Something You Should Know - How Horses Shaped History & The Surprising Upside of Laziness – SYSK Choice

Starting point is 00:00:00 There is one word, I think, gets people in trouble with money. It's probably. I'm probably spending about this much every month. I'm probably saving enough. I'm probably on track for retirement. Probably is not a financial plan. I've been using Monarch. It's a personal finance app that puts your whole financial picture in one place.

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Starting point is 00:01:28 Monarch.com with code SYSK. Today on something you should know, you're probably handling a lot less cash today than you used to, and that is such a good thing. Then you're about to hear all the amazing ways horses have changed your life. We didn't wear pants until we started riding horses because they're not comfortable, so pants were invented specifically for horseback riding. Horses produced the serum for the first vaccines for. diphtheria and tetanus. There's so many interesting stories connected to the horse.

Starting point is 00:02:06 Also, the connection between air conditioning and being overweight. And you like this, the many benefits of being lazy. It's about really about achieving more in your life by actually doing less. So it's strategic laziness. We have to eliminate something so that we can be very good at one specific thing. All this today on something you should know. A big thank you to today's sponsor, Vinted. I think most of us have what I call someday clothes.

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Starting point is 00:04:09 And we're going to start today talking about money. No doubt you've noticed over the last few years that more and more we're going cashless. There are fewer cash transactions than before, and some retailer, some places you can't even use cash anymore. And that may be a good thing because money, as you've probably heard, is very dirty. But how dirty? Well, a study found that some strains of the flu can survive on paper money

Starting point is 00:04:37 for up to three days. And get this, up to 17 days if there's mucus involved. On top of that, one researcher cultured-68-1-bills and discovered that all but four of them had colonies of dangerous bacteria

Starting point is 00:04:55 that could cause staff infections and pneumonia. When they tested coins, they tested a little better. They have lower levels of germs, most likely, because they've got trace metals that inhibit the growth of microbes. The best way to reduce your exposure to all this yuck is to use credit and debit cards instead of paper currency as much as possible. But when you do have to use money,

Starting point is 00:05:21 it's probably a good idea to reach for the hand sanitizer. And that is something you should know. You are about to hear something amazing. Well, actually, a lot of amazing things. All about horses. And look, I am no horse guy. But horses have changed your life and the entire course of human history in ways you never knew.

Starting point is 00:05:49 Just, for instance, horses are the reason we wear pants. Yeah. You'll hear that story coming up and so much more. This is going to be fun. So meet my guest, Timothy Weingard. He's been on before talking about mosquitoes, the most deadly animal on the planet. And I highly recommend that episode. It's episode 732.

Starting point is 00:06:13 Timothy has a new book out called The Horse, a galloping history of humanity. Hey, Timothy, welcome back to something you should know. Thank you for having me. So what is a horse? And where do they come from? So it's the result of 60 million years of evolution. that actually takes place in North America. The epicenter of equine evolution is Wyoming, Colorado, Montana area,

Starting point is 00:06:38 and over 60 million years, it evolves from a 10-pound, roughly the size of a fox with multiple toes on each feet to the magnificent creature that we have today. And was that natural evolution, or was it engineered somehow or what? No, it's natural evolution over 60 million years, largely driven by climate change. So we see lush kind of more forest give way to grasslands in this animal through survival pressures. And natural selection evolves to a larger animal to eat graze on grass instead of browsing on leaves and shrubbery.

Starting point is 00:07:19 Its toes morph into essentially a single hoof on the hard grasslands and step of both the American prairies and also Eurasia, where its first domesticated roughly 3,500 BCE. So they started here, but they were domesticated there. Well, they die out really all over the world, except for a small pocket on the Pontic Caspian steppe, north of the Black and Caspian seas in Ukraine, southern Russia, Kazakhstan. So, for example, they go extinct in the Americas roughly 9,000 years ago, and really by 4,000 BCE, they're extinct all over the planet,

Starting point is 00:07:56 save for this small pocket on the larger Eurasian step known as the Pontic Caspian step, and they're really reigned in from extinction by human domestication. And so how did that happen? How did the domestication of horses get started? Like every other literal livestock, the horse is a later domesticate to our barnyard animals. Most other animals are kind of domesticated between 10 and 8,000 years ago, and the horse is roughly 5,500 years ago, and that's simply because it wasn't very prevalent anywhere

Starting point is 00:08:30 except for this small, secluded area on the Pontic Caspian step. So it's originally domesticated for its milk, its meat, and its secondary products from its hides, its hooves, its in use, its bones. And then quickly, the first people to domesticate the horse realize its utilitarian purpose and very quickly start to selectively breed the horse for a calmer temperament and a flatter back,

Starting point is 00:08:59 which aids the ability to ride. So it very quickly turns into this pinnacle of biotechnology, if you will, and a living machine. Are horses everywhere, or are there some places, some climates where they just don't adapt well? No, they are everywhere. Actually, some of the most sophisticated horses are the ones that turn into the thoroughbred, such as the Turkoman horse, which is largely from the deserts of Turkmenistan or the Arabian horse, become some of the premier horses in the world because of their speed. So the horse is a unique creature, and that it possesses this unique combination of size, speed, strength, and stamina that's very unique to the animal kingdom,

Starting point is 00:09:46 which we harness for our own utilitarian purposes. and it quickly becomes, in a sense, the Swiss Army knife of animals and our premier sidekick in forging and making human history alongside ourselves. It's really a centurion pact that these two animals, human beings and horses, really dominate the landscape of human history for 5,500 years. You say that the horses are the Swiss Army knife of animals, which, you know, I like that description because when you think about all the things horses do and can do and how adaptable they are, it's pretty amazing. Yeah, I mean, we use the horse for everything, for farming, for travel, for

Starting point is 00:10:30 trade, for migration, certainly for war. And what the horse did was make the world influential, inevitably a smaller place. Our global village became interconnected, and that included the rapid exchange of ideas, of people, of pathogens, of spirituality, of invention, and it made the world truly a very small global village by enhancing the ability to essentially get the word out. And it's an equine revolution in really in all of human history. Are horses very smart? I know some of your listeners might not like this answer,

Starting point is 00:11:08 but no, they're not as smart as we wish they were. I think that's a very politically correct answer. They're not as smart as we imagine them to be or think they are. but they possess certain adaptable traits and social conventions that are lend themselves to be domesticated so very few animals when we think of the animal kingdom have the right package of traits and behavioral social patterns to allow themselves to be domesticated it's kind of like a barnyard stockholm syndrome where you know both creatures need to get what they want. So for horses, they got reproduction, they got fed, and they got a herd mentality

Starting point is 00:11:50 mimicked by human beings and certainly other horses in captivity, where for humans, we got a multi-purpose living machine that essentially dominated our existence for 5,500 years. But no, most of it is instinctive behavior with horses or classical conditioning. A good example of that is getting horses to charge. They're designed for flight, obviously, not fight. They don't have claws, they don't have sharp teeth, they don't have horns. And their evolution is designed for flight, not fight. We can get them to charge headlong into a symphony of destruction during battle. And that's an innate social behavior from how the herd mentality works, that we can mimic that in combat.

Starting point is 00:12:34 Although I should say we can get humans to do the same thing, so maybe we're not very smart either. I don't know. So I understand that we've domesticated what is now. the modern horse, but there are also horses in the wild, as I understand it. So how did they get to be in the wild? Well, actually, there's no true wild horses left on the planet. So all the horses we refer to as wild, whether they be in the American Southwest, Canada, Australia, the Marquesas has so-called wild horses. They're really feral domestics that either escaped or were released and now essentially breed in the wild but they're not truly wild horses every horse on the planet is

Starting point is 00:13:19 is a domesticate or a feral domesticate and that includes the subspecies there's only one species of horse but the subspecies chivalski horse which is a squad often called the mongolian horse about 800 pounds smaller than a cabaline horse um that live in mon have been re-released in mongolia and kazakhstan they were again bred from a select few that survived survived after the Second World War, there was less than 20, and they've been bred and then re-released into the wild, so to speak. So actually, there's no wild horses. We refer to them that way, but they're technically feral domestics. So when I think of a domesticated animal, I think of, well, like a dog. A dog does well in a house full of people and maybe likes the company

Starting point is 00:14:07 of other dogs, but does fine with people. Would horses rather be in the company of other horses? in that way, or are they fine just with humans or what? I think it might depend on the horse, but no, they still have a herd mentality and they prefer to be around other horses. And you see that in these feral or wild herds, they still have their herd mentality and that innate social behavior that they have, whether it be the stallion harem herds or the bachelor herds, which are all males, whether they be males that are old and now no longer have their harems or young males who are trying to acquire one. I like to call them the reject herds. So you have these herds of all males and then the stallion harem herds.

Starting point is 00:14:54 But what we see is they pull these horses, these wild or feral horses off the range and they can domesticate them fairly quickly or retame them, I guess, is a better way to put it for adoption. And so I spent my Sunday. We have some wild horses up here near Grand Junction, Colorado, where I now live and teach. They're called the Book Cliff horses, and they pull these horses to call them. They pull them off and then adopt them. So I spent my Sunday with some of these,

Starting point is 00:15:21 what were wild or feral horses that are now family pets. All the fascinating things you never knew about horses. That's our topic today. My guest is Timothy Weingard. His book is called The Horse, a galloping history of humanity. New from Nespresso.

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Starting point is 00:16:28 So Timothy, is there anywhere on earth where horses are raised for meat? There are people still eat a lot of horse meat? Yeah, a billion people on the planet still regularly consume horse meat. We forget that it's really spiritual conventions that kind of dictated why the Western world and the Middle East, they don't eat horses anymore. But really, it's for financial reasons. Horses were too valuable as a weapon of war and as a profit-producing animal for farm. and trade and travel as well as war, obviously, to be eaten.

Starting point is 00:17:08 So a lot of these spiritual edicts that are passed, whether that's Christianity in 732 or certainly in the Quran, and then the dietary restrictions of Judaism prevent them from eating horses. So realistically, they were too valuable to be eaten, and they produced bigger crops, which meant the church got a larger cut in tithes. So there's some economic,

Starting point is 00:17:34 factors to why we don't eat horses, but they still are eaten by a billion people on the planet today. Wow. Ever eaten it? I have. I have eaten horse, and it is actually quite delicious. I haven't eaten it very often, but I have tried it along with every other fair across my travels around the world, so I'm just a curious person. What else about horses would surprise me, and I don't know much about horses, but you've

Starting point is 00:18:03 mentioned a few times, you know, your listeners might find this surprising. Well, what else might we find surprising? Well, I think looking at it from a historical point, we often overlook things that are so obvious or so omnipresent in our civilization, and that's horses. And we forget the historical power and the agency that these animals had in laying the groundwork and changing the trajectory of human history across numerous civilizations. And they were literally the living machine we use for everything. So imagine our lives today, if we took away subways, the internal combustion engine, planes, trains, automobiles,

Starting point is 00:18:44 that would be the equivalent of taking away horses from our ancestors. And so they fundamentally change the rules to the game of life, whether that be farming and food production, which led to greater population expansion, whether it be the ability for conquerors to take and hold empires the exchange of ideas and knowledge, they really opened up the world and made it small and modern in a sense. And the equine revolution was equally, if not more profound than the industrial revolution or the agricultural revolution before it. It's just that we overlooked this because it

Starting point is 00:19:21 seems like a no-brainer. But some of the smaller facts is we didn't wear pants until we started riding horses because they're not comfortable. So pants were invented specifically for horseback riding. The first people to domesticate horses spread recreational marijuana use across Eurasia. Horses produce the serum for the first vaccines for diphtheria and tetanus. There's so many smaller interesting stories connected to the horse that we just often overlook. The reason we're speaking English right now, which is an Indo-European language, is because the first domesticated horses had the ability to get the word out. And that was Indo-European. the language of these first riders.

Starting point is 00:20:04 That's why 48% of the people on the planet speak in Indo-European language, their language. They also spread their DNA across Eurasia. So it's fascinating to see the initial impacts and certainly the longevity of how this animal shaped and created our own history and influenced our modern world order. Wait a minute. You said we didn't wear pants until horseback riding? No, we did not wear pants. horses created the most popular gender fluid fashion in the history of, you know,

Starting point is 00:20:37 Homo sapiens. So before we rode horses, people were togas and sarongs and raps and kilts and all other sorts of, I guess, wraps is a good way to say it. And you get on a horse because they didn't have saddles originally. So you get on a horse wearing one of those garments and you will quickly realize that we need to invent something else to ride horses. And so The first pair of pants were for fashion specifically for these Indo-European horseback riders who domesticate the horse originally. And the oldest pair we find is from 1,300 BCE. And they found them on a mummy in the Tarran Basin in west, what is now Western China,

Starting point is 00:21:20 Jingzang province. And that's how far Indo-Europeans spread east with their language and their DNA. And these pants actually, they're reinforced in the groin area, in the butt. to be specific for riding, and they have patterns on them, these woolen pants, and they're quite amazing. And I actually looked online because I thought these pants are so cool, I want a pair. They've already been reproduced and you can buy them on the internet now. Shocking, right? And do you have, you have some. Of course you do. They're on order. They're coming. I'm going to get a reproduction of the first pair of pants ever.

Starting point is 00:21:55 there are a lot of references in the English language to horses horsepower is one why do we use horse power as a measure for for power so it's it's the energy output of an engine and it was originally compared to horses and that's it speaks and it's a testament to the influence of horses on our everyday lives that we we have so much vocabulary or phrases in the English language from horses or our existence with horses, whether that be our bits and pieces or straight from the horse's mouth or running roughshod over somebody or horsepower itself as a unit of energy produced by engines. So it's amazing just in our common vernacular how much

Starting point is 00:22:46 of our daily, not just our Indo-European language of English, but how much of our daily colloquial phrases come from horses in our close-tide relationship to these animals within our Centurion Pact throughout history. What did the introduction of the combustion engine do to the horse business? Because we didn't need them so much anymore. No, and it's at the pinnacle of the use of horses actually. In the 1890s, really, up until 1920, there's about 150 million horses on the planet. And you think of these big cities in the 1890s. New York City alone had somewhere between 250,000 and 300,000 horses just in New York City alone. And that includes the massive amounts of manure and urine that they're donating to the streets,

Starting point is 00:23:38 leading to what's called the Great Maneur Crisis of 1894. And we've all watched Seinfeld in these movies that take place in New York with those brownstone row houses, where they have the stairs that go up. to the first floor. Well, there's a very practical reason for that. It's so your first floor rose above the sea of manure and urban filth that was streaming down the streets. The manure was unbelievable in these urban centers in the escorting disease obviously as well. So at the pinnacle of the use of horses both for farming and for urban transportation, I mean they did everything in the cities, pulled omnibuses equivalent to our local subways or buses they transported goods and produce and

Starting point is 00:24:25 product and people the internal combustion engine comes along and actually the horse was largely forgotten fairly quickly the transition to a motorized society um really from 1908 to 1920 in the u.s happened so rapidly that a lot of these horses are eaten uh they're let go to become these feral horse herds we talked about earlier, or they're turned into pet food. And it's a sad story from the 1930s onward, really until the 1970s. These wild Mustangs in the West are rounded up and sold as kennel rations for your dog or your cat. And now there's laws obviously preventing that. So given that we don't need horses to do a lot of the work that they used to do, It seems like horses are, their role is being transitioned and they're used for a lot of other things.

Starting point is 00:25:21 Can you talk about that? We're using them for equine-based therapy now, for trauma victims, for at-risk children, for inmates. These wild horses are pulled off the range, and they're actually brought to prisons in Colorado, where they're used by inmates and to be rehabilitated, to be adopted, and the recidivism rates are dramatically lower with inmates who participate. in this wild horse inmate program or whip as it's called. Militarys still use horses to patrol in accessible areas, the U.S. military, Canadian, Chinese.

Starting point is 00:25:55 So they're redefining the role in what it means to be human and horse, but in the process, they're strengthening the bond we've always had with this very special animal. What a story. And like I said, in the beginning, I'm not a big horse guy, so I don't think a lot about horses, but to hear you tell that story, it's really incredible the impact they've had on all of us. I've been speaking with Timothy Weingard. He is author of the book, The Horse, a galloping history of humanity. And if you'd like to read the book, you can get it at Amazon, and we have a link to it in the show notes. Appreciate you coming by. Thanks, Timothy. All right. I appreciate you having me on,

Starting point is 00:26:37 and thank you so much. New from Nespresso. Blend wellness into your coffee routine with The coffee plus range, infused with functional benefits. Choose the coffee you love with added B vitamins, like coffee plus B12 to help support immune function, and coffee plus B6 to keep your day moving. Or go with the flow and choose ginseng delight. Our new double espresso with ginseng extract. Whatever lies ahead, don't change your morning. Let your morning change you.

Starting point is 00:27:06 Discover coffee plus on espresso.com. From morning hockey with a cup of coffee to timbits and road trips. Tim's and Canadian Tire have always gone together. Now it's official. You can now earn Canadian Tire money at Tim's. Link your Triangle Rewards and Tim's Rewards accounts to earn twice with every Tim's run. Terms and conditions apply.

Starting point is 00:27:25 Visit timhordens.ca. slash triangle for details. If I told you I thought you were lazy, you probably wouldn't take that as a compliment. Someone who is lazy is considered uninterested, disengaged, not willing to work very hard. Nothing about lazy is considered good by most of us, but is that fair?

Starting point is 00:27:50 Could being lazy actually be a better way to do things, at least some of the time? Well, that's what Todd McElroy is here to explore. Todd is a researcher, educator, and author, and the name of his book is The Science of Laisiness, achieving more by doing less. Hi, Todd, thanks for being here. Hi, thank you for having me, Mike.

Starting point is 00:28:11 I have a definition in my head of laziness, which I doubt is the same definition you have for laziness. So how do you define it? What is laziness to you? In the way that we define it, laziness is actually an adaptive trait, wherein we purposely decide not to engage in these cognitive effortfulness and these physical activities that conjoined with it. And what we intend to do instead is to take a step back and remove ourselves from physical and mental activity and give ourselves some space just to reflect and to be mindful. So that's maybe a different way of looking at laziness than some people think of it, but it's very different than just simply being physically inactive. So strategic laziness, this is what you talk about.

Starting point is 00:29:08 And, you know, it sounds like such an oxymoron. How can you be strategic if you're being lazy? So explain what you sort of just did, but take it a little bit further. It's really about achieving more in your life and the things that you're doing in your world by actually doing less. So it's based upon the psychological literature. And if you think about it just in a moment, we hear people a lot saying that they're dual processing, you know, oh, I can do two things at once. I can do three things at once.

Starting point is 00:29:49 And a lot of people say that. And, you know, when I was younger, I believed that as well, right? I can sit here and I can type and I can also, you know, watch something else on the monitor. But the truth is we know from, you know, an enormous amount of research that that, That simply just doesn't occur. It's just impossible for humans to dual process things. We can't do more than one thing at a time. And so what we find in our modern world is that we're trying to do so many different things.

Starting point is 00:30:23 You know, we're trying to text on the phone. We're trying to work on a computer. You know, we got somebody asking us a question. We're trying to do these different things. But if you just look at the long term, we actually just aren't able to get all these things done. And in the end, we get much less done in each item than we would if we just simply focused our attention on one specific thing.

Starting point is 00:30:52 So it's strategic laziness. We're removing things. We're being very lazy with most of the things in our life. And we're really focusing on specific things. When we have to eliminate something so that we can be very good at other, one specific thing. To which many people would say, yeah, but that's going to have a lot of consequences because they think by doing what they consider a lot of things at the same time or doing things quickly that if you stop doing that, things don't get done and then there are consequences to that. And I don't disagree with that. You know, this is about a lifestyle.

Starting point is 00:31:32 This is about adopting a way of living that leads to more productivity in the long run. To be honest with you, the world is changing. It's no secret about AI technology is just increasing at an incredible rate. You know, the changes that we've seen in just the last few years are just almost beyond measure. And so we're going to have a different world in front of us in the next few years. And we are going to be able to implement. these things. I know you're, you know, as you're telling your listeners, you know, some things aren't going to get done. But just imagine the things that in our lives that we can outsource.

Starting point is 00:32:13 You know, we can remove these things from our to-do list, if you will, because of AI and because of all the automation. And then we can focus on those things that aren't really work to us. But, you know, it's work, but it's it's pleasure. It's what gives us that means. meaning in our life. So that's, you know, that's sort of my retort is that the world is changing, and now is the time that we can make these changes in our life. Well, it almost sounds like what you're saying is, you know, slow down, you know, just wait, you know, stop the pace or slow the pace and just deal with things in a slower way, in a more deliberate way, rather than trying to be frantically juggling 65 things.

Starting point is 00:33:00 Absolutely. Focus on that one thing that gives you pleasure that makes your life, you know, meaningful. And that's where you'll find success. I think we all, you know, can relate to that. You find success in things that bring you joy. So slow down, back up, and find what is it that gives you meaning and purpose in life? And, you know, we're at a turning point in history where I truly believe that we can now do this. It almost seems like using the word lazy gets in the way here because people have a preconceived notion of what laziness is. And it isn't doing one thing. It isn't doing less and focusing on one thing. It's doing nothing. It's sitting under a tree, not caring about anything. And that's my idea of laziness. So the term lazy actually has a pretty interesting history.

Starting point is 00:33:58 it comes from our puritanical work ethic that we've sort of evolved with in the last century. So being lazy became a very bad trait. It wasn't always seen as a bad trait, but it first started out as being sinful, and then that carried over into just being someone who was lazy, became like a negative sort of bad person. This was a bad thing. But actually, that hasn't always been such a bad thing. You know, if you look at some of our greatest scientists, you know, I think that you could argue that Einstein was quite lazy, actually.

Starting point is 00:34:40 And, you know, Renee Descartes, you know, my goodness, the guy, you know, would spend half the day in bed just being lazy. And but they weren't being lazy, you know, they were reflecting and they were giving themselves time to their brain to process. perhaps these higher order questions that, you know, just seemed impossible to get at. And so, yes, in all appearances, they were being lazy in the sense that they were just sitting around and not doing anything. But in truth, their brains were working and they were reflecting and they actually, you know, well, their creativity is, you know, obvious. Well, it's interesting, too, when you think about it. Very oftentimes when you're not busy, when you are being, quote, lazy,

Starting point is 00:35:35 that's when a lot of great ideas pop up and, you know, interesting things come to mind. And, ooh, here's an idea I hadn't thought of before because you're not so focused on getting tasks done as you are. Your mind is just kind of wandering around and could come up with something pretty interesting. Exactly. And there's a lot of research to really support that. We don't, obviously, we don't understand specifics of how our brain works or how our mind works, especially. So, for example, research shows that we had a, if you have a group of people trying to generate these creative ideas, and one group will sit in the lab and try to work on these particular types of cognitive tasks. and you have another group just go out and walk, and their only goal is specifically to walk and not think about anything, then the group that goes out and walks and doesn't think about anything

Starting point is 00:36:36 has significantly more creative ideas when they bring them back into the lab than the group that was working on these cognitive tasks. So, you know, it's something that unique that happens in our minds, in our brain, and so it's these, moments of reflection, these times in which we're not doing anything particular that's effortful, that frees up our mind and, you know, our soul, if you will, to come up with these new and invigorating things that really are steps forward, you know. And I think that that's what's

Starting point is 00:37:15 important about being human is taking advantage of that. And now we can. We can take those extended walks. We can say, I'm just going to have a day in which I don't worry about the stresses of my work. I'm not going to worry about whether or not I met that deadline. You know, I'm just going to set aside some time and reflect and not have a particular goal in mind necessarily, but I've got something that I'm working on. And I think that, you know, Mike, we've all heard about how I'll sleep on it, right? We've got something that we're working on. And that's true. That really is. true if you have something in mind and you're looking for a new sort of idea and you put it in your mind so to speak before you go to sleep your brain is actually pretty good at coming up with

Starting point is 00:38:06 innovative ideas that way and I think the the same rule should apply to you know just doing nothing just sort of being lazy not having a particular goal but you know having this thought in your mind that I'm going to work on this creative problem, but, you know, I'm just going to give myself space and I'm not going to stress over it. Well, that's great if you can do it. If you're maybe an entrepreneur or a freelancer, but if you work for an organization and you're expected to be at work and working, I don't know too many organizations that will let you not care about that missed deadline or will let you just, yeah, go take the afternoon off and go think about stuff and see what comes up.

Starting point is 00:38:51 And I don't know too many organizations that will let you do that. Some have. Certainly Google has. And, you know, a few companies have. And they've got, they have had very promising outcomes. And so, but I think it takes dedication and a part of leadership. They, they've really, you know, got to accept that, you know, this particular act of not doing anything and actually stepping. away from work is actually beneficial. And I know it seems completely counterintuitive. And I get it.

Starting point is 00:39:29 I'm a scientist, you know, I've spent, you know, decades staying busy. But I've also learned from this research that I've done that, you know, that's not necessarily. And in fact, for me personally, when I've applied it to my own life, I'm actually far more productive when I just simply, eliminate most things and just focus on one or two specific things, I am a lot more productive. And there's, you know, there's no question in my mind that I have not only more quantity in terms of my productivity, I have better quality. And, you know, that's important to me. But, you know, Again, I can also understand how someone could see that as counterproductive because, you know, maybe you would feel like I'm not doing my job if I have my employees just sitting around not doing anything,

Starting point is 00:40:28 you know. And, but the truth is we want to look at outcomes. We want to look at, you know, shorter long-term outcomes. And if you focus on that, then I, there's good evidence to, uh, support that this type of strategy does lead to better productivity. But at least today, for many organizations, instead of focusing on outcomes, the focus is on being busy, looking busy, staying busy, being busy because there is some value, perceived value, in seeing people being busy. But back to being lazy, you can't be lazy all the time.

Starting point is 00:41:12 So what's the equation here? What's the formula for how much time do you spend being lazy and then how much time do you spend being busy? Great question. My response is going to be, you know, it varies as does any other individual difference trait. For some people, you know, it might be 80 percent and other people it might truly be 20 percent. And it really depends upon your trade, you know, what it is. that you're, you know, your profession, so to speak, I think that would depend, be something that we would want to look at as well. So if you're a scientist, then I would argue the amount of

Starting point is 00:41:57 time that you're lazy should be quite high. If you're, if you're someone who's working at a facility to develop some type of new research design, then I think that you should spend a great deal of time being lazy. And that's not to say you're not working, but you're reflecting. And you know, you're giving yourself that space that's necessary to make those big steps, you know, to really push the boundaries. And you can't push the boundaries if you're doing 17 other things and trying to respond to text messages. You're just not going to push boundaries. You're not going to make that next big advancement. You know, that's just a fact.

Starting point is 00:42:43 But what about work that isn't so deep? You know, I'm a roofer. Do I really need to be lazy or do I need to put the roof on? Good question, good question. You still want to search for that meaning and purpose in life. And I suspect that you might want to spend less time being lazy. Because if that's what brings you joy, and that's what gives you a sense of fulfillment and purpose in life, is that particular work where you don't really need

Starting point is 00:43:13 to be innovative, then maybe, you know, you need to spend less time being lazy. Is there ever a time, was there ever a time in recent U.S. or world history where what you're proposing was more the rule than the exception? I would say actually, especially U.S. history and certainly since the modern industrial age, that, you know, lazy time was just not something people engaged in, at least not that they would let people know, because it had such a negative connotation, you know, attached to it. But again, our world is changing, you know, and as we more and more of our time is going to be freed up, we will experience a change in society. And I think that we're at this turning point that we can implement this and we can use these methods,

Starting point is 00:44:12 which science has shown us that can increase our insight, our creativity and innovation, in ways that could lead to major, you know, changes and all for the better of civilization. Well, listening to what you say, it just feels like it makes sense, and then you've got the research to support the fact that it does make sense, that slowing down, focusing on one thing, will actually end up doing more for you than trying to get a million things done. I've been speaking with Todd McElroy. He is a researcher, educator, and author,

Starting point is 00:44:51 and the title of his book is The Science of Laisiness, Achieving More by Doing Less. You'd like to read it. There is a link to that book at Amazon in the show notes. Thank you for explaining all this, Todd. Great. Thank you. In the summertime, we sure come to appreciate air conditioning. But there's evidence to show that air conditioning could be contributing to the growing obesity epidemic. And here's how.

Starting point is 00:45:21 When you're exposed to uncomfortably hot or cold temperatures, your body has to work harder and burn more. calories to regulate your core temperature. Air conditioning keeps us comfortable so our body doesn't have to work as hard so it doesn't burn those extra calories. When we're cooler, we eat more. Animal and human studies have confirmed that our appetites increase when we're in a comfortably cool environment. One study showed that people tend to opt for lower calorie foods later in the summer when the temperatures are higher. People who spend time outdoors are more active and have fewer weight issues than those who sit inside. Back in the 1960s, when AC was only in about 12% of homes, people headed outside to cool down. Whether it was to play

Starting point is 00:46:10 in the sprinklers or meet with friends or go to the park, today when we're hot, we're less likely to go out, rather we stay inside. So relying less on the AC will not only save you energy and money, it might also appear to help keep the weight off. And that is something you should know. If you enjoyed this episode of something you should know, you know, there are hundreds, literally hundreds of other episodes in our archives, which are easy for you to access. I know you would enjoy them.

Starting point is 00:46:42 And they're right here on the same platform you're listening to this episode on. I'm Mikeerruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know.

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