Something You Should Know - How Having Friends and Being Kind Make You Healthy & The Story of the Hamburger

Episode Date: November 23, 2020

Will you be traveling over the holidays? Obviously, the spike in Covid-19 cases is causing people to reconsider travel and family get-togethers. Listen as this episode begins with the results of a survey about just how many people will or won’t be traveling over Thanksgiving and Christmas. Source: https://bit.ly/32SL0eB When you think about what’s really important to your health, you likely think of medical care, diet and exercise. So what if I told you that friendship and kindness also have a huge impact? They do according to Kelli Harding, MD and author of The Rabbit Effect: Live Longer, Happier, and Healthier with the Groundbreaking Science of Kindness (https://amzn.to/3ptNlXb). Listen as she explains the surprising research that proves being kind and having positive social connections will help you live a long and healthy life.  If you think the hamburger came from Hamburg, Germany, you are only technically correct. What we know as a typical hamburger today is a very American creation according to Sef Gonzales who writes the Burger Beast blog (https://burgerbeast.com/) and is author of All About the Burger (https://amzn.to/3pxLqAJ). Join us as Sef retraces the fascinating history of the all-American hamburger. What makes a happy family? It turns out it doesn’t take much. Listen as I explore a few simple things that will make any family happier. Source: Richard Eyre author of The Happy Family (https://amzn.to/3lCG2dl) PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! https://monday.com One platform, better teamwork - First 2 weeks free! https://bluechew.com First order free! Use promo code; SOMETHING https://www.geico.com Bundle your policies and save! It's Geico easy! https://www.walgreens.com/topic/promotion/mywalgreens.jsp Shop, Save & Stay Well - Join for free at myWalgreens.com https://deals.dell.com/en-us or 1-800-BUY DELL for the best Black Friday savings available now! https://wondery.com/shows/jacked-rise-of-the-new-jack-sound/ Jacked: Rise of the New Jack Sound the new podcast from Wondery. Listen and subscribe today! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As a listener to Something You Should Know, I can only assume that you are someone who likes to learn about new and interesting things and bring more knowledge to work for you in your everyday life. I mean, that's kind of what Something You Should Know is all about. And so I want to invite you to listen to another podcast called TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done TED Talks. Well, you see, TED Talks Daily is a podcast that brings you a new TED Talk every weekday in less than 15 minutes. Join host Elise Hu. She goes beyond the headlines so you can hear about the big ideas shaping our future.

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year? If so, you'll want to hear this, then how your social life affects your physical health in a very important way. There are now decades of data from medicine and public health that show that our biggest impact on our health is our everyday social world. Everything from what's happening in our homes to our relationships, workplaces, neighborhoods, and broader community. Also, what makes a family happy? Actually, just a few simple things. And the story of the All-American Hamburger The burger as we know it today, with the little soft squishy bun, was really a White Castle creation.

The founder of White Castle took a puck of beef or a ball of beef and he smashed it with onions and cooked it on a griddle. And it had never really been cooked that way before. All this today on Something You Should Know. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like Something You Should Know,

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Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi. Welcome to Something You Should Know. So what are your plans for the holidays this year? I know a lot of people are stressed out about what to do

because the holidays, typically, it's a big travel time, but we're all being warned not to get together with people from other households, let alone take the family on an airplane and go visit someone in a faraway place. While not traveling is disappointing for a lot of people, here are how other people are treating the problem, according to a survey commissioned by the American Hotel and Lodging Association. Only 32% of respondents have actually taken an overnight vacation or leisure trip since March of this year. 21% of Americans say they are likely to travel for Thanksgiving. 24% are likely to travel for Christmas.

For the sake of comparison, in 2018, about 33% of people traveled over Christmas, compared to the 24% who say they may this year. 44% say their next hotel stay for vacation or leisure travel will be a year or more from now, and they have no plans to stay in a hotel.

So certainly fewer people will be traveling this holiday season. The risk of catching the virus is certainly higher than it's been because of the recent spike. And the choice to travel is yours. And that is something you should know. What if you could live a longer and healthier life just by being a little kinder, a little nicer, and having some strong friendships? Well, that seems to be an easy trade-off.

And it turns out there's some real science to back this up, according to my guest, Dr. Kelly Harding. She's an assistant clinical professor of psychiatry at Columbia University Irving Medical Center, and she's author of the book, The Rabbit Effect, Live Longer, Happier, and Healthier with the Groundbreaking Science of Kindness. Hi, Kelly. Welcome to Something You Should Know. Oh, thank you so much. It's such a treat to be here with you and your audience. So first, explain what the rabbit effect is and what rabbits have to do with kindness and health and all. The book gets its title from this study that I discovered during my training as a

physician. It was actually designed for an entirely different reason. At the time, there was this unclear connection between heart health and diet. And so the researchers designed this very straightforward experiment where they gave these rabbits the same high fat diet, and they expected the same outcome. And instead, they got quite a shock. When they went to look at the data, they discovered that one set of rabbits had way better health outcomes than all the others, at like 60% better. And being good researchers, they thought there was something wrong with the protocol, but everything checked out. And then they actually looked at themselves and realized that one of the researchers was a particularly kind and caring individual. And she wasn't just feeding the rabbits. She was

picking up the rabbits. She was petting them. She was offering them love and kindness. And much to their credit, they decided that this finding was far too big to ignore. So they went back and they redid the study, this time with tightly controlled conditions, got the exact same results and published it in the journal Science. And now we have decades of data that reinforce the lessons of that early study. And the lesson is what? Is that when it comes to our health, that our social world is the biggest factor that impacts our health outcomes. And I have to say, as a doctor, Mike, this was absolutely incredible to me. Because, you know, we tend to think of health very narrowly in the United States

in terms of sort of healthcare trips to the clinic, you know diet exercise maybe some of these lifestyle stuff but it turns out that the biggest contributor to our health is our relationships and I think I speak for most people when I say that doesn't seem right that that health is health and social connections and those kinds of things are nice and they're good for us mentally and for stress and all that, but physical health and social connections, okay, so there may be a connection, but maybe not as strong as you're saying. It's absolutely counterintuitive, right? So, and I have to say, so as a doctor, it is medical care and good medical care and access to medical care is critical for every human being.

But that being said, there are now decades of data from medicine and public health that show that our biggest impact on our health is our everyday social world. And so this is everything from what's happening in our homes, to our relationships, to our schools, workplaces, neighborhoods, and broader community. And so make the connection for me. What is it that's going on that kindness and social relationships, how does it work? How does this connection work? So I have to say the way I got interested in this is, you know, I started to notice very early on this mismatch between sort of what we expect with illnesses and then what happens in the hospitals and clinics. So

an example of this would be, you know, two patients with the same diagnosis, one does surprisingly well, despite looking bad on paper, and then the other doesn't fare well. Or the flip side of that is, you know, patients who, who, you know, have a lot of aches and pains, but then, you know, when you do their lab work, their imaging, you know, everything, their exam, everything checks out more or less, but still they're having a difficult time. So it was exactly that mystery that I guess you could say led me down this rabbit hole. Knowing that, what's the practical application of that? What do you do with that knowledge as a doctor? How do you incorporate this so the magic happens? You know, we're all used to being asked, like, do we smoke? Do we exercise? But, you know,

we have to start thinking about health in terms of our broader relationship. So, you know, probably not many of us have been asked by our doctor, you know, do you have a close friend that you've called in the last week? And so that's one piece of it. And we're now starting to see loneliness being addressed much more so actually because of COVID. Yeah, I'd like to get you to talk about loneliness because loneliness has always been a problem. It seems to have been a growing problem. And then COVID seems to have made it an even bigger problem. So talk about loneliness.

You know, unfortunately, the data in this area is particularly striking. So we know even before COVID, the results looking at loneliness were not good in the United States. So we knew that every three out of every five adults reported that they felt lonely almost always or most of the time. And again, that was pre-COVID and all our physical distancing that we've been doing. So that is something that I have to say, I'm so excited in the last year that we've started to talk about that it really matters to our health and our health outcomes. So, you know, I realized I probably should mention that. So the data suggests that, you know, again, while medical care is critically important, it probably only accounts for at most 10 to 20% of our overall health status and everything

else, you know, our genes play a part, but not as much as we once thought. And everything else has to do with this big impact of our social world and our environment. And so what's an ideal social world look like? Or is it dependent? Is everybody different? Do some people need 10 friends and some people just need an occasional buddy? I mean, what is this all in a perfect world? What would this look like?

There are two thoughts with that. The first is that, you know, so when it comes to our relationships, it's both the quality and quantity of our relationships. So, you know, the number of friends we have helps, but it's also the deepness of those relationships. So we can think about, especially in our time of physical distancing, how we can build those connections with other people. And that's something that every one of us has something in our power to do. And that includes, you know, reaching out to people that are already within your circles to try to deepen some of those relationships. And the other thing is for people listening, maybe considering reaching

out to somebody that they think might be feeling a bit lonely and checking in, just seeing how they're doing. There's actually much more in our power than we realize. And so if you create a better social network, if you have more social connections, what can you expect from that? Is it that you will be healthier or that you will be less ill? Because those are two different sides of the same coin. It's one thing to not be sick. It's another thing to be real healthy. I mean, what do you get from this? And how do you measure that? You're right. It's two sides of the same coin. And also just being human beings,

the tendency is we all develop things over our lifetime. And so the goal is, and the reason I felt so compelled to write about this data for people far outside medicine and public health in the hospital is because it's really important to know that people not only help prevent disease, but also fare better with diseases when they have a more active, supportive social network. So, you know, the amazing thing is it really doesn't take that much. And it's something we all have in our power. And, you know, that's the ability to connect with another human being. We are innately social creatures. And it turns out there's ample data now that shows that this has a huge ripple effect

on our health. We're talking about how kindness and social connections affect your health in ways you probably didn't realize. And my guest is psychiatrist Dr. Kelly Harding. She is author of the book, The Rapid Effect, Live Longer, Happier and Healthier with the groundbreaking land of Camelot. Look for The Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives.

So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool.

And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson, discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. So Kelly, one of the things I really want to get a better handle on here is that you said that you say our social life has an effect on our health, but I'm still trying to figure out how. Like,

it prevents cancer or it'll make you not ache and have as many aches and pains as you might other. How does it affect your health? So, it's most likely mediated through stress. And we know that stress is sort of this touch point in terms of that affects all causes of disease. It can sort of like turn the dial up or down physiologically. So that can be both in terms of sort of our immune response to different conditions and also how we heal from them and how we experience them. So you're right, it's interesting. There are studies showing that people have less pain when they're holding the hands of a positive, supportive loved one. And there's also studies that show, actually, there's some really brilliant studies that show that when people are exposed to viruses, those that had more frequent hugs and support either were less likely to get sick, like 32% less likely to get sick, or if they did get sick, they didn't get as sick as those who didn't support, have the social support. And now,

again, we've got decades of data that show this sort of throughout all these different areas of our lives. What about people who maybe aren't that touchy-feely? You know, they don't necessarily like hugs. Maybe they're alone or they don You know, they don't necessarily like hugs. Maybe they're alone or they don't really, they don't feel necessarily lonely. They just don't like to be in crowds and have lots of people around them that occasionally that's fine, but that's not who they are. So there are so many different ways to connect. You know, we have to do something that feels genuine and appropriate for us. And as human beings, we all have different ways of expressing care and support. So, you know, I actually, I want to talk about workplaces for a moment, because I know many of us are working virtually now. But,

you know, we talked about that it's important to have a good doctor, but it's actually critically important to have a good manager or boss. So when you're in talking to your co workers, you can do things just to value them as a human being. And it can be as little as sort of checking in how things are going. I have joked and actually, that, you know, we can probably toss out our human resources manuals and just replace them with be kind, because it turns out, you know, work is a huge predictor of our overall health status. In what way? So there are these large studies that show that people who have less autonomy, less flexibility at work have worse health outcomes than those who have more supportive

work environments. It's interesting. There's even studies that show more supportive workplaces have 50% less health costs than other less supportive places. You know, there are even little things like how we behave at work. So there are studies showing that, you know, taking a nap during the day is health protective and heart protective. But, you know, we have to have a culture that values self-care as part of our working. And the irony is there's also all these studies from business that show that supportive workplaces are more productive. Isn't it interesting how, as you talk and people hear what you're saying, we all get a sense that, yes, we like when we're with other people, that connection thing feels good. And yet we almost look at it as if like it's unnecessary, that it's, you know, self-care, you know, it's so touchy-feely. And what we really

need to do is get back to work and get the job done. And yet that's not our experience. Our experience is this actually feels good. This seems to work. That's what's so striking. And that's why I feel so compelled to get the word out that this isn't just something that's nice to have. It's actually critical to our health. And it's not just kindness to ourselves, but it's kindness to others. And there's interesting studies that show that it's not just taking care of ourselves, but it's also in the act of helping others and taking care of others that we also boost our health. Like there are studies that show that volunteers live longer. So it's not just good for the recipient, but also for the doer. It seems that creating new social connections and being part of new social networks and all of that, seems as if that gets difficult as you get older.

It's easier when you're a kid to make new friends, but we kind of get set in our ways. You know, we have our friends, we like who we like. New friends don't often have the appeal that maybe they once did. It's worth rethinking that because every time you have these sort of, again, they're sort of, again, they're sort of like the loose social ties and then the deep social ties. So, you know, when it comes to our loose social ties, which are, you know, everything from talking to the clerk at the store to waving at a neighbor out on the street, don't underestimate that. That actually counts

towards this sort of collective community building. And so there's multiple opportunities during the day. Now there's less than there were, you have to be a little bit more intentional with the pandemic going on and physical distancing. I just want to also add that everyone that is listening to your podcast has experienced kindness towards them. And sometimes they are things that happened years ago, but it's never too late to reach out to them. And sometimes they are things that happened years ago, but it's never too late to reach out to someone. And some of the most beautiful stories are actually reconnecting with people from the past that you've had in your life that have been supportive. The idea of kindness, though, it's so interesting that kindness seems to be a rarer and rarer commodity. And yet, you're saying that the

science says that kindness has bigger and bigger benefits. I think there's a misperception about kindness, something about sort of being a pushover or just sort of going with the flow. But that's not always the case. You know, kindness takes tremendous courage, and it's a practice. And, you know, we mess up, and we got to start over again. My kids like to remind me that I wrote a book about kindness. But I think the thing that's important to know about it is it's a skill, and it's something that we can do and build throughout our lifetime. We're far more likely to be kind when we're not rushed or under pressure.

Studies show that too. So, you know, you want to think about maybe pausing for a moment sometimes to center yourself as you're thinking about different ways that you can be kind. That's particularly important in the workplace settings as well, or before heading into a conflict as well. Well, this conversation has to make you stop and think that, you know, kindness is so simple. I mean, it isn't that hard to be kind. And yet we so often forget to do it. You know, I gave a talk this week to a group of seventh graders in California, actually, and young junior high students. And one of them asked exactly that. Why do people forget to be kind? And it's something so simple, but it makes such a profound difference. And you never know how a

simple action may have a positive impact on someone else's life. And I have the privilege of, as a doctor, hearing people's experiences. And I know that sometimes something so small makes a huge impact on someone else. So I just want to encourage all the listeners out there to know that your actions really matter. They really make a difference. Well, it seems based on what you're saying is we need to rethink healthcare. It isn't just about medical care. There's a lot more to it. We've traditionally in the United States thought of health as this very narrow concept in terms of healthcare. But I just want you to realize, and I want the listeners to realize that health is so

much more. It's such a broader concept. And one of the areas that we see a particular impact is in education. And so there are studies that show that for every one life saved by biomedicine, education saves eight. So that means everyone who's listening that's a teacher or supports a learner at home, that you're actually contributing to the health of that person. And what's exciting about this, Mike, is that it's not just learning while we're in formal school, but we actually have the capacity to do lifelong learning. And this is where the technology is particularly helpful because, you know, even doing things like listening to a podcast can be beneficial for our health as long as we're continuing to make those new neural connections

and get more engaged in our world. Well, that's fascinating. You said you had a million of them. If you've got another one or two, I'd love to hear them. Oh, sure. You've also probably heard that in the United States, our zip code is a better predictor of our health than our genetic code, unfortunately. And so our neighborhoods matter. But what's exciting is we also know that things like greening neighborhoods are very helpful for reducing stress. And there have even been studies

that it lowers rates of depression to be exposed to greenery and nature. And it also can do things like reduce gun violence, even in low income neighborhoods. There's some interesting studies around that. So I think the thing is, while nature, I mean, I live in New York City, so I know this well, nature is not always readily available. But even little bits of nature, like having a plant at home can be helpful. And even there's studies showing that caring for that plant is beneficial for your health. Well, as you said earlier, this is so counterintuitive, because I think when people think of what's important to their health, it's medical care, diet, and exercise. And clearly from what you're saying is it's so much more than that. And it's really interesting to hear. Dr. Kelly Harding has been my guest. She's an assistant clinical professor of psychiatry

at Columbia University Irving Medical Center. And the name of her book is The Rabbit Effect. Live longer, happier, and healthier with the groundbreaking science of kindness. And you will find a link to that book in the show notes. Hey, everyone. Join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa Demonts, for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? Each week, we deliver four fun-filled shows.

In Don't Blame Me, we tackle our listeners' dilemmas with hilariously honest advice. Then we have But Am I Wrong?, which is for the listeners that didn't take our advice. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events. Then tune in to see you next Tuesday for our Lister poll results from But Am I Wrong? And finally, wrap up your week with Fisting Friday, where we catch up and talk all things pop culture. Listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. Do you love Disney? Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. There is nothing we don't cover. We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney themed games, and fun facts you didn't

know you needed, but you definitely need in your life. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. The hamburger may have its roots in Germany, hence the name hamburger, but it has become a very American food. There is probably no other food so closely related to modern American culture as the hamburger. So how did it get started? And how did the humble burger become so popular? No one knows better about this than Seth Gonzalez. Seth is also known as Burger Beast.

He started a burger blog back in 2008, and he is author of a book simply called All About the Burger. Hi, Seth. Hey, thanks so much for having me. So start at the beginning. Where does the hamburger originate? Well, the name hamburger comes from Germany, from Hamburg. And there was a thing called the Hamburg steak. It made its way over here through the ports. And when it arrived here, you know, it just morphed into a sandwich.

So the thing from Germany was not a hamburger? No, it was a steak. And that's the thing why it's really an American thing, even though it has the name, because its origins are kind of from Germany and coming in through the port. It was really at all these little county fairs that existed all around the world back in the late 1800s, early 1900s. And that's where you would initially find people doing burgers. And back then, a burger could have been considered anything from

a smashed meatball to just like a puck of beef. And so the burger that we know today, when did it first get, start getting some traction in this country and, and why did it take off the way it did? The burger, as we know it today with the little soft squishy bun was, was, was really a white castle creation and white castle kind of people in the Midwest are familiar with it.

But what they did is the founder of White Castle took a puck of beef or a ball of beef and he smashed it with onions and cooked it on a griddle. And it had never really been cooked that way before. Usually it was just a slab of beef or, like I said, a meatball that might have gone smushed between two buns but he had created a technique that ultimately kind of now known as a smash burger and it was really made for working people it was five cents for people on the go now back then there was a lot of issues with beef not being safe to eat so the big thing was that they were called the white

castle for their cleanliness you could come in in, they would get the beef ground for them, delivered daily, so was the bun. And it just had a few stools. You would come in, they had coffee and the burgers, and that's it. That was the entire menu. So really, White Castle is the birthplace of the modern American hamburger. Right. Without White Castle, we don't have burgers as we currently have. I mean, the burger that we see everywhere is does not exist. They're the ones who pioneered that, amongst other things. You know, the popularization of, you know, paper hats that you always see, you know, at the old school diners wearing paper hats and and, you know, about standardization across restaurants. A lot of that was them. And are they still around?

They are still around. They're based out of Columbus, Ohio. They're still family owned from the original family. They do not franchise. So they're expanding very slowly. But quality control on White Castle, you go there and you go to any other White Castle, you're going to get the same experience pretty much. And so White Castle does well, takes off, people now know what a

burger is. And then what happened? Everyone starts copying White Castle. There were so many copycats, they couldn't even keep up with the lawsuits that were going on. And what I mean, everyone, I'm talking about hundreds of people from like a red castle on a blue castle to you know a white tower and they were not only copying the food itself but they were copying the building that was made to look like a castle what did that first white castle burger look like in comparison to what we think of today as a hamburger would it would it look like a hamburger that we see today or differently? It would probably look like a very ugly small burger to you. It was a couple ounces with just onions and just on a bun.

The original, you know, going pre-White Castle were like pucks. So they were kind of like a smashed meatball. If you were to take a meatball right now and smash it down, the White Castle was cooked smashed. So it was thinner, rounder, and they actually were the ones who created the buns that also popularized it. So it is probably the ugly little brother

of what we consider a burger today. And then if you look at the timeline of the hamburger after White Castle, what's the next big thing? The burger, you know, began to evolve, obviously. And so those sliders, which is kind of what White Castle pioneered, you know, you had all the diners and the drive-ins, like the greasy spoon burgers that everyone kind of liked cooking on a flat top. But the next big boom, I would say, would have been definitely the opening of McDonald's. The original McDonald Brothers McDonald's.

Right, the one that opened in 1948. And why? Why was that so, why was that noteworthy? Well, I think that they were able to take something that was growing in popularity and figured out how to take it to the masses in a much simpler form. Up until that point, you would go to a car hop, for example, a drive-in, and you would park at a car hop and come in, you would order your food, and you would pay at the end. They kind of switched everything up.

You would come up to the window, window order and they had a system in place where the food will get you know for lack of a better word pumped out of there very fast there wasn't a lot of waiting around there's a lot of dead time back in the day when you ordered a burger they kind of simplified the system behind the scenes and also from from picking it up it was a little odd i think people are so accustomed to pay for their food now and then you get the food after the fact uh but it really wasn't that way so when mcdonald's first was like you come to a window and you order and they're like hey i need you know 5.99 most customers were what are you talking about you haven't given me my food yet they were not accustomed to to it they kind of turned everything on its ear the main reason

probably for them to to create this known method was drive-ins were very popular and the the folks who used to go to the drive-ins weren't really families like you kind of see in films it was a lot of teenagers who used to just hang around you know the, the guys hitting on the car hops, that sort of thing. And they were trying to figure out a better system to sell food and get to families, because families was really what everyone's goal was in the restaurant industry. So the McDonald's that was started by the two McDonald brothers in California in 1948 was very successful. It was a single restaurant, I think, right? Or maybe there was one other.

But it was a small operation, but a very successful operation. And then Ray Kroc comes along and everything changes. Right. Ray Kroc was able to see what was going on with McDonald's and saw the future of how to expand the system. He, at the time, worked for Prince Castle, which was the company that sold a lot of the milkshake machines. And he pitched them the idea where he would sell franchises. They initially were not interested. They had someone who was selling franchises for them.

And when he took over i mean uh you know when once he got involved that's really when mcdonald's really started expanding but he you know he really didn't start to get really into it around mid-50s and by then other restaurants had already opened like burger king um and that was a totally different, you know, thing that was going on. But McDonald's, when he took it over, and he started expanding to very similar to the way White Castle did. Now everyone started copying what what McDonald's was doing. The way these businesses were run back then, you know, you're talking Burger King and Hardee's, all these places were looking to the way McDonald's had set up their business,

and they were just doing a variation of that. One of the things I remember about going to McDonald's several years ago, and one of the things I think probably contributed to their success, was how limited the menu was. When you go into a restaurant and you get a menu, theoretically, there's going to be lots of choices for you to choose something to eat. But at McDonald's, it was just burgers, fries, milkshakes, and soft drinks. And that was it. Right. The menus were much smaller at the time also.

It's not like what you see at most fast food restaurants. The only company that I've seen that's from that era is in and out out of the west coast who's managed to keep their menu very small they're still doing fries burgers and and shakes they've never really added like a chicken component or any type of seafood component to the menu um and they're still using the same you know brands that they used back in the day and in and out burger because i live i don't know maybe two miles from one and go buy it a lot it's packed it's always packed from 11 o'clock in the morning till late at night the line of cars is huge and all there is is burgers fries shakes

and soft drinks yeah that's and that's another family-owned business. Right. And from day one, they've kept it, like you mentioned, the same way. And I think that's part of people's attraction to it. I don't think you need to keep adding 10 million things to the menu. And besides the fact that it's going to slow down the kitchen. When I think of the phrase, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, I think of In-N-Out Burger because it's very simple.

The menu never changes. There aren't very many things on it. And yet the devotion to In-N-Out Burger, it's amazing. Yeah, I don't want to use the term, but I'm going to and say that they're kind of like a cult. Yeah, I agree. I agree. So, but the burger itself, I mean, it has changed. I remember being surprised when I first went to a McDonald's and got a hamburger how kind of nothing it was.

It was thin. It was small. It wasn't a hamburger like I was expecting. And the hamburger itself has evolved from that into so many other things. Can you go through the history of that a little bit? Yeah, so the burgers obviously started very small. Like I said, they were a couple of ounces. And over time, the size just started growing.

I think probably if we could go back, I think a lot of people think in terms of the Whopper, one that came around in 57. But the truth is the Whopper was inspired by Whataburger because Whataburger was serving their burger. Whataburger is out of Texas, was serving their burgers on a five-inch bun. And there was no one else doing that. There was four-inches bun. It was a custom-made bun. And it was actually that era, that time that things kind of started, that almost sounds ridiculous, things were just getting larger, you know,

and that's in the 50s. And as we just keep progressing, you know, that's that's in the in the in the 50s and and as we just keep progressing you know they started doing double burgers you know i i would probably say double burgers kind of were a thing before giant burgers were you know and then from there when you start getting into restaurant burgers they were never that small they were a little more substantial so you're talking three or four ounce i mean the popular burgers right now are usually only three to four ounces but i'm saying usually like three three to four ounces before ounces a quarter of a pound which is pretty big yeah when and when you consider the original one was only two ounces that's double and that goes

for everything if we're going to even talk about fast food where if you see an old cola cup and it's like a half the size of a small right now and that was the standard cup i mean just everything over time has just grown in size is there anything in the history of the hamburger that that was a real turning point or that that took the industry you know into a left-hand turn that nobody saw coming? Any big upset? The only thing I would say that kind of shook things up as far as taste was when they moved to frozen patties. Everything was always fresh back in the day. And there was a gradual movement to by the 70s, most restaurants or fast food restaurants, I should say, you know, the bigger, the well-known chains move to frozen to make it easier.

But nowadays, it's kind of like they're going reverse because if you're using frozen beef, you're kind of frowned upon. McDonald's a couple of years ago switched their quarter pounder back to fresh beef. But places like In-N-Out, they've always done fresh beef. Even White Castle, whose little sliders they switched in the 40s to frozen little patties, some select locations now have fresh beef burgers. And they're actually named after the year they opened. So the burger is called the 1921. In your mind and from your research, was there or is there or will there ever be like the the golden era of the burger i would say the better burger era which would have been the late 70s early 80s that brought around stuff like fudruckers you know uh johnny rockets came about in that period of time also

and then now more recently in the early 2000s uh kind of spearheaded, I would say, by things like Shake Shack. And, you know, there's like BurgerFi and Freddy's and Habit Burger. They're like the new wave of great burgers. So it seems like they come in waves. When I started my food blog in 2008, I thought, I'm going to write this great blog about burgers. And I realized there wasn't really a lot to write about, at least locally here in Miami, Florida. And that caused me to start searching out and doing road trips to find all these other places. And eventually, the burger boom started again, right around late 2009, early 2010.

I happen to be just, I guess, in the midst of it happening. I was surprised to read that Taco Bell was originally a burger place. Yes, and it was actually down the street from the original McDonald's. So what happened there? They realized that the tacos were going to be a better fit for them. There was no way they could compete. They were down the street from the original uh mcdonald's brothers uh version of mcdonald's and glenn bell decided you know it's better to go with the whole taco there was actually a burger on the menu for years

after that but yeah they they decided and it was a smart move obviously to have switched over to tacos do you have a sense of of like m McDonald's, I assume is, is the biggest of the fast food burger places and who's in second place and how far back are they? I mean, is there a sense of, do you have a sense of like the top five and where they fall? You know, for a long time, Burger King was number two. And one of my favorite things to talk about is the burger wars of the 80s, right? McDonald's was in the lead. Burger King was in second, barely holding on.

And Wendy's was coming up. Wendy's had just been founded. And Burger King saw, I guess, they were losing ground to Wendy's. And they started a series of, you know, attacks through media, through print, through commercials. And, you know, Hardee's got in on the action. But it's kind of hard to say who's really, you know, the top five. Always in everyone's mind, it's Burger King, Wendy's, and McDonald's. And the other ones will fluctuate because you have things like Carl's Jr., who purchased Hardee's, and they've been the same company since the late 90s.

And if you're familiar, I don't know if you're familiar with Hardee's, but Hardee's was a totally different a carol was in the north carolina thing you know they were totally different you know and carl's jr is a west coast thing and they purchased them and they essentially made the hardy's menu the carl's jr menu the only thing carl's jr took from hardy's was the breakfast so they kind of totally merged it. So they count them as one company, and I believe they are in the top five, but they're really two different entities. What about any quirky little stories in the history of the burger? Here's an interesting thing.

Burger King, there's a Burger King in Mattoon, Illinois. They opened up up and they were originally called frigid queen they changed the burger king in 57 that was i believe the same year burger king became burger king because burger king was actually originally called insta burger king when it was founded in 53 in jacksonville at some point, as Burger King was expanding, it wanted to move into the area where this Burger King was. And they filed a lawsuit and the actual Burger King Corporation, the one we know, ended up losing the lawsuit because that Burger King predated it. So to this day, in the United States, there are Burger Kings everywhere, except within a couple mile radius of

the Burger King of Mattoon, Illinois, which has nothing to do with the corporation. Well, and since you are the burger expert, I would be remiss if I didn't ask you, what is your favorite? What do you think is the best hamburger? What's your favorite? I went to Bill's Hamburgers in Amory, Mississippi. I had heard that it was one of the best burgers that I could possibly have. I was totally shocked. I went in there and just had a single, and I ended up having two doubles right after that.

That should tell you everything. What was so great about it? Number one, it's locally sourced beef right down the street. The buns are made locally also, and it's very simple. It's just cooked on a griddle. It's got pickled mustard, onion, I believe I had on it. And I find that those are the best burgers. If you try to have them, you know, just pickled mustard, onion, some variation of that. I guess it harkens back to a, you know, simpler time. Well, the hamburger is certainly part of the

American culture now. And it's really interesting to hear the story of how it started, how it developed, and how it grew. My guest has been Seth Gonzalez. He is also known as Burger Beast. He has a burger blog, and he is author of the book All About the Burger. There's a link to his blog and to the book in the show notes. Thank you, Seth. No, thank you. I had a blast. Ever wonder what makes a family a happy family?

Well, it's probably a million different things, but here are some of the surprising results of some research by Richard Eyre. He's author of the book, The Happy Family. First, strong traditions. Birthdays, holidays, any kind of strong family traditions are the mortar that hold a family together and give a sense of family identity. Many people believe this is why some kids join gangs,

because gangs offer them exactly that. Number two, family history. Kids love to know about their grandparents and their great-grandparents. It gives them a sense of place and a sense of belonging. And family time. Many kids and parents are so overscheduled that family time together is sacrificed. Spending more time together can only strengthen a happy family. And that is something you should know. If you like this podcast, remember to

subscribe and tell everyone in the world you know to do the same thing. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church

for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan.

Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a co-founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network called The Search for the Silver Lightning, a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. During her journey, Isla meets new friends,

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