Something You Should Know - SYSK Choice: Dumb Money Moves Smart People Make & Optimizing Your Attitude

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Starting point is 00:00:17 You can now make the first move or not. With opening moves, you simply choose a question to be automatically sent to your matches. Then sit back and let your matches start the chat. Download Bumble and try it for yourself. Today on Something You Should Know, how any business can deliver excellent customer service explained in one little question from the Disney organization. Then, a lot of smart people do really dumb things with their money.

Starting point is 00:00:45 One of them is not having a will. I get that it's hard to contemplate your death, but not having a will, I think it may be the dumbest and I think it may be the most selfish thing that you can do. Because it is actually a pretty easy thing to do. Plus, the first wrinkles people usually get are around the eyes and you should be happy to get them. And is attitude everything? Can you really accomplish anything with the right attitude? Attitude is what I call an added value asset. It will take what you have and it will add value to you. It

Starting point is 00:01:21 will make you better, but it won't make you. There's a difference. All this today on Something You Should Know. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology.

Starting point is 00:02:05 That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson, discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts.

Starting point is 00:02:38 And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome. Let me ask you that if after listening to this podcast, if there's someone you know who you think would like it or could benefit from the information in it, I hope you'll consider sharing it. Most places where you listen to podcasts,

Starting point is 00:03:00 like Spotify, Apple Podcasts, CastBox, wherever you listen, they make it pretty easy to share an episode, Apple Podcasts, CastBox, wherever you listen. They make it pretty easy to share an episode, so I hope you will. First up today, people who have jobs where they deal with the public a lot, very often and very quickly come to the conclusion that people are idiots. But there's another way to look at it, and here is an example from the Disney organization. Employees at the Disney theme parks are often asked by visitors, when is the 3 o'clock parade?

Starting point is 00:03:35 Now this is where you might draw the conclusion that people are idiots, because of course the 3 o'clock parade is at 3 o'clock. But Disney staffers are trained to answer the question differently. They ask the person questions to help understand what the real question is, which might be, when does the 3 o'clock parade pass by here? Because the parade may start at 3 o'clock, but it may not get to a certain location until 3.30. Most businesses have their version of when is the 3 o'clock parade question. Training people to get to the real

Starting point is 00:04:13 question and understand what customers really want is what customer service is all about. And that is something you should know. You have no doubt made a lot of financial decisions in your life. And at the time you made some of them, you probably had a really good reason. But in hindsight, maybe your reason wasn't so great. Maybe it was more of a justification or rationalization that allowed you to buy something or not buy something. The fact is a lot of very smart people do some very dumb things with and about their money. Probably all of us have because we do so much with money.

Starting point is 00:04:55 We deal with money every day. So some of the things we do are bound to go wrong. And the results can be costly in more ways than one. Jill Schlesinger is someone who can help. Jill is a certified financial planner. She's a business analyst for CBS News. She's a weekly guest on NPR's Here and Now program, and she has her own podcast, Jill on Money.

Starting point is 00:05:19 Hi, Jill. Welcome. Great to be with you. Thanks for having me. So dive in and talk about what you mean. What are the kinds of things you're talking about that people do that maybe they don't even think about? I know you have a list, but what's the nature of that list? Well, I think that the nature really is about certain things that you might think are, let's call it common wisdom, right? Let's think that for many of us, the idea in getting started or even becoming a smart financial steward of our lives would be to buy a home, right? Like, hey, you got to buy a house because when you rent, you throw your money away. But what I have found, both in my own practice as well as dealing with a lot of people who call my radio show and podcast, is that sometimes people should rent.

Starting point is 00:06:17 And I'll tell you a great story. It just happened yesterday. A woman called the radio show. She lives in New York and she has scored what is like in New York, perhaps the best thing in the universe, which is a rent controlled apartment. And in New York city, she is paying a thousand dollars a month. And I, I mean, that's just great. Right. But she feels compelled to be buying a home because she goes, listen, I have a good job and I'm making good money and I'm saving $4,000 a month. And so now I feel like that

Starting point is 00:06:52 should just automatically go towards a home. And I said, well, I know you feel that you should buy a home, but at a thousand dollars a month, you're far better off socking away as much money as you can right now. Maybe not sinking money into a home when you don't even really know. She was in her late 20s. You don't really know what direction your life is going to take. You don't know where you want to go. You may want to have the opportunity to cross the country and take advantage of an opportunity. In this case, given the situation, you really

Starting point is 00:07:24 should be renting, not buying. So I know I won't make a lot of friends from the National Association of Realtors giving this advice, but I really believe that many people should be renting and instead are just plunging into a home purchase when the alternative is really a much better option for them. Based on what criteria, though? Because that's a pretty unusual circumstance to get a $1,000 a month apartment in New York City. But what's the average Joe criteria to decide I should be renting or maybe I should buy?

Starting point is 00:07:56 Well, I think that it really is predicated on someone's personal financial situation. And all I am trying to get people to consider is that there are a number of traps and emotional ones that we fall prey to. One of them is that we feel compelled to buy a home. Maybe it would be better for you to rent. And so all, I think that on a case by case basis, what I'm simply suggesting is that you consider these alternatives because if you don't at least consider them on the way in, maybe you should buy a home. Maybe that's the greatest thing in the world for you. But because we are pre-programmed to think, oh my God, I have to buy a home, we don't even think about

Starting point is 00:08:35 renting. So you say one of the dumbest things people can do financially is to not have a will. And yet a lot of people don't have wills. I don't even think it's like, I think it may be the dumbest, and I think it may be the most selfish thing that you can do. And I have to say that when you think about this process of not having a will, a lot of people will have very good reasons. Well, my husband and I cannot decide as to who would take care of the kids if something horrible happened to us. That's not a good reason not to have a will, because you still have the same problem, which is if, God forbid, something horrible were to

Starting point is 00:09:15 happen to you guys together, there is now one arbiter of who gets your kids, And that is the state where you live. And for anyone who has waited in line to renew a license, you must have to say to yourself, do I want this state to make this decision for me? And look, there are a lot of problems where people simply just want to bury their heads. I get it. I get that it's hard to contemplate your death, but not having a will can be a financial problem, but it's also a real mess to leave your heirs. And I think that for many who say, oh, I just don't have enough money. That's not the point. The point is you need to write in a document who's going to take care of your kids, Who's going to split up your stuff? What's going to happen with the, um, with the end of life decisions that you, that someone will be facing? What's going to happen with the ability for you to make a decision if you're incapacitated?

Starting point is 00:10:16 These are the things you need to name. You need to have, you must, I mean, I can't explain to you how frustrating it is for me to meet people who don't have their estate planning done because it is actually a pretty easy thing to do. And now actually even more affordable. I mean, I like using attorneys to do it, but you could get a simple will, a power of attorney, a healthcare proxy. You can do it online if you just can't stand the idea of

Starting point is 00:10:45 spending some money on the one thing you know for sure in your life, which is you will die. Talk about risk, because risk is a big part of all of this, because oftentimes we take risks and they pay off and we go, gee, wasn't that great? If they hadn't worked, we'd say, God, boy, that sure was stupid. But you have to take risks because risks are part of your financial life. So how do you mitigate all of that? Well, I think there are some risks that are really easy to mitigate. There's risk that bad things can happen, right? And then the coolest thing about insurance is you can pay a company to basically assume the risk for you. But we're

Starting point is 00:11:25 talking about other kinds of risk, mainly investment risk, right? So what the general advice is, is to create some kind of portfolio, some kind of investment approach that will protect some of your money on the downside, but still allow you to make money on the upside. And this may not be a surefire way to find the next amazon.com, right? But what it can do is it can prevent you from really falling prey to those emotions, from being at the top of a market and being unwilling to take money off the table, or being at the bottom of the market and feeling fearful and cashing everything in. One of the things I think people struggle with with money is, on one hand, you hear things like, you know, you can't take it with you, you know, if not now, when?

Starting point is 00:12:16 And you want to do things to enjoy your life. And then on the other hand, you say, yeah, but, you know, you've got to save for the future and you've got to be prudent with your money. And so how do you balance that? How do you live the life you want without regret looking back and yet also do the right thing so you don't end up in the poor house? That is such a great question because I think that the idea of how to take smart risk is something that we really don't think about, especially when it comes to, say, a dream of building a business. I was actually chatting with a young entrepreneur, a guy who owns his own company now, and he's got 500 employees.

Starting point is 00:13:02 And I said to him, what was the smartest thing you did before you started the business? He goes, bar none, the smartest thing I did was to take a year of my living expenses and save it up before I ever started this business. Because what I knew, as he said to me, is that a lot of new businesses go bust and a lot of new businesses will not actually make it. And I couldn't be willing to actually forego one full year of expenses and my savings. But after that it was done, either it was going to be on the track to do something or not. So I think that if you really want to make a dream come true, you do it in a smart way. You don't put your entire retirement nest egg at risk. You don't put your family at risk.

Starting point is 00:13:45 You sit down ahead of time and you say, okay, what can we afford to do? How can we approach this? What's the smartest way to do this without really rolling the dice and saying, oh, well, two bad kids, all that money that I'd save for you for college is gone. Good luck. So most of the things that when you run into a hard financial problem, many of the problems that occur could have been averted simply by thinking those things through in advance, as opposed to saying, you know what? I want to open a restaurant. I'm going to, I'm going to open a restaurant and I'm going to cash in my 401k. That's what I'm going to do.

Starting point is 00:14:28 That to me seems like an insane risk to take. And I know that there's going to be someone who listens to this and say, but I did it and I made it. That's true. But the 99 people who didn't do it and did lose their money and did lose their shirts, they're not going to come in and tell us how bad it was. My guest is Jill Schlesinger. She's a business analyst for CBS News and author of the book, The Dumb Things Smart People Do With Their Money.

Starting point is 00:14:54 Hi, this is Rob Benedict. And I am Richard Spate. We were both on a little show you might know called Supernatural. It had a pretty good run, 15 seasons, 327 episodes. And though we have seen, of course, every episode many times, we figured, hey, now that we're wrapped, let's watch it all again. And we can't do that alone. So we're inviting the cast and crew that made the show along for the ride. We've got writers, producers, composers, directors, and we'll of course have some actors on as well, including some certain guys

Starting point is 00:15:26 that played some certain pretty iconic brothers. It was kind of a little bit of a left field choice in the best way possible. The note from Kripke was, "'He's great, we love him, "'but we're looking for like a really intelligent "'Dicovny type.'" With 15 seasons to explore,

Starting point is 00:15:42 it's going to be the road trip of several lifetimes. So please join us and subscribe to Supernatural then and now. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people if you like something you should know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and

Starting point is 00:16:18 radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes.

Starting point is 00:16:41 Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back, and in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed critical thinker. Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. So Jill, do you think anybody should be picking individual stocks as part of their investment strategy, or is that one of the dumb things smart people do with their money? You know, look, I come from an investment background, right? My dad was a trader.

Starting point is 00:17:18 My uncle's a trader on the New York Stock Exchange. And I think that there is certainly there are some people who may want to dabble in stock picking. The way I think about that is you can have a fun money account where you can dabble in stocks, but your real money, your real important savings and investing should be confined to mostly index funds that don't have fees, that are going to be really low cost. I almost would consider it and say, like, if you had a little pot of money here and you said, I want to dabble in this, I would turn around to you and say, what would happen if that just went to zero? Would that change any of your plans? And if the answer is no,

Starting point is 00:18:05 then sure, go ahead. But what we have learned over time is that stock picking is really hard. And even fantastic money managers who seem to claim to beat the market, they don't. We just had yet another survey out where over the past 15 years, nine out of 10 managed mutual fund managers, these are folks who've got a zillion people and staff helping to pick stocks, that those people don't beat the index against which they are measured. And so, you know, it's funny, I'm talking to you just a few weeks after Jack Bogle died. he was the founder of Vanguard, sort of the father of the modern index fund. And when he first, 40 years ago, 43 years ago, introduced an index fund, the entire industry called it Bogle's folly. They made fun of him. They said, this is ridiculous.

Starting point is 00:18:59 And now what has been proven out time after time is that buying an index and having different indexes, maybe it's a bond, maybe it's a small stock and a large stock, maybe it's international, but that combination of index funds is probably going to be your best bet. Even Warren Buffett, a few years ago, said, if I die, this is what I think you should do. Put most of my money that you inherit into an S&P 500 fund, and you can keep the rest of some in cash and some government bonds. If that's good enough for Warren Buffett's heirs, I kind of feel like it's good enough for me and you and everyone else. Probably so. One of my observations that I'd like to get you to comment on is that as I look at people I know, the apple didn't fall far from the tree in most

Starting point is 00:19:46 cases that people live like and have about the same amount of money adjusted for inflation and all as their parents did. And I remember things about money growing up. For example, my dad was a consultant and there were times when he was a consultant where he was making really good money and we had money. And then there were times when he didn't have a client and things were pretty lean, and that was pretty scary. And so I remember that, and I try to prevent that from ever happening. In other words, my beliefs came in large part from what my parents believed about money. I believe that that is 100% part of what happens to us.

Starting point is 00:20:31 And I learned this for the book. I interviewed a really interesting guy who is a wealth psychologist named Jim Grubman. And he really explained to me that in his experience, that idea of how your parents are transmitting their views around money to you really does shape you. Now, in your case, it shapes you to say, I don't want to be like that. But in some cases, it shapes you in other ways, right? I'm sort of the same way. I had a dad who took on a ton of risk in his professional life and with his investing. And I react against that. My sister and I are both incredibly risk averse for the same reason. I think that's one

Starting point is 00:21:20 of the real cautionary tales I have for parents, which is you really have to be careful not to saddle your kids with your own money issues. And what is important here is to recognize that you have money issues, right? And the psychology around this does really form who we are. And even if it's, you know, again, it may be just sort of a generalized anxiety. If you grew up with no money, you might have two reactions to that. Maybe you grew up with no money and your parents said, you know, when you get money, you should live big. Or maybe it's when you get money, you never want to squander it. But whatever the messaging was, it really does come down to how you live your life today, knowing that those emotions really do inflect how we talk about and how we treat money.

Starting point is 00:22:13 Right? I had a really good friend. She had a controlling father who was really brutal around money. Her reaction was she became such an indulgent parent. She couldn't say no to her kids at her own expense. And those are the kinds of patterns in our emotions and money that can really have a detrimental effect down the line. You say insurance is very important to your financial life, and yet, you know, it's not really exciting. It's not a topic that people really relish sitting down and dealing with. So what's your recommendation? Well, look, in some way, shape, or form, you've got to start to think about these things in

Starting point is 00:23:01 your life that could really blow up your entire financial life. And they're not that hard to protect against. So I opened the book with a story of a former client of mine who went into business for himself. I was completely supportive. It was great. He was a former banker. And every time I sat down to talk to him, I would say, uh, okay, so we've got, you've got the life insurance, you've got this,

Starting point is 00:23:25 but you know, you need disability insurance. And he kind of would look at me and say, well, that's so expensive. And I'm in such great health. And you know, my parents lived a long time. I'm really not worried about that. And I kept saying to him, but you never know. And he says, yeah, I know. It's all right. And then the poor guy gets diagnosed with MS and his life was turned upside down. And yeah, but what if is probably the phrase that you should ask yourself as you're thinking through your insurance needs. So since we've been talking and since the title of your book is The Dumb Things Smart People Do With Their Money, what are the smart things people do with their money? What's the smartest thing you could do with your money? I think the smartest thing that you can do is to try to make sure you're using

Starting point is 00:24:18 money as the means to your end. It is not your end. Piling up money is no one's real goal in life. Your goal is to create some sort of game plan. You think ahead and it's not to think ahead to just contemplate the worst case or the best case. It's what do I, what are the things I want to do? What we know from behavioral economists is that we're not very good long-term thinkers, we human beings. And probably the smartest thing you can do is to create some sort of game plan, outline some goals, and figure out the best way to reach those goals. To me, that solves all the problems that come down the pike. And you can keep revisiting that plan every couple of years. But I think having a plan is so critical and it really does kind of trump your angel and devil on your shoulder that's always battling it out as you make these decisions. Well, money is certainly an important subject to talk about.

Starting point is 00:25:19 We don't talk about it a lot because, you know, it's not polite to talk about money. But as you say, you know, a lot of smart people do dumb things with it, so it's nice to get it out in the open. Jill Schlesinger has been my guest. She's a certified financial planner, a business analyst for CBS News, and a weekly guest on NPR's Here and Now program. She also has her own podcast called Jill on Money, and she's the author of a new book called The Dumb Things Smart People Do With Their Money. And you will find a link to that book at Amazon in the show notes for this episode. Thanks, Jill. Appreciate you being here. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a great pleasure.

Starting point is 00:25:58 Hey, everyone. Join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa Demonts, for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? Each week week we deliver four fun filled shows. In Don't Blame Me, we tackle our listeners dilemmas with hilariously honest advice. Then we have But Am I Wrong? Which is for the listeners that didn't take our advice. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events. Then tune in to see you next Tuesday for our Lister poll results from But Am I Wrong? And finally, wrap up your week with Fisting Friday, where we catch up and talk all things pop culture. Listen to Don't Blame Me,

Starting point is 00:26:30 But Am I Wrong? on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. Do you love Disney? Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. There is nothing we don't cover. We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed, but you definitely need in your life. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. How many times have you heard things like, attitude is everything. With the right attitude,

Starting point is 00:27:18 you can accomplish anything. Or he's got a winning attitude. We put a lot of stock in attitude. But perhaps we don't understand exactly what attitude can and cannot do. Someone who's really studied the power of attitude is John Maxwell. John is one of the real thought leaders when it comes to leadership and winning. He has written truly an amazing number of books, like The 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership and the 21 Indispensable Qualities of a Leader. And his books have collectively sold over 19 million copies around the world. He's a speaker and a coach and a really smart guy.

Starting point is 00:27:58 One of his many books is The Difference Maker, Making Your Attitude Your Greatest Asset. Hi, John. Welcome. So you say that attitude is an outward expression of an inward feeling. So let's start with that. Explain that. We can always tell a person has a bad attitude because we see it. I mean, even if they don't say anything, attitude is something on the inside that has to come on the outside. So when a person says something they wish you wouldn't have said, oops, I didn't mean to say that. They really did.

Starting point is 00:28:34 They just didn't mean for it to come out. And attitude gets it out. That's what an attitude is. Therefore, a person doesn't even have to say something. You can just look at them and say, oh my goodness, we've got trouble here. Well, one of the things you talk about that I've always liked is that you say that attitude is important, but despite what people say when they say things like attitude is everything and you can accomplish anything with the right attitude, you think that's not true.

Starting point is 00:29:05 Absolutely, Mike. I'm a motivational teacher, but I'm not a motivational speaker. You see, a motivational speaker makes you feel good, but the next day you're not sure why. A motivational teacher makes you feel good, but the next day you have some principles to apply in your life. And I think motivational speakers will tell you attitudes are everything. It's not.

Starting point is 00:29:30 I have watched people who have had wonderful attitudes and yet not be successful in life because attitude cannot replace incompetence. If a person is incompetent, it doesn't matter what kind of attitude they have, they're still not going to be successful. I don't even think it can replace good experience. And so I talk in the book about what attitude is not, not to take away from attitude, but to basically help a person understand that once they realize what it will do and what it won't do for you, what it will do for you is pretty amazing. And you give the example, I think it was you who gave the example, of people who have the right attitude,

Starting point is 00:30:01 but they don't have the ability to go along with it. And we see this in shows like America's Got Talent or American Idol, where amateur singers believe they sing well, they really believe they do, but objectively, they don't have the ability to go along with the attitude. Too often, Mike, I've heard people just say, if you can believe it, you can achieve it. It's just not true. I know a lot of people that have a dream, believe in that dream, work hard to see that dream fulfilled, but it's not in their skill set. They're not competent in that area. And I want people to understand that attitude is what I call an added value asset. It will take what you have and it will add value to you. It will make you better, but it won't make you. There's a difference.

Starting point is 00:30:54 An important difference that is often not distinguished. Correct. Absolutely. I have heard and listened and read too much stuff on attitude where I was turned off by the subject and really didn't get the good content, perhaps, that was there, because I just said the premise is wrong. And so the thesis of the book, The Difference Maker, is very simple. Attitude isn't everything, but it's the main thing that will make a difference in your life. That I really do believe. So where does my attitude and everyone else's attitude, where does

Starting point is 00:31:25 it come from? Well, it could be, you get it from your environment. You can get it from people that you hang with, your friends, your associates, but it's choice. And the thing that I love about teaching and writing in the area of attitude is the fact that it is a choice. And a lot of things, Mike, about you and me, we didn't choose. We didn't choose our parents. We didn't choose our DNA. We didn't choose our giftedness, skill level, ability, IQ. So a lot of things in life are just handed to us, and that's why they are. But attitude is a choice. And the reason I love to teach this is so many adults, Mike if you have the right attitude and the right determination, that that attitude can pull you through and make you better and increase your ability so you can be a winner.

Starting point is 00:32:35 Let's talk for a moment, Mike, about a person's ability. If, let's say, from a 1 to a 10, I'm a 3 in an area, I'm not very skilled or gifted, and I don't have a lot of ability in that area. I'm way below average, but I want to do it. So I work hard, and I really take lessons, get equipped, whatever. At best, Mike, I'm going to go from like a 3 to a 5. What I've learned about ability is you can probably, if you work hard and are diligent and committed, can jump about two numbers.

Starting point is 00:33:09 And the reason that we cannot go any higher than that is because it's not a choice. It's part of who we are. Attitude is a choice. When something is a choice, you can make a radical change in your life, unlike something that's not a choice. And so therefore, let's say I have a lousy attitude. Everybody dislikes me at work. I'm a one from a one to a ten, but all of a sudden I realize that, my goodness, this isn't helping me. I need to change the way I think.

Starting point is 00:33:32 I need to change my attitude, my expressions. And so it's possible for me, Mike, to go from a one to a ten in attitude because it's a choice. The swing is much greater in areas of choice than in areas that are not. So let's maximize those. Absolutely. That's's maximize those. Absolutely. That's what I say. Let's do something about something we can really do something about. And let's work on our attitude because it can make a radical difference in our life. And it will also obviously bump up the other things in life that aren't even choices.

Starting point is 00:34:01 You say that there are five things that can really tear at and ruin your attitude, and they are change, discouragement, problems, fear, and failure. So can you run down those for me? Oh, I'll be glad to. Mike, in the area of change, basically, people are against change. We all are. We don't like change. It takes us out of what is familiar. It takes us out of our comfort zone. I even discovered leaders don't like change unless it's their idea. And so when a person has to make needed changes, which we all do, because it's impossible to grow without changing,

Starting point is 00:34:41 that's an area where we have to take attitude adjustments and begin to say, okay, this isn't always what I like but this is good for me and so therefore I'm going to do it in the area of problems what I've discovered is that people with the most problems aren't the people that are unsuccessful in fact I would contend that usually successful people have more challenges and problems than unsuccessful people

Starting point is 00:35:04 because they attempt more and they risk more. So the problem isn't the problem. The problem is we think that the problem is the problem, and so the problem that isn't the problem becomes the problem. When, in essence, instead of us focusing on the problem, we ought to be focusing on our attitude. That's why two people can have the same problem, and one of them succeeds and one of them fails. Was it the problem that sunk them? No, it was the attitude. It was their reaction, their response to that problem.

Starting point is 00:35:31 In the area of discouragement, without any question, we all have our times of discouragement. But basically when I see discouraged people, they have one thing in common. Very simply, they're thinking about themselves. Very seldom does a person get discouraged about others. They're discouraged about something that's happening to them, or they're a victim, or why is it always me? And they're usually pretty much self-absorbed. So I work in the area of discouragement of helping a person begin to change that whole thinking and turn it around and begin to focus on other people i mean if i compare my problems with people that really have problems i come to the conclusion quickly i really don't have many problems so it's getting

Starting point is 00:36:14 out of ourselves and away from our feelings sorry for self that really helps us change our perspective which helps us get out of our discouraging area. In the area of fear, we all have fears. And yet, I have discovered that the successful people, again, do things that they don't really want to do. They live out of what I call a character-based life instead of an emotion-based life. And the reason they do that is because they have, through their attitude, determined that this is the right thing to do, and so therefore they do it even when they don't particularly care to.

Starting point is 00:36:53 Failure, my goodness, only basically two responses when a person fails. We either learn from our failure or we leave our failure. And the problem is if we leave our failure and run from it, we never learn from it. And so therefore, what do we do? We repeat the same failure over and over again. And people that really live what I call a failed life just keep doing the same wrong thing continually because they've never learned from it. But if I learn from the failure and I have an attitude that this is not the end, that I can get better because of it. If I learn from my failure, I not only never leave it because I, after a while, begin to embrace it as a friend,

Starting point is 00:37:32 but I grow from it and develop myself. So, again, I talk about attitude and how that in these five big obstacles of life, we can have an attitude become an asset instead of a liability to us. Well, when I listen to someone like you, you know, I can hear your attitude coming through. I mean, you have a very strong, powerful, positive attitude. You seem very confident. Does your attitude, do you ever have a bad attitude about something? Oh, absolutely. And I write the books, you know what I'm saying? And the reason why is there's no such thing as a permanent good attitude.

Starting point is 00:38:16 My attitude needs to continually be adjusted. And because I know that, I adjust it. What I have discovered is people who seemingly think that their attitude is always going to be good aren't very conscious of the fact that when it kind of slips out of good and gets into average or down to kind of maybe poor. So I have to understand that every day I have fresh challenges. Every day I'm going to have some difficulties come my way, problems. And so I'm going to have to every day manage my attitude. You see, there's a difference between making a decision to have a great attitude. I've already made that. And then

Starting point is 00:38:49 managing that decision every day. Too many people make decisions, but they don't manage them. So therefore, decisions that were made aren't kept. Why? Because they were wrong decisions? Not at all. Maybe they were very good decisions. They weren't kept because they weren't managed. And when I understand my attitude isn't always going to be good, I'm more careful to manage it, which will keep it from getting bad. Well, of course, it's easy to have a great attitude when everything's going your way, but life has its own set of problems that it delivers to everyone. And that's when attitude becomes difficult. That's when attitude takes a beating. And it's hard to have a good attitude when you're faced with

Starting point is 00:39:31 problem after problem. And again, the right kind of attitude embraces difficulties and obstacles, not in embracing in the fact like I want them, but more in the fact that I need them. I can tell you as a fact that most people learn more out of their bad days than they do their good days, especially if they have a great attitude. When we're successful, there's a tendency for us to either get arrogant and proud and take the credit and not evaluate. But when we're unsuccessful, there's a tendency for us to say, okay, what went wrong? And that introspection with a good attitude is very good for us. As long as you don't let it destroy you. That's exactly right. Again, the attitude is the protector. It's not everything,

Starting point is 00:40:17 but it's the main thing. And the only difference between people who are destroyed by difficulty and people that are perhaps even made by difficulty almost every time is the attitude. So if you want to work on your attitude, if you want to have a better attitude as you go through life day to day, what does that mean? What does that mean to work on your attitude? How do you do it? The first thing it means to Mike is that I understand that it's a choice. You see, I'll never work on something I think I have no choice over. And so therefore, if I think my attitude is given to me because I work with you, Mike, and you're a bad guy, and so therefore my day's not a good day, if I think you're the blame for my attitude, I'll never work on it. I may try

Starting point is 00:41:04 to work on you, but I won't work on my attitude. So step number one on working on your attitude is understand it's a choice. Number two, take responsibility for it. Once I realize it is a choice, okay, now I'm responsible. Whatever attitude I have right now at this moment, I am totally responsible for. Then thirdly, learn how to have a good attitude. And I know you have some specific techniques that people can try to really improve their attitude. So share some of those with us. In the morning, every morning, I do an attitude adjustment before I go outside. I say things like traffic's going to be a little difficult, especially when I'm in the Atlanta area. It's just not going to be any fun.

Starting point is 00:41:48 It's going to go slower than I want, and people are going to probably be a little reckless. So, John, make a determination right now that you can handle this, that your attitude will be correct. I'm going to meet with people today, and not all my meetings are going to go like I want them to go. Somebody's going to say no when I want them to say yes. And so, therefore, when that happens to me, it's not final. Understand this is part of a process. Take high road.

Starting point is 00:42:15 So I do self-talk concerning my day in the morning, and the reason I do that is because I don't want to get out and then have something go negative to me and kind of be caught unaware, and all of a sudden I've kind of gone into kind of a low response where maybe everybody else lives, and that's been a huge help to me. Second thing I do is on the flip side, Claire, I book in these days. At the end of the day, I review my day. You see, experience isn't the best teacher, Mike. Evaluated experience is the best teacher. If experience were the best teacher, as people get older, they get better. And that's not true. Only people who evaluate what they go

Starting point is 00:42:57 through, assess what they go through, and then are willing to change it, do things get better for. So at the end of the day, I reflect on my day. Hey, what did I do well? Hey, what did I not do well? What do I wish I could have changed about my attitude today? And I reflect so that I can learn, so I can be better prepared the next day. Well, I like that line you said at the beginning of this conversation, that attitude isn't everything,

Starting point is 00:43:20 but it is the main thing that'll make a difference in your life. John Maxwell has been my guest. He is the author of, I don't know, four million books. And the one we're talking about today is The Difference Maker, Making Your Attitude Your Greatest Asset. And you'll find a link to that book in the show notes. Thank you, John. Do you have those little crow's feet wrinkles at the edge of your eyes yet? If you do, smile. A recent study revealed some interesting perceptions of those wrinkles, which are often the very first wrinkles you notice as you age.

Starting point is 00:43:59 Participants looked at photos of people with and without those little crow's feet wrinkles at the edge of their eyes. Those who had them were judged as more attractive. Their smiles were also considered more authentic and spontaneous. And both men and women with crow's feet were also perceived as more intelligent. And that is something you should know. Remember that the best way to support this podcast is to do business with our advertisers if what they're offering sounds interesting to you. And if you hear in one of those advertisements a special website or a promo code, you will find that information in the show notes.

Starting point is 00:44:39 I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer,

Starting point is 00:45:16 unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook. Starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a co-founder of the Go Kid Go Network.

Starting point is 00:45:41 At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network called The Search for the Silver Lightning, a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. During her journey, Isla meets new friends,

Starting point is 00:46:00 including King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table, and learns valuable life lessons with every quest, sword fight, and dragon ride. Positive and uplifting stories remind us all about the importance of kindness, friendship, honesty, and positivity. Join me and an all-star cast of actors, including Liam Neeson, Emily Blunt, Kristen Bell, Chris Hemsworth, among many others, in welcoming the Search for the Silver Lining podcast to the Go Kid Go Network by listening today. Look for the Search for the Silver Lining on to the Go Kid Go Network by listening today. Look for the Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple,

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