. Same. But I will say an example of the loudest ways you love me is like you're the most thoughtful gift giver ever. And the other day I like open up my mailbox because I have so many things that are going on and exciting events and all this stuff I'm attending. My most thoughtful bestie sent me a package. Well, first of all, let me take you. through the cover, covered in beautiful, adorable stickers. It looks like a package from a sixth grader on the outside because that's just my aesthetic. I love it.

And like your flowery, beautiful writing is on it. Thank you. I always tell my kids, I don't feel like I get enough credit for my handwriting. It's the only way I feel that I'm being neglected in life. It's beautiful. It's just the whole package. Then I open it up and see that it is filled to the brim with all the accessories a woman could ever need a few purses, wallet, passport holder, glasses, earrings. I love you. I had fun doing it.

You're my muse, baby. You're the best. The one thing I was most excited about was I got this handmade bag on the streets in Portugal. And this woman handmade, I've never seen crochet like this. It's like in the shape of a seashell. And I saw it. And my daughter was instantly like, oh, that looks like something you would love. And she said it was the last one that she had at the time. It's very unique to not only is it kind of shaped like a shell, but the handle, it's so perfect. It could go to the beach. It could go to a fancy event. It could go to a wedding. We're going to have to post a pick of this. You guys are going to love it. It's so cute. And it's so Amy, because we're both kind of like mid-century, kitsy if Jennifer Tilly was not on a Jennifer Tilly budget.

Yeah, I love a statement piece purse. We love Betsy Johnson. We have similar style. You're not afraid to have fun. and those are the most fun people for me to shop for. You're not afraid of a shell-shaped bag or a butterfly pair of shades or something. Although I may lose a shade pair to a child, she went immediately into the box and snatched them. And I was like, so those are mine. And she was like, we're going to share them.

Everything gets stolen by Ruby now. Just yesterday, they had friends over and I'm like, are you wearing my shirt right now? And they just will be like, what? I've never had a sister. So I guess this is what it feels like. Sam, both of my kids and I are all in the same shoe size. Stop.

It's been funny because we all swap shoes all the time. And it's like the greatest joy I have because now I don't have like only my shoes. I have all theirs. Amazing. It's pretty fun. And now they have mine. Well, I love you and I'm so excited for you. Thank you.

I appreciate you saying that. But honestly, like I always wanted a best friend. And I've definitely had people in my life. I felt really close to, but it's easy to love you. And that's what I always tell you when you get nervous about things, whatever. I'm like, just be yourself because you're literally so lovable. I love how naturally our friendship has come and how dynamic it is. Even when we think differently or something, we're still able to always like work through it with love.

And that just feels so rare in life. Mm-hmm. Oh, no, I'm getting emotional. I love you, girl. I love you so much. Okay. So now, how are you? you doing? I love catching up and it's nice because we genuinely don't always have a lot of time to

catch up, Amy and I, because we're always in like work mode. What's going on? How are the kids? Yada, yada, yada. Like, how are you surviving and all that kind of stuff? Right? Are you good? It's just a lot. So I'm doing well. I was thinking back to the last time we recorded kind of behind the scenes and I was just about to go to the Webbies. It was awesome. It was Mother's Day weekend. So the whole family got to go. it was definitely amazing to be back in New York. I love New York. The energy there is unmatched. So we had been talking about SNL and all that stuff. When we were recording the behind the scenes episode, I reached out to my agents and I was like, what are the chances that you could get me to S&L while I'm in New York? And they were like, it's one of the hardest things, basically. I'm

obviously paraphrasing here, like, but we'll certainly try, because I never ask them for stuff like this. I don't even think to ask for stuff like that, but I was like, if anybody could do it, it would be these people. So shout out Marissa and Travis at WME. Merissa is instantly like, oh my God, it's Noah Kahn performing too. So like, good luck to you, basically. And it was Matt Damon, and it was Mother's Day weekend, which is when a lot of the cast family come in to 10. to see the show and visit their kids and stuff. They were like, it's going to be real tough, but we'll try. They were talking about the guests, and I was like, those guests sound amazing,

but honestly, I'm such an S&L nerd. I would go for anything. Just tell me when and where, kind of a thing. And so I found out while I was there, I actually had tickets to go to Hamilton. No disrespect to Hamilton. I found out, I think that morning, maybe the day before, that they fucking did it. I was like so blown away. I was freaking out. And Lauren on the last behind the scenes episode had told us about Noah Kahn. And if you remember, I was like, I don't know who that is, which feels so embarrassing now because I love him so much. That's why I was like, oh, this is actually so perfect. I had kept hearing the name, the Great Divide, I think, had just probably released. And that's why he's also on SNL that week. I'm like, should I listen to his music before? I had been meaning to listen to it. But when I listen to new artists, especially if I feel like it's going to be. be really good. I like to have a moment with it and have the time to like really sit down and take it in.

But then I was like, wow, how cool would it kind of be if I don't listen? And my first ever listening experience of him is just live at fucking S&L. I like made that decision. And so my family was like, oh, you're ditching us to go to S&L. And I'm like, yeah. And they loved Hamilton. So they were happy with their choices as well. But it's such an interesting experience. And I'm going to talk a little bit about it because if there's folks that are curious and they haven't gone, it's something people go on waitless for for years. It's a whole lottery thing. And what people have to go through to do it, it's really admirable, honestly, the dedication that it takes. They give you an address and then you go in a building and then you go through security and then you're escorted and then you go through

security number two and then you stand in this room and then people come out and take you in groups. It's at 30 Rock at this iconic place. And it reminded me of the show. 30 Rock because there's like a page person and you're like assigned to them. They take you back in all these groups and they tell you if you take your phone out, you're going to be out of here so many times. So this was actually for the dress rehearsal. My understanding is they still tape the dress rehearsal. There's an audience. But in case, God forbid, there was like a power outage or something happens where they have to switch from the live footage of the actual live episode. There's like a backup. up. So then you wait there and it was surreal. They have like these big screens and they're showing

video clips of all these iconic people like Chris Farley and Chris Rock and Tina Faye and Amy Poehler. Then they take you back in different groups to this other room and then they threaten you again about your phones. They actually were, I think we're serving drinks and stuff. I was too nervous to do anything and I was by myself. So I was just really taking everything in and just kind of sitting and chilling. There's a DJ like blasting music. They're really trying to get you excited and stuff. It could have been silent and I would have been shaking. I was so excited. And then they take you in. You go in in groups. Then there's like a little bit of warm up and then it just fucking begins. It was so surreal and I'm like I'm at S&L right now. Like this is crazy and Matt Damon was great.

Then Noah Kahn came on. The first song he played was The Great Divide. People were so excited in the audience for Noah Kahn. Honestly, I'm so glad that I, like, saved that and gave myself that experience because it was truly magical. And now I'm absolutely obsessed with his catalog. We're going to see him in January at at the Blue Fest in Mexico. And Lauren's going, the three of us, it's full circle moment. Just so cool. And then the Webbies were after that. And I got to see the Stranger Things musical on Broadway. So it was just really surreal, exciting, definitely the most dynamic Mother's Day weekend of my life. and really cool to get to experience that with the whole family, and it was dope. I love New York. More recently, I've talked about it before, the show and the work that we're doing with survivors,

the investigations, the fact-checking, all the things that I've got going on for me right now, just my bandwidth. I'm at max capacity most of the time. And so even when other projects have come up, I've been just kind of prioritizing my bandwidth right now. And my kids are getting older. they're getting ready to go to college. My youngest just started junior high school. It's just like a really special time and I really want to be on the front lines of their life. Not to say that people that are working more aren't doing that, but this is just for me what I need to focus on and what's best for me. So that's been really great. More recently, we just went to Portugal. We didn't think we were going to be doing another family trip so soon after New York. But I have to.

had points and I just found out that points are a thing. And I didn't know I like had been building points on this card that we've had forever. So I was like, oh shit, maybe we should do something really cool. And again, with the kids getting older and stuff, you know, these are our last few summers that we really have them at home and it's just going to be different as they continue to evolve and not necessarily in a bad way, but I just want to cherish it. So we all got our passports and it was such a beautiful country and culture. Thank you so much Portugal for having me. I tried to learn a little Portuguese. I only learned maybe 10 phrases, but the majority of people we met spoke many languages. Just a beautiful place. So much inspiration can be drawn from their people's uprising that they've

had away from fascism and having a dictator right around 50 years ago. It was beautiful, magical place cannot recommend enough and also incredibly safe from a crime perspective. So that was really cool and we never could afford to travel when the kids were younger. And so like going to Puerto Rico last summer was our first opportunity to do something like that. And traveling is obviously such a luxury no matter who you are, not only to be able to step away from work, but to afford the cost. But as a family, the way we've been able to like accomplish something to get. as a team, especially traveling internationally, even going through like TSA and customs and stuff or like planning and what are we going to do and what are we going to see. I feel like brought us together

in some unique ways that I'm just really thankful for to have that time together, whether or not we were going out of the country or not actually scheduling that time and being away from our phones and focused on being together is such a privilege and a really special thing. And so that's the highlight of my personal life right now. And it feels really good. And also just like getting to watch you do so many exciting things. And to see you having this moment, it honestly couldn't make me happier. I think in the last few years, as the show grew and all the things that we've overcome and dealt with behind the scenes as well, I feel like this year I've really been able to come into much more of a place of gratitude, feeling more grounded. When you're burnt,

out in things or you've been operating from a certain place for a long time, it's hard to like take stock of everything that you have that's going well and that you've got in life. And so for me, I just realized I had to readjust my priorities and make time for the things that are most precious. I'm so glad for the years and the things that I got to do on the show and everything. And I wouldn't necessarily change anything. But it was definitely like wearing on me as a person and I really needed to focus more on myself and taking care of myself and being with my family and treasuring that. And so for me right now, that's just what's best. So that's how I'm doing. The season has been such an honor to work on. I know you feel the same ABC. We're going to

come up on chapter three here shortly. And I know we talked about that previously at the end of chapter two. it's a really dynamic chapter and Aaron, the survivor at the center of it is really brave and digging into a lot of topics that to your earlier point we've never explored. As a male survivor and hearing from a lot of male survivors in this next chapter, I think it's going to provide a lot of nuance and conversation and hopefully support for what they've been through. And so I'm just so grateful that we get to do what we do. I just am especially thankful for that this year and really trying to take stock of the privilege that it is.

Absolutely. It feels like such a deep honor to be able to broach topics that we haven't necessarily been able to cover quite yet. But at the same time, Chapter 3 also feels so classic something was wrong. It's interesting that it can have that duality at the same time. It'll be a very impactful chapter for the listeners to hear. I haven't told you this. I may fly out there next week because there's been some continued updates and discoveries and it's the best way to get people to go on the record and kind of explore some elements

further. There's a lot of unknowns and harm trying to untangle so many lies and deceptions that are rooted in truth that it's really dynamic and has certainly taken a while behind the scenes. several of the stories that we worked on for this season have been long time comings. It's nice to see them finally get to speak out and be heard and to see some real progress. Sometimes time is a gift and especially when things are still developing in real time. It's nice sometimes to slow down, take some time, make sure that we can explore things properly and give it the space that it needs and then when ready, are able to move on it. And that's one of the things that's so great about this format and independent journalism

and the way that we're able to tell stories. Chapter 2, that was, I mean, we started working on that in 2024. It's just so continually inspiring to hear from all the different survivors we've heard from this season. And friendship betrayal and friendship alone is so nuanced. And the types of stories, obviously, we tell on something was. wrong are a bit more layered and nuanced and complex and dynamic. Not to say there's not spaces for that elsewhere, but just that's always kind of been the case. And so I think that it's been really interesting to kind of hear the different perspectives of survivors with these very different

kinds of friendships like a classmate or a pastor. But with Aaron's story chapter three, it was started as such a much more like traditional friendship and close friendship. The friendship betrayal elements of this story are actually what inspired the season and the topic and me wanting to dig into it more and its effects. But because of just like case developments and stuff, we had to move it to a later chapter within the season to give it more time. And I'm so glad we did. Aaron is so honest and brave and the people that we've gotten to meet that you'll hear from on the record and those we've connected with on background and behind the scenes, they really all have a heart for justice and the truth coming out,

trying to keep other folks safe and trying to also make sense of this really complex, weird experience that they had and the harm that was caused. I'm looking forward to the listeners being able to hear it and give their support to Aaron and all the survivors that we'll hear from this season. Okay, now we're going to get to my favorite part, which is your three recommendations. I love people's recommendations, and these recommendations can be anything.

They can be movies, podcasts, food, people place thing, whatever you want. I always feel a little weird about if it's a brand thing. If that's your wreck, that's your wreck. And here's the thing. These aren't sponsored, to be clear. When I consume from stores, I usually do try to educate myself on whether this is like an evil corporation or not. We try, but I swear to God, it's like Murphy's Law.

If I talk about someone or something I like, you guys, I did not know that Jerry Seinfeld was such a POS. And during my season, I talked about how much I love Seinfeld. And I still love the Seinfeld the TV show. Ultimately, Larry David is the heart of so much of Seinfeld, too, even though Jerry was obviously like the face of the show. But I'm mortified now that I know more about him and his history. That's disturbing. It's one of those running jokes with the team behind the scenes. Like, if I say I like a popcorn brand, I promise you they will be canceled the next week.

I am the curse. So I was definitely thinking about that. Rec number one. Give it to us. Well, for me, I'm not like a big driver when the kids are not in school, but I've noticed the kids are back in school. And oh, my God, I'm going through gas. Like, you have no idea. Bro, and it's like $5,000.

It's so expensive. Oh, I thought it was going to be cheap. everybody was going to be living and loving and loving and lifeing. Meanwhile. Well, I have to say I'm so happy to realize that Costco gas, if you go in the middle of the day, I fucking love Costco. We know they treat their employees well, and we love a good food court day. Dog in a slice, baby, dog in a slice. But yeah, Costco gas is specifically my recommendation, because now that I'm driving more, I'm just noticing filling up with a whole tank of Costco gas, if I go right in the middle of the day when it's not busy.

People always give me that face with like, isn't it busy? I'm like, no, never, not when I go. That's my first wreck, especially for people who are in a same boat where they just need to offset the driving prices. It might not look like a big difference when you're initially going. It's still for us in L.A., $5 and something cents, but it is a big difference when you pump a whole tank and you realize, oh, I just saved X amount of a dollars. That's my first wreck.

Hell yeah. What's yours? Okay, I just started rewatching. I know you love reality TV. And I used to be big into the Bravo shows back in the day when I was like in college, high school age. I watched that all the time when I wasn't watching documentaries, of course. I think because it kind of felt like a mockumentary almost of sorts and also just entertaining. It was so new at the time when I first started watching it. And for some reason, the Algo was sending me Nini Leaks. I kept seeing her, hearing her, and I, you know, it's like, I miss NeNeNe Leaks. I should just rewatch Real Housewives of Atlanta from the beginning because it's been so long now. And I actually went and looked the first season of Real Housewives of Atlanta premiered on October 7, 2008. It's so interesting seeing that the majority of that was shot before the housing crisis, most likely, and how absolutely rich all of these people were. I mean, I know that there's a lot of people who are still that rich, but I was just like, wow. I also kind of forgot how surface level it is and like how much it is about the financial elements and stuff, especially like towards the beginning of the franchises.

But I just love Real Housewives of Atlanta. It's obviously complex and reality TV is in quotations, reality. But there's just something about Real Housewives of Atlanta. Like they are, to me, the funniest season after season, the best style. and Nini Leaks is just so entertaining and such an interesting human being. I was just watching an episode last night and she was talking about being a survivor of domestic violence

and raising money for her nonprofit that she was starting. And I had completely forgotten about that. It was a relationship earlier in life. Love Greg, rest in peace. There was so much I had forgotten about. But it's so funny seeing the style because it's 2008 style. And then you see the fashion

and how gorgeous everybody looks on the current season. But also like makeup was not what it is now either. And even just the cameras and everything. Ooh. And the home styles like are just different. Oh my God. One person has like a bowling alley in her house. There's like a lot of wives of athletes on that original season and stuff.

But I know that it's not the best representations of humanity, Bravo. But there is something really energy. about that shit. And I kind of just like need things in my life that are unsurious, even though there's obviously heartfelt serious moments within the series and franchise. I'm not trying to minimize that. But because of the serious stuff we do at work, I tend to gravitate towards the very unsurious outside of work. It's really interesting, though. We have seen like an overlap of true crime in the Real Housewives and Bravo reality world. One of the first episodes you ever did.

Can you talk about that? Yeah. Coa Johnson was featured on one of the earliest episodes of what came next. I believe it was episode two. Coa actually was a former employee and good friend of Jen Shaw from the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City franchise. He was her stylist, right? Yes.

And also acted as an assistant and very much became an intimate. intimate friend and confidant and a part of her life. Her behaviors escalated as featured in the docu-series, The Housewife and the Shaw Shocker, and Koa is featured after watching that docu-series, you know, he was in it for like a very limited amount, and I was like, there's more to his story. So we dug into it on what came next in the first two episodes, but there have been other stories like Erica Jane's current husband.

I mean, there has been a lot of true crime overlap. Let's Be Real. You're right. I say that as a deep, big fan of Real Housewives. They lift the veil and a lot of stuff to a certain degree, or at least being on a reality show does that. Money can't buy you clap. Luann? The way that Luan looks incredible.

That's what's mind-blowing to me. I'm like, these people are living in a different hemisphere or something because how they are able to look so good. Luan is currently on the Real Housewives vacation series. And I just heard Nini's coming back. Yep, Nini's coming back. This is perfect timing that I just started rewatching this. So that's why I was recommending it because I heard Nini is coming back.

And bling, bling, bitches is mad. Portia is taking this season by the storm. God, she looks so gorgeous. I just love every franchise. But, yeah, Atlanta is crushing it. This season I'm currently watching this season. I haven't watched all the seasons. This season is wild.

Not only am I going back, but I have so much to like learn still. But I also love candy forever. Oh, yeah, I do too. There's something about her. I would hang out with her. Yeah, she's authentic. This season, there's a couple new housewives. There's Pinky, who is a restaurateur.

She's like a little powerhouse. She's adorable. She owns slutty vegan. What's slutty vegan? It's a restaurant franchise. In Atlanta, I believe, and then elsewhere. But then there's Kay Michelle, who's a country and R&B singer. And it's fun.

What franchise is that? This is Atlanta this season. Oh, my God. I'm so behind. It's fun this season. I'm liking it. Nini is like the icon of memes, though. It's so funny.

You'll see a clip from the show and you're like, that was like 10 memes right there in the 30 second period. So I kind of get those vocal stims stuck in my head for like weeks at a time. I don't know if people can relate to that. But bling, bling, bling, bitch is mad, has been stuck in my head. For days when I was thinking, I really want that to be a ringtone. I never have my ringer on, but I would love knowing it's there regardless. But that was my first rec, Real Housewives of Atlanta.

If you've never explored it, they are the funniest franchise, hands down, in my opinion. I fully support that, Rick. I double it. Okay, what's your next wreck? Okay, so this is with a very heavy heart, I say this. She's one of my favorite humans on this planet, and I can't believe she's gone. She's on my shirt right now, actually. Oh, my God, we're going to talk about Dolly?

I'm sorry, but I have to. Just in her honor. An angel, baby. An angel on this earth and an angel now beyond this earth and the confines of this earth. What would Dolly do? Her husband passed away the week before we had our event in Austin where we had it at the Dolly Parton themed beauty bar there. I think sometimes people have a broken heart when they lose.

I mean, they were together for 60 years. And I know she had some health complications. Yeah, but the only semblance of peace it brings me is that she's, with her husband because I'm sure that had to be so hard for her. Mm-hmm. I don't know if you watched the video her family put out upon her death. Not yet. The algorithm wants me to grieve and I just can't even.

I'm still getting over Catherine O'Hara. I can't do this. So many legends, dude. Dolly's just exemplary. She's just such an icon. I mean, the icon. But I have to say, here's my rec. In honor of Dolly, if you haven't seen this movie, you better fucking see this movie.

Sorry, but it's serious. Nine to five, especially considering what we do, all we talk about. I mean, it's a dark comedy. I had no idea my first time, which wasn't that long ago, seeing this movie, which is crazy because I am a huge movie freak. I've never seen it. I feel bad. I'm going to be so sad.

I love the song, obviously. I knew the premise, but I didn't know the full premise. I just thought it was like women empowerment. Women are going to take in the workforce. The movie is hilarious. It's dark. It's a little twisted, but in the best ways. It's women, supporting women, but it's funny. And each woman has such a great narrative and they take back their power. And if you love Dolly and you just want to see her, I don't think you'll be sad watching. It's so pure Dolly. I love Dolly on film, like straight talk and all those. But number one,

nine to five, got to watch it if you haven't. It's so worth it. Anyway, that's my second wreck. Gosh, hard to go after that. But wow, yes, thank you for bringing that up. I was actually on a call when I got all these text messages about it. And I was like, oh, my God, no way, dude. I love Lauren, but my notification was literally her saying something about like, don't take Dolly. And I was like, wait, is this how I'm finding out Dolly died? No.

I found out for my daughter. I don't know why, but my daughter is usually the first to alert me that a celebrity has passed away. I'm like, what is your alert set to, ma'am? But I think it's because they're at school and all of them are on their phones constantly. At lunch, of course. I got to say when my children got in my car because they're not a lot of phones at school, I looked at them and I said, and they, like, gravely. And they were like, oh, shit, what happened?

And I said, Dolly died. And they were like, no. My kids were sad too. She's a legend. Why? 2026. Why? Okay.

So my next recommendation is another TV show, which like look at me actually able to take in new TV shows because I was so burnout for so many years that I couldn't even take in new stuff outside of work. You know me and my love for TV. I've been behind on everything for years. So it just feels good to do something. I'm so happy to hear this because often whenever I check in with you, you're like, I'm reading this.

I'm reading this and this and this and this. Which is great. But your brain sometimes, I love that you're giving it a little bit of a break. It helps. because if you're only sitting with the really dark stuff, it feels really dark, especially for prolonged periods of time and day in and day out. Everybody needs those breaks. And it's funny because so many comedians that we've met or that have reached out to us that listen to the show,

they work in comedy, but they listen to true crime or things like that in their downtime because it feels different than what they do day in and day out. And I'm the opposite. I'm watching your stuff because I really need to laugh. And so it's just kind of interesting to think about it's human to gravitate towards something different than you're experiencing through a sort of day-to-day lens. Lay it on us. What is it?

I'm going to say hacks slash Meg Stalter because she is just such an icon, hilarious comedian, prettiest girl in America. She's so funny. I love satire and everything about her. and the TV show Hacks was in its final season. It's nominated for a ton of Emmys. It really is a great show on the topic of friendship, friendship betrayal. It's so honest about the layers of relationships in a very obviously funny way.

It's so well done. And I've already watched it and rewatched it, I think, five times now. The finale was one of the absolute most heartbreaking, devastatingly good finale. I probably won't be able to watch it again for a long time because it's so sad that my face was swollen for like three days after because of how much I cried. But it was so good. And I struggle with finale's endings and things like that,

watching those, especially when it's a show that I like feel close to. I like knew I was going to be emotional, but I never could have predicted how emotional it was going to get. And it just was so, so well done. And I just love the space that, was made for female relationships and the different nuances. A lot of it feels very relatable in the industry perspectives and kind of like what goes on behind the scenes and the ways that people's work impacts and influences who they are and how like that can become all of who you

are and finding your identity outside of that. It's very layered and amazing. So it's on HBO and Meg Stalter. She's currently starring in O'Mare. on Broadway in New York City. I wish I could be there to see her. I'm actually going to go see O'Mary in San Francisco in October. It's a different cast, but I'm very excited to see it. So that's my second wreck. You know I love her and you know, have you seen that movie I recommended to you before?

Please don't destroy the treasure of Foggy About because she's in that. I haven't watched it. Where is it on? Peacock. She is fucking hilarious. Yes. I have watched it so many fucking times because it's so funny and I just found it. It's that funny. You can just rewatch it and rewatch it and rewatch it and rewatch it. And there is male nudity, but it's funny. It's fine. I used to watch Jackass. Okay, what's your last rec? My last recommendation. There's always got to be a food item for me because I love food. I like, I like it. I like it. I love food. I like it. And also love Trader Joe's. really hope it's a benevolent. Oh my God.

I almost named a Trader Joe. Okay, tell me yours. Oh my God. I can't wait to hear what your item is. Now you have to share it after. Okay. Also, you have to. I'm going to link this video that Michael found for me on YouTube of Chris Fleming doing a bit

about how girls find the best snacks at Trader Joe's and they have like a different eyesight for the good snack. It's so fucking funny. I'm going to send it to you. Anyways, continue. So Trader Joe's, I love it also for like financial stability. I've seen prices raise everywhere for a lot of things, but Trader Joe's, I can go in and still drop, you know, $100 and get a ton of food.

So this item is actually non-perishable. It's a new item. Look for it. They are called Trader Joe's sour confetti bites. They basically look like chopped up tiny little confetti pieces that are sour square bites. And they're almost like the texture of a fluffy but hard. marshmallow, like a centimeter square. I know that's a terrible description. They have the best texture, the best sour, the best flavors. And I'm a sucker for candy. My kids make fun of me, but like I always

have a massive candy stash in my house. And that is my new favorite candy. Love a new Trader Joe's find. That's like literally what brings me life. So got to share that one, especially since it's non-perishable. What are you going to say about Trader Joe's? Brookie Carmel Candy Clusters. Oh, yeah. It's in a pink bag. My God. I don't know what they're doing. It can't be good for you, ultimately,

because it tastes like straight, pure sugar, heaven, joy. But I recently went to Trader Joe's, and I was like, oh, let's try this. Women really do find the best snacks at Trader Joe's. We really do. So I love that wreck. My last wreck is Renegade Craft Fares. If you've never heard about them, they are held. all over the United States, been 20 plus years going now. I had never gone to an actual event,

even though I had heard about them before. They actually originated in San Francisco. And how I would describe it as sort of like a curated seller's market where it's artists and handmade and the vibes are immaculate. I'd always wanted to go and I had seen randomly online that it was going to be in San Francisco at the Fort Mason Center. So I took a myself on a little date and it was great. It was so beautiful. I knew I was going to be overstimulated because it was a crowd and I had to park in a busy place on a weekend and all that kind of stuff. I pushed through. I brought my earbuds and I took breaks. Instead of just like wishing I had gone, I went and I really enjoyed it and I highly recommend it, even if you don't have anybody

to go with. I thought it was so cool. I love when I can like look at art or jewelry or these beautiful things that people are making and you can see that it's their passion and something that they've put so much love into. Every booth is different because of the way that they like really curate everything. And so it's so cool to be able to like connect directly with folks and ask them like, are you the owner? And a lot of times they were. And so it was cool to be able to actually buy art directly from the artist too and have conversation or get to see that passion. There's another one coming up actually in September in Chicago. October Seattle, November, L.A., San Francisco in November, New York in November.

I think they usually do Chicago, Seattle, New York, L.A. type vibes. Highly recommend. It's really fun, and I bet you'll like it. It was even free to get in. Take yourself on a date would be my rec. And also, Renegadecraft is a great place to take yourself on a date. I love that so much. Thank you for sharing your recs. Thank you for joining me. I know that you are so busy and you have so much going on. So any extra time you carve out to like share with us, I really, really deeply appreciate.

And I know listeners like hearing a bit more about what you've got going on behind the scenes and learning a little bit more about what we are doing outside of our traditional content. I appreciate you so much for being here. Just thank you. Thank you. You know, I love you. You know, I appreciate any chance we get. Thank you for having me. Thank you for my presence.

Thank you for being you. Thank you for this platform. And thank you guys for listening. Yes, thank you. See you next time. Next time on something was wrong. My daughter, she's old enough now that I can sit down and watch things like evil lives here with her. Watch things like the killer in my family.

So she knows what I went through before she was born. I think the most triggering thing for me, was the killer in my family. Seeing that CCTV footage of him in prison, I didn't realize it was going to hit me like that. Because I haven't seen him. So I didn't know what he looked like. The other thing I wasn't ready for was hearing his voice

when they did the interrogations. And I had forgot what he sounded like. Thank you to each and every survivor and guest for sharing their experiences with us. Something Was Wrong is a Broken Cycle Media production created, hosted, and executively produced by me, Tiffany Reese. Special thank you and shout out to my co-producer, Amy B. Chessler, who also hosts our sister podcast, What Came Next? Which you should absolutely check out if you haven't already. Thank you to our social media maven, Lauren Barkman of luxury media, and our glorious graphic artist, Sarah Stewart.

Thank you to our amazing audio team, our head audio engineer, Becca High. with additional editing support by Stephen Wack. Thank you to our behind-the-scenes partners, our lawyers, accountants, agents, cybersecurity, delivery workers, and anyone who contributes to the work we do, thank you. Last but certainly not least,

thank you for listening. If you want to help support the work we do, you can purchase a sticker from our shop at broken cyclemedia.com or become a community contributor on Apple Podcasts. Other ways you can help support the show are by leaving us a review, or sharing the show with your loved ones.

Or, hey, even those you don't love, they might need it most. Until next time, stay safe, friends.