Something You Should Know - How to Break a Disagreement Deadlock & A New Habit That Can Change Your Life

Starting point is 00:00:00 As a listener to Something You Should Know, I can only assume that you are someone who likes to learn about new and interesting things and bring more knowledge to work for you in your everyday life. I mean, that's kind of what Something You Should Know is all about. And so I want to invite you to listen to another podcast called TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done TED Talks. Well, you see, TED Talks Daily is a podcast that brings you a new TED Talk every weekday in less than 15 minutes. Join host Elise Hu. She goes beyond the headlines so you can hear about the big ideas shaping our future.

Starting point is 00:00:42 Learn about things like sustainable fashion, embracing your entrepreneurial spirit, the future of robotics, and so much more. Like I said, if you like this podcast, Something You Should Know, I'm pretty sure you're going to like TED Talks Daily. And you get TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts. Today on Something You Should Know, the next time you get a cut, you might want to skip the antibiotic cream. I'll explain why. Then a great technique

Starting point is 00:01:15 that will resolve almost any conflict. But you have to do something first. The prerequisite to that, what has to happen first, is I have to not care about being right. You know, being right is overrated. Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? Then, what your earlobes can tell you about your heart health, and a simple habit to incorporate into your morning routine that can change your attitude, mindset and behavior in a very positive way. And it is going to be one of these things that when you first hear me explain it, you're probably going to think, why am I listening to this right now? Trust me, do not dismiss what I'm about to tell you just because the idea is simple.

Starting point is 00:01:59 All this today on Something You Should Know. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer,

Starting point is 00:02:41 podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson, discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome to Something You Should Know. Well, it's happened again. It's happened a couple of times over the course of the last few years of this podcast.

Starting point is 00:03:30 And that is, we just got a big bump in the number of listeners, specifically people listening on Spotify. And it is always the case in podcasting, it's really hard to tell what happened, why that is. Maybe somebody recommended us in a blog or an article or on their podcast, but something happened and we got a bunch of new listeners, and if you're one of them, welcome. First up today, the next time you or your child get a cut or scrape, you might want to skip the antibiotic ointment or cream. A lot of doctors and nurses agree it's really overused and you can actually make things worse by killing healthy skin cells if the wound is not infected. But also, just as doctors are concerned about antibiotic resistance from taking antibiotics internally, overusing antibiotic cream on your skin can create antibiotic resistance as well.

Starting point is 00:04:34 Researchers have uncovered cases of antibiotic resistance due to the overprescription of topical antibiotics. And that's not good. And that is something you should know. I know you've been in a situation where you're arguing with someone, you know you're right, you know they're wrong, and the discussion doesn't go anywhere. How can it? When you're right, you're right. But boy, that's a bad way to end a discussion where you're frustrated, they're frustrated, nothing gets accomplished. So how can you better handle those impasses? Those times when it doesn't seem like there is anywhere to go. This is

Starting point is 00:05:19 important because those impasses often happen with important people in life. So a way to resolve the impasse would be good. That's what Javier Amador is here to discuss. Javier is a clinical psychologist and teacher and author of the book, I'm Right, You're Wrong, Now What? Break the Impasse and Get What You Need. Hi Javier, welcome. Thanks Mike, glad to be here. So obviously your strategy has some complexity and some details to talk about, but in general,

Starting point is 00:05:52 in a sweeping general way, what is the way to end an impasse? Just shut up, listen, and you win. It's that simple. When someone is repeating themselves, repeating their position, and I'm talking with them, and I'm starting to disagree with them and starting to fight with them, and I hear that they're repeating themselves, I have to remind myself to just shut up, to stop, and listen, and reflect back. So, what you're saying to me is, I am not doing my part. I didn't take the garbage out. I didn't do the dishes, right? Right. It stops the back and forth, the punch counterpunch verbally that goes on when people have disagreements. So the overriding principle is first to pause and make an active effort to actively listen.

Starting point is 00:06:48 So phrases like, okay, let me stop myself. What you're saying is, let me see if I understand what you just told me is, right? And then reflect back with what the person has said, and then ask them, did they feel heard? Don't assume if you're listening and you think you're a very good listener, that the person feels heard. They're the ultimate judge on whether they've been heard or not. So ask them, did I get it? That's something I teach to police officers, to de-escalate people who are mentally ill, who are high on drugs. That is an approach that I've taught also to hostage negotiators. It's an immediate way to calm someone down, get their attention, and engage them with you. And when you say that, typically, if you've done a good job of repeating back what you think was said, and you say, did I get that right?

Starting point is 00:07:41 Do most often do you hear, yeah, you got that right? Every time. I mean, nothing's every time, but pretty darn close to every time. And then the next step really is to empathize with the person because there's typically emotion behind arguments that we're having with loved ones or with the checkout counter guy. Sorry, you must be frustrated. Yeah, I am frustrated. And then what I teach is to normalize it. You know, I'd be frustrated too. Let's back up and see if we can resolve this. So listen reflectively, actively, make sure the person feels heard. And when they tell you they have felt heard, empathize with them and normalize it. You know, I'd feel angry too. I'd feel frustrated too. Even if you don't agree?

Starting point is 00:08:28 Especially if you don't agree. Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? Do you want to be right or do you want to be effective? Well, sometimes I really feel like I want to be right. Yeah. And look, so do I. I forget the method that I'm talking about is called the LEAP method. It stands for listen, empathize, agree. Look for areas where you agree, and then you start to problem solve. You partner with the person. Listen, empathize, agree, and partner. And I forget to use it. I especially forget to use this with my teenage son. And it's a constant reminder that when I stop, first, is I have to not care about being right. You know, being right is overrated. And here's the other thing.

Starting point is 00:09:34 When I'm not convincing the person I'm right, and I keep trying to convince them I'm right, I'm insane. I am. It's Albert Einstein's definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. So if you find yourself repeating your position more than three times, just cut it out. Stop. Take a break. Say, you know what? I haven't been listening. Why don't you tell me again what your problem is with me? Reflect it back, empathize with the feelings that they're expressing or ask them what they're feeling. And then say, well, can we agree on and look for something you can agree on? And sometimes it might be something as simple as, can we agree that we don't want to fight

Starting point is 00:10:15 about this? So it's about de-escalation and connection. So I listen, I empathize, we find something to agree on. And now what? Because we still want different things. So where do we then start to come into alignment here? Well, it's problem solving. It's negotiation. It's finding a middle ground, right? And now that's the best scenario, finding a middle ground. Other times, it's being willing when you're in an

Starting point is 00:10:47 impasse with somebody to give up some things, right? To give up maybe entirely. Because if your eye is on the prize of, and look, Mike, it all depends on the relationship. If this is a close love relationship or a loving relationship or a family relationship, the stakes are much higher. If this is somebody at the grocery store or I got a ticket from a New York City police officer and I was running up to the car and, you know, I was gone for three minutes. I ran into a bodega. I came back out. I knew I was illegally parked, but it wasn't a fire hydrant. I didn't think it was that bad.

Starting point is 00:11:29 And she's putting the ticket under the windshield wiper. And I walk up to her and she puts her hand up to basically tell me to don't say a word. I said, hey, look, no, no, no. I just want to say, you know, I'm really sorry. You're right to give me the ticket. I get it. I just ran into the bodega for a minute, you know, and I really sorry. You're right to give me the ticket. I get it. I just ran into the bodega for a minute, you know, and I thought it would be okay. But, you know, you guys have a

Starting point is 00:11:52 really tough job. It's got to be frustrating. I immediately started to do active, reflective listening and empathizing. I sort of predicted what she was thinking and feeling. And I saw her shoulders drop and she smiled at me and she said, I was just about to write you a second ticket. You know, your registration has expired. And she said, no, she said, but you know what? We're okay. Just don't park here anymore. Now, I don't know for sure, but I got something. I got about $170 fine reduced in that moment by doing an active and anticipatory reflective listening and empathizing with this person. So, in that case, I did get what I wanted, which was, you know, less penalties. In everyday life, I mean, you know, it's easier for me to describe this, Mike, if we're talking about

Starting point is 00:12:46 specific scenarios. In everyday life, again, with loved ones, it's actually far easier for me. I know that the relationship is the most important thing to me. And so, I do tend to give up on being right and insisting that I'm right far more easily and focus on the thing I'm hoping the person will do for me. So just to be clear, you did get the ticket. You just didn't get the second ticket. That's right. Well, I had the first ticket had been written was under my windshield wiper. And when I walked up to her, she was immediately, you know, and I don't know if, you know, for those listeners who have gotten tickets in New York City that these, you know, these men and women have a really tough job and they're hated. They're absolutely hated.

Starting point is 00:13:34 And when she put her hand up, you know, the hand, don't say a word. I was taking a chance. And I said, hey, look, I'm not upset. You know, this is a really hard job you got. It's really frustrating. And then I explained myself what I did and why I did it. And I said, you know, I understand. And I reached for the ticket. And that's when she smiled and said, well, I was going to give you another one, but I'll give you a break. We're talking about conflict resolution, how to resolve an impasse. And my guest

Starting point is 00:14:01 is Javier Amador. The name of his book is I'm Right, You're Wrong, Now What? Hi, this is Rob Benedict. And I am Richard Spate. We were both on a little show you might know called Supernatural. It had a pretty good run, 15 seasons, 327 episodes. And though we have seen, of course, every episode many times, we figured, hey, now that we're wrapped, let's watch it all again. And we can't do that alone. So we're inviting the cast and crew that made the show along for the ride. We've got writers, producers, composers, directors, and we'll of course have some actors on as well, including some certain guys that played some certain pretty iconic brothers. It was kind of a little bit of a left field choice in the best way possible. The note from Kripke was, he's great, we love him, but we're looking for like a

Starting point is 00:14:53 really intelligent Duchovny type. With 15 seasons to explore, it's going to be the road trip of several lifetimes. So please join us and subscribe to Supernatural then and now. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like something you should know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most.

Starting point is 00:15:30 Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes.

Starting point is 00:15:55 Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back. And in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed, critical thinker. Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. So Javier, give me another example, because the example of the traffic cop is a good one, but that's not a relationship that, I mean, you'll never see that person again. There's nothing to save in terms of the relationship. So give me an example of maybe people who are a little closer than you in that traffic cop and then how this would work. Well, there's a couple I worked with that comes to mind where the wife was really feeling rejected and angry at her husband because he was almost never home.

Starting point is 00:16:52 He was out with his friends. And they got into a big fight about it. And his position was, I work really hard and I deserve to have time off. And it's only four nights a week. And she's like, it's too much. And he says, no, it a week. And, and she's like, it's too much. And he says, No, it's not. And she's like, well, it is too much. As you know, that's what other couples did. And she started kitchen sinking and bringing in allies. Well, that's not what so and so does. That's not what my sister does. That's not what their marriage is like. And he starts throwing in

Starting point is 00:17:17 his allies of people that he knows that do it the way he does it. So they're getting nowhere, they're going back and forth. And I was working with a wife and I said to her, she was telling me the story. I said, why don't you just ask him, why is this so important to you? And so she did. She said, we've been arguing about this. Why is it so important for you to go out?

Starting point is 00:17:38 And he said, well, I'm just stressed with work, with the kids being home and and they had three kids. And it's noisy, and I just need to get away. And she reflected that back. So, you know, what you're saying is it's really stressful when you come home from a stressful day of work to be around the kids. He's like, yeah. She said, well, I can get that. And she didn't say, yeah, me too.

Starting point is 00:18:02 She simply stayed with him and his experience and said, yeah, I get that. I totally get that. You know, if I were you, I'd want to be out too. And he calmed down and he apologized. He said, I'm really sorry. And she said, what are you sorry for? And he says, I don't really know. It's literally what he said.

Starting point is 00:18:18 And as she told me the story, position of him calming down and feeling apologetic, she asked him a favor, which is another thing that I teach. Can I ask you a favor? Could you just, let's try this out, make it two nights a week. And let's have a date night where it's just the two of us and we get away from the kids. And he agreed to it. So she got what she wanted. He didn't lose all that he wanted. He still had a couple of nights out with his friends. But it started with this really pretty intense argument. And she decided to step out of the point-counterpoint interaction, ask him how he felt, what was going on. She empathized with him. She listened. And from that, he calmed down and just reflexively apologized. He wasn't even

Starting point is 00:19:08 sure for what. And then they could start problem solving. Then they could start negotiating. The idea of asking for a favor, talk about that because it seems like that's probably a really good time. Like you've softened them up a little or something. I mean, you tell me what's going on, but it seems like that's probably a good idea to ask for something. Well, in terms of softening people up, it's the principle of the timeless principle, the ancient principle that we want to be heard. Everybody wants to be heard, wants to be understood and listened to. It's wired into our brains. In terms of asking for a favor, I started to really use this a lot more in my work after reading Benjamin Franklin's autobiography. And arguably,

Starting point is 00:20:02 Benjamin Franklin is one of the best, if not the best diplomat we've ever had. I mean, he had to deal with major disagreement with France about supporting the American Revolution. And what he wrote in his autobiography is two things. He made it a point to never be dogmatic. In other words, to never say I'm right about something. And he said, the other thing is to ask for favors. Because when you ask for favors, you've put yourself in a position of almost, he didn't say it this way, and I'm trying to remember how he said it, but basically like a dog rolling over on its belly and saying, okay, you know, I'm yours. You're creating a relationship where the person is empowered. You know, this person has just asked me for a favor, and now I have something I could give

Starting point is 00:20:55 them or withhold. So asking for a favor is complex on the one hand. On the other hand, it's really quite simple when you think about it. When people ask you for a favor and you're feeling softened, like you said, you're feeling heard and understood by that person, it feels good to do somebody a favor. It feels like the right thing. As you said in the beginning, this all starts with letting go of the need to be right, which is easy to say when you're talking about this, but in the heat of the moment, especially when you really believe and know you're right, it can be very hard to let go of the need to be right.

Starting point is 00:21:43 Sometimes the need to be right is just as important as anything else. So what is it you have to do? How do you let go of that need to be right? You remember that you're only going to have to do this for a short period of time. You're still right. You know you're right. And you're going to have an opportunity to convince the person you're right only after they are not pushing back and arguing with you and butting heads with you. So you don't have to give it up entirely. It's about hitting the pause button, putting it aside, focusing on the interaction, on the relationship, on helping that person feel heard. And then you can go back to your position. The situation I'm thinking about right now, you got me thinking about is, are people who have taken the COVID vaccine,

Starting point is 00:22:34 and then people who are very much against it. And I've had an opportunity, I'm vaccinated, I'm boosted. And I've had several opportunities to talk with, well, one of them is one of my sons, who's an anti-vaxxer. And I know I'm right. And I've tried to convince him that I'm right. I've, you know, I've sent him links to the CDC. I was doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. I was, you know, Einstein's definition of insanity once again. And I finally shifted gears, put aside my need to be right about this. And I still think I'm right. And said to him, you know, his name's Robinson. You know, Robinson, tell me what your concern is about the vaccine. And he started to tell me these things, which I'll be honest, I thought were kind of crazy and

Starting point is 00:23:25 irrational. And I nevertheless said, so what you're saying is it's going to cause gene splicing. It's going to really mess with your genes. And it's also more likely going to give you the COVID. Is that right? Did I understand you? And he says, yeah, yeah, dad. And I said, well, I can see why you don't want to take it. It must be scary. And he said, it is scary. I said, do you feel a lot of pressure from people and from me? And he said, yeah, I feel a lot of pressure from you. And I said, well, I'm sorry. That's another thing you can use. And it's part of the LEAP approach is strategic apologies. I'm really well, I'm sorry. That's another thing you can use. And as part of the LEAP approach is, you know, strategic apologies. I'm really sorry. I've been pushing you. I'll stop doing it. And that was the end of that conversation. He texted me a day later and said, I'm thinking

Starting point is 00:24:14 about getting the vaccine. Completely unsolicited on my part. Thinking about getting the vaccine. This just happened last week. So I don't know if he's gotten the vaccine yet. I'm not sure what my next step is. But back to your question about, you know, being right, boy, do I feel I'm right about this. Boy, did I feel I was right about this. But, you know, sending him CDC links and making the arguments I made were getting us nowhere but further and deeper into an impasse. So listening to him and empathizing with him, you know, a day later I got a text. That's really interesting. Of course, you are making the assumption that it was your conversation that swayed him to think maybe he'd get the vaccination. And there may be other things going on, other pressures in his life as well. But what do you think it was?

Starting point is 00:25:12 What do you think happened in his head that made him about face or think about making an about face? He had nothing to push against anymore. I wasn't pushing back. It's a bit like the difference between boxing and jujitsu. With boxing, you know, someone throws a punch, you block it, and there's a counterpunch. And verbally, that's what we do when we say, I'm right, you're wrong. No, I'm right, you're wrong. It's punch, counterpunch, block, punch, counterpunch. With jujitsu, somebody throws a punch at you, and what you do is you step aside and you gently grab their arm, and I mean gently, and move them in the direction they were punching. It's a defensive martial art. You're using the person's energy to move them where you would like them to be, which is not in your face punching you.

Starting point is 00:26:01 And when you explain it that way, it makes perfect sense. And yet, in the moment, it's very hard to do that. Because it's counterintuitive. It's exactly what you said. It's counterintuitive. When I have an opinion, I want to impose it on you. I want to tell you, if I think I'm right about something, especially something that's really important to me, I want to verbalize that. And I want to convince you and I want to push you into a position where you're accepting that, boy, you know, Javier's right. You know, it's stopping that process, apologizing for doing all that and saying, you know, you tell me, you know, you're verbally asking the person to explain their position and then you embrace it.

Starting point is 00:26:47 You absorb it and you embrace it. You absorb it by reflectively listening and then you embrace it verbally by empathizing with the person. I can see why you're you're pissed off at me. Well, as I listen to you talk about this, it certainly makes a lot of sense if and and I guess only if, you can let go of that need to be right, which can be difficult. But if you can and do what you're talking about, good things can happen. Javier Amador has been my guest. He is a psychologist, teacher, and author of the book, I'm Right, You're Wrong, Now What? Break the impasse and get what you need. There's a link to that book in the show notes.

Starting point is 00:27:28 Thanks, Javier. Do you love Disney? Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. There is nothing we don't cover.

Starting point is 00:27:45 We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed, but you definitely need in your life. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa Demonts for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? Each week, we deliver four fun-filled shows. In Don't Blame Me, we tackle our listeners' dilemmas with hilariously honest advice. Then we have But Am I Wrong?, which is for the listeners that didn't take our advice. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events. Then tune in to see you next Tuesday for our listener poll results from But Am I Wrong?

Starting point is 00:28:24 And finally, wrap up your week with Fisting Friday, where we catch up and talk all things pop culture. Listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. I think we would all like simpler solutions to our problems, simpler ways to reach our goals, and a simpler path to take in life. And yet often when presented with a simple idea, we think, well, that'll never work. It's too simple.

Starting point is 00:29:01 Well, here's something simple. It's called the high-five habit that just may be a simple way to make your life better. According to Mel Robbins, Mel is an attorney, TV host, author, and speaker who has authored several books, including The High Five Habit, which she's about to explain. Hi, Mel. Thanks for coming on Something You Should Know. Hey, thanks for having me. You bet. So dive in here. What is the high five habit? The high five habit is a simple habit that I want

Starting point is 00:29:33 you to add to your morning routine. And it is going to be one of these things that when you first hear me explain it, you're probably going to think, why am I listening to this right now? Trust me, do not dismiss what I'm about to tell you just because the idea is simple. I think we make the mistake in life of believing that because our problems feel overwhelming or big that the solution has to be, and I am going to tell you. And then we will prove to you that adding a simple high five in the mirror to your morning routine will give you more confidence. It'll give you better focus. It'll give you more energy. And most importantly, it's a brand new habit that

Starting point is 00:30:10 silences that relentless critic in your head that is constantly beating you down. And the high five habits, very simple. All you're going to do is right after you brush your teeth every morning, put your toothbrush down, look at yourself in the mirror. Ironically, that's the hardest part for the majority of men and women who try this. And then after you've just looked at yourself in the mirror, I want you to raise your hand and give your reflection a high five, just like you would give to a teammate or a colleague or somebody that you love. I want you to give yourself that same gesture and something crazy will happen in your life in less than five days. Well, you'll have a dirtier mirror. You know, it's interesting that you say that. So many people ask questions about the handprints on the mirror. And, you know, so let's just get this right out of the way.

Starting point is 00:31:06 Do you have to touch the mirror? No. If you don't want to touch the mirror, you don't have to touch the mirror. You will still get the same neurological, chemical, physiological benefit from doing this without touching the mirror. That said, there's a lot of people that have OCD or that were worried about the mirror getting dirty. And it turns out that seeing a handprint on the mirror is an incredible trigger that reminds you to do this habit every morning. And so people tend to actually like the reminder on the mirror as well. To me, if you're going to high five something, you have to touch it. If you only,

Starting point is 00:31:51 it's, if you do an air high five, it's not really real. So I think you got it. I love that you said that. And let me, let me, let me explain something about that. What happens in life if somebody goes to high five you and they miss or it's like a really lame high five. You do it again. Correct. Because a high five has a particular intention behind it that is programmed into your mind already. And this is why this simple habit of high fiving the mirror every morning packs such a powerful neurological and psychological and physiological punch. And why is that?

Starting point is 00:32:27 Well, what's so special about high-fiving someone? When you go and high-five somebody, whether it's a teammate, whether it's a marathon runner, whether it's somebody at a birthday party, whether it's somebody at the gym, what are you saying with that high-five? It's kind of a, I'm with you. It's a bond. It's a, we're, we get it. Yeah, I see you. I'm here with you. You got this. Shake it off. Keep going. Good job. You have never high five somebody and thought, I hate you. I hope you lose. Today's going to be a terrible day. Well, let's hope not.

Starting point is 00:33:11 Never. And this is why this little gesture of high-fiving yourself in the mirror and adding it to your morning routine is profound. What you're doing is you're taking a lifetime of positive neural association that you already have in your subconscious mind associated with a high five, and you are aiming it back at yourself. And when you receive a high five in life, you always feel this transfer of energy. You feel this kind of mood-lifting experience. Well, there's a neurological reason for that. The reason is, is because your own brain, when you receive a high five, your own brain releases dopamine. Your brain does not know the difference between your friend at the gym high-fiving you, or you looking at yourself in the mirror and high-fiving yourself. And so you give yourself

Starting point is 00:34:06 the exact same neurological, physiological, and psychological benefit by adding this to your morning routine. So step number one, just looking at yourself in the mirror, 50% of men and women cannot or will not look at themselves in the mirror because they are either disgusted with where they're at or they're ashamed of where they're at in life. And this habit of not looking at yourself in the mirror is a habit of self-rejection. If you want to know why you're hard on yourself, if you want to know why you can't stop the beat down in your mind, if you want to know why you're constantly looking at what you don't like about what you're doing or what you didn't do right, instead of focusing on all the small

Starting point is 00:34:49 little things that you do correctly, it all begins right here in the morning when you're standing at your bathroom sink with how you treat yourself in the mirror. If you can't look at yourself, that's a habit of self-rejection, and you carry and repeat that throughout the rest of your day. If you look at yourself and you pick yourself apart, which is what 91% of men and women do, we focus on what we don't like, that's also a habit of self-rejection. And you carry that into your day. One of the reasons why people struggle profoundly with people-pleasing. One of the reasons why people seek validation from their bank accounts, from the number on the scale, from other people is because they begin their days every morning with a habit of tearing themselves down. And I'm here to tell you, based on two years

Starting point is 00:35:36 of research and the results of hundreds of thousands of people in 91 countries, I can tell you unequivocally, backed by the world's leading scientists and neuroscientists, that simply raising your hand and high-fiving yourself in the mirror interrupts the pattern of self-rejection and self-criticism. More importantly, it overrides it and programs in a new habit, a habit of self-acceptance, a habit of self-worth, a habit of self-validation, and this builds and builds and builds. And there's a couple key components to why something so simple and on its face so dumb actually changes your neural pathways in your mind. Number one, when you go to raise your hand, you will think this is dumb. You will think, why on earth am I trying this? Oh, come on.

Starting point is 00:36:29 You know, like you'll have that thought for sure because you've never done this before. As your hand gets closer to the mirror, you're going to notice something really interesting. Your mind will go quiet. And the reason why your mind goes quiet is because your brain recognizes the high five. The high five itself is a trigger that causes your mind to now go into a whole set of programming. The first set of programming is it grabs the positive meaning of a high five. And as you go to high five yourself, your brain now, instead of going from, I got up too late, I got too much to do, I haven't walked the dog lap, I look like crap, the normal morning thought pattern that you have. Your brain

Starting point is 00:37:06 now grabs the high five attitude, which is, I see you. I believe in you. We got this. Come on now, pick your head up. It's going to be okay. All of that positive programming that's already in your brain gets triggered by the high five. That's number one. Number two, you get a drip of dopamine. You're immediately either going to laugh or you'll just kind of smile. You can't help it. That's the chemical in your brain getting released. And that's a really important thing because we know based on research that your mood in the morning impacts productivity and focus all day long. The third thing that happens is you're going to feel as you pull your hand away, a little like kind of jolt of energy. You'll feel like this flip, this switch flip. And what that

Starting point is 00:37:52 is, is that's your nervous system. Your nervous system is hardwired for kind of actions of celebration. So when you cross a finish line at the end of a race, what do you instinctively do? You know, you put your hands up and... Exactly. What do you do when your team scores? Yeah, put your hands up. What do you do when you wave hello to somebody? Same hand is going up. Correct. When you go and raise your hand, even on a really low morning, a morning where your to-do list is impossibly long. A morning where you're feeling weary because there's this new surge and there's this uncertainty. When you go to raise your hand up, something interesting happens.

Starting point is 00:38:34 Your mood lifts because of the dopamine. You give yourself this reassurance that is implied in the high five, that no matter what's happening in the world around you, that you have your own back. You're going to be okay. And you feel this little jolt of energy from the arms raising up and the nervous system recognizing the high five as a celebratory gesture. It's not the touching that is the transfer of energy. It's actually the arm raising and moving forward that is. That's what signals your nervous system. Now, this is not Mel Robbins making this up. This has been validated by Dr. Daniel Amen, by Dr. Caroline Leaf. Dr. Caroline Leaf is the neuroscientist who discovered neuroplasticity 30 years ago. Dr. Daniel Amen

Starting point is 00:39:16 is the world's leading expert on the brain. So there is real science here. And the bigger picture, because of this idea of adding a high five to the mirror every morning right after you brush your teeth as a brand new habit that you're going to practice, takes less than five seconds. There's tremendous scientific benefit. The reason why this is so important is because I'm on a mission to teach people that if you can break the habit of beating yourself up, if you can break the habit of relentlessly focusing on what's going wrong, and if you can replace it with habits of optimism, of kindness towards self, of encouragement, your whole life changes.

Starting point is 00:40:06 You know what I wonder is, if people do this, they probably are doing it because they're feeling a bit down and out and feel like they need a boost. But if and when they get that boost by doing this for a while, I wonder if people tend to like slack off because, well, things are going better now. I'm feeling better, so I don't need to do that anymore. It's a great question, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's true because we see that with just about every single kind of habit that people create. You start doing something that works, and then you stop doing it. It's one of the reasons why I recommend that you do it right after you brush your teeth, because I want you to stack this new habit with a habit that you're already doing. There's one more study, if you're interested,

Starting point is 00:40:55 that I'd be happy to explain that would certainly speak to, I think, your question, which is also, okay, this makes a lot of sense if I'm going through a tough time, but what if I'm winning? Yeah, right. And that's exactly the question. Yeah. So they did a study of NBA teams and they wanted to know, is there any kind of habit that a winning championship NBA team has that a losing NBA team doesn't? And is this habit something that you can see in the preseason? And the answer is yes. And what they found, as crazy as it sounds, is that winning NBA teams have more fist bumps, high fives, and pats on the back than any other team in the preseason. And the losing teams have the least number of fist bumps, pats on the backs, and high fives. And there's a reason why this matters. And that is?

Starting point is 00:41:53 The reason why it matters is because these are more than just gestures. The high five is a way to establish trust, partnership, optimism, and momentum. And when a winning team, whether it's at work, or it's in your family, or it's in the NBA, begins a season by high-fiving, fist-pumping, and patting on the back, this encouragement and this partnership is built from the beginning. And that's what carries you through. When you're not doing that, what they saw with the losing teams is that the players are more selfish, they're more negative, they're more focused on the mistakes. And that, of course, has a compound effect on how the team does at the end of the season. And so doesn't that imply that high-fiving and fist

Starting point is 00:42:42 bumping people, not just yourself, but other people would be beneficial as well? Oh, a thousand percent. And, you know, I can talk about the studies that were done at Google. I can talk about, you know, lots and lots of research around the power of encouragement. It's not tough love and being hard on people that actually motivates them. Feeling encouraged, feeling seen, feeling celebrated and supported is the secret to motivating other people. One of the reasons why, though, I focus so much in this research around the high five habit is because a lot of us are really good at supporting other people, but we fall miserably short when it comes to seeing ourselves as a person that's worthy of celebration or support.

Starting point is 00:43:28 It almost seems too easy, too simple. Like there must, there's got to be more to this than just high-fiving yourself in the mirror. But you say no. You know, I said at the very beginning, please don't dismiss what I'm about to tell you just because the idea is simple. I think oftentimes the answers to some of the idea is simple. I think oftentimes the answers to some of the biggest things are right under our nose. And it's our cynicism and our belief that it's got to be hard in order to be profound, or it's got to be complicated in order for it to work. And what I've seen in the 10 years that I've dedicated to helping people and trying to

Starting point is 00:44:06 help myself be a better person, not something that's been very easy, is that if something's complicated, you won't do it. If it's simple, you can do it. And it's only through action that you're going to change anything. And so I say the simpler it is, the more effective it's going to be because it's probably going to be easier for you to remember and easier for you to stick into what is probably already a very big life, very overwhelming day. And so if we can give you something to do and to try that will break old habits and will leverage science to

Starting point is 00:44:46 your advantage. I mean, yeah, if not doing it's working, don't even try it. But if you're looking to find something simple that will make you feel a little bit more optimistic, a little bit more energized, a little bit more capable, a little less alone. Based on everything I've seen, this is pretty darn powerful. I wonder too, if there's a bit of the placebo effect in here in the sense that, you know, if you do this and you want it to work, it works because you're thinking it'll work, that there is some, you know what I mean? I mean, I would think so, but I think, honestly, most people don't think it's going to work. And that's why this has been a wild experiment. Just to give you two examples, or I can give you three examples that are kind of

Starting point is 00:45:35 profound. You know, there was a woman that wrote to us that tried this for five days in a row. That's all I'm asking. Just five lousy days, wake up, put your toothbrush down, high five yourself. She hadn't looked herself in the mirror in 20 years. She struggles with depression, body dysmorphia. And she said it took less than three days for her to turn her head and look in the eyes. And she said, because she had to fight it because the programming's already there with a high five and she could look other people in the eye. And by day five, she was smiling at herself, something she hadn't done in 20 years. Another woman who wrote to us from a domestic violence shelter, she had just escaped a very abusive relationship. And she wrote about the fact that she had had some significant childhood trauma. And she said

Starting point is 00:46:21 that she had found the high five habit, you know, on a YouTube video on online and had started implementing it. And she said, look, I know that this isn't going to change the fact that I have a very, very long road ahead of me to rebuild my life and to heal all this trauma. But what this is showing me is that even though I've lost everything, I still have myself. And the third example I'll give you is of a guy that wrote to us. He had a huge sales presentation and he went into work. He'd been working on the sales presentation and gave the presentation. He wasn't even in a hybrid environment. He was actually in front of people and nobody said anything. I mean, I don't know if you've ever been in that situation, but holy cow, when you present and it's crickets, that is the worst. And he said he left and he would have normally gone back to his office and just assumed he

Starting point is 00:47:22 was about to get fired. And instead, he walked into the men's bathroom, looked himself in the eye, and gave himself a high five. And he said that one high five shifted his entire afternoon because he gave himself the validation that he needed. And he hadn't done a bad job, it turned out. People were just processing because he had offered up so many opportunities. That's the feedback that he got back the next day. So these are small examples of how this simple new habit utilized anywhere at any point in your day can be just the sort of mindset redirect and attitude redirect that you need in order to stay focused on what you want to achieve and also how you want to feel in your life. And just since now, maybe people think,

Starting point is 00:48:13 hey, you know, I'm willing to try this. Just run through the steps again. What do you do? Sure. So tomorrow morning, walk into the bathroom, do what you normally do. And as soon as you're done brushing your teeth, put the toothbrush down and then look at yourself in the mirror. That's it. You're just going to look at yourself in the mirror. And you may notice this is honestly the hardest part for most people. And it's really kind of sad why this is the hardest part. And this is again, based on all the research that we've done with folks around the world, hearing about their experiences. Most people drag their entire past into the bathroom every morning. And standing in between you and your reflection is all the things that you regret, where you are in life versus where you thought you would be, what you look like.

Starting point is 00:48:59 And there's a lot of judgment there. And a lot of people won't even look at themselves because of that judgment. And so don't be surprised if just standing there tomorrow morning and taking a look at yourself is harder than you think. Then the next thing you're going to do is you're just going to raise your hand and high five your reflection as if it were a person that you would normally high five. You're not going to say a positive mantra. You don't need to think anything. The action itself does everything for you. And that's it. That is it. That's all you're going to do. And as the saying goes, it doesn't hurt to try. I mean, if it resonates with you, if it seems like something that might help,

Starting point is 00:49:37 it does no harm and it could pay off big time. Mel Robbins has been my guest. She is an attorney, a speaker, and author of several books, her latest being The High Five Habit. And there's a link to that book and to her website in the show notes. Thanks, Mel. Thanks for explaining all this. Thanks, Mike. Really appreciate it. It's been a pleasure. The next time you're near a mirror, take a look at your earlobes, if you can, and see if you have horizontal creases in them. Because people who do could be at a higher risk of heart disease. It's one of the things that doctors often check when assessing your cardiovascular health.

Starting point is 00:50:19 In the largest study to date on this, about 11,000 Danish participants were followed for up to 35 years. All the participants were free of known coronary artery disease at the beginning of the study. The study found that having an earlobe crease was significantly associated with an increased risk of developing heart disease later on. And while there are theories as to why, no one is really certain what the connection is. If you do have horizontal creases in one or both of your earlobes, don't panic. It's just an indicator,

Starting point is 00:50:57 and it gives your doctor more incentive to monitor other risk factors more closely. And that is something you should know. Telling other people about this podcast and suggesting they listen gets us more listeners. And we know it works. In fact, we recently had a big bump up in the number of listeners who listen on Spotify because somebody must have told somebody. So please help support this podcast and tell a friend to give it a listen.

Starting point is 00:51:25 I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent VB Loro, who has been investigating a local church

Starting point is 00:51:56 for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. Look for The Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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