Something Was Wrong - S3 Ep1: She Has a Problem with Lying

Episode Date: October 18, 2019

*Content Warning: gaslighting, domestic abuse, emotional and physical abuse, suicide, suicidal ideation, distressing themes. Music from Glad Rags album Wonder Under

If you're serious about growing this new year, what you put into your mind actually matters. And as someone who lives and breathes careers and self-development, even I get overwhelmed trying to do it all. Between work, life, and trying to better yourself, self-care can start to feel like just another thing on the to-do list. But investing in yourself doesn't have to be complicated. And with Audible, it isn't. It's time to take care of you. And who better to help than the top voices in well-being all in one place. With Audibles' well-being collection, you can level up your career, finances, relationships,

sleep, parenting, or mindset. Whether you want motivation, clarity, or practical advice, there is something there to support you every step of the way. I listen while I commute, clean, work, or just when I need a little bit of downtime. You'll hear from best-selling authors Brené Brown and Jay Shetty, Chef Jamie Oliver, finance expert Rachel Rogers and popular parenting guides like raising good humans.

Kickstart your well-being journey with your first audio book free when you sign up for a 30-day trial at outable.com. Membership is 1495 a month after 30 days. Cancel any time. There's more to imagine when you listen. Oh, hey, how's it going?

Amazing. I just finished paying off all my debt with the help of the Credit Counseling Society. Whoa, seriously? I could really use their help. It was easy. I called and spoke the credit counselor right away. They asked me about my debt, salary, and regular expenses, give me a few options, and help me along the way. You had a ton of debt. And you're saying credit counseling society helped with all of it? Yep. And now I can sleep better at night. When debt's got you, you've got us. Give credit counseling society a call today. Visit no more

debts.org. This podcast is intended for mature audiences and discusses topics that could be triggering to some. Opinions expressed by guests on the show are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of this podcast. I am not a therapist or a doctor. All resources, books, and sources mentioned on the podcast can be found linked in the episode notes. Please note, names have been changed in this story for anonymity purposes. If you or someone you love is being abused, please contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-723. If you or someone you love is struggling with a suicidal crisis or emotional distress, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 24-7 at 1-800-273-8255. Thank you so much for listening. I'm really passionate about jumping into

season three because I think so many of you are going to be able to relate to the emotions of this story, and I hope that listening to this season will be as validating for you as it has been for me. This season tells the story of three modern American firefighting families living in Pennsylvania. The Bishops, the O'Brien's, and the Johnsons. I learned of this shocking and heartbreaking saga from a listener-turned friend, C.J. Bishop. C.J. is an O.G. Something was wrong listener. We began messaging on Instagram back during season one, and I was captivated right away by her story and what her and her family had been through. CJ, her husband Brad, and her mother-in-law Victoria, were all thankfully willing to speak with me and share their experience because, as they have said, if it helps even one person, then it's worth it.

In season three, we're going to dive deeper into gaslighting, emotional abuse, trauma. We're also going to talk about what life looks like when you are recovering from trauma in interpersonal relationships with narcissists and sociopaths. I'm Tiffany Reese, and this is something. was wrong. Victoria met when she was only three years old. They began dating when she was 14 and Ted was 17. In 1982, they married and moved from base to base in the U.S.

while Ted was in the military. Together, the bishops had two children, Brad and a daughter. Ted later became a firefighter in Pennsylvania where the family still lives today. A while after moving to Pennsylvania, the bishops met Patty and Kurt O'Brien. They became fast friends and the families enjoyed getting their kids together for playdates and barbecues. The third family in this story, the Johnsons, were also friends of the bishops and neighbors of the O'Brien's. All three families live only miles apart to this day, though they are definitely no longer friends.

Here's Victoria. Ted and my brother were best friends all through high all through school. I wasn't until when I was 14 that I kind of noticed Ted and Ted kind of noticed me. We started to date. I ended up pregnant after he got out of high school and we got married. I We got married. I actually miscarried that child and he went on to the service and I stayed in school. After he was done with basic training and all of his training, we went into the military and that's

when we started our family. We moved to the Midwest to Indiana and that's where he was stationed at his first base and we ended up being there for, well, through the birth of our... two children. You know, we have a son and a daughter, and for the most part, we were very happy. Very happy. Didn't have any real big issues. We had a good marriage. Age it had it's up and downs. We got moved around. In 1991, we would start searching for a home base, and he tested at several big fire departments. My husband was a fireman, and that brought us to central Pennsylvania. My name's Brad. I'm 32 years old. I'm a city firefighter.

My dad and I were extremely close. Best friends. I mean, I mean best friends. He was the best man at my wedding. I went into the same branch of service as him. I went into the same profession as him. We hunted together. We did everything together. I mean, to say, I mean, he was my best friend. He really was. It's kind of hard to talk about, you know. It's just a lot of good memories. You know, it was always kind of him and I. He worked hard. Ten or twelve years old, my mom went back to school. She went to State University, you know, got her.

So my dad picked up another part-time job aside from the fart department and was working, you know, 80, 90 hours a week. But we were extremely close. The closest relatives that we have are about three hours away. So it was just the four of us, and it made us very close, you know, real close. know, real close. You know, we were just inseparable, I guess, grown up, just very, very close, really looked up to him, you know, really taught me a lot. He was a great dad. He did not have a good childhood, and he, I remember him vowing to me that he wouldn't do the things that his dad did.

His dad was a drunk, beat up on him and his brother and his mother. His mother and my grandfather, they got a divorce when he was 16, and he vowed that, you know, he would never do those things. and you know and you know because his childhood was how childhood was pretty rough he enlisted when he was 18 married my mom like I mean they had got pregnant out of wedlock they got married right away they went active duty I mean they were kids I mean I think my mom was 16 when she had my sister so my dad had to grow up real quick and that kind of boldened him I loved my dad and continue to love him but you know he was a prideful guy you know he went through the military went through the whole ranks retired the military he was a full-time fine

I mean, he was a man's man. I mean, he was a tough guy. He was pretty tough, but loving. Growing up, would rule with an iron fist, so to speak, wouldn't hit us kids, you know, but it just didn't take any crap, you know, it was just a discipline house, but he was also an absolute blast. Like, we had a lot of fun, you know, so it was just, he knew when to turn it on and turn it off. He was, he was a great dad. He really was. I can't say any more. He really raised my sister and I write, discipline-wise and you know yes sir no sir yes ma'am all that stuff you know and but he knew i mean we had the best of times i mean when we turned on the fun button it was hard to turn it off sometimes i mean we just had a really good childhood and i can't uh sorry i can't think him uh enough you know

for that childhood so here's victoria we were introduced to patty and to Kurt, became fast friends. Our children were relatively the same age, and we did everything together. You know, we became best of friends. Here's Brad. I'd say we probably met the O'Brien's around I was eight, nine, maybe ten, no later than ten, I would say. Kurt was also a fireman in the city and had kids, you know, the same age as my sister and I, you know, so that kind of made it easier to choose things with and we started hanging out at a young age and kind of doing everything together. You know, we went on growing up, we went on vacations together and always at each other's houses and every holiday, every, you know, there was tons of weekend, you know, all that stuff.

I mean, we've gone to Disney together. They've hang out in the summertime like the O'Brien's had a pool and constantly over, back and forth, going to, I mean, any kind of outing, any kind of get together you can imagine out to eat whatever everything you know they exchanged at christmas and all that stuff they were you know really close even even that far back patty and kurt were good friends and johnson's were also really good friends the husbands all worked at the fire department and the wives worked all over town and and we just became really great friends over the years we became closer and closer and Patty and Kurt had triplets in 1998 as our family kept growing and getting older and you know things were changing and changing in not per se bad way just your family is growing

up I met CJ in high school senior year I think that was 2004 I mean I had like one semi-serious girlfriend before that but You know, it didn't last long or anything, and I was pretty excited about CJ. You know, I wasn't a huge dating type. You know, I didn't like I had a girlfriend every week type of deal. But I really fell for CJ pretty hard, you know, right out of the gate. So I was pretty excited about it. And after actually a Trace Atkins concert was here in the city,

I went with my family and CJ met us at the house afterwards. That was the first time they met. And they loved her, yeah. My name is CJ. I'm 31. Brad was just different than any other guy in high school. He is just an old soul, a gentleman, just like a completely, just decent guy. The first time I met his family, I was 17, and he took me home to meet his parents and his sister. And my first impressions of them were just amazing.

They seemed like a really close-knit family. they did everything together. They just all seemed so close. And they welcomed me in with open arms at first. I mean, his dad was really, he was just kind of a goofball. So I really kind of connected with his dad because his dad and I had the same kind of like funny personality and would always best on each other. His mom was really warm and welcoming. They always made sure to extend invites for dinners.

They always made sure to include me and stuff. They even invited me to Disney that year that we graduated in 2005. Only with us dating, you know, so many months at the time, they extended that invite for me to come with their family. And a couple other families for this trip, they just always included me and they always wanted us kids to be around. So the first time I had met Patty and her family, Fraud had picked me up just for a date that night and he had to swing back to his parents' house to pick up something. And Patty and her husband, Kurt, were there with their kids. And they were having just like a wing night at my in-laws' house. And you could just tell they were all a really close-knit group of friends. They just did everything together. And like from that point on, whenever I heard of, you know, my husband's parents doing something, they're friends. Patty,

and Kurt and their family were always included. There was never one without the other. That was the family that they had chosen. That's the way everybody liked it. They all enjoyed one another. This type of friendship is the type of friendship I hope to have someday. I want friends that can be just like my family that are like blood. It was something I was actually really envious of at the time. And I feel like that, I felt like that was the kind of friendship people just would be lucky to have in their lifetime. Patty and Kurt had, and it. addition to their two older kids that were my husband and his sister's age, they had three younger boys that were triplets. You know, come over, we'll play volleyball, we'll get in the pool,

like, let's do this. You know, she was always up for having fun, good, honest fun. And she was just always very welcoming. She would welcome anybody to her house. She hadn't had invited neighbors over, other friends, you know, other friends of the fire department. She, nobody was ever not welcome at her home. Here's Victoria. Over the years, we became closer and closer, and they had the summer holidays. We helped with the winter holidays. The Johnsons were supposed to help also, but that always didn't pan out. They were always there, but just never, I always called them the shadows.

They always went along with everything that the O'Brien's were doing. And I used to say, wow, they're really becoming like their shadows. But then I noticed we were becoming the O'Brien shadows, too. because anything that Patty wanted to do, everybody had to do. As my daughter went off to college, their daughter was a year behind age-wise, and then she went off to college. Brad went to, into the military, left home, and that's when things started to change.

Here's Victoria. We were having some pretty significant marital problems, still thought it boiled down to. We were married young. you know, there was an empty nest, and, you know, we were going to work all of this out. You know, we loved each other and things just for Ted, you know, he was never satisfied. He always seemed that he wanted more. He wanted more. He wanted more. But I always kept this hope, you know, because he was my sweetheart, the love of my life.

And I just thought, you know, we're just going through a really bad time. Every relationship has good years and bad years. And we're unfortunately going through. some bad years. Ted was testy all the time and he was cranky all the time and he was snapping at me all the time. You know, anything that I would say, he would pick a fight with. If I did something at the house, he would be like wanting cross-examining, wanting to know why and everything that I did, everything that I said, it was always my fault, always my fault. You did this, you did that. If I would go to the grocery store and say, oh, I'm going to pick up milk and bread and I came back with eggs and cheese, I was considered a liar. If I was going down to see one of my kids

and I didn't tell them everything that I did or said to them, I was a liar. And it got to the point where I started questioning everything I did, everything I said. And my husband then said, you know, I think you need help. You know, he says, I think you're cracking up. It's like I was starting to agree with him because this kept evolving and getting worse and getting worse and getting worse. He comes in one day and he tells me that he volunteered to go to Baghdad. And so he was going to be gone for at least six months. And I thought, well, maybe this will help us. During this time, Patty just became a little bit more demanding and just seemed like as things progressed with our friends.

friendship, Ted and I grew further apart. Here's CJ. Patty, I loved her when I first met her. She seemed fun. She was bubbly. She was welcoming. She had a really funny sense of humor. You know, she knew how to have a good time.

And she was just really nice and very welcoming. I really liked her when I first met her. It's a typical American mom. If there is a typical American mom out there, you know, She'd just raising kids, going to work. Really nice lady, you know, kind-hearted. I stayed over at the O'Brien's house, you know, growing up, and, you know, they would watch us and stuff, you know, if my parents had something going on. I mean, you just kind of looked at her as another typical mom, you know, nothing out of the ordinary.

As a kid, you know, you don't really read too much into things or anything, you know, didn't really have to because it seemed like she was just a genuine lady. We were at some kind of, I believe it was like a charity game. maybe through the fire department, but I can remember being in person talking with her about, and she made a snarky comment about my mother-in-law. And it was something that, it wasn't a terrible comment, but it was something that I had agreed with because at the time, you know how it is. I mean, when you start dating somebody, their mom's not always going to be on board with you right away, especially if you're young. So, and it was just, it wasn't that I ever had like a terrible relationship at that time with my mother-in-law. It was just that normal, awkward, like, you could

tell that there was a distance between you as the girlfriend and, you know, your, your boyfriend's mom, who it's her only boy, and that's her baby. And she wants to do nothing but protect them. So it was just that normal, like, division that frankly, like, you know, I think most people experience when they have a serious boyfriend who has a mom that he's close with and she just wants to make sure her baby's protected. So my mother-in-law and I, you know, did have like a divide between us in that aspect at the time, which again, totally normal. But I can just remember Patty making a comment in front of me and I had agreed with it at the time. And I had said like, like I felt a distance between my mother-in-law and I. And she basically was like, well, you know, obviously,

because Victoria can just be this way. Like, you have to be careful around her. I get it. I completely get it. And I left thinking, that's so weird that her best friend is saying to me, oh, well, yeah, she can't be trusted. You know, you need to watch around her. She just can't be trusted.

I know exactly how she can get. And I just felt it was so odd at the time. Also, I guess I felt like, oh, okay, then I'm not crazy. So it's not something I'm doing. Other people can see this too. And I didn't have many really serious boyfriends. So I didn't, looking back as an adult, you know, if I had a son, I'd be like, I would have been the same way at the time.

But whenever you're a teenager, you don't see that way. You just think that your boyfriend's mom's crazy. Whenever it's not crazy, you're just immature and you don't understand how it is to have a child that you're protective over. So at the time, hearing that from Patty was like, confirmation to myself like, oh, okay, so it's not just me that's being immature. It's, it's my boyfriend's mom. She's the problem. Patty and I had emailed a lot over the course of the last 10 years. You know, if I didn't email her during a day, then she would email me. And sometimes it was me sending the first email. Sometimes it was

me initiating conversation that day. And other times it wasn't. It was just 50-50. But it was daily. I would talk to her. And if it wasn't through email, It was through text message. It was through, sometimes it was through email during the day at work. And then that night it would be text messaging about, oh, you know, guess what Victoria did? She ticks me off. Blah, blah, blah. It was always complaining.

It was just that. And that was the total nature of our relationship I noticed was complaining about my in-laws. And I totally admit, like, for a while, I was a part of that because, you know, my mother-in-law and I just didn't have a good relationship for many. years. She would always complain about my father-in-law's ego and how he always had to be the biggest and best at everything and she just could not stand that trait about him. Now, I mean, I get it. Like, you know, my father-in-law, he, he was a macho guy, but he had a heart. He wasn't a complete, he wasn't a total jerk. You know, she just didn't like that, like she would say, well, you know, somehow I wanted to have a quiet family Saturday night with my own family and my

pool and the next thing I know, here comes Ted, here comes Ted, Victoria over and he just comes over and he has his cooler a beer and he plans on staying there all evening. Like she, she just, it was like it just ticked her off when in reality, she invited them. I mean, it's not like they just showed up out of nowhere. She would invite them over. She would invite them over. She, you know, she would insist for them to come over. She would always just complain about his macho attitude and, you know, oh, he's never wrong about anything. Oh, he, you know, she didn't like that he would debate with people on politics. And she just, she just never had anything good to say about him, ever. I spent a lot of time at my in-law's house. And I was always welcome there.

But if I would leave there the next day, I would be at work and I'd get an email. from Patty saying, well, Victoria, um, Victoria, um, Victoria mentioned that you, you know, you were kind of rude last night and you were kind of this last night or she mentioned that she wasn't really happy with, with this that you said. Like, and, and it was such stupid things. And I remember thinking, I didn't say that. I didn't act like that. So why is she saying that? But I couldn't bring it up with my mother-in-law because it just felt like she wasn't supposed to know that I was communicating with her friend. So I was getting all this behind the scenes information from my mother-in-law's best friend who is saying, well, you know, Ted and Victoria said this

about you the other day. They said they really hope, you know, you don't do this. Or it was just, the stupidest trivial things that just made me start to not trust my own, my own in-laws. If I wouldn't have had a private relationship with Patty, I would have thought that nothing was wrong between her and my mother-in-law's relationship. I mean, they really acted like best friends. And a lot of times, you know, it was Patty initiating get-togethers, whereas she would tell me, she would say to me, oh, Ted and Victoria invited us over this weekend, but I'm really not feeling it. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, the weekend would come. Sure enough, they would all have plans together. and I would think, okay, well, if they invited you and you didn't want to go, then why do it?

I would hear my mother-in-law saying, oh, well, what are you kids doing tonight? Well, you know, Patty invited us to do whatever. And in my head, I'm thinking, wait, she told me, like, you know, Patty told me that you guys had initiated this get together, not her. in turn, when something like that would happen, when there'd be like conflicting stories about who invited who to get together and have dinner on a Saturday, you know, I would mention to Patty, well, my mother-in-law, you know, Victoria, she said that you extended the invite. No, no, no, she's lying. Like, I swear, she lies all the time.

This is an ongoing problem. You know, I'm always, I'm always telling her, like, she has a problem. with lying. She can never even tell the truth about the simplest things. And I remember thinking, well, why lie about it? Like, who cares who invited who? What's their lie about? It was just odd. I trusted Patty with everything. And I did. I consoled her about everything. Even when we had relations, it got to the point where, you know, I would have an argument with Ted and I was, you know, within two hours, I was calling Tad. and talking to her saying, hey, you know, I don't know what to do.

And she would say, oh, you know, maybe you should just leave him, you know, teach him a lesson. Just leave him. And she's like, oh, or, you know, do you want me to talk to him? I've talked to him. And then our relationship started to deteriorate. And every time I turned around, she was accusing me of, like, lying. And she was accusing me of not telling her everything that was going. on, like if my daughter and I went to go shopping for an afternoon, she would get really angry

with me because I didn't tell her that I was going shopping with her, with my daughter. And I was like, well, I didn't know I needed to ask you for permission. And she's like, well, you know, if you're a real friend, you tell me everything, you know, and I don't understand why you're being so hostile. And she always, always made me feel guilty. Always. I bet you, in a week's time if I didn't say, I'm sorry 20 or 30 times, it was the norm. And I felt sorry for her at times because I was like, wow, she feels, she always made me feel it was always my fault. And it got to the point where I started questioning everything I did, everything I said.

And my husband then said, you know, I think you need help, you know, he says, I think you're cracking up. It was like I was starting to agree with him because this kept evolving and getting worse and getting worse and getting worse. I started seeing a counselor and she did all this testing to make sure, you know, because I even said, I said, I feel like I am going crazy. I said, my husband feels like that he's like that I have some issues and, you know, my best friend is saying, you know, hey, you need to get checked out, make sure everything's okay. And I'm like, okay. So I did. I saw a counselor for a couple of years, and then I broke off from her because I thought, oh, I'm doing better. And even though our marriage wasn't better, and our friendship was okay. But it just got to the point where I didn't think Patty could do anything wrong because everything, she seemed like she was protecting me or she was saying like she was advising me or you need to try this, you need to do this. Maybe go on a day. maybe try this.

So after a little while, I started seeing another counselor because the other, the first counselor, I just didn't feel was helping me. And she just kept reaffirming to me that I wasn't crazy. And, you know, I would tell her about our friendship, mine, Ted's, and Patty's. And she always said to me, she's like, you know, I don't understand your relationship here. She says, it's a weird triangle that you have going on here. Why are you listening to the two then and not you just taking the initiative with Ted? And I said, well, Patty's my best friend.

She is, you know, looking out for me. And she says, is she? And I says, well, of course she is. Why would she not be doing anything else? Next time. Flirting started happening a little bit. And I just always used to say, wow, I says, you guys treat Patty like she's a queen. What is the deal with that?

I don't understand that. Then about four years ago, he started alienating my son, our son. He didn't know he was getting involved with a psychopath. So he started to adopt a lot of the crap that she would do. She had me convinced until I got my shit together and realized, like, she wasn't a good person. all of these things were happening behind my back and it was like another world. I wonder if I was walking into see Mr. Hyde or Dr. Jekyll today. I just didn't even know who he was anymore.

Something was Wrong is written, recorded, edited, and produced by me, Tiffany Reese. Thank you so much to the Bishop family for participating in this series. To reference sources, resources, and links that are mentioned on the podcast, check out the show and episode. notes. Music on this series by Gladrags. If you want to help out the podcast, you can leave us a positive review on iTunes. You could support the podcast on Patreon. You could share it on Instagram or Facebook with your friends. Share the podcast with your Reiki healer, your yoga master, your barista, your, um, I don't mentor, your baby mama. Um, um, I don't mentor, your baby mama. Let me be straight with you.

This is a radio commercial for three small business insurance. The policy has no fine print. It's clear what's covered. So while you can't see the following scene, just know that this pet store is protected by three. Joe, did you leave the snake tank open? Look, I don't want to point fingers, but yes. It's what I'm calling my lawyer.

They're going to need some help with this mess. Luckily, they have three. No fine print, just exceptional coverage. Three is a product of Berkshire Hathaway Direct Insurance Company. Three, no nonsense, just common sense.