Something You Should Know - How to Ooze Self-Confidence & The Magic of Doing What You’re Good At

Episode Date: February 1, 2018

When you fly on an airplane – you think things. Like: “How good, is the air I’m breathing? Will I get drunker than normal if I drink at 35,000 feet? What if some lunatic tries to open the airplane door during the flight?” I’ll reveal the answers to these and other common questions about air travel. Some people seem to be born with a lot of self-confidence. But most of us are not. So how do we increase our confidence and project it to the world? Psychotherapist Sheenah Hankin, author of the book, Complete Confidence (http://amzn.to/2El5bV0) has some excellent strategies to increase your confidence that you can put into practice immediately. The U.S. Postal Service is a part of everyone’s life. And sometimes it seems that they can make your life difficult. So, I have some tips from actual postal employees to help you navigate the postal service with more efficiency and do it in less time. Are you doing what you are really good at? Or do you work in a job that leaves your true skills idle and untouched? Sir Kenneth Robinson, author the book,  Finding Your Element: How to Discover Your Talents and Passions and Transform Your Life (http://amzn.to/2GAxyPP) explores ways to discover what you do well and then find ways to incorporate those things into your life. It’s important because when you do what you are good at and it is something you find satisfying, it can transform your life. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today on Something You Should Know, just how good is the air you breathe on an airplane? I'll explore this and other common questions about flying. Then, some people are born with self-confidence, but the rest of us have to create it. How do you do that? We have to give up our excuses and we really have to comfort ourselves and do the things that we fear. My ambition for everyone is to do everything you fear that isn't actually dangerous. Also, I'll share some great ways to save time and money at the post office. And the magic of doing what you love.

Like the story of one particular fireman who followed his dream. I said, when did you decide to be a fireman? He said, well, you know, I always wanted to be a fireman. He said, I had one teacher who just wasn't encouraging me at all. He said, I was throwing my life away if all I wanted to do was become a fireman. Six months ago, I saved his life. I think he thinks better of me now. All this today on Something You Should Know.

As a listener to Something You Should Know, I can only assume that you are someone who likes to learn about new and interesting things and bring more knowledge to work for you in your everyday life. I mean, that's kind of what Something You Should Know was all about. And so I want to invite you to listen to another podcast called TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done TED Talks. Well, you see, TED Talks Daily is a podcast that brings you a new TED Talk every weekday in less than 15 minutes.

Join host Elise Hu. She goes beyond the headlines so you can hear about the big ideas shaping our future. Learn about things like sustainable fashion, embracing your entrepreneurial spirit, the future of robotics, and so much more. Like I said, if you like this podcast, Something You Should Know, I'm pretty sure you're going to like TED Talks Daily. And you get TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts.

And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Well, this is very cool. And yes, I am bragging. But January just ended and we had an all-time record month of people who downloaded and listened to this program. We came in at just shy of three quarters of a million people in one month, and that's up 150,000 over December. So I thank you for sharing and telling other people about this podcast, because it continues to grow leaps and bounds.

And whatever you did in January, please do it again in February. And double it. Tell more people. We're on our way to a million listens a month. First up today, I don't know how much time you spend on an airplane, but when you're on an airplane, you have time to think about airplanes. And you hear a lot of things about airplanes, some things that are true and some things that are not so true. For example, you've heard that if you leave your cell phone turned on, that somehow that's going to cause the plane to crash. Well, the truth is, aviation guidelines only require you to turn off your cell phone

because there is a tiny chance that it could interfere with the systems of the aircraft. But with that said, no one has actually proven it to cause a problem. Still, it's technically a rule and the crew must abide by it. You've probably heard that the air that you breathe on an airplane is terrible. Well, this may surprise you, but the air on an airplane is actually very clean, more so than any other small space you might inhabit. The air on an airplane is regularly replaced by pressurized air from outside. Plus, it passes through hospital-quality filters that remove 99.97% of germs, like airborne bacteria and viruses.

So if you do get sick from the airplane, and lots of people claim they do, it is most likely coming from the surfaces you touch, not from the air that you breathe. I've heard this, that you get drunker on an airplane if you drink alcohol, but studies show that while altitude can make you sleepier, it doesn't have any effect on your blood alcohol level. And here's one. Have you ever wondered, as you're sitting there on the airplane at 35,000 feet, what if some lunatic ran up and tried to open the door?

Would we all just get sucked right out? Well, the fact is that when the plane is at cruising altitude, the inside of the plane is pressurized, which means it would take superhuman strength to pry open that airplane door, so it is virtually impossible. And that is something you should know. Some people just exude confidence.

They're so sure of themselves. They seem to know what they're talking about. They control the room and people pay attention to them. Other people struggle with confidence. They doubt themselves. They worry about what other people think. And they think others are thinking very critical thoughts about them. So how can we be more self-confident? How can we not let

what other people think or what we think other people think about us crush our belief in ourselves? Sheena Hankin is a psychotherapist in New York City, and she has spent a long time working with people to help build their confidence. And she is author of the book, Complete Confidence. Hello, Sheena. So why, in your experience, why do you think that some people are just more naturally self-confident than others? I think some people are more fortunate in their backgrounds. I think they're brought up by people who have more confidence than others. They don't know it, but they in fact give that to their children just as we give everything else to our children. And so you have confident parents or at least

one confident parent or grandparents and influences like that. We can grow up seeing the world as a safe place that's manageable and that when bad things do happen, as they do to everyone, that you can react to it maturely in a problem-solving fashion. The rest of us, including me, didn't get so fortunate. We can be loved a lot, but we may not be given the guidance to do that, Mike. But it would seem that if you grew up with this general lack of confidence, that as an adult now, it would be hard to get. I think that's a way to, in fact, sound a bit powerless around it, Mike.

I mean, I think the brain's always in a state of adaption. You know, that's a wonderful thing about a human brain. We're always striving at some level to be mature, to do better. I mean, people, you know, you look at the self-help books like mine. I mean, people read things, they try things, they listen to the Internet. They look to find ways to do better in life. And so I think I'm appealing to that strong sense of survival to say, no, it isn't a daunting task. It's a wonderful thing to try and do.

And like any new skills, it's always more difficult at the beginning. But even if you learn to drive, it's tough at the beginning. You think you can't put it all together. But when you learn to drive your brain, it gets easier. And one day you do it automatically. So we can make confidence an automatic thing if you really start out and see it as a skill. You know, there are those people who can walk into a room and just exude confidence and people are drawn to them. And then there are the people who walk into a room and immediately start to think, you know, people are looking at me, people are judging me. The thought process is like in reverse.

Absolutely, and that's a good place to start. Because people like that are actually creating their own painful anxiety and shame. By having that point of view that everyone feels about me the way I feel about me. And having done a lot of research on that, Mike, people make very, very sort of instant judgments about people. And it's very much like this. Do I like this person? Do they seem safe? Does this person seem risky and somehow dangerous to me? Very simple animal responses. So if you go in there and you're in your own head and you're worrying about what people think, you come across sometimes even as arrogant or distant and hard to reach. And that's a way not to be popular.

What you've got to do is say, we have no clue what people think. And it really doesn't matter what people think. We've got to go in there and be open, look people in the eye and tell myself, you know, I am myself. I'm not going to make up stories about what's in other people's heads. And I don't do that, Mike, and I'm a shrink. You said a moment ago that we think other people think of us the way we think of us. So you're saying then that if you walk into a room of people and you immediately think that these people are judging you, they're thinking less of you, they think you're less than they are, that that's what you think of you?

That is what you think of you. It is what you feel about yourself, and that's what the problem is. You have a habit of feeling this way about yourself. You never got over that, you know, early stage, oh, kids are self-critical. We know what it's like to be a kid, and your friends don't like you, and you're devastated. Kids don't have a strong sense of self. But if we go on into adulthood, for whatever reason, still being self-critical, still judging ourselves, calling ourselves stupid, fat, old, ugly, or a loser, that's my favorite five. They're the five most common things people say about themselves.

I'm stupid, I'm fat, I'm old, I'm ugly, loser, any combination of those things. And we're feeling shame all the time. We're going to think that other people are seeing what we feel. We have no way of doing that. So what I want people to do is to work on not being self-critical. I have a formula for doing that in my book, and challenging their thinking and comforting that feeling that's really not real. Feelings are not real, and feelings are not to be trusted.

That's what I keep saying. You know, we were raised in the 70s, 80s to think feelings should be trusted. Well, you know, I'd have killed all my children, Mike, if I trusted my feelings at times. They're bad things to listen to if they're negative like that. I love that, that feelings are not to be trusted. But can you go through those five things again that you mentioned very briefly? Can you go through them again in a little more detail? Yeah, the five most common thoughts or habit of thinking that people have go like this, categories. First one is, I'm stupider than other people. The second one is so prevalent

and so painful, I'm fat. And I'm fat, and people are not going to respect me like I don't, because I'm fat. In the sort of generation now, baby boomers, I'm old. I'm too old. I'm too old to be taken seriously and respected. I'm too old to do anything new. Stupid, fat, old, ugly. You know, there's something ugly about me. I'm a short guy. I'm not as a pretty woman as I'd like to be. I have wrinkles. All kinds of ways that people put themselves out for being so-called ugly. And the collective noun of all of those things is somehow in life I'm a loser. And that's a feeling.

It's not a fact. But if you feel it, you'll act on it. And you'll act against yourself. So I'm extremely keen on people giving up any of those five combinations. And you get a room of people, you'll find the stupids, you know, the fats, the olds, the uglies, and the losers. It's a common category, and all of us have had some of those things, and that's the first place to start. Self-criticism is self-defeating. Do you think that feeling that way, feeling that self-criticism

causes you to act a certain way, which is self-defeating, or do you think that you can change the action and that will help change the feeling? You can do it all at once. You can challenge your thinking. You can really, really, really decide to do what's right in life and not what you feel like. Sometimes that means taking a risk. That means lifting up the phone and calling that person you're frightened to call. It means asking for the raise, asking for the date. You can plan an action and take it. And the third thing, most importantly, and manage the feeling. Manage it to reduce it so you're freer to begin to change your life. And I'm really talking about life-changing policy, changing your

thoughts, changing your feelings, and managing your behavior all at the same time. But how do you change a thought? Hey, by challenging it. I mean, people believe their feelings. You know, if I think I'm a stupid person, you're going against a theory of mine that I think has a lot of weight, that people are very smart. Everybody is very smart. And anyone else who calls others stupid

or themselves stupid, particularly others, is making a big mistake and underestimating other people. And I worked with hundreds and hundreds of people, all kinds of educational levels, even no educational level. I find people to be extremely smart. And if they're going to go around

calling themselves stupid, you know, they're really going to undermine their actions. They're not going to be ambitious. They're not going to believe they can do it. They'll tell me, I didn't do well in school. Well, school's no measure of intelligence at all. Some people have academic aptitude. Others don't.

But it's no measure of intelligence at all. People are very, very smart. In fact, I think people are brilliant. But people whose brains are full of shame and self-pity are underachievers. And I think in this country really suffers from something very serious, and that is the fact that we talk about the price of gas being such a problem for the economy. What about the price of lack of confidence? All these people in the country are not fulfilling their potential, their dreams fulfilling their potential, their dreams, their ambitions, however big or small,

who have difficult relationships and don't know why. And if we could only get them to work on the things that I lay out for them, which is done as a handbook, you know, you can work your way through it, you can find that you can release all your potential. It's really true. I did it myself. I came from nothing. No money, four kids, you know, and not much hope. I've helped an awful lot of people at various levels of their lives to do this, and I wanted to go to a larger public.

How big a part do you think hope plays in confidence? I think hope plays a lot of a part because it's a thought. Hope is a belief in the future. You see, everyone who's depressed, and I don't believe that most of these people who are on antidepressants are depressed. I think a small category I know of tend to be negative about the future. They tend to, you know, see the world from a dark perspective. Bad things are going to happen.

You know, it's all disasters in the future, and I've got to be prepared against that. Well, no one can fortune tell the future. You can look at history, if you like, and see that things come and go. But I want people to see the world, luckily for us, living in America as we do, as a safe place, as a place that has a lot of opportunity, that is not out to get you, that is not out to defeat you. I'm not saying it's easy, but the opportunity lies out

there and you're sort of well able to take charge of whatever you have and make that happen for you, whatever that is, whatever that is. I'm speaking with Sheena Hankin. She's a psychotherapist in New York City and she's author of the book, Complete Confidence. You know, a great website can say so much. It can be the focal point of your business or organization or your passion or your hobby. But you're likely under the impression that building a great website is hard. You've got to find somebody who knows how to do it and all kinds of things can go wrong and it takes forever. But none of that is true anymore. Not with Squarespace. And this comes from my experience.

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So please join us and subscribe to Supernatural then and now. So Sheena, is this a long process or is there kind of a first aid approach? If you're in a situation where your thinking starts going down that rabbit hole, that spiral of self-criticism and all this is terrible and I'm losing my confidence, is there something you can do in that moment to stop it? Yes, really. First of all, write down all your negative thinking. Make a list of all your darkest thoughts. Take a deep breath, breathe slowly, and read it back to yourself.

It'll begin to look dramatic to you, short of some major crisis that we're not dealing with. If your house burns down, it's a bit different. But read them back to you. No, I can't stand this. This is terrible. I'm overwhelmed. I'll never get out of this hole. Just listen to that, right?

Wait a minute. Let's reduce the emotion in that. Let's rewrite, then rewrite the list. I'd say this is a difficult situation. I have a set of decisions to make. I can calm my anxiety if I breathe slowly and tell myself that somehow it'll work out, and then you can begin to make decisions. It's a whole different way to look at it. But write down your feelings. I used to do that thinking all the time,

and I was almost embarrassed reading it back about how dramatic it was. Do you know what I mean? Sure, sure. But does it really come down to what you're trying to do here in gaining confidence? Is what you're really doing is trying to convince yourself that you're really not as bad as you think you are? It's convincing yourself you're not bad at all. I mean, what a judgment that is. I mean, are human beings bad? No, I don't think so at all. I mean, if you look around you, I can walk down the street. I don't expect anyone to hurt me. I don't expect anyone to treat me badly. I might find some bad-tempered person who's a little nasty for a minute,

but that hardly makes them bad. Human beings are very good people who want to get along. And that itself is a whole change of attitude. Even your bad-tempered husband or your difficult mother-in-law, she really wants to get along. You know, people are social animals unless they're extremely disturbed, and very few people are in that category. So give me a couple of examples from your experience,

some how-to things that can really help kickstart this process of gaining more confidence. Well, the first thing is the one we've covered. I want to do it again, is write down your thinking. Write down all of your negative thinking and write a challenge to it. Particularly take the drama out of it. Look for self-criticism and self-pity and try and squeeze that out of your thinking.

Rewrite it and look at it again. You can text it. You can do all kinds of, put it on your computer so you can revisit it. And then you'll see that you're actually overreacting. The next thing you can do is really, really look at self-criticism in your life. Practice walking into rooms and just not doing that. Practice walking into a room and speaking up and saying, I'm going to say what's on my mind.

I'm going to say it simply and kindly and directly and I'm going to let it hang where it may. I'm not going to make up that people won't like me, will like me, and cease to impress people. I think stop pleasing people. This is a surprising one to say, but an awful lot of women spend their lives trying to be good people by pleasing others, by not putting their own needs second

and being very resentful and sorry for themselves because it's a tough way to live. Instead, follow my great belief, my philosophic belief that we have to sit with ourselves and say, Sheena, what's the right thing to do at this moment in time? And if the right thing is to disappoint somebody, let me do it kindly. But let me do the right thing, not what somebody else wants. So don't be a pleaser. That's one of the most common things people get depressed eventually about.

And finally, manage your feelings. No raging and sulking. Raging and sulking is for three-year-olds. If you're angry, make a statement about what you're angry about, if it's appropriate, without blame. Like I was upset when you inadvertently, I don't know, whatever, took something of mine that you didn't mean to, or you forgot to do something you said you'd do, or you left me waiting for half an hour when we were supposed to meet. I was upset. It troubled me.

I didn't love that. But don't say, you know, what kind of person are you to do this to me? Take the blame out of your language. Take the blame out of your language in your head. I think blame is something that really gets us out of the responsibility for our part in the problem. I think blame is something that really gets us out of the responsibility for our part in the problem. It just causes fights. So there's a few things to do. My major premise is in this book is to help people to manage these negative emotions in a mature, confident way.

So you can not sail through life, but you can really go through life in a state of calm and comfort, knowing that you can confidently deal with whatever comes your way. You know, just hearing you talk about this in the way that you do is comforting to people that this is not only possible, this is very doable if you're willing to make it a priority and make the effort. Because I think a lot of people don't see this as a choice. No, they don't. They label themselves, I'm an anxious person,

I'm a depressed person, I have a terrible metabolism, I can never lose weight, I can't really expect, I don't know enough to run a business, do you know what I mean? I just can't do it, I'm too stupid. They really damage their own confidence by having fixed ideas about the human brain, about their own brain. I mean, none of us are inadequate. None of us are stupid. None of us have the handicaps that we feel we have. You know, people, mostly people, if they have hopes and ambitions, they're usually reasonable. I'm not talking necessarily work. I'm talking about getting a relationship or, you know, a hobby, a new thing you want to do.

If you have an idea of doing that and it's not happening, then you're in your own way. If you're procrastinating, it's a way to make yourself not succeed. It's a terrible feeling. And you're not going to get there. I always say therapy shouldn't cost you money. People come and see me. I'm not cheap, Mike. I have a big practice in Manhattan. But it shouldn't cost you money because you should

achieve what you want to achieve as a result of it. And that's what my book does. Wait a minute, you just said that therapy shouldn't cost money, but you charge people a lot of money. I charge people a lot of money, but I expect them to go out and get the benefits they want, and I feel it was worth it. I have people say to me, and I don't want to be self-congratulatory, but it's a true quote. I had somebody say to me, you know, it was worth double what I paid you. Look where I am now. How much of this problem that you're talking about, how much of this lack of self-confidence comes from the worry of what other people think?

Well, you know, I like to say there's really basically three kinds of procrastinators. The first kind is the perfectionist, who thinks they can avoid criticism, right, by producing a perfection in whatever they're trying to do. And of course, it's a nightmare to do that. You put hours and hours into things that don't necessarily need that long, and you eventually get tired of it and you can't get yourself to do it. You know, all perfectionists to a degree are procrastinators.

Then you've got the true slackers in life, and there's less of these. Often younger teenagers think it should be easy. You know, it should be easy. Why is it so difficult? Poor me, that's the self-pity. Poor me, this is too much for me. I'm overwhelmed.

They use dramatic dramatic you know victim words and they don't really seem to know that if you could manage that feeling and put that energy into saying i'll give it two hours and see what it looks like you know you'll begin to get a new pattern of behavior i overcame some of that and the final one of the people who are so anxious so anxious that they just can't, you know, they can't bear the feeling of starting anything. They just can't because they're so self-critical. It's not going to work.

It's not going to be any good. I'm going to get a C, an F, a D. My boss isn't going to like it. It's above my pay grade. You know, all those negative critical statements that they put off doing this thing because they feel it'll be terrible. They tell themselves, I do better under pressure. That's one of the ultimate lies in the world.

No one does better under pressure, and the research indicates that. So we have to give up our excuses, and we really have to comfort ourselves, which I tell people, teach people how to do. Comfort that brain and do the things that we fear. My ambition for everyone is to do everything you fear that isn't actually dangerous. Ooh, imagine if everybody did that. Do everything you're afraid of that isn't actually dangerous. That would be a real confidence builder, wouldn't it?

Sheena Hankin has been my guest. She's a psychotherapist in New York and author of the book Complete Confidence. There's a link to her book in the show notes for this episode of the podcast. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like something you should know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest.

Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes. Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back, and in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed, critical thinker. Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you

in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. Join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa Demonts, for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? Each week, we deliver four fun-onts, for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? Each week, we deliver four fun-filled shows. In Don't Blame Me, we tackle our listeners' dilemmas with hilariously honest advice. Then we have But Am I Wrong?, which is for the listeners that didn't take

our advice. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events. Then tune in to see you next Tuesday for our Lister poll results from But Am I Wrong? And finally, wrap up your week with Fisting Friday, where we catch up and talk all things pop culture. Listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. You've probably heard that a lot of people work in jobs they don't like. Some surveys have even shown that a majority of workers in the United States would rather be doing something else. So if they'd rather be doing something else, why don't they go do that? Why don't they quit? Wouldn't they be happier? And if they don't like what they're doing, what is it they should do that? Why don't they quit? Wouldn't they be happier? And if they don't like what they're doing, what is it they should do instead? If you've ever thought about any of those questions, or if any of that applies to you, you need to hear my first guest today on the podcast.

Sir Kenneth Robinson is a teacher, writer, researcher, and speaker, and he's author of a book called Finding Your Element, How to Discover Your Talents and Passion and Transform Your Life. Hi, Kenneth. So I think we have to start with the question, why? Why do apparently so many people stay in jobs they would rather not be doing? I think it's because a lot of people, firstly, don't really understand their own talents, their own abilities. They're often not sure what they would enjoy doing. I think the second is that

people get stuck into habits. You know, they acquire responsibilities. They have families or mortgages and bills, and they feel they can't move and they get worn down by it. And I think a third reason just now is people are frightened of making the wrong move. You know, they feel, well, if I've got a job, I'm just going to have to hang on to it for as long as possible. But at the same time, the interest and pleasure drains away from it. And so what is your message? What is it you bring to the table in this discussion?

There are several messages here. You know, one is that everybody has huge natural talents. A lot of people think they don't, you know, but we're all born with extraordinary talents and abilities. And anyone who's got children or works with children or anyone who's actually been a child, you know, will know that kids are born with great confidence, great ambitions, great imaginations. And they tend to wither very often as we get older because of often the pressures of other people. I think a lot is to do with education. I think people are pushed away sometimes from the natural talents.

But my first message to everybody is that we all have great natural talents. And we need to look for them and find them and start to develop them. Because I really do believe that the way that we can really get fulfillment in our lives is to discover the things that we can do best. And when we find the things we do best, I think we start to become the best that we can be. And I don't mean this in some kind of loose, liberal way. I think it's borne out by all kinds of experiences. You know, that when people do what they are good at and that they love to do, their whole life is transformed. And I think we owe it to ourselves to do that. That's the first big argument is about personal fulfillment. The second is, though, that in times of change like this, backing your own talents, looking for the things that you're naturally good at, is the best insurance. You know, if all the old bets are off,

if all the old industries that people have become used to aren't anymore, you know, the secure places they used to be, if people are actually being thrown out of work, this is the right time to rethink ourselves and to look again at what we could do and what we would like to do. So I don't think this is the time to back away from having confidence in your own talent. It's the right time to rethink ourselves and to look again at what we could do and what we would like to do. So I don't think this is a time to back away from having confidence in your own talent. It's the time to renew it and to start to really search for it properly. It seems to me that while that sounds great, that there are circumstances that this just won't work. I mean, if what you're really good at or as you look at what you've done in your life that you're really good at is when you were a child,

you were a ballet dancer and you love to be a ballet dancer and ballet was your thing. Well, okay. So you're 40 years old. You can't be a ballet dancer and make a living doing that. Actually, I had this very question a while ago from a lady who said that exact,

gave me that exact question. She'd always loved ballet when she was a kid and got pushed away from it. And she said, it's too late now. She was in her 40s. And I said, it's too late for what? She said, for ballet. Well, firstly, it isn't. People can dance at any age in their lives.

I mean, is it too late for her to take the lead in Capelia, you know, with the Royal Ballet in Britain or the Bolshoi? Probably. I think it's reasonable to say. I don't think I'm going to win the ski jump at the Winter Olympics, you know, honestly. So I'm not being unrealistic. But the point really is to say to her, and I did say to her, what is it about ballet that you love to do? And she said it was the movement, it was the grace of it, it was the physical exhilaration. And I said, have you tried other forms of dance as well? And she said,

actually, she'd recently taken up salsa dancing. And I said, how is that? She said, it's absolutely wonderful. You know, it's about firstly, of course, having some sense of realistic appraisal of limitations as you change and get older. But it's also trying to revisit what it was that ignited that passion in the first place. And there are many different ways often of getting to that again. And my other point, you know, is that I'm not saying always that these passions that I believe we can all find have to be how we make our living. Sometimes people don't want to do these things for a living. They would rather have it run alongside the things they do. But my experience is that when people find things that they love when they're in their element,

it enriches their lives in all kinds of ways they never expected. And if we do find that we're in a job that we can't get out of or that we need to stay in for whatever reason, then having your life enriched as well through things that you love to do, in my experience and all the people I've ever spoken to, also enriches that part of your life because you start to change. You start to become a different person. And I think we owe it to ourselves. Do you think that people have a single thing,

or do you think there are maybe a lot of things that they might be good at? Absolutely, yeah. I mean, I'm not inventing a law here. You know, I'm not legislating. I know people who have all sorts of things that they love to do. Often something may predominate. But, you know, I think that there's no statute of limitations on this. It's about exploring all the possibilities.

I mean, let me ask you, for example, when did you decide that you wanted to make a career doing what you do? Well, I was in radio almost my entire life, and I knew I wanted to be in radio when I was 13 years old. And why was that? I went to a radio station in my hometown in Connecticut, and I saw what was going on there, and I said, you know, this could be a career for me. And it has been. And it has been. And you still get the same pleasure from it. Well, it's different.

I mean, I'm not a rock and roll disc jockey like I used to be, but what I do now is get to interview people like you and get to weave that into a podcast, and that I truly love to do. And that's, I think, just a great example. You know, I remember you telling me the first time you walked into a radio station, you were blown away by it, weren't you? Absolutely. And my point about this, you know, is that other people have walked into radio stations and just walked straight out again and thought, oh, that was interesting. But they didn't think this is the portal to the rest of my life. But you did. Other people have that feeling when they walk into a gymnasium or a pool hall, you know, or a laboratory or a classroom.

And listening to yourself in those situations, you know, responding to that intuition, that gut feeling, that feeling people get, oh, my God, this is fantastic, you know, is the first step to finding your element. It's hearing yourself and not suppressing it. But what about all those people who never have that kind of magical moment? Well, what might have happened to you if you'd never walked into the radio station? It's about taking the opportunity, I think. And you're right, a lot of people feel they haven't found that thing yet. And it may be because they haven't looked, they haven't put themselves out, they haven't taken the opportunity, or maybe they suppressed it when it came along. See, I think it's a two-way journey for people.

Now, at whatever age you happen to be, the first is inward. It's to start to reflect on the times when you felt most connected to something, you're most relaxed, you're most authentic. You know, those moments where you thought, you know, I get this. This is great. And one way to do that might just be to sit down quietly, you know, with a cup of coffee or whatever you like to drink and make a list of them. Some people don't like making lists. You know, they don't really think well just jotting words down. And I, you know, another good way to do it is to do a kind of storybook. You know, just get some, a pile of magazines and cut out images that attract you and interest you and put together a collage of some sort.

But some inward journey to try and reconnect with those things that you're always drawn to or attracted to. And the second is an outward journey. It's to go and try things. You know, if you've never done salsa dancing, why don't you go and try it? You know, put yourself out. Try new things and see how they start to resonate with you. But just because you're interested in something doesn't mean you'd necessarily be very good at it or that it's going to be your career.

No, I think that's true. And as I say, I think some people are passionate about things. They love to do things which they either don't want to make a living from or feel they simply can't at the moment. And I think it's not only a question, let's say, of finding things that you can earn money from. I mean, money is important. I mean, I'm not naive about that. I have a family. I have a mortgage. I have responsibilities. You know, I haven't found a way to live without money yet any more than most people have. But there's a point to which we shouldn't let money dominate our entire

sense of purpose in our lives. Obviously, we all need an amount, we need enough, whatever enough turns out to be, you know, but I live in on the west side of Los Angeles. And, you know, there are plenty of people here who've got more money than some small countries, you know, but it doesn't make them happy. You happy. They're not fulfilled. This is also like the world's center for therapy. And if we haven't learned yet that living only to make money isn't a route to satisfaction, then I don't know how many more lessons we need to learn. I know people who are wonderfully happy, who earn far less money than people that I meet who are literally billionaires. So I'm not naive about the money

issue, but I'm saying that it's not the only purpose for living. It's essential, but it's not the purpose of being alive. And my point is that sometimes people, and you've been able to do it in your life. I've been able to do it in mine. I know other people who have, who've been able to make a living from the things that they love to do. And that's great. Not everybody can. It depends what it is they love to do and not everybody wants to. Tell the story about the fireman that you met when you were signing your book at a book signing or something. Near San Francisco. One of the people I was signing the book for was a guy in his, I think

he's probably in his late 30s. And I asked him what he did. And he said he was a fireman. And I said, how long have you been a fireman? He said, ever since I left school. And I said, when did you decide to be a fireman? He said, well, you know, I always wanted to be a fireman. He said, actually, it was a problem for me in elementary school because in elementary school, everybody wants to be a fireman.

He said, but I wanted to be a fireman he said but i wanted to be a fireman and he said all the way through school but i kept talking about this and when we got into the senior years everybody else was applying to college and i was applying to the fire service and he said i had one teacher who just wasn't encouraging me at all he said i was throwing my life away if all i wanted to do was become a fireman and he said i should be going to college and making something of myself. He said, and I never understood that. But it was a humiliating moment because he said this in front of the whole class. He said, anyway, he said, I was thinking about this particular teacher when you were speaking earlier. He said, because six months ago, I saved his life.

He was in a car wreck, and I pulled him out and gave him CPR. And he said, and I saved his wife's life as well. He said, I think he thinks better of me CPR. And he said, and I saved his wife's life as well. He said, I think he thinks better of me now. You see, the point I'm making really is that, you know, human talent is very varied and human passions are very diverse. What we've tended to do in our cultures, particularly through our education system, but also socially, is we've developed a whole series of stereotypes of what intelligence looks like, what success looks like, what you have to do to be respected. And these stories that dominate our lives are often very inhibiting for people who somewhere inside them have got an alternative story that they haven't been able to work out properly or to listen to. And, you know, the truth is, our societies depend upon a huge diversity of talent. I mean, the challenges that America is

facing now are unprecedented. You know, we're living in a world that's changing faster than ever. Technology is accelerating in ways that most people can't really understand. We have major challenges in the environment, and the world is becoming more populated than ever before. And if ever there was a time for us to use all of our talents and to make the best use of the things we're all good at, it's now. I know enough about you to know that your interest is not only to help people find their own personal fulfillment,

but that you are interested in this on a much bigger scale, a much more global scale, and education in particular, and you're concerned about the policymakers in education. The problem, you know, I think with a lot of policymakers is that they want to do the right thing. I think they're not sure what the right thing is in education because they confuse educating children and young people with making motor cars. You know, they think it's about like trying to improve a manufacturing system. And, you know, education isn't a manufacturing system. And I say people think that because the evidence is everywhere. You know, this whole obsession with standardized testing

and standardizing curricula and standardizing teaching methods. And, you know, it's like they're trying to make widgets. And the problem simply is that the analogy is wrong. You know, cars have no interest in how they're made, and kids do. You know, what motivates kids is being engaged personally. Everyone who's got children knows it. If anybody listening to this has got two children, they know, and I don't have to know the kids involved to be sure what I'm saying is true, that those two kids are totally different, being brought up in the same environment, but they'll be different, you know, in all kinds of

ways. And that's true even of identical twins. Often, of course, they think alike in lots of ways, but fundamentally they're also very different. And you can't make the best of people in a system that's determined to make them all the same. The whole point of education, I believe, is to encourage diversity. So I think it's a long-haul transit question. We say, how's it going?

Getting policymakers to make the shift is a long-haul, particularly in a system that's focused on very short-term objectives and short-term returns, you know, on the next opinion poll. But it's important work, and I don't think we should give up on it. Well, I suspect you won't be giving up on it anytime soon. Sir Kenneth Robinson has been my guest. He is a teacher, writer, researcher, and speaker, and author of a couple of books.

One is The Element, and then Finding Your Element, How to Discover Your Talents and Passions and Transform Your Life. There's a link to his book in the show notes for this episode of the podcast. The U.S. Postal Service doesn't get a whole lot of respect, but for the most part, they do a pretty good job. Reader's Digest put together some tips and advice that they gathered from several mail carriers that you may find useful. First of all, you may think your dog won't bite the mailman, but every year something like over 5,000 mail carriers get bitten by dogs, so it's probably best not to chance a meeting. Here's a timely suggestion.

If you're sending Valentine's cards, send them early. It takes the machines longer to read addresses on red envelopes, especially if they're written in colored ink on a red envelope. There's no need to wait in line at the post office for a lot of things. At USPS.com, you can buy stamps, place a hold on your mail, change your address, and apply for a passport, among other things. You should know about MediaMail. It's a real bargain.

You can send 10 pounds of books from New York to San Francisco through MediaMail, and it'll cost about $7, compared with about $25 for standard mail. Besides books, you can use MediaMail to send manuscripts, DVDs, CDs, any kind of media. Use a ballpoint pen when you write addresses on an envelope or a package. When you use felt tip ink, it can run in the rain and make the address unreadable. And finally, you've probably wondered about this. Is it really okay to come up to a mail truck when you see it to hand him something to mail or ask him to leave your mail earlier? And yeah, most mail carriers say that's fine, no problem. And that is Something You Should Know. And that's the podcast today. Your questions, comments, and suggestions are always welcome. You can email me directly at

mike at somethingyoushouldknow.net. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Do you love Disney? Do you love top 10 lists? Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. The parks, the movies, the music, the food, the lore. There is nothing we don't cover on our show. We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney-themed games,

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