Something Was Wrong - S26 Ep15: WCN Presents: [Jenn Holman] There is a Softer Life

Episode Date: September 24, 2026

*Content Warning: infidelity, physical abuse, intimate partner violence, domestic violence, and murder.Jenn Holman is a survivor, mother, and faithful family woman living in Idaho by way of Southern California. Jenn’s path first crossed with Amy Chesler’s over eighteen years ago when she began dating Amy’s brother. Jenn has chosen to address him as Jesse in this episode, although Amy referred to her brother as ‘Rory’ in Something Was Wrong Season 7. Jenn’s relationship with Jesse began a year and a few months prior to Amy’s mother’s murder. Although Amy was privy to a portion of what Jenn will share in this conversation, some of the more explicit details of the abuse Jenn faced evaded them as a family. Through this interview, Amy also learned a lot more about the night her mother was murdered. Amy is grateful for Jenn’s bravery in sharing, and is personally deeply grateful she was willing to divulge so much about her experiences. It may have taken Amy & Jenn nearly eighteen years to have this conversation, but as Hippocrates said, “Healing is a matter of time, but it is sometimes also a matter of opportunity.”Related Links:- Jenn on X: https://x.com/jennjenn10- Season 7 of Something Was Wrong: https://somethingwaswrong.com/season-7/- [WCN Presents] SWW Season 7 Updates Part 1: https://podcasts.apple.com/zw/podcast/amy-b-chesler-evil-lives-here-this-sh-t-doesnt-end/id1674051643?i=1000602598564- [WCN Presents] SWW Season 7 Updates Part 2: https://podcasts.apple.com/zw/podcast/amy-b-chesler-evil-lives-here-the-darkest-times-are/id1674051643?i=1000612743331- Petition: Keep Jesse Winnick in Prison: https://www.change.org/p/sign-to-keep-jesse-winnick-in-prison-in-loving-memory-of-hadas-winnick- Evil Lives Here: Season 11, Episode 2 - “What if He Gets Out?” https://www.hbomax.com/is/en/shows/evil-lives-here/s11/92560c9b-551c-4fe8-82aa-ae5e023e2d69/e2-what-if-he-gets-out/5d9627e6-fdd8-40f3-8d48-c07e5fdfac0c- I’m Related to a Killer: Season 1, Episode 1 - “Jesse Winnick”https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B0DG1DJQG9/ref=atv_hm_hom_c_lZOsi7_1_34?jic=8%7CEgNhbGw%3D- HBO Max’s Toxic, Season 2, Episode 1 - “Don’t Go Home”https://www.hbomax.com/show/33977981-2e30-45d2-98c6-3145f9c40b33/s2For additional resources and a list of related non-profit organizations, please visit http://www.somethingwaswrong.com/resources

What Came Next is intended for mature audiences only. Episodes discuss topics that can be triggering, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, animal abuse, suicide, and murder. I am not a therapist, nor am I a doctor. If you're in need of support, please visit Something Was Wrong.com forward slash resources for a list of non-profit organizations that can help. Opinions expressed by my guests on the show are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of myself or broken cycle media.

Resources and source material are linked in the episode notes. Thank you so much for listening. Jen Holman is a faithful mother and family woman living in Idaho by way of Southern California. Our paths first crossed over 18 years ago when she began dating my brother, whom she has chosen to address as Jessie in this episode, although I have referred to him as Rory in the past. Her relationship with Jessie began a year and a few months prior to my mother's murder, and although I was privy to a portion of what Jen will share in this conversation,

some of the more explicit details of the abuse she faced evaded us as a family. Through this interview, I've also now learned a lot more about the night my mom was murdered. I commend Jen's bravery and sharing, and I'm personally deeply grateful she was willing to divulge so much with us today. It may have taken us nearly 18 years to have this conversation. But as Hippocrates said, healing is a matter of time, but it is sometimes also a matter of opportunity. I'm Jen.

I am a mother of two. I'm pretty sure my friends would say that I'm off my rocker on most days, but that I love hard and that I am always the person that will be. there for you whenever you need anything. I live in Idaho now after living in California for most of my life. I've been here for a while. I think that moving here helped with my healing because L.A. was out of sight and out of mind. I love it here because I found my love for the outdoors and that I don't like being around a lot of people in concrete. I also realized that as I was going through my healing process here, My home life was about as perfect as it could ever get.

I did have two extremely loving parents and a very stable household. Now that I look back, my childhood was very uneventful and very loving and very nurturing. My parents had been married for years when they adopted me. Being adopted definitely changed the way I looked at life, but nobody ever treated me different. I was the center of everybody's universe. I was the spoiled only child all my life. Even when I moved back to Idaho with them, they still spoiled me and spoiled the kids. That's just the people that my dad was and my mom is. My dad passed away in October of 21. My mom has late stage Alzheimer's and lives with me, but they raised me to love everybody around me and have an open heart and an open

mind. I spent a lot of time with my parents. They were my best friends. I went to church. I was on swim team. That was something that I loved. I met my first love when I was 14 and he passed away when he was 17. I don't think I realized losing him when I was that young what it would do to me until way later on. It definitely jaded the way I thought about love and the way I thought about relationships. I didn't let people close to me for a very, very long time. I did not date again in high school. The end of high school was rough. I would go out and party. I graduated in 2002. I tried to go to college for a little bit, didn't succeed very well. I was just not in a place mentally. I didn't want to be there. I ended up working for a band for a very, very long time. One of my junior

high friends was their guitarist. He had asked me to come out to a gig and I fell in love with their music and I fell in love with them. I was the manager of merchandising and then I became the manager of the street team and I had about a group of five or six that I would have and go out and do flyering and sell tickets. I got to do some pretty amazing things and meet some pretty amazing people along the way. And it gave me this amazing work ethic that followed me into my career now. I have their logo tattooed on my ankle. It was a very, very big part of my life. I had one serious relationship after I turned 21. Kim and I ended up having a child. I got pregnant very, very quickly after we started dating. I ended up placing my son for adoption. It changed something in me.

that I didn't even realize at the time. I wasn't sad, per se, but I was a shell of myself. I wasn't as happy anymore. I definitely felt different. I felt more mature than most of my friends. Like, you don't understand this because you've never been there. So why should I listen to you? I felt very emotionally disconnected for a lot of things after I placed my son for adoption.

He'll be 20 in October. but we are still extremely close. It was an open adoption from the start. So we try to see each other as much as we can. He knows my kids. I know him. I'm very close to both of his parents. So I know this was the right decision,

no matter how hard it was. But at the time, it was difficult because I was grieving that relationship too, because we broke up in the middle of my pregnancy. During that time, I was just trying to get back to whatever my new normal. was. I dated around. I spent a lot of time with my friends and found healing in them. I spent a lot of time with my parents. We were going on weekend trips and doing fun things. We would go get dinner and

just hang out and spend time together. I just needed that so bad. I found my healing and the love that they had for me every single day. I didn't date again. until I met Jesse in summer of 2006. The first night we met, I had just come off three or four weeks with the band. We were at BJ's. It was for one of our friends' birthdays. I had heard about Jesse from girls in our group because he had been trying to hook up with them. He's sitting two seats down from me at BJ's.

And he gets my attention and I kind of look at him and he goes, hey, I've seen you before on Myspace. It's Jennifer, right? And I was like, whatever, went back talking to some other friends. He gets my attention again. And I was like, what? And he goes, it's Jennifer, right? And I said, what?

Like I haven't seen your abs before on Myspace, Jesse. He wasn't expecting me to snap at him. He was like, hey, can I get your number? And I was like, absolutely not. I ended up running into him again about three weeks later at another bar. He was like, come on, give me your number. And I was like, absolutely not. Then we ended up at BJ's again one night for one of our other friends' birthdays,

and he was like, please, let me get your number. And I was like, whatever, fine. And then he showed up at an after party that we were at and backed me into a corner and was like, let me kiss you. And I was like, fine. And that was it. The process went so crazy quick, even physically. I had never slept with a guy that quick in my whole entire life.

he was a charmer and he just knew the right thing to say to me. He was always like that from the second we met each other. The way he was with me, the way I was with him, it felt like it was love. And looking back now, I'm like, that's crazy that I felt like that, that quick. But he was intense. We would go on Canyon drives and talk about the future. And we would go to San Anez and Solvang. and there were times when things were really good,

but they became so far and few and in between. Thank you to quit with Jones for sponsoring today's episode. Changing your relationship with nicotine can be really difficult. And I think one of the most important things is recognizing that it doesn't have to look exactly the same for everyone. Whether your goal is quitting completely or simply cutting back, Jones is designed to meet you where you are. Jones offers science-backed FDA-approved nicotine mints, along with digital tools to help you manage cravings and gradually lower your nicotine intake over time.

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Wayfair, every style, every home. He had a flare for the dramatic. He always had to have a story about something. I don't know if you know that Pretty Omega Watch, to wear that ended up getting sold for who knows what. But he had the most outlandish story for what happened to that. He was like, well, I lost it, then I found it. And then I decided to sell it.

And I was like, what are you even talking about right now? Where is the watch? He's like, gone. I got very mixed stories on that too. He did tell me that you got him the watch. but he told me that you got him a watch and a motorcycle. I did get him both. The throw megawatch.

I think it was like 2000. And then the bike was like seven to eight grand. I kind of like the idea of he was wearing something that I bought him. So the obvious flirtations with other girls would stop, which really didn't at all. He was like, I'm in between jobs right now. things have been really rough at home. I understood and I was trying to be nice about it. He sold the bike for cocaine and a Bronco.

By the time he was done, my credit score was around a 500. What he would do was get cards with my name, my social security number and have the mail to your guys' house. So I would never know about them. Because checking your credit score wasn't something that I thought. of back then when I was 23. I didn't need a car. I didn't need a house. So I had no idea until somebody sent me a collection bill for something. It was a constant thing with him with the money. He also had a thing with breaking cell phones and his cell phone was under my name and he would get mad and

crack his cell phones in half. He was living with my parents and I at our house for a little bit. they fucking hated him. My dad could not stand him. That's when my dad and I's relationship started to change too. My dad was like, how can you be with somebody like that? I raised you better than that. I think your mom and I had a contentious relationship at the beginning. I had never really dealt with somebody like her, but then I never dealt with somebody like Jesse either. I feel now looking back, your mom loved me the best way that she could. She didn't want me with Jesse. She very much was like,

that girl is too good for you. And I'm going to do whatever I can to make sure she knows that. And she was very honest with me. She has a lot to say and she's not afraid to say it. And the funny thing is, I think the reason it set me off so much was because I'm very much like she was

back then now, where I'm just like, take it or leave it. I think also that she was trying to save me from what was going to happen without throwing Jesse all the way under the bus because that was still her son. She still loved him. But she definitely tried to be like, Jen, what are you doing? Part of the reason I went back to school was because of your mom. She sat me down and she's like, if it's been on your heart and that's something you want to do, go back to school. It's never too late. and she wasn't wrong because I got my bachelor degree at 31. Your mom was hard,

but I think her life experiences made her that way because I was like that for a very long time after Jesse. You just shut down and you don't let people too close. She was a tough lady, but I think she loved you a lot. I don't think I've ever seen anybody Jesse ever brought over, give her her energy back? I did. It was actually your ex-boyfriend that pointed it out to me.

He's like, oh, you dish the shit right back out. And I said, what am I supposed to do? Am I not supposed to do that? He's like, that's your boyfriend's mom. You're supposed to be nice. The crazy thing for me is that there was never really anger until Jesse started doing drugs. when he would come down off Coke, he was so difficult to live with and so difficult to be around.

He was just angry and mean. And that's when his true side would come out. He hit me a couple times. The first time I remember being like, what the hell just happens? Just playing it off because I'd never been in a relationship where somebody had the Adassi to hit me. The second time, he hit me so hard that I feel. fell and cracked the coffee table.

After that, we started breaking up and getting back together and breaking up and getting back together and it was constant for months. I would say

it was right around December of 2006. We're just a little over six months at this point. I was at Ryan's house because we were going out for my birthday.

Jesse had gotten dropped off by somebody. And he walks in the house and goes, can I take your car? And I was like, No, you can't take my car. It's my birthday. I want to go home after this. And he got so pissed off that he slapped me across the face. And Ryan was like, lay a handowner again and see what happens. That was the last time Jesse laid hands on me until the night we broke up. After that incident at Ryan's, I was like, get your shit and get out. And he did for a little while. I had gone to Ryan's because he was having a get-together. New Year's Eve and my parents were out of town. He went back to the house, got all his stuff,

and I didn't hear from him for about two and a half weeks. I considered myself broken up. I was like, I'm not dealing with this guy anymore. I don't even know if he ever really considered us together the way he acted 90% at the time. Did he ever cheat on you? He did a couple times. He had a couple girls in his back pocket that he had known before me that didn't have scruples either, even though they knew about me. He calls me about mid-January, and he says that he's sleeping in the car again. He's like, can I please just come over and eat and shower? He walks in, he kisses me, and it was like the first night all over again. By then, he had had so much power over me that I was so used to it. Jesse angry was scary,

and I would do just about anything to keep him even tempered. Looking back, I was in pure survival mode. After that night, he was good for about a week, and then he disappeared again. The next time I heard from him was Super Bowl Sunday of 2007. It was the day that he got arrested in the Bronco. I was with him when it happened. He goes, I may have put your Alero plates on the Bronco, because my tags didn't expire for seven more months.

And the Broncos tags expired in January. So they think this car is stolen. Then my head snaps to, wait a second. I don't know if he even got this shit through legal means when he sold the bike. So the Bronco could very well be stolen anyways. Cops rolled up on us, guns drawn, put us both in cuffs, put Jesse in the back of the squad car, me on the curb.

And I'm just like, this is my life. After he got arrested in February of 2007, I left him in lockup. It was like three days. That's what I was like, well, maybe the cocaine's out of his system. Maybe he's detoxed a little bit. He had his arraignment. They released him on his own recognizance. He called me and asked me to pick him up.

And I was like, sure. But for the next couple weeks, he was normal. He was very sweet and very charming. He wasn't doing the normal love bombing. I was like, okay, when's the other shoe going to drop? We would go out, we had fun, we had great conversation. And I was like, there's no way it's going to stay like this. One day, I want to say the first week of March, I called Jesse repeatedly and he didn't

pick up the phone. He had just left and was gone. I don't know where he was. I don't know what he was doing. but he ended up materializing again on my parents' anniversary. I was out shopping with my mom, and then we had gone to Cheesecake Factory. My mom and I are walking outside of it,

and I hear somebody call my name, and I turn around and it's Jesse. He literally falls into my arms. He goes, can you take me to sh**? And so I take him to shi-s. I'm like, see, I have a good night. I leave. I go do some more stuff with my mom,

and I come back to my parents' house. And he is in a ball on my parents' front porch. My parents have left to go out for their anniversary. So I'm home by myself. I'm like, what is he doing here? So I'm like, Jess, wake up. Are you high or are you coming down? He goes, I don't know.

I was like, just come in and take a stupid shower and get out of my house. And so he takes a shower, goes and lays down to my bed and falls asleep. So I go and do whatever I'm doing. I'm eating pizza, watching TV. and he wakes up screaming at the top of his lungs. And I'm like, Jesse, I don't want to deal with you right now. Just go. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, he has backed me up against the wall,

and I have a knife against my throat. And he goes, do you really want me to go? And I'm like, yeah, I really want you to go. And he kissed me on the forehead with a knife still against my neck, left, and I didn't hear from him again until summer of 2007. I'd like to thank Chimes for sponsoring today's episode. Chime is something my younger self definitely would have benefited from, because Chime is changing the way people bank. They offer fee-free banking with no overdraft fees, no monthly fees, and no minimum balance fees.

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I had heard for the grapevine that he had gotten arrested for the threats against your mom and that he was in jail for a little while with that, wasn't he? It was at least two months. That makes sense because the next time I heard from Jesse was right after he got out. So it was like June of 2007. He was like, hey, do you want to hang out? I was dating somebody at the time. And I was like, no, not really. And then I didn't hear from him again until July. I did that time actually go and hang out with him. We went to TGI Fridays and had lunch. And it was nice. I think at that time, I was like, even if I have to keep him

on arm's length, I'm going to do whatever I can. I ended up going back to school and taking classes at Pierce at the end of August, we had hung out one more time. I was like, I don't really want to give you the wrong impression that you and I are getting back together again and we're going to start this cycle again, but I want to keep you at arm's length because I'm scared of what you may do. He called me the night he murdered your mom and said, hey, let's go out. I was taking college classes at the time. And so I had just gotten back from my night class. And I was like, I got to take my dog for a walk. I have an early morning. I'm tired. He goes, come on, Jen. Just one drink. And I was like, fine. I got to go take a shower, call me back in 20 minutes.

And he called me back in exactly 20 minutes, which was my first red flag. Because Jesse never called back within the time frame you told him to. He was always the call back 30 minutes later, call back 45 minutes later, keep you waiting. I want to say this is right around 10 o'clock. So he's like, are you dressed? Are you ready? I'll be at your parents' house in 15 minutes. He said, I think I just killed my mom.

And I says, you're fucking bullshitting right now. Shut the hell up. I remember thinking, you didn't just do that and calmly call me. Like, it's a Sunday afternoon and we're going for a drive. And so my mom and I decided to take my dog Molly for a walk. So she was outside with me. He pulled up in your mom's expedition. And I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that your mom never let him drive that car.

When he pulled up, that's when I knew something was wrong. So my survival instincts kicked in immediately. I was like, okay, one of two things is about to happen. I'm going to get into this SUV. He's going to drive me to a remote location and kill me. Or he's here to kill all of us. So if I get in this SUV, my parents aren't about to be collateral damage. I get in and he flips open his phone, Amy, sets it on my lap, and it's a picture of your mom on your kitchen floor.

And he turns and looks at me, soulless. Do you believe me now? I shut the phone. I hand it back to him over the center console. And as I'm moving my hand back, he grabs my hand. So now he's sitting here with his fingers interlaced in mind as we're dreaming. driving. I asked him what happened. And he's like, I don't know. I just wanted her to shut the fuck up. And I'm like, can you take me home and not get me any more involved in this than you already

have? As I'm thinking, my fingerprints are all over this car now. My fingerprints are probably all over your house. What the hell is going on? They're going to think I had something to do with this. So I'm looking at him and I'm pleading with them. I'm like, if you ever had one ounce of love for me and your body, take me the fuck home. He hit the turn on to Sherman Way so hard that he almost flipped the expedition. So I knew it was last second decision. And I'm like, I'm going to die. He keeps going.

And I don't realize that I'm not breathing. He snaps me out of it. He goes, it's a nice car though, isn't it? And I'm like, you just killed your fucking mom. And so I'm like in a daze. I don't even know where I am. I don't even know what's going on. He pulls up to my parents' house.

I was in the SUV for a total of six minutes and 33 seconds. I go to get out of the car as quick as I can, but he grabs my arm and yanks me back and puts his forehead against mine and says, I really did love you, you know that. And I was like, yeah, now turn yourself in before this gets any worse. And he lets me get out of the car.

I go in the house and I promptly throw up. As soon as I can think straight, I call. was already at your house. He gives the phone to one of the police officers that's at your house. And I tell him what happened. And he's like, well, can you try to get him on the phone again? I was like, I'll see what I can do.

And I don't get him on the phone again. But about 20, 30 minutes later, my phone rings and it's Jesse. And he's dropped your mom's SUV off at the 99-cent store in Ventura. He's gone to a restaurant with a bunch of people. I remember thinking this isn't going to end. He's going to go on a fucking killing spree and kill everybody. And then all I can think about in that moment is if you were okay. I call him back.

He's like, this is the last time you and I are going to talk. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know where I'm going. But I'll see you on the other side. And the next morning he was making headlines. Three days after, the detectives came to question me. because his cell phone data and the fact that he called me, they did ask me point blank,

did I know that was happening? And I was like, no. Did he ever try to pin anything on you, considering the fingerprints and him giving the phone to you? Because he did try to do that to me. The first time I had heard about that was evil lives here. I did not know that he had done that because he did not do anything like that to me.

Did you ever talk to him again? No. He has called. me since he's been in jail and now in prison, I have not talked to him. I don't even know what the fuck I would say to him. I kept tabs on him. I actually have a very good friend who is a cop. He kept me apprised of everything that was going on for my own well-being. I was scared that he would get out on a technicality, that they violated his rights in some way and he was going to get out. The sad truth is, and I know this from my next relationship after Jesse, there is no protections in place for the victims.

I will get on my soapbox and I will scream that to the high heavens that the justice system doesn't care until you're murdered. From October of 2009 till August of 2011, I got myself into a really abusive relationship the year after. my daughter was born. And so instead of healing, that's what I was dealing with. Because, and I say this all the time, I hated myself in a way that I had never hated myself before until Jesse. I had moved to Idaho in 2011. My parents had already lived here.

About one month after Jen moved to Idaho, Jesse finally pled guilty to second-degree murder and received a 15-to-life sentence for our mother's murder. What was your thought on his sentencing? As somebody who wanted to be a lawyer, 15 to life doesn't seem long enough. I'd like to thank Merit Beauty for sponsoring today's episode. I love Merit because their whole approach to makeup works really well for how I get ready. I don't want a complicated routine every morning.

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One Skin is helping you unlock your healthiest skin now as you age. For a limited time, try OneSkin with 15% off using code SWW at OnSkin.com slash SWW. That's 15% off OneSkin.com with code SWW. you. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. After I moved to Idaho, I would go on walks and just sit with my thoughts. I would read books. I went back to school and I found healing in that. I went to therapy for a little while and realized that it wasn't all my fault. So I put myself in a position where the only three people that mattered were my daughter, my mom, and my dad. And that was it. My daughter saved my life.

She really did. What were your thoughts when you found out about his first parole hearing in 2021? I found out about his parole hearing before you did. I actually had a friend of mine who works in the sheriff's department contact me and tell me that he was up for parole. When I found out you didn't know, I was like, why weren't you the first person they contacted? What I was more shocked about was the fact that he's kept postponing them. I'm just like, you're still so full of drama. It's exercising every last bit of control he possibly can until 2030. I'm not surprised he's utilizing every little loophole he can find,

but I am just shocked at how much he can find to abuse. use. I'm amazed he's stayed alive this long. My daughter, she's old enough now that I can sit down and watch things like evil lives here with her, watch things like the killer in my family. So she knows what I went through before she was born. I also get told to sh and let her watch it without my commentary, which is pretty funny because she's like, can I just watch it without you talking for five minutes? I think the most triggering thing for me was the killer in my family. Seeing that CCTV footage of him in prison,

I didn't realize it was going to hit me like that. Because I haven't seen him. So I didn't know what he looked like. That night was the last time I physically saw him. So I wasn't ready for that. The other thing I wasn't ready for was hearing his voice when they did the interrogations. And I had forgot what he sounded like.

Yeah, it kills me that I have not heard my mom's voice in almost 18 years, but I have all the opportunities to hear his, which is just crazy. It was wild to watch that back and to see the attack that he was charged with. He has evolved or devolved into a whole new human. Do you want to talk about the healing that's come from having a healthy relationship? I would love that, actually. I'll be 42 at the end of the year. And I was like, it's not in the cards for me.

When my dad passed away in October of 21, my ex and I, we had been together for eight and a half years and all of a sudden out of nowhere, we're like, well, let's get married. Not even three years later or getting a divorce. I wouldn't have married him if I wasn't grieving. I would have had my head straight and been like, this isn't the relationship I need to be in. Decisions that we make in grief, even post-Jessey decisions I made,

I would have never made them otherwise. wise. Jays came along and I finally have this level of calm and peace and this level of happiness that I lost in September of 2007. Jays mellows me out, but at the beginning I was like, what the fuck's wrong with them? Somebody that wants to be around me, that wants to know my past, that actively lets me unpack my baggage and sits there without judgment, just with love and affection, and doesn't withhold that when he's mad about anything. He had a bad day at work. It's not my fault.

He comes home and makes sure that he's the best that he can be for me and the kids. He always puts us first. So for me to see that I'm deserving of that has been jarring, but has been so healing. Because I do. I deserve all the love I've given to everybody else. I deserve somebody who doesn't look at my past and throw that in my face. He actually is the one who encouraged me to do your podcast and was like anything you need, we will figure it out.

I think it would be good for you and I think it would be healing. And so to have that outlet after so many bad relationships in a row is just beautiful. I still am very standoffish. My brain still has a block because. of everything I've been through, but I love being around him. I think that my dad, from his place upstairs, wherever he's at, poke Jason said, call her, she needs you because boy, did I. Sharing this so many years later, what does it feel like?

It feels good. I've known for a while that I've wanted to do it, that I've wanted to tell my side, because there was a whole other component to the night of your mom's murder and with the year and a half I spent with him in my life. For me, realizing that I was a victim as well took me a minute because I always felt like it wasn't my story to tell. And I think that it feels freeing. I think it feels like I can finally truly move on and live my life because it's always going to be a part of my life because it's ruined a big part of my soul for a very long time. And now I feel like I can be a better mom and

I can be a better partner and I can use those tools I've learned from healing. And if one person hears it and sees those red flags and they get out or they save somebody's life, then that's all that matters. There's a light at the end of the tunnel. There is happiness. There is a softer life, don't let it define you. Is there anywhere you want to direct people to reach out if they feel so inclined? If you want to get in touch with me, you can find me on Twitter at Gen 10. I am so grateful that you are willing to share. I've learned so much about that night and what you've gone through.

And I'm so grateful that you would consider me a safe enough space to do that with. intimate partners who are violent, a lot of them start honing their skills at home. I'm so sorry that he left our home and executed more abuse. It breaks my fucking heart. But it's validating for me to know I wasn't crazy. I thought I was the problem for the longest time.

I just really appreciate you and your candidness and your warmth, as always. I know we have been connected loosely through social media for a long time, but we haven't had this much time to talk. And it means a lot to me that we did. And it means a lot to me, so thank you. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode.

Coming up this season on Something Was Wrong. Give me my phone back. Give me one second, please. I don't understand. Tell me what you're doing. Stop it right now. I knew it. You know what?

You. You are the one texting me. What are you talking about? When I first found out, it was a terrifying day for me. I woke up and I had had like 11 missed calls from Aaron. And there was a voicemail from the last call, which was like 2.30 in the morning, or three in the morning or something. Hey man, I'm very, very afraid and shirkin up because I think is a pathological liar.

I think she has manipulated me. I don't know if Danielle's even real. I don't know if Alexis is real. I don't know if the police chief is real. I don't even know if the pedophile at this point. I'm very weirded out. I'm very scared. I had her come over and try to prove to me these things.

But I have long text messages with Brian, with Alexis, with Frank, the police chief. And when I called them in front of her, her phone lit up. Dude, this is fucking crazy. This is a person who I loved, who I thought was my person. who I thought was my best friend besides you. I'm very afraid of living next to her. I don't know what I'm going to do. If all this bungee stuff is fake?

What the fuck? She just ruined all of our lives. If all of this was a lie, I don't know what I'm going to do with my life. I'm probably going to die. He just lost his best friend in a way that's like the craziest thing ever. This person has lied to him for years

and has manipulated all of this. It seems so ridiculous the lengths at which a person would go through to do all this. The lies built on top of the lies. It was all going to come crashing down. Like, why do it? She was like, I have a confession to make. I'm in love with Aaron. It occurred to me that maybe she had feelings for him, but it wasn't reciprocated.

Aaron got very angry that I started dating in Miami and Richard. He would sleep with me, he would get angry if I went to go hang out with other friends. This really contradicts what all of the witnesses I've spoken to have said. I've not only spoken to Aaron, I've spoken to former friends, many people that you've mentioned on this call. I got a message through Instagram. I'm a former friend of Marthas. I discovered she was a liar. She has hurt so many people.

I made it to New Mexico late last night. It's going to be a great opportunity to learn more about the situation and see how far this really goes. What Came Next is a Broken Cycle Media production co-produced by Amy B. Chessler and Tiffany Reese. If you'd like to help support What Came Next, you can leave us a positive review, support our sponsors, or follow Broken Cycle Media on Instagram at Broken Cycle Media. Check out the episode notes for sources, resources, and to follow our guests. Thank you again for listening. Thank you.