Something You Should Know - How to Be Truly Fascinating & What Are You Really Afraid Of?

Episode Date: January 29, 2018

You have likely been the victim of the Doorway Effect. It’s when you walk into a room and forget why you walked in there. We start this episode with an explanation of what this is and why it happens. Wouldn’t it be great if people regarded you as particularly fascinating? Well it turns out there are specific ways to do that according to Sally Hogshead, speaker and author of the book Fascinate: The 7 Triggers to Persuasion and Captivation (http://amzn.to/2BBZT4I). Sally reveals what you can do so that others find you interesting and how to use your personal fascination to great benefit. If you love guacamole, there is a secret ingredient I want you to try the next time you make it. It’s just a tablespoons worth but it is going to make all the difference in the world, according to Esquire magazine. What are you afraid of? If you watch the news you would think that crime, terrorism and natural disasters are the real threats. But they are not – at least not statistically. The things that harm and kill more people are much more mundane according to Dan Gardner, author of the book, The Science of Fear (http://amzn.to/2DTW8ws). Listen and understand what is really likely to do you harm and what isn’t. It’s going to help you live longer, healthier and happier. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As a listener to Something You Should Know, I can only assume that you are someone who likes to learn about new and interesting things and bring more knowledge to work for you in your everyday life. I mean, that's kind of what Something You Should Know was all about. And so I want to invite you to listen to another podcast called TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done TED Talks. Well, you see, TED Talks Daily is a podcast that brings you a new TED Talk every weekday in less than 15 minutes. Join host Elise Hu.

She goes beyond the headlines so you can hear about the big ideas shaping our future. Learn about things like sustainable fashion, embracing your entrepreneurial spirit, the future of robotics, and so much more. Like I said, if you like this podcast, Something You Should Know, I'm pretty sure you're going to like TED Talks Daily. And you get TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts. Today on Something You Should Know, ever walk into a room and immediately forget why you walked in there? You're about to learn why that happens. Then you're going to discover how to be more fascinating, and I bet you'd really like to

be. We did a study of over a thousand people and the findings were unbelievable. Women would pay more money to be fascinating than they would pay on food and clothes combined. Then, the next time you make guacamole, there's a secret ingredient I want you to add that'll make it the best guacamole you ever ate. Plus what frightens you? There's a good chance you're worried about the wrong things. If you ask Americans about the relative toll taken by tornadoes and asthma, they'll say that

tornadoes kill more people than asthma. In fact, asthma kills 20 times more people than tornadoes. All this today on Something You Should Know. I want to invite you to do something that will completely change the way you look at your home and the space you live in. It starts at a website called modsy.com. What you do is you take their style quiz

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should know with mike carothers hi welcome yeah i mentioned a couple of episodes ago that i had gotten the amazon echo for Christmas, one of the smart speakers. It's kind of the new thing. So many people have them now. And it really is fun to play with. And I had said that one of the things that I couldn't figure out how to do was when you listen to a podcast, how to go back into earlier episodes. When you ask Alexa to play an episode, she'll play the most recent episode, but there was no way to go back into earlier episodes. And I mentioned that on the program and asked if anybody knew how to let me know, and I got an email from Frantisek Koronek, and he told me the way you do it is to simply say, Alexa, skip, and she will play the next episode.

And if you say skip again, or you have to say Alexa, skip, then she will go to the next episode, and the next, and the next. So thank you for telling me, now I know. I want to start today with something called the doorway effect. And this is interesting because this happens to me relatively frequently, and I thought it was just me. But apparently it happens to everyone, and perhaps it's happened to you. The doorway effect is that phenomenon, for example, where you go walk into the kitchen to get something, and as soon as you walk through the kitchen door, you forget why you came into that room. It turns out that researchers have been studying this

for years and have concluded that almost all of us lose some information every time we walk through a doorway. So if you've ever forgotten why you came into the kitchen or where you put your keys, you can blame it often on the doorway effect. Experts say that what happens is our brains experience a subtle shift each time we enter another room or change environment. So it's so busy taking in this new information that it just might purge that one thing you need to remember, like why you came into the kitchen. Now you might think that walking back the way you came

might help you recall why you came into the kitchen. Now you might think that walking back the way you came might help you recall why you came into the room, but researchers have put that to the test and turns out that doesn't really improve recall at all. And that is something you should know. Do you know anyone you would describe as fascinating? It's a pretty high bar to set to be fascinating, but I'm sure you can think of someone. Those people are most likely the ones you would name if somebody asked you, if you could have dinner with anyone, who would it be?

Oprah, the Pope, any president, pastor, president, or maybe it's someone you actually know at work or in your circle of friends. So what is it that makes a person fascinating? And can you make yourself more fascinating? Probably the best person to ask that question to is Sally Hogshead, who's been researching, writing, and speaking on the subject for quite a while. Sally is the author of several books, including Fascinate! The Seven Triggers to Persuasion and Captivation. Hi, Sally. So I think I know fascinating when I see it, but I'm not sure I can define it. So what is it to be fascinating? Fascination is an irresistible

form of attraction. And you know this feeling, you You know when you're totally engrossed in an activity or when you're so involved in eating something or thinking something or buying something or experiencing something that you don't even realize what's going on in the world around you. It's an intense, almost overwhelming type of attraction that you have in the moment. But what about people? overwhelming type of attraction that you have in the moment. But what about people? When we find people fascinating, when they just pull us in like that, what is it about them?

Are they inherent qualities that these people have? Why do we find some people fascinating and other people, you know, dull as dirt? There are people who are just naturally more fascinating than others. And the reason why they're more fascinating is because they have an ability to elicit what I call the fascination triggers. There are seven fascination triggers. Power, lust, mystique, prestige, alarm, vice, and trust. And if you can activate these triggers when you're talking with somebody or marketing to somebody or having any type of connection with them, then you're going to be more fascinating to them. And certain people are just more talented at using the triggers than

other people. And the more of the seven triggers you use, the more fascinating you are? Yes, with a caveat. So Oprah Winfrey, for example, she relies very heavily on trust. We know what to expect from her. She's reliable. She's predictable. She's stable and comforting. Angelina Jolie, she uses lust, which is she draws us in and appeals to us in a more sensory way. But she also uses vice, which is that naughty way she breaks the rules and plays with forbidden fruit.

And she uses mystique, which is making us curious to learn more. There's a lot we don't understand about her public persona. So Oprah uses one trigger mainly. Other people use others. You don't have to use more than one, but you have to be really strong in at least one trigger. But do you think that people like Oprah and Angelina Jolie, they do this on purpose, or is this just who they are?

Ooh, Mike, that's a great question. Celebrities are a little bit more artificial in the way they use their triggers, because it's important for them to be fascinating at all times when they're in front of the camera. So for them, it's a little bit more inauthentic and contrived. For most of us, every day when we're dealing with our kids or our boss or our co-workers and clients, we need to be natural in the way that we use our personality triggers. And we all have these triggers. They're built in. They're hardwired. It's instinctive. We can't help but use the

fascination triggers that are built into our personality. Does that mean that the triggers that you're inclined to use, the ones that are part of your personality, are the best ones to use, or might you be better using other ones? What a great distinction. Nobody's ever asked that, because some people are using the power trigger way too much. Like, if you've had an overbearing boss who's brilliant and talented, but they make you want to cower under your desk when they walk in the room. That's because they're using the power trigger too much, and they're using the alarm trigger. On the other hand, all of us, when we're giving a presentation

or we're trying to communicate something to our children, and we're very effectively getting our ideas across, that's when we're using the triggers that we already have that are part of our natural strength. But there are some people that just don't seem to have or use any of those triggers. They're just dull. They're kind of the anti-fascination.

And you said that these triggers, you're born with them. They kind of come as part of your package. Well, what happened to theirs? They're there. And you said that these triggers, you're born with them. They kind of come as part of your package. Well, what happened to theirs? They're there. They need to figure out a way to start bringing those fascination triggers out. Because when you're fascinating, it's about being influential and persuasive. So if you want the promotion, if you want to get asked out on the date, if you want to be listened to when you're standing in front of a room in a new business pitch,

you have to be able to communicate your ideas in a way that makes people want to not just listen to you but act upon what you're saying. So it's essential to figure out the ways in which you can become more fascinating. So, for example, some people can come across as being very cold and difficult to connect with. And those people are that they're probably using too much of the mystique trigger and not enough of the lust trigger. The lust trigger is the one that makes us warm and inviting and human with open body contact and a sense that people want to connect with us. It would seem to me, as I listen to you talk, that there's a difference between people who are naturally fascinating, who just happen to be fascinating people, and people who have to work at being fascinating. I mean, if you have to work

so hard at being fascinating, how fascinating are you really? And those people who are naturally fascinating, you know, they don't know anything about Sally Hogshead or what it is you teach, they just are fascinating. What do they know that the rest of us don't know? There are certain people that have just a natural charisma, a gift for connecting with others or doing things that we almost can't help but watch. And sometimes they're doing it with a goal in mind. Like people are very fascinated by Adolf Hitler. He uses the power trigger and the alarm trigger,

and as a result his actions were horribly effective. The same is true of terrorists or hijackers. They have a goal and they fascinate people in a heinous way. On the other hand, there are also people that want to be able to accomplish things. They have a political agenda or they want to raise money for the PTA, but they can't seem to figure out how to get that groundswell of support. And by taking a look at the triggers

that they're not using, they could probably find new ways to make their message more compelling. My guest is Sally Hogshead. She's author of the book Fascinate, The Seven Triggers to Persuasion and Captivation. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like something you should know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show.

Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking

birth control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes. Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back, and in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed, critical thinker. Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Rob Benedict. And I am Richard Spate. We were both on a little show you might know called Supernatural. It had a pretty good run, 15 seasons, 327 episodes. And though we have seen, of course, every episode many times,

we figured, hey, now that we're wrapped, let's watch it all again. And we can't do that alone. So we're inviting the cast and crew that made the show along for the ride. We've got writers, producers, composers, directors, and we'll of course have some actors on as well, including some certain guys that played some certain pretty iconic brothers. It was kind of a little bit of a left field choice in the best way possible. The note from Kripke was, he's great, we love him,

but we're looking for like a really intelligent Duchovny type. With 15 seasons to explore, it's going to be the road trip of several lifetimes. So please join us and subscribe to Supernatural then and now. So Sally, aren't these triggers somewhat situational? I mean, even if lust is your best trigger, aren't there situations where you better not be using lust? Yes, exactly. It's very true. And that's one of the great things about having this buffet of triggers that you get to choose. You can ramp some up and pull them back. When I'm in a business situation in a boardroom, I'm probably not going to be using the mystique trigger as much because I need to get my point across.

I'm going to be more relying on the power trigger by commanding authority and respect. And I'm going to use the prestige trigger by trying to make sure that I'm elevating my message so that it carries weight among the audience to which I'm speaking. But if I'm going out with my friends, power and prestige, they don't play as much of a role there. In those cases, I'm going to want to be using the trust trigger and communicating to my friends that they can rely on me and feel comfortable with me. Or the vice trigger by maybe telling an unexpected joke or doing something that isn't the same old conversation. But when you say triggers like vice and lust, I mean, people think naughty things. Think of brands using something like lust. Like you lust for chocolate or you lust for a sports car.

It's that craving that you have when you want to be close to something. At its heart, Fascinate is a marketing book, and it has application to personal brands, but it's really about making companies and organizations more fascinating. And these brands need to find new ways of communicating outside of the way they normally do. So the vice trigger is one that a brand that's coming into the marketplace that needs to kick up some dirt and surprise people and do something fresh, they're going to have to use some sort of way to compete against the 800-pound gorilla in the category, and the vice trigger is the one that they should use to create a message that is not going to be the same old thing that people have always heard.

These seven triggers that you've come up with, where did they come from? Is this the result of some research, or are these things you developed, or what's the source of the seven triggers? When I was developing this concept of how do we create more persuasive messages, that was the theme of the book that I wanted to develop. And I began to realize that there are very instinctive reasons why we do the things we do, why we make the decisions we do, why we have seemingly irrational behaviors. And as I conducted the research, we did a study of over 1,000 people throughout the United States. It was conducted by a research firm. The findings

were unbelievable. Women would pay more money to be fascinating than they would pay on food and clothes combined, $388 a month. That's how much they would be willing to pay in order to be the most fascinating person in the room. And as we started looking at the traits that people described and how they wanted to fascinate or what fascinated them, we started to create these buckets, these seven pillars. And we tried a few different combinations. It took about a year to get the combination of triggers into something that were very clearly defined categories. And any behavior, any decision can be parsed into one or more of these seven triggers. Doesn't everyone want to be more fascinating? Everybody needs to be more fascinating if we want to persuade others with whatever our message is,

whether it's keeping your kids off drugs or lobbying for a new job. The problem is that we don't know exactly how because we don't know how to create more, make ourselves more persuasive or make our brands more persuasive. The only people who don't want to be more fascinating are those who need to fly under the radar. For whatever reason, they don't want to attract any attention to themselves at all. Those are very few people because we all have to get attention for our message, whether we're talking to a gate agent at a flight that's totally sold out and we have to sweet talk our way onto the plane, or we want to have a closer

relationship with our own family. We all need to persuade people. It all comes down to marketing. Yeah, but that sounds so inauthentic and manipulative that it's all marketing. But it is all marketing. But it is all marketing. It is, and not in a superficial way. As human beings, we need to be able to connect. You know, when you were born, and the moment that you were born, you had a very limited number of instincts.

One of those instincts was the instinct to smile. And as soon as you were able to smile, you began to do that at your parents because you wanted to captivate them so that they would continue to take care of you and change your diaper and feed you, even though you probably had a nasty habit of doing things like crying in the middle of the night. And the reason why you did that is because relationships are essential and they they they pivot on one person's ability to transfix the other person and you got you got this whole amazing dashboard of instincts specifically around how to make eye contact how to read somebody else's facial cues how to project your body language so that other people would understand that you weren't trying to eat them or attack them, that you wanted to socialize with them. We developed these

over thousands of years because they enhance our survival. And we use them today without even knowing it, even though there's a lot of electronic communication and phone communication, it still comes down to these seven instinctive triggers. Can you give me an example or two or three of a company or brand or product that has used some of these triggers effectively? Sure. What Apple's done that's revolutionary is that they brought the lust trigger into the category of MP3 players and phones. When you hold an iPhone in your hand or when you look at it, there's something about it that is sensual and appealing, and it makes you want to interact with it. When you go into their stores, they're beautiful.

They feel powerful. They use the power trigger and the prestige trigger. They've developed an incredibly strong base of people because they have mystique. They use vice because they have mystique. They use vice because they took all the rules of the category that were developed by Dell and IBM, and they tweaked them. They found their own way to interpret it. And they also use trust because we know that when Apple comes out with a product,

it's going to be incredibly good, and it's going to have a very creative way of seeing the world. Give me another one, because Apple's always in that list of companies that do things better and differently and with excellence and all, but how about another example? Godiva. Godiva uses lust brilliantly because it takes all of the senses and it incorporates them in pulling us into its stores with scent and touch and sound. And it uses prestige because it's more cherished than a lot of other chocolate brands like Hershey's. Are you familiar with the drink that is named Jägermeister? Sure. Well, of course.

I mean, everybody's had a night or two of Jagermeister in their life. The brilliant thing that Jagermeister does is even though most people despise the taste of Jagermeister, the brand continues to grow because everybody wants to know what is Jagermeister actually made of. Does it really have opiates and Valium in it? Does it really have Quaaludes or some other type of crushed drug dissolved inside? There are all these great urban myths that make people want to drink it because it makes them feel like they're doing something that's more

mysterious when they're experiencing the Jagermeister brand, even though they hate the taste. How about a brand that's a little more everyday, maybe a little more mundane, like McDonald's? Okay, McDonald's is fantastic at using the trust trigger. There was a study done that they put branded Chicken McNuggets, meaning Chicken McNuggets in a McDonald's container, in front of children.

And then they took the exact same nuggets, McDonald's Chicken Nug nuggets, in a plain container. And overwhelmingly, three-year-olds said that the ones in the McDonald's container tasted better because they trust that brand and they know that brand and they have a very strong response to it. McDonald's also uses the vice trigger when it tempts us with the fat and oil and sugar in its food. And we know we're not supposed to eat it when we're on a diet, but we crave it anyway. And it uses lust because it makes us, we want to taste that cheeseburger and that chocolate shake. So brands work at being more fascinating,

celebrities work at being more fascinating, and really everybody can work at being more fascinating using these seven triggers that you outline. Sally Hogshead has been my guest. She is author of the book Fascinate! The Seven Triggers to Persuasion and Captivation, and there's a link to her book in the show notes for this episode of the program. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives.

So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson, discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars.

Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. Do you love Disney? Then you are going to love our hit podcast Disney Countdown I'm Megan the Magical Millennial and I'm the Dapper Danielle on every episode of our fun and family-friendly show we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney there is nothing we don't cover we are famous for rabbit holes Disney themed games and fun facts you didn't know you needed but you

definitely need in your life so if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. One thing that worries me is how our perception of the world as a dangerous place has become pretty well accepted. But statistically, the world is not more dangerous than it was 20 or 30 years ago. In fact, it's less dangerous. It's a safer place. So why do we worry so much? Why 30, 40 years ago could a kid stay outside and play with his friends and mom and dad not worry

as long as the kid was home in time for dinner? Today, mom and dad want to know where their child is every second because potential danger is lurking around every corner. Is it? Really? Dan Gardner is author of the book The Science of Fear, and he has a pretty good grasp of just how afraid we should and shouldn't be. Hey Dan, so in the big picture, when you look at what the research says, what did you discover? What's the big takeaway here?

I discovered that when I would dig into issues like crime, cancer, terrorism, when I'd really dig into the research, I'd find that time after time, the threat just wasn't as great as it was posed in the media, as the media portrayed it to be, and as the public believed it to be. And at the same time, I was seeing that these threats weren't as bad as they were made out to be. I was coming across information which indicated that, in fact, there's a whole lot of good news we don't know about.

You know, there have been spectacular declines in child mortality rates, enormous, unprecedented, historically unprecedented increases in life expectancy. In fact, it's no exaggeration to say that we're the healthiest and safest people who ever lived. So there's a strange paradox at the heart of the book, which is we are the safest and healthiest people who ever lived, but at the same time, we're increasingly worried about what are, by any sort of rational measure, fairly trivial risks. So what do you think the source is for all this fear? Why are we so afraid when the evidence doesn't support that we should be? I basically define three factors as the sources of this irrational fear that we have, and it's the interaction of the three factors that matters.

One of the factors is certainly the media we have to take responsibility we overdramatize we uh... we tell the rare sensational the dramatic story and we are of course ignore the under matic uh... on the spectacular forms of death such as asthma and diabetes which uh... which actually uh... take the lives of an enormous number of people. The second factor is the long list of individuals and organizations who promote fear to advance their own interests. Politicians, governments, obviously, also corporations, non-governmental organizations, activists, police chiefs. There's a long, long list of these folks.

And then the third factor, and the most activists, police chiefs. There's a long, long list of these folks. And then the third factor and the most fundamental is basic human psychology, particularly cognitive psychology. How do we decide what to worry about and what not to worry about? When you really dig into that psychology, that's when you begin to understand how we can get things so wrong. So we collectively have this irrational fear that things are very dangerous, and then you come along and say, well, no, things aren't as dangerous as you think they are. Well, how dangerous are they? Where are we? Are we somewhere in the middle? Where are we? Well, I mean, the big picture is simply this. If you look at life expectancy as the single most important statistic that matters,

life expectancy at birth, if you look at life expectancy at birth in the United States, 200, 250 years ago, it was about 50 years. And then it goes up a little bit, and then it goes down a little bit, then it goes up a little bit, then it goes down a little bit. And at the beginning of the 20th century, it's about 50 years. And that's the story of human progress on life expectancy. There's a little bit of progress, a little bit of decline, and we never really go anywhere. But then over the last 100 years, there's been this spectacular improvement, such that today in the United States, life expectancy at birth is approaching 80 years. As I say, that's absolutely unprecedented in human

history. So I think it's undeniable that we are safer than ever, safer and healthier. And by the way, another statistic that is absolutely astonishing, I think, just 100 years ago, the child mortality rate in the United States was almost one in five, meaning almost one in five American children would die before the age of five. Today, of course, that child mortality rate is much less than one percent. So there's been a spectacular improvement. And I think it's undeniable that, in fact, we are the safest and healthiest people who ever lived. So when you look a little deeper then, what is it that people are afraid of? What are the things specifically that people fear? Well, basically, out of the risk perception research conducted by psychologists,

the most basic finding is that we tend to exaggerate the toll taken by dramatic, sensational, catastrophic killers. And we tend to underestimate the toll taken by the opposite, the undramatic, the uncatastrophic, the slow killers. So, for example, tornadoes and asthma, if you ask Americans about the relative toll taken by tornadoes and asthma, they'll say that tornadoes kill more people than asthma. In fact, asthma kills 20 times more people than tornadoes. You know, again, asthma is the undramatic killer. Tornado is obviously the dramatic killer. We see this pattern over and over again. Partly that has to do with the media, because of course the media leans heavily in the direction of the dramatic killer and not the undramatic killer.

So tornadoes lead off the evening news, but of course somebody killed by asthma, well, you'll never see that on the evening news, even though it's fairly common. So what should we worry about? I mean, if we're going to worry, we might as well worry about something that really is a danger, that's really worth worrying about. Oh, sure. Listen, the CDC had a good study on the ultimate causes of preventable death, because, of course, we all have to die of something, but we want to prevent those deaths that we can prevent.

And the top three causes of preventable death were, number one, tobacco, number two, poor diet and lack of exercise, number three, alcohol. And so what all the three leading causes of preventable death have in common is they're all lifestyle issues. They're not the dramatic killers. They're not terrorism and all these other things. They're not, you know, pedophiles snatching children and whatnot that get the headlines and that cause public anxiety.

They're lifestyle issues. If we adjust our lifestyle, if we eat better, if we get exercise, if we don't smoke, if we moderate our alcohol intake, you can dramatically improve your safety. And you're right. That is just so boring. We've heard for years, you should eat less, you should sleep more, and you should exercise more.

We've heard that forever, and it's hard to get all worked up about it. It's much more interesting to worry about the big dramatic fears. That's exactly right. It is boring. Goodness, stop eating potato chips, get up off the couch and do some exercise and you'll, you know, you'll increase your safety. That is so boring. But that is reality. If you look at what actually kills Americans versus, you know, what Americans are worried about, what actually kills Americans are these

lifestyle issues. You know, it's heart disease is the number one killer. Number two is cancer. Diabetes is in the top ten. Diabetes kills more Americans each year than terrorists have ever killed around the world or ever will. You know, these are the things that really take a massive toll. And as boring as it may be, the best advice for those who want to increase their personal safety is simply lead a healthier lifestyle. And yet we do see on the news, and I've heard the argument, that what we're talking about is statistics.

That statistically, you're more likely to live longer and safer if you do these things. But the fact is, terrorism happens, horrible violent crimes happen, and if you're a victim of that, or a potential victim of that, that's really horrible. Oh, absolutely. I would never deny that, you know, for instance, terrorism. Of course terrorism is real. Of course it's significant. And if you are, or a loved one of the victim of terrorism that terrible terrible tragedy we have to keep a perspective if you're an individual you have a long list of

things that you have to concern yourself with and we have to decide what should really focus on what should i you know put my devote my mental energy to? And any rational examination will tell you that, you know, eating junk food and not exercising is vastly more likely to kill you, ultimately, than are terrorists. So clearly that's where your focus should be. You know, the important thing to realize is that it's a question of probabilities.

You know, it's incredibly unlikely that you'll be struck by lightning and killed. And yet, people are struck by lightning and killed every year in the United States. Why is that? It's because the United States consists of 300 million people. So that even if there's something incredibly unlikely, like a one in a million risk, well, there's 300 million Americans. Somebody somewhere in the United States is going to suffer that incredibly unlikely risk. We can't allow that incident to skew our understanding of probabilities.

You know, somebody may be struck by lightning, but it remains true that it's incredibly unlikely that you'll be struck by lightning. So it's not really worth worrying about. I mean, if you're struck by lightning, that's a pretty random event, unless you're standing on a mountaintop, you know, with a lightning rod on top of your head. The chances are pretty slim, but to those it does happen to, it's pretty random. So you really can't worry about it. That's right. I mean, a lot of these highly improbable risks that cause some folks to worry about them, you know, there's not a lot of control we have over them. You know,

improving your lifestyle, getting more exercise, eating better, you have total control over that. That's all up to you. But, you know, being a victim of terrorism, you know, if you're traveling, it could happen. It's incredibly unlikely, but it could happen. And what can you do about it? Essentially nothing. You know, so, again, it just makes more rational sense to focus on the things that we can change and which those things that we can change just happen to be the things that actually do kill huge numbers of people,

and they're the really significant causes of death in the United States. It seems like there are a lot of things mixed up into this as I listen to you speak. One of them is the time, that the time it takes for a perceived fear to do any harm, if it's slow, we don't worry about it so much, like smoking or sitting on the couch and eating potato chips and not exercising. But also just that feeling of threat. We don't feel threatened by sitting on the couch and eating, but we feel threatened when a tornado is bearing down on us.

So that sense of time and that sense of imminent threat seems to have a lot to do with what we're afraid of. Oh, that's exactly right. What psychologists have discovered is, see, ideally when we make decisions, your unconscious mind forms a judgment and it delivers it in a snap, and then your conscious mind can come along and it can examine your feelings, your intuitive judgment, and it can correct it or adjust it or even overrule it if it chooses. Ideally, that's how we make decisions. In reality, what cognitive psychologists have shown is that when we have a strong intuition that something is true,

we do not examine that intuition. We just go with it. And so we don't bring our conscious mind to bear. We don't ask if there's real evidence for this. We don't ask if it makes any rational sense. And so if your unconscious mind says, hey, relax, lying on the couch eating potato chips, that feels good. That's not a serious risk. And you don't have any real threat, sense of threat coming from your unconscious mind, your conscious mind is not likely to be brought to bear.

That's not the habit that most of us are in. So you won't stop and say to yourself, does that actually make sense? And that's where we get into trouble, because we so often go with what our unconscious mind tells us intuitively, and we don't think about it consciously and rationally. Well, that would also explain or help explain why our hypothetical person sitting on the couch eating potato chips

never can quite seem to stop doing that until they have that heart attack. And then the motivation seems to come out of nowhere where it's no problem to stop eating the junk and start exercising because you've had this serious threat called a heart attack. That's exactly right because the experience of the heart attack, you know, your intuitive mind, your unconscious mind, it understands that. That's a powerful motivator. And so at that point, both your conscious mind and your unconscious mind will be aligned. Hey, this is serious.

Got to take this serious. But until that time, as long as your unconscious mind is saying, hey, relax, this is no big deal, you're going to have trouble. And simultaneously, you know, it's a strange thing, but, you know, while you're sitting on the couch eating potato chips and not exercising and not worrying about heart disease, you know, you're watching television news, and then you're watching things like, for instance, a stranger, you know, a story about a stranger abducting and murdering a child. Your intuitive mind, your unconscious mind will be

deeply disturbed by that, and that will help drive its risk perception of the threat of strangers abducting children, for other reasons, because there are other mechanisms involved in the unconscious mind. And so the result is, as you are engaged in one activity, which is very likely, over time, to increase your risk of premature death, you will be worrying about something which is incredibly unlikely, which is child abduction by strangers. And it's all happening because of the mistakes made by your unconscious mind and because you fail to bring your conscious mind to bear on your unconscious decisions

and to stop and ask yourself, wait a second, does this really make sense? Do I actually have evidence? Is this rational? Well, I like your message because I think that we are overly protective today. We are overly concerned about things we probably don't need to be. And I do this too, especially when it comes to my kids. I want to be protective, and I see all these horrible things on TV. But those are not the things that we need to focus so much on. But the real problems, the real things we need to be concerned with are a lot more mundane and potentially a lot more dangerous.

Dan Gardner has been my guest. His book is The Science of Fear, and it's available at Amazon. I've got a link to it in the show notes. It'll take you right to Amazon if you would like to buy it. And thanks for spending time with us today, Dan. Appreciate it. Who doesn't love guacamole? Everybody likes it. I mean, even my boys who are, you know, pretty picky eaters, they'll both eat guacamole. It's not only delicious, it's healthy, and it's pretty easy to make. A little avocado, garlic, lime juice, onion, salt, and maybe some tomato, and you're good to go. But the editors at Esquire magazine found a secret ingredient that they say makes all the difference in the world,

and you will never guess what it is. Mayonnaise. Now, to the guacamole purists, and I always kind of considered myself that, this sounds absolutely terrible. Mayonnaise in your guacamole? But wait a second, it's not a lot. It's just one tablespoon of mayo

to a recipe that contains three avocados. That's it. Just one tablespoon per three avocados. I've tried it, and like Esquire, I believe if you try it, it will be the best guacamole you ever tasted. And that is something you should know. We are on Facebook and Twitter, and I invite you to head over there and follow us there because we post lots of interesting content that you don't hear in the show. And we are creeping ever closer to a thousand reviews on iTunes.

So if you have a moment to please head over there and leave us a rating and or review, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Hey, hey, are you ready for some real talk and some fantastic laughs? Join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa Demonts, for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? We're serving up four hilarious shows every week designed to entertain and engage and, you know, possibly enrage you.

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