Something Was Wrong - S4 Ep7: The World is Gonna Come Together | Season Four Finale

Episode Date: March 22, 2020

*Content Warning: death by suicide, cultic abuse, religious abuse, abuse of children, psychological and physical violence, gaslighting, domestic abuse, suicidal ideation, death, distressing themes. Music from Glad Rags album Wonder Under  IG: @GladRagsMusic www.somethingwaswrong.com/resources Follow Tiffany on Instagram @LookieBoo  Thank you to Leahness, Thom and Jim Bouge for participating in this series. *Sources: (some of these links are Affiliate Links) Combating Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan  Raven: The Untold Story of the Rev. Jim Jones and His People by Tim Reiterman Gaslighting: Recognize Manipulative and Emotionally Abusive People--and Break Free by Stephanie Moulton Sarkis, PhD Psychopath Free Recovering from Emotionally Abusive Relationships With Narcissists, Sociopaths, and Other Toxic People by Jackson MacKenzie  A Thousand Lives: The Untold Story of Jonestown by Julia Scheeres Raven: The Untold Story of the Rev. Jim Jones and His People by Tim Reiterman Order Strong Women Rising on Amazon! 

Something was wrong is intended for mature audiences. Many episodes discuss topics that can be triggering, such as emotional and physical abuse, suicide, and murder. Please take caution when listening. I am not a therapist or a doctor. Opinions expressed by guests of the show do not necessarily represent the views of this podcast. If you or someone you know is being abused, please contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7.7. If you or someone you love is experiencing a suicidal crisis or thoughts of suicide, please call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255. Thank you.

What the fuck is going on? First of all, I just want to say, I'm really sorry for the delay of this finale episode. It was definitely not my intention for it to come out a week and a couple days late. I have been, like you all, dealing with the overwhelming changes in relation to the COVID-19 crisis. My family and myself are here in California, and we are currently sheltering in place. But the reason for the delay last week was that I was under the weather. I am fine. And I also received news of a loved one passing away.

So I apologize for the delay. I hope everyone is staying safe right now, staying home if you can. And I just want to take a moment to say, I love you. We're going to get through this together. I also just want to take a minute to say, thank you so much to everyone who's out there fighting the good fight on the front lines trying to keep us all safe and healthy right now. My heart goes out to everyone. I want to also give a special shout out to my husband this week who works with the homeless.

and has been working on the front lines to make sure that those people are still being fed and taking care of. And it's people like him who are really heroes this week to me. Also, Brad from season three, as you know, he's a firefighter. He's out there fighting the good fight. T from season two, she works at a veterinarian's office. She's out there fighting the good fight. Sarah's dad from season one, he's a fire chief. He's out there fighting the good fight.

There's so many people that I know and love that are being impacted. by this crisis right now, and I just want to say thank you to those who are helping. Obviously, this has been top of mind for myself and all of us, to be honest, it's been pretty hard to think about anything else right now. That being said, it's really been on my heart to try and support people during this crisis in any way that I can. I'm currently working on an episode for next week featuring licensed therapist Elise Kennedy of Moving Part Psychotherapy in Austin, Texas. And we're going to talk about the emotional impact of COVID-19, adjusting to these massive changes, how COVID-19 may feel different for trauma survivors, and how we can ensure we're taking care

of our mental health during this challenging time. We're also going to dive into how to talk to our kids and teens and parents and grandparents about the crisis in a psychologically healthy way and various other emotional aspects of keeping our mental health as it relates to crisis. And if you have any questions you'd like me to ask Elise, you can DM me on Instagram at Looky Boo or send me an email at Something Was Wrong podcast at gmail.com. Next season will feature Survivor Short Stories, which will be one to three-part longer episodes highlighting one-on-one interviews with myself and other survivors. The first few short stories will dive into modern quotes of today and spiritual abuse.

If you want to share your story, head to something was wrong.com slash submissions. Lastly, I have a couple personal updates I want to share with you all. My new book, Strong Women Rising, is now available for pre-order on Amazon. It comes out April 14th. I'm very, very proud of it. If you would like to pre-order, I will put a link in the show notes. Also, I've been planning a podcast production pop-up. That's a one-day course for anyone who wants to learn how to launch a podcast from start to finish.

This was originally intended to be an in-person event, but obviously due to COVID-19, I'll be moving this event to a virtual offering, which is actually pretty awesome because this way I'll be able to open it up to more people from all over the world, and it'll also be less expensive for those who want to attend because I'll be hosting virtually. I'll be announcing tickets soon, so if you're interested, you can follow me on Instagram at Looky Boo. L-O-O-K-I-E-B-O-O. And last but not least, before we jump into the season four finale, I want to give a special Patreon shout-out to Danielle, my Patreon angel of the last few weeks. You are incredible. Thank you so much.

I know this has been an extremely difficult time financially for all of us. Your support just like really meant a lot to me. So thank you so much, Danielle. And thank you to everybody who sponsors the podcast on Patreon. As we're going through this uncertain economic time, the podcast is also being impacted. I'm planning to add some more Patreon benefits over the next few months. So if you have any ideas, let me know. Send me an email.

I know a lot of people are interested in bonus content and bonus episodes, and that's something I definitely want to work on in the coming months. So stay tuned there. One of the first new benefits of being a Patreon member currently is that you will get first dibs on tickets to events like the podcast production pop up I'm doing and also a virtual meetup for listeners, which will be announced in the coming weeks. So stay tuned. Thank you so much for your support. And I just, again, want to say thank you to those on the front lines, sending love to you all. Stay safe as trauma survivors.

and those who have overcome emotional abuse, coronavirus ain't got nothing on that shit. We got this. I'm Tiffany Reese, and this is. Something was wrong. You think you know me, you don't know me with at home. Think you know me, you don't know me where. In some ways, I'm blessed to having gone through the Jones Town experience,

having gone through the people's temple experience, growing up because it's given me an ability to see a big picture. You know, I'm not so caught up in the micronisms of everything that goes on. I tend to look at the big picture of things. You know, what does this mean as a whole? And because I feel kind of, would I want to go through it again? Absolutely not, you know, of course, right? But I did.

But it's still who you are? Yes. And you can do with that and make positive change and positive impact on the world. Yes. Or you can let it kill you. And I find a lot of people that I speak to, don't ever look at it from the big picture. They look at it from their own little world they're living in,

not overall, like, let's say as a nation or as a state. And I'll go down as far as to, you know, because obviously because I'm mayor, right? The city level. Absolutely. Okay. And was I brainwashed by some of those things that I was involved with the Jones Town?

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. A lot of my, the ways I look at society is from that brainwashing. And when I say look at society, you have to understand it's growing up through that, we were raised to be as one big family. We were all brothers and sisters. The nucleus was tore down in people's temple. Okay. We didn't particularly, I mean, while we knew we were fathered and mothered, we knew who our fathers and mothers were, but that aspect was taken away.

And so we were taught we were all just one big family. So because of that, I at least I believe because of that. I tend to look at, like, my city as one big family. And yes, we're all going to have fights with each other just like any family members would. Okay, but I try to look at the overall health of the family, you know, and where it's going. The worst case scenario a person can be in is being in a situation where they need help in dealing with something. And nobody's helping. They see it and they do nothing about it, which is part of the reason I feel it's part of

of my job to help out those people because I've been there. I know what it's like to be in a situation where, yes, what are the adults doing about this? You know, why are the adults so caught up in this? Why are they not saying to hell with this mess? I'm out of here, you know, or standing up or whatever else. Instead, no, you take your beatings and everything else and you just keep right on going because there's nothing else left to do but to keep right on going. Because when I first ran for the city council here in Dixon. Okay, the very night that I was seated on the dais, there was a lady who came up and said,

don't drink the Kool-Aid. My almost, my response was, is you're telling me not to drink the Kool-Aid, somebody who knows and has seen the results of that occurring, I have a suggestion back, don't drink the Kool-Aid. I always question things myself, and oftentimes I find myself had odds.

I put it into the context, in which it's meant under. Okay, and basically what is meant by don't drink the Kool-Aid is don't blindly follow because others are doing it. That's what that, and that's really what the term means. Okay, back when I was first going to run for city council, there's his gentleman that says, I got a great campaign manager for you. Fantastic at doing websites, all this stuff. And he'll help you out, right? I was just like, well, okay, well, I don't have the money to pay for one. He goes, no, no, no, he isn't going to charge you. Or it was later on, actually all three became great friends.

But anyway, so we're first walking around. This first time met him, right? And he didn't know of my Jonestown background. Okay. So he's, and he made several references to the gentleman about not drinking the Kool-A. Okay. And he's like, shh, don't say that. Don't say that, right?

And he's kind of like, eh, right? And the guy's like, why? You know, they're kind of like talking in low tones. He goes, because he was there. He's like, shut up. No, he wasn't. He goes, yes, he was. right and and they're having this little debate if i was or wasn't right and i'm hearing this whole

thing now i got i got i got a i got a pretty twisted personality okay you know i pick up on those things i you know media of mine starts saying you know how am i going to screw with them right oh yeah oh yes it's too good yeah right right it's too big of an opportunity to pass up right so finally he turns around to me he goes were you in jonestown i go yes i was and i've been very solemn tone, right? I'm going to play this. And he goes, wow, he goes, you know, I'm really, I'm really sorry about the, uh, don't drink the Kool-A, you know,

comments I was making. You know, I was like, you know, I let my, you know, voice even like, you know, crackle a little bit, right? I'm like, you should be. I go, you have no idea of the memories that conjures with me. You know, it starts causing me to have flashbacks. She's, man, I'm so sorry. And I'm just like, I, I don't even know.

So, you know, I don't even know how to respond to that now. You know, I'm really thinking maybe I should just go home, you know, and just get away from it. He said, no, he goes, I'm really sorry, right? And I'm like, finally just like, okay. You know, I really got this guy who lined in the sinker that I'm really just like tore up over this, right? You know, and I try and I go, dude, really? Really? That's just the same.

That's all it is. Have you ever been sensitive about it? No. Never. Never. Not even once. I think one of the biggest questions that really keeps popping up from time to time is, why did I survive? Yeah. Why me? Yeah. You know, you know, because you know, you watch these movies and everything else, you know, where it's like somebody is saved from something because they have another purpose to fulfill in her life, right? And so you tend to ask yourself that question. Is there some other purpose I'm supposed to be fulfilling? Am I fulfilling that purpose? Am I missing that purpose? And I should be. fulfilling something. Those kind of questions go through your mind and I think that's natural. It's like being in a bus accident and 32 people are killed. You're the 33rd person on the bus and you're the one who walked out and you have to ask why did I survive that? You know, these questions are going to be natural for you to ask yourself. It's just what are you going to do

with it when asking. Connie now, she's my wife, but we've never been really married for 20 years. We went to a dance and she was there and I went and asked her to dance and she kissed me on my first turn around the floor she took me home and I never left Sounds like my kind of girl She likes to dance and she knows what she wants She was pretty wily

I mean she took me in and showed me the world But now they take care of me like I was a wandering child You know What's that like? I mean they take my arm to cross the street and all this, but I know I'm getting more wobbly all the time. He fought a long time about coming to live with us because he felt much like, I'm sure, most elderly feel when they're getting up in years, that if I go stay with my kids,

they're going to control my life. And so I told him, I said, no, dad, what you're going to find out, you're going to be more on your own at the house than being concerned about we're going to try to control something you do. You know what? Let's face it. How many more years in life does he have than me? Who am I to sit here and tell him what he should or should not do? And all of that, but he's gone through how many more years of life than I have?

So far as I'm concerned, if he says, you know what? I think I'm going to go climb up Mount Everest this year. And in my mind, I'll be saying, you're crazier than a hood owl, right? But I'll be just looking at him and going, okay. well you have fun doing that. Scared to death if he did of him? Sure I would. Try to stop him. Not a chance in help.

Do you feel like as a parent that was hard for you to sort of find that balance? Between control and not control? Yeah. My biggest concern with my children growing up wasn't so much control as it was education. I am a lecturer. You think about this. You think about that. You think about if you do that, how is this possibly going to be able to try?

What are the different ways that this could turn out for you? And that is what I looked at as my role as a parent was to teach them about decision-making. You know, and yes, of course, when they're little kids, no, you can control everything they do because you don't want them to run out street, get hit by a car. But let's say they go to pick up a dog poop, right? Like they're going to bite it, right? Sure. And you're going to, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Before you bite that, understand that is dog poop. and it's going to have a god-awful taste in your mouth. You may want to smell it first before you taste it, right? And it looks like just, no, I'm going to taste it. All right, go ahead. Enjoy. Yes. And then they taste it.

And he said, now how was that? It's like, uh-huh. That is like your most famous line. All right, go ahead. Yes. As long as it's not going to be something's going to hurt them, I'll be like, you know, because most of them learn from experience, right? First-hand experience.

You have to let them experience something. things that aren't going to kill them. Now, now, not say that that they might get, might not get a minor injury, like they might fall down that hill, but they'll be fine, right? I told you to stop jumping on the couch or whatever, yeah. And of course, I am the guy who says, I said, I told you so. You know, so when they fall down the hill, you say, you know, now didn't I tell you that if you climbed that hill, where you're going to climb it? There's a good chance you're going to fall. And you may want to consider that. Yes. It's like, well, you fell down the hill, didn't you? Yes. Are you going to climb that hill again?

Maybe not today. But that's fine. Right. Because now they know that there's chances you take in life. So what you try to do is to line up your decision to, how should I say, to prevent the biggest casualty to you as you go along. But you're going to do that by turn the reins loose some. What does it like to hear your dad before and now your grandpa like sharing? Because it's not something you guys talk about all the time.

No. Well, it's definitely eye-opening. I definitely have like a different perspective on just how I view life in general. That it's, I'm still kind of processing everything. You know, I mean, because yeah, it's, I've been thinking about just the last interview until now, just trying to like put myself in those shoes and understand what it would have been like. Well, I've always been interested in psychology and like mental illnesses and things like that.

and just listening to the previous interviews that you've done, you really like delve into the mindset behind the, what is the word? Yeah, behind the abuse and the abusers' reasons for doing things and how the victims, how they process that whole situation. And so for their generation, the mental breakdown of all of that, it never was really a thing for them. And so I feel like we don't really talk about how, you know, they feel about these certain things. And it's really something that I've really wanted to learn. It's something that I can hold on to. It's a little piece of history that

I can pass on to my kids. And it's not like listening to the other interviews. And it's, I don't really like hear the actual story. If that makes sense. Yeah, it's all cut. out. Because like I've been told things over the years on what happened, but it's over the years. So it like bits and pieces leave my mind. And now I have something that I can reflect on and listen through the whole thing and know exactly what went down and just have it to remind myself. As you're searching in life, deciding who you are, what you want, how you're going to get there. And you beware of these people that will use your intelligence and put you down at the same time, but then they go off with your intelligence.

I think you've got to get to the point where when you're given information of where it's going, what's it doing, and how we're going to react to it. And I think that's a very hard one to deal with. But I think that we need to work on that more than anything else. And like I say, I consider Jonestown a lesson in life. My massage therapy was a lesson in life. I milk cows. That was a lesson in life.

I was a pole climber. That was a lesson in life. I mean, I've been there. done that and I'm satisfied with my life because I feel that a lot of people don't get the opportunities I got probably because of my not seeing things like other people see but I it's working through all of these experiences that was Jonestown now this is a new life I mean, anybody that dwells on sad things never progresses. They keep living in the negative, negative.

And I'm known that some of the people have been down there. That's they couldn't get out of it. I considered learning, and I know it helped me in my work because I was able to understand people better because of Jones the way he put everything. And so I think it's a lot. plus. We're going through a state of progress and I think we're going to I think the world's going to come together and I think all of my kids and grand kids and all

that are going to be a part of this but the world is in a stage right now to where we're accepting more than we used to because if you like with my parents and their parents, they had definite thoughts that weren't broken. And now they broke that all down and we're accepting and were producing more in that direction of world peace is what I really expect out of all this. I do have hopes for that. I love that you can still believe that. Yeah, because if you watch that kind of line of thinking, you'll find yourself thinking it.

And I really do. I think that we're finally got through shooting each other and beating each other up, that, hey, that hurts. Anything else that you would share with listeners? Well, actually, there's two things. The first one is sort of a sort of a disclaimer, okay? is because one thing that you have to understand is that you, on this topic, particularly with Jonestown, you will hear a lot of different survivors. Once you actually survived Jones Town, some that just survived being in the church that never went down there,

who all have their own stories to tell. You will hear a lot of variations to every story and even conflicting stories, but they all have a common foundation to them. So when you hear each of us speak, you have to understand this was our, personal experience as individuals within the group. And because of that, it's important to understand that in listening to all the different ones, you'll get a fuller and broader story of overall how an organization like this was handled. And ultimately, I realize in hearing these stories, it's a sort of entertainment to it.

It has entertainment value to it. It's natural. It's part of our makeup. Right. Right. You know, you see that. dead animal in the path, you say, oh my God, what killed it? It's a survival thing into itself, reaction to it.

So you're drawn towards this. But if you don't listen to the key factors that were involved in what drove people to these types of groups and understand that you are right now part of a society that is very much like it was in the 60s and can easily get pulled into that type of organization without even realizing it, unless you understand that once they start telling you how you're going to behave, whom you're going to talk to, how you're going to react, and how you're going to maintain an isolation within the group,

when you start having those things throwing at you, know that you're now in a cult and to get out. Because if you can't take that from this, then all you got from this was a source of entertainment. And really what it is, it's us telling the story to try to keep others from falling, into that same catastrophe. Absolutely.

And as most people know, Jonestown was not the first nor the only, whoever killed its membership. Open your mind, understand, and when you tell yourself it can't happen to you, it's too easy to prove it can. Oh, one last word? Yeah.

Don't drink the Gulae. You think you know me, you don't know me well at all. You think you know me, You don't know me well. Something Was Wrong is written, recorded, edited, and produced by me, Tiffany Reese. Thank you so much to the Bogues family for participating in this season. Music by Gladrags. Follow me on Instagram at Looky Boo.

L-O-O-K-I-E-B-O. Resources mentioned on the podcast can be found linked in the episode notes or at something was wrong.com slash episodes. If you would like to help support the growth of something was wrong, please consider leaving a five-star review on iTunes, supporting the podcast on patreon.com, supporting our sponsors, or sharing it with your friends and family.

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