Something You Should Know - How to Use Your Memory to be More Successful & The Secrets of Loving Couples

Starting point is 00:00:00 Today, on Something You Should Know, couples are often told to have a date night to keep the romance alive, but there's something even better. Then, the power of your memory. It starts with understanding how it works. To give you an example of that, people will say to me, well, I've read this page in a book or in a magazine, and I can't remember anything. Well, that's only because you've just done enough to read and understand it. You haven't actually done enough to remember it it because there are a few more stages you've got

Starting point is 00:00:29 to do in order to put it into your memory. Plus, what's that little pocket inside the big pocket on blue jeans? And so much of the trouble in relationships is we don't know how to listen. Consensus right now on accuracy of listening is that most people in a condition of relaxation have an about 18 to 20% accuracy rate in receiving what somebody else said. If they're upset, they have zero. All this today on Something You Should Know. As a listener to Something You Should Know, I can only assume that you are someone who likes to learn about new and interesting things and bring more knowledge to work for you in your everyday life. I mean, that's kind of what Something You Should Know is all about.

Starting point is 00:01:16 And so I want to invite you to listen to another podcast called TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done Ted Talks. Well, you see, Ted Talks Daily is a podcast that brings you a new Ted Talk every weekday in less than 15 minutes. Join host Elise Hu. She goes beyond the headlines

Starting point is 00:01:39 so you can hear about the big ideas shaping our future. Learn about things like sustainable fashion, embracing your entrepreneurial spirit, the future of robotics, and so much more. Like I said, if you like this podcast, Something You Should Know, I'm pretty sure you're going to like TED Talks Daily. And you get TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts.

Starting point is 00:02:04 Something You should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome. So February is that time of year when talk turns to romance and Valentine's Day and love and couples. And in fact, later in this episode, you'll hear a fascinating conversation about how happy couples stay happy.

Starting point is 00:02:35 But have you also heard the advice that the way for married couples to keep romance alive is to have a date night. While it's hard to find fault with the idea, some interesting data shows that the time couples spend alone together is not their highest quality time. In fact, couples in the Sloan Center's 500 Family Study rated the quality of the time they spent together as a family higher than the time they spent together alone. But even that was not the highest quality time. The highest quality time was the kid-free time couples spent together with friends.

Starting point is 00:03:14 Why? Well, much of the time that married couples with children spent alone together is time spent talking about the family, who will pick up the kids after school on Tuesday? All of that. It's all very predictable. However, spending time as a couple with friends allows for new and interesting conversation and experiences. And novelty is associated with more intense and positive emotions between partners.

Starting point is 00:03:42 And that is something you should know. Chances are, at some point recently, you have forgotten something that you really, really wanted to remember. You intended to remember it. You thought you would remember it, but you didn't. While we like to think that memory works kind of like a filing cabinet, it actually doesn't work that way. However, some people have great memories, and they have great memories because they work at it.

Starting point is 00:04:12 My guest is one of them. Michael Tipper won second place in the World Memory Championship by memorizing the order of nine decks of cards. Nine decks of cards. Nine decks of cards. He's the author of a book called Instant Recall, and he is here to help you make your memory work better. Hi, Michael. Welcome. Hey, thank you, Mike, for inviting me. Really looking forward to having a conversation with you. So start by explaining why you decided to dive so deep into this and make your memory so good that you can pretty much remember anything? It goes back a few years now. I was an average student at school, but then I joined the armed

Starting point is 00:04:53 forces. I joined the Royal Navy and found myself struggling with a different form of learning that I was used to than when I was at school. and because it was a different form of learning and I struggle with it I thought I naturally had a bad memory and so I did I was 16 years old at the time and I invested in a memory course basically discovered that it wasn't that I had a bad memory it was just I didn't know how to learn properly and when I suddenly expanded my skill set with some fairly simple techniques that had been around quite a long time, all of a sudden I discovered that there were ways I could learn things very quickly and put them into my long-term memory at will. And it was a revelation for me that got me quite excited about developing memory. Well, one of the things I've always wondered is, does everyone have the same potential for memory or do some people just have better memories than other people just like some people are better at sports than other people i think there are people who naturally find that their

Starting point is 00:05:53 mental makeup has greater clarity greater specificity greater ability to recall i've worked with people who can remember for example the weather every day of their. I've met people who can read a book once, remember everything. But I think those are rare. So there are people who can do that. But what I do know, based on my own experience, is that everyone has the capacity to be able to learn far more than they believe they currently can do at the moment. So I took the techniques to an extent where i came second i won the silver medal in the world memory championships i memorized um nine decks of playing cards which it sounds an amazing feat i suppose it is but everyone has the ability to be able to do that

Starting point is 00:06:38 um it's if you can imagine something so if you can imagine imagine an image in your mind, then already you have the ability to be able to do that. It's whether you have the discipline and determination and inclination to put yourself through the necessary training to get to the point where you can remember a lot of stuff. You know, I remember hearing somebody talking on this subject once who said, you know, one of the reasons we don't remember where, like, where we put our keys or where we, is that we, we're not paying attention that, you know, our mind is somewhere else and that, that a lot of memory is just focusing on what you want to remember. Absolutely. I would wholeheartedly agree with that. That's one of, I believe,

Starting point is 00:07:21 are three reasons. And concentration is probably the main reason. So when you drive a car, for example, when you first start driving, you have to really think about it. But then what happens, there comes a point where you can do it almost subconsciously without actually thinking about it. And often what happens when we come home and we put our keys down is something we probably do every single day and i've probably done hundreds if not thousands of times and because it's automatic we are not in a conscious state of mind when we put them down and so later on when we come to think well where are my keys we were never actually present when we put them down in our conscious mind and that's what tends to happen is that we tend to be thinking of something else. The classic case is when you are introduced to someone for the first time and you are so busy shaking someone's hand and saying your own name

Starting point is 00:08:13 that you never really listen or hear the other person's name. So it's like in one ear, out the other, and you think you've forgotten their name when actually all it is is concentration. So yes, absolutely, concentration is a key factor in why people often think they've forgotten something when people do forget in other words it's not a case that they weren't paying attention but they they have it in their mind something that they know but it somehow disappears where does it go and why is it not more like a filing cabinet where where once it's in there, it's in there?

Starting point is 00:08:45 The first thing is that we have a short-term, well, we have a working memory. We have a short-term memory, and then we have a medium- to long-term memory. And things need to happen for information to pass from one through to the other. So I can give you a number now. So if I say 47326 six that number is in your working memory and you're probably able to recall that if you were listening to it so i said four seven three two six so i've just repeated it because it was in my working memory um now if i repeat that a few times that then transfers to my short-term memory but then what's likely to happen is that

Starting point is 00:09:21 unless i do something to transfer it to my long-term memory, I'm likely to forget that number. So it's the same with other information that we learn. And what tends to happen is we encounter a lot of stuff during the day, a lot of information, even when we're in a learning environment. And what the brain does, the brain has this thing called synaptic pruning. And what it does, it audits all the connections in the brain. And those that are old and haven't really been used very much it tends to sort of snip away and allow them to be used for other things so a number of reasons why we forget things one it hasn't transferred from working to short term to long term other times it's a synaptic pruning other

Starting point is 00:09:58 times sometimes things are just harder to recall i mean you've probably had situations where you may have seen someone who you know you know but you just can't recall their names right away i hate that yeah and often there are a number of reasons why that happens and so and i wish i knew the answer to it all to be able to say this is the definitive answer but it does happen sometimes and sometimes there are confusion uh with other things um and i've read a statistic recently often something like 80 to 90% of what we think or remember is actually wrong because we tend to put different slants on it and different perspectives on it. Really? Well, yeah, I, I remember, uh, talking to someone

Starting point is 00:10:35 who said that when you recall something, an event, you're not really recalling the event. You're recalling the last time you recalled the event and the more you recall it the more distorted it gets because you're not really remembering the actual event you're remembering what you remembered the last time you remembered it pretty much so yeah that's a really good description of what actually goes on and so we think we can remember things um one way but actually the the slight distortions over a period of time can probably change the memory quite significantly yeah and and that sensation that people have and I had it just the other day when I was talking to

Starting point is 00:11:13 my son that it's right on the tip of my tongue I know I know it it's almost there and I can't I can't pull it out yeah that's that's an interesting one because what you want to do that frustration that drives you to want to um pull it out actually is going to drive it deeper into your memory so it it won't it's harder to recall and what I found the best thing that that works for me is acknowledging that okay it's a little bit hard to access now. When you're ready, bring it to my mind. And I just let it go. And often it comes back relatively quickly. But the harder you sort of try and dig deeper to pull it out, it seems the more elusive that becomes. Yeah, it's a very frustrating experience.

Starting point is 00:11:56 Well, probably the thing that people have the most trouble with or say they have the most trouble with is remembering names. So what's a way to do that? Well, I think if we come back to what we've talked about earlier the main reason that people forget the name is they never have it in the first place and So a very very simple technique is when you're introduced to someone for the first time You set the intent that you're going to get their name Don't worry about saying your name get your handshake, right? That will come but just get the intent of asking the name so you ask them their name they might say

Starting point is 00:12:29 well my name is james and so you'd say okay um you'd repeat oh james nice to meet you so straight away by using it you've put it into your slightly more deeper into your working memory and then having said james um you might ask that their second name uh and they'll tell you let's say it was payton um okay james payton nice to meet you how do you spell that by uh how do you spell that so you might ask them a question about the name so what you're doing there is you're taking a genuine interest in the name um or you might say oh i knew i knew someone called payton um they spelled it with an e do you spell it with an e and so you had this little conversation so all of a sudden now the information has become that much more richer in your mind so there are more hooks you've said it a couple of times

Starting point is 00:13:13 you've explored the spelling of it you might have checked your pronunciation is correct so when in this multicultural society we live in you meet people from different cultures and so often the names might sound alien to you because they're from a different culture so one of the things i i try and do is i'll ask people how do you say that have i said that right so i'll make sure the pronunciation is and because i'm quite a visual person i might ask them how they spell it so i can get it clearer then i'll use it a couple of times and then if you've made four or five people you can do that and some people might say well that takes a long time but if you think about it an introduction between five people usually is a quick shake of hands

Starting point is 00:13:50 James, David, Janet, John very very quickly but actually if you take the time to shake their hand ask them their name tell them their name have that little conversation you've actually built up a stronger degree of rapport because you've taken a little bit more interest in them and you start to build that relationship they do with the next person and then the next person and then you might even say well let me just check i've got these names right and you're genuinely showing an interest in their names and it's amazing how people feel so much more valued that way and then once you're with these people you might then review their name in your mind, use it a couple of times, and then you've got their name. So that's what you do in the short term.

Starting point is 00:14:29 But in the long term, as you were saying earlier, if you don't see that person for a month, your brain does that pruning thing you were talking about, and now you've forgotten again. It can do. So one of the things that you can do to remember them long term. So, for example, one of the things that I do is I do a lot of the things that you can do to remember them long term so for example one of the things that i do is i do a lot of training courses i'll go into companies i'll work with with companies and i'll then i'll go back and work with the same people sometimes three to four months later so what i do is i will make sure i learn their names when i first meet them and i might be with them for three or four days and i learn their names then what i do i take a a photograph of

Starting point is 00:15:04 the group and then I'll put that into I put that into Evernote and I'll make a few notes on their on on them as people and their name so I've got a record of it and then later on when I come back I should go back and review that to make sure I've got their names sometimes I remember them sometimes I don't so there are ways that I use that are practical using techniques like that allow me to recall those names and ultimately when you've got things like facebook and linkedin connections often you'll connect with people through these methods you can just go and have a quick look online pull their name out and see remind yourself what they look like there's all sorts of ways you

Starting point is 00:15:41 can do to refresh your mind and strengthen that mental image. It seems like I shouldn't have to say this because everyone who's listening now has already got a better memory, but I'll say it anyway, that my guest is Michael Tipper. He is a world memory champion, and he's author of the book Instant Recall. People who listen to something you should know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to something you should know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared.

Starting point is 00:16:18 It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson, discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts.

Starting point is 00:17:10 Contained herein are the heresies of Redolph Buntwine, erstwhile monk turned traveling medical investigator. Join me as I study the secrets of the divine plagues and uncover the blasphemous truth that ours is not a loving God and we are not its favored children. The heresies of Randolph Bantwine, wherever podcasts are available. So, Michael, you said that when you meet someone, you put their name in your computer, you make some notes, you do a lot of work.

Starting point is 00:17:41 And it seems like, I think most of us like to believe or would hope that our memory works better than that, that it doesn't require that much deliberate effort to remember someone. We should just remember. Well, that's an interesting point, and I think that often people's expectations of what their memory should do far exceed what they've actually done and to give you an example of that one of the things related to common problems is people will say to me well i've read this page in a book or in a magazine and i get to the bottom i can't remember anything and i say to people well that's only because you've just done enough to read and understand it you haven't actually done enough to remember it because there are a few more stages you've got to do in order to put it into your memory so i would agree with you that

Starting point is 00:18:30 there are things that it would be nice to be able to to meet someone uh for the for the first time and go through a process of uh remembering the name forever and there are some people who can actually do that having met them once but what what I found, certainly from my own experience and a lot of the people I've taught over the years, is that if you want to do that regularly, it becomes a habit. It needs to become a habit. It can become a skill that you can develop. And there are certain, if you like, safety net mechanisms you can put in place so that you're able to recall that information at a future date. So you do have to do a little bit more than just meet them for the first time and that's it. There's more you've got to do. So let's test your memory. You threw out a number about 10 minutes ago. Do you remember what it was? There was a four

Starting point is 00:19:14 in it and I think it ended in a six and I think there's a three and a seven. So the answer is no. So what you've got there is a perfect example of me using it into my working memory. I put it in my short-term memory then, but it's drifted to the point where, what was it now? I'm asking myself, I don't know. Well, and see, here's what's interesting is that I, and I didn't write it down, but I was going to ask you later. So I did a little more work on that as you were talking. I said to myself, okay, you need to remember this so you can ask him later and so i did exactly what you were talking about and i remembered it four seven three two six and you didn't because you didn't do that extra work exactly so that

Starting point is 00:19:58 means that means that i could win the gold medal at the next memory championship. Mike, I think I've just met my match. So I like how you explained it because you can kind of visualize the process of information moving from your working memory to your short-term memory to your long-term memory. And it's a process of getting it there as opposed to just will i or won't i remember this well here's an analogy that i love using that sort of explains quite neatly how the brain actually works because when you learn something when you've got a fact in your mind that you can recall it is a physical connection between two or more brain cells it is a physical connection so when i tell you a single fact so like that number earlier on if you can imagine walking through a cornfield you walk through it for the first time and when

Starting point is 00:20:52 you get to the other side and look back you probably can't really see where you've been because the the you might see a little bit where you've been and if you just left that cornfield never went back again where you had been would grow over quite quickly. But if before it starts to grow over, you went back again and made the path slightly wider, you'd now have more evidence of you being through that cornfield. Again, if you never went back there again, that cornfield would grow over, but it would take slightly longer because your path is now wider. However, if before it starts to grow over, you went back again and made a slightly wider track now, you could see more of where you've been. And that's what it's like in the brain. Okay, but using that analogy, then what are you doing every time you go

Starting point is 00:21:36 up and down the cornfield there? What are you doing? Are you reading something again? How is it that you're revisiting that material in your brain? So this is really important. Probably one of the biggest things I learned about memory, beyond all the fancy techniques of memorizing cards and numbers, but there's this factor. Most people, when they're learning stuff, they will read it, okay? And then they'll put it to one side. And when they're going to revise again, they'll read it, okay, and then they'll put it to one side. And when they're going to revise again, they'll read it again.

Starting point is 00:22:07 And what happens is they become familiar with the content because they keep looking at it. And they confuse that familiarity with knowing, oh, I recognize this, therefore I must know it. But actually, if they try and recall it, they struggle to do that. So the secret when you're learning stuff is learn it once, put it to one side, then try and recall from memory and do it without looking at it. And you initially might think, oh, I can do some of it. And there's a bit I can't remember.

Starting point is 00:22:38 Oh, what is it? What's that bit? And you hold off looking at it. You create this tension in your mind where you say oh what is it what is it oh was it this was it that oh what is it and then it comes to a point where you can stand it no longer then you look you go oh that's what it was and there's something about that breaking that tension that puts it into your long-term memory and that's one of the biggest things i've discovered about how to develop your ability to recall the stuff that you learn.

Starting point is 00:23:08 Well, that sort of explains, I think, if I heard you correctly, you know how when you're in the car and you hear a song on the radio, you can sing along with the song and you know the lyrics as long as you're singing along with the song that's on the radio. But try to remember the lyrics when you get home and the music's off. It's a lot harder. It's a lot harder to pull it out of memory as opposed to having the context of the song playing. Absolutely. There's also a very interesting variation on that theme. So there are probably a lot of songs that you can remember from your teenage years that you probably are able to sing all the way through

Starting point is 00:23:45 would that be true yeah i'm sure of course yeah okay so and the reason for that is because at that time in our life music probably meant much more to us because it was part of our identity in our youth and all the emotions that we were going through so our first loves and all those things that were coursing through our veins when we're teenage teenage years so you've got the music which was part of our identity you've also got words and rhythm coming together and the rhythm is quite important and that laced with the emotion allows us to remember that information much more so i hear songs from my youth and i can sing along to them i can probably sing them off the top of my head for some of them. But then the music that I've become more interested in as I've got older,

Starting point is 00:24:27 I do as you say, I need to listen to it and sing along with it. I couldn't recreate it with a guitar on my own. So that's what's happening there. Are there any ways to jog your memory as people say, you know, oh, I just just it's there I know it's in there I just need to get it out if you put too much pressure on then that's going to almost embed it further into your mind so you can't get it so thinking of relaxing saying right I know I know it I trust it's going to come when I need it but let me think about other things that might trigger that and then all of a sudden about two or three minutes later you might suddenly it suddenly pops into

Starting point is 00:25:04 your mind I've had that happen to me so many times, but you have to trust that that mechanism works. You've talked about a lot of tactics and strategies to improve memory, but is there kind of an overriding concern or suggestion that you have that would easily make people's memories work better if they only knew? The one thing that I would easily make people's memories work better if they only knew the one thing that I would suggest to people about just generally improving their mental abilities their their ability to remember and learn stuff is That stress is probably the biggest barrier to effective cognitive functioning and so if all you did was

Starting point is 00:25:48 Learn how to handle stress be able to lots of good exercise healthy diet hydrate well maybe learn to meditate just that alone is going to give you the best foundation the best framework in which your mind can operate and then once you've got that then you can start exploring some of the techniques that you'll find all over the place to be able to do some of the more fancy stuff. So just sort out the brain health first. That's a huge starting point that will have a big impact on your ability to learn and remember stuff. And then on top of that, use some of the techniques that you can find out all over the place. Well, as good as our memories work, I'm sure everyone has had the experience on multiple occasions where your memory failed when you really needed it to work. So it's good

Starting point is 00:26:32 to know there are things you can do to really commit something to memory when you have to. Michael Tipper has been my guest. He won second place in the World Memory Championship by memorizing the order of nine decks of playing cards. His book is Instant Recall, and you'll find a link to his book at Amazon in the show notes. Thank you, Michael. Appreciate you coming on. It's been a pleasure, Mike, and thank you for a great conversation. So other than your absolute best friends, who's going to bring you red wine at 4 p.m. or sushi at 9 p.m. or a breakfast burrito at 8 a.m.? The answer is Postmates. Postmates is your personal food delivery, grocery delivery,

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Starting point is 00:28:19 And I tell people, if you like something you should know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation.

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Starting point is 00:29:17 The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you love Disney? Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney.

Starting point is 00:29:38 There is nothing we don't cover. We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney-themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed, but you definitely need in your life. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. So this episode is being published on Valentine's Day. So I thought it would be interesting to look at what it is that makes happy couples happy. And perhaps more importantly, what it is that couples can do to make their relationship better if it's not so happy. So the person I've turned to is Dr. Harville

Starting point is 00:30:18 Hendricks. For several years now, he's been helping couples in therapy and also writing books and speaking about couples and what it takes to have a successful relationship. His latest book is called Getting the Love You Want. It's actually the updated paperback version of a book he wrote a while ago that became a bit of a classic and a huge bestseller after he appeared on Oprah. Hi, Harville. Good to talk with you again. So, in all your work with couples, what is it that you see as the biggest challenge couples have? Well, the biggest problem that we see that is chronic is the difficulty one person has accepting the reality of another person as valid as their own. That is, there is seemingly in the human heart universally a yearning that the person that you're with and you have the same worldview,

Starting point is 00:31:17 that you live in the same world, that you are in many ways the same. I think the marketing word right now for dating sites is compatibility and degrees of compatibility. And what our experience is, is that we have never seen a compatible couple if they fell in love. If you sort of decided you were going to start up a partnership, a relationship, but didn't feel the attraction that we assign to the experience of romantic love, then you might build a relationship rationally, logically, based on compatibility. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait a minute. You're saying that if you are in a relationship where you initially fell in love, kind of head over heels, like in the movies, kind of fell in love that puts you at a disadvantage compared to somebody who maybe approached the relationship much more logically and deliberately which

Starting point is 00:32:14 much on valentine's day is not what i think i want to hear but but okay so i buy that so because it makes sense if you do something a little more deliberately and a little more rationally, the outcome may likely be better. But so what does all this mean? So what is the big problem that couples have then? Regardless of how we got to be a couple, what is the big problem? The problem often in relationships is that you are different from the person I thought I married. So that's the classic power struggle. So that I want you to be like I need you to be in order for me to be assured that I'm going to get what I need from you. That causes problems that show up how?

Starting point is 00:33:04 Almost in every transaction. You know, you didn't show up how? what we'd call an ideal image of the type of person that they are projecting onto their partner. And when their partner doesn't behave according to that image, then I have to object to that. And I'll do it with a criticism like, you don't do that. You always do that. You never stop doing that. When are you going to stop doing that? In other words, don't be the person that you are. Be the person I need you to be. So any criticism is an attempt to regulate the partner and get them to become the person that fits the image in your mind. Isn't that interesting? Don't be the person you are, be the person I need you to be. That right there, that's huge. And then what is even more interesting is that we, we believe people believe couples believe

Starting point is 00:34:07 that if I criticize you enough and tell you enough about how you are not the person I need you to be, then you will become that person. So the more I criticize you, and it's interesting, I've asked partners this over and over again in the last 40 years that I've been doing couples therapy. So if you keep on saying to George that he's always late and that he never speaks up and initiates a conversation, what is your fantasy about what he will do? And she said, oh, he'll show up on time and he'll initiate conversations and he'll express emotions. So you think that if you hurt him enough, he will love you the way you want to be loved Am I getting that and then they say oh

Starting point is 00:34:48 Didn't realize I was hurting him. I thought I was you know, blah blah blah So that's the that's the what we call the power struggle impasse is you want to be yourself But if you are yourself, I don't get my needs met so you can't be yourself You have to be the person I need. And therefore, you have to be annihilated so I can have my ideal person. So if you're not the person I need, who were you before that attracted me to you in the first place? There are three stages in all relationships. And one is it starts out great, and that's called romance.

Starting point is 00:35:21 The second one is that then it goes bad. And the third stage is you try to create a conscious partnership. Uh, in other words, resolve all this issues. But this, this drama in the power struggle that, that, um, I've been referring to was preceded by stage number one, which is romantic love in which each person unconsciously presented themselves to the other person as the right person. Somehow we kind of know that your partner needs X, Y, and Z, but you know also that that's not you to be that way. So what happens after a few, sometimes it's days, weeks, months, and I've also found that the average sort of coming out party of,

Starting point is 00:36:07 I am going to be me in this relationship, happens at about the third or fourth year and produces a divorce around the fifth and seventh year. So if you're in a relationship with someone and you want them to be someone they're not, well, that seems like a car crash waiting to happen. How do you fix that as opposed to saying, well, then see you later? Well, and 50%, ever since 1972, that number of people do say goodbye. You know, I can't get what I need from you. You won't be the person I need.

Starting point is 00:36:42 You're not the person I need. Made a mistake. So I'm going to go on. What they don't know is that they will cross the street or go to the other side, meet somebody else and repeat the same drama. So how do you get how do you fix this? How do you how do you make this happen? What you have to do is become aware that you're actually married to another person. And we call that differentiation.

Starting point is 00:37:05 You have to get it that the person that you're married to is not you, nor are they identical with the fiction you have of the person that you need. So how will you discover that? So what we have done, and it works practically every time, is have people learn a new way to talk. So you're in the home and a conflict happens and there's a rupture. One person will need to learn to stop and say, could we redo that? We call it a redo. Could you say that to me in a different way so that I don't feel put down? The other thing you do if you don't have any instructions, you've not read a book,

Starting point is 00:37:44 you don't have any knowledge, but you need to do one thing is if somebody says something to you, mirror them back before you respond. Because most of the time you are about 80 to 90 percent wrong about what you heard. So you'll respond to your to your own distortion. So you can say that. And so we've said to many people who said well what if my partner won't go to therapy what if he won't engage in anything usually so what if he won't um what what do i do and so this is what we say to them is sort of like gandhi said be the change you want to see so become curious about him um you might but notate. So what's going on for you? Blah, blah, blah. And

Starting point is 00:38:27 then learn to say something back like, okay, that makes sense. Or I can see that, or I get it that you're feeling that way. So one of the principles that we say to couples that you have to do in your relationship is you simply have to end negativity. That negativity will always produce anxiety. Anxiety will produce a defense. A defense will produce polarization. And that's not what you want. So if you, whenever you have a need that is not being met, learn to ask for what you want in any transaction rather than comment on what you're not getting. Because if you do the second one, that person's going to go defensive. If you say,

Starting point is 00:39:09 what I would like is that when we have an appointment to be at dinner at seven o'clock and you find yourself not able to be there, would you call me 30 minutes ahead of time and let me know so I know when to come? In other words, remove negativity. And the other piece that works is in real life is to find things about your partner, real things that you really appreciate and say on a regular basis, spontaneously. You know, I appreciate your bringing me a cup of coffee this morning. I appreciate that you told me about what was going on. Whatever shows up that you appreciate your partner did for you that day. Helen and I have a ritual of every night before we go to sleep, a ritual is three appreciations for something that you did today that I really appreciate. And so what's the magic there? What is appreciation inserting into the relationship? Well, appreciations say to the person, you're not an enemy.

Starting point is 00:40:06 You're a friend. I see you as valuable. Bloodstream, blood neurochemicals change to endorphins and you begin to feel connected. If you want to ramp it up a little bit, give each other a one minute hug. A hug, a one minute activates oxytocin. Oxytocin is a bonding chemical. So you actually feel closer when that chemical is aroused, when the cortisol is aroused because you glared at them, you actually feel ruptured. So approach behaviors, moving toward the partner with appreciation, moving toward the partner with curiosity, dropping all negativity and going to asking for what you want creates a safe space in the relationship. You said something a few minutes ago that caught my attention and I want to come back and revisit that. You said something like that when we hear what we hear is like really only 20% accurate the

Starting point is 00:41:09 consensus right now on accuracy of listening is that most people in a condition of relaxation they're not aroused not distracted not scared not anxious they're relaxed feeling good an about 18 to 20 percent accuracy rate in receiving what somebody else said. If they're upset, they have zero. They receive zero. Everything is distorted. This is why it's important to say, let me see if I got that. So to learn that as a mechanism in everyday life with anybody, your partner, with you, with a friend, just say, let me see, did I get this? You said you're going to go to the bathroom and you'll be back in 10 minutes. Okay, got it. And so it reduces anxiety. The distortion creates anxiety.

Starting point is 00:42:00 What you want to do is create a safe environment. Any way you can do that. And you cannot create one if you're negative. Period. When you say get rid of negativity, I'm thinking that, you know, in relationships there's a lot of different kinds of negativity. Some of it seems necessary. So maybe zero in a little more on what you mean about this negativity that has to stop. What we mean specifically is the partner put down. You didn't do that. You didn't call me. You, we were late and you frowned at me or what, whatever puts the partner down and says you did something wrong is the primary negation

Starting point is 00:42:40 that has to go away and replaced with what you would like. Like when you come into the room, I would really love a big hug instead of you came into the room and you didn't even look at me. So you ask for what you want. The brain is designed in such a way that it knows how to actualize things that are connecting and survival. But when you go negative, it only knows how to defend itself. So back away or do something, whatever you have to do to defend yourself. But if you're in a relationship with someone who is constantly late, how do you never say anything? How do you never say, I'm really getting tired that you're always late?

Starting point is 00:43:19 Well, when you say that, they'll always be late, and they'll also not like you more. So what you do is to say, could we talk about our schedule, our appointment times? Would you be willing to have a conversation? And I'd like to tell you what I would like in our relationship. And what I would like is that when we, when you, when we make an agreement about, you know, dinner at seven. What I would like is for you to be there at seven. Oh, and if you can't, cause you know, sometimes you can't give me a call and tell me you're going to be there seven 30. Uh, then I know what to do with my time with dinner or whatever. So instead of going into what I don't like, ask for what you want. And you can then talk about anything.

Starting point is 00:44:06 As long as you don't make it your partner's problem, you're having the problem with his lateness. He's not having a problem with his lateness. So you want him to change so that you won't be uncomfortable about his lateness. So ask for that in a kind and loving way. And more than likely, he'll say, oh my God, I didn't realize I was blah, blah, blah. I'll do that. I'll call you in the future. I'll do my best to be there on time. Well, I know for a lot of couples, that would be a big shift in how they communicate with each other. But as you say, the negativity and the criticism and the complaining can't be doing much to help either. Harville Hendricks has been my guest. The book is Getting the Love You Want, and you'll find a link to his book at Amazon in the show notes.

Starting point is 00:44:48 Thank you, Harville. Appreciate it. You're welcome. Thank you. Blue jeans have been around for a long time, so you probably don't stop and think about them a whole lot. But one question that does come up from time to time is about that little pocket, that little pocket inside the big pocket. Why is it there? And what was it designed to do?

Starting point is 00:45:13 Well, while it's often called a coin pocket, holding coins was not the original intent. The pocket was actually put there by Levi Strauss himself, the man who invented blue jeans, and he put it there to protect your pocket watch. But since you likely don't carry a pocket watch, the pocket goes unused. Over the years, it's been called many things. Frontier pocket, match pocket, ticket pocket, to name a few. But the real reason was the pocket watch. And that is something you should know. Questions, comments, and ideas are always welcome. You can write to me directly at mike at somethingyoushouldknow.net.

Starting point is 00:45:56 I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity.

Starting point is 00:46:29 The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan.

Starting point is 00:46:49 Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network called The Search for the Silver Lining, a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla

Starting point is 00:47:13 who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. Look for The Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Something You Should Know - How to Use Your Memory to be More Successful & The Secrets of Loving Couples

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