Something You Should Know - How to Make Smarter Choices in Every Day Life & Why You Must Have More Fun at Work

Episode Date: July 4, 2019

Hot summer days are often called the “dog days of summer.” Why? This episode begins with an explanation of that. http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/environment/a21725/dog-days/ You make a lot of choices every day. Some are harder to make than others. Listening to this episode will likely help make better choices. Joining me is Joseph Bikart author of the book The Art of Decision Making: How We Move from Indecision to Smart Choices (https://amzn.to/2xsIwmW). After listening you may change the way you look at the choices you make.  It seems a lot of homeowners are over-watering their lawns. Doing so not only wastes water but causes some other problems as well. Listen and discover how to check that your lawn is getting just the right amount of water. http://livinggreen.ifas.ufl.edu/water/lawn_care_and_irrigation.html Having fun at work may seem counterproductive. How can you get work done if you are having fun? Well, it seems to be more complicated than that. In fact having fun may be just the thing for getting more work done – better! Joining me to explain is Dave Crenshaw a speaker and trainer who has authored five books. One of them is called The Power of Having Fun (https://amzn.to/2xoQYUj)  This Week's Sponsors -Fab Fit Fun. For 10% off your first box go to www.FabFitFun.com and use the promo code: something -Capital One. What's in your wallet? www.CapitalOne.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As a listener to Something You Should Know, I can only assume that you are someone who likes to learn about new and interesting things and bring more knowledge to work for you in your everyday life. I mean, that's kind of what Something You Should Know was all about. And so I want to invite you to listen to another podcast called TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done TED Talks. Well, you see, TED Talks Daily is a podcast that brings you a new TED Talk every weekday in less than 15 minutes. Join host Elise Hu.

She goes beyond the headlines so you can hear about the big ideas shaping our future. Learn about things like sustainable fashion, embracing your entrepreneurial spirit, the future of robotics, and so much more. Like I said, if you like this podcast, Something You Should Know, I'm pretty sure you're going to like TED Talks Daily. And you get TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts. Today on Something You Should Know, why are hot summer days called the dog days of summer? I'll have the answer to that, then understanding how you make choices. And the process is fascinating. I mentioned Spinoza, the Dutch philosopher, and in the 17th century, he said, every decision you make is the right decision. And the way he explains it, he says, because you took it.

The other decisions were not even worth taking. So the decision you took is always the right decision. Also, there's a good chance you're watering your lawn too much. I'll explain how to tell. And the importance of having fun at work. And it is important. The biggest reason is that it boosts productivity. And the reality is

when you schedule time to have fun, when you make it not something that gets fit in at the end of the day if you got your work done, but if you make it a top priority, everyone's performance improves overall. All this today on Something You Should Know. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like Something You Should Know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests,

but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes. Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back, and in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed, critical thinker. Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show.

There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome.

This episode is being published on the 4th of July, 2019, so happy 4th. And we're also in the dog days of summer. Have you ever wondered why hot days are called the dog days of summer? Well, unless you know the story, you'll never guess. Some have suggested that when things get hot, it makes dogs act crazy, but that's nothing to do with it. It's not even close.

According to the Farmer's Almanac, the dog days of summer refer specifically to the 40-day span between July 3rd and August 11th, and it has to do with the dog star Sirius. August 11th coincides with the rising of the dog star Sirius in the early morning sky. For the ancient Egyptians, they realized that Sirius appeared just before the season of the Nile River flooding, so they used the star as kind of a watchdog for that event.

Since its rising also coincided with a time of extreme heat, the connection with hot weather and the dog star Sirius and the dog days of summer. And that is something you should know. Think for a moment about those decisions you make that you should know. Think for a moment about those decisions you make that you struggle with. Where to go on vacation, what color to paint the house, or what kind of car to buy. You really can struggle and become paralyzed trying to make those kinds of decisions.

But in the long run, does it really matter what color you paint the house or which car you buy? It probably doesn't matter as much as you think, and not in the way you think. Joseph Bicart is a British-based investment banker who has struggled with decision-making and indecision himself, so he decided to really dig deep into this topic, and he wrote a book called The Art of Decision-Making, How We Move from Indecision to Smart Choices. And he's here to shed some light on the process of making decisions that I think will help us all make them a bit better. Hi, Joseph. Thank you, Mike. Great to be here with you.

So it does seem that so many decisions that we are faced with are hard to make. You know, do we stay at that hotel or that hotel? Do we move here or there? Do I take this job or that job? Do I go to that school or this school? And I know people, and I know myself, have sometimes been in that position of feeling just paralyzed, not really knowing what to do, being unable

to decide anything. That's a very common thing. And also what's interesting is that the same decisions that come easy to some are difficult to others and vice versa. And one example I had in my professional life, if you want, was working with the chief economist at a U.S. bank. And I imagined this person clearly would never have any problems making any decisions. And he said to me, that's true.

I find it really easy to make decisions on interest rates and where the economy is going, but I find it pretty much impossible to choose a color for my walls. And he said, luckily, my wife is very good at that. She wouldn't help me much with interest rates, but I thought it was really interesting. What he was saying was, I don't have a model for that. I don't have an algorithm to choose a color for the walls. So everyone struggled with their own decisions.

Why do you think it is so hard when people are faced with a choice like, you know, what car to buy or what color to paint the wall? Why is it so hard to choose? On the surface, it doesn't seem, what car to buy or what color to paint the wall, why is it so hard to choose? On the surface, it doesn't seem like it should be that hard. Very often when we struggle with two, you know, between two choices, between two options, it's because both options are acceptable to us. The choice between two colors is typically because, you know, we've boiled it down, sorry, from a hundred colors down to two. And presumably, we like both. Otherwise, they wouldn't be the colors we choose from. So a philosophical view

on that from actually a US philosopher, Ruth Chang, says these choices are probably the most interesting choices we make because they are normative. It's when we have to decide between two things that are equally desirable to us that these choices are precisely the decisions that make us who we are. That's what she means by normative. So we shouldn't be fazed by them. We should, on the contrary, welcome these difficult decisions. I know it's easier said than done, but we should welcome them in that they give us an opportunity to be who we are. When you think about how people make, I mean, we make decisions every day. We make decisions about the smallest, littlest things up to really big things. And at some point along that line, it gets harder. And what is it that makes people so indecisive when they are indecisive, when

other things, there is no indecision, it's just you just decide and that's it? Yeah, some things you're absolutely right, Mike, something we decide very instinctively, and then occasionally we struggle. And what I've been, you know, working on is precisely what is the struggle about? What is the source of the struggle. And ultimately, it's about fear. Ultimately, when we struggle with a decision, it's because we're afraid that we may regret that decision. And what I find really interesting about that

is that there are two types of regrets, if you want. There's one for what's called errors of omission. The other one is for errors of commission. And what that means is that errors of omission is something I regret because I haven't done it today. I haven't taken up an opportunity. Errors of commission is the other way around. I regret something I have done.

And most people are afraid of committing to the wrong decision, of acting based on the wrong decision, when in fact, in the long term, the decisions we regret the most are linked to errors of omission. In the long term, what we regret the most is the things we haven't done. So this is really a manifesto against procrastination, because when we think that by not doing something, we live a safer life, it's actually the other way around. It does seem, at least to me anyway, that procrastination, to some extent, is human nature,

that people have a tendency to put off what they can put off. And yet you're saying that it plays into something that we end up regretting later. So I wonder why human nature leads us down the wrong path. You know, really, when you think of decision, even the word decision, there's something really interesting in the etymology of the word. It comes from a Latin root, which is caedere, which means to cut off. So there's this really violent act of using a knife to cut off, cut something in two. And there is something about the human mind. It sees decisions, it sees choice as the potential of a loss. We lose the other option.

And this is associated with suffering. And our psyche would do anything in the world to avoid the feeling of suffering. So you're saying that by procrastinating, which so many of us do, we're keeping all our options alive. When we make a decision, when we choose one, all the other possibilities die and we suffer from that. So to avoid the suffering we put it off and keep everything alive. So what's the advice then? Of all you know about the decision-making process and how people struggle with it, what's the advice that helps clear the fog here? The most

essential bit of advice I would give is try to understand the source of your indecision. When we understand what our fears are and what I've looked at are all the types of fears that can generate indecision and procrastination. So once we have identified the type of fear, we can use that almost as a mirror and realize that the fear about decision is very often a fear about the self. To give you an example, if the fear is the fear of rejecting a better option, it may mirror a fear about the self, which is the fear of being rejected, the fear of being missed out. If the fear is the fear of failure, it may mirror a fear about the self that I may be a failure. So what I'm saying is deep down at the root of indecision, there is a fear about the self. And if people are interested

in any long-term solution, if you want to their indecision, the first thing is that element of introspection. The second and maybe more practical aspect is, as you were hinting earlier, Mike, we should not look at a decision in isolation of all the decisions we make. So a decision may be regarded as right or wrong. And in any case, a decision that may seem to be wrong in the short term can turn out into one of our best decisions in the long term. So what I'm saying is it's not healthy to look at a decision in isolation of other decisions. I'd rather people looked at decisions as a string of decisions that are consistent between themselves and then act based on, is this new decision in line or not in line with my habit of decision-making,

with my pattern of decision-making? Well, so let's take an example. Let's say a couple wants to take a trip. They've always wanted to go to England from the U.S., and it's an expensive trip, and maybe they don't have the money, they're going to have to charge up their credit cards, but it's something they've always wanted to do, and so they do it. And so now they've had this experience, which hopefully is a nice experience of having gone to Great Britain,

but they're also settled now with credit card debt. Was that a good decision? You see, it's interesting because I mentioned Spinoza before, the Dutch philosopher, and in the 17th century, he said, every decision you make is the right decision. And the way he explains it, he says, because you took it. The other decisions were not even worth taking. So the decision you took is always the right decision. So if we extrapolate from that, what he actually means is, if you've taken that holiday, it's proven to be expensive, you may have regrets.

Well, regrets are never helpful. Remorse and regret is never helpful. Regret means to mourn twice. Remorse means to be bitten twice. So it's almost like we're doubling the pain. Instead of that, like Spinoza, I would regard every decision as the right decision in that it informs our next decision. If I feel I have spent too much money on that holiday,

I may be more cautious next time. Or I may not take a holiday every six months, but one a year or one every two years and spend that kind of money for a holiday I really want. But what I'm saying is the remorse or regret attitude is always a negative one. The attitude of learning from our past decisions is really what helps us grow in the long term. So I get the philosophical concept of every decision was the right decision, but on a more practical down-to-earth level, not every decision was the right decision.

If, for example, you go out drinking with your buddies and you drink too much and you drive and you get pulled over by the police and you get arrested, most people would probably say you made a poor decision. So again, it's the difference between the short-term, the present self, and the future self. This is a decision that is made only with the present self in mind. With hindsight, it is the wrong decision. But I think the way this decision is used by the person that ended up in trouble is it would inform every future decision that they make in that same situation. So it's really not a question of, was it the right or wrong decision on that occasion. It's in the string of decisions, how did that help me become a better decision maker? Going back to where we started this interview and the thought by Camus that we are the sum of the choices we make,

we better learn from every choice we make if we want our life to be a good one. Well, and it starts with, you know, when the child puts his hand on the hot stovetop, well, he's made a decision to do that and has learned and probably never does it again. And so he has informed his future decisions. And you could say at the moment it was the worst possible decision for the child, but that may have saved the child from worse trouble in the future. So I'm certainly not advocating that the child should do that. But what I'm saying is, if you want the culture of judging a decision in isolation, it is not necessarily one which

helps with our growth. I think we should look at these decisions as a string, as part of a system. Joseph Bicard is my guest. He's a British-based investment banker who has really studied this whole idea of decision-making and procrastination and indecision. And he's written a really interesting book called The Art of Decision-Making, How We Move from Indecision to Smart Choices. Hi, this is Rob Benedict. And I am Richard Spate. We were both on a little show you might know called Supernatural. It had a pretty good run, 15 seasons, 327 episodes. And though we have seen, of course, every episode many times, we figured, hey, now that we're wrapped, let's watch it all again.

And we can't do that alone. So we're inviting the cast and crew that made the show along for the ride. We've got writers, producers, composers, directors, and we'll of course have some actors on as well, including some certain guys that played some certain pretty iconic brothers. It was kind of a little bit of a left field choice in the best way possible. The note from Kripke was, he's great, we love him, but we're looking for like a really intelligent Duchovny type.

With 15 seasons to explore, it's going to be the road trip of several lifetimes. So please join us and subscribe to Supernatural then and now. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you should know, are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared.

It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson, discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for.

Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. So Joseph, one of the traditional classic ideas on how to make a decision is to sit down with a piece of paper and list the pros on one side and the cons on the other side. And, you know, that's a way of making a decision. Is that a good way of making a decision? The notion of dividing a sheet of paper by a line into two columns is something that actually was invented, supposedly, by Benjamin Franklin. He certainly wrote about it. And he was giving advice to a friend and saying, that's exactly what I do.

I divide my page in two, and I write the pros on one side and the cons on the other side. And then what I do is, when one element on the left has the same weight as two elements on the right, I strike all three. And that's how he would decide. He would do a long list on the left, a long list on the right, and then according to the weight of each element, strike out all these things until there were a few left, and then he would be able to make a much more informed and better decision. Now, this notion of the pros and cons can be misleading.

And the reason for that is, if we believe what Freud had to say about it, which I happen to do, Freud said, when making a decision of minor importance, I've always found it advantageous to consider all the pros and cons. So he wasn't against it. But he said in vital matters, such as choosing a wife or a husband or choosing a profession, the decision should come from the unconscious. In those important decisions of our personal life, we should be governed by our deeper inner needs. So absolutely in favor of the pros and cons as a starting point.

And I think, as Freud said, on the less important decisions, it's a great formula. But when it comes to something much more meaningful, something much more important, we need to dig deeper. One of the things that you've said that really resonates with me and that I've always believed and that I think helps me be a better decision maker is this idea that so many of the decisions that we struggle with, do I paint the wall blue or green? Do we sit on the window or the aisle?

Do we travel on Thursday or Friday? That at the moment, it seems like this is such an important decision, very quickly becomes inconsequential. That it isn't even so much this doesn't matter in the long run, it only matters in the moment. It doesn't really even matter in the short run, for the most part. That most of these kinds of decisions don't matter, so if you can make them, not struggle over them,

not worry about looking back and wondering what if you'd made the other one, and just move on. Absolutely. It doesn't matter as long as you have honestly thought about it, considered the options, and then came to the conclusion that it doesn't matter. It's not an invitation to be irresponsible. It's still an invitation to do your homework, to think about it carefully, and then to commit to a decision. But it's really the recipe to avoid procrastination and indecision. And, you know, I'm really inspired by one line in theater

which is probably the most famous line in theater. And that's a line that's used by the most famous procrastinator in theater, and that's Hamlet. And you know, he says, to be or not to be, that is the question. Well, interestingly, that's not what Shakespeare wrote when he first wrote Hamlet. The first version of Hamlet has a different line. It says, to be or not to be. That's the point. So what Shakespeare is indicating is that life is not about choosing between A and B. The question is not, am I this or am I that? Do I choose this or do I choose that? The question

is already answered. There's the point. The point is that we are able to decide between A and B. It's not whether we commit to A or to B. And I think that's what's got to be nurtured, celebrated in humans, is precisely the fact that we are able to make these choices. Well, what's interesting to me about procrastination is people put off making a decision thinking that they've put off making a decision. But in fact, procrastinating is in and of itself a decision thinking that they've put off making a decision, but in fact procrastinating is in and of itself a decision. You've decided not to decide, so now you have this weight of decision still hanging over you because you

didn't choose and that is itself a decision. You're absolutely right and that's very insightful. The fact that we do not decide on what to do is a decision in itself. It's not the lack of a decision. So there is a myth around procrastination, that procrastination is just postponing a decision. And that's absolutely wrong. Procrastination means I decide today that I'm not going to decide, and then I have to move this decision anyway.

So what I'm avoiding is one decision, but because I'm avoiding one decision, I have to move this decision anyway so what I'm avoiding is one decision but because I'm avoiding one decision I have to make two decisions one today do I decide today or not and one tomorrow if I if I move it forward so procrastination is not the solution it's actually making our life twice as difficult right and I've I've always sensed that one of the reasons people procrastinate anything is it compresses the amount of time that things have to be done, whether it's making a decision or writing a paper, and that pressure of having to make the decision or do something quickly and under pressure. I think some people like that. Yes, there is a reality behind that, and that was part of

the research of Professor Csikszentmihalyi from Chicago University, which showed that when we are at our best, when we function at our best, is when we're in flow. And the principle of flow is one that comes from doing something that uses all our skills in a situation which is challenging. So you could say that there is something almost pernicious about not deciding today because by moving this decision to tomorrow, by adding a long list of things to do tomorrow, I will then be in a challenging situation which will ask me to use all my skills. But again, that's where self-awareness is so important. If this is my pattern, if this is how I behave, I'm living half a life because I may be in flow tomorrow when all these things

add up and pile up. But what am I doing today? Well, apparently not making a decision is what I'm doing today. I've been speaking with Joseph Bicart. He is a British-based investment banker, and he's author of the book The Art of Decision Making, How We Move from Indecision to Smart Choices. And you will find a link to his book at Amazon in the show notes for this episode. Thank you, Joseph. Thanks for joining me. Okay, Mike, thank you so much. It's been a

pleasure talking to you today. Hey, everyone, join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa Demonts, for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? Each week, we deliver four fun-filled shows. In Don't Blame Me, we tackle our listeners' dilemmas with hilariously honest advice. Then we have But Am I Wrong?, which is for the listeners that didn't take our advice. Plus we share our hot takes on current events. Then tune in to see you next Tuesday for our Lister poll results from, but am I wrong? And finally wrap up your week with fisting Friday, where we catch up and talk all things pop culture. Listen to don't blame me, but am I wrong on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. Do you love Disney?

Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. There is nothing we don't cover. We are famous for rabbit holes disney themed games and fun facts you didn't know you needed but you definitely need in

your life so if you're looking for a healthy dose of disney magic check out disney countdown wherever you get your podcasts you've probably heard stories or seen pictures of how some companies allow for a lot of fun and playtime for their employees. But I suspect most of us work in places where people are not riding their skateboards down the hallway or playing ping pong or video games on their coffee break. But what about the concept of fun at work? Does it have a place? Could fun at work actually make the workplace better and make the people more productive? And if so, what kind of fun? Well, here to discuss this is Dave Crenshaw.

Dave is a leadership expert, a speaker, and a trainer who has written five books, one of which is called The Power of Having Fun. Hi Dave, thanks for being on Something You Should Know. Thanks, glad to be on, Mike. So let's start with the benefits of having fun at work. I mean, other than being cool to let your employees play and have fun, what's the benefit of introducing the concept of having fun at work as opposed to, we're here to work, so let's all go

work? Well, the biggest reason is that it boosts productivity. I'm a productivity guy. I'm a very tactical, practical, let's get things done sort of mindset. And the reality is when you schedule time to have fun, when you make it not something that gets fit in at the end of the day if you got your work done, but if you make it a top priority, everyone's performance improves overall. There's a lot of research plus a lot of just field experience on my own coaching people that backs that claim up. Okay. So define fun for me as it applies to the workplace. What does that mean to introduce fun and have fun? One distinction that I make is the difference between just fun as a concept and having fun. And the reason why I make that distinction is because

to me, fun is an action. It is a verb. And so we want to make having fun a priority, meaning we're going to take action on doing it. And so that would be things like what? The answer is it depends because the best answer is whatever is fun to you. Every person has something that they enjoy doing. For instance, my oasis, my daily personal oasis, is to play video games for 30 minutes. Now, that may sound like a strange thing for a 42-year-old man to admit publicly. But for some people, it's going for a walk or it's walking around their building listening to their favorite music. One manager that I worked with, he's into MMA, so for him, it was shadowboxing for 15 minutes. The key is choosing something that you enjoy doing, not something that you feel that you're supposed to

do. But how do you then incorporate that into your day? Where do you put it, and how do you get permission to do it, and how long does it last, and that kind of thing? Yeah, well, you used a great word, which is permission. And as I go through The Power of Having Fun, I talk about the five steps that people have to go through. And the first one is we need to agree that this is a good thing. So many people feel guilty about taking a little bit of time to do this when, in fact, when you do it, you'll perform better,

which is why you want to make it a top priority. So first is permission, and then second is discovery, going through that process of figuring out what you want to do. And then that leads us to probably the most important step, which is schedule. You want to find a consistent time, a consistent rhythm that you can get into where it's in your day, you count on it. It's not something that you get for good behavior. You know, pat yourself on the back. Mike was a good boy. He gets to it. It's not something that you get for good behavior. You know, pat yourself on the back.

Mike was a good boy. He gets to play. It's not like that. It's a priority, and you schedule it, and then you have to protect it in your day. I suspect there are a lot of employers, managers who would frown on this because it seems like fluff. It seems like we're indulging people for the sake of indulging people, and what we really need to do is get to work. Let's just take a look at some of the science behind it. Many people are aware that dopamine is a chemical that helps us feel good.

What they may not be aware of is that dopamine is a necessary chemical to help us perform better. There was a study out of the University of Washington where they were studying mice and one group they deprived of the natural occurring chemical of dopamine. And they kept repeating this task over and over. And the interesting thing about it is no matter how many times they did it, the group that was deprived of dopamine, their times got worse, their performance degraded over time. Whereas the group that had the naturally occurring dopamine, their times got better and they increased performance. Now, how does that relate to the workplace? Well, we're not mice, but some of us are treating ourselves and maybe even our employees like they're rats in a maze. And we have to allow people to have that in ourselves. We have to allow ourselves to have that moment to just do something with no point other than enjoyment,

because that replenishes our reserves and improves our performance during the rest of the day. I imagine a natural inclination would be if we're going to introduce fun into the workplace, and because we have all these people here, we need to introduce fun as a group activity, that we need to all have fun together, and that'll be good. And honestly, that's a common mistake that people make. I'm not saying that having fun with people doesn't have value. In fact, one quarter of the book is dedicated toward having fun with the key relationships in our lives, whether that's our spouse or our children or our best buddy or just our dog. It's important for us to have those kinds of interactions. But when it comes to the

workplace, one of the biggest mistakes that executives make is assuming that what they like to do for fun is what everyone else will want to do for fun. So they say, well, let's have a company bowling day or golf day or whatever. Then they have this big event and everybody goes out. Well, that works for the 40% of their people who love bowling or golf, but it actually alienates the other 60%. So instead, what I recommend is a strategy more like what LinkedIn does. LinkedIn has something called in days and they're dedicated days in each month where they allow people the freedom to do something of their choosing within the day. Now, they give a suggested theme and some possible activities that they could do around that theme, but in the end, it's self-directed, and self-directed fun is the most powerful kind of fun.

Now, another company that does something like this is Kiva. They have what they call adult recess. And they provide space and time in the day where people can get together and do whatever they want. So if they want to do something together, that's great. But if someone wants to be by themselves and just watch funny videos on YouTube, that's also acceptable. When you talk to people about this, I imagine there is some pushback. So what is the big objection to this? One of the biggest things that I run into is not so much the objection,

but the logistical challenge of it. In other words, well, I schedule it in my day, but work is just going too fast. I have too much to do. I can't take the time to do this. And so we can do some things to inoculate ourselves against some of these objections or obstacles is probably a better word. For instance, first of all, we have to have it scheduled, but we can also make sure that our schedule just before and after the activity isn't packed tight. You want to have buffer time in your day.

And this is actually just a general principle of solid time management in the 21st century, is not scheduling your calendar completely full because you will be interrupted. And so if you have a little bit of buffer room in your schedule, you have room to breathe, to handle those interruptions so that you're not tempted to say, well, this having fun thing that I scheduled, this OASIS, this is a low priority, so it's okay if it gets pushed off. No, we already have time set aside for the interruptions,

but you must protect that time. So that's just one of the many things that I see can be a challenge to having fun. And you said at the beginning that there's science behind this. Can I hear a little of that? What's the proof that this really is effective? Sure. Well, I mentioned the study out of the University of Washington in terms of the role of dopamine. There are also studies, you know, things like in terms of the role of dopamine. There are also studies, you know, things like in terms of the great places to work, where they look at which of the top rated companies, this is done by Fortune, right? And they survey and they do research into

which companies people want to work at. There is one, they ask a series of questions to people. One question they ask is, this is a great place to work, right? Yes or no, do you agree with this? Another question they ask that correlates most strongly with their response to this is a great place to work is, this is a fun place to work. In other words, from a cultural standpoint, if you want to have a great company, you need to have a place that's considered a fun company. So that's one side of it. The other side of it is there's a study done by the Energy Project

and the Harvard Business Review where they took a look at how often people are encouraged to take breaks. And people who were encouraged to take breaks. And people who were encouraged to take breaks every 90 minutes or at least three breaks per day were far more likely to want to stay with their company. They reported better health levels. They reported better creativity and better focus. And yet, a very small percent of people, less than 20% of companies encourage people to take breaks that frequently. So we're depriving ourselves

and our workforce of the very thing that would help us retain people and get better results in terms of productivity. Do you ever find that people say, you know what, I don't think I want to do this. I mean, when I'm at work, I just want to stay focused on what I'm doing, maybe grab a bite of lunch and then get right back to work, that this has no appeal to me. Sure, I hear that occasionally. And so the perspective that I take is, look, I can lather you up with all of the scientific studies that I can find. But in the end, this isn't about the experiment of other people. This is about the experiment of you.

So when I'm coaching somebody, when I'm working with a client privately, I say, look, don't take my word for it. Let's create a schedule. Let's just try it out. And so we figure out what their oasis is. We create a schedule for it. and we just say, we're going to test this. No matter how you feel about this in the moment or whether or not you feel this is going to help you be more productive, I want you to do it consistently for two weeks, and then we're going to reassess your results and see what comes out of it. Personally, I have never found anyone that when we do this, they don't say, you know what? Not only do I feel better, but I was working a lot harder in the times in between. That's sort of the secret that I don't lead with because it's not, no one wants to hear this.

But the reality is when you schedule these OASIS and keep them consistently, it motivates you to be more focused and be a harder worker overall. What are some of the other effects, good or bad, the unintended consequences of having more fun at work? First of all, on the work standpoint, people are going to feel closer to each other because they have this opportunity to interact with each other outside of the normal flow of business. It does create this sort of a bonding experience. It also is going to reduce stress overall. So, I mean, we can go at length about the impacts of stress in the workplace. So if you have a workforce that's less stressed, they're going to perform better. There's also, though, an interesting thing on the family side, on the personal side.

There's a study published by the American, I'm going to mess it up, I think it was the American Psychological Association, that talks about the work-home resources model. And essentially what it discovered was when you have better relationships with people at home, you perform better at work and vice versa. So taking time to do this, not just at work, but outside of it, gives you a reservoir of strength that you can use to perform better when you go to work each day. So it's hard to find fault with this. So why do you suppose there's resistance and why isn't everybody doing it? Guilt is one of the biggest obstacles? Guilt and a lack of understanding. There really is something that we have been taught from the beginning that we should focus, that we should keep our heads down.

I am not saying that hard work does not have value. To the contrary, as I mentioned, people do work harder when they do this. But what I'm saying is relentless, unstoppable work is not the most productive way to do things. The sweet spot for most people is around 90 to 120 minutes. This is based on something called the ultradian rhythm, which is the cousin to the circadian rhythm, which was discovered by a sleep researcher. We perform best, all of us, in a cycle of around 90 to 120 minutes. So we push to that point, then we stop, then we take a break, do something fun,

and then go back to work and we return to the previous levels that we were at before. Most people feel guilty about that moment of taking a break, which is why it's so important for me to begin with that concept of you have permission. And if you don't believe you have permission, believe that I'm giving you permission and just try it, just test it out and prove whether or not what I'm saying is true for you. Yeah, and I think anybody who has really tried to push themselves hour after hour knows that their performance suffers, their work suffers as a result, and that you need to be able to take breaks. And now you've given everyone permission to do that.

My guest has been Dave Crenshaw. He is a leadership expert, a speaker, and author of the book, The Power of Having Fun. You'll find a link to his book in the show notes. Thanks, Dave. Well, thanks a lot, Mike. If you have a lawn, there's a good chance you're watering it too much. And here's how you can find out. First, get yourself some tuna fish cans. Eat the tuna first and then clean out the cans and then put the cans around the lawn. The more tuna cans you can round up, the better.

Then you turn your sprinklers on and check the time. When the cans have about an inch of water in them, check the time again and turn off the water. Now you know how long to let your sprinklers run. The EPA says grass needs about an inch of water a week to stay healthy, and that includes any rain they get as well. Most people actually water their grass too much, which encourages the growth of weeds and waste water. When you mow, you should only cut about one-third of the grass height and leave the clippings there and make sure you clean up the tuna cans. And that is something you should know.

Impress your friends by sharing this podcast with them. On most podcast platforms, including most likely the one you're listening on right now, there's probably a share button which you can send to your friends, and I'm sure they and I will be eternally grateful. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager,

but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions,

and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. traveling medical investigator. Join me as I study the secrets of the divine plagues and uncover the blasphemous truth

that ours is not a loving God and we are not its favored children. The Heresies of Randolph Bantwine, wherever podcasts are available.