Something You Should Know - How to Dramatically Increase Your Willpower & The Fascinating Ways Time Affects Food

Episode Date: July 8, 2019

People are not getting sick and dying like they used to. The number of cases of some very common diseases have dropped dramatically over the last few decades and you’ll never guess why. Listen and find out as this episode begins with an explanation – sort of. http://www.popsci.com/many-diseases-are-declining-and-doctors-arent-sure-why Do you ever wish you had more willpower? It does seem that some people have a lot more of it than others. Psychologist Kelly McGonigal says you probably have more of it than you think and you can create more of it. Kelly is a lecturer at Stanford University and author of the book The Willpower Instinct: How Self-Control Works, Why It Matters, and What You Can Do to Get More (https://amzn.to/2JqGQ35). She joins me to explain how willpower works and how you can have more of it.  When was the last time you washed your credit cards? Never right? Well your credit cards are one of many things crawling with germs you probably never think to clean. Listen to discover what else in your home might need a little disinfectant sooner than later. http://www.fitandfabliving.com/health/health-trends/6435-seven-surprisingly-dirtysurfaces You may not think about it much but one very important ingredient in everything you eat or drink is – time! Too much time can ruin a lot of food yet some food gets better and better the longer you leave it alone. Food writer Jenny Linford, author of the book The Missing Ingredient: The Curious Role of Time in Food and Flavor (https://amzn.to/2XuHGWy) joins me with a fascinating explanation on how time matters in almost anything you eat or drink.  This Weeks Sponsors -Quip Toothbrush. Get your first refill pack free. Go to www.GetQuip.com/something -Capterra. To find the best software solutions for your business for free, go to www.Capterra.com/something Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As a listener to Something You Should Know, I can only assume that you are someone who likes to learn about new and interesting things and bring more knowledge to work for you in your everyday life. I mean, that's kind of what Something You Should Know was all about. And so I want to invite you to listen to another podcast called TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done TED Talks. Well, you see, TED Talks Daily is a podcast that brings you a new TED Talk every weekday in less than 15 minutes. Join host Elise Hu.

She goes beyond the headlines so you can hear about the big ideas shaping our future. Learn about things like sustainable fashion, embracing your entrepreneurial spirit, the future of robotics, and so much more. Like I said, if you like this podcast, Something You Should Know, I'm pretty sure you're going to like TED Talks Daily. And you get TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts. Today on Something You Should Know, people aren't getting sick and dying like they used to. We'll be right back. out at other people and assume that they have this amazing strength that we lack. And what I've actually found in working with people on Willpower Challenges is that all of us, when we find a goal that's really important to us, we all have these strengths. Plus, why you need to wash your credit cards. And the amazing way time affects food. Like why a lot of Italian food actually tastes

better the next day. You know, as they sit there, all those ingredients, they sort of rub up against each other, and things will sort of mellow and soften. I talk to people like chocolate makers, and they told me that, you know, even freshly made chocolate, compared to chocolate they made and then left and came back to, it would change flavor, and it would have mellowed. All this today on Something You Should Know. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast.

And I tell people, if you like Something You Should Know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control

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The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome to Something You Should Know. And we start today with some really good news. And here it is. People are not getting sick as much as they used to. The weird thing is, though, no one's really sure why.

A host of age-related diseases are diminishing in wealthy countries, and it can't be entirely explained by advances in treatment, screening, or diagnostics, according to the New York Times. For example, about half as many people are dying from colon cancer now as during its peak in the 1980s, according to a paper in the New England Journal of Medicine. Rates of heart disease, dementia, hip fractures are all decreasing as well, and people are remaining in good health longer. So whatever it is you're doing, you should keep it up and do more of it. The problem is, we don't know what it is. And that is something you should know.

How many times have you said to yourself, I wish I had more willpower? It's pretty common, I suspect. We all struggle with wanting to do something or stop doing something that's really, really hard to do. Well, Kelly McGonigal is a psychologist and lecturer at Stanford University and author of the book, The Willpower Instinct, how self-control works, why it matters, and what you can do to get more of it. And I don't know anybody who knows more about willpower than she does. And she's here to shed some light on this very important topic. Hi, Kelly. Thanks for having me. So what is willpower? I define willpower

as the ability to do what matters most to you, even when it's difficult, or especially when some part of you wants to do something else. So like, when you think about the word willpower, what's something that challenges you? What would you say you need to use willpower for? I need willpower, I think, for a lot of things. But the biggest challenge I find is perhaps late at night when, you know, there's something in the kitchen, a piece of pie I could go eat that I probably know I shouldn't. And if it were in the morning, I wouldn't do it. But in the evening, I don't seem to have as much in the morning, I wouldn't do it. But in the evening, I don't seem to have as much willpower and I'm more likely to cave.

That is such a great example for a couple of reasons. One, you have perfectly described, I think, the central challenge of willpower, which is that there are a lot of things in life where there's one part of us that wants one thing and another part of us that wants something else. So maybe in this case, when you're in the kitchen, there's a part of you who wants health, longevity, vitality, whatever it is that's making you think you shouldn't have that extra piece of cake or dessert. And then there's another part of you that thinks it's going to taste really good right now. And maybe you're feeling a little low on energy and you want a little pick me up and it's just calling your name. And there's this competition of selves, the two parts of yourself. And one way to think about willpower is it's the ability to remember what that sort of

long-term self or wiser self wants so that you're not constantly giving into immediate gratification. But the other thing you said that's so, I think, important for people to realize is, you know, willpower is not a fixed thing. It's not the case that if you have a lot of willpower, you always have a lot of willpower, like it's a personality trait. It actually is more like an energy or strength that we draw on. And it is the case, as you described, that when we're tired, when we haven't had enough sleep, when our blood sugar is low, or when we're feeling really stressed out, we often have less access to our willpower, and we're more likely to give in to immediate gratification. And when I do that, and I think when most people do

that, you know, the test of failing willpower is the next day, you think to yourself, yeah, geez, I really wish I hadn't. Yes. And you know, that actually is a great moment to reinforce your willpower. So, you know, when we think about what willpower is, we're often thinking of that I won't power, the part of you who maybe the night before should have said no and closed the refrigerator door. And that's just one part of willpower, the ability to not give in to temptation. But we often don't talk about this other aspect of willpower that I call I want power. And that's the ability to be

really clear about what it is you care about, what's most important to you. And when you're really clear about that, it actually makes it easier when you're faced with that choice, that moment of temptation or that moment of anxiety or dread to find the courage or the strength to make the choice that's consistent with your biggest goals, your most important values. Is willpower, do you think, a virtue? And what I mean by that is, for example, when you look at like world-class athletes who train like crazy and they deny themselves a lot of things to get their body to look like that and to perform like that. And I don't think I have that. I don't think I can do that. And is what they have a virtue that just some people have and some people don't? You know, one thing that's really important is not look out at other people and assume that they

have this amazing strength that we lack. Often when we look at athletes, yeah, they might have amazing willpower because a certain goal is really important to them. And you'll see that in some aspects of their life, like in training or in diet. But it may be the case that in other aspects of their life, they're falling apart a little bit. You know, maybe they're having affairs or they're gambling or they're struggling with drugs and alcohol. And what I've actually found in working with people on willpower challenges over the years is that all of us, when we find a goal that's really important to us, we all have these strengths, the ability to resist temptation, to put our energy toward what matters most to us.

I call that the I will power. You know, we can find the I won't power to say no to the things that get in the way if we have a strong enough want power. And I would guess that if I were to analyze your life, I'd find something in your life where you're showing tremendous willpower because it's what matters most to you. And what matters most to you is not necessarily being a world-class athlete or sculpting the perfect body. I think it's a perception that people often have is when you see a world-class anybody, athlete, business person, actor, that they're so on top of their game in that, that they must be on top of their game in all elements of life.

But I always suspect that if you're so self-disciplined and self-controlled in one area, that your humanness has got to leak out somewhere else, that you can't be on top of your game in every aspect of your life. Yeah, I think that actually is the case, and you often see that. But there is a common idea in the science of willpower that willpower is a limited resource. It's a kind of a controversial idea right now, but I've actually found it quite helpful when people are thinking about making important changes in their lives to understand that if there's something that you're spending a lot of time and energy trying to control and you want to change something else in your life, you might

need to shift some of that control, some of that energy away from the other thing so that you can put your energy and attention toward what matters most right now. This idea that we could ever be perfect human beings who are controlling every thought, every action, every temptation. That's not really what willpower is about. I think that's why I define it as being able to choose what matters most. Well, I think that's really key to this discussion because so often I think when we think of willpower, we think in terms of being able to deny ourselves something. But what you're saying, if I hear you correctly, is that it's not just what you're not going to do,

but if you have something that you do want to do, it makes it easier. Exactly. And in fact, when we talk about willpower being a bit of a limited resource, it seems like the I won't power is actually more limited than our I will power. That is when we have a positive motivation and there's something that we want to chase, or there's a goal that we're, we're making progress toward that often is more motivating. We have more energy behind it than when we're constantly trying to say no to something. It's why often when people are trying to quit a bad habit, one of the pieces of advice you'll often hear is you have to find something to replace it with, or you have to be very clear about how when you say no to that cigarette,

what is it you're saying yes to? Is it being a good role model for your kids? Is it that you're saying yes to an extra year of your life? And you can make that kind of concrete link in your mind because like you said, just saying no all the time to something that seems like it might feel good right now, or might be easier right now, that can actually be exhausting. And we weren't born to have unlimited reserves to say no to immediate gratification or comfort. Well, there is that rationalizing that humans do of, you know, what's one more cigarette? What's one more piece of pie? I could skip the gym today. It's not going to make any difference. Yes, there are a lot of cognitive traps that we fall into

when we're trying to make a change or make progress on our goals. One of them is this idea we have that our future self is going to have more willpower than our current self. And it's actually, it's a funny psychological phenomenon. Researchers have found that if you ask people, how much free time do you think you'll have a few weeks in the future? How much energy do you think you'll have? How much self-control do you think you'll have? We idealize our future selves and we think that our future self is going to be able and willing to do something that is really hard for us right now. And that's one of the reasons why we say, well, just one more cigarette or drink today and tomorrow a fresh now. And that's one of the reasons why we say, well, just one more

cigarette or drink today and tomorrow a fresh start. And I always encourage people to take the smallest positive action that is possible for your present self. Because actually, one of the ways that we strengthen our willpower is by making very small choices that just ask us to flex one of our willpowers, to delay giving in for, say, five minutes, even if you end up giving in. We know from the science that that actually builds willpower like a muscle so that we're capable of actually doing more tomorrow. That's how we get a future self that actually is stronger. So you mean if you're craving that piece of pie, tell yourself, wait five minutes, just wait five minutes.

Yes. And you know, some people think that's a trick and you'll forget about it. But even if you eat it and you went through that delay of five minutes, here's what you have strengthened. So first of all, we know that if people even define a choice as a willpower challenge, it increases their chances that they will make a choice consistent with their bigger goals. And then if you actually get through those five minutes, you're doing something that researchers sometimes refer to as surfing the urge. It's the strategy of acknowledging in this moment, some part of me really wants to give in. And maybe you feel that desire, you feel that anxiety, you feel that impatience. And rather than trying to distract yourself and pretend like it's not happening,

you actually let yourself feel it, acknowledge it, and feel yourself saying no for 10 seconds, for 30 seconds, for a minute, for five minutes. And studies also show that when people go through that process, even if they give in at the end of three minutes or five minutes or 10 minutes, that the next time they go through that process, they can delay longer, or they actually end up delaying completely. And in fact, this technique that I just described, this like, notice the temptation and try to resist it while paying attention to it, it's been shown to be more effective for quitting smoking than actually nicotine replacement therapy. What about the idea, I think it's kind of conventional wisdom in trying to make a change or to do something like lose weight or whatever it is, that you can't deprive yourself forever.

And so that, you know, if you're a good six days out of the week, that the seventh day you can cheat kind of thing, that you have to have some reward for sticking to it. How does that work in this? A lot of times people identify with the part of themselves that really just wants the immediate relief or the immediate gratification. And that's when they can fall into this trap of trying to reward themselves for resisting. So, you know, if I ate a healthy breakfast, then I can reward myself with an unhealthy lunch because part of you is thinking like who I really am is the person who wants the unhealthy food. And so I have to express that part of myself in order to balance out the suppression or the repression of my true self that happened at breakfast when I ate something healthy.

And if we can get very clear about who we are and what our values are, it's less likely we're going to fall into that trap. You know, you only have to bribe yourself or reward yourself for being good if who you think you really are is bad. And I actually don't even like to use those moral terms. The other thing I will say is that, you know, it's also the case that when we engage in a behavior over time, it often becomes more intrinsically rewarding. Exercise is a perfect example of this. So is saving money or paying down your debt.

There are a lot of things that don't sound fun until you've been doing it for a while and you start to get better at it and you start to realize, I really like how I feel when I'm doing this and I really like how I feel after I've done it. And a lot of the things that we think of as, as being a chore that we have to endure because it's good for us, if they actually are good for us in the sense that they, they help us have more energy, more health, more happiness, they give us more control over our lives. If they really are good for us, they will feel good in the longterm. And so it's not the case that you're going to have to, for the rest of your life, try to bribe yourself to do the quote-unquote good thing.

Kelly McGonigal is here. She is a psychologist and lecturer at Stanford University and author of the book, The Willpower Instinct, How Self-Control Works, Why It Matters, and What You Can Do to Get More of It. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a co-founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network called The Search for the Silver Lightning,

a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. During her journey, Isla meets new friends, including King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table, and learns valuable life lessons with every quest, sword fight, and dragon ride. Positive and uplifting stories remind us all about the importance of kindness, friendship, honesty, and positivity. Join me and an all-star cast of actors, including Liam Neeson, Emily Blunt, Kristen Bell, Chris Hemsworth, among many others, in welcoming the Search for the Silver Lining podcast to the Go Kid Go Network by listening today.

Look for the Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool.

And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson, discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. So, Kelly, this may be just a complete rationalization people use, but the idea of willpower is basically,

in most of our minds, basically the ability to do something you don't want to do or to not do what you do want to do. I know, it's exactly the opposite of what I think willpower really is. And it's because, oh gosh, there's so many reasons why. It's part of our culture. You know, it's, it's part of how we were raised as children. Um, and I, I just wish if I could challenge one idea that people have about what willpower is, it's really to give people permission to understand that the reason we have willpower, the reason that your brain and body knows how to resist temptation, the reason that your brain can mount this defense against fear and anxiety that you need to overcome to have the courage to do something difficult,

the reason you have that is because we are equipped to pursue the things that are most important to our survival and most important to our happiness and our well-being. And that's what we have these strengths for. And we should, we should give ourselves permission to direct those strengths at the things that matter most to us. And if there's something you really don't want, it is such a waste of our strength and our energy to try to marshal all your willpower toward it. Whether it's, you know, trying to, trying to control your thoughts or trying to be someone you're not, or trying to control something that, as it turns out, is really hard to control, like your weight.

There are times when you can say, this is not working, and I'm going to put my energy and attention toward what I believe will truly enhance my life and allow me to contribute to the world. And that's what we have willpower for. But there are things that compete that like you may say, you know, I really want to be healthy, but God, if life wouldn't be, if I had to give up donuts, life would be horrible. So those two things are competing. Are they incompatible? Are they mutually exclusive? Well, let me take a very firm stand on this, that donuts are not incompatible with being a good person or having willpower or even having

good health. I will definitely always come down on the side of donuts. And here's the thing, when people are talking about having to use willpower to make a difficult change, it's never about one donut. One donut is not going to destroy your health or your happiness. But often in our lives, we find ourselves in patterns in, in habits that are creating more suffering than they are creating joy. You know, the people who most need to marshal their willpower toward food choices are actually the ones who, if you, if you take a look carefully, if they investigate their experience, maybe they'll find that they have a relationship with food that makes them feel worse about themselves, that is creating obvious

negative health consequences, that they're using food as a coping mechanism. And in those cases, the suffering is actually pretty clear. And that's different than do you celebrate your kid's birthday with a donut? And I think when I'm helping people figure out like what's a willpower challenge that I want to tackle, rather than having people start with the most obvious choices, the things we tend to set New Year's resolutions around, but to really ask people, what's something in your life right now that's creating suffering

that you think if you were to change it, that habit or that pattern, it would relieve some of the suffering in your own life? And what's something that would create more joy or more meaning? And to find your way towards the answer to that question. And that's why we need willpower around food, not because there's some sort of moral imperative never to enjoy yourself. Even with the best of intentions, even with a strategy in place, everybody who is trying to exert willpower will come face to face with some temptation that's going to be very, very hard to resist. And so what do you do in that moment? What do you do right then when it looks like it's a losing battle?

One of the things I often encourage people to do is to imagine that they already know the end of the story. And this can really support willpower, whether you need I won't power or I will power, to actually imagine yourself a year or 10 years in the future where you've resolved this challenge. You have made the change. And to have a clear vision of that. Because one of the things we know is that willpower as a strength or as an instinct in your brain and body, it's really about the future.

And if you have a positive vision of your future, your brain and body are more likely to shift into that biological state that helps you say no or that helps you find the energy to keep going. And so, you know, if someone were to tell me that they felt hopeless about past failures, I would say, create that vision of the positive future. And in a very non-woo-woo sort of non-woo-woo way, it's literally going to help the brain give you the resources and the strength you need the next time you try to quit or the next time you try to take positive action. And so how does willpower work best? Does willpower work best when you take little steps or does willpower work best when you try to dive into the deep end of the pool and just go for everything? What's the best strategy? Both. This is a wonderful yes and kind of answer that you can find evidence in the scientific literature for both of those strategies to take the smallest concrete steps, even if

they seem like they couldn't possibly add up to the outcome you want. There are plenty of studies showing that any positive action, any small step in the direction of your goal can actually become cumulative, can lead to an upward spiral toward change. And you should never be afraid to do something because it seems too small. You know, as I mentioned, there's, there was one study that showed that if you can delay your first cigarette of the day, even by a few minutes, that increases your chance of being able to quit. Now that's something that anyone can do. And you can sort of figure out what's your version of that. What's your version

of delaying the first cigarette of the day and knowing that that can lead to positive change. But also, you know, at the other end, there's some people who, when they get very clear about what they want, they know what their goal is, or they know what that value is, that making a bigger change helps them because it becomes sort of part of their identity. So if you're someone who feels like I need to go into this all out, I need to make this a core part of who I am, I would never want to discourage somebody from taking a bigger step toward change if it feels like that's what's possible in this moment. I mean, the real answer is you start where you are and you don't wait until tomorrow to start. But if you are to say, if you say to yourself, you know, I really want to get healthy. So tomorrow I'm going to start jogging twice a day. I'm going to, um, I'm going to go to the gym. I'm going to drink lots of water. I'm going to, I'm going to do all these 17 things starting

tomorrow and I'm going to do them every day. That seems like a prescription for failure. You know, it might be for 99 people, but I bet you there's one person listening to this who, um, could nail that because that's part of their core personality. There's some people who are just all in. But I think actually your central point is quite important, that sometimes we set these extreme goals of change because it feels so good in the moment to make that vow. We get this like hit of optimism and hope and dopamine when we say tomorrow is when everything changes and I'm a completely different person. And if you sense

that that's part of what's driving all of these resolutions to, to do the different things that you, that you listed, um, that's when I say, okay, maybe slow your roll a little bit, pull back and say, what's the one thing that you definitely can do tomorrow? And trust yourself that that can become part of this upward spiral of change. It doesn't all have to happen tomorrow in order to be of consequence. But there is that one listener I'm telling you, probably somebody heard it and they're going to do it tomorrow because they hear it and they say yes, and it's time. Well, you know, one of the things you've said that really resonates with me, because I kind of stumbled onto it myself, that really seems to work is this idea of when your willpower is waning, to force yourself to just wait five minutes. You know, don't eat the donut now.

Tell yourself you can eat it in five minutes if you really want to. And I find that that's a pretty effective way to postponing it because in five minutes you've had time to think about it, and you know what? Maybe you don't need it. But these are all really great suggestions. Kelly McGonigal has been my guest. She's a psychologist and lecturer at Stanford University, and her book is called The Willpower Instinct, How Self-Control Works, Why It Matters, and What You Can Do to Get More of It.

You'll find a link to that book in the show notes. Thanks, Kelly. Thanks, Mike. It's been a pleasure. Do you love Disney? Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle.

On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. There is nothing we don't cover. We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney-themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed, but you definitely need in your life. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone.

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every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. When you think about food, there is one ingredient in everything you eat that you usually don't think about very much, but it's a very important ingredient. It's the ingredient of time. Sometimes it's a lot of time, as in a fine wine or an aged cheese, where more time makes it better. And sometimes it's a very short amount of time, like in really good fresh corn on the cob, where time is the enemy. Time is an essential ingredient, and here to discuss how time and food dance together is Jenny Linford. Jenny's a food writer and the author of a couple of books, one of which is called The Missing Ingredient, The Curious Role of Time in Food

and Flavor. Hi, Jenny. Hello, lovely to be talking to you. It is interesting when you stop and think about how time plays a role in the food we eat and in different ways. It's important to have a lot of time for some things and very little time for other things. It is, you're absolutely right. And I think we really, you know, it is so interesting because they're different ends of the spectrum. You've got, you know, freshness, you know, think of the joy of a really fresh fish, or picking a pea and eating it, you know. And then equally, think of, you know, the value we give to aged foods and wines.

You know, we talk about vintage wines and, you know, rare old brandies and wonderful sort of Parmesan cheese. And so we really value what age does, too. You know, we value time. Right. So time is a friend and time is an enemy, depending on what you're talking about. You're absolutely right that, you know, time is the great enemy because time is the destroyer

of food. And actually, as human beings, we've been really, you know, we're an ingenious species, and we've developed ways of preserving food historically over centuries. You know, now in the 21st century, we're pretty lucky because we've got refrigeration and freezing. But historically, food had gone off. It was very perishable. And human beings sort of worked on how to preserve it. You know, they did things like they... And moisture is really key to a food deteriorating because a warm, moist atmosphere is what bacteria love. So if you've got a fresh bit of meat and it gets...

and it is moist naturally and then it gets hot, it's just going to go off really, really quickly because those bacteria will grow. That's the perfect condition. You know, hence, chilling allows those fresh foods that were very perishable, that are perishable, to be stored and kept for longer. So let's talk about how time is an ingredient in cooking from a cook's point of view in the kitchen.

You know, we're often under, we're time poor, you know, we're pressurized, things are in a hurry. And I sort of realized, actually, if you can just pause and slow down a little bit, certain cooking processes, if you just give them a bit more time, will be much more rewarding. And one of them was browning meat or even browning onions. But meat is an interesting example because when you brown foods, you create what's called the Maillard reaction,

which is a chemical reaction named after the chemist who discovered it. And this reaction, which literally, you know, you see something as you cook it and heat it, and it needs a certain level of, it needs to be hot. You know, it happens at temperatures over 100 degrees. You'll see that browning happening visually with your eyes. And that process is creating flavors that we really like, you know, umami, savory flavors in foods.

So, for example, suppose you're making a stew. You know, you've got your beef chopped up. And, you know, my advice from thinking of maximizing, using time really well here, first of all, I would take that beef out of the fridge half an hour before I cooked it, which would de-chill it. And the reason I've de-chilled it is that because it's warmer, it's actually going to fry rather than stew. If I put it in fridge cold, it will just release lots of liquid and just sort of stew, which is not really what you want.

You want to brown it because you want to make that flavorful sort of coating on the bits of meat. And if you ever watch a chef cook, you'll see, and they're doing this browning, you see how carefully they do it. And if you see how long they do it, you know, they'll do it for a good 15, 20 minutes. An experience I think most people have had with Italian food in particular is how things like lasagna and some spaghetti sauces, they're better the next day than they are the first day. The time somehow makes them better.

Do we know why? Well, I sort of think it is partly that the flavors soften. You know, you mentioned a lasagna and a ragu, which is classically made with tomatoes, and tomatoes are acidic. You know, as they sit there, all those ingredients, they sort of start to lose their harsh notes. You know, they sort of rub up against each other. And the sweetness of the tomato comes out, the acidity, you know, partly because you are, you know, little volatiles are evaporating off during that time period.

And things will sort of mellow and soften. I mean, it's just, it is fascinating. It works very well for any sort of braised dish, you know. It works in other cuisines too, like, you know, with an Indian curry. Often, you know, ideally you would make it ahead of time and sit and let it sit and develop flavours. I talk to people like chocolate makers and they told me that, you know, even chocolate, actually, you know, freshly made chocolate compared to chocolate they made and then left and came back to two months later, it would change flavor and it would have mellowed.

It's basically a sort of mellowing, a softening. Because I think it is just those volatiles, those harsh sort of aromas are dissipating and that allows you to then taste and discern other flavors in it. It's been pretty common for people to marinate meat thinking that something is going on in that time, that the meat is sitting in this marinade, whatever it is, and something's happening that makes it better. What's making it better?

Yeah, marinating is fascinating. And really, historically, there were two reasons for doing it. One was to add the flavor of the marinade. But also, very importantly, historically there were two reasons for doing it. One was to add the flavor of the marinades. But also very importantly, to tenderize. And so actually, if you look at marinades across different cultures, you'll notice they have a lot of, you know, usually they'll have an ingredient that's acidic in it. And that acid might be lemon juice or vinegar or wine. And the acid literally acts on meat and tough old meat. You know, so game animals

historically were often marinated for tenderizing, for a very good practical reason, to tenderize this animal that's been running around a lot and, you know, has got lots of muscles and toughness. So the acid in the marinade literally just starts to break down the cell structure in the meat and makes it tender. And so then that penetration that happens then allows the other ingredients in the marinade, let's say things like garlic or fresh herbs like rosemary or thyme, to penetrate, or spices you might be using, that will then get, you know, literally those little aromas will then penetrate into the meat and give it flavor. So that's your, you know, it's a very useful way of adding flavor and tenderizing meat. Talk about eggs.

As you point out that, you know, you can overcook an egg pretty easily and you can undercook an egg pretty easily. And fresh eggs react differently than not so fresh eggs. So talk about that. You know, one of the reasons why eggs are challenging to cook is that basically the yolk and the white have got different substances, and they behave differently because the white is predominantly made up of water, while the yolk, which is the food, you know,

for the embryo inside, if there was an embryo, it would be as rich and full of nutrition. So basically they require you know different cooking in a funny sort of way and one of the things i think is really interesting which people don't realize is actually the freshness of the egg is key to poached eggs so you know if you want a really nice poached egg that's set and firm you know however carefully you cook your egg and however you know carefully simmer your water and add a pinch of vinegar. What's key to that is not your cooking method, it's actually the egg itself.

It's that, you know, what you want is a really fresh egg. Because the fresh, as an egg ages, it changes texture. And the white becomes runnier because the protein in it begins to break down. And the yolk then gets water from the egg whites, so the yolk becomes thinner. Talk about coffee. And I know people and you say and other people say, oh, you've got to have really fresh beans and grind it just before you. I can't really tell the difference. I drink coffee every day, and I'm not that discriminating.

I don't have that palate that a lot of people do. Why is roasting or grinding coffee at the last minute so important? Well, you know, that is advice from professional coffee people. When you roast coffee, you take green coffee beans and they're roasted. That roasting process creates volatiles and the aromas. You know, green coffee bean before it's roasted does not smell of coffee it smells slightly very slightly grassy actually i mean very little none of the flavors that we would think of as coffee so when it's the roasting process that's given what we think of as a coffee

flavor to the coffee has brought that out and then when that roasting process happened you've got lots of volatiles which will escape which which is why you always, you know, coffee is sealed, you know, in bags that will really keep in the, you know, that aroma, that sort of precious aroma. And then every bean, as they say, locked inside it are those volatiles that give that really, you know, that coffee hit. And the flavor, again, because, you know, if you are, suppose you are buying, you know, posh coffee beans from a, from someone who's, you know, a craft racer, they'll have gone to a lot of are buying, you know, posh coffee beans from someone who's, you know, a craft roaster. They'll have gone to a lot of trouble to, you know, to source that coffee. And also they would have roasted in a way that they think brings out its characteristics, whatever that might be.

It might be fruitiness or floral notes or smoky notes. The one advice I got when I talked to these experts was, you know, to enjoy coffee at its best, grind it just before you make the coffee. I mean, these are guys who live and breathe coffee. So, I mean, you know, for lots of us, that isn't a mantra that we have to live by. But it makes, it does make sense. You know, you will get your maximum coffee hit from freshly ground coffee. And if it's from roasted coffee, that's not sat around for years and years and years.

You know, it's funny, people do love this, don't they? People buy the kit, they buy the grinders and the scales and the coffee-making gear. One of the things that always interests me is there's fresh beef and there's aged beef. And why? I mean, you would think that time would either be good or bad for beef, but it's both. Yes, well, it's interesting. I mean, in the aged beef, it's a really interesting process

where butchers keep meat in chilled conditions, but dry conditions. And they're almost allowing a process of decay that happens, but they're just doing it very cleverly. And the butcher put it to me. He said, look, it's like making stock. Because basically, as he ages his carcass, the beef carcass,

it shrinks because water's been lost. But with loss of water you're getting the intensity of flavor so his analogy was it's like reducing stock and so that so it's a process that is skillful it has to be done correctly in britain normally it's 21 to 28 days for beef is considered you know optimum time uh to mature meat and if i sat down and ate a plate or a bite of aged beef and a bite of fresh beef, I would be able to tell the difference immediately? Yeah, you really would. It's so interesting. I actually did a test for my book, and I bought, you know, very fresh steak,

which, you know, will look bright. It's much brighter in color. It's very red. It's bloodier. And then if you eat it, you know, you can taste the blood. It's really interesting. And it's just a simpler flavour, really, whereas the aged beef will have a more,

will have a different texture, it'll be drier, and it will have more savouriness to it and perhaps slightly gammy notes, depending on how it's been aged and how long it's been aged for. And just in a more complex flavor, actually. But it really is noticeable. It's not a sort of made-up thing. You would absolutely know the difference.

And is that the basic concept behind aging cheese, that it dries it out and it does something? Why do we age cheese, and why is that considered better cheese? Well, cheese is really complex, and there are so many different types of cheese. But you're absolutely right that we do value aged cheeses. You think of things like parmesan or cheddar. And in Britain, historically, we used something called cheesecloth, which is

a very porous material, like a muslin, that was wrapped around the cheese. So, let's say a cheddar maker, which is a hard cheese, because hard cheeses are the cheeses that age for longest and age the best. So, a cheddar cheese because hard cheeses are the cheeses that age for longest and age the best so they a cheddar cheese maker in britain traditionally would would make the cheese from fresh curd rub it with with a layer of fat often butter because the dairy farm and and wrap this cloth around it so there's a protective barrier because they don't want things like

cheese mites and they don't want the the rind to crack but it's porous and it allows the cheese to breathe and it and then it allows that aging that meaningful aging process to happen so again you would see and if you had a very fresh young piece of supermarket cheddar that's just been wrapped in plastics you will see and if you looked at it you could see that it would look much moister um than a sort, you know, let's say a year-old farmhouse cheddar, which will have a crumblier texture. And you'd feel it, you know, it would be texture but also flavour because, again, the aged cheddar will have developed

these savoury notes and these umami notes. But we do value aged cheese, and rightly so, because it's actually really complicated. You have to look after cheese very carefully, and so a good cheesemonger will take it to its optimum point to be its expression of itself. From all the research that you did, if you had to pick one food that, boy, if it's going to, if you need to pick something fresh, this is it, and one food that you really need to sit back and wait, what would they be? Oh, that's such a good question.

I do think it's fish. Actually, funny enough, a friend of mine, he's a keen fisherman, amateur fisherman, and he gave us a present of a sea bass. And we were in a holiday cottage, and he just left it for us. And I cooked it in the simplest way possible. And boy, oh boy, was that the best sea bass i've ever tasted in my life and that really brought home to me and he had caught it the day before so it was even you know it was even a few you know it wasn't like a minute later i ate it but it was like my goodness

it was so much fresher than the fish i buy in fishmongers and it just was delicious you know and that was a treat and then for aging i think i would go you know, and that was a treat. And then for aging, I think I would go, you know, I personally, one of the luxurious foods, which is sort of aged balsamic vinegar, and that is historically, now you have to sell it at a minimum 12 years or 25 years. And that's like a sort of concentrated elixir, basically. It's got extraordinary depth of flavor.

And it's very different from the mass-produced balsamic vinegar. One is traditional balsamic vinegar, one is just balsamic vinegar. One is made very quickly, one is made over years and years, and aged in different woods, which give their different flavour and perfumes.

It's really complex. That's a real treat, actually. And if, for someone like me who can't tell the difference between a freshly roasted ground cup of coffee and not, would I taste the difference between balsamic vinegar off the shelf and stuff that's been aged for 25 years? You would, because the one that is younger is much harsher, much more vinegary, much more acidy. This other one, you can sip it by the spoonful, and it's got an amazing sort of sweetness to it, and this sort of fragrance and aroma. Yeah, you definitely, you know, you would.

Well, it is interesting, and you do make the case that thyme is such an important ingredient in the food we eat and the flavor we taste. Jenny Linford's been my guest. She's a food writer and author of the book, The Missing Ingredient, The Curious Role of Time in Food and Flavor. You'll find a link to her book in the show notes. Thanks, Jenny. My pleasure, Mike. Take care.

Okay, thank you. Bye. A couple of times over the course of this podcast, we've talked about germy things. Things like hotel TV remotes and bedspreads and telephones and refrigerator handles on your fridge in the kitchen, those kind of things. Well, someone's come up with some new things we need to be concerned about. For example, credit and debit cards. They are covered in germs. They slide into and through lots of filthy spots, and they can safely be cleaned with a disinfectant wipe. You just need to make sure that they're completely dry before you put them away.

Electronics, phones and tablets, they're crawling with germs. You should check your owner's manual for cleaning recommendations because disinfectant wipes can damage some touchscreens on some phones and tablets. When you vacuum, you might want to flip over those throw rugs and vacuum the underside, which you've probably never done before. Every time you switch rolls of toilet paper, you should probably give that holder a shot of disinfectant. And salt and pepper shakers. They are often the filthiest thing on the table with the highest concentration of cold and flu viruses. So wipe those down once in a while. And that is something you should know. Anytime you have a question or a comment or just want to say hi, you can always write to me. There is a contact form on our website, or you can write

to me at mike at somethingyoushouldknow.net. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership

to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook, starring Kelly Marie Tran and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook. Starring Kelly Marie Tran and

Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. Contained herein are the heresies of Rudolf Buntwine, erstwhile monk turned traveling medical investigator. join me as i study the secrets of the divine plagues and uncover the blasphemous truth that ours is not a loving god and we are not its favored children the heresies of redolf bunt wine wherever podcasts are available