Something Was Wrong - S4 Ep4: We Will Kill You

Episode Date: February 22, 2020

*Content Warning: death by suicide, cultic abuse, religious abuse, abuse of children, psychological and physical violence, gaslighting, domestic abuse, suicidal ideation, death, distressing themes. Music from Glad Rags album Wonder Under  IG: @GladRagsMusic www.somethingwaswrong.com/resources Follow Tiffany on Instagram @LookieBoo  Thank you to Leahness, Thom and Jim Bouge for participating in this series. *Sources: (some of these links are Affiliate Links) Combating Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan  Raven: The Untold Story of the Rev. Jim Jones and His People by Tim Reiterman www.somethingwaswrong.com Everything Sucks: A Gratitude Journal For People Who Have Been Through Some Sh*t  Gaslighting: Recognize Manipulative and Emotionally Abusive People--and Break Free by Stephanie Moulton Sarkis, PhD Psychopath Free Recovering from Emotionally Abusive Relationships With Narcissists, Sociopaths, and Other Toxic People by Jackson MacKenzie  A Thousand Lives: The Untold Story of Jonestown by Julia Scheeres

Something was wrong is intended for mature audiences. Many episodes discuss topics that can be triggering, such as emotional and physical abuse, suicide and murder. Please take caution when listening. I am not a therapist or a doctor. Opinions expressed by guests of the show do not necessarily represent the views of this podcast. If you or someone you know is being abused, please contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-770.

If you or someone you love is experiencing a suicidal crisis or thoughts of suicide, please call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255. Thank you. I'd like to dedicate this episode to my baby brother Bobby. He was murdered eight years ago today. In his memory at the end of this episode, there's a cover song I performed with one of my best friends Isaac a few years back. The song is by Death Cab for Cutie, one of Bobby and I's favorite bands that we bonded over. I will love and miss him forever. A quick note, the formatting of season four is slightly different due to the unique nature of the story, interviews, and historical significance of the People's Temple and the murders at Jonestown. In order to shed more light on

the Bogue family story as a whole, narration based on and including content from books, essays, media coverage and FBI documentation will be included to further round out the story, provide background information, and explain the context of some interviews. Additionally, it's sometimes easier for trauma survivors to write about specific parts of their story, and that is okay. I respect that not all survivors want to verbally record all aspects of their experience, and the last thing I ever want to do is retramatize anyone. It is truly an honor and a privilege to get to tell these stories. P.S. You may notice a tapping sound in some of today's recordings. Not to worry, the bog men just like to emphasize when they talk. Thank you, friends. The once good reputation of the People's Temple

Church began its downfall as defectors left and started sharing their stories with the media in the mid-1970s. Because of this, Jim Jones was motivated to isolate members further by moving them from California to Guyana in South America. The group's new compound was sold to members as a magical utopia of equality and good works, an opportunity for members to start over and rebuild their lives from the ground up. Defectors taking a stand and leaving the people's temple impacted families like the Bogues, who saw both the bravery of the people escaping and yet the backlash of the abuse of those who tried to escape. The messaging to rank and file members of the church was clear. Those who leave will be punished. This further tightened Jones' grip on members both emotionally and

physically. A few People's Temple members died under suspicious circumstances after defecting from the church. Tom and Jim both spoke with me about a principal church member, Bob Houston, who was found dead in a suspect train yard incident in 1976, two years before the massacre at Jonestown. I'm Tiffany Reese, and this is. Something was wrong. Of course, by then some other people already died who left here in the States that had defected and mysteriously they'd come up dead. But Jones would prophesy it. Oh, they should have never left.

You know, I see them. They're getting gunned down in the street. Oh, they should come back to the father. They should come back to the house. You know, and it's just like, and then a few days later you hear they got shot down in the street. coincidence? Really? There was Chris Lewis.

Okay, and he grew up in the streets. And he was, I'm just guessing at his age, you know, considering my age I was young, you know. And I figure he was probably in his mid-30s. So he'd grown up in the streets all of his life. But the moment he defects from the church, somehow he gets gunned down in the streets. Then he had Bob Houston. Now here's a gentleman who. I don't know just how many years had worked for the railroad, but many years, many, many years.

You know, definitely journey level. But somehow, after he left, Jones saw him having an accident at the train yard. And next thing you knew, yeah, somehow he'd got stuck between two cars crushed as they were backing one train up to another. It was like, and you think this guy didn't know to stay out of the way? So, but that was a direct message to people. We will kill you. So basically some of the others who did defect, they didn't stay local. They flat out disappeared for many, many years.

Bob Houston, he was in San Francisco there somewhere, but he was killed in the train yards. They said it was a suicide, but we know it wasn't. As punishment for trying to run away from the People's Temple Church with his best friend Brian Davis, Tom was kept in isolation for two weeks and then escorted by Jim Jones himself to the jungles of Guyana at the age of 15. Tom and Jim hadn't seen each other in over two years. Based on her interviews she did with Tom and Jim, Julia Shears wrote about Tommy's arrival to Jonestown in her book A Thousand Lives. On the day Tommy arrived at Jonestown in July 1976, Jim Bogue heard the tractor laboring up the muddy road before he saw it and reluctantly stopped working. Jones was expected. Everyone but Bogue was a

flush with excitement. As farm manager, it was his job to debrief the leader on food production, and as he walked down a pathway toward the central area in his rubber boots, he ticked over the points he wanted to make. He lined up beside the road with the others, cheering with them as the tractor lumbered into view. Bogg composed his face into flat lines, hoping Jones wouldn't detect his low, simmering anger. He could hardly bear to glance at the newcomers jumping down from the trailer behind Jones, but the bubble of hope he knew would only hurt him rose in his chest anyway. His eyes were drawn to a slight figure balancing a duffel bag on his shoulder, a boy, a teenage boy. The kid was staring at him, a wide grin spreading over his face. It was Tommy, his son, filled out and grown some,

a scraggle of fuzz on his upper lip. Fifteen now, almost a man. Two years Jones had stolen from them. Jones and the others stood back and watched the father-son in smug unison. They kept Tommy's arrival a secret from him, like so many other things. But it didn't matter now. His family was being returned to him. Of course, that was one of my happy days of my life. You know, I couldn't believe that he was really there. Tom had a way of being in trouble from the word go. I'm I mean, he was constantly... Did it make you nervous for him?

Yeah. Me and Brian Davis had ran away. Me and him were in so much trouble. You know, from nearly the beginning, all into the time they shipped me to South America. But a couple years later, they sent him... And again, I was even in trouble all the time down there. Okay?

So when he shows up, and within about six months or so, they decided they're going to put him in charge of me. me as to watch over me on one of my disciplines. Okay? Me and him were, you know, and at first we were a little on guard with each other. He didn't know if I had changed since last time we saw each other. I didn't know if he had. And so, but it didn't take as long to figure it out.

We were still on the same page. And once you figured out, I was just like, how stupid are these people? We remember talking about that. How stupid are that? You know, he's like, they actually put me in charge of you. You know, I know, they put you in charge of me. You know, and we devised this whole plan to run away again. And we did.

And that's how we ended up with scars on our ankles from having shackles welded on our ankles to each other. Because one, he's like I, and we didn't want to be part of this on any level anyway. He wanted to go back to his mom's. I believe she lived in Santerville or Marin or something like that. And I just wanted to get the hell out of there. But we decided that we were going to walk back.

Over 3,000 miles. We're going to walk. We're going to go through the jungle. care we're going to take our cutlasses and go and and and and before he had showed up i'd been working out working a lot with the local indians so they taught me a lot about survival in the bush you know what you can eat how you get it and all this other stuff right i could have done quite well so anyway we'd came up with this plan that since he was in charge of me we were going to go out to the woods to collect wood for a fire for the fire in the kitchen right so we had actually put inside these

big gunny sacks or supplies we'd take off across the field we each have a cutlass we we which is like a three foot long knife used for going through the bush. And it's a very good survival tool. He's telling me, run, hurry up, let's go, let's go, run, run. You know, like he's supposed to do. And I remember as people are thinking that he's making me run across this field, like he's just being hard on me, almost with pride in her face and a couple of them laughing and stuff.

Like, oh, look, he's making him run. He deserves it, right? And as soon as we get past into the jungle, get past the woodrow area, which is transitioning from the open field into the actual jungle. We stop, we break up our gear and we start leaving. We're out of there. And our plan was going to be was to get to Matthews Ridge where we were going to contact there

because there was a military base there, a small contingent. And we were going to contact them to the U.S. consulate in Georgetown, Guyana, and get out of there. Pretty much she stayed in the jungle for the first couple hours then we came out on the road. And we heard the tractor coming. It was getting to be nightfall. So we hid behind this little hill that this road went between.

And after they passes up, we thought we were going to be clear, at least until we could hear them again. So we started walking again. And it sure as hell, they caught us from both sides and took us back. Oh, they were discussing all kinds of punishment within the meeting. Because we were being made an example of, too. So we're in front of everybody. They were discussing everything from just beating us down to actually shooting us in the stomach.

with wet cardboard with a shotgun. And so they decided that they were going to chain and shackle us together and make us work 18 hours a day hard labor. So that's exactly what they did. We went out to the warehouse and they had made these shackles with chains to put between us and they welded them on our legs. And then they dip our feet in a bucket of water to cool down the metal, which actually would burn our skin our skin. And it actually, I mean, yeah, it actually made deep wounds on both of our ankles.

I still have that scar to this day. Although it's not nearly as easily seen. But no, that scar is still there. So then they well out on, and yes, we had to work 18 hours a day. But, you know, there's one thing, even while they were doing that, that I didn't come to appreciate until the next evening when we got done with our first time, first shift. How do you change your clothes?

You don't. Nope. So our clothes got washed every day because that's the only way we could wash. So yes, we had to go out there and work 18 hours a day, cut him with this log and everything. It was a huge log, probably about three foot around. And they had somebody supervising us with a shotgun. And they put this one guy, I don't know, he was probably 17, 18 himself watching over us. And his knucklehead hadn't even been trained with a firearm in any sense of the work. So he's sitting there bouncing it on the ground because he's bored.

Right? And sure as hell, about the third bounce, it goes off. Do you shoot himself? No, no. He came close, though. He came close. He probably came within 12 inches or less of his face. And we're talking, Turner Brackle, well, that answers one question. It's loaded. So, yeah, they came out there. He actually ended up on a disciplined crew himself over it. And then they put somebody older with the shotgun watchovers after that. But I can't say this also. during that time, we ate the best of anybody there. And that was Jim Jones's wife who made sure of that, marshaling.

Because it's like, you know, you can't have these kids working like this and not giving them the food to do it with. You'll kill them. So anyway, so yes, we ate better. We're probably the only ones that actually got eggs and meat. And so we were the initial two that formed the discipline crew, which grew later. When the actual discipline crew or the work crew, whatever I want to call it,

began to grow the hours shortened. So I remember about two weeks in, we were cutting the wood up in the firewood, splitting it. And Brian was holding the mall, the splitting mall, on top of one of the logs. And he's like, dude, he goes, well, we used terms like dude back then. But he was just like, Tommy, he goes, hit my thumb.

I was like, what? He goes, I'm going to put my thumb on the mall, hit it with the sledgehammer. Right? I'm like, no. I'm like, it'll bust your thumb. And he goes, I just need a break. I just need a break. Right?

He goes, just be careful. I'm like, okay, we're swinging a five-pound sledgehammer at a splitting mall to split this hard wood. And he wants me to be careful on how I hit his thumb, totally desperate. And I thought it was absolutely insane. But then he got so desperate with it, I actually went to do it. actually did it. He stuck his thumb up there. I brought them all over my head. But by the grace of God, all I did was break the skin. Did he get a break?

Oh, yeah. We got a break. Yes. So they didn't unchain you even after that? Oh, no. Oh, no. No. Did not unchain us. Oh, and we had big sores on our ankles now. Yes. I mean, there were probably the sores on our ankles before we'd been welded, we're probably silver dollar size at this point. And so now we go to the nurses station, okay, because, you know, they take us there because his thumb's been hit, right? And while we're in there getting treated, Stephen Jones walks in, and he saw it, and he tells the nurse, keep him here, I'll be back.

Because Stephen was nothing like his father. Stephen actually cared about people. He was like the the big brother of our generation. He really did his best to look after us. So anyway, he goes and gets his mother. She comes over there and she looks. And then she tells them the same thing. Keep them here. And then she leaves.

And then she comes back and she says, Jim said to take, our father said to take the shackles off. Yeah. So they used air-driven cutting wheels to take them off. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so we got, you know, another burn with that, right? But at least they got them off.

So from that point, yeah, it probably took four months to heal up. So after those came off, then we, you know, we went back to splitting with. And as the other kids got in trouble, whatever else, they were assigned to the learning crew also. And then they put this real sadist in charge of us, Sebastian, seven years older than us, eight years older than us. And he was a black belt. And he had this, this thick stick, hardwood, soft. stick, probably about six feet tall, that he'd stuck rubber shielding on both ends, probably about a quarter inch thick. And so if you weren't doing what you were supposed to do, he'd crack

you with that stick. Some kids got totally knocked down. Got beat pretty bad over his stick. He went to whack Brian once at once, and honestly by town after all we'd be gone through, Brian just looked at him. I was like, that's all you got? Because he really had nothing left. He'd just about taking his knee out from the backside. And I don't even remember seeing Brian's face wins. All he did was just fall back, just got back up.

Like, nothing happened. Almost as though he'd just trip. Did you ever dare fight back? Oh, hell no. Because you have nothing and this guy's got a giant stick. Well, not only that, but it's point. Pointless. It's not a battle you're going to win. I mean, we learned that lesson when we're still in San Francisco. Oh, when I was about 13, 14 years old when I'd gotten in trouble. And back then, it was boxing. And they would take somebody who they felt could just, you know, take you down. And they put me up against this one kid. They didn't know that me and this kid had gotten into a tiff the day before. So we were already.

You were actually ready to go. Oh, yeah. Cocksecker bit me. Yeah. During the fight? No, no, no. The day before. So, yeah, I was like, yeah, we're ready, right?

And they felt because he was the son of a Marine that he'd be able to kick my butt and all this stuff, right? But we'd kind of grown up together too, right? And he didn't know crap. But anyway, and I win that one. I straight up knock him out. So then they said, oh, so you're not just going to stand there and take it like you're supposed to. So they went and got this other kid that was a first. few years older than me.

Right afterwards? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, they're going to beat you down until they beat you down until you get beat. And this kid, you know, it was an interesting thing because he kept like knuckling me on my on top of my head. And, you know, and I was, you know, and I was just duck and cover, duck and cover, and cover. And I remember, you don't, you're hitting my head.

Okay. You're hitting a block of wood, buddy. And so after a while, you know, it was just like, okay, he's had enough. And I'm going to think myself, that dude didn't do crap to me, right, until the next day. It felt like somebody had ripped all my hair out by its roots. Oh, yeah, he knew exactly what he was doing. I mean, you couldn't touch the end of your hair without going, whoa! Oh, I probably hadn't combed my hair in a month.

Oh, yeah, he bruised the hell out of my head. I think he spent most of his time on hard labor, pretty close. What did that feel like for you as his dad? Well, I learned Tom was probably one of the strongest people I ever met in my life. He's awful close now hearing that. I never told him that. But he took him away. He took beatings.

I've seen him choke down so much that I thought he was dead. But he'd get right up and pull another prank. A lot of people don't consider Jones very bright, but he was an extremely brilliant man. Things he did, you know. He knew medicine inside out and upside, but a lot of people just don't never want to print that part about him too much. But he wasn't an extremely brilliant, until he got on drugs. and he probably always was on drugs to a certain amount, but I don't know, but down there he just got sloppy ass.

Of course, he had his young girls that he stayed there with him most of the time. But, no, that project could have worked. That was the part that bothered me, but it wasn't to be. It seems like you said he was the actual detriment to his own. self because it's not the work of the group that... No, but the group supported him. Do you think blindly? Blindly, a lot of them did simply for his attention.

And, of course, he weeded them out right away to get that inner support from the support of the other people. And they become like little Gestapo's, you know. And that's why down there I learned right. right quick. I said, oh, Jim Boe, you better get yourself some smarts. And I did, and I got, most days I was away from the general group. I become a mining person.

We knew there was gold there because the Guineas was finding gold all over the place. Did you guys ever find any? No. Well, we just used that for an excuse. I had two buddies, as they probably heard about the Indian ones. We would take off every morning and we'd stay gone. Oh, I went through some periods of feeling sorry for myself.

You know, that's... I can imagine why. I mean... Do you feel like you sort of just had to be neutral? No. On the outside, you went with the group on the inside. inside it, you went, I mean, you felt sorry for yourself or you felt degraded or it kind of, and of course you would do the best you can so that you wouldn't be put in trouble.

Was it ever hard to contain yourself, like physically speaking? Well, yes, but you got to the point, you know, you was only going to make the matters worse. But the main thing was to stay ahead of the crowd. These two Indians, they were dad and the son. They were great guys. So you had people in the church that you were close with? Them, them too. And, of course, my physical condition went down pretty bad.

And Tina and Juanita, my two daughters, they were both there. And they would steal eggs, so we'd boil them, they feed them to me because they was afraid I wasn't going to be able to have the strength to get out of there. A lot of us had opportunities to do Jones-in. I mean, a lot of us, when you have a gun and you got live ammunition, and you could put it right on him, and it didn't happen. And I wonder why we didn't, especially me, why I didn't. I had such a couple of real opportunity.

I could have blowed him right out of that chair. And why I didn't. Do you think because you were afraid of how the other members would respond to you? No. I don't think any of us ever thought how other members would feel about anything. No. Yeah, because I can see that night just as plain as if it was yesterday, I'd land there with that high-powered gun and oiled.

just a short distance away, you know, why I didn't. And when I got home, I'd have dreams about getting him with a pitchfork. I remember my father telling me three months beforehand, you've got to stay out of trouble. He was because time comes for us to leave, we've got to leave. Because these things are going to be all put in place. He never did survive very well. We used to tell him that Tom,

Be ready any time, but we didn't dare tell him too much because he talked to any sleep. If it got out, we were doomed. Next time. By this time, we all knew something was going to happen. Something was wrong is written, recorded, edited, and produced by me, Tiffany Reese. Thank you so much to the Bogue family for participating in this season. music by Gladrags. Follow me on Instagram at Looky Boo. L-O-O-K-I-E-B-O. Resources mentioned on the podcast can be found linked in the episode notes or at something was wrong.com slash episodes. If you would like to help

support the growth of something was wrong, please consider leaving a five-star review on iTunes, supporting the podcast on patreon.com, supporting our sponsors, or sharing it with your friends and family, or your gym coach. travel agent, stylist, neighbor, bestie, friends with benefits. Okay, you get the point. Okay, love you. Bye. The time for sleep is now.

There's nothing to cry about. Hold each other soon. The block is dumb. The Big Carl with two charmed-boiled beef patties and melted cheese is a big meaty meal. And with three juicy patties, the really big Carl is back for an even bigger meatier meal. The Big Carl and Really Big Carl at Carl's Jr. Feed your happy. Available for a limited time at participating Carl's Junior restaurants, price, participation, maker.