Something You Should Know - SYSK Choice: Effective Ways to Make Big Changes & The Benefits of Thinking for Yourself

Episode Date: June 18, 2022

People like reruns. We like to watch old TV shows and movies over and over again, we often order the same meal at a restaurant, listen to the same songs- maybe even reread a book. Why? This episode begins with an interesting explanation. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-you-like-to-watch-the-same-thing-over-and-over/ Change is hard. Who hasn’t tried to make a change in their life only to have it fail? Is there a way to tilt the odds in your favor and make the process easier? Joining me to discuss this is Ross Ellenhorn. He is a sociologist, psychotherapist and social worker and author of the book How We Change (and 10 Reasons We Don’t) (https://amzn.to/2VeIUSx). He has some important advice on how to make changes – and make them stick. Are we losing our ability to think for ourselves? After all, no matter what problem you have, there is some app or YouTube video or some expert with a solution. While help is good, it is also important to think for ourselves and some people believe we are losing our ability to think critically and make our own decisions. Vikram Mansharamani is a lecturer at Harvard and author of the book Think For Yourself: Restoring Common Sense in an Age of Experts and Artificial Intelligence (https://amzn.to/2A30BNs). Listen as he makes the case for more critical thinking when it comes to the big decisions in life and how to do it. Did you know spring fever is real and has real symptoms Listen as I explain what the symptoms are and what it means if you have them. https://www.thestar.com/life/health_wellness/diseases_cures/2010/04/29/spring_fever_has_scientific_basis_psychologist.htm PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! Go to https://Shopify.com/sysk for a FREE fourteen-day trial and get full access to Shopify’s entire suite of features! Truebill is the smartest way to manage your finances. The average person saves $720 per year with Truebill. Get started today at https://Truebill.com/SYSK! If you drive a car or truck, you need GetUpside, https://app.getupside.com/for-people/gas the FREE gas app that pays you cash back for every gallon of gas you buy! If you're the type of person who's always thinking about new business ideas or wondering “What’s the next side hustle I should spin up?” — check out the podcast My First Million! Today is made for Thrill! Style, Power, Discovery, Adventure, however you do thrill, Nissan has a vehicle to make it happen at https://nissanusa.com Listen to Curiosity Daily on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Discover matches all the cash back you’ve earned at the end of your first year! Learn more at https://discover.com/match Get all of the supplies & tools you need to get your job done! Visit https://ferguson.com With Avast One, https://avast.com you can confidently take control of your online world without worrying about viruses, phishing attacks, ransomware, hacking attempts, & other cybercrimes! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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That's why there's BetterHelp Online Therapy. Connect with a credentialed therapist by phone, video, or online chat. Visit betterhelp.com to learn more. That's BetterHelp.com. Today on Something You Should Know, reruns. Why is it we like to watch old TV shows we've already seen? Then, making a change, like losing weight or changing jobs, why is it so hard? All the famous existential philosophers talked about this thing called the terror of our authorship, this fear of being in charge of our lives.

And every time you make even the smallest change, you see that you are the author, you are the person driving that life, and that's scary. Also, spring fever. It turns out to be a real thing with real symptoms. I'll tell you what they are. And the human ability to think critically. Are we losing it? What we've done is we've outsourced our thinking to experts and those with a narrow focus on the area of interest.

The result is I think we've lost our ability to think for ourselves. And what I'm suggesting is we try to get it back. All this today on Something You Should Know. Metrolinks and Crosslinks are reminding everyone to be careful as Eglinton Crosstown LRT train testing is in progress. Please be alert as trains can pass at any time on the tracks. Remember to follow all traffic signals. Be careful along our tracks and only make left turns where it's safe to do so.

Be alert, be aware, and stay safe. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome to Something You Should Know. You know, I've always found it interesting how people, human beings, like the familiar, right?

We listen to the same music over and over again. I mean, there are plenty of new songs to listen to, but we like familiar music. We like to watch reruns of old TV shows. Netflix is full of movies that you watch that you've probably seen before. When you go out to eat, you probably have ordered the same thing that you ordered last time, even though the menu is full of new items. Well, according to a study in the Journal of Consumer Research, reruns are really good for us. Not only does repeating a

favorite experience tap into the good vibes you felt the first time around, you'll also see, hear, or feel some things that you missed the first time around. How many times have you watched a movie the second time and seen things that you completely missed the first time? Or listened to a song maybe the tenth time and heard things you hadn't noticed before? Your brain will always find something new to discover when it's taking in a familiar favorite. And that is something you should know.

Change is hard. Everyone knows that. But why is change so hard? Whether it's losing weight or saving more money or whatever the change is that you want to make, you're the one that wants to make it or you think you want to make it or you say you want to make it.

And yet so often the change doesn't stick. Why? Well, here to shed some light on that and to offer some ways to make change stick is Ross Ellenhorn. He's a sociologist, psychotherapist, and social worker, and he's author of the book, How We Change, and 10 Reasons We Don't. Hi, Ross. It's nice to be here.

So there is, I think, a fairly universal experience that people have that they identify a change they want to make. They do so because they think it's important, and yet they can't seem to stick with the change. So why? What's going on here? Change always has to do with this very difficult emotion, which is called hope. And hope, when you hope for something, you automatically place value on something that you didn't value as much before you hoped for it. And you also recognize that there is something that you don't have in your life. There's something important to get and something you're lacking. If you think about, you know, when your parents asked you what you want for your birthday and you weren't sure, and the minute you said bike,

all of a sudden bike became more important than before you said it. And then you felt like you were a person who lacked a bike in his life. And now you're at a place of risk because if you don't get that bike, you're going to recognize you don't have it. And you're going to recognize that something you made important, you don't get to have. And that's true with all change. If you hope to lose weight, you're placing yourself in a position of now heading towards something that's going to make you feel more disappointed than if you never had headed in that direction anyways. That's what people mean really by don't get your hopes up, right? I've always thought that when people can't make a change, whether it's to quit smoking or to lose weight or whether it's to get the dishes from the sink into the dishwasher, whatever the

change is, if you can't seem to make it happen, it's because it isn't that important at that time. You know, when company's coming over, then it's easy to make sure the dishes are in the dishwasher because you want to clean up because company's coming over. But if company isn't coming over, well, the dishes can sit in the sink. It's just not important enough at that time. It might be later, but right now, it's just not that important. That fits in with this model, but it doesn't complete it. Because the thing can actually be very important to you, but you might be terrified

of trying again. It might be so important that you're worried about doing it again and not having it happen. And you're worried about that experience of disappointment in yourself. And that's what I call a concept called fear of hope. It's actually something that we're researching now at Rutgers University. And that is this feeling like I don't want to hope again because I don't want to have this experience of my own incompetence and my own inability to make things happen if the thing doesn't happen. So sometimes something could be so important that it stops us in the tracks. Because it's easier not to try because if you don't try, you won't fail. And if you don't fail, you're not a failure.

Right, right. It's a little different than fear of failure. It's fear of this kind of sense that you can't make your life work, right? I can't. It's a very almost existential experience. I am the person driving my life, and I'm not a very good driver. I've been left on this earth to take care of myself, to make sure my life works, and this is another example of where I'm not that good at this event. Every time you change is a really kind of profound moment because it's you working on yourself. And in that moment, you're really taking responsibility for yourself in a way that can be scary. All the famous existential philosophers talked about this thing called kind of the terror of our authorship,

this fear of being in charge of our lives. And every time you make even the smallest change, you're doing something that makes it so that you see that you are the author. You are the person driving that life. And that's scary. The mental health field has this medical term called anxiety. But philosophers have been talking about anxiety for years. Anxiety is the thing you feel when you recognize you're in charge charge you're alone and it's up to you to make your life meaningful

so is the is the goal to feel the fear and do it anyway or is the goal to get rid of the fear so it's easier to do my suggestion is that the goal is to actually find a way to have some affection for that part of you that's stopping you from changing to recognize that that part of you that's stopping you from changing. To recognize that that part of you is really screwing up, but it's doing its job too. It's the same part of you that tells you to wear your seatbelt. It's this careful part of you that's protective. And when it sees something scary, it basically tells you don't go towards it. And if we just hate it, and we're just angry at it, we're actually angry at something that doesn't deserve our anger, and it won't get us anywhere. Because there's reasons why it's holding

us back. And if we can understand those reasons, and actually appreciate them, then we also know what we're leaving behind when we change. Does that make sense to you? Yeah, it makes sense in kind of a theoretical way. But give me a, like, use a real specific example to illustrate what you're talking about. If I start eating better, and my family notices that I start eating better, then a week from now when I start eating bad again, they're going to notice that I'm eating bad. And I don't want that feeling of them recognizing that I've tried something and failed at it. Now, if I can recognize that the reason why I keep eating bad is because of that, I can say, yeah, that kind of makes sense. There's Russ doing that thing again where he doesn't want to disappoint people.

And it might disappoint them. And I appreciate the fact that that's what's holding me back. But maybe I should just keep trying. Because that's not a good enough reason to hold me back. The motivation to change has to come from inside. Yes, it can't be because somebody tells you, you know, you really need to quit smoking or you really need to lose weight. If you don't believe it, or if it's not important, there's no motivation to even try. That's right. So it's got to be important, but it's also, it's all, you've also got to recognize that there was something good in the thing too. It can't be

just, I'm running from this bad thing because you were doing it for significant reasons too. The smoking made you feel good. It, it made you feel a little lighter in the evening. It gave you some sense of your sort of your own autonomy and independence. And you have to recognize what was good about it in order to move on from it. And too much advice is just basically saying this is bad and dangerous and you're doing something wrong instead of take a look at what was good in that thing before you give it up. To just say this is important to me and I'm going to move forward doesn't typically work. You need to kind of look at what you're leaving behind when you move forward. One of the interesting things I find about change is when people actually make a change. They set a goal, they make a change, they accomplish the goal, and then they fall back.

And I guess cigarettes are the best example of that. But I know someone, I know several people, but I'm thinking of someone in particular who quit cigarettes for a long time, like years, and then went back to smoking. And it was hard for them to quit in the first place, but eventually they went back to smoking. And yet that person probably gets a lot,

not out of the nicotine, but out of the event of smoking. And yet that person probably gets a lot, not out of the nicotine, but out of the event of smoking. And if we're only having conversations with that person about the high of the nicotine and not the joy of being with friends and smoking, we're not really having a conversation about the entire thing that they're giving up and that they have to give up to move on. And it becomes a kind of secret, you know? It's the thing that's not discussed. The wonderful feeling of solitude a person can have when they're sitting somewhere smoking just by themselves, you know? Or the feeling of smoking amongst friends like your friend.

These are things that are hard to access without a cigarette, and you have to kind of give them up. We live in ways of thinking about people where it's basically we say smoking's bad and something's wrong with you for smoking, instead of saying you may have to give up this really great thing. Well, I think part of that feeling of, oh, you're smoking and you're bad, that's bad, is the fact that smoking has become so unacceptable, that so few people smoke compared to several years ago, that you're now the outcast. You're the one smoking outside by yourself in front of the building when everybody else is still inside because you're the one who

smokes. Yeah, I think that's true. And if you were to think in those fields again that I was talking about, the things that cause us to quit and the things that get in the way of us quitting, I think that the stigma of smoking has helped a lot of people quit people that wanted to before one more thing that made it good was removed. Right. Right. And so people couldn't quit before as easily as they can quit now because there was more in their field, the things around them that made it okay to smoke. And again, that's why we shouldn't be thinking about human change as this sort of just individual thing. It's an individual, but it's an individual that's connected to all kinds of strengths, all kinds of things that can move them forward, and all kinds of things that are holding them back. We're talking about change today, how people change or how they don't change. And we're

talking with Ross Ellenhorn. He's a sociologist, a psychotherapist and author of the book, How We Change. Bumble knows it's hard to start conversations. Hey. No, too basic. Hi there. Still no. What about hello, handsome? Who knew you could give yourself the ick? That's why Bumble is changing how you start conversations. You can now make the first move

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Melissa and Doug makes toys that help kids take on the world because the way they play today shapes who they become tomorrow. Melissa and Doug, the play is pretend, the skills are real. Look for Melissa and Doug wherever you shop for toys. So Ross, it sometimes seems that when people decide to make a big change in their life, one of the things that makes it so difficult is that in addition to the change itself, they attach this huge importance to it, that I've got to do this. If I don't do this, that it becomes so important that you're almost dooming yourself to fail. Yes. It's my belief that each of us is deep down terrified of one thing, and that is that it's up to us to make our lives as deep and meaningful as possible. That is a terrifying prospect.

And every time you try, no one else is going to do it for you. You're exposed as working on that project. And that's terrifying. Most of the're exposed as working on that project. And that's terrifying. Most of the time, we're hiding from that idea. Most of the time, we're trying to fake ourselves out that we don't recognize that we're in charge of making this life work. We don't want to see it. And when you change, you're doing this existentially honest thing, this thing that's saying, yeah,

you're the person making this happen. And most of us really don't want to look at that. And so that's the real reason that we kind of have, that we need hope. And we need a lot of these other things to push us forward towards change, because always in front of us is this force of having to look at our, or what's called existential accountability, to look at our, our responsibility to make our lives work. And that's terrifying. And that comes up even when you just want to lose weight or even when you want to get the dishes from the sink in the dishwasher.

It's you deciding to do it and then you having to recognize that you're actually in charge. Well, there's the big picture of wanting to change, of wanting to lose weight and realizing that it's your job to do that. But on a more granular level, it seems to me, in my experiences, it's a lot easier to actually do the things that get you there if you have accountability to someone else. Yeah. At the point when you're willing to get accountability from somebody else,

you're at the place where you're going to change. In other words, things have shifted in those forces that hold you back and push you forward, that you're willing to use somebody to make you accountable, that there is a place in our lives where we are doing the pros and cons of changing. And that's what we call contemplation. And it's at that point where all kinds of things can help you change, because you're actually ready to change, including having someone make you fail, you can still try again. I mean, it's not one bite at the apple. In fact, most people probably have to try multiple times to stop smoking or lose weight or quit drinking or whatever it is they're doing, that it isn't all or nothing once and you're done. Oh, so let me try again? Yeah. Let me try again. And that felt really bad.

And I don't know if I want to have that feeling again. There's a, there's a part of me that just doesn't want to have that feeling again. Now, if you can spend some time looking at that. Oh, so there's a part of me that doesn't want to have that feeling again. Yeah, I get that. I kind of love that part of me. I get, I get why I would do that. Doing that is going to more likely get you to change than just telling yourself to pick yourself up from your bootstraps and try again. But to say, I get why I'm staying the same. That's me taking care of myself. It's just that it's too experience that if you want to make change,

that one at a time is probably better. Like if you decide, I'm going to be healthy now, and I'm going to run five miles a day, and I'm going to eat, you know, a vegan diet, and I'm going to do all these things, you're probably not going to do any of them for very long, because it's just too much. Would you agree? Accepting where you are right now and not accepting where you are right now, right? That to change means I'm not liking something about me and I'm going to change it. But the only way to change is to have some acceptance of yourself. And so change always brings that up. And when people get frenetic about all kinds of changes at one time, it's because they can't stand that place of, there's something about me I got to change.

So they go running around trying to find the way to solve this as quick as possible with every mechanism possible, because it's just too painful to look that there's a thing in their lives they want to change but don't you think it's just part of being it doesn't seem to me there's a human being alive who looks in the mirror and goes yep perfect nothing to change here this is as good as it's going to get i think everybody wants to change something yeah everybody wants to change something and everybody uh is lives in an environment at least in the united states where the message is you should and then everybody lives in a place of deep guilt and shame that they're not changing that thing but you know we're the we're the only animal that decides to change and that's different than just changing. That means I'm making a decision about myself, and I'm taking charge of myself. And that's a scary thing. It raises larger issues for us about our own accountability for our lives.

So boil this all down for me. If somebody wants to change, what's the advice? The advice is to spend some time contemplating what's good about what they're doing now. What is working in their lives? What is working in staying the same? What do they get out of it? It's also to look at what it is that's scaring them and what are they doing that's protecting them because of that. So a person wants a diet and they're they doing that's protecting them because of that. So a person wants a diet and they're not doing it to take a look and say there's a part of me that doesn't want me to be disappointed again in myself and I'm going to spend some time appreciating that part of me

because that's not so bad. That's a part of me that wants to be okay and to do that gives you more chance of actually dieting than to just say I have to lose weight and I'm a failure if I don't do it. Well, going into this discussion, I think everybody knew that change is hard, just from their own experience, but now we have some insight as to why that is. My guest has been Ross Ellenhorn. He's a sociologist, psychotherapist, and social worker, and his book is called how we change and 10 reasons we don't you'll find a link to that book in the show notes thanks ross yeah thank you very much

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Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back, and in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed, critical thinker. Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, yeah, sure, the internet has changed our lives. There's nothing you cannot find, no question you cannot find the answer to on the internet. But at what cost?

Technology makes it very easy not to think for yourself. You don't need to know how to read a map because your GPS will tell you turn by turn how to get there. That's just one example of how we've turned over our thinking to technology and to experts. And it's not necessarily a good thing. Vikram Manchuramani is a global trend watcher. He's a lecturer at Harvard University, and he's author of the book, Think for Yourself. Hey, Vikram, welcome to Something You Should Know. Hey, Michael. Thanks for having me.

So, explain what's gone wrong with our thinking, because I couldn't agree more that people seem to not think so much for themselves anymore. But what happened? Actually, Michael, I think it has to do with this overflowing information overload that we're suffering through. As many of us live in modern life, we have found that we're getting data and information in volumes that we simply can't digest. Knowledge has moved forward, progress has taken place, and because of this explosion in data and information, we've also seen an explosion in choice. The result is we believe there is a correct answer for virtually every choice we make. There is an optimization problem to be solved. We may not have the tools, but you know what? There are some who do. Those with a narrow focus on the area of interest at that particular time. The result is I think we've sort of lost our ability to think for ourselves.

And, you know, what I'm suggesting is we try to get it back. Well, but there does seem to be some logic in calling an expert, getting some expert advice. I could think for myself and try to figure out what the plumbing problem is, but I think I'm better off calling a plumber. I'm better off calling a brain surgeon when I need a brain surgeon. So there certainly is a role for experts. That's right. And my problem with the lack of thinking, Michael, is not the dependence on experts. We simply can't avoid the use of experts in our lives.

That's just not a reality of modern life. What I'm suggesting is the mindless outsourcing of our thinking to experts is really problematic. In fact, I would even go so far as to say the mindless outsourcing of our thinking to experts is as problematic as the blunt dismissal of experts could be. What I'm suggesting is that we mindfully engage experts to extract the value that they offer without giving up our autonomy. And the phrase I use is, it's important for us to keep experts on tap, but not on top. So give me some examples. I think I saw one in the press material about, you know, people who will like follow their GPS into a deserted parking lot, because that's what it told them to do. But what are some other examples of this kind of mindless

turning over our thinking? Medicine offers a spectacular domain where people outsource their thinking to particular specialists. And there's nothing wrong with following or taking the advice of an expert doctor or even more specialized medical professional, but it's important to keep it in context because all of these experts have silos and they have boundaries of their knowledge in terms of where it's applicable. So maybe an example would help illustrate that. You know, what I can do is describe a situation. You know, imagine the situation, Michael, you go to your cardiologist, and your doctor says, Michael, your cholesterol has been creeping up. I'm not

comfortable with it. I think you should get on a statin. So success, your cholesterol goes down. And we've outsourced our thinking and we think we're successful. However, if you take into account that next year, you are likely to go see your endocrinologist. And this doctor is going to say, Michael, I'm not comfortable. Your cholesterol levels, I understand went down, but now your blood sugar levels are a little bit higher. Actually, there's another problem here. It looks like you're pre-diabetic. And uh-oh, when you're pre-diabetic, you are getting a higher risk of heart attack.

Now, it turns out the reason that is the case is because we're crossing silos and we're leaving the boundaries of a cardiologist's focus. So the cardiologist's focus on heart health, but the impact of a statin could be in many people to have an impact on your blood sugar levels by interfering with the enzyme that controls insulin. So the reason I bring this up as an example is we're logical to outsource our thinking to a doctor, but because there are multiple doctors each living in silos, there's only one person who sees the whole, and that's you.

And so we need to think for ourselves, ask the questions, connect the dots. And in fact, what I would suggest in these domains where we're overwhelmed with specialized knowledge is to use multiple experts rather than one. Multiple experts with different perspectives and ask them to help you understand a particular action that you're about to take. So, you know, asking an endocrinologist about a statin to lower cholesterol, a lot of them will actually say, well, you know, there is this other side effect that happens. And so that's what I'm suggesting. If you are so unfamiliar with all of this, how do you, even though you see it from a different perspective, how do you make a decision? You know, I've heard the example of, you know, if you're having

back pain and you go to a surgeon, well, guess what he's going to suggest you do? And if you go to a chiropractor, guess what he's going to suggest you do? But who's right? How do you know who's right? That's right. Yeah. So this is where it's really important to feel empowered to ask lots of questions. And so I actually think to really understand complex, uncertain situations like the one you're describing, where we don't know what's wrong with your back, it's really important to get disagreement on the table, to actually get that surgeon's perspective who says, okay, we recommend surgery, or to go to the chiropractor who recommends three days a week of an hour, or to go to, I don't know, a physiologist who says, actually, it's muscular

strength development that we need to do, or to someone who's going to claim it's diet, or someone else who's got medication. I think it's actually important to get all of those perspectives and to battle them out, and then to figure out the questions that give you comfort for your personal situation. So oftentimes there is no one right answer. There may be multiple paths as we figure something out. And having multiple options to choose from allows you to think and take into, to own this problem, right? Because like you said, everyone has their own perspective and those perspectives can be biased. You know, Warren Buffett says, never ask a barber if you need a haircut. Of course you do, right? So I think

you're right to highlight that there are people that come with existing biases and perspectives. And my argument is every single perspective is biased and incomplete. So what we should try to do is triangulate by using multiple perspectives. Is the inability or the unwillingness to do this, is this, you think, a new thing that's getting worse? Or is this just the human condition and we're just looking at it, but it's always been this way? Or where are we on this? Yeah, so I do feel like it's getting worse.

And I think part of that has to do with where we started, right? I mean, I think more information, more choices, more overwhelmed. And honestly, it's trying. It takes effort to actually think for yourself. It takes actual, concerted, focused expenditure of energy. And it's easier. Look, maybe we're lazy in some capacities, but it gets very trying to constantly think for yourself. So I'm okay with the mindless outsourcing in low stakes decision.

And I think that's okay, right? You're going to watch a movie tonight. Well, Netflix recommends this. Okay, fine. Like, I mean, do you really need to pull out a spreadsheet and optimize and ask a movie critic or ask three friends or no, watch the movie. It's fine. Right. And so in some situations, outsourcing your thinking is logical. You're going to go get your car fixed. And the mechanic says, you need an oil change, and we're going to change the brakes. That's another $240 or something. You could go get a second opinion and triangulate, but honestly, the stakes are kind of low. He's going to fix your

brakes. If he replaces it a little earlier, okay, well, the cost is high to go get another opinion. So I think it really has to do with also the nature of the problem. But I do think we're becoming more and more accustomed to just listening and doing what we're told. And that bothers me. Does this mostly apply to decisions, thinking about decisions? Or I often think, you know, when I was a kid, because we didn't have smartphones, I remembered in my head, I don't know how many people's phone number because you had to. Nobody remembers phone numbers anymore. Does that fit into what you're

talking about? A little bit. I mean, that's just also just technology providing a tool for memory in this situation. So I don't think of that as much because you could easily, rather than keep it in your phone, you could have written it down in an address book. I mean, I remember having an address book where I would flip through the pages and find someone's name and there's their phone number. So that's more of a memory crunch. I'm talking about, you know, when you use the GPS example that follows you. Here's a great example where my senses is most people would just follow the GPS. Let's say there's been a snow day and the schools are closed.

You're going to a location that's on the other side of the school and you're not 100% sure of the exact address. So you decide to engage your GPS device and you put in the final destination. And it takes you or recommends a route that goes really far out of the way. And it goes and mainly because there are sort of dark yellow, maybe even orangish lines indicating traffic near the school. But you know that a school holiday is in effect because of the snowstorm. Do you follow the GPS or do you override it? Most people would just follow the GPS, or maybe not most, but a lot of people will, rather than stopping and thinking, okay, hold on, it thinks there's traffic there based on a historical algorithm that says every Tuesday at 8 a.m. at this time and this way, there's traffic.

But is there really traffic today? Can I ask that question? Am I allowed to, et cetera? So there's an example where I would think it's more pertinent than the remembering phone numbers. But that's a good example of people follow the GPS because most of the time it's right. And everybody's had that experience where Waze or your car GPS takes you to some weird place or to some long, circuitous route. But most of the time, you can rely on it. And so maybe you put up with – because I've also had the experience of saying, this doesn't look right, and I've always regretted it. Yeah. Look, I think the point I'm getting at, I'm okay with letting devices and experts think

for you. What I'm not okay with is the blind outsourcing, the mindlessness of it. So I'm okay with you consciously doing what you just said, which is okay. I might be wrong every now and then, but I'm going to do this because the benefits far outweigh it. And I realize I will be derailed every now and then, but it's a worthwhile thing. And I'm choosing to give up my thinking. That's fine. I'm comfortable with that. Do you think that people, the kind of people that you are talking about that rely maybe too much on other people and other sources, do they know it? Would they self-identify as that if you asked him? Or do you think we do this, but we think, well, he's not talking about me? You know, I think there's a little of both. It's a great question because,

you know, it's almost definitional, right? If they're mindlessly doing it, then they're not aware of it. And if they're mindlessly doing it, then they may not find it applicable to them to say that they're doing it. But I do find that when you stop and ask yourself the alternative, so, okay, I'm taking the statin. What if I didn't? Who would I have asked? What possible impacts could it have, et cetera? You know, I think playing devil's advocate with the recommendations that are coming to you by your advisors can actually get you to either realize that you're mindlessly outsourcing and that there are other ways to view this situation or whether you're mindfully, proactively choosing to outsource your thinking.

And that's okay. If I'm listening to you and thinking, boy, I get what this guy's saying. I really, I'm on board. So what do I do different? How do you put your toe in the water here and start doing what you're saying if you're not inclined to do it? Sure. So the first thing I suggest is it's absolutely critical to constantly ask questions, particularly of the expert advice of the experts that are giving you advice. And one of my favorite questions to recommend, very easy to ask, not threatening, shouldn't create conflict is, okay, I appreciate this advice. How do you form your opinion? Why do you think this to be true? Why are you recommending this course of action?

What is your belief based upon? And I think asking a simple question like that can help unveil some of the assumptions that your advisor may have about the context in which the decision that you're making takes place. Now, they're not malicious, but they're siloed. And when they're siloed, they have a tough time seeing the big picture that you inherently understand. And so by merely asking that simple question, doctor, why do you believe this to be true?

And do you think it's based on information that is relevant to me, etc. Asking a question in a non-threatening way, doing so will help you understand what your option sets are, and will also help you understand whether the assumptions made by your expert are relevant and applicable to your context. So that's really important. And that's an easy, non-threatening way to begin this process. Another thing to do is to ask multiple experts, maybe even in adjacent or other areas. So for instance, would you be willing to ask your dentist about cholesterol and whether you should take a cholesterol reducing medication? So listening to that, I have a couple of thoughts I'd like to get you to comment on.

First of all, I mean, obviously for big decisions, this is important, but it sounds exhausting to go ask my endocrinologist and my eye doctor about my cholesterol. I'm not inclined to think that's a good idea. It seems like a waste of time. To do this for every big decision would give you so much information that now you don't know what the hell to do. Sure. No, I understand. And like I said, for high stakes decisions, I would recommend you actually think about this. But when they're lower stakes, or even if there's not enough time,

there's a cost to this process. What's the harm in going home and seeking disagreement on your computer? I mean, most people seek confirmatory evidence. I'm saying go seek the disagreement. Find the opposite information. It's only when we get disagreement that we can really understand what the situation's about and the trade-offs. And then the other thing is, as you describe it, it sort of sounds like what you're doing is you're pulling in all this information, but you have the perspective of not being in a silo. You see the big picture and you can then make a decision.

But even still, I'm going to have a bias. I'm going to be leaning one way or the other. I'm going to have my own beliefs. I'm not this objective guy who can pull off all this information and go, aha, there it is. Yep. No, again, I think it's eminently reasonable to rely on others. Think of yourself as an artist putting together a mosaic. Well, it's critical that you have tiles.

It's impossible to put together a mosaic without tiles. So you tap into experts for those tiles and you use them where they are helpful to you. But if it's not helpful to you and an expert may be misdirecting you, maybe you want to go get another expert or if you feel like you're not actually being heard or you think it's not pertinent to your context. You know, it reminds me of that. I think it was an Alfred Sloan quote, the former head of General Motors. He said something, I think he went into some meeting and, you know, everyone was in full agreement. And he says, you know, if we're all in agreement on this decision, then, you know, we should take a break and give ourselves time until the next meeting and give us some time to develop disagreement. Again, I'm paraphrasing. I don't forget. I don't remember

the exact quote. But the point was to really understand a complex, uncertain dynamic. You need some of those different perspectives on the table that will likely feel uncomfortable. But when the stakes are high enough, you really want to pursue that path. Well, I think it's a good idea to think a little bit more about how we think or don't think. And when we do want to blindly follow advice and when we want to think critically about what our choices are. Vikram Mansharamani has been my guest. He is a lecturer at Harvard and he's author of the book, Think for Yourself.

And there is a link to that book in the show notes. Thanks for being here, Vikram. Perfect. Thank you, Michael. Most of us probably think of spring fever as a state of mind, or perhaps something that doesn't really even exist at all. But there's more to it than that, according to Dr. John Abramowitz, a professor at the University of North Carolina.

He says there are some very real symptoms to spring fever. They can include daydreaming, falling in love, and an overwhelming urge to be outside. That's because nice weather signals the brain to secrete endorphins, triggering a strong feeling of well-being. There is no known cure for

spring fever, and you may not want to take it even if there was one. And some people are more at risk than others. If you think you may have spring fever take it even if there was one. And some people are more at risk than others. If you think you may have spring fever, don't ignore it. Make an appointment with Mother Nature. Your body is probably trying to tell you it could use a change of scenery, some fresh air, and some vitamin D.

And that is something you should know. The best way our audience grows is when people like you share it with someone they know. So, please do. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced.

She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. And though we have seen, of course, every episode many times, we figured, hey, now that we're wrapped, let's watch it all again. And we can't do that alone.

So we're inviting the cast and crew that made the show along for the ride. We've got writers, producers, composers, directors, and we'll, of course, have some actors on as well, including some certain guys that played some certain pretty iconic brothers. It was kind of a little bit of a left field choice in the best way possible. The note from Kripke was, he's great, we love him,

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