Something You Should Know - Body Language Secrets the FBI Uses & The Lost Art of Corporate Slogans and Why They Matter

Episode Date: October 22, 2018

If you don’t play a musical instrument – maybe you should. This is especially true if you are outgoing and an extrovert. It seems that your personality can predict with great accuracy, how much musical skill and talent you have. We begin this episode by exploring that. http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-10/uoc-hyg101315.php While you are probably aware of how some body language clues work, you are about to get a much better and deeper understanding of it and how you can use it to improve your communication skills. Joe Navarro was a special agent for the FBI for 25 years and he is author of the book What Every Body is Saying https://amzn.to/2CWKSiR Listen and be amazed at how nonverbal communication really works. There was a golden age of corporate slogans. It was the 60s and 70s. That’s when you flew “the friendly skies” of United or “you deserved a break today” at McDonalds or when you used Fed Ex because it “absolutely, positively had to be there overnight.” Those and many other corporate taglines were an important part of their brand. Now do you know the United Airlines, McDonalds or FedEx taglines are today? Marketing executive Steve Cone joins me to make the case that taglines – or slogans – are important and he explains why. Steve is author of the book Powerlines: Words that Sell Brands, Grip Fans and Sometimes Change History https://amzn.to/2Cs38zJ Next time you are in your kitchen, stand there are look around to see just how much food you see. Is it in the fridge and cabinets or is there a lot of food out on the counter? I’m going to explain why it matters especially if you are concerned about your body weight. http://foodpsychology.cornell.edu/OP/Kitchen_Counters This Week’s Sponsors Robinhood. Go to something.robinhood.com to get your free account and receive a share of stock! Home Chef. Go to www.HomeChef.com/something to get $30 off your first order.  Madison Reed. For 10% off plus free shipping on your first order go to www.Madison-Reed.com/something Hotel Tonight. Download the app Hotel Tonight to your phone and get $25 off your first eligible booking. The Lodge at Woodloch. $50 resort credit off any 2-night stay at The Lodge at Woodloch when mentioning promo code SOMETHING by calling 800-966-3562, Option 2, then Option 1 for reservations. Jet.com. For a great online shopping experience go to www.Jet.com  Stroke of Genius podcast. Listen at Apple podcast or at IPOEF.ORG Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today on Something You Should Know, your personality can actually predict how much musical ability you have. Then, a former FBI agent explains the real science of body language, and you will be surprised. The feet are actually the most accurate. The face is the least accurate. For instance, young children, when they're asked to kiss a relative and they don't like that relative, their feet won't go anywhere near that relative. They'll bend at the waist to initiate the kiss. Also, the fascinating connection between how much food you see in your kitchen and how much you weigh, plus the lost art of creating great corporate taglines and why they're so important.

A Diamond is Forever was written by a 28-year-old female copywriter in 1948. That line will never change. BMW latched upon the ultimate driving machine. And guess what? It's the only tagline in the automotive world that anyone recalls today. All this today on Something You Should Know. As a listener to Something You Should Know, I can only assume that you are someone who likes to learn about new and interesting things and bring more knowledge to work for you in your everyday life. I mean, that's kind of what Something You Should Know is all about. And so I want to invite you to listen to another podcast called TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on

Something You Should Know have done Ted Talks. Well, you see, Ted Talks Daily is a podcast that brings you a new Ted Talk every weekday in less than 15 minutes. Join host Elise Hu. She goes beyond the headlines so you can hear about the big ideas shaping our future. Learn about things like sustainable fashion, embracing your entrepreneurial spirit, the future of robotics, and so much more. Like I said, if you like this podcast, Something You Should Know, I'm pretty sure you're going to like TED Talks Daily. And you get TED Talks daily wherever you get your podcasts. Something you should know.

Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome. Do you play a musical instrument? There has been research that shows that people who play a musical instrument have better brain function than people who don't. But what determines how good you get at that musical instrument?

A lot of people say practice, practice, practice is what determines it. But there may be more to it than that. Your personality has a lot to do with your ability to play music. Psychologists at the University of Cambridge tested people's musical ability and then linked their scores to their personality traits. And they discovered that aside from musical experience, the trait of openness was the next best predictor of musical skill. Openness is defined as being willing to try new experiences and new ways of thinking.

Extroversion was also linked to musical ability. So, a person who is more open and outgoing will typically have more musical ability than people who are closed and introverted. Interestingly, they found that the links between personality and performance on musical tasks were present even in people who did not play a musical instrument. This means there are individuals who have a potential for great musical talent, but are entirely unaware of it. And that is something you should know. You are constantly giving off signals and communicating without saying a word.

And what's interesting is you're constantly reading other people's physical cues and signals without them saying a word. For example, you can sense it when you're talking with someone, whether they want you to keep talking to them or leave you alone, even though they don't say anything about it. You just sense it because you're reading those nonverbal signals. And what's even more fascinating is when you study this a little deeper, you can get really good at reading those signals.

And here to teach you how is Joe Navarro. Joe is very experienced in this. He was a special agent for the FBI for 25 years, and he is author of the book, What Every Body Is Saying. Hi, Joe. Welcome. So start with a brief explanation of what you did at the FBI all those years. I specialized in counterintelligence work, and I also was part of the Bureau's Behavioral Analysis Program, which looked at human behavior. And about three or four years before I retired, I started publishing articles for the FBI

on the subject of nonverbal communications and human behavior. And so how accurate is this reading of nonverbal communication? Because one of the criticisms I've heard from people who know about this is that you can't tell much from a single clue that just because somebody crosses their arms doesn't mean they're being defensive. It could just mean they're cold, or it could just mean that's their natural posture for them, that you can't read too much into any of this. Well, nothing in human behavior is 100%, but there are some things which are extremely

accurate. You know, our bodies reflect what we think, what we feel, and what we intend. And so oftentimes, for instance, you'll see someone, two people are talking, and then suddenly one of their feet will rotate in the direction they want to go. And it's an intention cue, and it's extremely accurate that says, hey, I got to go. So when you're trying to read someone's nonverbal clues, but they're also talking, does the talking help?

Or does the talking make the nonverbal more fuzzy, especially if what they're saying doesn't match the nonverbal? I mean, does talking help or does it hinder? Well, I think for most people, we look for the nonverbals to add to the verbal communications, because nonverbals is the primary way we communicate. We have done that for millions of years. So when somebody greets us and says, hey, how are you? We want to see the smile. We want to see the arching of the eyebrows as they say those words. That adds true sentiment to it. Because you see, when it's absent, when, for instance, these body exclamations are missing, that's when we begin to sense, oh, this person really doesn't like me.

But oftentimes people will, for example, put on a happy face, even though they don't feel particularly happy. They're trying to send out physical signals that they're happy when they're not. That's right. And that's why we have both a true smile and a false smile. A true smile pulls up towards the eyes. It's very difficult to fake. A fake smile is the one that we often use socially, pulls towards the ears, and that one's fairly easy to identify. Or it's not full, only half of the face smiles. And that's why it's hard to smile at somebody when you're angry. How effective do you think it is if somebody studies body language and says, okay, well, I know if I do this, it will mean that, and then try to fake it? How effective is that?

Well, you know, some people do try to fake the body language. For instance, politicians will often give you what's called the politician's handshake, where they give you the hand and then they cover your hand with the other hand. That's to demonstrate a closeness that probably doesn't belong there. It's artificial. And so we can use nonverbals. For instance, patting somebody on the back over and over when we don't know them that well. We are, in essence, creating something that isn't true, and so it doesn't make us feel right. It does seem somewhat that the ability to read other people's body language is human nature. I mean, I've never studied it, but if I meet somebody, I shake their hand and I look at their face and they're not smiling, I know something's wrong.

And it's not because I'm an expert in body language, it's just that I have that sense. It seems like it's human nature. Oh, it's absolutely in our nature. For instance, the studies I've seen with babies just three and four days old, they will recognize a smiling face versus a scowling face. They'll smile, they'll mimic that smile. And when you furrow your eyebrows at a baby, you can make them cry. They absolutely read your body language. In fact, their pupils will dilate when their mother comes into the room and will orient towards the voice of their mother. What about some of the more common ones? I had mentioned earlier, you know, about people who cross their arms,

and that's often been said to mean that the person is closed off or they're being defensive. Those kinds of stereotypical body language things, is there truth to them? It depends. You know, look at people when they're around each other in a home, and you'll notice that rarely do they cross their arms in front of each other. Now, do we do that more in public because it's more comfortable or the room's cold or there's a slight amount of insecurity, most likely. When we are upset with someone, most likely we'll cross our arms, but then we will tighten our hands tightly on our arms. We'll grasp ourselves really tight, and that's a pretty good indication that things are bad. In general, do you think body language is more reliable than verbal language in the sense that

if somebody says something, but their body language says something else, are you more likely to believe the body language or what someone says? I would place greater emphasis on the body language because, for instance, our limbic brain, our more primitive brain, doesn't permit certain things to take place, and so it's extremely accurate. you to get near a person when you find them distrustful or suspicious. We turn away from people we dislike. So they may say they like us or we may say we like them, but our bodies will actually rotate away from them. I'll give you an example. People who are breaking up will rarely touch their feet together. So it doesn't matter what they say.

The fact that they won't let their feet near each other is a good indicator that the relationship is over. From your experience, are there any behaviors, any signals that people give out that are slam dunk, oh, he's lying, or oh, she doesn't like me, or do you always have to put it in context? or do you always have to put it in context? Well, you always have to put it in context. For instance, at the airport, you expect to see a lot of stress behavior,

and it's because, you know, flights are canceled and people are just stressed. But I'll give you an example of a fairly accurate one. Watch people when they purse their lips. You know, the lips look like they're kissing somebody, they're pursing them. It usually means they're in disagreement or they don't like what they heard or what they're talking about. It's extremely accurate because it mimics that same behavior that we see in children when they tell their parents that they don't like something, the food they're about to eat, and so forth.

I'm speaking with Joe Navarro. He was a special agent for the FBI for 25 years, and he is author of the book, What Everybody is Saying. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet.

Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson, discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared

wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network called The Search for the Silver Lining, a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. Look for The Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. So Joe, are there any clues that people give off that are hard to fake? And there must be, because that's why, you know, poker players are all covered up with sunglasses and hats because they give off those tells. But are there things in regular conversation that you know you just can't fake it? You're going to do that.

There's one that I started writing about in the literature, and that is women, when they are insecure or struggling with something or they feel threatened, they'll touch their neck dimple. That's that little area right below the Adam's apple. It's also called the suprasternal notch. And they do it in real time. So they could be on the phone talking about the creep they just saw, and they'll put their hand over this area. Or as they walk into a room full of men and they feel insecure, they'll cover this area up. Or as I saw in a meeting in Lisbon, a woman was on the phone and she immediately covered this area up as her husband was telling her he had just been in an accident.

It's extremely accurate and very few people know what it means and yet we see it all the time. Is body language pretty universal? I mean, could you go to China or Saudi Arabia and read people as accurately as you do here or is it pretty much culturally exclusive? There are cultural differences, but most behaviors that I concentrate on are universal, and those are the ones that deal with emotion. Smile is a smile around the world.

A frown is a frown around the world. A surprise is a surprise around the world. And so these are accurate and they're universal. Can we fake things? Like, you know, when you go into a room and you don't feel very confident because you don't know anybody, can you fake confidence and will people buy it? Can you fake being happy to some extent and people will buy it? Sure, but they're extremely draining on us.

They will drain the person that's having to fake it. How many of us have been told by a spouse or a parent, put on a party smile, don't look that way, change your face, don't make faces, and so forth. So for a while we can fake it, but like I said, it's extremely draining on us. Are there some general rules about body language that are worth knowing, or really everything is in context and individual in the situation and the person? Well, again, everything in context, but there are some general rules. For instance, we can divide a lot of body languages up into things that make us comfortable, and we demonstrate comfort, and things that make us uncomfortable. So some comfort displays would be, for instance, a smile, a head tilt,

exposing more of the front of the body instead of turning away. Discomfort displays would be tightening of the facial muscles, less smiling, a stiff neck, what I call ventral denial, where we start to turn away from the person or we put things in between us so we have less exposure. Those are pretty easy rules, and we demonstrate those day in, day out, in real time. What do you mean in real time? Non-verbals don't wait.

It's not like a conversation. I'll give you an example. I was at a store today, and the attendant was taking too long. And immediately, right at that moment, the muscles in my face started to tighten as I was thinking, why is this person taking so long? They're in real time. And that's the beauty of nonverbals. When we're talking about how we feel about something, it's demonstrated in real time.

Right, right. And when you finally get up to the clerk, those things start to go away in real time. But it's an indication. And as she looked at me, she could tell that I was irked by how slow she was doing her job. And we've done this for millions of years. We've communicated to each other precisely how we feel. You know, after all, when a baby is born it doesn't speak.

The mother learns to read it. And what does the baby say? I'm either comfortable and happy or uncomfortable and irritable. You say that the face is the least likely place to gauge a person's feelings and yet you would think that if you could read somebody's face that you could get a glimpse into what's really going on in their head. Well, the reason it's so inaccurate is that because we master how to fake how we really feel. From a very young age, we're constantly being told not to make that face, not to offend people facially. And we're told, don't roll your eyes, don't do this, don't do that.

And yet other parts of our body, for instance, young children, when they're asked to kiss a relative and they don't like that relative, they may put on a smile, but their feet won't go anywhere near that relative. They'll bend at the waist to initiate the kiss. And the feet are actually the most accurate. The face is the least accurate. Really? The feet are the most accurate? Absolutely. They're responsible for our survival.

So when you're at an ATM machine and somebody gets behind you too close, you may turn around and give like a false smile, but your feet tighten up, the muscles get ready to run, and they will actually maneuver themselves so that they can escape. So far, we've been talking about what to consciously look for in people's body language and their nonverbal communication. But don't we also do this unconsciously? Don't humans just naturally have some ability to read people?

Well, our species, per se, does assess us for danger first, and then assess us for hierarchy second, and then we look for other things like emotions and so forth. But we do this in real time subconsciously, and that's why sometimes we'll be in a room with someone and they make us really uncomfortable, and it may be because they're a predator, and our brains are detecting the fact that this person may be a threat or may seek to harm us. Well, and I think that happens with everybody. Everybody probably has had that experience of the elevator door opens up and you're about to get in,

but there's somebody in there that kind of gives you the creeps and you wait for the next elevator. Something's telling you that there's a threat there. Oh, no, absolutely. That's it. That's what Gavin DeBecker was talking about in his book, The Gift of Fear, that our limbic brain, this very elegant part of our brain, is designed to preserve us. And it detects danger, and we have to listen to it. And, you know, as I tell my students, you don't have a social obligation to be a victim. If you don't feel comfortable on a date, getting into a car, getting into an elevator, just get out.

Because your brain is actually communicating to you that something's wrong. But what so often happens, in fact, most of the time what happens is that elevator door opens up, that guy in there gives you the creeps, you get in anyway, and nothing happens. That's true. And yet our brain is designed to defend us, and we shouldn't be turning it off. You know, just because we don't have an accident every day doesn't mean we turn off the airbag in our car. Our limbic brain is designed to assess for danger. For instance, predators, social predators stare at us longer than the average person. That we react to that is absolute.

It makes us uncomfortable. We should never turn that off, ever. In terms of lying, in terms of being deceptive, when you're working in law enforcement and you see somebody say something and their body language contradicts what they're saying, what do you do? Do you assume they're lying? Well, I never make the assumption that they're lying. The assumption that I make is that for some reason, they're saying something contrary to what they're really thinking or feeling.

And there must be a reason for it. I mean, when my daughter was young and she would come home and I could tell that she was having a bad day, but she would say, no, everything's all right. There's any number of reasons why she would do that, including the fact that maybe she just doesn't want to talk. You know, that it was a small lie on her part. We tell lies all the time. I mean, you know, you walk past somebody and say, how's your day? And they say, well, everything's fine. And it's not. So it's a matter of, you know, what's the purpose of it? If it's to economize time and conversation, then it has another purpose other than just to deceive. So based on what you're saying, I mean, we really need to pay attention to those feelings we get, those clues that we see that are nonverbal but speak volumes.

For millions of years, our species communicated nonverbally. We continue to communicate nonverbverbally that non-verbals are more accurate. In fact, they're so accurate that, for instance, when we see something we don't like, we tend to cover our eyes or we hear something we don't like. If I said, hey, Mike, help me move this weekend, you might just cover your eyes with your fingers. Now, here's what's interesting. Children who have been born blind, they've never seen, will also cover their eyes when they hear something they don't like. This is ingrained in us. And clearly, when you listen to what all those years of evolution are telling you,

and when you understand what these things mean, that, for example, the feet are more accurate than the face in terms of reading somebody's intentions, I mean, this is really powerful stuff and can improve the way you communicate with other people. Joe Navarro has been my guest. He was a special agent for the FBI for 25 years, and he's author of the book, What Everybody Is Saying. There's a link to his book in the show notes.

Thanks, Joe. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like something you should know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and

radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes. Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back, and in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed critical thinker.

Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. Join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa Demonts, for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? Each week, we deliver four fun-filled shows. In Don't Blame Me, we tackle our listeners' dilemmas with hilariously honest advice. Then we have But Am I Wrong, which is for the listeners

that didn't take our advice. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events. Then tune in to see you next Tuesday for our listener poll results from But Am I Wrong. And finally, wrap up your week with Fisting Friday,

where we catch up and talk all things pop culture. Listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. Over the years, brands have used taglines. Some of them are very memorable, but many of them are not. Depending on how old you are, you might remember the tagline for McDonald's, You deserve a break today.

But do you know what their tagline is today? Coca-Cola has had some great taglines like, It's the real thing, Coke adds life, or a Coke and a smile. But do you know what the Coca-Cola tagline is today? They have one, but nobody really remembers it. Same with FedEx. Remember FedEx when it absolutely, positively has to get there overnight? Well, that got retired a while ago, but you ask anybody today, what's the FedEx tagline,

and nobody knows it. By the way, the FedEx tagline today is the world on time. The Coca-Cola tagline today is taste the feeling. And the McDonald's tagline today is I'm loving it. But creating corporate brand taglines seems to have become a lost art, and one that marketing executive Steve Cohen wrote about in his book, Power Lines, words that sell brands, grip fans, and sometimes change history. Hi Steve, so why the interest in taglines?

I've noticed a complete kind of collapse in marketing over the past decade of attention to creating taglines, slogans, mottos, and jingles that have any relevance to consumers or make any impact. And while there was a tremendous amount of successful campaigns done from the 50s through the 80s and even the early 90s, today very few break through. And it's because lack of attention to the importance of a few words to sell a brand. But don't you think it's also partly because we are exposed to so many more messages, advertising messages today, that it's hard for anything to break through, even the best of taglines struggle?

Simple answer, no. And I can give you a very good example. When a line breaks through the clutter out there, it's because it's a claim or a promise that is distinctive, unique, and gets people to nod in unison going, yeah, that's right. And a couple of quick examples, I mean, the city of Las Vegas, which had no tagline anyone knew. They hired a local writer who came up with a tagline that now every American over the age of 12 knows, which is, well, what people say the line is, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. The actual line is, Las Vegas, what happens here stays here, but your mind actually remembers it in an easier, digestible form.

So I don't buy the argument that it's too much clutter out there for lines to get traction. The fact is that most companies do two things of any size, do two things very poorly today. They change their taglines all the time, maybe partly because they don't mean anything. And they just use generalities, you know, stick a few words together that could describe anything and therefore nothing. Like aim higher or the passion to perform or the word life is very popular. You know, live your life, which is actually a line somebody uses. Oh, yeah, I remember a life one.

What was it? Life takes visa. Yeah, life doesn't take visa. Merchants take visa. I mean, American Express, my life, my Card, Coke, the Coke side of life. But maybe it's just because they're taglines. They're by definition afterthoughts. They're not the name of the company. They're just a tagline. I mean, what do you want them to do? You're asking a lot. They're just a tagline. Well, right. I think people think that, and they don't remember that all the great taglines of yesteryear were both taglines and headlines. They were the line. So maybe the implication of the word itself, tagline, today makes markers think about how, well, maybe that's kind of an

apostrophe I should put at the end, but nothing could be further from the truth. So what are some of these great taglines that you seem to be pining for from yesteryear? What are some of them? Well, some of them are still around. A Diamond is Forever was written by a 28-year-old female copywriter in 1948 for De Beers and their first diamond promotion. And guess what? That line will never change. BMW latched upon the ultimate driving machine, and guess what? It's the only tagline in the automotive world that anyone recalls today. There's a couple other lines that aren't bad that a few people will remember unaided, like Zoom, Zoom, Zoom for Mazda. At least it has

some oomph to it, and like a rock for Chevy trucks. So that's one industry. Coca-Cola had a great line created in 1941. It's the real thing. And they've been fooling around ever since. No one today knows what their line is, which only the four tagline experts on the planet, me and three other people know what the line is. Wait, there's four of you? Yeah. Oh, I'm just guessing. You know, Pepsi had come alive. You're in the Pepsi generation. M&M still uses the line created back in the 50s.

The milk chocolate melts in your mouth, not in your hand. I remember a tagline from a while back that seems to contradict what you're saying, because you're saying that a lot of taglines today don't say anything. They're kind of bland and boring, and they don't really have any meaning. But I remember the American Airlines tagline from years ago, we're American Airlines doing what we do best. It doesn't really say anything. What do you think? I think it was very, very well done. It says that they're focused on providing a good flying experience. And remember United? I mean, what better tagline, fly the friendly skies? I mean, that still sticks in people's

mind, and I don't think they've used that for years. Well, they used it for many years. They put it to music, very methodical. Both those lines were put to music and with a particular sound signature, if you will, which is the easiest. Sound is much more easy to retain in the mind than sight. Hearing something is much more powerful than seeing something. Part of the problem today is people don't speak the lines. They just show them on TV or print and then expect people to remember them.

And if they're not the headlines, they're sure as heck not going to remember them. Of course, you'll recall, where's the beef, right? The insurance companies, believe it or not, a boring industry, but great lines that they've kept for decades. Allstate, you're in good hands with Allstate. State Farm, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Geico uses, if you give us 15 minutes, you could say 15%. Morton Salt since 1911, when it rains, it pours. Hebrew National Hot Dogs, we answer to a higher authority. That's one I particularly like.

I wonder if what's going on in the cases where great taglines get retired is that new people come in and they look at those taglines and they think they're tired. And we're the new marketing people and we've got new fresh ideas. And we need to get rid of these old ideas. So we're going to retire that because it's just tired. Yes, they think that and they're wrong. You know, if you look at all the companies that have great brand success who have stuck with their lines. I mentioned the beers.

I mentioned BMW. You know, there are plenty of others because they understand that these lines are the ultimate brand promise. Those are the lines people remember. People remember for American Express, don't leave home without it. Hasn't been used in decades. They have no clue what American Express stands for today from a tagline standpoint. Not a clue. And they spent millions of dollars. And what people remember is don't leave home without it. So in other words, blinds don't get tired. What gets tired is the advertising itself around the line. But of the taglines that stick around and that people remember, and maybe even

taglines that don't stick around, but people still remember them anyway, like the American Express, Don't Leave Home Without It. Which is the cart and which is the horse? Meaning, do these taglines stick around because they're good, or are they good because they just stuck around so long? I would say most of the reason they've hung around is because you can't describe the product, service, or company any better.

You can try and try all you want, and you just can't describe it any better. Can you predict the success of a tagline in advance? I mean, clearly no one's sitting around trying to come up with lousy taglines. Everybody thinks that this is a pretty good tagline, but there are a few, you know, fly the friendly skies or you deserve a break today that really stick. So is it just chance? Well, it's an art, not a science. If you're looking for some kind of magic formula, I give as much of a formula as I can in terms of, you know, you've got to create something that has an edge to it, that has a personality, that has an attitude.

State your claim in an original way. Your tagline should state your positioning in a way that no one has done before. Wordplay, you know, play on words is very good. Totally avoid platitudes that could appeal to any business or apply to any business and therefore no business. You know, make sure your line can answer the question, what will your product or service specifically do for me? Federal Express, when it absolutely positively has to get there overnight. That's how they started. That's what they've used for the first 15 years. No one, of course, knows what their line is today, but they still remember that. So a great line will remain whether you use it or not. And I see that over and over and over again,

as you can surmise yourself just by thinking about the topic. You know what I wonder is why, if a company has retired a tagline and tried 5, 10, 15 other taglines and none of them stick, why don't they go back? Why doesn't Coke become the real thing again? Why doesn't United fly the friendly skies or American Airlines do what they do best? I mean, why don't they admit defeat and go back to success? They're embarrassed and they don't want to admit that all the marketing and billions of dollars they've spent since that time have gone for naught. But I can give a talk, which I do, for instance, in Atlanta, Georgia, on this topic,

and go, does anyone know what Koch's tagline is today? And it's like, no is the answer. No one has a clue. One of the great, successful, now retired taglines was Verizon's Can You Hear Me Now? And I know in your book that you talk about not having a tagline that focuses on a negative. And clearly that does. That shines a spotlight on the fact that cell phones drop out and you can't hear people. So how do you reconcile the success of that with your theory that negative is not good? I've changed my mind on that one. I will say it's a line that while

is the only one remembered in the mobile phone category, it also has a very high negative rating. But at the end of the day, people remember it. As interesting as this topic is, and as fun as it is to look down memory lane at some of the great taglines, how do you know this really matters? How do you know that a tagline is worth all the effort you're talking about? How do you know that it really contributes to the bottom line? The best you can do is look at companies that have kept their lines for years and look at where they are in their industry. And the vast majority of the time they're on top.

The vast majority of the time they're on top. And I'd say a lot of the time when they've changed the line one or a zillion times, they're struggling with the rest of the folks. Another tagline that seems very successful but defies the rules that you've been pointing out here is Nike's. Just do it. I mean, it doesn't tell you anything about what Nike does. It doesn't differentiate Nike in any way from its competitors. It doesn't really mean anything.

Just do it. Just do what? I mean, and yet everybody knows just do it well if they always have their name of course with the line right and you're right but but they used a lot of advertising and continue to to to the earlier point you can take a so-so line and and make it your signature if you keep at it. And in this case, it works for them, I think,

because they're not hardcore peddling their products, and people appreciate that. They're saying, basically, you can be a better person, a healthier person, a more active person. It's up to you. And, oh, by the way, we have the equipment and the apparel and the ability to provide great product for you to use. You know, the military is pretty interesting when it comes to taglines. I mean, the Marines, the few, the proud, the Marines, that's been around forever and people know that. But the Army, the U.S. Army has

struggled with taglines. The Army had a great slogan, which worked for 20 years, be all you can be. And it was perfect for the post-Vietnam era and for getting people excited again about a military career, men and women and their parents. And then what do they do? They throw that out and they go with Army of One. Huh? What the heck does that mean? Crazy. And then they went from then to then. They decided, well, yeah, you're right.

That is crazy. So now they're using Army Strong, which does nothing to really get the juices flowing. Strong's not a bad word, but it just, what does that mean? So as we wrap things up here, take us on a little stroll down memory lane here, some of the really great, in your view, really great taglines, and why? My former employer, I worked at twice, City Group, they had a line that employees loved that epitomized the heritage of city to a T

that applies to every business under the city umbrella and everywhere in the world was translated easily, which was the city never sleeps. And they got rid of that line back in 1998. And it's one of the best lines actually, in my opinion, ever created, certainly in the financial services space, because it's a genuine representation of the distinctiveness of that brand versus all of its competitors. No one else has the global breadth and on-the-ground presence of Citi. Why would Allstate ever change?

You're in good hands with Allstate. You know, there are a lot of other examples of folks that just stick to their knitting and do a great job. They don't get a lot of recognition. Raid. Kill bugs dead. Roto-Rooter, right? Away goes troubles down the drain.

Roto-Rooter. Sherwin-Williams, cover the earth. An odd phrase, but makes the point that you can paint anything at any time with our paint. Some of the National Service slogans have stayed. You can learn a lot from a dummy, buckle up. You know, obviously for 50 years only you can prevent forest fires. A mine is a terrible thing to waste. It's still used, and they still call themselves the United Negro College Fund. Transportation, you know, there were some great lines in the past.

Fly the friendly skies of United. They really tried to epitomize that. Maybe they decided, maybe in this case they decided they really can't provide friendly service. Greyhound bus lines, leave the driving to us. A clear benefit, easy to remember, used and used and used. Well, there clearly are some great ones, and it does seem that most of them are from that golden age of taglines and slogans. There aren't a lot of new ones that really pop into my head as being really, really memorable. And I suspect that it really has to do with the idea that maybe it just,

people don't think they matter that much anymore. And yet here we are talking about them and pining away for the old ones. So maybe they really do matter. Steve Cohn is my guest and his book is Power Lines, Words That sell brands, grip fans, and sometimes change history. There's a link to his book at Amazon in the show notes. Thanks for being here, Steve. There are a lot of reasons and contributing factors why people are overweight. But one of the simple reasons people are overweight seems to be that when we see food, we eat food. Over 200 American kitchens were photographed to determine if the food sitting out on the counter

was related to the body weight of the woman living in the house. What the researchers at Cornell University discovered was women who had breakfast cereal sitting on their counters weighed 20 pounds more than those who did not. Those who had soft drinks sitting out on their counters weighed 24 to 26 pounds more. Those who only had a fruit bowl on the counter weighed about 13 pounds less. The conclusion is that when food is out and visible, we're more likely to eat it. So the advice is to keep a fruit bowl on the counter and put everything else away where you can't see it.

And that is something you should know. If you enjoy the podcast, I hope you will support it by doing business with our advertisers. They are great companies. I've talked to virtually every single one of them. We'll see you next time. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group.

Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions,

and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook. Starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. Contained herein are the heresies of Rudolf Pantwine, erstwhile monk turned traveling medical investigator.

Join me as I study the secrets of the divine plagues and uncover the blasphemous truth that ours is not a loving God and we are not its favored children. The Heresies of Redolph Buntwine, wherever podcasts are available.