Something You Should Know - A Better Way to Create New Ideas & How to Take Control Of Difficult Conversations

Episode Date: June 15, 2023

When you think how much your smartphone costs to buy and maintain, it’s a smart idea to try to make it last as long as possible. This episode begins with some simple ways to extend the life of your phone and battery. https://www.popsci.com/diy/how-to-make-your-phone-last-longer/ Some of the very best and most successful ideas are the result of lateral thinking. Uber and Airbnb are two examples and there are many more that you will hear from my guest Paul Sloane. Paul is a recognized authority on innovation and creativity and author of several books including Lateral Thinking for Every Day: Extraordinary Solutions to Ordinary Problems (https://amzn.to/3Nl5ynz). If you could use a new way to solve problems and look for solutions, you need to hear what Paul has to say.  Do you ever avoid certain conversations because it is just not worth it? Or ever find yourself in a conversation that is going nowhere or disintegrates into an argument? It happens to all of us. However, there are ways to have those conversations and control them in a way that is actually productive and leaves people feeling heard. That is what Sam Horn is here to discuss. Sam is founder of Tongue Fu! Training Institute (https://www.tonguefu.com/) that promotes stronger communication in corporations, government agencies, schools, and nonprofits. She is also the author of the book Talking on Eggshells: Soft Skills for Hard Conversations (https://amzn.to/45SbYBT). There is a theory that says you should buy gasoline in the morning when the weather is cooler. That way you will get more for your money. Listen as we explore the theory and whether it is worth getting up early to fill your tank. https://drivinvibin.com/2022/03/17/morning-fuel/ PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Keep American farming going by signing up at https://MoinkBox.com/SYSK  RIGHT NOW and listeners of this show get FREE filet mignon for a year! Now your ideas don’t have to wait. Dell Technologies and Intel are creating technology that loves ideas, expanding your business & evolving your passions. Find out how to bring your ideas to life at https://Dell.com/welcometonow ! Discover Credit Cards do something pretty awesome. At the end of your first year, they automatically double all the cash back you’ve earned! See terms and check it out for yourself at https://Discover.com/match Let’s find “us” again by putting our phones down for five.  Five days, five hours, even five minutes. Join U.S. Cellular in the Phones Down For Five challenge! Find out more at https://USCellular.com/findus If you own a small business, you know the value of time. Innovation Refunds does too! They've made it easy to apply for the employee retention credit or ERC by going to https://getrefunds.com to see if your business qualifies in less than 8 minutes! Innovation Refunds has helped small businesses collect over $3 billion in payroll tax refunds! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Download June's Journey now on Android or iOS. Today on Something You Should Know, simple ways that will make your smartphone battery charge better and last longer. Then a very effective way to solve problems and create new ideas. It's called lateral thinking. I would say that Uber and Airbnb are fantastic examples of lateral thinking. You can't develop a taxi company into Uber. It requires a completely different approach.

Or Airbnb, a hotel company that doesn't own a single hotel room. How lateral is that? Also, does it matter what time of day you fill up your gas tank? And some great advice for having those difficult conversations. For instance... When people complain, don't explain. Because we think if something goes wrong and we explain to the person why we didn't return their call or why they didn't get their package or why their table isn't ready yet, people will forgive us.

Actually, they get angrier. All this today on Something You Should Know. Bumble knows it's hard to start conversations. Hey. No, too basic. Hi there. Still no. What about hello, handsome? Who knew you could give yourself the ick? That's why Bumble is changing how you start conversations.

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should know you know i'll bet your smartphone that you carry around all day costs a lot of money it costs a lot of money to buy it, and then you have to pay every month to maintain it and keep it connected. And one way to make sure your smartphone lasts a long time so you don't have to get a new one is to take good care of the battery. One way is to reduce strain on the battery by charging it slower when you can. Both Android and Apple phones allow you to charge the battery slower over longer periods of time, like when you charge it overnight. On an Apple phone, you open the settings and choose Battery, and then choose Battery Health and Charging,

and then choose Optimized Battery Charging. That turns the feature on. On an Android phone, you go from settings to battery, adaptive preferences, and then adaptive charging. If your phone knows that it can take a long time to charge, like when you charge it overnight, then it will take a long time and that puts less strain on the battery. Other ways to improve your phone battery's life, keep it away from extreme temperatures, like in a hot car. Take it out of the case when you're charging it. And if you have to store your phone for a long period of time, store it so the battery is half-charged. In other

words, it's not almost dead, and it's not fully charged, because both of those extremes will shorten the battery's life. And that is something you should know. Sometimes I find myself getting stuck in my thinking. Like when I go to solve a problem, often I'll try to solve it the way I've solved other problems. I think we all get a little set in our ways. Still, we hear about new ways to think, of coming up with ideas, new ways to solve problems and create new things. And what you have to do is just change the way you think, change the way you see the problem. And one way you may

have heard of is something called lateral thinking. And it's kind of cool and worth exploring. And I have just the person to help us do that. Paul Sloan is a recognized authority on innovation and creativity. He has written several books on the topic, and his latest is called Lateral Thinking for Every Day, Extraordinary Solutions to Ordinary Problems. Hi, Paul. Hey, thanks for coming on Something You Should Know. Great to be with you, Mike.

So I know I've heard the phrase lateral thinking before, and when I think about it, it sort of sounds like it's related to think outside the box, but what is it exactly? What is lateral thinking? In contrast to vertical thinking, where we build block on block, we do things the conventional way, we proceed in a straightforward manner. Lateral means coming at the problem from the side. And thinking outside the box is another term for it, I guess. It's a form of creative thinking. It's just a way of approaching issues and problems in particular, where you're looking for offbeat, weird, sideways type solutions. Can you give me like a very brief, simple example that maybe we would know of lateral thinking in

action? There was a little old woman and when she was sitting at home, if she heard a ring at the doorbell at the front door, she would put her hat and coat on, and then she would go and answer the door. And if it was somebody who she wanted to meet, she'd say, oh, I've just arrived home. Come in. We can have a cup of tea. If it was someone she didn't want to chat to, she'd say, oh, I'm sorry. I'm just on my way out. We must meet some other time.

Now, that's an example of lateral thinking in action, maybe a little facile one. But there are lots of serious ones, too. I would say that Uber and Airbnb are fantastic examples of lateral thinking. You can't develop a taxi company into Uber. It requires a completely different approach to harness all the people who drive for a small fee. Or Airbnb, a hotel company that doesn't own a single hotel room. How lateral is that? Well, when I hear those examples like Airbnb or Uber or Lyft, I wonder if what they did

was let's do some lateral thinking here and come up with a new idea. Or is this just a way to retrospectively categorize what they did? That it wasn't intentionally lateral thinking. It's just, well, you know, as we look back on this, how is lateral thinking? Well, all I'm saying is they didn't approach it from the point of view of Marriott Hotels or the Pasadena Taxi Company that's saying, how can we develop, how can we do something new? And they think straightforward from where they are. They started in an entirely different place and came out the problem saying, is there an entirely different way to solve the customer's

needs? And that's what lateral thinking is all about. And that's why lateral thinking, I think, is the key to innovation. Okay. But saying, is there another way, isn't a way. It's saying, is there another way? So what's the way? How do you do that lateral thinking? Because it sounds very accidental and very lucky. And there's probably a lot of examples where it doesn't work. And so make it real for me. Well, exactly right. There are many things that you'll think of that don't work. but there are techniques you can use to displace yourself out of your normal thinking zone. So we all operate in our thinking in a comfort zone, and we tend to think similar things, do similar things, approach problems in similar ways, especially at work and in our social lives. We are creatures of habit, and we do

pretty much the same things most days. But there are ways, techniques that you can use, which I describe in my workshops and in my books, which displace you. For example, the random word technique where you've got a problem and you define the problem. And then you take a dictionary and you open the dictionary anywhere. And the first noun that you come to you list some associates associations of that now and then you try and force a solution an idea from that between that word or any of its associations and the problem and people don't believe this works until I do it with them and when I do it with a group the first word might not work very well the second word not minor but sooner or later you'll get a word which gives some incredibly brilliant and different and radical idea for solving the problem because the whole

group is starting from an entirely different uh point of view and you when you just said people think it doesn't work it doesn't sound like it would work it seems no but i know that's why you've got to try it um i gave a tedx talk and and I showed it live in the TEDx talk where the problem was how to get more visitors to Brighton. And I think the word we got was peel. And then we came up with a whole bunch of ideas based on orange peel and peel of bells and peel of laughter and all sorts of different peels and naked people peeling off their clothes. And each of these gave us a different rich source of ideas for how to bring more visitors to the town so that's the way it works rich ideas or good ideas well well radical ideas

many of which were silly many of which are worthless some of which are you know impossible but occasionally out in there you find a nugget And so the process is you generate a lot of ideas, and then you go through them, and you sift them into a short list of potential ones. Then you discuss them in some depth and some critical way using some agreed criteria. And eventually, you might refine one or two real nuggets that are really valuable. Sounds very time-consuming. Oh, it's time-cons consuming, but it's fun. And you'll get an idea which may pay back, you know, 100 times. In conversations like this, I think examples always help bring it to life, put a face on it. So what are some examples of people doing what you just described? An American group called Wolfpack. They're a funk band based

in Ann Arbor, Michigan. And they had a small number of loyal followers. They wanted to do a tour for their followers across the USA, but they didn't have the funds to do that. And they didn't have the resources to release an album and promote it widely. But they did notice something in the terms and conditions of Spotify, which is very interesting. Spotify, as you know, you can play anything you want on there. And any track which is played for more than 30 seconds registers a tiny, absolutely tiny royalty to the originator. And Spotify gets its revenue from advertising and subscriptions. Wolfpack created an album called Sleepify. And on there, there are 10 or 12 tracks, each of them about 32 seconds long,

containing no music. And they said to their fans, just leave this playing on loop on Spotify overnight when you put it on your computer and it will just circulate and it'll play these tracks over and over again. And it generated in the end, nearly $20,000 worth of revenue for them, which Spotify identified the problem,

but they were as good as their word, they paid up. They then changed their terms of reference that couldn't happen again, but it got them the money they wanted and it gave them tremendous publicity all around the world because it was a clever way of raising money um and it's just there's always a different way there's always a lateral approach there's always a different way of doing things and they found it you know one of the most common examples i give is shopping if you went to a shop in 1920 it it would have been like a Victorian shop. The assistant

would serve you. You'd go in, you'd ask for some lard or some butter or some bacon, and they'd go to the back of the store and they'd get what you want and bring it to you. And the server would bring one piece at a time, then run up the total or charge you. And meanwhile, there's a big queue of people behind you, a line of people waiting to be served. And the man called Michael Cullen said, what would happen if we turned the shop around and instead of the assistant serving the customer, the customer served themselves? They just went around and collected goods in a basket and then they paid at the end. And I'll bet people said, that's a really stupid idea. They'll get confused. They're wandering around the back of the store. You have to put prices on everything.

He said, I'm going to try it. He created the world's first supermarket, the King Cullen Store in New Jersey. And it's a tiny idea. Turn the shop around and let the customer serve themselves rather than the assistant serve the customer. Its impact has been enormous. And it's just, instead of developing the normal way, you do something in an entirely different way come at it from from a different direction it almost seems like lateral thinking is more fun when you look at it at successful examples than it is to actually do it because it's kind of hard to do it it's hard to to think in a different way isn't it it is but children do it every day children think laterally every day they come up with crazy things you give them a box to play in and suddenly it's a castle and a ship and other things and they ask

really weird questions really weird questions um and and their view of the world is constantly changing and they're trying to put things together in different ways in the same way that picasso put the world together in a different way or miles davis or salvador dali they put the world together in different children put the world together in different ways way or Miles Davis or Salvador Dali they put the world together in different ways, children put the world together in different ways but we gradually grind that out of them at school and we tell them there's a right answer to most questions, you've got to learn the right answer well there are multiple answers to most questions in life and there isn't just one right answer there isn't just one way to run a taxi company as Travis

Kalanick showed with Uber. Lateral thinking is the topic today. We're talking with Paul Sloan, who is an expert in innovation and creativity, and his book is Lateral Thinking for Every Day. This is an ad for better help. Welcome to the world. Please read your personal owner's manual thoroughly. In it, you'll find simple instructions for how to interact with your fellow human Thank you, and have a nice life. Visit BetterHelp.com to learn more. That's BetterHelp.com. Metrolinks and Crosslinks are reminding everyone to be careful as Eglinton Crosstown LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert as trains can pass at any time on the tracks. Remember to follow all traffic signals. Be careful along our tracks and only make left turns where it's safe to do so.

Be alert, be aware, and stay safe. So Paul, when I hear people talking about coming up with ideas and new ways to come up with new ideas, new ideas are great, but new ideas aren't necessarily better ideas they're just different they're new well different is better i would argue um if you read a book like purple cow by seth godin very famous in this day what he said was it's not sufficient to be better it's more important to be different and because there are so many um similar things around today that just being another restaurant, just being another hotel, just being another bookstore ain't gonna cut it. To cut through the noise

and to get people to recognize you, you have to do something different. And lateral thinking is the key to different. I'm not saying you should be wildly inefficient and stupid, but being different is a very, very powerful thing in marketing and in business and in your social life too. If you're the same as everyone else, I think you're a pretty dull person. If you're different, you're going to be more interesting. So what other ways are there to stimulate this kind of thinking? Because if you say to me, Mike, I want you to think differently. Well, geez, OK.

I don't know. Maybe. How? My advice would be to deliberately do something different every day. Break your routine. So if you normally go to the bridge club, go to the jazz club. If you normally watch Fox News, watch CNN. You know, if you normally do something, do something completely different. Take a different

route to work. Read a book. Go to the library and take out some random books. Go to a museum or an art gallery you've never been to. Get some stimulation. Deliberately introduce the random and the different into your world. There was a visitor to the USA. I forget where he was from, and he wanted to see the real USA. He didn't want to just see the tourist sites. And what he did was he'd go to a town and then he'd queue up at either the Greyhound bus station or the railway station. And the person in front of him, wherever they said they were going, he'd ask for a ticket to that place. Then he'd go there and spend a couple of days looking around that place. And then he'd go to the Greyhound bus station or the train station, stand behind someone and whatever the person in front of him in the line said, if they said, I want to go to

Milwaukee, he'd go to Milwaukee. If they said, I want to go to Pasadena, he'd go to Pasadena. And he took a random route around the USA. And I'll bet he saw more of the real USA than 99% of tourists who just go and see the Statue of Liberty and the Grand Canyon and the Golden Gate Bridge. As wonderful as lateral thinking is, or any method of problem solving or creating new ideas, many times things fail. They don't work out. So do we know, is there a pattern of when ideas or solutions fail why they fail yeah there's been a lot of research on this and and they reckon that one of the main reasons why some startups succeed and other startups fail is timing it's luck it's happenstance if you happen to be in the right

place in the right market at the right time, you can succeed. And if your invention and the market isn't ready for it, the technology doesn't quite work, the support infrastructure isn't there, then it fails. And to some extent, you've got to try these things and see what happens. And Eric Ries wrote a very good book called The Lean Startup. And what he says in there is the key to a successful startup is a minimum viable product. You start with the smallest, crappiest version that you can make, a mock-up, a wireframe, a model, a series of screen mock-ups. And you show it to the customers and you say, is this what you want? And they'll say, well, we like like this but we don't like this and instead of spending a lot of time building a prototype which is is complete you build the minimum viable

version you can get for a few thousand dollars if you can and off you go and you test it and and the purpose of that prototype is not payback, it's feedback. Is there an example that comes to mind of who did that and did it well? Well I'll tell you someone who didn't do it well was Segway. So the Segway, you remember that machine, it was going to revolutionize movement and it was kept under tight wraps. It was a state secret. Only a handful of people knew what it was like and then they announced it and to great fanfare and they thought it's going to change the world and it didn't go down well people

thought it looked a bit silly because they hadn't tested it with customers they hadn't been out there they hadn't got that feedback and most really successful startup companies nowadays do try this fast feedback and FMCG companies Procter & Gamble Johnson Johnson & Johnson, Unilever, they'll often produce a number of a potential product and they put, you know, 100 of them on the shelves and they just watch and see if customers go for them. And if the customers don't like them, they withdraw the product,

the mock-ups, and if it works, then they'll roll it out. So they've learned that the best way to test a product is to test the product not to trip to do it with a focus group not to do it with analysis and spreadsheets, but actually put it in the marketplace in real world situation, and see what the customers like and what they don't like. I want to go back to you had said, and I've heard this advice before, you know, take a different route to work, do things differently. And I've done that. And

but do you know, is there any evidence as to what that's supposed to do? Or it just sounds like that's a good thing to do because it gets you out of your routine, but nobody really knows what it does. Well, there was some, you know, there was a tube strike in England a few years ago, and everyone who commutes to work into London took the tube, the underground, and there was a strike. And because they use this thing called the Oyster Card, you can track the movements of all these people. And they had to find new ways to get to work.

And when the tube strike was over, about 87% went back to the way they did it before, but about 13% didn't. They'd found by trying something new, they'd found a route that they preferred. Maybe it involved taking the bus or the water taxi or walking or cycling. But they found a different and presumably better because they stuck to it. So when you try new things you occasionally you'll find so hey this is it this is better and it's only by trying them that you find that but also if you meet more people if you you have a more interesting life you get more input you get more diverse you

meet the same people every day talk about the same things you're not learning you're not growing and and creativity is all about new stimuli. It's about putting familiar things together in different ways. And you do that by mixing with different groups, by going to countries you've never in my life, but I don't know how I did it. And it seems like when you try, it's harder than when you just let it happen. Like if something just hits you, but it all seems so magical and mystical and happenstance. And, and, and, but it's like every time you sit down to try to come up with an idea, that's like the worst way to do it. Well, there are people who sit down and come up with ideas. You know, there's one of my favorite books on creativity is called by Jack Foster. It's called How to Get Ideas. And he worked in an advertising agency for most of his career. And sometimes they just sit down in the morning and they'd come up with ideas.

And they said, we're not going to lunch until we've come up with another five great ideas. Because there was a big incentive to go to lunch, they'd come up with those ideas. So it can be done. And I run a lot of brainstorm sessions for people where we start off and I say, we're looking to generate over a hundred ideas.

A hundred ideas, that's a lot, but we generate well over a hundred ideas and then you sift them down. And many of those ideas are terrible. They're stupid. They're silly. But silly ideas prompt fresh ideas, and that's how you get there. It's by going outside the bounds of the conventional that you stimulate the imagination to come up with something creative,

and occasionally that's workable and practical and brilliant. Well, because I love the stories, tell me one more really good lateral thinking success story. There's one famous story about a company that packed crockery and glassware and sent it all over the USA. And what they used to do was they would wrap the crockery in newspapers, old newspaper, wrap it around the glassware, put it in the box and then send it off. And what they found was that people kept stopping to read the newspapers.

I don't know if you ever looked through old newspapers, there was always something fascinating in an old newspaper. And the productivity was low because of this. They had a brainstorm about how to solve this problem, and they discussed various ways. And the chief sales officer, who was a bit of a tiger, he said, well, why don't we poke people's eyes out? And that way they couldn't read the newspapers,

and they just pulled things up. And that's an outrageous idea, poke people's eyes out. And somebody else said, why don't we employ blind people? And they went to the local blind school, they said, have you got people who'd be happy to do wrapping up packaging all day? And they said, yeah, we've got lots of people. And they did that.

And that's where the crazy idea, the outlandish idea, the idea which nobody in a normal meeting would utter, poke people's eyes out, generated and led to a very good workable idea. Well, I always think it's fun to look at how people come up with ideas. And this idea of lateral thinking really gets you thinking. I mean, it's fun to play with it.

And who knows what you'll come up with? I've been talking with Paul Sloan. He is a recognized authority on innovation and creativity. And his latest book is called Lateral Thinking for Every Day, Extraordinary Solutions to Ordinary Problems. And there's a link to that book at Amazon in the show notes. Thank you for coming on and talking about this, Paul. I appreciate it. Really enjoyed it, Paul. I appreciate it. Really enjoyed it, Mike. This winter, take a trip to Tampa on Porter Airlines. Enjoy the warm Tampa Bay temperatures and warm Porter hospitality on your way there.

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Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes. Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back,

and in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed critical thinker. Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. We all find ourselves in conversations from time to time that are, shall we say, tricky, challenging, sensitive. Conversations today can seem more difficult.

People are easily offended. Maybe you have people in your life that you avoid having conversations with, but you'd really like to talk to them. It's just too risky. And then there are those conversations where it's not the person that's the problem, it's the topic. Maybe there's a lot at stake, or it's a topic that's hard to bring up, or you just want to make a really good impression? Well, here to help with all of this is Sam Horn. She is founder of TongueFu, a training institute that promotes communication in corporations, schools, government agencies, and nonprofits. She's the author of a book called Talking on Eggshells, Soft Skills for Hard Conversations. Hey, Sam, so explain what you mean talking on eggshells.

What's the problem you're addressing here? Well, you know, McKinsey just came out with a report that said that rudeness is getting worse and incivility is on the rise. And I bet we all have someone in our life and we tiptoe around this person. We feel like we can't say anything right. We're constantly worried about saying something wrong. And that is what it means to talk on eggshells. And so this is what to say when you don't know what to say in character building situations we face every day. When we're with those people that we're very cautious about talking to and what we say, what's going

on there? What's the dynamic? What's the unspoken truth that's happening that causes that feeling? I'm so glad you asked that because the anxiety can be defined in two words, not knowing. And part of our anxiety around these kind of people is we don't know when they're going to blow up. We don't know when they're going to take their frustration out on us. We don't know if we're going to jeopardize a job. We don't know if we're going to lose a customer or ruin a relationship. And that anxiety actually makes things worse because it makes us hesitant and tentative. So one of the whole goals of talking on eggshells is to know what to say in those sensitive situations so we can think on our feet and respond in a way that helps

instead of hurts. And so what's the general mindset here? What's the best way to approach these situations given that, you know, people are different and all, but how do you get your head in the right place? You know, I love stories and examples because I think they actually show how this shows up in the real world. So a quick example that answers your question, and if we keep this in mind, it really can help us be mindful so we respond and react. So here's a 60-second story. I was visiting my son in New York a while back, and his one-year-old son, Hero, was crawling across the floor, and he climbed up this guitar stand, and he started banging on the strings. Now, see, in that moment, Andrew could have yanked the guitar away. He

could have said, no. He could have said, leave the guitar alone. All of that would have made it worse because it would have reinforced the dreaded behavior and it would have made Hero feel bad or guilty or wrong. Instead, Andrew said one word. You know what it was? Gentle. And I saw Hero's face transform. And he reached back to the guitar, strum, strum, strum. And he reached up to some bells that were on the window, ring, ring, ring. And at that moment, Hero made music because Andrew used a word that shaped his behavior instead of shamed it. And that's one of the goals of talking on eggshells. Yeah, because when you talk to somebody who you have that anxiety about, sometimes you say, because of that anxiety, you say everything wrong, that you're tripping over your own tongue trying to get it right.

And in the process, it seems like it never goes right. You are right. In fact, unless people are driving, I hope they get out paper and they put a vertical line down the center. Because the way that this is easy to remember and apply is over on the left are words to lose, over on the right are words to use. So over on the left, put the words stop and don't. Because you're so right, in the moment, we often say, you know, stop yelling at me or don't interrupt me or, you know, leave the guitar alone. We actually, once again, use words that reinforce the dreaded behavior. Over on the right, put start and do. Now, what do we want them to do? How do we want them to treat us? It's please speak to me with respect, or please let me finish, or please be

on time early tomorrow. Because now what we're doing is we're directing the attention to desired behavior instead of dreaded. And that way we really do shape what happens instead of shame it. So let's talk about some of those people who, or at least the situations where people are acting in a way and how you suggest we respond. For example, if people are just being argumentative and just disruptive? And how do you deal with that person? We do a pattern interrupt. If people are arguing or are blaming or shaming or something like that, often over on the left is that we try and talk over them, which actually makes them talk louder. And our voice of reason gets drowned out in the commotion. So over on the left is fine fault. It's like, hey, you were the one who dropped the ball on this.

Hey, don't blame me. It's not my fault. All of those defensive things or accusations do make it worse. So over on the right, what do we do? The pattern interrupt is a physical sign. Like if you played sports, you know the T. We say, hey, time out. Or we hold our hand up like a policeman would and say, wait a minute or stop. And then we say these words, let's not do this. Or we say, this won't help. We could argue for the rest of the afternoon about who dropped the ball on this, and it won't get this client back. Then we use the words instead. So let's not do this. This won't help. Then instead, bridges, let's focus on finding solutions rather than fault. Instead,

let's talk about how we can keep this from happening again. Instead, let's talk about how we can work together to make this more efficient in the future. And by doing that, we have a pattern interrupt and we shift people to finding solutions rather than fault. Let's talk about complainers, because I think we all come up against those people all the time who always find something to complain about and it's always in the way of whatever it is you're trying to do and it gets tiring it's wearisome and they're difficult to deal with so what do you what do you recommend when people complain don't explain because we think if something goes wrong and we explain to the person why we didn't return their call or why they didn't get their package or why their table isn't ready

yet, people will forgive us. Actually, they get angrier because excuses are explanations. People feel we're not being accountable. Over on the right, put the A train. A, A, A. A for agree. Two of the most powerful words in any disagreement are you're right. You're right. Your table was supposed to be ready at seven o'clock. You're right. I was supposed to call you yesterday. You're right. Your package was supposed to arrive today. Then take the second A, A for apologize. And I'm sorry your table isn't ready yet. And I'm sorry that your package didn't arrive. Now the third A, A is for act. And I see that this table, they're paying their bill.

Let's get it cleaned up so it's ready for you in the next five minutes. Thank you for your patience. And let me check the tracking on that package, see what is going to arrive. Do you see how when people complain, don't explain, take the A train, and we actually advance the complaint into a solution instead of anchoring it in that argument? One type of person I find difficult to deal with is when people are sad or depressed and that kind of clouds the whole conversation, it's hard to get past that. How do you get past that? Once again, you're bringing up situations that all of us face almost on a daily basis. Someone is angry. Someone is accusing us of something that's not our fault. Someone is unhappy. Someone's taking our frustration out on us. So this is the situation where someone is

sad or unhappy. And guess what we do? Over on the left, we try and comfort and console them. Well, you know, we've all had this happen to us. Oh, things will be better tomorrow. Well, you've got to look on the bright side. Oh, that happened to me. And we're trying to make them feel better. And we actually make them feel worse when we try and comfort and console them. A quick example, and then we'll talk about what to put on the right, is why? He said, my brother and his wife have a new baby and the baby never sleeps. The baby like wakes up every hour on the hour, they're exhausted. And he called me last night and he was talking about it. Guess what I said? Welcome to the next 18 years. You know, my brother hung up on me. And in the moment, I thought, you know, it might help him feel like, well, he's not alone. This happens, etc. No, I made him feel worse. He resented me. So what do we do over on the right? We paraphrase what it is they're saying with the question.

So your daughter, you know, never sleeps for more than an hour at a time yeah so you and your wife are exhausted yeah now you may feel but Sam that doesn't help yes it does because when people are sad and unhappy they don't want advice they want our ears they want to get it off their chest. And this magical thing happens when we paraphrase back what someone says, they say, yeah, you know, so it's like really, you know, this isn't the golden time you thought it would be. Yeah. You know, so you and your wife are one. Yeah. And you know what that means? That means they feel heard. We didn't give them advice. We didn't try and make them feel better. All we did was feedback what they said in a way that they knew someone cared enough to listen without giving them advice.

Do you have some advice for, it's not the type of person or what they say that's so much trouble. It's the situation. And what I mean by that is if it's a really important conversation, sometimes people in their own head get anxious or, you know, because there's so much riding on it and they get tongue-tied and they act very sheepish. And is there some sort of framework you can put around that that will help you not fall into that sheepish, anxiety-ridden response? When it's a high-stakes conversation, when there's a lot on the line, we often turn to doubts. We turn to worries. Oh, what if my mind goes blank? What if I blow it? What if people, what if I don't get a yes to this, et cetera. And those doubts and fears become self-perpetuating and they feed our anxiety.

And we're not going to get a yes or people will not believe what we're saying because of that unsureness. So let me give you a quick example. And then once again, we'll talk about what to do about it. Candy Leitner, you may know, who is the founder of Mothers Against Drunk Driving. And her daughter was killed by a drunk driver on the way to prom. And she spiraled into anxiety and depression. And after several months,

she realized this would not bring her daughter back. And she founded MADD. At her very first speaking event, there were a thousand people in the room. She is standing in the wings, and her knees are shaking, you know, her palms are sweating, and her friend is with her. And she says to her friend, I didn't sign up for this. She said, I don't think I can do this. And her friend went over to her purse and got out some keys and came back and handed the keys to Candy Leitner and said, Candy, if as a result with people, on this opportunity

to share a message she believes strongly in, on this opportunity to actually plant a seed of action that people can take in order to be a better parent or a better partner or a better citizen, etc. So the next high stakes situation that we're in, if our mind is racing with all those doubts, et cetera, do what Beyonce said. She said, I get nervous if I don't get nervous. She said, I just channel that nervousness into the show and focus on what an opportunity it is to let this person know how we really feel, channel this into how grateful we are for this opportunity to interview for this job. And if we focus on what a gift and an

opportunity is to connect with someone who is in a position to take a desirable action, that centers us in our human urge to connect instead of whether or not we get it perfect. What is the thing people, the situation or the type of person or whatever that people seem to have the most trouble with or ask you about the most or struggle with the most if we haven't talked about it already? It's when people make accusations. It's like, you don't care about your customers. You women are so emotional. And what we often do is we take offense and we go on the defensive and we deny it.

And when we deny negative accusations, we actually end up reinforcing them. So once again, an example, and then what to do instead. I was speaking at a women's leadership conference. And in the Q&A afterwards, a woman put her hand up. And she said, Sam, why are women so catty to each other? Now, I'd heard that question many times before, and I thought it was time to reframe it. So I did what I call a Don Draper because Don Draper in the TV show Mad Men said, if you don't like what's being said, change the conversation. So I said, ladies, let's agree to

never ask or answer that question again, because every time we do, we reinforce that negative stereotype. So from now on, if that comes up, change the conversation and go on record with what you do believe instead of what you don't. So say, you know what I found? Women are real champions of each other. In fact, I wouldn't have this speaking engagement if Joyce hadn't stepped up for me. So if someone says, you don't care about your customers and you say, we do too care about our customers. Now we're arguing with our customers about whether we care about our customers. Instead, over on the right, write down these four words. What do you mean?

Or what makes you think that? Because if instead of reacting and denying, we do too care about our customers, instead say, well, what do you mean? Well, I've called three times and no one's returned my messages. Or, you know, as I've been waiting now for 20 minutes and no one's even looked up from the, ah, the real issue. Now we can address the real issue instead of reacting to their attack. So next time you don't know what to say, next time someone accuses you of something that's not true, now

don't get mad. I am not mad. Say what makes you think that and it puts the ball back in their courts and then you can move the conversation once again to what you want to have happen instead of denying and defending something that isn't true, fair, or kind. In any conversation, it always seems to me anyway, that the first few seconds of that conversation sets the tone. You identify who you are and what you're willing to, you know, where your boundaries are. There's something about those first few seconds that really matter as the conversation moves forward. And how do you, how do you recommend people start that conversation or assert themselves in a way that says, this is who I am and, you know, this, this is what I'll tolerate and let's move forward in a great way.

So I love this question about what we can say right out of the gate that puts us on the same side instead of side against side, because that's one of the goals of Talking on Eggshells. In fact, John Mackey, who's the founder of Whole Food, said that this is the course correct for today's cancel culture. So first, I'm going to say what not to say, then once again what to say that makes us more cooperative instead of conflict is that in almost every disagreement, both people are using this little three-letter word but. Over on the left put but. Well, I hear what you're saying but. Well, I'm sorry that happened but. Well, you did a good job on that but. Well, I'm sorry that happened but well you did a good job on that but well I realize it's important to you but and if we are using that word

But what we are letting that person know is that we are making them wrong that what they said is not true that What they say isn't important that we don't care that word But creates more conflicts in any other word in the English language over on the right, substitute it with and. I hear what you're saying, and let's talk about how we can handle that more effectively in the future. It's like, I'm sorry that happened, and thank you for bringing it to my attention. You did a good job on that, and could you please add a paragraph? Do you see how the word and does not have to agree with what they said? It just doesn't argue with it or cancel it out. So instead, use the word and,

and what you're doing is you're letting that person know that you're hearing what they're saying instead of canceling it out, and you're moving forward to what can be done about it instead of right out of the bat making them wrong. So much of your advice, what you're saying is really counterintuitive until you stop and think about it. And then you go, yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. I appreciate you sharing that advice. Sam Horn has been my guest. The name of her book is Talking on Eggshells, Soft Skills for Hard Conversations. And there's a link to that book at Amazon in the show notes. It's been fun, Sam. Thanks for coming on.

Is there a best time to fill up your gas tank? Eh, not really. There's this theory going around that filling up in the morning is best based on the notion that a liquid, a fluid, is denser when it's cold. So you would get more gas for your money in the cool of morning. The problem with that theory is, and it's been tested, that gas is stored in underground tanks and the temperature in those tanks doesn't vary very much at all, all day long.

Certainly not enough to make a difference in the price. The day of the week you fill up might matter. According to a petroleum analyst, Monday and Tuesday is when gas prices are typically cheapest. Then as the week goes on, prices steadily tend to rise, culminating in the highest price on the weekend. But that's according to the highest price on the weekend. But that's according to the national average price of gas. Monday and Tuesday may be the cheapest nationally, but you should check your local gas station to see if other days are, in fact, cheaper.

And that is something you should know. The very best way to support this podcast is, well, a couple of ways, actually, to support our advertisers and also spread the word about the podcast. Let other people know about it. Ask them to listen and help us grow our audience. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Hey, hey, are you ready for some real talk and some fantastic laughs? Join me, Megan Rinks.

And me, Melissa Demontss for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? We're serving up for hilarious shows every week designed to entertain and engage and, you know, possibly enrage you. In Don't Blame Me, we dive deep into listeners' questions, offering advice that's funny, relatable, and real. Whether you're dealing with relationship drama or you just need a friend's perspective, we've got you. Then switch gears with But Am I Wrong, which is for listeners who didn't take our advice and want to know if they are the villains in the situation. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events and present situations that we might even be wrong in our lives. Spoiler alert, we are actually quite literally never wrong. But wait, there's more. Check out See you next tuesday where we reveal the juicy results

from our listener polls from but am i wrong and don't miss fisting friday where we catch up chat about pop culture tv and movies it's the perfect way to kick off your weekend so if you're looking for a podcast that feels like a chat with your besties listen to don't blame me but am i wrong on apple podcast spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. Hi, this is Rob Benedict. And I am Richard Spate. We were both on a little show you might know called Supernatural. It had a pretty good run, 15 seasons, 327 episodes.

And though we have seen, of course, every episode many times, we figured, hey, now that we're wrapped, let's watch it all again. And we we have seen, of course, every episode many times, we figured, hey, now that we're wrapped, let's watch it all again. And we can't do that alone. So we're inviting the cast and crew that made the show along for the ride. We've got writers, producers, composers, directors, and we'll, of course, have some actors on as well, including some certain guys that played some certain pretty iconic brothers. It was kind of a little bit of a left field choice in the best way possible. The note from Kripke was, he's great, we love him, but we're looking for like a really intelligent Duchovny type. With 15 seasons to explore, it's going to be the road trip of several lifetimes.

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