Something Was Wrong - S5 Ep7: Rebellion is as Witchcraft | Rachel

Episode Date: July 27, 2020

*Content Warning: sexual violence, rape, sexual abuse, sexual assault, cultic abuse, religious abuse, emotional abuse, workplace abuse, *Sources: (some of these links are Affiliate Links) Combating Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan  Gaslighting: Recognize Manipulative and Emotionally Abusive People--and Break Free by Stephanie Moulton Sarkis, PhD Psychopath Free Recovering from Emotionally Abusive Relationships With Narcissists, Sociopaths, and Other Toxic People by Jackson MacKenzie  Free and confidential resources: www.somethingwaswrong.com/resources Music from Glad Rags album Wonder Under  IG: @GladRagsMusic Submit your story on SomethingWasWrong.com/Submissions Follow Tiffany on Instagram @LookieBoo Purchase Strong Women Rising now on Amazon

Something was wrong is intended for mature audiences. Many episodes discuss topics that can be triggering, such as emotional and physical abuse, suicide, and murder. Please take caution when listening. I am not a therapist or a doctor. Opinions expressed by guests of the show do not necessarily represent the views of this podcast. If you or someone you know is being abused, please contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7-7-7. If you or someone you love is experiencing a suicidal crisis or thoughts of suicide, please call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255. Thank you. My name is Rachel Meyer.

I am 27 years old. I currently live in America, but I actually grew up in Scotland. My parents are Scottish and South African, and that's part of the reason why I don't have an accent. My parents spoke with more South African accents, so I just tend to pick up accents quite easily. So when I came to America, I just speak American. So that's why I don't get confused.

was wondering about the accent. I'm not going to lie. Well, I can do a Scottish accent if you really like. When I go back to Scotland, actually, by the time I get off the plane, I tend to switch straight back into a Scottish one. And then when I fly back to America, it goes back to an American accent. I'm never quite Scottish enough for the Scottish people when I get back, though. They can always hear the American in there. So I was raised in a village of a thousand people in the highlands of Scotland called King Usi. And we always used to make fun of people who visited because they would call it King Gussie because of how it was spelled. But nope, it was King Usi. I have three younger sisters and one younger brother. I was born in Glasgow. My parents were evangelical Christians, charismatic,

you would say. And they moved to England, I think when I was two to study at a Bible college ran by a church called Kingdom Faith, and they were very much on the charismatic, happy, clappy, holy rollers side of things. And they believed they had been called by God to be missionaries. That's actually why they moved back from South Africa to Scotland. So they went to the school to be trained, and then the plan was to go back to Scotland and plant a church. And my parents, through that church in England, they had connections with a Christian trust in the Highlands of Scotland. And they had a 100-year-old hunting lodge that was in this trust family. And they wanted a Christian couple to basically come and be the caretakers of it.

And my parents made a deal with them that they wouldn't have to pay rent. They would just pay utilities and stuff like that. And they could live in this hunting lot. and basically start their church, start their ministry. So at the age of three, I think, it was when we moved there. And this was like a 10-bedroom hunting lodge. Hadn't been renovated since the 70s. So it was like orange and paisley wallpaper everywhere.

Like I think the lady who had been taking care of it before lived in learning like two or three of the rooms. And so like the heating barely worked. So I remember every year me and my dad would like take a room and we'd redo it. For a while they didn't plan a church. They kind of functioned more as like a B&B slash place where missionaries and like church groups could come and like have like retreats or have conferences and stuff. So it was funny. This house was so old. I actually had like a servants entrance from the kitchen going up to like the servants quarters.

And then it had like the main staircase going up to. to like the main bedrooms. And so we lived for the first couple of years in like the servants area. So we had our own little place to get places. And it was really weird having so many people around. And I remember my sister Hannah would get very possessive of like our things. I think probably because there were so many people. And my mom would put us through drills where it would be like, we're sitting at the kitchen table. And she says, whose table is this? And we'd be like, well, are. She's like, no, Jesus is table. table. Whose fork is that? Ours. No, it's Jesus' fork.

And so we'd have to run these drills every morning with her because she didn't want us, I guess, to get mad because I think my sister once ran up to a group of missionaries that had come into our private kitchen once and were sitting and eating. And she ran up to them. It was like, that's our table. Get away from here. And she's like this two-year-old with like blonde curly hair. So yeah, that got us into saying her drills every morning. What did that feel like? It was weird. Did it make you feel like nothing was yours?

Yes. We had very little that was ours. And we couldn't show any type of anything that could be perceived as selfishness. So like if we were playing with toys and our sister wanted to play with a toy, you know, me or her. And the other one didn't like want to share. That was a big thing. It was instantly be forced to share. And that continued even growing up.

up. Like we weren't allowed to ever close our doors. If anyone wanted to come into our room, we had to let them. Like we had no say in our lives. There was nothing we were able to really control. You're living with a bunch of strangers, basically, even though I'm sure you got to know some of these people unknown to you, which is kind of a little bit interesting as a child to be around a lot of people you don't know in your home. Very much so. And I think that's probably why me and Hannah became so close. Like, even now, like, it was the two of us against the world. And we were just such a little unit throughout my entire childhood.

You had each other. Yeah, yeah. And it, I mean, it caused issues when other siblings came along, obviously, but for a while, we were happy. Yeah, there wasn't, it was interesting, there was a lot of stuff that happened very early on. And then there was like a blank period, and then it got really bad again. Like when we first moved to that home, I don't have many memories of the first moments there, but the memories I do have of are like really bad things.

I'm not sure what order these happened in, but I remember like we were just there. I think I was three and a half years old and my parents were in a fight. I don't know if I just got in between them or if I was trying to make them stop or if I was just annoyed that they were fighting and not paying attention to us. But I got in the way and my dad picked me up and walked me really quickly into another room and just from like standing up

threw me down on the floor. And I remember just like being at like eye level with him and then all of a sudden hitting the ground. And I like bruised my coxics like so bad. Like the tailbone like I couldn't walk properly for a couple days. And he slammed the door. And they went back to fighting. And I was just laughed in this room and it was like dark.

I'm so sorry. I was just so stunned. I think when that happened. And did your mom do anything or say anything? God, no. No. Was your dad physically abusive to her as well? I think so.

I didn't notice it until we got older. The stories that I hear was, It was pretty much as soon as they moved back to Scott when they started fighting, and he says she hit him first. So he hit her back. And apparently after then, it was like the gloves were off. And I don't understand that logic, but I guess that's what he uses to make himself feel better. It's interesting. I think my mother had a lot of mental health issues.

And I've often wondered if she was also on the spectrum or some sort of neurodivergency goals. going on there. My mother and father really don't believe in that mental illness is a thing at all. As this kind of separation from them has happened, I've grown closer with her mother. And her mother, my grandmother, told me that she, when she was born, there were complications. And I think there was actually a minute where she wasn't getting oxygen to her brain. And the doctor said that there were going to be some issues growing up. and that she had a very hard time in school. She was very determined.

And so once she decided she was going to do something, she was going to do it. But my grandmother was told by, I think, the school counselor or nurse. I'm not sure that my mother had an inability to distinguish between reality and a metaphor. And that was like, oh, my goodness. Like, I even told my 13-year-old brother that. And he was like, that explains everything. Like she wouldn't let us watch Disney growing up because they had things like mermaids and witches and those weren't real. And if you watched them, you would think they were real.

And even as like a four-year-old, well, we know they're clearly not real. But I think that was her not realizing that her inability to distinguish between that wasn't the same for everyone. It was interesting. My grandmother has always been portrayed by my parents, has been very aggrant to Christianity and hating that they found Christianity. And my grandmother told me last year that she said, your mother was like falling apart like in college. And at one point she ran away and they just didn't know where she was. And she was kind of living on the streets.

And when she found Christianity, it gave her like a framework to hold on to. And she kind of built herself back up around it. And I think that's part of the reason why she found her beliefs and it didn't matter what she wasn't letting go of them. and I think it's part of why she has still stuck by my dad because she found this belief that the two of them were destined to be together and they were called and God was going to use them in a certain way. And I even remember before all this went down and I was just like begging her to like get out or do something like protect your children. She'd be like no like God has a plan.

He's told me like great good things are going to happen. Like even then after years of all of this like I don't think she's capable of letting go of that because if she does, she'll fall apart. But she was interesting. If she believed that she was right, we used to call her the Holy Spirit, like she was our Holy Spirit because she wasn't going to let you go on with life until you like apologize for what she wanted you to. And so she was the type of person who, even a lot of times, you know, when I know my dad was trying to control himself, she would back him into a corner and he would try to run away and she would be following him down. And I think that was probably why it took so long to understand how abusive they both were

was because I didn't necessarily see my mother being this cowed woman that was being hurt. I saw her as an aggressor and my dad's snapping. It's difficult when both parties are abusive and I can relate because both of my parents were both physically abusive to us as kids, to each other and just toxic abusive emotional abusers as well. So I can relate. and I understand the sentiment of like in some situations, both parties are physically and emotionally abusing one another. And the whole climate is just toxic everywhere. And it's horrifying to grow up in. Yeah.

Well, and it was so normal at the time. And I think we, the type of Christianity we were raised in. Well, I can't even say the type of Christianity we were raised in because we were raised by our parents and we were homeschooled and we were never allowed out of the house. So they were the Christianity we were raised in. But it was very much focused on we are the parents and you will respect us. And we have all this authority given to us by God over you. And we have to answer to God. And I as the husband especially have to answer to God.

So there was this idea that it didn't matter how much they may have snapped at us. It was our fault for being disobedient. and we were reaping the repercussions of that. And it was their job to, you know, make sure that we didn't sin or grow up, you know, in a wrong way. You kind of got the sense that as long as we were going to heaven, it didn't really matter what happened to us on Earth. And as long as we were, you know, grew up into good Christians that didn't embarrass our parents, it didn't matter what happened in order to get us there. Wow. Were you homeschooled your whole life?

So I went to preschool for like a year or two, I think. And I remember that was weird. And I was definitely, I think I was pulled out of it because people could see definitely how strange I was. Like I was the kid around Christmas that made every other kid cry because someone told us that Santa was coming to visit. And I stood up and was very adamant. Santa wasn't real. And I remember one of the most pivotal moments I think in my life. and one of the times that I remember the most was being in just like a normal classroom. And one of my

friends was talking to me something about Christianity. And I said something along the lines of, oh, well, I don't know if I really believe that. And this is like a three or four year old. And I don't know if someone told my dad or if I even told my dad. Knowing me, I probably felt so safe with him in a weird way. Like we just, that thing of like you have to tell me everything. And so you do. I think I might have told him that I said that. And he, He said, well, you just denied Christ. And you could go to hell because of that. Because the Bible says that if you deny me in front of others, I will deny you in front of my father.

And you're in danger of going to hell. Like, it was fear, fear-based. And I think that's how they ran their lives honestly. They wouldn't say that. But I think fear definitely controlled a lot of what happened. Hell was pretty much as much of a fixture in our house as the TV was. My parents from a very young age, and even when I got older and had other friends, they were obsessed with getting people to understand how horrible and real hell was

so that they would look for something to save them from that. That was the tactic. And so I was horrifically terrified of hell from like, That's as long as I can remember. And I have memories from being like two years old and being terrified of hell and having nightmares about that. And to the point where you felt like you wanted to throw up because you were so terrified. Wow. They kind of were surrounded with a lot of like awful evangelical tracts and books and even like videos that were kind of geared that way.

And so they would tell us about it. But then they would have all these visual depictions. and I've always had a very strong imagination. And so when I dream, I have these dreams where I almost slip into more of like a lucid type of dreaming, where I know I'm dreaming, but I can also feel things, so I can feel pain. And all of that just kind of melded together for it to be a very real thing. I was always terrified of demons. My parents have always been obsessed with witches and demons,

and demons out to get them. Like, you would be fighting with my mom, and she would just suddenly look at it and be like, I don't like that tone. You've got a spirit of whatever in you. Like, you're being controlled by a spirit right now. We need to pray and cast that spirit out of this house. I was often, as a child, when I'd get in trouble,

put into a dark room. And I was terrified of the dark. I've been as terrified of the dark as long as I could remember. And we lived in this old house, and it was huge. It was just us. And my parents, I guess, when they moved in, there was some sort of furniture that they didn't like or that they thought had like demonic stuff on it. Basically, I think the person that had left stuff there, there was some like new agey

type things in the house. And my parents basically took that, that they were worshipping Satan. So they always kind of felt like there was just presence in the house that they were fighting against. And they weren't quiet about it. And so for me, I remember at one point, being terrified to the point of feeling like I was going to pass out to go upstairs just to change into my pajamas. And I would beg people to come with me and sometimes my sister would, but my parents never did. And it was like, well, if you're scared, that means you don't trust God enough. So you need to get up there and trust God. So I would go up and I remember I would go into the room, squeeze my eyes shut and to like a turn on the lights.

And I was terrified to open my eyes as I turned on the lights because I was scared I would see like, things like hiding, you know, like you turn on the lights and something like flies into the closet or whatever. And that was so real and visceral for me at that age. Like I would quickly get dressed and then I would run down the stairs back to the living room and I would just always feel like something was like trying to grab my ankle. Like it just felt like something was behind me the whole time. I think part of my very strong imagination and be able to like visualize something to where I have a physical reaction to it is part of whatever autistic trait, you know, that I have. That's on that spectrum. And so they believed in it so wholeheartedly. And my mother is South African and my dad

grew up in South Africa. And so the idea of which doctors and people being kidnapped and their bodies used in like all kind of rituals, like that was a thing where they grew up. So for them, it was very much a very real thing. And I think they even had a lot of fear of it themselves. It translated to us. So my dad had a very rough childhood. And I think growing up hearing about how horrible his childhood was made us feel like ours was amazing. So he had a very rough childhood, but he was basically a drug addict, alcoholic, chain smoker. He says he was into Satanism. I don't know if that's true or not.

I think he had a very bad trip and had a sleep paralysis attack. But basically he said he had this attack where his spirit guide attack. attacked him and he was on the bed and he couldn't move and she was like climbing up towards him and he had just spoken with a like evangelical street preacher that he had cussed out and ran away from a couple days before and so he you know called out the name Jesus and it disappeared and he didn't sleep apparently for like three days after that and then went to church and went up to the altar to get saved and the guy the preacher came up to him put his hand on his head looked at him and said,

okay, Satan, you're not having him anymore. And apparently after that, my dad was no longer a drug addict and no longer an alcoholic, like that. And I think it was 100% the case of like whatever happened in that moment, whatever he was relying on was instantly replaced by that face and that type of thinking. It sort of feels sometimes like treating one addiction for another. Yes. Well, and that was the thing. It was like, well, I was instantly set free from my drug addictions and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And until, you know, much later, I realized, okay, but you weren't set free or healed from the emotional issues you had from your abusive father or the fear and the shame that you live your daily life out every day. And I think it was like in his brain, he was like, well, I don't suffer from this anymore. So everything's good. And he knows.

never, like, actually took the time to grow as a human outside of that. And there was this whole subsection of Christianity around that time that we're trying to reach out to the hippies and the druggies and whatnot. And they would literally call it you're addicted to Jesus. You're high on the spirit. And it was all this stuff about you were supposed to have similar situations and feel as if you were drunk or if you were high, but it was just on the spirit. And they, I feel like they took a whole generation of people who, you know, were using drugs for pleasure or to hide something and switched them over and basically, yeah, took the pipe out of one hand and put the Bible in the other and never took the time to understand why were they using it in the first place.

And it was, especially in the culture I grew up in, the more you could exhibit those high or drunk-like behaviors in church, the more holy and spiritual. you were. Can we talk about that a little more? I would love to hear some examples from you once your parents actually started their church there and what it was what the culture was like. Oh yeah. Yeah. So I remember as, I think just before we moved to being terrified in England because I knew I had to invite Jesus into my heart, but in my brain, I thought they were going to have to cut my heart open and put a little person inside. And I fretted about it for about six months because I knew I had to do it, but I was scared because I thought it was going to be painful. I thought it was going to hurt. And so I was basically like this two-year-old kid trying to work up the courage to go and like willingly put myself

through that. And then when I did actually finally say the sinner's prayer, I was by myself, well, by myself in a mix to see if kids in this like Sunday school area and they were trying to get kids to say the prayer. And I remember kneeling and I put my head on the floor and said the prayer and I was just like, okay, this is it. And then like nothing happened. And I remember being like so stunned. My parents were talking about like, oh, she was so excited. You could just see the difference once Jesus came into her heart and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I think I was just high off the fact that I didn't have to go through open heart surgery without any anesthetic. Like, I was so excited when I realized that I wasn't actually going to have to, like,

go through this horrific experience. But that's how real that was and how much obligation we felt to go through with that. Thinking of telling my kids that there's, like, demons and shit in the house and them ever wanting to go to sleep in their own beds ever again is, like, pretty slim. They don't even want to sleep in their beds as it is. I can't imagine if their hearts were and minds were conditioned in such a way to the point where you're like feeling sick to go be in a room and get your pajamas on. Yes.

You were terrified to do anything and then criticized for feeling that fear because you were supposed to understand that that was all there, but then not be afraid of that because you had Jesus. And greater is he who is in you than he who is in the world. And, you know, you have an angel right next to you. I'm like, cool. I can't see the angel. And it's really dark and I don't know what's going to happen.

And I was naughty. And you keep telling me that if I'm naughty, I'm going to go to hell. So I don't know what to do. It was a mind fuck. Such a mind fuck. This idea of like if you got yourself into a position where you were terrified of demons and because they're going to take you to hell with them, what did you do that made them want to do that? And, you know, it was always your fault.

And then if you couldn't like calm down enough to go to sleep, it was your fault because you weren't trusting God. and it was just always the sense of shame and the sense of like, I'm so, like, fucked up. And it doesn't matter how hard I try. It's not going to work. Like, I remember around that time where my dad told me that I was going to go to hell because I told someone that I didn't know if I believed in God, I remember I would get scared and I just kept saying, like,

the sinner's prayer again and again and again and being like, maybe I'm saved this time. Like, yeah. It's so harmful to your mental, health and when your groundwork is being laid and that's the foundation, it's so harmful for your self-identity and your ability to trust yourself. No, you were not supposed to trust yourself. And it was so well set up to control us.

Like it's unbelievable thinking back because you were literally taught that they would use these Bible scriptures we were talked about. You have to read the Bible every day because if you don't, the world's going to fit you into their mold. And the world's always trying to brainwash you. So why don't you already brainwash yourself with Jesus? Like that was what they used. Like they willingly said, yes, we're brainwashing you.

But everyone else is trying to brainwash you. So we're just trying to control what you're brainwashed with. And so that you had that idea in your head. And so people would be like, oh, this is weird. All you're brainwashed. And you were trained to be like, yes, I am. You know, and that's a good thing. There was so much like grooming.

preventative measures that went into place that made it so it was like almost impossible to get out of. By design. Yes, very much so. Well, and I've noticed this thing in Christianity where they're obsessed with children appearing spiritual. Like, it's this amazing thing. Like, I know they have the verses where it's like, a child shall lead them and out of the mouth of babes and blah, blah, blah. And I saw all of these kids being, and me myself, included being like this, you know, is how you're supposed to worship. And oh my gosh, it's so

amazing if you're not embarrassed enough to raise your hands or speak in tongues or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so these kids would. And they'd be like, oh, my gosh, the spirit is moving amongst the children. And as I got older, well, growing up, I would never have those experiences naturally. And so sometimes I would fake it and I would feel such shame and like hatred. And as I got older, I began to realize, well, no, we're just mimicking. because that's what I did. I mimicked. But I was an amazing spiritual kid. And oh, my goodness, my parents were so proud of me. And everyone would talk about how, you know, how connected to Jesus we were. So mind-washed and in an environment that didn't teach them to think for themselves, I didn't even teach them to think, really.

Because you weren't supposed to think, because you were a fallen creation. And even though you were saved, your body was still fallen. And the devil was trying to attack you every single day. And you had to listen to those above you and be taught. taught by those above you about Jesus in order to be good. So if you had a thought that didn't agree with anything that you were being told, you were trained to say, oh, well, that must be the devil trying to talk to me. So your ability to think was eradicated almost. And I remember from a very young age, my mom would say, you have to learn to speak in tongues because when you speak in tongues, you're speaking in the language that only God knows.

And so then the devil can't hear what you're saying and use it against you. Like there was this very much idea of the devil doesn't know what's going on in your head, only what you say. And so you have to be very careful about what you say because then he's going to take it and use it against you. Which is also a great way to stop your kids from telling people about what's going on in their house. They would always talk about getting into the upper throne room. And I've heard about growing up, you know, the seven or nine layers of hell. whatever, but they always had this like layers of throne room. And so it was this idea that you would be so connected to God in prayer that your mind would be transported into God's heavenly throne room while

your body was still on earth. And then I guess if you were really good or he liked the way you were praying, he would take you into the upper throne room. I don't know why he has so many throne rooms, but they thought that. So this was like God's VIP rooms? Is that what's happening right now? And you would reach them? Yes. And it was like, You were all here praying, but this person legitimately was in heaven right now. Like, they were face to face with God. And there'd be talks of, you know, they would start giggling or shaking. And they would come down.

And it was like that you would have thought like Justin Bieber just walked in the room. Like they were celebrities. Like everyone was like, oh my gosh. Who would go? My mother mostly. To the throne room? Yeah. My mother, some other people in the church.

It was like, if you managed to. to make it there, it was like a big deal. And they would always criticize the other Christians in the town that we were with because they were quote unquote dead because they didn't believe in the gifts of the spirit. And when they prayed, it was like, oh, thank you, God, for this beautiful day I had in the walk that I went on and I saw this flower and I thought of you. And they would make fun of that. And I would make fun of that. And as I grew up, I'm like, that's actually a really sweet experience that that person had. And I can't believe that our entire church was almost centered around making fun of that. My parents were very heavily into what they

called spiritual warfare. And I think a lot of evangelical churches have kind of grasped onto that, or did grasp onto that. I grew up reading the Frank Peretti books, which was very much around the idea of angels and demons are always fighting. And the more the church is praying or practicing spiritual warfare, the more we're energizing God and his angels to fight. And so, And so that's how they beat the devil. And so praying in tongues, my mom would say, you have to do that every day because you're strengthening your spirit. And it was like this workout you had to do to make sure you had a strong spirit. And so if I was feeling scared or if I was having issues, it was like, well, have you been praying in tongues? No. Well, then you need to do that more. The Holy Grail was like casting out a demon growing up. Like that was like the big deal. But I never saw any of that growing up. How did you know when someone had a demon? demon. One of my parents told us. Like your parents would decide somebody had a demon? Well, and it was interesting because there was half of the church believed that you could be saved and still get possessed. And the other half believed that if you got possessed by a demon, you were never

saved in the first place. So as crazy as it sounds, there were people crazier than my family around at that time. And they would often come into the church and get into fights with my parents about stuff. Most of what would happen was they would reach out to drug addicts and alcoholics in the area and or someone who was depressed or whatnot and well they had a spirit of depression in them where they had a spirit of alcoholism or a spirit of drugs in them and that needed to be cast out. I remember them praying, well hearing stories of them where they would talk about like how this person like prayed and like threw up. like mind throwing up like this spirit out of them.

And that I think is pretty common in those more evangelical circles, this idea of like that's how you visualize yourself expelling it, which honestly I think is probably more of like a psychosomatic reaction to feeling like there's something inside of you that you have to get out. And you mentioned about the darkness in your parents like putting you in the dark. Was that related to religion at all? or it's an abuse tactic? I think that was just an abuse tactic. My mother was definitely the one who was more on the

ooky-cookie side of that. I think my father was more just, I know you don't like this, so get in there. It was definitely a thing that progressed as I got older. My parents planted their church with two ladies that were in our, I don't know, inner circle, people that had become friends with us after we moved and like babysat us. And so we planted the church.

It was just them. And I remember my parents talking about how everyone else in the area was out to get them, all the other churches. And we'd always talk about how like, well, the non-Christian people love us. It's the safe people that don't like us. And, you know, that means that we're just too Christian for them, I guess. They're always obsessed with this idea of like they were the Pharisees. And we were the good Christians who, you know, weren't getting caught up in the religion or the law of the day.

Like very much that kind of Billy Graham preaching to hippie things where it's like, I'm not preaching religion, it's a relationship. A very abusive relationship, apparently. I think around that time they kind of poached a couple other people from other churches and then other people started gravitating towards them. usually people who weren't stable, as a way to put it. And we had a lot of people who, I think had really great intentions and kind of got sucked in by my parents.

My parents are very charismatic, very charismatic, very likable. And we were adorable as kids, so that helped. We had people live with us. We had a family that moved in with us, I think when we were like five. And they lived with us for a couple of years. And after that, they also started accepting, I think there were like Bible college students from the church in England who wanted to like intern. And so they would come live with us for like three months or six months.

And sometimes they would end up staying. So that was when kind of like more of the commune behavior started where it was like multiple adults in this house. And a lot of times it was like they were all given permission to discipline us. And we had to call them Auntie and Uncle. I hated that. to call everyone anti this, uncle that. And I couldn't stand that, but we were like forced to. We were told it was either anti or uncle or Mr. and Mrs. And I think once people started living together was when my parents real like desire to control things happened. That's when things got

like really bad again. Because all of a sudden there were people at home to see how naughty I was being or to see how disrespectful we were being or blah, blah, blah. But then also my parents, I think now that these people were living in their home, became part of that like circle that they had to control. And one of the weirder things that we saw looking back that I see happen again and again was my parents would become friends with a nice Christian lady. And then they would find a damaged male. And they would try to get them together.

And when the lady said, no, I don't like him or no, like he scares me. And the man left the church, it was that woman's full. It was insanity. I mean, one of the two that started the church with us, she babysat us. Like, she is someone that I adore. And some of my best memories from my, you know, childhood were not with my parents. It was with her. She used to take us to her home and we used to make blueberry muffins or she would fill her sink up with dishwashing liquid.

And we'd like pretend that we were working in a restaurant. We were washing dishes. And I don't know why we liked that. that we did. She and a person in our church that lived with us for a while, we were very close with him. And he became like a second dad to us. And then all of a sudden my parents said, nope, you can't go near him anymore. We didn't want you playing with him. And I said, why? Like, what's going on? Like, this is uncle, you know, so-and-so. We love him. Because he really was there for us when our father wasn't. And they said, well, your dad's jealous. Your little sister called this other guy dad the other day.

And your dad's really jealous of him. And that was really hard. And Jesus didn't care about that. Jesus didn't say get out jealous demon or anything. I'm just clarifying. No jealous demons in there? Okay. Yeah, no.

The demons were apparently very particular growing up. Very selective demons. Yeah. So as people began to basically move in with you, you're saying, and you would have different families or students and things, your parents would also begin, they would begin to control you and had permission to discipline you and your siblings, you and your sister at this time. But also your parents were sort of controlling them as well. So it was sort of like a chain of command. Yeah. You kind of fell into this pecking order. And a lot of times there would be fights. And like I would walk into my mother having a screaming match with another woman. And it was they were, my parents were obsessed with this idea of people trying to claim their authority or recover.

You know, people were trying to sneak into the church and, like, ruin the church, or they were trying to steal it for themselves. And it created a lot of tension in the house. And for me, I remember the mother of the family that moved in with us, I felt like hated me and singled me out and got me into trouble whenever she could. I don't know if that's true. And, you know, I'm actually pretty close with her now that we're out of all of this. And she says that was not the case at all. But at the time, that's how it felt. And I think I was probably feeding into the fight that her and my mother were having. Like, you know, they felt like they were trying to like take rice through the ranks and take their place as leaders of the church to the point where like my father would have to come stomping down and like separate them. So there was a lot of conflict in the house. Oh, yeah. Always.

Always. So that was really hard. And I felt like I think I became more distant and more hashtag rebellious. because of all of that. In a weird way, I think my autism saved me. I think my autism is the reason I did not turn into a drone of my parents. Because part of the way my brain works is that I'm very much logical and A plus B equals C. And if it doesn't, that means one of these isn't either A or B.

And the older I got, the more I began to see of how my parents would twist the truth to fit what they wanted it to. in that moment. And I would fight against it. And I was often labeled rebellious. My mom would use the verse where they talk about rebellious, rebellion is as witchcraft. And, you know, the Bible says that you should not, you know, suffer a witch to live. And so you're putting yourself in God's crosshairs by being rebellious. And, you know, he's going to kill you. So my mom and my dad would often, like, lose their temper and lash out of us. But my mother was the one who, really created the system of corporal punishment in the home. She had this, like, tally system.

And if you got so many tallies, like, you were spanked, like we were probably spanked multiple times a day. And when we got older and, you know, became more rebellious, she brought my father into the mix. And it's interesting because she was the one who pushed that, not my father. My father would ignore it until he snapped and lashed out at you and hit you. But he didn't, I don't think he enjoyed the corporal punishment. side of things. My mother seemed to thrive off of it to the point where she, they would like make us

wait outside the bathroom where they were spanking us so we had to listen to the other one being spanked. My mom broke a wooden spoon over my back multiple times. Her favorite thing, she would always try to find like the best implements and she found this like a long kind of rubber ruler. And she really liked that, which I mean essentially ended up being more of a can. pain. And you would go in and basically you, my mother would sit on a chair and you had to bend over and like hold on to her waist and she would basically hold you down and keep you there while my father spanked us. And it was incredibly traumatic. Like I, to this day, like, but she was like, everything to her was a fight for control. Like she always, like she would, was, she treated us like you see. like depictions of people in the wild west how you have to like break the horses you know will like that's how it was with us it was like it was a fight and i had that sense from like the moment this started of you were trying to destroy me and i have regardless of whether i did something wrong i have to fight against you because i will like lose myself if i don't um and so me and her went at it you know from as long as i can remember it was just battle after battle after battle. I got, you know, hit worse than anyone else in my family because I could not keep my mouth shut. I could not just accept that I lost this round, you know, I couldn't be, I refused to be

viewed as something I wasn't or to be blamed for something I didn't do. And I got a lot of extra beatings because of that. The spanking became such a part of our lives. It was like woven into every single day. And my parents believed in it so strongly, like my dad would all, always say like, oh, the government's out to get Christians and the government's out to do this and they're trying to stop them from spanking our kids. And, you know, I'll gladly go to prison for spanking my kids, which it really feels like a full circle moment. Spare the rod, right? Yeah. Well, and it was this thing of this, like he would always say this, this hurts me more than it hurts you. And I have to do this because I'm going to stand in front of God one day. And I have to

give an account for my actions. And it became this thing of like, this is your full. and how dare you put me through this, having to do this to you? When I talk to, like, therapists and whatnot, like, they're always stunned by the amount of spiritual abuse. Like I always said, if my parents were just mean and hit me, it'd probably be a lot easier to deal with. But the amount of spiritual coercion and control and abuse that goes into it means you're never really mad at them because they're just doing what God wants them to do. And they're trying to protect you. And so once this all falls apart, you basically, like, the person that you're serving, being is your abuser and you're trained.

I think that's why so many abusive people thrive in these environments because people are trained in, you know, a lot of ways to live in an abusive relationship with, you know, their God that they're worshipping. And so it's very natural for them to fall into other abusive relationships along the way. It's like they're carrying the abusive torch. Yeah. Like I think things started off more normal. And then around like six or seven, I think was when things got really weird.

Next time. You think you know me, you don't know me well at all. You think you know me you don't know me well. Something was wrong is written, recorded, edited, and produced by me, Tiffany Reese. Music by Gladrags. Thank you so much. each and every survivor for sharing their story. If you'd like to support the growth of the podcast, you can leave us a five-star review on iTunes, support the podcast on patreon.com, share the podcast with

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