Something You Should Know - How Cars Changed The World & What's Going On In Your Unconscious Mind?

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Starting point is 00:00:27 Download June's Journey now on Android or iOS. Today on Something You Should Know, the problem with slouching and why you need to sit up straight. Plus, how the car changed our world. And the stories of the people who built them, like Henry Ford. Why was he so successful? There was something about the man. He was perfectly placed.

Starting point is 00:00:50 He came from a farming family. He hated horses, which was quite crucial, actually. And he took great pride in ridding the world of the need for horses. Also, before you get a flu shot, there's something you need to do first. And what goes on in your unconscious mind? The good things and the not so good. Another word for the unconscious mind might be the uncontrollable mind. Within every single human being in the world, there are horrible drives and urges within them.

Starting point is 00:01:19 But if we push them away and we don't accept them, paradoxically, that makes us more likely to act on them. All this today on Something You Should Know. For those who embrace the impossible, the Defender 110 is up for the adventure. This iconic, award-winning vehicle has been redefined with a distinctive modern design. A reimagined exterior features compelling proportions and precise detailing. Built with integrity and purpose, the interior boasts robust, durable materials. Whether it's the all-terrain capability, ample cargo capacity, or innovative camera technology, the Defender 110 lets you go further and do more.

Starting point is 00:01:55 And with seating for up to seven, everyone can enjoy the journey. Learn more at LandRover.ca. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts and practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, and here we go with another episode of Something You Should Know. And we start with a quick question. How's your posture right this second? Slouching, bad posture, can affect your flexibility and it can lead to increased strain on your joints.

Starting point is 00:02:33 But bad posture has a lot of other negative side effects you may not know. For example, it can make you look fatter. It can reduce your circulation. It can actually cause more stress in your body and even deepen depression. It can also affect your career. People who slouch at work are often seen in a negative light. So for all those reasons, you really need to sit up and stand up straight. And some common advice to do that is to imagine there is a headlight right in the middle of your chest. And you just want to make sure you keep that headlight shining forward. And that is something you should know. Imagine for a moment what your life would be like if we didn't have cars. I mean, really, the automobile has changed the world in good ways and some not so good ways.

Starting point is 00:03:29 But more than any other technology, it has revolutionized life for pretty much all of us. There are many people who love to drive, me included. And yet the days of getting behind the wheel and hitting the open road, those days may become a thing of the past in the not-too-far-distant future. How the car came to be, how it evolved, and where it's headed is a wonderful story with some interesting characters. And it is one that Brian Appleyard has painstakingly put together for his book, The Car, the rise and fall of the machine that made the modern world. Hi, Brian. Thanks for being here.

Starting point is 00:04:10 Hi, Mike. It's good to talk to you. So, yes, most people would probably agree that the car has transformed the world. But people have said that about other technologies in the past, the light bulb, the computer, they've revolutionized the world. But what roads, it created motels, it created interstates, it created... The physical world has been changed by the car. I don't want to dwell too much in the distant past, but do we have a sense of what the first car was, where it was, and who made it? Well, there's some dispute about this, but an official story has emerged that the first

Starting point is 00:05:09 one was built in 1885 by Carl Benz, who was an engineering genius, but he wasn't a public relations genius. And what made him a public relations genius was his wife, Bertha Ringer, or Bertha Benz. And she borrowed his car and drove 66 miles south in germany with her children which was astonishing no other vehicle had got done more than a mile or two at the time now that made it sort of the official narrative but you could there are lots of close to actual cars at that time. Is the car, in terms of its impact on culture, is it mostly or originally kind of an American thing and then it spread throughout the world?

Starting point is 00:06:01 I mean, Carl Benz obviously wasn't here, but there's something about cars in America that seemed to go together somehow. Absolutely, they do, but not at the beginning they didn't. The car was developed in Germany and France mainly in the late 19th century. It wasn't really American at all. The Americans probably needed it more than anybody because it's a very big country and it had the most appalling roads in the world at the time. There was a lot of talking and praying about

Starting point is 00:06:24 what was the best propulsion method for the car in America. Was it steam, electric? most appalling roads in the world at the time there was a lot of doing and praying about what what was the best propulsion method for the car in america was it steam electric or gas as you call it and um it really took hold um first of all it was the oldsmobile uh which is a nice little car it didn't really take off as well as it should have done but it did catch people's eye it was called the curved dash oldsmobile this is because a dashboard in those days did not mean what we mean now it meant the the wood piece of wood in front of a carriage to stop the muck kicked up by the horses in front hitting the passengers so he made a car with a dashboard that was curved rather than flat that's all so it's its least interesting feature really but it became known as the curved dash old

Starting point is 00:07:10 oldsmobile and so a song with a famous song was written about it my merry oldsmobile but the real change came in 1908 when um henry ford launched his model T. After that point, America took over the world car business. Why is it that the car business is, in America, seemingly, in the beginning anyway, and for many decades, centered in Detroit, Ford, General Motors? Why? Well, it's an interesting question. And it may be just because it had to be somewhere. But what happened was the engineers and people like Ford went to that city. It was a kind of a city ready for industrialization. And the key thing was that Ford started building his Model T in a tiny warehouse in Detroit and then built two huge industrial complexes, the biggest in the world I'd ever seen. And that meant it was going to be Detroit.

Starting point is 00:08:18 And General Motors came out later and so on. And it was all in Detroit. It's just, it's a kind of a crucial place. And so Henry Ford shows up and and changes everything what's so special about him was he a special guy or was he just a guy at the right place at the right time or he just had a brilliant idea or but what what is it that that came together to make henry for icon? He was perfectly placed. He came from a farming family. He hated horses, which was quite crucial, actually.

Starting point is 00:08:52 And he took great pride in ridding the world of the need for horses. He took to engineering on his own, off his own bat. He didn't really have an education in engineering. He just suddenly saw this little machine that was used to drive farming machinery and he became obsessed with it how it worked what it did and he started building it himself and then gradually people he became aware that people are actually making cars out of this machine he did it but then there was something about the man that was unbelievably concentrated.

Starting point is 00:09:27 So, for example, when he actually started work, he built several cars that were quite successful. He became known as a big carmaker. But at some point, he realized that something was missing from the car. What he realized was that the car had to be for everybody. He wanted to make a cheap, reliable, easily serviceable car. And he concentrated all his mind on this. He did it in a special room in Detroit. The most important thing was possibly his use of vanadium steel,

Starting point is 00:09:59 which is a special kind of steel that had been discovered in Britain, I think, first, but then he found it. You can make very light cars out of this stuff and he believed in lightness like some people believe in god you know it's just lightness in an automobile to him was the most important thing and um it cracked it it coped with the bad american roads by making this wonderfully ingenious suspension system that meant you know probably a good a good condition model model t would be better at going over bad roads now than a modern suv it had a special system for holding the engine in place so that it didn't the twisting of the suspension didn't damage the engine it was a beautiful little thing and um he was it started out quite cheap and then it got

Starting point is 00:10:47 cheaper still he kept pushing down the price and amazingly he made ever more money out of it and he is often considered the father of the assembly line is that a fair assessment of him or is that more myth than real yes and no there was it came out of um thought processes from others about how you best made people work more efficiently and quicker and other people had had these ideas but um what he did was simplify the process so that every working every workman on the line would do one job. He'd do that all day. It made it very, very efficient. The problems were later to emerge from this, which is the latest story was that the Japanese

Starting point is 00:11:37 made it better. But nobody had ever seen anything like this. It could produce millions of cars very easily. And they flooded out of the factory. They were such an extraordinary, they changed politics. Both Stalin and Hitler admired Henry Ford for what he did. In other words, both ends of the political spectrum. And they admired him because to them, this seemed like a new world, a new way of organizing humanity. It was a new politics in a way.

Starting point is 00:12:11 As I understand it, Henry Ford, genius though he may be in the car industry, wasn't a particularly bright guy, well-educated, worldly kind of fella. You're right? There was a sort of monstrous simplicity of that the man he was easily influenced towards the end of his life he was thinking of handing over the company not to his son whom he didn't regard as that competent but to somebody called harry bennett who's a who's a low-life thug. He beat up people who protested against working conditions and things. He was a low-life thug. It was only because Clara, his wife,

Starting point is 00:12:50 was so revolted by the idea that it stopped him. So Henry Ford was the man, the character, the myth behind the Ford. I want to ask you about General Motors and who was behind all that. I'm speaking with Brian Appleyard. He is author of the book, The Car, The Rise and Fall of the Machine That Made the Modern World. This is an ad for BetterHelp. Welcome to the world. Please read your personal owner's manual thoroughly. In it, you'll find simple instructions for how to interact with your fellow human beings and how to find happiness and peace of mind. Thank you and have a nice life. Unfortunately, life doesn't come with an

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Starting point is 00:14:02 Look for Melissa and Doug wherever you shop for toys. So, Brian, Henry Ford is Ford. His name is on every car that he makes. Who's behind General Motors? Well, there were two people, both utterly different. The big one, the big name, was Alfred Sloan. And Sloan and Ford were the two opposites in the car business. And Sloan was so boring to meet. I mean, he was catastrophically

Starting point is 00:14:35 boring. I mean, he still is, because if you look at Wikipedia, he's got about third the length of Ford's entry. People can't find anything interesting to say about him. This was because he was concealed himself from the world. He had something to hide i don't know what it was but he certainly wanted to hide himself uh paralyzingly boring when if you can look up youtube videos of him and he talks as if you know like an undertaker on a bad day um but he had perversely his idea he wasn't boring in his idea which was the the way to sell cars was to market them uh ford sort of did market cars but he did it on the assumption that if you told your customer about the model t they would buy it you know if you build it they will come

Starting point is 00:15:19 and he was right for a long time but after 1920 28 then the end of the 20s he stopped producing the model t and never came up with anything to compete with it and as a result general motors became the big competitor for ford and it did so by marketing he got in sloan got in harley earl who built most extravagant cars imaginable um the opposite of ford's puritanical small cars light small everything the opposite he just built massive heavy cars that we all by the time they got into the 50s we all recognized them the great cadillacs and so on absurd cars with gigantic wings at the back, which made no sense sort of in engineering terms. But they would, because people, Ford also introduced planned obsolescence so that, you know, he would build a new car model every year, a model of the same car every year,

Starting point is 00:16:17 which had very little difference. But he would say you had to have the new car and people had, if the people saw their neighbors had the new car, they then went out and bought one themselves. So he created a marketing system, which is kind of like the parallel of Ford's production system, but applied to marketing. And it was just hugely successful. But it didn't produce great cars. Something happened, I believe it was in the 60s, when Japanese cars started showing up in the United States. And at that same time, it was a time when American cars seemed to be suffering from a lack of quality, that they weren't as reliable, they weren't as good as they could be. And Japanese cars showed up to perhaps fill that gap. So what happened there?

Starting point is 00:17:07 There was a brilliant, brilliant Japanese engineer called Taichi Ono. And he was working for Toyota, as it was called now, and later Toyota because Westerners found it easier to pronounce. And he developed a new production system based upon Ford's production system, Ford and General Motors' production systems. But when he looked at the production system, he could see all these flaws. One of the key flaws was that if you have men doing one thing at a time, occasionally they'll do it wrong.

Starting point is 00:17:39 And it would go to the end of the line, and you'd have to take the car and put it all right. So all these ford type production systems had a sort of room beyond the production line where they were putting cars right he saw this as catastrophic and stupid and he he took he designed that out by saying any worker working on the line who saw a mistake or a fault could stop the entire line which sounds like craziness because you'd think that has reduced production but of course it didn't because you had to work out why exactly it had stopped what had gone wrong get it right so it would never go right and wrong again whereas the 14 system

Starting point is 00:18:14 was reproducing the same errors but just fixing them at the end that's a huge change combined with this other chain which was that ford just got his stuff delivered or manufactured it himself at river rouge and just chucked it into the bins where the workers are working but when i said other chain which was that ford just got his stuff delivered or manufactured it himself at riverouge and just chucked it into the bins where the workers are working but oh no said no no that's too we're not paying for all that stock we're just going to make sure that the things arrive just in time so he created the just-in-time production system now it took a while for it to work the problem was that americans were resistant to non-Detroit cars or non-American cars generally. And the only car that was making any inroads was the German Volkswagen Beetle.

Starting point is 00:18:55 And it was being bought by young people who regarded as deviant, eccentric, wicked, you know, because they bought this car. But it was a groovy car. But when it really got going, everybody wanted one. And that was a sign, a warning that Detroit should have noticed car but it was a groovy car by when it really got going everybody wanted one and that was a sign a warning that Detroit should have noticed but it didn't or it decided to ignore it and along came the Japanese first of all they they started to invade the market the 50s and 60s and make serious inroads thereafter and this appealed to young people because they were you know the young people increasingly anti-corporate in those days so they thought we'll stick it to the man in detroit and buy a japanese car and again the the detroit didn't believe it at first they couldn't believe this was happening but these were good cars you know and um they were you know they weren't spectacular cars they

Starting point is 00:19:39 were just good they worked they lasted you know it interesting. Not that long ago, my son and I were at a shopping mall and we were walking through the parking lot and he said, let's count the American cars. And there were hardly any. One out of 10, one out of 15, everything else was Japanese, German, Korean, but there weren't that many Fords and Chevrolets. They made a big mistake, Ford and General Motors. They thought, you see, if you built a big car, you could then persuade the customer to buy it, and then you could put on all these extras, so the car comes out a lot more expensive. Now, when they analyzed a way of doing a small car, they decided it wasn't worth it, because they'd have to make sort of 10 or 20 small cars to make the profit they did on one heavily loaded Chevrolet.

Starting point is 00:20:32 And so they made the mistake of thinking a small car simply wasn't possible for them. But people did want small cars. They're easy to drive around towns. They don't consume as much gas. Increasingly, they showed it by buying them. One of the reasons, in my view anyway, one of the reasons for the success of the car has always been that sense of you get behind the wheel and drive. You go where you want to go. You go as fast or slow as you want to go.

Starting point is 00:21:01 You've got a gas-powered engine. You can rev if you want to rev it. And now things are changing. We're going electric. We're looking at self-driving cars where you don't really drive it anymore. A computer does. And a lot of people don't like that. They find that very disconcerting. To me too. I think that the error of the car as we know it is coming to an end i think this process will accelerate and we won't be seeing uh internal combustion cars i i don't know whether they'll be electric cars replacing the hydrogen but one or the other and we're also seeing increasing computer intervention in the driving conditions.

Starting point is 00:21:46 We already have that. I mean, it's very interesting. If you look at a car, it's becoming more like an iPhone. An iPhone works because it doesn't work unless you're connected to something. And it's becoming like that with cars. I mean, Tesla now doesn't even have to ask you about changing the software. It just drops it in from the cloud. Now, so far, the attempt to make them self-driving is stalled. They're not really getting very far with it at the moment, and it's much more complicated than they realized.

Starting point is 00:22:15 And it's risky because people get killed. But I have no doubt that the kind of money that has been put in this will produce something very different to what we now know and that that will happen quite quickly um if you have if if you look at that and also if you look at the way both apple and google about the same time started work on a self-driving car um now there's a reason for that they're the richest companies in the world so they're all in silicon valley um it's not in detroit it's not in the old world it's in the world. So they're all in Silicon Valley. It's not in Detroit. It's not in the old world. It's in the new world. So basically, these vast tech companies stuffed full of money want to move into this area. And it's not just the cars, they'll change cities.

Starting point is 00:22:58 They'll put in cloud control of cars and cities as a whole. So, yeah, it's changing. And I can see why people would say that's a good thing. And in a sense, I accept all their arguments. Cars have killed a lot of people. They kill about 1.3 million people a year. They do cause problems for the environment and for our health. I understand all that. I accept all that.

Starting point is 00:23:22 But I don't think you should allow those negatives to overrule the great positives that the car brought to people. They brought freedom on a scale unimaginable before. Obviously, there are a lot of interesting players in the history of the car business, but you shine a spotlight on Honda. And well, why is that honda is the name you know on your cars but the man was just extraordinary he was the only uh businessman japanese businessman american businessman thought they could get on with this was because he was a bit of a party animal and um you know he didn't have that reserve that japanese businessman seemed to have about them um he was pretty wild he went he developed motorcycles um brilliant motorcycles moved into cars developed increasingly brilliant cars in he he was i think probably the

Starting point is 00:24:13 greatest of all the mainstream car makers as an engineer he made the most beautiful fast car and uh the honda nsx which everybody i know the experts i know and golden murray is one of the greatest fast car designers in the world this changed his life when he drove this car not because it was faster than anything else because it just handled and murray went on to build the most expensive car in the world uh mclaren and um he owed it all to Honda because he just saw how Honda did it. He was a great engineer. I just was fascinated by it. Well, it's certainly an incredible story. And as you point out, not all of the story is good. The car, the automobile has done great things. It's also done some harmful things, but it has undeniably changed the landscape of the entire world.

Starting point is 00:25:07 So it's interesting to hear about the people behind it. I've been speaking with Brian Appleyard. The name of his book is The Car, The Rise and Fall of the Machine That Made the Modern World. And there's a link to his book in the show notes. Hey, thanks, Brian. This was really interesting. Thanks, Mark. That's been a real pleasure and a great interview.

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Starting point is 00:26:13 You essentially have two minds, your conscious mind and your unconscious mind. And when you think about it, most of the things you do and the choices you make happen unconsciously. Your unconscious mind makes your life easier by just doing things that you have to do so you don't have to stop and think about doing them. But the unconscious mind doesn't always work in your favor. And that's what we're going to talk about with psychiatrist Dr. Daniel Lieberman. He's the author of a book called Spellbound, Modern Science, Ancient Magic, and the Hidden Potential of the Unconscious Mind. Hi Daniel, welcome. Thanks so much for having me back.

Starting point is 00:26:57 Absolutely. So since the first sentence of your book is, there's someone living in your head besides you. I guess we should start there. What do you mean by that? You know, it's something that we don't often like to think about, that we are not alone inside of our heads. But if you think about it, you're really not in all that much control in terms of what goes on inside your mind. You don't get to choose whether you have a good day or a bad day, what your emotions are,

Starting point is 00:27:29 how much psychological energy you have. In fact, you don't even get to choose the things that you want, the things that you use your time and energy to pursue. These are all things that are chosen by the unconscious mind and getting to know that other person, that other inhabitant inside your head can be very valuable. And so when you say we don't, can't choose our emotions, we can't choose the things that you just outlined, why can't we?

Starting point is 00:28:00 Why don't we? I think it's difficult to say why. It's simply the way that evolution has formed our brain. Like all animals, the vast majority of it is unconscious. And another word for the unconscious mind might be the uncontrollable mind. It's only this tiny sliver of consciousness that we have control over, but that's the part of our brain that we identify with. And so as a result, we don't always give the unconscious mind the credit that it deserves.

Starting point is 00:28:33 But so often we hear that we should be in control of our emotions, that we should be in control of all of those things, that that's what a healthy person does and doesn't give in to these impulses and other things. And I think that that is so misguided because in some ways that's saying, well, we should be able to fly. The truth of the matter is that we simply can't. And if we try to deceive ourselves, if we give ourselves more credit than we deserve in terms of what we're able to control, we become delusional about it and that's when we get into trouble. I think that we've all had experiences of being overwhelmed by our emotions and saying things

Starting point is 00:29:17 that we should not have said. We've all seen news stories about highly accomplished people completely destroying their career because they gave into an unimaginably stupid impulse. We've got to stay humble. We've got to realize that there are these forces inside of us and we have to learn how to come to terms with them. Come to terms with them or learn to work with them, control them, adapt to them? What does it mean to live with them? Well, I think that all of those terms are good except control. Because again, we're stepping away from this attitude of humility that I don't completely control everything that goes on inside of me. And so when I say come to terms with it, I think that it's almost as if we were making friends

Starting point is 00:30:09 with this other person inside our mind, or I should say people, because there's all kinds of agents in there, all pursuing their own goals. We come to terms with them, and perhaps we can even tame them the way a rider might tame a horse. If that's true, what are we talking about this for? If the guy who lets an impulse destroy his career because his unconscious mind made him do it, basically, then he's going to do it.

Starting point is 00:30:40 So that's the end of that. Well, I think we can go back to the metaphor of the horse and its trainer. One mistake the trainer could make would be like thinking the horse is like a car and he just presses a button and the horse goes where he wants it to. Obviously, that's not going to happen. The other mistake he could make is saying that he has no influence over the horse at all and that the horse is simply going to go where it wants and he has no say in the matter. And of course, that's not true either. He needs to take a sophisticated, skilled approach to forging this partnership. And the same is true with the unconscious mind. We cannot control it directly, but we can learn strategies to develop a better relationship with it. And let me give you a very simple example. One of the very simple things the unconscious mind does is it controls the physiological balance within our body. For

Starting point is 00:31:37 example, our blood pressure. You can't consciously will your blood pressure to go down. But if you happen to have a pet dog in the house and you consciously will to go over and pet your dog, your unconscious will drop your blood pressure. So there are ways that we can learn how it works and we can use that knowledge to forge a better partnership. There are people, though, who seem to have a pretty good handle on what they do. You know, they don't ruin their careers. They don't get in trouble. They don't get arrested. They don't drink too much. They have a sense of control over their lives, and they don't give in to whatever this unconscious mind is that you're talking about. And I think plenty of those people aren't trying deliberately to grab the reins there. They just don't give in. As a psychiatrist, I do a lot of work with people who engage in self-destructive behaviors.

Starting point is 00:32:40 And their immediate instinct is, well, I just need more willpower. I need to just say no, or as you put, I need to not give in. We find that that generally doesn't work. Willpower is like a muscle in that it fatigues very, very easily. So for example, if you're on a diet and you say no to a chocolate chip cookie, that's going to make it much harder to say no to the angel food cake that you're faced with later. So I would take issue with that, that there are people who just don't give in. And I would say that the people who don't have difficulties with unconscious contents

Starting point is 00:33:21 disrupting their lives probably fall into one of two categories. One is that some people just don't have very strong unconscious drives. Their passions are relatively weak. And as a result, they're very easy to go against them if that's not what they want to do. That's not a great situation to be in because these unconscious drives that can destroy our life are also the things that give us

Starting point is 00:33:53 motivation and energy and the passion that we need to achieve very difficult goals. The other category they may fall into are people who have suffered a great deal, people who have had very, very difficult lives. And one of the sad facts of life, of human nature, is that it does seem to be hardship which moves us down the path of developing this good working relationship with our unconscious mind. So I don't think this is anything that comes easily. I think it's something that has to be earned. And so given that, then what should people be doing to do what you're talking about? How do you actively, proactively, consciously do this or does it just happen? I think that the first step is, you know, if you want to make friends with someone, the first thing you want to do is get to know them better. You ask them,

Starting point is 00:34:52 where are you from? Where did you grow up? What are your hobbies? The first step here is getting to know your unconscious mind better. And you do that by becoming simply a better observer of what's going on in your head. The technical term for it is the observing ego. If you're angry, you don't identify with the anger and say, oh my gosh, I'm so angry. You take a step back and you say, hmm, my brain is generating anger. Let's see what that feels like. Let's think about why that is and see what I can do with it. You just try to notice more. When are you having a good day? When are you full of energy

Starting point is 00:35:33 or when is the opposite occurring? The second thing you do is you do what you can to meet the needs of the unconscious mind. I was just talking to a gentleman who was telling me about this work retreat they had. And originally they planned to rent out some hotel ballroom and simply have it with a bunch of folding chairs, et cetera. But at the last minute, they decided that they were going to spend a little bit more money and they were going to go out to this nature preserve and have it among trees and sky and clouds. And it made a revolutionary difference in the quality of the meeting. And it wasn't because they had any different presenters or because the topics were different.

Starting point is 00:36:16 It was because it was an environment that was conducive to stimulating the best parts of the unconscious mind. So I think that just like a horse trainer is going to exercise his horse and feed his horse, we should pay attention to the needs of our unconscious mind and try to meet them whenever we can. It's interesting to think of your unconscious mind as having its own needs different than the ones you think you have. That it is, as you say, like someone else living in your head. It doesn't feel right. That seems weird to me. It does.

Starting point is 00:36:56 And yet, how often are we tormented by desires that we know are bad for us? Many of us have had the experience of having an incredibly strong attraction to someone that we know would be a terrible partner for us. And we wish we could just put them out of our head, but we absolutely can't. Primitive desires like junk food often torment us. Or even more sophisticated things. For example, we may be very ambitious. We may want to get great prestige. We might want to have a huge bank account. While deep inside knowing that's not going to make us happy and it's going to distract our attention from the things that we find truly fulfilling. My sense is that when people think about those desires,

Starting point is 00:37:47 those desires that they have that could just screw things up or could go nowhere, you're right. They think that it's a matter of willpower, that they shouldn't have those desires, or at least they wonder where do they come from? I mean, why would someone desire something that could do them absolutely no good? It's unfortunately part of the human condition for us to experience this split. We all know the

Starting point is 00:38:19 saying, the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. The human condition is this very strange combination of spirit and matter, of mind and body. The unconscious is much more associated with the body, with the flesh. We tend to associate ourselves with the mind and the spirit. But it's the fundamental reason why it's basically uncomfortable to be a human being. And we often try to flee from this split, this division that's within ourselves. And one of the easiest ways to do it is to try to take out the unconscious mind, at least temporarily. That happens every night when we sink into sleep. Sometimes we get into a hot bath or we watch mindless videos in order to turn off the unconscious mind.

Starting point is 00:39:11 In extreme cases, we shut it down with intoxicating drugs. But it can be exhausting having this split to constantly be at war within ourselves. But unfortunately, that is the human condition. Well, it is good news to hear that, because I think when people have those kinds of desires, those kinds of thoughts, they think there's something wrong with them. But what you're saying is everybody has them. They're just not the same ones all the time, but everybody has these bizarre thoughts that don't, or desires that don't necessarily line up with who you think you are or should be. Yeah, that's a very important thing to keep in mind. Within every single human being in the world, there are horrible drives and urges within them.

Starting point is 00:40:02 And it's not a good idea to deny them. Obviously, we don't want to act on them. But if we deny them, if we push them away and we don't accept them, paradoxically, that makes us more likely to act on them because then they're hidden in the darkness and they can ambush us when we're not prepared and sometimes take over and make us act out these terrible impulses. Well, when people have these impulses, some people do act on them and some people don't. So why do some people act on them and some people don't? I think that there's two reasons for that. One reason is that, as I mentioned, you're more likely to act on them if you try to pretend they're not there. Unconscious drives can express themselves in one of two ways.

Starting point is 00:40:54 One way is through behavior. And that's what animals do. That's instinct. But the other way an unconscious drive can be expressed is simply by experiencing it consciously. So if I feel like I'm so angry with someone, I want to punch them in the face. I might say, oh my gosh, I'm not a violent person at all. Where did that come from? I'm going to forget about that as soon as I can because it's very disturbing to think of myself as violent.

Starting point is 00:41:32 Alternatively, I could allow myself to feel that urge, to feel that violence and say, yeah, this is part of me, but I have a choice. I don't have to act on it. So that's one way that we can avoid acting on these destructive urges. The other way is to build up our ego strength, to build up our willpower. Willpower is not such a great tool, but it's certainly a tool that we have and that we need to use. And there are ways that we can build it up and make it stronger. You know, something I've always found interesting, and I don't know what the explanation is or if there is one, but, you know, when you get one of those uncontrollable urges to say something or do something, particularly if it's based in anger, and you're going to, if you say it, you're going to hurt somebody. Or if you do it, you're going to hurt somebody. And yet, still, it feels so right, and you so want to do it in the moment, and yet so often, you so regret it later. You're so remorseful. You can't take it back. The damage is done.

Starting point is 00:42:35 How one thing that can feel so right in one moment and so wrong later, and we can't see that in the moment, we still want to say it or do it. The only mind that I have access to from the inside is my own. And so I can speak from my own experience. And there are moments where I feel that I don't have that ability to pull back. I know times when I've been in an absolute rage and I hate to admit it, but it's been actually pleasant to say hurtful things to people that I actually care deeply about because I was possessed by this rage.

Starting point is 00:43:21 There are other times though, when I do feel I do have a moment. For example, I want to eat a piece of chocolate and there is a moment when I can say no. But in my mind, what I tend to do is I weigh the pleasure of indulging myself now against the pain of maybe looking at myself on the scale tomorrow morning. And unfortunately, the current pleasure usually wins out. Well, the way we've been talking, it seems like the unconscious mind is nothing but trouble. But it must also be positive.

Starting point is 00:43:58 There must be some good to the unconscious mind. So talk about that. Well, you know, the unconscious mind has about half a million times the processing power of the conscious mind. Just to give you an example of how powerful it is, when you simply walk down the street, your unconscious mind is coordinating literally millions of individual muscle fibers in order to maintain your balance, your tone, and your forward locomotion. It has enormous processing power. There have been a number of famous people in history who have talked about being struck by inspiration. They've been struggling with a difficult problem

Starting point is 00:44:40 that their rational mind was absolutely unable to solve and then all of a sudden boom out of the blue the answer comes ready-made right into their mind and it completely solves the problem that's one of the amazing things the unconscious mind can do and I think we've all had the experience whether we're writing a presentation writing a report, maybe doing something creative, when ideas just pop into our mind that solves problems our conscious mind was not able to figure out. It happened to me many times where I would hit a problem where I just couldn't figure out how to explain something and

Starting point is 00:45:21 then invariably it would happen when I was drifting off to sleep at night, the solution would hit me and it was far better than anything else I could come up with myself. But that seems so uncontrollable. That just happens when it happens and you can't have any influence on that. I think that that is largely true um but i don't think the unconscious mind is ungenerous i think it gives us more than we realize and we need to cultivate the habit of paying attention and so when the dust all settles what's the message here what is it you want people to really get that what's the guts of what you're saying here? What I want them to get is that forging a good relationship with the unconscious mind may be the single most important task in

Starting point is 00:46:14 life. Think about the time when you said to yourself, I've never felt more alive. That's what we live for. We live for those moments when we feel most fully alive. It's not about prestige. It's not about money. It's not about pleasure. It's about the feeling of being full of life. And we often call those moments magic moments. That's what we want. And they seem to come out of the blue by chance. It seems like we have no control over them. But in fact, there are agents underneath there. There are agents creating those magic moments, those feelings of being fully alive. And by recognizing those agents, learning about who they are, and establishing good relationships with them, we can deeply enrich our lives.

Starting point is 00:47:03 Well, it does seem weird, as you say, that there's someone living in your head besides you, and that all these impulses and thoughts and feelings are going on seemingly without you controlling it. But it's good to get an understanding of it, so I appreciate you joining me for that. I've been speaking with Dr. Daniel Lieberman. He is a psychiatrist and author of the book, Spellbound, Modern Science, Ancient Magic, and the Hidden Potential of the Unconscious Mind. There's a link to his book in the show notes. I appreciate you coming back on, Daniel. I enjoy the conversation.

Starting point is 00:47:40 Oh, thank you so much for having me back. It was a pleasure. As we head into winter and flu season, it's probably a good idea for you to make an appointment to get your flu shot. But before you go in to get it, make sure you've gotten plenty of sleep. Researchers at the University of Chicago say that the flu shot can be up to 50% more effective if you're not sleep deprived. Taking a nap before or after your shot won't help much. You really need to be well rested

Starting point is 00:48:13 for several nights prior to getting the vaccination to get the optimal protection. And that is something you should know. And if you enjoyed this episode, the best thing you can do to support this podcast is to share it, tell someone you know about it, and let them give a listen. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group.

Starting point is 00:48:58 Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook. Starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan.

Starting point is 00:49:24 Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Rob Benedict. And I am Richard Spate. We were both on a little show you might know called Supernatural. It had a pretty good run, 15 seasons, 327 episodes. And though we have seen, of course, every episode many times, we figured, hey, now that we're wrapped, let's watch it all again. And we can't

Starting point is 00:49:50 do that alone. So we're inviting the cast and crew that made the show along for the ride. We've got writers, producers, composers, directors, and we'll, of course, have some actors on as well, including some certain guys that played some certain pretty iconic brothers.

Starting point is 00:50:06 It was kind of a little bit of a left field choice in the best way possible. The note from Kripke was, he's great, we love him, but we're looking for like a really intelligent Duchovny type. With 15 seasons to explore, it's going to be the road trip of several lifetimes. So please join us and subscribe to Supernatural

Starting point is 00:50:24 then and now.

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