Something You Should Know - How Scarcity Influences What You Buy & How Social Media Clouds Your Perception

Episode Date: November 28, 2022

Your doctor is supposed to wash his or her hands between patients. But sometimes doctors forget. Would you speak up if you saw that and ask your doctor to wash up? This episode begins with a look at this important problem. https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-hospitals-want-patients-to-ask-doctors-8216have-you-washed-your-hands8217-1380582268   Scarcity is powerful. It is the force that drives people to stock up on toilet paper before a storm or to buy something they might not buy because it is on sale for 2 days only. When something is hard to get it becomes more desirable. Sometimes things really are scarce but sometimes it may just be manipulation. Here to discuss how marketers use scarcity and why it works so well is Mindy Weinstein a marketing instructor at Grand Canyon University and the University of Denver, as well as a program leader for The Wharton School and Columbia Business School. Mindy is also author of the book THE POWER OF SCARCITY: Leveraging Urgency and Demand to Influence Customer Decisions (https://amzn.to/3tGrIpE) If you spend a lot of time on social media, it can become a lens through which you see the world. It takes on an importance that is a little proportion and it can become addicting. That is exactly what happened to Dr. Brian Boxer Wachler, MD and author the book Influenced: The Impact of Social Media on Our Perception. (https://amzn.to/3EnuzsM). Listen as Brian tells his personal story of social media addiction and discusses what happens in your brain each time you click “Like”. It is an important story for anyone who worries they may be spending a little too much time on social media or have kids who may be doing the same. What will happen to your pets if you die before they do? You might think you know but listen as I explain what you need to do to make sure your wishes are followed – and it is not just about putting it in your will. http://pettrustlawyer.squarespace.com/ PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Now get a complimentary bottle of Nugenix Total T when you text SYSK to 231 -231.  Tune in to Planet Money every week for entertaining stories and insights about how money shapes our world! Listen now to Planet Money from NPR -- wherever you get your podcasts. When you hire with Indeed you only pay for quality applications that match your must-have job requirements. Visit https://Indeed.com/SOMETHING to start hiring now! With Shopify, everything you need to customize your business to your needs is already in your hands. Sign up for a FREE trial at https://Shopify.com/sysk ! Constant Wonder is a podcast that will bring more wonder and awe to your day. Listen to Constant Wonder wherever you get your podcasts! https://www.byuradio.org/constantwonder Did you know you could reduce the number of unwanted calls & emails with Online Privacy Protection from Discover? - And it's FREE! Just activate it in the Discover App. See terms & learn more at https://Discover.com/Online Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Download June's Journey now on Android or iOS. Today on Something You Should Know, why you should ask your doctor to wash his hands and why you probably won't. Then the power of scarcity. It's a strong and primal force that clouds our decision making. And that's something that we've seen through brain scans, that when faced with something that's scarce, our brains skip the normal process of decision making and just go straight to decision.

Running out, it's hard to get. I want that. Also, what would happen to your pet if you die first? And hear one doctor's incredible story of what too much social media can do to you. And a lot of us are on social media way too much. The sobering statistic is that about 21% of adults admit to being addicted to social media. This is not really a teen situation. It's definitely more pervasive than people think. All this today on Something You Should Know.

This winter, take a trip to Tampa on Porter Airlines. Enjoy the warm Tampa Bay temperatures and warm Porter hospitality on your way there. All Porter fares include beer, wine, and snacks, and free fast-streaming Wi-Fi on planes with no middle seats. And your Tampa Bay vacation includes good times, relaxation, and great Gulf Coast weather. Visit flyporter.com and actually enjoy economy. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical

advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome to Something You Should Know. I was just reading about how there are a lot of bugs going around, upper respiratory illnesses, and people are getting sick this winter. And what's interesting is one of the very best ways to prevent the spread of these kinds of illnesses is for doctors to wash their hands. Well, for everybody to wash their hands. But in a medical setting, having doctors and nurses wash their hands will help stop the spread of disease. Still, in a study published in the journal Infection Control and Hospital Epidemiology, one-third of patients surveyed said that they observed their doctors

failing to wash their hands. But here's the thing. Nearly two-thirds of those patients said nothing to their doctor. Most people believe it's not their role or they feel embarrassed or awkward or they worry about reprisals if they ask the doctor to wash his hands. But doctors and nurses sometimes just forget. But according to experts, hand-washing is so important

and most people will not be upset if you ask them to please wash their hands. And that is something you should know. One interesting way consumers, you, me, everyone, gets manipulated is through something called scarcity. It's ingrained in us. When we think something is in short supply, it triggers and influences our decision making. In fact, when it comes to being influenced, scarcity is arguably one of the most powerful forces, invoking a kind of primal instinct, an instinct that was essential to our ancestor's survival, but not so much today. It is the explanation for why when there's an approaching storm, people stock up on milk and

toilet paper, because something tells them that these things could become scarce, even though they rarely do. One of the leading authorities on scarcity is Mindy Weinstein. Mindy's a marketing instructor at Grand Canyon University and the University of Denver, as well as a program leader for the Wharton School and Columbia Business School. Hi, Mindy. Welcome to Something You Should Know. Thank you for having me. So briefly explain what is scarcity as it applies to the way we think and make decisions? To put it simply, scarcity is some type of unavailability. And when you think about it, it's just a restriction of some type. And there can be a lot of different causes of that restriction, but it is something that

is unavailable, or it could even just be something that's hard to get. And I think everybody has a sense of what that's like when you go on Amazon and it says, hurry, only two left in stock, or sale ends Monday, that that's kind of scarcity. And I think people have a sense that it may be baloney too, that if you really wanted to find, they could find another one to sell you. And if you really came in on Tuesday, they'd probably match the price. And yet people pay attention to that. They absolutely do. And I'm just going to tell you a little bit more and expand on scarcity. So, I mean, I gave you the simple definition because that's truly what it is, but there are really four different types of scarcity. And what's so interesting about it is that each one tends to have a different effect on us. And so I'll just go through them if you don't mind just telling you a bit about them.

Sure. But we have demand-related scarcity and that is popularity. So something that's popular, it's harder to get because of that. That's where we get the best sellers or the waitlist, or you're trying to get into that new restaurant that everyone else is going to, but it's very difficult. That's demand-related scarcity. But then there's supply-related scarcity. And that could be intentional. So a lot of big brands will do drops where it's very limited and they're restricting the supply, or it could be because of some type of supply shortage. Like I know that the PlayStation 5 is something that's a supply-related scarce item, and that's just because of the distribution and chip shortage is what I think I read last.

But then there's also time-related. And time-related is some type of limitation on the amount of time that you have. And that could be something like a flash sale, or if you've ever been on a website and you see the countdown timer, that feeling that you have that you start to get anxious, that is time-related scarcity because now you're competing against the clock. And then finally, there's limited edition, which is really part of supply-related scarcity. But with limited edition, it's different in that supply-related scarcity. But with limited edition, it's different in that it could be the same product, just a different packaging or just

a slightly different twist, but it's also still scarcity. And all of those areas and all those things I talked about, they have different effects on us. And that's part of why I wanted to study scarcity. My dissertation, believe it or not, was on the power of scarcity. And that's part of why I wanted to study scarcity. My dissertation, believe it or not, was on the power of scarcity. And that's just really what catapulted this whole thing because I realized how complex it really was. And so what is the effect that people have? Why is it that we pay attention to that? Why does something become more desirable when it's harder to get? That is what is so surprising. So during my studies and even through some testing that I've done, there is a reaction to when something is unavailable to us. And that actually dates back to early mankind when people were trying

to survive and there were scarce resources, our brains are hardwired and they're still hardwired to overcome any type of scarcity. So something is all of a sudden we can't get it or it's a little bit harder for us to, then our brain kicks into high gear. And so you can see that when you observe people and their behavior, but is there a way to tell like what's going on inside of a person that causes them to act the way they do when they suspect scarcity is upon them? The things that I'm about to tell you, they've actually been seen in brain scans, which is hard to argue with that because you can actually see the brain activity. But when faced with a scarce, let's say,

product you're trying to buy, and it's an auction, because there was actually a study done that did an auction simulation, and participants were hooked up to MRIs. And the researchers could actually see that when they were faced with a product that they could bid on that was scarce, the part of their brain that's in charge of the valuation process had all types of activity, meaning that what happened in the brain just automatically is, okay, this item is a little bit more difficult to get. There's not as many of them or it's running out. I'm going to value that higher. And we do that. And the other thing too, I mean, because really it's so multi-layered, is that when we

are faced with this situation of scarcity, let's say if it's something that is popular. The example I like to give is going to the grocery store and you're buying a product you haven't bought before and you're looking at the different brands, you're not really sure what to get, but then there's one brand that there's only one box left, let's say. You're going to go for that one because your brain's going to take a mental shortcut. And that's also something that we've seen through brain scans that when faced with something that's scarce, our brains kick into gear again. And they also skip the normal process of decision-making and just go straight to decision.

Running out, it's hard to get. I want that. So it's just amazing at just how powerful it really is. And to me, I mean, when I started studying scarcity, originally, I was looking more at just what influences us and the factors. And then when I started digging into that, I realized that out of all of them, scarcity is the one that is so innate in us and so strong. Don't you think that when people hear, when most of us hear these claims, these scarcity claims, only four days left, limit five, hurry, time is running out kind of claims, that it's a tactic. Some retailer is trying to manipulate you to buy and prey upon this scarcity response that happens in all of us when we hear these claims. So my question is, does knowing, does being very conscious of the fact that this is a tactic, does that help mitigate the power of these scarcity claims?

Because you know, they're just saying that. It does help. You'll still find yourselves in situations where you're going to have to stop and say, okay, what's really going on here? And I'll be completely candid with you. I am a researcher. I have my PhD in general psychology. I'm a marketer.

I'm a marketing instructor. So I come from this background where I understand all of this. But as a consumer, I still get caught up in it. If I find that there's a product that interests me and I see that it keeps selling out, oh, you better believe that that pull and that desire to purchase it is there. It's strong. And so it doesn't mean though that all of this is something you can't overcome. And I think that's really important to think about. So knowing that this happens, you can just stop. And that's usually what I like to think about is like, stop.

You're about to make an impulse purchase. Ask yourself, why are you purchasing this? Is it because you think that it's something that's not going to be available that day, the next day, you're fearful that you're going to miss out. But if you just pause and think about why am I truly purchasing this and wait, I mean, wait a day, it sounds really simple. But the next day, if you feel like you still want to buy that, and it's still available, purchase it. There's also been studies done that show that that feeling that we have of the fear of loss or the thought that we might regret our actions or inaction in this case, it goes away. It doesn't last that long. So you just have to remember that. And I think it's just a reminder. So as a consumer, going back to being candid, I have to remind myself of that, of am I really

filling my shopping cart online on this website because I wanted all these things? Or is it because I just got a text message saying that I had exclusive access to a sale? So you just, again, pausing is the best thing. Pausing is the best thing. I think that's the big takeaway here when it comes to scarcity. Mindy Weinstein is my guest. She is author of a book called The Power of Scarcity. Metrolinks and Crosslinks are reminding everyone to be careful

as Eglinton Crosstown LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert as trains can pass at any time on the tracks. Remember to follow all traffic signals. Be careful along our tracks and only make left turns where it's safe to do so. Be alert, be aware, and stay safe. This episode is brought to you by Melissa and Doug.

Wooden puzzles and building toys for problem solving and arts and crafts for creative thinking, Melissa and Doug makes toys that help kids take on the world because the way they play today shapes who they become tomorrow. Melissa and Doug, the play is pretend, the skills are real. Look for Melissa and Doug wherever you shop for toys. So Mindy, one of the things I've never really understood because I've never been part of the phenomenon, and I think it's part of this whole conversation about scarcity, is when a movie first comes out and people line up like the night before, and I'm thinking, why? In two weeks, you could walk into that theater, it'll be half half empty and it's the same movie why would you

want to be the first to see it is that kind of part of this a hundred percent so here is what again is just it looks stepping back okay look when you look at scarcity how i said it's multi-layered and the situation you just described that still is a bit of, I mean, there's high demand there too, but people want to be the first ones. And so the different types of scarcity that exist out there, they speak to different people. And so that was high demand that I talked about, but it's a bit of a supply too, because there's only so many movie seats in the theater that you could go to and sit. But what happens when it's something like that is that people want to be unique. And so that's

a huge draw. So anything that's supply related or even limited edition, that speaks to people who have a desire for uniqueness. They want self-expression. So going to that movie theater, they're going to take pictures before they go in, post them on social because they feel special because they got to be there before everyone else. The same thing when you think about the latest iPhone that's coming out and people will wait in line for that. It's the same idea. It's that being one of those first movers, the first to see it, the first to buy it, it sets you apart. Yeah. And well, and maybe the flip side of that is, you know, when like a Broadway show announces that it's closing and then the ticket sales go up, way up for, because now it's going to be,

now it's closing, it's going to be gone. Well, those people could have gone to see it six months ago and probably got better seats, but now that they know it's closing, all of a sudden it becomes more desirable. Exactly. It's that fear of missing out. And you saying that is making me think about the McDonald's McRib. I actually interviewed the former VP of global marketing for McDonald's. He was with the company for 40 years. And so they're a great example of using scarcity, but they take the approach of making it fun and adding excitement. And so the McRib, that's been something that has been in and out in terms of being offered and available. And you never know what location it's going to be at. They've done farewell tours in the past.

And currently, they've released it, but it's the farewell tour again. And so you kind of see things like that. And there's mass chaos to buy it. I actually even saw someone was selling a McRib sandwich on eBay for $5,000. I'm a little confused. Yeah, I'm a little confused because I don't know, like, do you just display it? Like it's a museum or do you eat it? No, I can't tell you they got $5,000, but I actually kind of laughed and I looked at the listing for it too. Cause it's like your last chance ever to get your McRib sandwich. This is going to be gone for good.

I thought, look at you putting some scarcity into it. So, but it does create some excitement at the same time, but it's, it's FOMO. It's FOMO with the example you gave with Broadway and then even with the McRib. You see that? I don't get that because, come on, we know the McRib will be back. It has to come back. I mean, it's, it's not like it's hard to bring it back. They do it all the time. So why would people actually believe that the McRib Farewell Tour is really the McRib Farewell Tour? I mean, you know, the same thing happens at Taco Bell with their nacho fries. And I just finally got tired. You know, I'm tired of going to Taco Bell and seeing they don't have them.

So I just don't go to Taco Bell anymore because you kind of like want them and they're not there. So it doesn't work on me or that one doesn't work on me because I've kind of resigned myself that I can live my life without nacho fries. Yeah, I mean, and that's, you know, talking about scarcity. It's not that all of this is going to appeal to every person. You know, we're all different. So you talk about the nacho fries, but someone else might still keep going back because they're wondering when they're going to be there. And as soon as they know they're back, they're going to continue to go buy them. We're just all different in the things that we are going to draw us in.

So you mentioned the McRib. What are some other examples that we might know of marketers using scarcity on us? Black Friday is like scarcity supreme with that. Because what happens with Black Friday is that, you know, the different stores, big box retailers, they're going to have a limited supply on purpose of certain items. And so they draw you in, you know, you get excited. There's also all these people, there's excitement, there's all these things going on. That's a huge one. But some of the other big ones, and I'm going to tell you some of the more recent ones too, like the Ford Bronco, they came out with their latest and greatest and sold out right away. People had to register to be on a wait list. And then now

they're being told that it's probably going to be two more years before they even get their vehicle. So those wait lists, anytime you see something like that, a wait list actually is scarcity because that signals high demand and it's going to cause you to not want to miss out. You want to be part of the group. You want to see what all the fuss is about. I'm thinking about some other ones. And this one might not be as well known, but if you look it up online, you're going to be blown away. But there's this cup. It's actually a 40-ounce tumbler. It's the Stanley Quencher. And it's been like the internet sensation. So if you look up Stanley Quencher 40 ounce cup, first of all, you're going to see it sold out. That's the first thing.

But what was interesting about that, it was actually a product that was discontinued years ago. And a group of bloggers really petitioned Stanley to come back with it because they liked it. And so they were able to have 5,000 units that they were able to get their hands on the bloggers and they sold them to their following and they were sold out like right away. Well, now fast forward to today is Stanley is releasing these, but they just can't keep up. And so you see all these people talking about it on social media, on TikTok, there was a hashtag related to the Stanley Quencher. And I believe it had, oh my gosh, it was in the millions of usage, like on the hashtag related to the Stanley Quencher. And I believe it had... Oh my gosh. It was in the millions of usage on the hashtag. It was insane. It made it into major publications.

Everyone was trying to get their hands on it. So then of course, that opened up this big market on eBay for them too. And so with that one, even though it's not a ploy... And that's why I'm also giving you that example too, is that sometimes scarcity just happens naturally. And we see that with supply shortages. But when that happens, we still need to think to ourselves, okay, do I really need a 40-ounce tumbler? Is that something I really need? Because just because it's something that's selling out, again, doesn't mean you need it or have to get it. So just things to remember. So there's lots of different examples, but I wanted to, like I said, mention the ones that weren't even necessarily marketing ploys.

It's just things that happen. Is it usually just things that happen or is it usually a marketing ploy? It's both. I mean, it can be both. And so, of course, time-related scarcity. So like I said, those are your sales of flash sales, coupons, countdown timers, those type of things. I mean, that's, of course, intentional because there's a specific time limit. And that's okay. Because with that, I mean, you are building brand awareness. And so companies do that. And I

think as consumers, we're okay with that. We're used to them. If it's a trustworthy brand and you bought from them before, most likely it is above board. Because it can also be helpful with scarcity. If we want to buy something like on Amazon and you know that there's only one left, okay. Yeah, I mean, that's definitely trying to get some urgency. But if you really want that and you need that, you're going to buy it right now.

But if it's something your company you're not as familiar with, like go do your research first to see if it's just them doing those tactics or whether it is truly something that's scarce and they're really just trying to inform you. One of the times that I'm very suspicious of it is when you try to book an airline flight and it'll say only four seats left. And you, and if, if you really need that flight, that really gets your attention because if you don't book it now, you there it's only four seats left, they'll be gone. And then you won't get to go see grandma for Christmas. If it's real, it's real, but I'm just, I just wonder if it's real. I hear you. But a lot of those, you know, with airlines, it's real. I hear you.

But a lot of those with airlines, it is real. I also look at it as, again, if it's a brand you know, a company you trust, an airline you've been buying from, they also do inform you with that at the same time. And yes, they're trying to get you to buy now. There's no doubt in my mind. But at the same time, they're not just making that up either. And in my book, I have an interview with Kevin Harrington. So he was one of the original Shark Tank investors, and then also very involved in QVC and Home

Shopping Network. And we were even talking about how QVC, if you've ever watched that, it'll say how many items are left. And it's definitely that sense of urgency. But the way he was talking about it, he said many items are left. And it's definitely that sense of urgency, but the way he was talking about it, he said, it is true. Like what, what we're saying when you're looking at that product and you're watching how many are going down being bought, it's all accurate. He said, we only buy a certain supply, but they're informing their viewers that are watching of like,

okay, yes, you know, five left, you know, two left, oh, we're sold out. So at the same time, you don't, even though we're skeptical, there is a lot of truth to that. Again, it just goes back to, do you really need it? In a case of an airline ticket, you probably do. Like you said, if you're wanting to go home and see grandma, if you're watching something on QVC, I don't know, just depends what it is. Well, it's really amazing the power that scarcity has over us. And as you say, it appears to be like this primal instinct. And it's really, I think, important for people to understand. Mindy Weinstein's been my guest. She is a marketing instructor at the University of Denver and Grand Canyon University, as well as a program leader at the Wharton School and Columbia Business School.

And the name of the book is The Power of Scarcity, Leveraging Urgency and Demand to Influence Customers' Decisions. And there is a link to that book in the show notes. Thank you, Mindy. Thanks, Mike. This has been so fun. I really appreciate you having me. This is an ad for betterHelp. Welcome to the world. Please read your personal owner's manual thoroughly. In it, you'll find simple instructions for how to interact with your fellow human beings and how to find happiness and peace of mind. Thank you and have a nice life.

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Then sit back and let your matches start the chat. Download Bumble and try it for yourself. It's pretty clear that our preoccupation with social media and its influencers is having a strong impact on how we think, feel, and perceive everything around us. In some ways, social media becomes a lens through which we see the world. And what's a bit scary is that you might not even be aware of its effect. You may think you're immune to it, but you're probably not. You are about to hear a story about a doctor who is also one of the leading authorities on human perception.

He was sucked into the world of social media and his life completely changed. And it can happen to you too. Whether you're an influencer on social media or you follow other influencers, this is an important discussion I think you'll want to hear. Dr. Brian Boxer-Wachler is an MD and popular influencer on TikTok with over 3 million followers, and he is the author of a book called Influenced,

The Impact of Social Media on Our Perception. Hi, Brian. It's a pleasure to be here, Mike. So tell the story of how you got pulled into the world of being an influencer and how it affected you, and not for the better. Basically, it really started, my story is that when we started with the pandemic, I had a lot of unaccustomed time on my hands. And at the time, my daughters were 14 and they said, Dad, there's some really good doctors on TikTok. And if you're interested, we can help get you started. And so I found my niche pretty quickly as a doctor calling out health-related videos that had gone viral with hundreds of thousands or even millions of views, but the information

in them was not accurate. So people were relying on faulty information and I was calling out those videos. And that's where my following really started to explode and eventually getting me into the you know several million follower range and becoming known as one of the people to go to for the community in social media in general for these health videos but where things took a deep turn was when I got so involved and all essentially addicted to social media because of that rush of dopamine when you have videos going viral one after the other. And people are wanting you, they're commenting for you to comment. And it's just this huge rush of being a sort of virtual celebrity.

It's dopamine that's getting stimulated in our brain. And so even though I'm a doctor, this problem affected me. And ultimately, I was able to get through it with the help of my family. But I learned and realized that if it could affect me, it could affect you too, or affect anybody. So what is this effect what is it and it's not just people who who have a following but i assume this relates to people who are just the ones who follow absolutely yeah that's most people who are followers and users and every time you scroll up on a video what's happening is you're getting a little bit of that dopamine and you get more for some videos and less for others. But it's like you're pulling a slot machine lever and you just don't know the next one. Is it going to be a really good one that makes you feel good

and entertains you or you learn something? And that's stimulating dopamine. And so it's the unpredictable nature of the scrolling of the videos, which is why they are so addictive and also why gambling is so addictive too, because of the same unpredictable component. So yes, this is a bigger issue than people realize. And it's not just a teen or child issue with becoming addicted. And addicted means what? Because addiction to gambling has a price. It's a monetary price. Addiction to watching TikTok videos. I mean, I watch TikTok videos, and I'm a sucker for, you know,

because they can be so satisfying at some level. But it's not costing me much, and I can stop, typically, stop pretty easily. So there's a difference between watching social media and losing money at the gambling table. And Mike, the hallmark of addiction is that it's interfering with some aspect of your life. So for social media, in my case, what was happening is I would come home and my daughters would be telling me about their day. And as teenagers, wanting to do that with parents is already a rarity, right? But I'm on my device. I'm so engrossed with refreshing my screen, for example, seeing how many more views I got on the video I just posted, responding to people's comments, looking at videos that I'm getting tagged to look at to see if that's a video that is going to be one that I'm going to react to or comment on.

So it becomes so engrossing that I was actually ignoring essentially my kids and that was damaging the relationship I had with them. And that also spilled over to my wife as well in our relationship because I became so engrossed. I was missing out on a lot of family experiences because of my involvement in social media to the point one time at their volleyball game, I snuck out to go do a tiktok live in the car and brought my scrubs i have a certain look i have on social media i've got my scrub top my hat and my mask around my neck and i planned to do this i popped out missing their volleyball game and actually got caught because during lunch their friends said said, you know, your dad's doing a TikTok live right now. And they're like, oh, that's why he's not at the game.

So I was missing out on a lot of family experiences. So it wasn't a monetary cost, but it was a relationship cost. That's one of the hallmarks of social media addiction is people forget and lose sight of the real relationships, which are ultimately the most important in people's lives. But that's you. I mean, that's a struggle that you deal with, but that's a pretty broad brush to paint everybody else with. Well, that's when people get addicted, right? So lots of people, like you just said yourself, that you can just turn it off when you want. So that this is an issue and social media is just going to continue to grow. So it's not going away. It's not just videos though. I mean, what if, if I post something on a, on Facebook or whatever, it just, I do like to look and see, you know,

how many views did it get? How many likes did it get? But I don't post that much. And, you know, after a day or so, I don't check it anymore. I kind of forget about it. So, and that doesn't seem to me to be a problem, but I understand what you're saying that, that, but people who post all the time are always checking, you know, how many likes and all that. And other than sucking up half your day, what's the harm? I mean, if that's how you want to spend your day, what's the harm? Well, the harm potentially, like in my case, was I was not paying attention to the real most important people in my life, which is my family. And I wasn't present, right? Like I'm present, but I'm not really present a lot of times um and so that caused a lot of

stress and to the point that they actually one time um the three of them basically had a tick intervention with me uh to explain like i've been out of control and not paying attention and not being present as a father and a husband. And initially, I was not open to this. I actually resented it because I thought, well, you know, you, my daughters, were the ones that got me started. And here I have millions of followers. I have all this success. And now you're not being supportive. So again, when somebody is addicted to anything,

a hallmark typically is they don't have insight that they are having a problem. And so I was in denial and I thought, well, I'm just gonna double down my efforts and have even more success to show you. And then what happened once was one of my videos got taken down for a community guideline violation. And at that point on the platform none of my videos could go viral for about two weeks and so that really

forced me into a classic withdrawal situation which also is a Hallmark of addiction when you don't get what you're addicted to you go through withdrawals. So I had a lot of stress and anxiety and some mental health challenges during that period, but that was necessary because that allowed me to have the insight to, oh my gosh, what have I been doing with my family? I've been putting my virtual children ahead of my real children. And it gave me that realization of what I'd been doing. And actually, I felt really very guilty and remorseful and actually went to the bedroom and just cried. And they forgave me after I apologized. But now I have a very healthy relationship with social media and I'm still active. I'm still very active as an influencer, but I am existing with it in a much more healthy way now. And so do we have a sense, is there any sense of

like how many people fall into that category of having trouble with it versus people who are users of it, but can shut it off when they need to and live their lives the way they need to? Well, I think the sobering statistic is that about 21% of adults admit to being addicted to social media. So this is not really a teen situation. And there's not at this point any official diagnosis yet, but it's a real phenomenon. And it's definitely more pervasive than people think, especially in adults. And what about kids? In kids also. I was just visiting with a friend of mine who was from out of town with his teenage daughter. And she and he both admit she's addicted to TikTok, for example. So we were talking about some of these things that she can do and he as a parent can do because a lot of parents also

don't have the tools to even understand like where do you even start with your children to help modulate their behavior on social media. And the thing about children and teenagers is that their brains are still developing. So the prefrontal cortex, which is our higher level of functioning in our brain, that's not going to really fully saddle and cure, if you think of concrete curing, until about age 22 or 25. So they're really susceptible. And the research that I did really discusses what those brain changes are, and they're real. And the unsettling thing is, in 10 years from now, 20 years from now as adults, nobody knows what the impact is going to be in the future until we get that timeframe down the road and we can look back and see.

So there's almost like a very large social media experiment happening right now with teens and children for that reason. Well, it's hard to imagine preventing a kid from interacting with social media because all of their friends are. They would be so out of the loop if they were forbidden from participating. Well, there is a lot of pressure because friends are talking about the videos that they're watching and influencers that they're following. So there is a pressure and it makes it a lot of times challenging because remember, teens and children don't have the discipline,

the critical thinking skills developed to be able to modulate as successfully as adults. And even adults, as we discussed, aren't great at it either for a certain percentage of them. When you look back at your own experience though, can you see it for what it was? And why couldn't you see it at the time that i mean did you really what would you be thinking when you're in the car doing tiktok videos at your daughter's sports event how do you justify that to yourself i mean what's the thought process well at the time i want to be of service. That's the whole reason I actually started on the platforms is because I wanted to be of service to help people understand in a public service way,

which videos they can rely on and which ones they can't from a health point of view. So, and I'm also at the same point consumed by feeling the rush of that experience in being of service. Essentially, it's like being a celebrity in the virtual world. So that clearly overrides a lot of good decision-making, which I certainly take responsibility for. But there's people who get addicted to all types of things and you look at them and you're like, well, how could that have happened? But again, because of that feedback loop in the brain for wanting more and more and more of that dopamine and what comes with it, that's the underlying cause that drives what's happening in terms of, you know, my behavior and other people's behaviors. And, you know, fortunately, my family forgave me. And now I've, and that's what I developed too,

certain systems that people can employ as users, because most people are users, not influencers, so that they can keep it under control and not have it affect their job and not have it affect their relationships and not have it affect their school. not have it affect their relationships and not have it affect their school. If you go back a couple of generations, you would have heard parents talking about how their kids are addicted to television. They're always watching television. How is this different from that? That's an interesting thought, except the one difference is you don't carry a TV around with you all day long. Once you leave the room, you're not watching TV anymore. Whereas you go

out, you go out to dinner, you go out for some event, you're just hanging with friends or you're with family, your phone is with you all the time. So it's like in that analogy that you discussed, it's like, imagine if you could carry your TV with you, that's kind of the equivalent of what we have now. So it's, it's a bit different than the TV situation, which is why it's more, much more of a concern right now. And so when people, I mean, when you go out to dinner, people are always checking their phones. I don't know what they're checking. Maybe they're checking voicemails or texts or social media or whatever.

I mean, I sometimes will check to see if I've gotten an email or whatever. But I don't go, if I'm with other people, I don't go on social media to see what's going on there because I'm in a room where stuff is going on here. So when people do that, what is it that compels them to do that? Largely, it's FOMO, which is an acronym for fear of missing out. And that's a very big driver for why people go to their phone or they hear notifications go off the dinging or a vibration or the screen lights up even if it's on lock screen that there's a notification and it's like being like pavlov's dog right you get that notification you want to see what's happening and you go to the phone and you start checking so you know you have a good handle on it as you've

described but unfortunately more and more people don't have that handle anymore and it's really difficult to self-regulate which um you know is part of the research that i did you know in putting putting this together and so what's the advice here? What's the prescription to help resolve this, find a solution? you need to be aware of what the pitfalls are and then also understand what are some safeguards that you can even build in for yourself or for those around you. Well, so give me some strategies here because as you said, I mean, people wouldn't even know how to begin to get a handle on this problem. So help me specifically take some baby steps to get a handle on this problem. So help me specifically take some baby steps to get a handle on this problem. Like one tip is turn off the notifications on your phone because that's what's a big draw. So if you have everything on silent, then at least you've

eliminated the susceptibility to wanting to go pick up your phone. And then there's other things too that can stimulate dopamine in a more healthy way, like laughter, exercise, certain types of foods, certain types of aromatherapies and other activities that are dopamine releasing and make you feel good, but it's in a more healthy way. And you can also do that with other people and share in the experience. Yeah, well, it does. And listening to you, it just reinforces this idea that people have a sense that there's a problem here. I think that they know they spend a lot of time on social media and they probably shouldn't

and they probably feel a little guilty about it but they don't stop they don't and and they've got all the triggers like the notifications and everything else on that's going to make it even harder to stop it's like i know there's a problem but maybe it's maybe nobody will notice or maybe it won't matter or maybe every oh everybody else is doing it so it's okay for me particularly parents are just like they're out in the ocean without an oar and without anything to try to help get back to shore with kids because um parents aren't savvy like their kids are so so they don't really understand what they're doing. And because of that, they are at a real disadvantage, even though they want to help them. You know, they want them to not spend so much time that it interferes with school potentially

and other things. But there's no tool set that's being provided to them. So open up that tool set. I mean, turning off notifications is fine, but that's a pretty mild strategy. What else can people do to, particularly parents, do to tackle this? Well, one of them is, which is going to initially cause a lot of anxiety, is get on TikTok. If you're a parent, join it. Join the apps your kids are on. Because what research found is that when you are actually on the app and then discussing with your children some regulation techniques, if you have the experience, you have credibility and you're talking to them from a position of credibility versus a parent who's just like, oh, we're just going to close it down and stop cold turkey. That's going to breed a lot of resentment. So not to say that parents, you need to start creating content on the platforms, but you should join them. You should see who the influencers, your children are following. And therefore you can evaluate if that content is appropriate,

if those are good influencers, because not all influencers are good. Well, your story is a cautionary tale, because if social media can affect you the way it did, it can likely affect anybody. And this is really important for parents and really for anybody who uses social media to understand what can happen. I've been talking to Dr. Brian Boxer-Wachler. He's a medical doctor and author of the book Influenced, The Impact of Social Media on Our Perception. I'll put a link to that book in the show notes. I'm reluctant, but I'll put a link into his social, to his TikTok account so you can see his videos if you would like to. Thanks, Brian. Thanks for telling your story. Well, thank you, Mike. I appreciate being here with you.

Have you ever thought what would happen to your pet if you died? Most people assume a friend or family member would step in and care for the pet, but don't count on it. In the eyes of the court, your pet is considered property. According to attorney Rachel Hirschfeld, author of the book Petriarch, there is a real chance that your beloved pet would be euthanized after your death without proper planning. And she says designating a home for your pet in your will may not be enough because it can take months or years to settle your estate. A better option for your pet is to construct a freestanding pet trust,

but those can get pricey. There is a less expensive option out there called a PPA, or Pet Protection Agreement. You don't need an attorney, but you will need to designate pet guardians and have the document signed and notarized. You can find pet protection agreements online. One place I saw them, it was a website called Pettrustlawyer.com. And that is something you should know. We don't ask for much, but one way you could show your support for something you should know is to tell a friend, ask them to listen, and see what they think. It helps us grow our audience.

I'm Micah Ruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Hey, hey, are you ready for some real talk and some fantastic laughs? Join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa DeMonts, for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? We're serving up four hilarious shows every week designed to entertain and engage and, you know, possibly enrage you. In Don't Blame Me, we dive deep into listeners' questions, offering advice that's funny, relatable, and real.

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