Something You Should Know - SYSK Choice: How Machines Shape Our Destiny & How to Connect With Anyone

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Starting point is 00:00:27 Download June's Journey now on Android or iOS. Today on Something You Should Know, you know those little silica gel packs they put in shoeboxes and electronics? How dangerous are they if you eat one? Then you might not think you could have a relationship with a robot, but think about your relationship with your phone. How many people woke up in bed this morning with their smartphone next to them? Most people, their smartphone knows more about them than their spouse does. It's not a sexual relationship. It's not a romantic relationship. It's an emotional

Starting point is 00:00:58 relationship. You know, how do you feel if you lose your smartphone? Also, who is Mrs. Claus, and what does she do? And making friends and creating connections. How do you do it? Well, first of all, be approachable. The truth is, your facial expressions, your eye contact, whether or not you're smiling may impact whether somebody takes the chance of walking across that room to say hello and to initiate that interaction if they don't know that it's going to be well received. All this today on Something You Should Know. Metrolinks and Crosslinks are reminding everyone to be careful

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Starting point is 00:02:03 And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hey, welcome to Something You Should Know. So the other day I was opening up a box of something. I forget what it was. My son was with me and whatever it was we were opening, it was shoes. It was a a shoe box a new pair of shoes and in the box along with the shoes was one of those little silica gel packs you see them everywhere you know they absorb moisture and they're in boxes that electronics come in or leather goods and even some food products put those little packets, those silica gel packets in them to absorb moisture.

Starting point is 00:02:46 And there's always a warning on those packets. Sometimes there's a skull and crossbones. Don't eat this. Makes it sound like it's some sort of horrible poison. And my son asked me, well, what would happen if someone ate it? So I looked it up. And as it turns out, probably nothing would happen. Those little beads or that sand in those packets is inert.

Starting point is 00:03:10 There's nothing toxic about them. The serious hazard is that a small child might think it's candy and eat it and choke on it because the packet could get stuck in their throat. But the stuff in the packets is relatively harmless. Now, because, well, not relatively harmless, it is harmless. But now, since the purpose of those packets is to absorb moisture, it could dehydrate you a little bit, but basically there is no poison in it at all. And that is something you should know. Humans and machines have been interacting for a long time.

Starting point is 00:03:53 But that interaction over the years has gotten more complex. Some might even say intimate. And as machines become even more advanced and with artificial intelligence and robots, could we actually get to the point where we're relating to machines in a similar way that we relate to people? Could you have a serious conversation or even a relationship with a robot and interact with it as if it were a person? I mean, this is not a perfect example, but think about your smartphone. That is a machine that you have a very intimate relationship with, compared to, say, older cell phones or your old home phone. So this idea of humans relating to machines is actually a serious thing, and one that Deborah Spahr has taken a close look at.

Starting point is 00:04:38 Deborah is a professor of business administration at Harvard Business School. She's the former president of Barnard College, and she's author of the book, Workmate, Marry, Love, How Machines Shape Our Human Destiny. Hey, Debra, welcome to Something You Should Know. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you. So what's the point of all of this? Why look at this relationship between humans and machines? Because after all, machines are just machines. They're just metal and parts and things. So it's not really a relationship.

Starting point is 00:05:11 So what are you talking about? I'm trying to explain this kind of huge relationship that I see out there between technology and our more personal and private lives. And my experience has been both personally but more important from a research perspective is that all of these personal aspects of our lives are actually being shaped by how technology evolves and changes. And I know that sounds like a harsh and sort of cold thing to say, but I think it's true and I think it's important because if technology is changing in all these revolutionary ways we think about and the robots are coming and AI is coming, then if I'm right in saying that those changes also affect our personal lives, we really need to be on the lookout because the changes are coming fast and they're going to be really big. And so what are some of those changes that we may be starting to see already? How are machines and technology getting interspersed into our personal lives? Well, let me start by giving just what sometimes feels like a trivial example.

Starting point is 00:06:21 But most people today, or certainly a growing number of young people today, are meeting their partners, both their romantic partners and their sexual partners, online. They're not meeting in the old-fashioned church social or freshman English class or a bar. They're meeting on Tinder. They're meeting on Bumble. And middle-aged people like to look at that and sort of giggle and think it means that everybody's having more sex. But in fact, it's much more profound than that. First of all, people are actually having less sex, but they're also just forming relationships in really different ways. They're forming relationships in ways that are much more transactional. They're forming relationships in a context when there's always choice. I mean, literally people have hundreds,

Starting point is 00:07:03 depending on where they live and how attractive they're deemed, they have hundreds of potential partners in the palm of their hand. And that's a really big deal because it's changing relationships. The other area that I think is hugely important is reproductive medicine. So once upon a time for millions of years, we humans had our babies in exactly the same way. We have them through sex. But now, increasingly, people are using technology to produce the most basic product of all, which is the child. And people are using frozen eggs and purchased sperm and in vitro technologies. And this is a really big deal because it is changing not only the mechanism by which we produce children,

Starting point is 00:07:47 but sort of the process we go through. We're having children, for better and worse, much more methodically. And so one of the things that everything you just mentioned has in common is it's giving people lots of different choices, additional choices that they may not have had before. And I think people have a tendency to think that the more the better. That's exactly right. And what's interesting about that is when you do laboratory experiments, it turns out that too much choice is not always better. In many ways, it's confusing. So there's a famous set of experiments.

Starting point is 00:08:28 If you have free jam in a grocery store and you give people one or two variations, they're delighted and they taste the jam and they buy the jam and everybody's happy. If you give them like eight different varieties of jam to choose from, people just get confused. They don't want to deal with it. They walk away. They don't buy the jam. Now, that's a silly example, but if you imagine, you sort of carry that example over to online dating, we're starting to see similar things happen, that when people are

Starting point is 00:08:58 on a date, and yet they're simultaneously sort of looking at their phone and they're seeing a march of other people going across their palms. They're more likely to say, huh, I'm not so sure this person is the right one. Let me try another one. And so, you know, it's still early in this era. But if you project forward and you say, how is this going to shape relationships when people are used to being so transactional in how they're selecting their partners? And I think it's going to have pretty big effects. And I don't believe they're going to be necessarily for the better or for the worse, but they're definitely going to be different. Well, this whole idea of, you know, love and emotions and

Starting point is 00:09:41 connection with people and throwing machines into the middle of it all doesn't feel right in a lot of ways. It just feels like, but maybe that's just a sentimental way of looking at it, that love just should happen and maybe machines are better. Well, again, I try not to say better or worse. I think I'm just kind of, it is what it is. How can we make it the best possible? But, you know, every time I'm talking to a group

Starting point is 00:10:09 that I can see people cringe when I start talking about having emotional relationships with robots. And I can kind of read people's minds that they're sort of saying, this lady is crazy. I'm never going to have a relationship with a machine. And then I do the little thought exercise. You know, how many people in this room have a

Starting point is 00:10:25 smartphone physically on their body right now? Generally, 100% of a room. You know, how many people woke up in bed this morning with their smartphone next to them? You know, you can see how the logic runs. Smartphones are pretty simple technology given what they're going to evolve into, and yet we have embraced them. I mean, most people, their smartphone knows more about them than their spouse does. Without question. Right? And we don't think about that. It's not a sexual relationship. It's not a romantic relationship, but it's an emotional relationship. You know, how do you feel if you lose your smartphone? You know, it's like losing your dog. It's not like, you know, losing a child, but it's like losing some emotional part of you.

Starting point is 00:11:10 So we've already fallen in love with these machines. You know, how many people argue with Siri in their car, right? And these are the Model Ts of artificial intelligence. So we've kind of already agreed to enter into intimate relationships with these machines. Well, let's go back, because I think there is this perception that things have always been the old way, the nuclear family and all. But you make the case that marriage, as we understand it, resulted from the rise of agriculture and the nuclear family emerged from the Industrial Revolution, which seems awfully recent to me. Yes. This means going back across big swaths of time,

Starting point is 00:11:53 and the history gets murkier the further back you go. But there's pretty good evidence that suggests that way back when, before agriculture, our human ancestors didn't live in nuclear families. They lived in tribes. They lived in bands. They lived in groups of about 20 to 30 people. And that was your family. Those were the people you spent your life with. And obviously, women had children and took care of those children. But it doesn't seem like they raised those children with a particular man who also was the biological father of those children. The babies were kind of raised by the tribe. And it's not until you move into settled agriculture that you start to see this

Starting point is 00:12:37 norm of monogamy, and particularly monogamy for women. So the whole idea that a virgin is sold off to a man, because that's basically how it worked, and as part of the relationship, she promises to bear him children and never to have sex with anyone again, that's a relatively modern idea. I mean, it's 8,000 years old, but still in human history, it's relatively new. And I always have to caveat this by saying, you know, I've been happily married for 35 years. Both of my sons just got married this year. So I don't mean this as an attack on marriage. I just mean it to say the institution of marriage was an institution that came around because of a particular society. It was an agricultural society that needed women to bear children who would live long enough to farm the fields.

Starting point is 00:13:34 And that's why we have marriage. And so if you look at the data again, even though we still celebrate the big white weddings and the wedding has become incredibly ornate. The institution of marriage, this faithful monogamous connection, which is necessary to raise children, is just not necessary anymore. People have children all kinds of different ways. You know, gay couples have children, single people have children, much older people raise children. So we don't need marriage anymore as an economic or societal institution. We may like it, we may find love within it, but we don't need it anymore societally. And so if you look into the future, I mean, the signs are already there. And I don't

Starting point is 00:14:18 have the data in front of me, unfortunately, but the number of children who are produced and grow up in a heterosexual long-term couple is far less than the majority. Most babies are born into something that's quite different from a nuclear family. And my prediction for what it's worth is that that trend is just going to accelerate. We're talking about how machines have really changed the course of human events and how more advanced machines in the future may change things even more. My guest is Deborah Spahr. She's author of the book, Work, Mate, Marry, Love, How Machines Shape Our Human Destiny. This is an ad for better help. Welcome to the world. Please, read your personal owner's manual thoroughly.

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Starting point is 00:15:36 the housing market. We're built for Ted, who's obsessed with what's happening in the global markets. And built for Celine, who just wants to retire and explore the world's flea markets. So take a moment and think about what you're building for. We've got the financial tools to help make it happen. Wealthsimple. Built for possibilities. Visit wealthsimple.com slash possibilities. So, Debra, you make the point, and I think it's a really interesting point that people don't think about, that the automobile, the light, the electric light, and the pill, which maybe is the more obvious of the three,

Starting point is 00:16:15 are three things that really drastically changed courtship. So talk about that. So, there's a lot of history packed into that. But not so long ago, you know, the early 20th century, young couples didn't have many ways of courting and having their first sexual experience. You know, they sort of imagine the young man coming to woo the woman and he sat on the porch and her parents were there and her great aunt was there. And, you know, if they decided to get married, you know, sex came along later. But it was really the car that changed that because it was usually men. But, you know, once men, young men had access to cars, they could pick up that young woman from the front porch and take her somewhere else. And particularly when cars developed roofs, they created a privacy that young couples had just not

Starting point is 00:17:11 had, particularly people who weren't in rural environments. So there was a, I can't prove that this was the case, but certainly the kind of blowing up of morals during the 1920s was helped by the availability of cars. But certainly one of the biggest changes we've seen in personal relationships came around with the advent of contraception, and particularly the pill. Because throughout most of human history, women have had to live the bulk of their lives with the constant fear, sometimes hope, but oftentimes fear that if they had sex, they could get pregnant. And there was really nothing to do to stop that. You know, sex led to pregnancy, led to babies, kind of regardless of what the woman or the man wanted. Once you had contraception, and particularly the pill, because that was a very reliable means of conception that the woman controlled, then women, for the first time in

Starting point is 00:18:10 history, had some ability to time their children. They could have sex before marriage. They could have sex with people outside of marriage. They could have sex in marriage without having children or additional children. And again, that kind of changes everything. For sure, there are many reasons why women were able to move into the workforce in the latter decades of the 20th century. And there were activists and people who fought for women's rights. But a huge reason of why women were able to move into the workforce and to move up the ladder of the workforce was because of the pill.

Starting point is 00:18:46 So it was technology. We tend not to think of the pill as technology, but it's a massive technology. It's not a machine, but it's pharmaceutical. And it was that pharmaceutical that really changed women's lives. And this is not ancient history. My mother's generation didn't have access to the pill and I'm really the first generation that had access to the pill and not surprisingly, I'm also sort of part of the first generation

Starting point is 00:19:12 where it became commonplace for women to work. Okay, so I could probably sort of figure out ahead of time what you were going to say about the pill and what you were going to say about the car, but electricity, the electric light, explain that. Once you have streetlights, you change the nature of urban life. Cities become completely different. Nightlife happens. But the even bigger one is appliances.

Starting point is 00:19:39 The lowly washing machine. Most women, because it tended to fall on women, had to spend somewhere between 15 and 25 hours a week doing laundry before the washing machine came along. So you can't have another job if you're doing laundry for 20 hours a week. But once you have washing machines and refrigerators and stoves, but it's particularly washing machines and refrigerators, stoves, but particularly washing machines and refrigerators. It's these technologies that enable women to imagine being able to do something outside of the house, because up until that point, women did work 40 hours a week. They were just, you know, spending all of that time on housework. And so once electricity came along and appliances came

Starting point is 00:20:24 along, they, along with the pill, really were liberating forces for women. Yeah, well, you know what really captures my imagination when I was looking at this topic is, okay, so you take the washing machine, a fairly simple machine that fundamentally changes how people relate to each other. And the car, how car changed romance and dating and everything. So here are these machines that are relatively simple, making these huge changes that as machines get more technical, more advanced, more artificial intelligence, more robotic. How will these advanced machines interact with us to change things even more? I think we all know and we accept that technology is just changing faster and faster

Starting point is 00:21:16 and evolving yearly right now. And if I'm right in arguing that in the past, these big technological revolutions had these massive personal and social effects, then we really need to be worrying or at, but they're also going to change human relations because, like, some huge number of jobs, particularly for men, are as drivers. What happens to men when those jobs go away? You know, what happens to us as human beings as we live longer and longer? You know, it seems like a good thing, but it's worth thinking about, you know, if we can live to be 150, which is not that impossible as given the pace of medical

Starting point is 00:22:13 technologies. Well, how does that change us kind of in existential sense? How does that change marriage? You know, again, marriage came about when people got married at, you know, call it 16, and they, you know, they died before 40. You know, if you get married at 25, are you going to want to be married to that same person for 125 years? What happens when the rich people, rich people can live to 150 and poor people die at 70? You know, A, it's completely inequitable, but does it also spawn revolution? Probably. So those are these kinds of questions. You know, they don't have answers yet, but I think as we're looking at all of these technologies,

Starting point is 00:22:54 we need to go like the second and third step down and say, what's this going to do to marriage? What's this going to do to sex? What is this going to do to babies and how we produce them? And if you take it to an extreme, what if machines get so advanced and what if they become such a big part of our lives that we

Starting point is 00:23:13 actually, you know, actually enter into making friends with or actually being lovers with robots or machines. I mean, God, that kind of scares me. Why does it scare you if it's a loving relationship?

Starting point is 00:23:35 But it isn't. I mean, it can only be a one-way relationship. Well, you know, I'm not a computer scientist, but certainly some of the folks who work on robotics do talk about, you know, how do we know if machines love? But talking, you know, if it feels like love to you, does it matter? Like, do you really know what's going on inside the brain of the human being you're in a loving relationship with? I don't have to answer that question, but again, it's worth thinking about. Well, here's how I think about it. So if I'm in a relationship with a robot and I die, the robot doesn't care.

Starting point is 00:24:16 Somebody either sticks it in a closet or finds another person to go hang out with. The robot doesn't care. Oh, but maybe the robot does. Maybe, you know, when your dog, if you die, your dog misses you. Dog's not a human, but has some level of thought process. But the dog's alive. Has a brain, a real brain. Well, but see, but that's, you know, what is a real brain?

Starting point is 00:24:42 You know, we speak about people who are mentally incapacitated as still having brains. And then I would take your example, just perhaps to freak everyone out a little bit more, you know, run it backwards. What if two humans died in a way that it brings comfort to the person who's still alive? And, you know, every time I said that people get creeped have their voice on your answering machine or on your phone, do you get rid of it? Like, almost everybody says no. Like, you know, you listen to their voice. You know it's not them anymore. But you still feel an emotional connection to their voice, to their video image. As all of these images get better and better and more powerful, you know, if you could have some kind of a connection to

Starting point is 00:25:47 a robotic version of the human you love to is now dead, I think many people would want that. Again, it sounds creepy now, but there are already surfaces that are capturing people's digital selves and imagining how you can reanimate them. And it's creepy now, but fast forward the technology 50 years and it's not going to feel that creepy. Yeah, because the changes happen slowly, but then before you know it, you're engaged to a robot.

Starting point is 00:26:19 This has been really interesting to look back and explore how machines have changed our lives and then look into the future at how more advanced machines may change our lives even more. And yeah, it's really fascinating. Deborah Spahr has been my guest. She is a professor of business administration at Harvard Business School and the former president of Barnard College. The name of her book is Work, Mate, Marry, Love, How Machines Shape Our Human Destiny. There's a link to that book at Amazon in the show

Starting point is 00:26:51 notes. Thank you, Deborah. Thanks so much. This winter, take a trip to Tampa on Porter Airlines. Enjoy the warm Tampa Bay temperatures and warm Porter hospitality on your way there. All Porter fares include beer, wine, and snacks, and free fast-streaming Wi-Fi on planes with no middle seats. And your Tampa Bay vacation includes good times, relaxation, and great Gulf Coast weather. Visit flyporter.com and actually enjoy economy. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, Visit FlyPorter.com and actually enjoy economy. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world,

Starting point is 00:27:31 looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today.

Starting point is 00:28:16 Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. It's come up in conversations before on this podcast that generally today people feel more isolated, less connected, they have fewer friends than ever before. And my guess is that around this time of year, the holidays, it's when people feel that void most keenly in their lives. People wish they had more and better friends, or they wish they had someone special in their lives, or they just wish that that lonely feeling would

Starting point is 00:28:58 just go away. Dr. Alicia Nottiman has researched this problem and the solution of connecting better with people. And she is author of a book on the subject called Don't Be a Stranger, Creating Connections and Memorable First Impressions in Everyday Life. Hey, Alicia, welcome. Hi there, Michael. So why do you think we have such trouble, or many of us? I mean, some people are pretty good at connecting with others, but I think a lot of people don't feel they're great at making connections. You know, we hear that

Starting point is 00:29:30 we're social creatures, that we do best when we have people in our lives. And in fact, and perhaps even more importantly, that having people, connecting to people is good for your physical and mental health. So why is it so hard to do? You know, I think that there's a lot of whys. I think that there's a tremendous amount of fear that we oftentimes overlook. It's a fear of judgment. It's a fear of making a fool of ourselves. It's a fear of failure. It's a fear of rejection. If I attempt to reach out and nothing good comes of it, then it was a waste of time and energy. I think that that view is often short-sighted, though. It's the idea of what's in it for me instead of what's in it for the other person, what's in it for the universal, just kind of cosmic connection.

Starting point is 00:30:14 There's actually a dating expert named Matthew Hussey who has this theory, jokes about how it's so much easier to talk to somebody out of town, at a hotel, laying out at the pool, half naked, because there's no fear of, well, I'm never going to see this person again. So that fear of consequence goes away. If you make a fool of yourself, you're never going to see them again. And yet we go down the street to the coffee shop, you know, fully dressed for work, and we don't want to make eye contact with the person next to us. So I think that that's a huge part of it. It seems for a lot of people that trying to connect with someone, just to start a conversation, to see where it goes, is difficult in part because people think it's difficult. That, you know, I'm just not good at that. I'm not really good at reaching out to other people. And it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I think it's a point of changing

Starting point is 00:31:04 intentionality. So, choosing to connect with others or simply create opportunities for connection with others for the sake of being a part of the goodness that we want to see around us, rather than for what will come of it and or whether there's an ultimate return, if you think of it that way, on your investment in time. So, I have this kind of mantra I've come up with in my business world, and I reference it as do it scared, do it ugly, do it often. So just do something, whether the something is make eye contact with someone and smile, whether it's looking for something to compliment, everybody has a color or an accessory that they might potentially have on that you might draw attention to. It could be, I love that color on you, or that's a beautiful

Starting point is 00:31:45 pair of earrings, or gosh, I love your tie. And we can even use accessories to a way of making it easier for other people to initiate connection with us. So for example, if I have looney tunes on my socks, it's easy for somebody to see that I've got playfulness to me and say, oh my goodness, I love your socks. Where did you get them? Or to use a neon scarf intentionally as a way to create an opportunity for connection. And the more opportunities we capitalize on as far as just connecting with others, the easier it gets. We develop a sense of mastery in communicating with others around us. And you said, don't necessarily look for the big reward for this and hope that something comes of it.

Starting point is 00:32:28 But if nothing comes of it, so then why are we bothering? If nothing is going to happen, if this is just to fill the time and that's the beginning and end of it, why? Well, that's a great question. There's so much amazingness that comes out of it. Number one is more joy. So whether it's a matter of having more fun in life or simply creating more joy in the moments of your day-to-day life, that's beautiful.

Starting point is 00:32:55 It's an idea of seeing your impact on others, seeing your impact in the world. I could be having a crummy day, but if I'm able to get somebody to smile simply by smiling at them first, that's pretty remarkable. In that moment, I feel like I do have an impact. One of my favorite quotes is actually, to the world, you may be one person, but to one person, you may be the world. And it's just realizing I'm not invisible. I can have an impact. Beyond that, though, I mean, if we really do take it the step of like, okay, how do you expand on connecting with strangers? And now take it to, well, what about

Starting point is 00:33:30 how it could come back to me? Well, every romantic relationship you've probably had started with a stranger. Job interviews start with a stranger. Going to a new school or a new employment, a place of employment starts with strangers. And going down the street to the gas station where who knows who you'll meet. Some of my best friends today I've met at strangers out and about in the world. And then I determine based on my own connections with them, do they feel in natural and organic alignment with me? And from there I can determine, am I going to connect with them to foster more lasting relationships. And so I wonder why it is that some people seem to be so good at this and other people seem to struggle so much. You know, I think a lot of times we don't realize how often our fears get in the way and so much of it boils down to mindset, Michael. So I'm

Starting point is 00:34:20 thinking to myself, you know, often people will say, well, I'm not afraid of strangers. I just have enough friends in my life. Or, you know, I people will say, well, I'm not afraid of strangers. I just have enough friends in my life. Or, you know, I just don't like networking events or I just don't like fill in the blank. But those I don't want us are another way of looking at fear and resistance or just a discomfort where we are choosing not to step into an area that could actually serve to really change our lives. And so if your mindset is such that, well, what's the point in going, I'm not going to meet anybody anyway, or everywhere I go,

Starting point is 00:34:51 I just run into negative people or people that aren't interested in interacting, I would argue, yeah, that there's this concept of mirroring. And I do truly believe that the people we consistently run into serve as mirrors in our lives. Because if you look for the good, you're going to see it. And if you look for the bad, you're going to see it. And so as you start to interact with strangers with the positive mindset of, this is an adventure. I'm just simply going to seek curiosity and see what's out there. See who can I put a smile on today. And you start to recognize your impact on others. And you start to recognize that you're actually spreading fun and spreading cheer and giggling with people and bantering with people. You start to truly see the world very differently. And that

Starting point is 00:35:35 really reinforces itself. To me, the world, airports, traveling are my playground because I meet so many amazing people by simply kind of arresting that prejudgment. It doesn't matter how old they are. It doesn't matter how they're dressed. I'm still going to try to interact with them if they're within an arm's length and I'm going to try to put a smile on their face. And if nothing comes of it, then I detach with a sense of love. I detach with a sense of, you know what, maybe they're just having a bad day or maybe they just didn't feel like talking to me. It doesn't have to be about me. And it certainly does not have to mean that they're not a nice person. And often when we come across resistance, it's too

Starting point is 00:36:12 easy to blame or judge as a way of feeling more confident or safe or secure. And I try my best to say, let's not do that. Let's simply detach with kindness. You know, what's interesting to me is how people often complain that, you know, they're never in places to meet anybody, that it's hard to meet people, that the people I meet, or I never get to meet anybody new. And as you say, well, if you ever set foot in an airport, there's a lot of people there. There's a lot of people at the coffee shop. There's a lot of people potentially everywhere that you could talk to. I wonder when people say that, like what they want them to, they want to meet people who are holding up a sign that says, please talk to me.

Starting point is 00:37:00 I mean, what are they waiting for when they say, oh, gee, I never go anywhere where I get to meet anybody? They're everywhere. Absolutely. That's a great question. I think they're waiting for, and I don't even think people wait, excuse me, consciously, but I think we're often waiting for a disarming signal, something that says that they are safe to be approached, or more often than not, I think people are waiting for somebody else to make the first move. We often think of making the first move in the romance realm or flirting or dating, but the reality is even in just general life for moments of interaction, we often wait for someone else to go first. And I've truly created in my life over

Starting point is 00:37:41 the last few years around this idea of let me go first and let me simply see if by changing my sense of approachability, by changing the way that I exude warmth, does that allow somebody else to let their defenses down and to welcome that embrace? And I don't mean a physical embrace, but just an emotional holding of space and banter and play. And so I think often that's what folks are waiting for. And there's, I often talk about, and I won't spell this out, but the acronym for RBF, I'm sure your audience either knows it or probably can Google it and recognize what I'm talking about. But resting facial expressions are so commonly guarded and reserved. And I'm sorry, you can see that across a room. I could literally be in a room

Starting point is 00:38:25 of 500 people and scan the room. And often people think that people are not watching them or if they're on the other side of the room and they're kind of closed off that that's not going to be noticed. But the truth is your facial expressions, your eye contact, whether or not you're smiling may impact whether somebody takes the chance at walking across that room to say hello and to initiate that interaction if they don't know that it's going to be well received. Because nobody wants to be rejected, even if it's just in a moment in time. Who hasn't been in a situation like at a party or something, and you see somebody by themselves, and you think, well, I could go talk to them, but then I think, well, maybe they don't want to be bothered.

Starting point is 00:39:05 Well, why would they come to a party if they don't want to be bothered? That's why people go to parties is to talk to people. Exactly, or to be talked to. And maybe just getting to that party was the challenge for them. Maybe they're an introvert. Maybe, who knows, maybe it's the first day that they've stepped out after losing a partner of so many years and they're finally out. And that was really scary for them. What if every one of us committed to being the kind person that sees them across the room? And instead of thinking,

Starting point is 00:39:35 why is that weird person just standing there by themselves decided, you know what, I'm going to go say hello and introduce myself and just walked up and said, hi there, what brought you here this evening? And it's that notion of instead of focusing on he, she, they, what can I do differently to create a memorable moment here? I guess there's always that, there is that fear of that someone will say, you know, no, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to, but how often does that ever happen where you approach somebody at a social event where people are supposed to be social and you talk to somebody? How often do you ever get rejected? I mean, people don't usually just out and out reject.

Starting point is 00:40:15 Even if they don't want to talk to you, they'll find some polite way to excuse themselves or whatever. It's never that, oh, go away kind of reaction. Absolutely. Absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more. It is so few and far between, except unfortunately, our fears are projected and they're so emotionally charged that we almost magnify them. But to your point, it doesn't happen very often. And quite frankly, I would argue back to the do it scared, do it ugly, do it often. Do it ugly simply means make a fool of yourself and let that be part of the growth process.

Starting point is 00:40:45 I heard a quote the other day that said something like the high achievers fail more times than the average person even tries. And so part of the growth process to overcoming our resistances, overcoming our discomforts and fears is to simply keep doing it until you develop that sense of mastery and comfort.

Starting point is 00:41:02 It's interesting that I think almost everybody has a story about a friend that they have where the story, the weird story is how they met. That, you know, if you don't put yourself out there in situations, you won't meet people. And sometimes the people that you meet in these strange and unusual places turn out to be good friends. Absolutely. It's so interesting. The timing of our call just this morning was the birthday of a dear friend of mine. And I did this big blast on social media wishing her a happy birthday, reflecting on how we met. We met about three years ago. She was there on a date with her partner sitting at the restaurant bar. I was just waiting for a cooking class to start next door. And so as soon as her boyfriend got up, I looked over at her and I just said, you just have the most wonderful energy about you. And she said, oh my gosh, me too. And we

Starting point is 00:41:53 ended up connecting and here we are three years later. And I'm posting this gallery of like 15 photos that are just a portion of all the memories she and I have shared over three years that all began with the words, you have the most wonderful energy. And I tell people, don't say it if you don't mean it, but truly think of something positive to say about every single person around you. And why don't we share that more often? There's so many times I think lovely things, and then there's that fear of like, oh gosh, should I say it? I don't want the person to think I'm weird. And just by virtue of having done the work that I do, I challenge myself to say it every time. And I'm disappointed in myself when I miss that opportunity, because truly it's the idea of simply

Starting point is 00:42:32 creating a kinder world around us. Well, how many times has anybody had someone come up and say something nice and you think it feels good when people compliment you or compliment what you're wearing. It's like, oh, thanks for noticing. I mean, it's never a negative. It's almost, I mean, unless it's ridiculous, it's never a negative. And the only times I would suggest caution are when it's delivered in a sarcastic way. I think often in our society, sarcasm has come to be seen as this virtue. And I disagree. I think sarcasm is so biting and can be so divisive. So that would be the only time

Starting point is 00:43:11 that I suggest steering away from delivery in that sense. But I agree with you. I mean, positivity, I had a, during one of my presentations, a young lady asked me, well, what if I can't think of anything positive to say? Because often in my events, I like to rotate and say, let's do a compliment cycle, or let's just everybody think of anything positive to say? Because often in my events, I like to rotate and say, let's do a compliment cycle or let's just everybody think of something nice to say about the person, you know, another person at the event. And so when someone says to me,

Starting point is 00:43:32 what if I can't think of anything? I say, then you're not trying hard enough because everybody has something positive that you can see about them. So what lens are you using to look at the world around you? Because I think I see a very different world. Well, it's really kind of just opening up yourself to the possibilities and rather than finding reasons not to, try to find reasons to.

Starting point is 00:43:55 Absolutely. And I think so much of the time we're thinking, well, I could talk to that person, but it's not worth it. I mean, you're always looking for a reason to walk away rather than trying to find a reason to step forward and speak up. You know, and I think part of that also comes from this sense of we also don't always have faith in ourselves to keep good boundaries. I can imagine, you know, hearing folks respond to that and say,

Starting point is 00:44:24 well, I don't want to get stuck or trapped in a conversation. I've heard that before. And my thought is, well, then let's work on your boundaries. Where is it difficult for you to say, thank you so much for our time. I actually have to step away to the restroom or I've had a lovely time talking with you. I hope you have a great evening and just stepping away and trusting yourself to be able to, I think there's another saying that says, say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it mean. If you're done with the conversation, respectfully separate. And that's okay too, but trust yourself to have the skill to walk away. Yeah. Well, it's always hard. It's always hard on an airplane though. That is true. Yes.

Starting point is 00:45:01 You're stuck there for hours. And if you start a conversation and then it goes south and now you're there for three hours going, oh, my God. I haven't had that experience, but I understand where you're coming from for sure. I think that's right. There's always that worry that what if this person starts talking and then never shuts up? Oh, my God. And I like the person that starts talking and never shuts up. But I hear you. I think that would simply be the time where it's, you know, I've so enjoyed chatting with you.

Starting point is 00:45:35 I do have some work I've got to get done. So if you don't mind, I'm going to plop my little earbuds in. But I look forward to checking back with you when we're landing and to just find that loop-de-loop. Yeah, see, you're good at this. find that loop-de-loop. Yeah. See, you're good at this, but... I am. I'll take that. Yeah. But a lot of people would just go, oh, you know. Well, and so what they do would be not to start the conversation in the first place for fear of having that, but it probably doesn't happen that often. That person probably isn't going to be that chatterbox that's going to talk for the

Starting point is 00:46:04 next three hours non-stop. Exactly. I know every situation is different, but in terms of what to say that's relatively easy and open-ended and can start a conversation, like what are the kinds of things to open it up? Is it to compliment what somebody's wearing? I mean, what's the best way to do it? So I think that there are, it depends, of course, on where you are. Sometimes you can use settings specific things. So if you're at a certain event, it's the cliche, what brought you here? How did you find out about this? But beyond that, I like to choose colors is a really smart thing to start with any sort of a bright color. So especially if you're somebody that wants to engage and invite more conversation into your world, wear bright reds. But red actually has been shown to increase metabolism,

Starting point is 00:46:50 energy. When we feel energy, it just kind of like increases everything within our systems. It's been shown to enhance sex drive. It can be a very powerful color. It's also very easy to complement. Bright oranges, a sea blue, a color that really stands out from the crowd would be a really great option. And it tends to just be a very safe option as well for starting off a conversation. Shoes, socks, ties, hats, sunglasses with like a colorful rim or corrective eyewear with a colorful rim. Anything that's got a little bit of pizzazz

Starting point is 00:47:25 to it or playfulness to it really, really can help tremendously. So whether you're wearing it or whether you look around to see who around you happens to have that, that's a really easy one to compliment. And then add a question. Because if you just compliment, then it can land flat. Hey, I love that color on you. Oh, thanks. I love that color on you. Who, who bought that for you? Or is that a gift or where did you get that? Or, you know, is that your favorite color? And then just see how the person responds to you. Now I will also, however, say sometimes if you're going to compliment, I also suggest don't hover. And so if you're going to compliment, keep going. So say, you know, that's a great color on you and then keep walking because you don't want to make that person feel awkward or like your compliment was manipulative.

Starting point is 00:48:09 So I'll often say compliment for connection, not to get it for manipulation. In other words, getting an outcome or having it serve you in some way. So some final thoughts for people who have listened to you for the last 20 minutes and thought, yeah, yeah, I like this. I could do this. Some final words of encouragement. I think really more than anything is it's just remembering. So first of all, walk in with your best self. I like to present this concept of when you're entering a threshold, whether it's a door or a hallway, whatever it happens to be into an event or into a new setting, you put that smile on your face. Think of something positive. There's an acronym in the recovery world that's HALT, H-A-L-T, hunger, angry, lonely, tired. If you are feeling

Starting point is 00:48:55 any of those four things, you're more likely to have a negative mindset. You are more likely to look externally rather than internally. And instead, I encourage people to really think about from your own perspective, what can I do to present my best self? Because if I present as warm, engaging, kind, then I am more likely to attract that and to bring that out in the people around me. Well, especially around the holidays, I think a lot of people could use this advice and encouragement that, you know, it is possible that people do want to connect and other people would welcome your approach and be available. And it's nice to hear it from somebody who's researched it and really lived this. My guest has been psychologist Dr. Alicia Nottiman. She is author of the book, Don't Be a Stranger,

Starting point is 00:49:46 Creating Connections and Memorable First Impressions in Everyday Life. And if you want to read the book, there is a link to it at Amazon in the show notes. So how much do you know about Mrs. Claus? You don't really hear much about Santa's wife. So who is Mrs. Claus? Where did she come from? Well, the first mention of Mrs. Claus is in a short story from 1849 called A Christmas Legend, written by a Philadelphia-based missionary. After that, she appears in several stories and books, but her role is pretty vague. She does some baking, and she apparently helps out in toy production, and she oversees the elves to some extent, and in one story, she appears to have

Starting point is 00:50:33 some say on who gets on or off the naughty list. Mrs. Claus has been referred to as Mother Christmas, and some have theorized that her maiden name is Merry Christmas. But no one really knows how she and Santa got together, or how long they've been married, or where she comes from. She is a vague and somewhat mysterious character, and perhaps that's just the way she likes it. But no doubt Mrs. Claus is essential to Santa and to Christmas. And that is something you should know. We've been getting some very nice reviews on Apple Podcasts. Thank you very much if you're one of the people who left one of those beautiful five-star reviews.

Starting point is 00:51:21 And if you haven't or would like to leave another, I encourage you to do so. Please leave a rating and review and hopefully make it a five-star one. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. We're serving up for hilarious shows every week designed to entertain and engage and, you know, possibly enrage you. And don't blame me. We dive deep into listeners' questions, offering advice that's funny, relatable, and real. Whether you're dealing with relationship drama or you just need a friend's perspective, we've got you. Then switch gears with But Am I Wrong?, which is for listeners who didn't take our advice and want to know if they are the villains in the situation. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events and present situations that we might even be wrong in our lives. Spoiler alert, we are actually quite literally never wrong.

Starting point is 00:52:12 But wait, there's more. Check out See You Next Tuesday, where we reveal the juicy results from our listener polls from But Am I Wrong? And don't miss Fisting Friday, where we catch up, chat about pop culture, TV and movies. It's the perfect way to kick off your weekend. So if you're looking for a podcast that feels like a chat with your besties, listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a co-founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce.

Starting point is 00:52:48 That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network called The Search for the Silver Lightning, a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. During her journey, Isla meets new friends, including King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table, and learns valuable life lessons with every quest, sword fight, and dragon ride. Positive and uplifting stories remind us all about the importance of kindness, friendship, honesty, and positivity. Join me and an all-star cast of actors, including Liam Neeson, Emily Blunt, Kristen Bell, Chris Hemsworth, among many others, in welcoming the Search for the Silver Lining podcast to the Go Kid Go Network by listening today.

Starting point is 00:53:27 Look for the Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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