Something You Should Know - How to Get Things Done Without Stressing Out & What Other People Really Think of You

Episode Date: June 1, 2020

Could driving while dehydrated be as dangerous as driving while drunk? This episode begins with some fascinating research that shows a link between dehydration and driver error – and the results are... surprising. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/driving-while-dehydrated-can-be-just-as-dangerous-as-drinkdriving-study-suggests-10187670.html How do you get a lot of things done without feeling overwhelmed? That’s what I discuss with time management expert Sam Bennett author of the book Start Right Where You Are: How Little Changes Can Make a Big Difference for Overwhelmed Procrastinators, Frustrated Overachievers, and Recovering Perfectionists (https://amzn.to/2ZKmwDs). She discusses how to take control of your day and accomplish the important tasks – and how NOT to be one of those people who is always complaining about how much they have to do and how busy they are. When you interact with other people you make judgments about them. You also make judgements about how they are judging you and what they are thinking. The interesting thing is that you are probably wrong according to human behavior expert Mark Bowden author of the book Truth & Lies: What People Are Really Thinking (https://amzn.to/3etmqUT). Listen as Mark explains how to size up situations and the people you deal with in a way that gets you closer to understanding what other people are REALLY thinking. Loneliness can feel very painful. And that turns out to be a good thing. Listen as we discuss how to use the pain of loneliness to not feel lonely anymore. Source: Dr. Pat Love author of Never Be Lonely Again (https://amzn.to/2TKC3zq) This Week's Sponsors: -Kong Box. Get your first box free when you donate $1 to help dogs in need. Go to www.KongBox.com/something to start your subscription. -Pindrop. Listen to the new podcast Pindrop https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pindrop/id1514010062 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Starting point is 00:00:00 As a listener to Something You Should Know, I can only assume that you are someone who likes to learn about new and interesting things and bring more knowledge to work for you in your everyday life. I mean, that's kind of what Something You Should Know was all about. And so I want to invite you to listen to another podcast called TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done TED Talks. Well, you see, TED Talks Daily is a podcast that brings you a new TED Talk every weekday in less than 15 minutes. Join host Elise Hu.
Starting point is 00:00:37 She goes beyond the headlines so you can hear about the big ideas shaping our future. Learn about things like sustainable fashion, embracing your entrepreneurial spirit, the future of robotics, and so much more. Like I said, if you like this podcast, Something You Should Know, I'm pretty sure you're going to like TED Talks Daily. And you get TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts. and stop getting into conversations with people about how overwhelmed and busy you are. We wear busy like it's a badge of honor. You don't get bonus points for being more busy, nor you may notice you get more done. Also today, loneliness can be very painful, and I'll explain why that is actually a good thing. And just how good are you at reading other people and figuring out what they're thinking?
Starting point is 00:01:43 We think we can read other people's minds, and we think they read ours. We think that they get us. And so, you know, I don't really need to tell them that because they'll know that or they'll get that about me. I guarantee they probably don't. Quite a good idea to tell them. All this today on Something You Should Know. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world,
Starting point is 00:02:08 looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly
Starting point is 00:02:51 about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome to Something You Should Know. As the weather warms up, it becomes easier to get dehydrated. And it turns out that if you drive while you're dehydrated, that may be just as dangerous as driving while intoxicated.
Starting point is 00:03:38 Scientists tested dehydrated drivers and found they made double the number of errors compared to those who were properly hydrated, but roughly the same number as someone who had consumed the legal limit of alcohol. They found even mild dehydration can have a negative impact on mental functions, from reduced concentration and alertness to changes in mood. While we recognize the dangers of drinking alcohol and driving, it may be just as important to stay hydrated while driving. The recommendation is at least 6.8 ounces of water an hour.
Starting point is 00:04:15 And that is something you should know. There are two types of people in the world, it seems. Those people who are really busy, yet they get it all done, and they seem to have it all under control. And then there are people who are really busy, and they seem overwhelmed by it all. They're constantly talking about how busy they are, and their life is so chaotic. So how do you make sure you're one of those people who has it all under control? Well, here to help is time management expert Sam Bennett. She's author of a book called Start Right Now, Where You Are,
Starting point is 00:04:52 How Little Changes Can Make a Big Difference for Overwhelmed Procrastinators, Frustrated Overachievers, and Recovering Perfectionists. Hey Sam, welcome. So if we were to take those three groups of people in your title, overwhelmed procrastinators, frustrated overachievers, and recovering perfectionists, and we throw them all in a pot, what percentage of the population do you think we're talking about? Well, from the amount of head nodding and hand raising and smiling, I see when I say the title, I'm going to go like 90%. Yeah, that sounds about right, I think.
Starting point is 00:05:29 Yeah, we're all in that, just about in that group somewhere. Yeah, and some of it, you know, has to do with the amount of self-punishment that's involved. I mean, I think a lot of people call themselves procrastinators, when in fact, it just hasn't been the right time yet. You know, you can go a little easier on yourself sometimes. Still, though, there are a lot of people who seem really busy and stressed out by it. So what do you think the problem is? What do you see the problem as? Well, one of the problems I hear most often is this word overwhelm. And I hear it more and more, more in the last couple of years than I've ever heard it. I'm so overwhelmed. I'm so overwhelmed. I'm so overwhelmed. And you know, overwhelm is
Starting point is 00:06:09 when everything feels like it has the same level of importance. You know, when everything's just kind of coming at you with the same, with the same tone, with the same rush, with the same ping, ping, ping, ping, that's when we feel overwhelmed, when we can't discriminate between what's important and what's not important. So to understand that, in fact, it's a choice. Overwhelm is a choice. It's a choice you are making to not discriminate about all the information that's coming at you all the time.
Starting point is 00:06:40 But it does seem, though, just speaking from personal experience, that sometimes a lot of things really do seem to have the same level of importance. It needs to be done now. And I keep telling myself, yeah, but you can still only do one thing at a time, so even with those things, you're going to need to prioritize them. But that feeling of overwhelm, that everything has the same importance, sometimes feels very real. It does. It does. It's a very, very convincing illusion. And you're exactly right that you can only do one thing at once. And I would actually urge you to take one step back even from that and make sure that you are taken care of. Make sure that before you try to do anything, you are fed and rested and meditated and cuddled and walked and creatively satisfied. You know,
Starting point is 00:07:35 this concept of self-care, you know, shows up a lot in women's magazines and stuff, but really it's about making sure that you are calm in the center of your life. And when you get that way, then it's much easier to discriminate between what's important and what's not. It's much easier to prioritize. You have a sense of humor. You're flexible. You can listen when other people are talking. You have good ideas. But when you let yourself be constantly in output mode and you're constantly putting out fires and you're constantly dealing with everything and you're stressed out and exhausted and have no sense of humor, well, the rest of us have to deal with you like that, which is exhausting. And you get to the state of diminishing returns. But if that's how you have dealt with things for a long time,
Starting point is 00:08:23 it's wonderful to tell people to take care of themselves, calm down, take a break, but they don't. And instead what they do is they'll do that when they're done. And that's what they convince themselves is that's when I'll take a break and take care of myself when I get everything done. So how do you get somebody who doesn't think that way to do what you're talking about? Yeah, partly that was my issue too. And this belief that like, I'll wait and be happy in the future. I'll wait and rest in the future. I'll wait and be contented in the future. This is a big lie. You know, we think, oh, if I just get this amount of money in the bank account, or if I just hit this goal weight, or I get this gig. And it's not true.
Starting point is 00:09:06 And especially if you're not taking care of yourself, even if you do hit the goal weight or get the gig or get the money, you're not in a very good position to enjoy it. So the power in your life is in this moment right now. So to adjust your mindset in this moment right now, to take a breath in this moment right now, to take a breath in this moment right now, and easy stuff like get your cell phone out of the bedroom. Give yourself back that moment of waking up.
Starting point is 00:09:35 You know that minute like before your eyes even open and you're not anybody? You know, you're not anybody's mom. You're not anybody's boss. You're not, you're just you and your mind is sort of wavy from dreams. And, you know, it's a beautiful time and there's a real lovely feeling and like letting yourself just wake up and roll over and cuddle and doze and give yourself back the gift of just that minute or two of waking up. There's nothing happening on your phone that cannot wait
Starting point is 00:10:05 another couple of minutes while you start your day in a civilized manner. Even though you think there is. Even though you think there is. And it's a trick because, you know, we love to do things for other people and we love to feel busy and accomplished and like we're checking things off the list. And Simon Sinek writes very eloquently about that endorphin hit that we get, you know, and that ding, someone needs me, you know, my message app has pinged. But I really urge you to turn that on its head and take care of yourself first, even just in the sense of taking a deep breath, and then move forward on all the projects and all the
Starting point is 00:10:45 people who need you. But that staying in bed and enjoying it for a minute and taking a deep breath are momentary band-aids, but what about a more of a long-term approach to fixing this? Well, that's the funny thing about it, is those little band-aids, those little moment-to-moment one-degree shifts create long-term effect. Like sometimes the question, what do I want, can feel kind of overwhelming. You know, like, what do I want? I don't know. What do you want? What do you want me to want? What can I do for you? Like that's really, you know, it's hard to ask ourselves sometimes the question, what do I want? But to ask the question, how can I make this moment more me?
Starting point is 00:11:28 How can I make this moment right now more me? How can I make this conversation more me? How can I make this outfit more me, this email, this dinner, this, you know, whatever it is I'm working on? Like, how can I just show up just 1% more? How can I be just 1% more authentic and real and present in this moment right now? And the more, it's a tiny shift, but the more plugged in you are to your own self, your own natural human beingness, and this present moment, the more people will start to respond to you, the different kind of results you'll get. And you've had this experience.
Starting point is 00:12:06 Like, you know, you're in line at the grocery store or at the airline counter, and all of a sudden you have, like, a really human moment with somebody. You know, you make eye contact, or somebody makes a joke, and it's like, oh, right. We're just people here in the grocery store.
Starting point is 00:12:19 Right. And all of a sudden the whole tone changes. Your whole day can change. Your whole life can change. Your whole life can change. But not if you're not there for it. I can imagine, though, some people saying, well, what the hell does she mean by be more me? You know, I mean, yeah, maybe you say hi to somebody in the grocery store,
Starting point is 00:12:36 and again, that's a nice little momentary distraction from your day. But it seems like this is a deeper thing, that to be more me, well, I don't know what that means. What does that mean? Well, I think it's going to be different for every person. So for some people, it's going to mean showing how seriously you take things. For some people, it's going to mean being as sarcastic as you are, or being as funny as you are, or being as kind-hearted and complimentary as you are. You know, whatever it is, those things that you do, that person you've always been, you know, you have ways that you are in the world,
Starting point is 00:13:12 and people tell you about it all the time. Oh, Mike, you're so insightful. Oh, so-and-so, you ask such good questions. Oh, you're so funny, right? So just lean into those things just a little bit more. You know, who am I? Well, I'm a friendly person. Oh, good.
Starting point is 00:13:25 Maybe I can look for a moment. How can I make this email that just one degree more friendly? You know, or actually, I'm kind of a cynic. You know, I love, I think of the dark side all the time. Good. How can I lean into that? How can I make this moment just a little bit more, you know, bring that to light just a little bit more? Because we need all of it. And the result is what? And more importantly, how do you know this works? I mean, it sounds good. Is this just a theory? Or how do you know this doing the things you're talking about really has some sort of lasting impact on people. Well, I know it took me from, you know, crying on a tattered couch in Sherman Oaks,
Starting point is 00:14:06 California, learning, earning less than $20,000 a year to, you know, mid six figures. And I live by the beach and I spend all day doing work that I love. So I know it worked for me. Um, and I know it's worked for, for thousands of clients. It may not, you know, but I don't claim that to have this solution for everybody, but you could at least try it. I mean, we all know how painful it is to not be us, to feel like our authentic self is not welcome, to feel like we're not showing up fully in our lives. We all know the pain of that, right? I used to have that. I had a day job where I felt like, like I was leaving half of myself at home. And that was really depressing. So try it. You know, if it doesn't work, then stop. But it's just a little bit and just for a minute. So give it a whirl.
Starting point is 00:14:52 So for the person who fits the description, who's overwhelmed, who uses that word a lot, I'm overwhelmed, I'm overwhelmed. Give me a place to start. I mean, you've given me lots of places to start, but give me one easy place that somebody who's identified with what you're talking about could do right now. Stop playing overwhelmed poker. Stop using the word overwhelmed and stop getting into conversations with people about how overwhelmed and busy you are. Like, we wear busy like it's a badge of honor. And, you know, you don't get bonus points for being more busy. Nor, you may notice, do you get more done? You know, and this, I hear it all the time, this, oh, I'm so busy. I'm so overwhelmed. I had to be up at this hour. And then I had to go take the kids.
Starting point is 00:15:37 And then I had this at work. And then it's like you're just, you know, at church we used to call that praying the problem. You know, you're not looking for a solution, you're just looking for sympathy around the problem. Let's talk about it a little bit, you know, look at this problem, look at this problem, look at this problem. Instead, take some responsibility for it. If you're busy because you're doing a lot of things that you'd love to do, then say that. Say that. My guest is time management expert Sam Bennett, and her book is Start Right Now, Where You Are. our network called The Search for the Silver Lightning, a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. During her journey,
Starting point is 00:16:29 Isla meets new friends, including King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table, and learns valuable life lessons with every quest, sword fight, and dragon ride. Positive and uplifting stories remind us all about the importance of kindness, friendship, honesty, and positivity. Join me and an all-star cast of actors, including Liam Neeson, Emily Blunt, Kristen Bell, Chris Hemsworth, among many others, in welcoming the Search for the Silver Lining podcast to the Go Kid Go Network by listening today. Look for the Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like something you should know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show.
Starting point is 00:17:13 Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career
Starting point is 00:17:45 choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes. Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back, and in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed, critical thinker. Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. So I think a good question right here is, where do you start? How do you put your toe in the water? Because I can understand that some people might say, well, you know, this all sounds good, but I don't know where to begin. I like to put a time limit on things. So I tend to return phone calls, emails, even text messages. I will often wait 24 hours to respond because I don't want to train people to expect that they can always hear back from me right away. I'm not available all the time. I have office hours. I'm available during office hours. If you contact me outside of office hours, you're not going to hear from me until the next day. And that takes discipline. You know, I'm a solopreneur. I'm an author. I'm a writer. I've got, you know, it's really just me here.
Starting point is 00:18:59 And I have that feeling just as much as anybody else does of like, oh, I've got to get back to them right away. No, no, I don't need to contribute to the franticness. They'll still be there tomorrow. It's okay. It's okay. Yeah, and I think people who suffer from being so busy being busy, look at those people who actually take a day to return an email and wonder, you know, what the hell's wrong with them?
Starting point is 00:19:24 I mean, how nice that would be to be able to do that, but some people just can't go 30 seconds without responding to an email. And yet, wouldn't it be nice if you could actually take that deep breath and say, that can wait? Exactly. Exactly. And to spend just a little bit of time every day on the projects that matter most to you. And again, I know people are going to hear that and go like, oh, that's selfish. That's selfish. I couldn't do that. That's selfish.
Starting point is 00:19:53 It's actually the opposite of selfish. Because when you spend time doing the stuff that really lights you up, and whatever that is, maybe it's a couple of minutes of playing guitar, or maybe it's doing some writing or doodling or, you know, we're running or praying or whatever it is you like to do. When you spend just a little bit of time every day doing that, you're lit up and we can see that. Then we get to see this part of you that's engaged and that loves life and that is in doing fun things where, you know, your whole day isn't just an obligation, but there's joy in it. And then the things that are obligations become more joyful.
Starting point is 00:20:30 You bring that joy into those moments as well. You know what I'm hearing here, and it's kind of interesting, is that, you know, people don't realize that that overwhelm and that busy being busy thing is in many ways self-imposed, but they don't see it that way. That's right. And taking a hundred percent, you've got to take a hundred percent responsibility for the results of your life. It's, it's you, you know, people say, oh, I'll get to it when it's not so crazy. Honey, the crazy is not out there. The crazy is you. You're the one saying yes to all this stuff. You're the one responding
Starting point is 00:21:12 to things every day in the way that you do. And it's an important part of growing up is learning to self-manage and to say, I will keep my cool. I will keep my commitment to what I know is important to me. There are people, and I think I see myself in this sometimes too, that, you know, by having a crazy day and doing a million things and feeling overwhelmed, when it's over, it feels great. You feel like you've accomplished so much. And if you really
Starting point is 00:21:45 de-stressed your life, you wouldn't get that end of the day high that feels so good. Oh, I wouldn't confuse the deep satisfaction that comes from productivity with adrenaline. Those are two different things. And the adrenaline rush does feel kind of good. And I'm a busy bunny myself. I mean, I wrote and published this book in 11 months. I mean, my first book was called Get It Done. I mean, I love to get things done. Don't get me wrong. But what I'm suggesting, I'm not suggesting you reduce your productivity at all, but rather be busy without the story of busy. So be busy like a trapeze artist is busy, right? You just go smoothly from one thing to the next thing, like a neurosurgeon is busy, you know, concentrated, clean, with some grace.
Starting point is 00:22:38 You know, be busy without being rushed. Be busy without being stressed. And then, yeah, you get to the end of the day, and you do. You have that deep satisfaction. And people will be amazed. I mean, we just had a team meeting this morning, and one of my team members, Sam, said, Sam, I can't believe how busy you are. Like, I was just looking at your calendar.
Starting point is 00:23:01 It's crazy. And I'm like, oh, is it? Like, oh, I don't feel that busy. I feel fine. Well, there it is right there in a nutshell. You just, you just said it. I mean, what we do is we, we have this backstory going in our heads all the time about how busy we are and, and how overwhelmed we are. But still you can only do one thing at a time. You move from A to B to C to D, and you can either do it and act all stressed out, or you can do it and not act all stressed out, and one is a lot better than the other. And a lot more pleasant for the rest of us.
Starting point is 00:23:36 Exactly. Great, great. Well, I appreciate it. That's some really good insight. Thanks. My pleasure. Thank you so much. Sam Bennett has been my guest. She is a time management expert and author of the book, Start Right Now, Where You Are, How Little Changes Can Make a Big Difference for Overwhelmed Procrastinators, Frustrated Overachievers, and Recovering Perfectionists. Do you love Disney?
Starting point is 00:24:02 Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. There is nothing we don't cover. We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney-themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed,
Starting point is 00:24:21 but you definitely need in your life. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa Demonts for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? Each week, we deliver four fun-filled shows. In Don't Blame Me, we tackle our listeners' dilemmas with hilariously honest advice.
Starting point is 00:24:44 Then we have But Am I Wrong?, which is for the listeners that didn't take our advice. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events. Then tune in to see you next Tuesday for our listener poll results from But Am I Wrong. And finally, wrap up your week with Fisting Friday, where we catch up and talk all things pop culture. Listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. Whenever you're with someone, you make judgments about them, and they make judgments about you. You get a sense of who they are. You think you know what they're thinking.
Starting point is 00:25:30 What are they thinking about you? Are they happy? Are they bored? You like to think that you can grasp that information pretty quickly. But in fact, there's a good chance you're way off. Fact is, you don't know much at all about what they're thinking. But you can get better at figuring out some of it. And think of that. If you can figure out better what's going on in the other person's head, that could be very advantageous for you. Mark Bowden is here to help you figure out how to better understand people in those situations. Mark is an expert in human behavior and body language and author of the book Truth and Lies,
Starting point is 00:26:04 What People Are Really Thinking. Hi, Mark. Great to be here. Thanks for having me, Mike. So if I'm not very good at figuring out what people are thinking and what they're feeling when I talk to them, what's a better way? What's your way of doing it? First of all, you need to suspend your judgment. So my guess is, if you're anything like me or any other human being on the planet you make judgments about people and you make judgments
Starting point is 00:26:30 instinctually on their behavior you see somebody doing something and you go a little voice in your head goes oh i know what that is i know what's happening here uh oh they're angry oh they're happy right now or oh they're sad right now. Oh, they're sad right now. You know, you make that snap judgment and it feels very true to you. It feels so true to you that you say things in your head like, I get them. I understand them. I'm reading them right. I know what they're thinking and feeling. It feels very, very true. Now, your judgment is either very true, very inaccurate, or something in between. The key is, can we get to the accurate part of it? So first of all, we need to suspend your judgment. That's not to say your judgment is not right. It
Starting point is 00:27:20 could be very right, very wrong, or something in between. But in order to work out whether it's right, we're just going to suspend it, first of all. And a really quick way of doing suspension of judgment is to put the word maybe. When that little voice in your head comes, oh, they're angry, you just consciously put the word maybe after that. Oh, they're angry, maybe. Oh, they're sad, maybe. Oh, they're happy to see me, maybe. Oh, I think they're they're angry, maybe. Oh, they're sad, maybe. Oh, they're happy to see me, maybe. Oh, I think they're lying to me, maybe.
Starting point is 00:27:48 So that's the first part, suspension of judgment. How does that sound to you, Mike? Do you think you can manage that? So far, so good. Yeah, okay. So the next thing you're going to do is look at the context of it. You're going to look around the um the information that you're getting so you're going to look for a bigger amount of data because what happened was is your instinct saw something it
Starting point is 00:28:13 made a quick judgment on your behalf mainly to keep you safe not to keep you you know just to keep you alive it went they're happy they're angry they're sad whatever it was but now you're going to look at the context around it. There are many contexts around it. What frame is it in? What time of day is it in? What's the relationship you already have? What other data do you already have about these?
Starting point is 00:28:37 You're going to take in more data, so context. Then you're going to ask yourself, and what else? What else do you know? So once you've taken in more context, you're going to try and get even more data. Now, here's the problem. Your brain doesn't like to do that. It liked its judgment in the first place. It was very happy with its judgment in the first place because it had made a snap judgment,
Starting point is 00:28:59 made a decision, and you were able to carry on with your day. Your snap judgment wasn't necessarily accurate, but part of your brain doesn't really worry about that. It's not interested in accuracy. It wants your safety now, accuracy tomorrow. It's quite happy to be super accurate tomorrow and just get on with life right now. So we suspend judgment. We look at the context. We ask what else, what more data can we take in? Things like, you know, how am I feeling about this? How much could that be about me rather than them? If I think they're angry, is it because I'm angry? Am I projecting on them? And then the last part of this is you make a new judgment. Now, your new judgment based on this extra data can be exactly the same as your old
Starting point is 00:29:47 judgment. That's okay. You could do a piece of critical thinking and come out the other end going, you know what? I think I was right. I think my judgment was right. But you've taken just enough time to go suspend the judgment, look at the context, ask for more data. You could ask yourself, ask them. You could ask an expert. You could stop your judgment, look at the context, ask for more data. You could ask yourself, ask them, you could ask an expert, you could stop your judgment, go and do a bit of research on the internet or read a book before you make your new judgment. But then you make a new judgment, you put that with the old judgment, and you start to think about which one you feel might be more accurate. That's a simple, very quick piece of critical
Starting point is 00:30:26 thinking. And that's what I'm asking people to do. And is it likely you're right? It's likely you're probably more right. Yeah. Yeah. It's probably likely that you will get closer to a level of accuracy. Yeah, absolutely. You know, if you notice when you think about stuff, you know, there's your judgment, there's your snap judgment, and then you think about it. Have you ever noticed that quite often you get a better level of thinking, a better level of judgment, a better outcome, or are you give thought to a problem or a situation, you're going to have a better insight than than your snap judgment. Yeah, yeah, I found the same. And human beings have found that the same. And that's the reason we have a neocortex. Neocortex is super expensive to run, takes a third of every breath that every breath that you take to run that neocortex. So we have to expect if evolution allows us to keep the neocortex being super expensive,
Starting point is 00:31:36 it must get better outcomes than not having a neocortex. So based on that alone, we just go the more you use your neocortex. So based on that alone, we just go, the more you use your neocortex, the better thinking you have, the better survival rate you actually have over the long term. Now, your judgment system is designed to help you survive now, right now. It just wants your survival right now. It doesn't even care about your family's survival, by the way. It's just you. It's your brainstem that makes these snap judgments. It's in it for you. It's not in it for me. It's not in it for your son or your daughter. It's in it for you right now. And when
Starting point is 00:32:16 you stop and think for a moment and start that critical thinking process, you get a little bit more social and then you get a lot more intelligent and with that intelligence you get better outcomes and evolution tells us that modern society tells us that critical thinking smart thinking better outcomes so when we look at people's body language and we make snap judgments about, oh, they're bored, they don't like me, whatever it is that we're sensing based on what we're seeing and hearing, are we usually right or are we usually wrong or is it it's just a crapshoot? We're usually defaulting to a negative for a start. If I were to shoot that crap and gamble with you, and I were to say, okay, I'm going to get you to go and look at 100 people, no, Mark, you know, I'm a really kind of nonjudgmental person. I'm super positive. No, you're going to default to more negatives and positives because you're using a part of your brain that wants you safe now and to be accurate tomorrow. So when insufficient data,
Starting point is 00:33:40 we default to negatives. Unless on all of those hundred people, you saw overwhelming evidence that they had positive intentions, and it would have to be overwhelming. If it was a toss-up between they're happy or angry, you'd go towards angry. Yeah, if it was a 50-50, looked about a 50-50 chance to your instinct, your instinct would default to negatives. So, you know, that's my best answer to that is, you know, are we accurate some of the time? Yeah, we're accurate some of the time. But then, you know, clocks are accurate some of the time stop, stop clocks are accurate some of the time. And so but when you meet somebody, like you're on a first date, you're you're you're trying to read them to see you know oh she likes me or he he doesn't like me or i are we are we just wishful thinking because
Starting point is 00:34:31 it seems more often than not we we kind of hope we're being liked because we're you know we're being judged absolutely you're being judged if you're on a date, my guess is you're being evaluated, are you super optimistic or a little more pessimistic about it? If you don't know the criteria as well, so there's no set criteria because you don't know the examiner very well, so you don't know what they're examining for exactly. If you were to go into that examination, would you be very optimistic about your chances or pessimistic about your chances? Well, I would think going into a situation like that where you don't know very much, I would be more pessimistic, not very hopeful because I don't know what's going to happen, but I assume, I guess I assume the worst. And were I to gamble on this, I would gamble that most people on the planet will join
Starting point is 00:35:46 you in this. You will get some super optimists who will go, yeah, I don't know the criteria under which I'm being judged. It's a really important set of criteria. I have no idea about the examination. I'm going to ace this one. You will have a few outliers who are like that. Yeah. And they're interesting people to be around because they're just super optimistic sometimes not very realistic but you know they can often in certain situations really get stuff done um with no regard for the systems that they're in zero regard for them yeah but i think you fall into the majority of people on the planet, which is, I'm going to be a little bit nervous about this. So we go to dates and we're a little bit nervous because we don't understand the exam.
Starting point is 00:36:33 And it's an important examination. And I guess over the date, what we might be able to do is work out the evaluation system that the other person is using. How are they evaluating us? And how do we fit in with that evaluation? And I guess we might leak to them either consciously or unconsciously some of our evaluation system. And they might go, I don't really like your evaluation system. Or they might go, I like your evaluation system. And actually, I fit quite, I do quite well in that evaluation system. And actually, I fit quite, I do quite well in that evaluation system. And we might get a good match around that.
Starting point is 00:37:09 And in order to do that really accurately, yeah, there will be some nonverbal data that we can pick up on. But we're also going to have to use a lot of verbal data as well. We're going to have to talk on the date as well. We might see some mirroring actions. We might be able to pick up from the environment that we're in what somebody likes or dislikes, again, which is giving us this evaluation system. But one of the things we're going to have to do is use verbal communication to get a sense of how that person is thinking and feeling around us. Does that make sense, Mike? Sure. But everybody who goes on a date, a first date, knows that you play
Starting point is 00:37:52 to the date. If you want to be liked, you're trying to put your best foot forward. You may be on better behavior than you might otherwise be. You're playing to the situation. And so the whole thing's kind of phony. Oh, but that continues way into you, you know, getting, creating a permanent relationship and the infatuation stage, which is I think what you're talking about there, that goes on for quite a while. So let's just make this even worse. If you think that that just happens just on the first date or the second date or the third date,
Starting point is 00:38:30 I guarantee you that happens actually for a number of potentially years until after a while the effort of performing the behaviors that coincide really well or some of the stresses of life cause you not to be able to produce these signals that fit very very well into the other person's criteria for being judged as valuable and at that point within a long-term relationship uh you often get what a sense of disappointment. It's like, who am I with? That's not who I married. That's not who I moved in with. I don't like this anymore.
Starting point is 00:39:13 They seem to have changed. No, what you're seeing is them when they've run out of energy to be able to perform for this. And so the infatuation stage is is over um and then after that we start to learn who somebody really uh is under the the great panoply of of circumstances and we learn some of the big bonuses of of that and we learn tolerance and forgiveness and all kinds of very important social human things infatuation is a really important social human thing because otherwise we'd never fall in love for example we'd never have that that infatuation love at the start that would bring
Starting point is 00:40:01 people together and it's not that any of that is false or wrong, or it's just a really important stage. When you step back from all of this, this whole topic that you talk about, what, if anything, is the one or two things that just really fascinate you, or that fascinate other people more than anything else, that really, if people only knew
Starting point is 00:40:25 this thing, it would just help so much. Oh, you know what would help so much? Well, let's do a couple of things, a couple of things and they coincide. You can't read people's minds. You have no idea what's going on. You have no idea, no idea. You guess. It's called theory of mind. But you call that guess knowing because there's a part of your brain that produces when you have this guess, it also produces a bunch of chemicals that of you're very right about it. So the moment you know that, then you know that it might be worth now and again suspending that judgment. So first of all, you do not know what's going on in that other person's head, yeah? But you get messages to say you do know, yeah? You absolutely know. So the feeling that you have about your mind reading is very inaccurate. Okay, you are not a good mind reader, you're an inaccurate mind reader. And the next time you read somebody's mind and get that feeling of, of, ah, I know what they're
Starting point is 00:41:43 thinking, you're going to think back to what I said, and you're going to go, no, ah, I know what they're thinking. You're going to think back to what I said, and you're going to go, no, this, I've got this right. And Mark's so wrong. He's wrong. He's wrong. Yeah. He's wrong about that. I do know what they're, what they're thinking and feeling right now. So I just want to remind you of that, that you'll, you'll say that I'm wrong at the time when you feel most, uh, optimistic about how good you are at this. And the other thing is, is that because of this, you need to understand that other people's minds are not your mind. We do a lot of thinking that people understand us as well. We think we can read other people's minds and we think they read ours as well We think that they get us and so, you know
Starting point is 00:42:28 I don't really need to tell them that because they'll know that or they'll get that or I don't need to tell them how I'm Feeling right now what I'm thinking right now because they get that about me I guarantee they probably don't probably don't get that about you be quite a good idea to tell them just say here's how I feel at the moment or this is what i'm thinking or um but there's a risk there's a risk to that so so one of the things we do is kind of pretend that other people know what we're thinking and feeling because it stops us risking telling them and them because there's a risk because they might go why do you why are you feeling that that's's a bit silly. Or why are you thinking that? That's completely wrong. We're worried about the rejection, so we don't often do it. If you were to people, we make our judgments about other people, and it's usually done quickly.
Starting point is 00:43:28 And as you point out, maybe that's not the best way to do it. And with a little time and a little effort and suspending those immediate judgments, you can get a better sense of people. My guest has been Mark Bowden.
Starting point is 00:43:41 He is a human behavior and body language expert and author of the book Truth and Lies, What People Are Really Thinking. And if you'd like to get a copy of that book, there is a link to it at Amazon in the show notes for this episode. Thank you, Mark. My pleasure. Great speaking to you. And finally today on Something You Should Know, the feeling of loneliness. I don't know anyone who hasn't had at some point in their life that feeling of intense loneliness.
Starting point is 00:44:13 And it's been described as feeling almost painful, physically painful when you feel that lonely. And it turns out that there's a reason for that. Loneliness is a motivator. According to Dr. Pat Love, author of the book Never Be Lonely Again, human survival has always depended on people working, living, and being together in groups. connect with other people in order to survive. This is the difference between depression and loneliness. Depression is a state where loneliness is a motivator. And the magic cure for loneliness, according to Pat Love, is to simply show up for something that means something to someone else. It works every time. Interestingly, internet relationships do very little to help battle loneliness. In fact, there is some research that shows that cyber relationships actually make lonely people feel even more lonely.
Starting point is 00:45:16 And that is something you should know. If you're sheltering in place, quarantining, or sitting around looking for something to do, here's something to do. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It only takes a minute, and it is a great way to show your support for this podcast. I'm Micah Ruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper.
Starting point is 00:45:42 In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law,
Starting point is 00:46:12 her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook. Starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. Contained herein are the heresies of Redolph Buntwine,
Starting point is 00:46:38 erstwhile monk turned traveling medical investigator. Join me as I study the secrets of the divine plagues and uncover the blasphemous truth that ours is not a loving God and we are not its favored children. The Heresies of Randolph Bantwine, wherever podcasts are available.

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