Something You Should Know - How to Deal with People Who Drive You Crazy & How Colors Affect Your Behavior

Episode Date: March 5, 2020

Yawning is contagious. We have all experienced that. What’s interesting though is when you notice how soon someone yawns after you do. This episode begins with an explanation of why some people might yawn right away while others might not yawn for a few minutes after your yawn – and what that means. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4137654/ The world is full of irrational people and they can drive you crazy. Since we all have to deal with these people it would be helpful to get some effective strategies. Here with some really good one is Dr. Mark Goulston. Mark is a psychiatrist and author of several books including Talking to Crazy: How to Deal with the Irrational & Impossible People in Your Life (https://amzn.to/2HYz2oL).  Mark is also the host of the podcast My Wake Up Call and his website is www.markgoulston.com. You can access the podcast from his website. The next time you are in a bad mood, you might want to head to the kitchen. Not to eat but to do something else that has been shown to really lift people up when they are feeling down. Listen as I explain what it is and why it works. https://bit.ly/2VuERSW You have probably heard and most likely experienced that colors can affect your mood as well as your behavior. Why? Is it conditioning or is it biological and how does it work exactly? Joining me to explain is Brit Garner a PhD student who has a YouTube channel all about science called Nature League https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjkUQ-_fGADyBYrIWviibmg. I think you’ll find what she has to say about color quite fascinating.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As a listener to Something You Should Know, I can only assume that you are someone who likes to learn about new and interesting things and bring more knowledge to work for you in your everyday life. I mean, that's kind of what Something You Should Know was all about. And so I want to invite you to listen to another podcast called TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done TED Talks. Well, you see, TED Talks Daily is a podcast that brings you a new TED Talk every weekday in less than 15 minutes. Join host Elise Hu.

She goes beyond the headlines so you can hear about the big ideas shaping our future. Learn about things like sustainable fashion, embracing your entrepreneurial spirit, the future of robotics, and so much more. Like I said, if you like this podcast, Something You Should Know, I'm pretty sure you're going to like TED Talks Daily. And you get TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts. We'll be right back. any jerk. Most jerks act like jerks because they feel like the world has not treated them like they're important. What'll happen is you'll feel such a sense of mastery that you calm down this person who is enraged. You can actually have a pretty good conversation. Also when you're having a bad day the best thing may be to head to the kitchen

and the interesting and unusual ways color affect your behavior. We have seen some evidence in studies on poker chips. Players are more aggressive or more risk-taking when using red chips versus more likely to fold when using white or blue chips. All this today on Something You Should Know. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world,

looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman,

the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson, discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts something you should know fascinating intel the world's top experts and practical advice you can use in your life today something you should know with mike carothers if you are new to this podcast you probably noticed when you saw this podcast that there are a lot of episodes.

300 plus episodes of this podcast. There's actually more than that. It's just that Apple Podcasts and other platforms only allow you 300 episodes. So as we add more and more on top of that, the older episodes fall off. But there are a lot of episodes and they are pretty much evergreen. They're not dated or timely in any kind of significant way. And so I invite you to go back and listen to earlier episodes, but then, you know, to ask you to listen to 300 episodes,

maybe I could narrow it down a little bit for you. So I'll recommend one for you. It's episode 221, The Science of Personality, Why You Are Who You Are, and How to Make Changes That Stick. It's one of our most listened to episodes of all time, and I think you'll find it really interesting.

First up today, it turns out we all have a built-in like detector. It's a yawn. Yawns are contagious. And a study found that the sooner someone catches your yawn, the more connected they feel to you. If you'd like to test out this theory, here's how it works. The better you know someone, the sooner they'll catch your yawn. Family members usually react within a minute. A good friend, probably within two minutes.

Casual acquaintances should return your yawn within a three-minute window. If someone you're not already connected to reacts to your yawn, in other words, they yawn back, there's a good chance that they are really tuned in to you, and you're probably very compatible. If you strike out with your test subjects and you can't evoke a yawn, there's still hope. It could be a sign that the two of you just need to spend a little more quality time together, because once you're in sync, the yawning will ensue. And that is something you should know.

There are times in your life when you have to deal with irrational people. Some of these people you may know, some may be strangers, but what they have in common is that dealing with them is incredibly frustrating. They drive you nuts, and they can bring out the worst in you. So maybe there are some techniques you can try that will make your interactions with these people less crazy-making and perhaps turn those discussions into pleasant and even productive conversations. Here to discuss this is Dr. Mark Goulston.

Mark is a psychiatrist who's written several books, one of which is called Talking to Crazy. He's also the host of a podcast called My Wake-Up Call, which is Mark talking very intimately with some very impressive people like Larry King and Patrick Dempsey, and also a lot of the people he talks to are people who have been guests here, but the conversations are very different. Again, the podcast is called My Wake-Up Call.

Hi, Mark. Welcome. Well, it's good to be on, Mike. I was looking forward to this, and I hope I deliver the goods. I'm sure you will. So when we talk about these crazy-making people, these irrational people that are so difficult to deal with, who are they and why are they irrational? I want to be clear. It's not about mental illness. I took a lot of heat from the psychiatric and psychological communities. They'd say, how can you write a book called Talking to Crazy? And I say, well, it's about people who drive us crazy.

It's not about mental illness. And you don't have to look very far to think about who's driving you crazy. Well, sure. I mean, everybody has those people in their life that drive them crazy. But it's also people that you just run into that you don't know. You know, customer service people are people who, for whatever reason, seem to enjoy making you nuts. And it would be great to have like a technique or two to be able to pull out of the quiver to better deal with those people so things go better. Here's a magical tip.

If you're listening in. You can use this. It's what I refer to as the FUD crud technique. And FUD crud is just so that you'll remember. So I'd like you to imagine this, that you're getting into an argument with someone. And they're venting. And there's a point at which you let them vent as opposed to escalating. But instead of looking at them like a deer in the headlights of a car, you look at them and you're allowing them to punch themselves out.

And then after they finish venting, instead of you telling them they have to calm down or talk rationally, you pause for two seconds because that will show them that they didn't provoke you, they didn't knock you off your balance and you're centered. Here's where you apply the FUD crud technique and you say to them, you know, you sound frustrated and I think you're holding back. They're going to go, what? Yeah, you sound frustrated and I think you're holding back because I think you're holding back. They're going to go, what? Yeah, you sound frustrated and I think you're

holding back because I think you're also upset and disappointed too. So could you tell me what you're frustrated, upset, and disappointed about and see what we can do about it. It's magical, Mike, because people will talk about what they're frustrated about. But if you say you seem upset, it sounds like you're scolding them or provoking them. You seem upset. I'm not upset. But if you say you seem frustrated and you're holding back, and then you look at their face, it's a magical Zen master move. And then what you really want to do is get them to talk what they're frustrated about until they unload that. And then you can say, okay, I can understand why that's frustrating you. And now what about it upsets you?

And then you let them talk that all the way up. But the way you flip everything is once they talk out their frustration and their upset, you could say, you know, I'm guessing you're disappointed too. Disappointed in me, disappointed in you, disappointed in the situation. What's that about? And what'll happen is they will be much calmer because you've enabled them to get stuff off their chest with the frustration and the upset.

And you might be able to then have a calm discussion with them. But you don't want to ruin it by once they tell you what they're disappointed about, you start jamming things down their throat. What'll happen is you'll feel such a sense of mastery that you calm down this person who was enraged, that you can actually have a pretty good conversation. Sometimes though, it seems that you get sucked into these things before you know it, and it's like almost too late to undo it.

Can you spot these people ahead? Are there telltale signs to look for? Oh, totally. So if you're listening in, here's a simple exercise. Take out a piece of paper. Nobody's ever going to see it. Put a line down the middle of the piece of paper on the left side. Write down the names or situations of people that inspire you, that give you energy, that you say, you know, I got to be more in touch with them.

I need to see them again because that was great. So write down all those names and situations. And on the right side, write down all those names and situations. And on the right side, write down all the names and situations that aggravate you, provoke you, and suck the life out of you. And you can tell those people because just the sound of their name, just getting a text from them, just getting an email, and you can recognize them because they only write in capital fonts. And so what happens is never expect those people on the right side of the page to not manipulate you into your anger so they can get the better of you. And so always hold a little bit of yourself back. And if you have a decent conversation with them, that's fine.

But always hold a little bit of yourself back because these are the people who tend to be manipulative. These are the people who tend to drive us crazy. And you have a story that illustrates this, and it's kind of a long story, but if we can get right to the meaty part of it as it applies to this. You were involved with the OJ trial, and you had a conversation with the defense attorney, F. Lee Bailey, who tried to basically drive you crazy. And so, explain what happened. So, imagine I'm looking into F. Lee Bailey's eyes. He's trying to push me into his rage, and I calmly look at him and I say, Mr. Bailey, my mind wandered the last five

minutes. Can you repeat everything you said? And he goes, what? I said, yeah, but you know, my car is locked in the parking lot and I don't know if I'm going to be able to get it out. And it sounded pretty important what you were saying. Could you repeat it all? And what happened is all difficult people, when they push, they try to push you into your rage and you're off balance, and when you're off balance, they pounce on you, if you can know that that's what they're going to do, and this can be the bullies or the whiners, and if you just look them in the eye, let them say that, and you say, you know, my mind wandered the last few minutes, can you repeat everything you said?

And then you watch their reaction. They don't know what to do. Because what they've tried to do is manipulate you into being off balance. And then when you're off balance, they pounce on you. You know, and I have used that technique. I remember you telling me that technique several years ago when we spoke, and I've used it several times. And it's really effective because people don't know, they don't know what to do. Now they've got, oh, well, what did I say in the last five minutes? What did he not hear?

And now they're off balance, and it's a very effective technique in that it just disarms them. It disables them so you can maybe have a real conversation. But sometimes it's people that we don't know. It's the customer service people or the clerk at the store or whoever it is. It's just people you run into that can also drive you crazy. And so what about dealing with them? A good friend of mine, and I'm blocking on his name, has the best attitude in life that I've ever seen. And I said, where'd you get that from? He said, I always assume innocence.

And if someone in customer service is giving me a hard time, I assume that someone's on their back, that they're not doing enough calls, that they're not doing such and such. And so if you can assume innocence and assume that most of the people in the world are doing the best they can, and just picture that. Just picture that someone just bullied them or told them a boss just criticized them and they're taking it out on you. Or maybe that happened at home. Maybe their spouse

or their kids were kicking it at them and they're taking it out on you. Or maybe that happened at home. Maybe their spouse or their kids were kicking it at them and they're taking it out on you. Just assuming that can calm you down. And you can have a different conversation. Yeah, because it's so easy since you're never going to see these people again. And you just, you're in the moment that you want what you want. It's very easy to get upset, which seldom works. That's totally true. And can I shoehorn in an incident I had with a customer service person

where I went from a frustrated person who didn't know what they were talking about to asking them for their supervisor's name so that I could send the supervisor a complimentary statement about them. Yeah, well, that sounds like a story worth listening to. But first, let me just say, my guest is Dr. Mark Goulston. He is a psychiatrist. He's author of several books, one of which is called Talking to Crazy. And he's also the host of the podcast called My Wake-Up Call. Hi, this is Rob Benedict. And I am Richard Spate. We were both on a little show you might know called Supernatural.

It had a pretty good run, 15 seasons, 327 episodes. And though we have seen, of course, every episode many times, we figured, hey, now that we're wrapped, let's watch it all again. And we can't do that alone. So we're inviting the cast and crew that made the show along for the ride. We've got writers, producers, composers, directors, and we'll

of course have some actors on as well, including some certain guys that played some certain pretty iconic brothers. It was kind of a little bit of a left field choice in the best way possible. The note from Kripke was, he's great, we love him, but we're looking for like a really intelligent Duchovny type. With 15 seasons to

explore, it's going to be the road trip of several lifetimes. So please join us and subscribe to Supernatural then and now. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like something you should know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation.

And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes. Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back, and in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed, critical thinker. Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. So Mark, you were going to tell us a story. So every day, whenever I am being served by a name-tagged faceless person, who's normally you treat like an appliance or a function, after they take care of me, I say, you know, I say, Joan, thank you.

My name's Mark. I have a question for you. No, you didn't do anything wrong. What made you smile today? And it changes everything. So I did that with a customer service person, you know, after I realized I was getting frustrated and they were doing the best with me. And it was Arul in India. And at the end of it, and we didn't even talk, we were just typing. I said, Arul, you know, because I had calmed down because we fixed the problem. And I said, Arul, are you a robot or are you a person?

And Arul said, I'm a person. And he said, is there anything else, sir? And I said, I have a question to ask you. And as he typed back, I could tell he was nervous. And I said, Arul, what made you smile today? And he types back, Mike, it's my birthday. And I say, that's amazing, Arul. What are you going to do? He says, well, I got off in a couple hours and my family's going to take me out.

I said, anything special? And we had about two or three paragraphs. And what happened is I so liked going from frustrated and angry to making this guy's day. He has never gotten that kind of conversation in customer service ever. And I like being able to get the anger off my chest. That's when I said, you know, give me your supervisor's email because I'm going to tell him how you were patient with a frustrated customer like me. And I felt great afterwards, Mike.

But you seem to be like one of these guys that's really good at staying calm and disconnected. And a lot of people would say, look, I'm sorry. My trigger is a lot different. My fuse is a lot shorter than yours. Somebody provokes me. We're going to go. Well, what I would say to them and you, Mike, I'd say, how's that working for you? Yeah, I can see in the short term why I like not letting anyone take advantage of me.

But in the long run, what it often causes is people tend to be wary of you. They're afraid to trigger you. They see that you have a short fuse. And when I ask people like that, and this has nothing to do with you, I'd say, how emotionally close are you with the people you care about? How much do you open up? How much do they turn to you? Or do they just turn to your spouse and you have no connection with them? And what happens is then they become like a deer in the headlights and they say, how did you know that about my life?

And I say, well, what do you want? The point is, you can change it if you want to, you don't have to. It depends on, you know, what you want to do. And, and to me, you know, life is too short to have a, for me, to have a chip on my shoulder. And I have to work on it because, you know, I come from a family where there is more than a few chips. Well, it's interesting that that really this comes down to a real few couple of techniques that that really are disarming and in a nice way and and can really if you i imagine practice makes perfect but but if you try it would be very helpful in calming people down and having a better conversation. Yeah, I'll tell you, I can't mention this person, but I went to a big event and I met this, where you bring your families, and I met this guy who had been in the public eye

and I, you know, and I was talking to him and I said, oh, I noticed that you're here with your wife and your kids. How's that going? Because I know how it's going. You know, he gets to be the big shot and she's got to manage the kids. And I could even pick that up. And I say, you ever get into any little tiffs, you know, back in the hotel room? He's looking at me. How do you know this stuff? And so I gave him the FUD crud thing. I said, if you get into one of those things, you might want to try this with your spouse.

And he was like listening closely. Then I see him the next day at this conference. And he says, well, I had a chance to use the FUD crud. I said, what happened? And he looked at me and he said, we had the best conversation we have had in 10 years. There are times, though, when you're going to deal with somebody who's being a jerk and you know, you can try to disarm them and use your techniques, but they may not work. You know, a jerk's a jerk. And so then what do you do? Well, there are, look, there are dyed in the wool

jerks, but there are jerks who are that way because inside they feel that the world has done them wrong and you just have to give them a taste of doing them wrong and they come at you. I'll tell you another technique that is magical. Most jerks act like jerks because they feel like the world has not treated them like they're important. They've treated them like they're insignificant. So another technique you can say to someone is you can say, what you said is much too important for me to get wrong. So let me repeat back to you exactly what you said because it's too important for me to get wrong. And that technique is when you then repeat back exactly what they said without any emotion, it calms them down because they have to then listen to you. And they're going to listen to you because you're telling them back what they said to you and you gave them the compliment of saying it's important.

Doesn't it make sense that most jerks feel as if the world has treated them like they're unimportant, they're insignificant. And if you could give them the, if you can flatter them, and you're not saying they're important, you're saying this is, and what they said is really important to them. It's not important to you. But there's all these kinds of things that we can do. I guess the point is, do you want to go out in the world trusting it, trusting the goodness, or always being on the lookout for the badness? Because that will inform how you are in the world. Do you have any other techniques or tactics or strategies to deal with irrational people?

Because they do come up in life so often. Any other ways of handling them or communicating with them that makes it go easier? There's something that you can do proactively. There's a distinction between being proactive and reactive. When you're proactive, you're much more positive. When you're reactive, you're much more positive. When you're reactive, you're much more negative. And there's something you can say to one of these people. Text them or you call them and you say, I need your help with something. And that's pretty disarming. And they're going to be curious. And what you say to them is, I need your help with something.

I'm dangerously close to wanting to avoid you at all costs. And I don't want to do that. Now, if it's a family member, you can say, you know, mom, dad, I'm dangerously close to wanting to avoid you at all costs. And I don't want to do that because you're my mom, you're my dad, you're my brother, you're my coworker. And the reason that I'm dangerously close to wanting to just avoid you at all costs is that when we have conversations and I say this, you say this. And if I say this, you say this, and it escalates and it exhausts me. And I'd like your help because if we don't do anything to change that, then you're never going to reach me. I'm going to come up with excuses. Oh, too busy. Got to get off the phone, I can't control my

reactivity wanting to get away and I'm just too exhausted. And you're my brother, you're my sister, you're my mom, you're my dad, you're my coworker. I don't want to do that going forward. That's what I call assertive humility. Well, I love strategies that you can use, and these are really good strategies. I've used that one so many times, and it is so powerful. Mark Goulston has been my guest. He is a psychiatrist. He has a podcast you ought to check out called My Wake-Up Call with Mark Goulston, and he's also written several books, one of which is Talking to Crazy.

You'll find a link to that book in the show notes and also a link to his personal website, MarkGoulston.com. Thank you, Mark. You made me smile today. Good. So long. Do you love Disney? Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial.

And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. There is nothing we don't cover. We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney-themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed, but you definitely need in your life. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. Then we have But Am I Wrong, which is for the listeners that didn't take our advice. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events. Then tune in to see you next Tuesday for our listener poll results from But Am I Wrong. And finally, wrap up your week with Fisting Friday, where we catch up and talk all things pop culture. Listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday.

You have probably heard that color can affect your mood and even your behavior. Can it really? Can some colors actually calm you down and other colors make you more energetic? Does wearing a certain color give you more authority? Is this real science or is this just some pop psychology theory? Well, let's find out with my guest Britt Garner. She is a PhD student and she's got this wonderful YouTube channel that looks at science and makes science interesting and easy to understand. Her YouTube channel is called Nature League. Hey, Britt, welcome. Hey there, thanks for having me. You bet.

So it seems to me that this idea that a specific color could have a certain effect on you seems just a little far-fetched in the sense that there are so many different shades of color. So when you say, well, red does this, well, what shade of red? And the color has different intensities. And it would seem that different people would have different reactions to different colors, that you can't make a blanket statement that blue does this or red does that. What's your take on all this? Yeah, I think it's really good to ground ourselves when we think about the way humans interact with the environment and psychology. Think about non-human species and the potential

for over evolutionary time, you know, why would we respond to something like color? What is color? What could it possibly mean in terms of something as basic as, say, survival? And so if you look within the field of what would be called color psychology, the idea of how do different colors affect human behavior, there's been a lot of conflicting data throughout the years. But in reality, there's only a few things where we see true significance within color, and that is rooted in evolutionary explanations. think other people have heard this, that supposedly somebody did an experiment and discovered that when you put prisoners in a prison or a jail and you put them in a cell that's painted pink, that it has an almost immediate calming effect on everybody. So what's the story with that? The truth is that the methodology of that particular study wasn't quite right, particularly the way they set up, say, a control versus an experimental group. The issue is that when it's been replicated, groups have not found the same kind of changes in behavior. And when you look even further into it, you can see that there are differences in the way that a study is represented

and also how many things can change when we're talking about something like color, because color is so, so broad. But I have had the experience, and I'm sure you have, everybody has had the experience of walking into certain rooms that are painted a certain color and having a very calming feeling about it, that it calms you down. It just happens, right? It does. And so within this field of color psychology, I think while there is a lot of conflicting information, I think what we can say, at least right now, is that color and the way that humans respond to it both has a biological basis, but also a learned basis. So this idea of association, there are a lot of things, especially within marketing, that have given us connotations. Let's do an example like Valentine's Day. I'm going to walk down the grocery store aisles and there's going to be a lot of red. There are going to be hearts

in that kind of cartoon shape of a heart, not an anatomical heart, and they're going to be red or pink. And it's going to be things like, you know, get this for the person you love. And there's this huge connotation within that. And the interesting thing, though, is that this changes between cultures and in different regions of the world. If you just look at what people wear for their wedding day, for example, you can actually see definite differences. And so when you mention, oh yeah, we've all experienced that, certainly we have, but it can differ based on our experiences. And then it's looking like there's only a few, few small things

that actually have some, some scientific merit to them. In other words, things that are not conditioning, like we've been conditioned to associate red with Valentine's Day and love. There are some biological things, and what are those? We have seen, this is kind of neat, so maybe painting the prison walls didn't calm people down, but we have seen some evidence for behavior, again, associated more with testosterone, like aggression or kind of confidence in studies on poker chips and how players are either more aggressive or more risk-taking when using red chips versus more likely to fold when using white or blue chips. And why would that be? What's the explanation or the hypothesis for why that happens? I do believe this was a study done in the Netherlands, and their best kind of bet was

there is an idea of competitiveness, which comes from an increase in blood flow, right? Higher oxygenation, potentially more confidence. And then if you have someone seeing that, imagine that if you have a bunch of red chips, it's almost like the other players at the table see you with, you know, more oxygenated blood or more health or more vigor. And so potentially what's happening is they are taking you in as being more confident. We don't know for sure, but these are just the possibilities that have to do with biology and not necessarily something that we have learned to associate. You know what I also wonder is, not only do we learn to associate colors with certain emotions and behavior and feelings, but what happens when you put people in, say, a pink room and tell them, well, you're now in a pink room and, you know, pink has this ability to calm people down. Well, is the suggestion that pink has the ability to calm people down, does that actually help people calm down?

Oh, my gosh. So placebo effect, right, applies to just about everything. Our minds and our bodies are so intertwined because our brain is be calmer. This is a thing that does this. Therefore, I am able to, again, power of thought, power of mind, adjust reality. And we see this all the time with the placebo effect. I totally think you would most likely get it. And in fact, some of the issues with the original studies, some people have said, you know, it might have just been because they knew what you were doing. You know, if I came up to you now, I was like, hey, I want to know if this pink room makes you calmer. Will you step in there? You're probably going to be focused on powerful, that you should wear a red tie.

And that became kind of conventional wisdom. And I wonder if because everybody knew that if you were wearing a red tie, you were wearing a power tie and that made you more powerful, that in fact it did just because you'd heard that a red tie is a power tie. Oh, oh, absolutely. Because once again, this is kind of going into and we see it even more with marketing. Some interesting studies, and I think where this field is really headed because dollar bills is, you know, how can I use color to sell more things? And one thing that they keep finding when they start looking at buyers' behavior and then branding is that there's actually a higher satisfaction in the customer when the color of a product matches up to its perceived use. For example, a blue color being used for a product associated with water or for luxury items or things like status. So you mentioned a tie, perhaps a sports car, you know, that consumers seem to prefer red for those. And at least within America, right, there are absolutely differences in geography and culture. So I just want to give

that caveat. But it looks like there's actually less consumer satisfaction when those things don't match up when the conceived notion, whether that is a shared, you know, memory or tidbit or kind of cultural norm. Whatever it is, when it doesn't match up, consumers notice and they actually will wind up buying less of that thing. Similarly with something like Atmosphere. So Blue, having Blue stores, websites have consistently been rated as more relaxing. And within that comes actually the idea of trustworthiness. First of all, we talked about the shared experience and culture of,

as you're growing up, you're already seeing bottled water has blue. You know, the ocean is blue and these kinds of things have blue associated. But also think about, let's think biology and think back to what blue or darker things would mean. It's typically for a species like humans, we are awake during the day and sleep during the night. So something like the sun rising and those yellows and oranges typically confer a kind of idea of awakeness or energy or alertness, whereas something like blue or purples would be more of a sun setting or dusk or going into the evening. So maybe blue appears relaxing because there's something in us

that kind of has that internal clock of day and night. And then there's also just preference. For example, what is your favorite color? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, my knee-jerk reaction is to say blue, but so do most people, I think, say blue. But I don't really know that I have a favorite color. I mean, it really depends. You know, my favorite color car wouldn't necessarily be my favorite color wall. So I like all the colors. I don't dislike any of the colors, and I don't know that I have a favorite color, but sure, blue would be one. The majority of people, when interviewed, for whatever reason, respond blue. Blue is a favorite

color. So part of me also wonders wonders do people just like being around their favorite color you know right um but then but then this is all really conditioning right i mean you you learn to associate these things and and someone from another culture who doesn't associate blue with i'm not i don't know who wouldn't, but it really is conditioning. It is. And I think this is maybe a little bit more philosophical, but you living on earth and existing in a place that changes from light to dark daily with eyes that can see that, for those of us who can see, you know, that is a conditioning of itself. It's the environment doing it, but it's learning patterns, right? And then maybe it's more like kind of just pattern recognition that when I and oranges, whereas that relaxing calming with the blues and purples, you know, that's pretty much every human on Earth for the most part.

And same with the red, though, with different skin tones and colors, that response can be different as well. But I think there are a couple that are pretty consistent, but only because they have those biological instead of cultural roots. Well, and then on top of this whole discussion, you can lay in a whole other discussion because you can talk about a red sports car. Well, not any red sports car. There's lots of different kind of reds, and some reds would look really horrible as a sports car. Oh, totally. And this is one of the problems. If you want to look at just the literature that debunks color psychology, so many of the studies done in the 1900s have since been kind of thrown out or at least, you know, put kind of a stamp of on top of because there was only the consideration of this one component of color, which is hue. So that idea of is it red or green? But there are two other major components of color, one of which you could refer to as brightness, and then the other you could refer to as saturation or something called chroma.

And so we're dealing with an actual three-option kind of, if you imagine, sliding scales. There's so many knobs that we can move. And a lot of these earlier experiments simply didn't do that or they didn't control for that. And so you're absolutely right. The idea of red sports car, there's a lot of versions of red sports car. So you have summed this up. You have said, though, that there does seem to have certain colors do seem to have certain effects on pretty much everybody. Yes. Yes, there is definitely something about blue being not only a highly positive color in terms of like atmosphere, so a store or a website. But also, again, this idea of of red and what that means, honestly, when it comes to to sex, to sex appeal and sexual signaling and and confidence. And like we spoke about with poker and with assertiveness. What about, and you can see articles online about how companies test colors for logos

and test colors for products and packaging, that there must be something to this. Hasn't there been some definitive findings that certain colors have certain effects on people? findings that certain colors have certain effects on people. No, and I mean, there's a great review within the literature, marketing literature, where they basically just reviewed every major color research paper, and they saw what was the area, you know, was it advertising? Was it the atmosphere of the place? And they say what they were changing changing and they say their major findings. For example, the background color of a website affects perceived loading time. That's totally wild, right? And this was one of the earlier examples, 2004, and they just had, they looked

at saturation and they looked at the hue, so red, yellows, and blues, and then basically saw, you know, how long do you think that just took to load? And they saw that it was significant that perceived, you know, fastness, if you will, people thought that something was loading faster with a blue background, just because potentially it affected something like relaxation like we discussed that blue seems to have maybe something having to do with calming though again whether that's biology and nighttime or if it's simply conditioned within our products who's to say well i've always thought that color is so interesting for example like when you look at red and I look at the same thing that's red, are we actually seeing the same thing or do you see something entirely different than what I see?

And are there other colors that we can't even imagine that we're just unable to see? It's really interesting. My guest has been Britt Garner. She's a PhD student and she has this wonderful YouTube channel about science that I encourage you to go take a look at. If you go to YouTube and just look up Nature League and you will see her YouTube channel. And there's a link to her YouTube channel in the show notes. Thank you for being here, Britt. Thanks so much for having me on. This is a fascinating topic and I hope people have more questions and are looking forward to learning more. The next time you're in a lousy mood, the best way to break out of it may be to head to the kitchen and bake something.

According to a study published in the Journal of Positive Psychology, researchers reviewed the diaries of 658 university students who were asked to keep a record of their daily activities and emotional states over 13 days. After analyzing the diaries, researchers found that in the days following creative activities like cooking, participants reported higher levels of enthusiasm and flourishing. And flourishing is a psychological term that refers to increased personal growth within oneself. As well as things like painting, knitting, and creative writing, being busy in the kitchen was found to be a means of cultivating positive psychological functioning. So what is it about cooking, though? found to be a means of cultivating positive psychological functioning.

So what is it about cooking, though? Well, cooking and baking are often used as forms of behavioral therapy to help improve mental health. Anecdotally, measuring out ingredients and following a recipe has also been found to alleviate disorders like ADHD and reduce anxiety. But of course, the obvious benefit above and beyond getting out of your lousy mood to alleviate disorders like ADHD and reduce anxiety. But of course, the obvious benefit, above and beyond getting out of your lousy mood, is that now you've got a cake or cookies or brownies to eat.

So it's all good. And that is something you should know. You can help us grow this podcast by just spreading the word. Tell a friend. Share this episode with someone you know. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group.

Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. To be continued... that ours is not a loving God, and we are not its favoured children. The Heresies of Rudolf Bantwine, wherever podcasts are available.