Something You Should Know - SYSK Choice: How to Change a Habit & How to Be More Courageous

Episode Date: June 13, 2020

You can manipulate your brain to change your mood. How? Biofeedback. For example, when you are happy you smile. But it also works in reverse – if you smile, that makes you happy. And there are other ways I’ll discuss that you can improve your mood by doing very simple things. It’s fascinating. https://www.bakadesuyo.com/2015/12/make-you-happy-3/ Then, have you ever wanted to create a new habit or break an old one? Charles Duhigg author of the book, The Power of Habit (http://amzn.to/2yKznVb) joins me to discuss the science of habits. He offers some great techniques to start new habits and explains why you should never really try to “break” a habit. There is something else you should do instead. If you want to improve any relationship, there are 2 little things that can make all the difference. Listen to this advice from John Gottman, one of the best-known experts in the field of relationship psychology, and it could transform your relationship forever. http://www.businessinsider.com/lasting-relationships-rely-on-2-traits-2014-11 Plus, do you ever wish you were more courageous? Are there things you haven’t done because you lacked the courage to do them? Speaker and consultant Bill Treasurer author of the book Courage Goes to Work, (http://amzn.to/2CjBotT) will help you realize you probably have more courage than you think and how to become more courageous in spite of the fear you face. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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You can now make the first move or not. With opening moves, you simply choose a question to be automatically sent to your matches. Then sit back and let your matches start the chat. Download Bumble and try it for yourself. Today on Something You Should Know, when you're happy, you smile. But it also works the other way around. I'll explain how. Then, if you want to change or start a new habit, you first have to understand

what a habit is. So a habit is a decision that you made at some point that you stop making but that your brain continues acting on. And there's been studies that have shown that 40 to 45% of what we do every single day is in fact a habit. Also two little things you can do that will transform your relationship instantly and how you can be more courageous and understanding the relationship between courage and fear. And in fact, if the presence of fear isn't there, then whatever the bold move that you're attempting to take really isn't courage. You have to have the presence of fear

to experience courage. All this today on Something You Should Know. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more.

A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson, discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Thank you. Advice you can use in your life today. Something you should know with Mike Carruthers.

Hi and welcome. You know, I get a lot of emails, great emails from all over the world. And I got one the other day that was kind of fun. It was someone who said, you know, I love your podcast. I listen to it all the time, but what's going to happen when you run out of things people should know? And fortunately, though, I've checked and we've got a long, long way to go. We start today with biofeedback. You've heard that term before. It's the idea that your brain is always sensing what's happening in your body and it reviews that information to decide how it should feel about the world around you.

You feel happy, your brain detects that, and then you smile. But it works both ways. If you smile, your brain detects that, and it makes you happier. This is according to Alex Korb, who is a researcher in neuroscience and author of the book called The Upward Spiral. So, if you want to boost your mood using biofeedback, here are some things you can do. Listen to music from your happiest time. If you were happiest in college, play music that you loved back then and it will transport you to that happy place and make you feel happier. Smile and wear sunglasses.

When you smile, you feel happier. In fact, research shows that smiling gives the brain as much pleasure as 2,000 bars of chocolate or $25,000. However, if you're in the sun and squinting, your brain thinks you're worried, and that lowers your mood. So when you wear sunglasses, you prevent the squinting, and you feel happier. When you're feeling stressed out or challenged, think about your long-term goals. It gives your brain a sense of control and releases dopamine, which will make you feel better and more motivated.

And make sleep a priority. This is important because depressed people don't sleep well, and people who don't sleep well get depressed, and it becomes a cycle that you don't want to fall into. And that is something you should know. We all have the ability to create a habit, and we can use that ability for good or evil. We can create a good habit, or we can create a bad habit. But why are bad habits so easy to create, while good ones seem to take more effort?

And what's the best way to break a bad habit? Charles Duhigg is an authority on this. His book, The Power of Habit, has become a hugely popular book on every bestseller list you can imagine. Welcome, Charles. Thanks for having me on. So what is a habit? How do you define it? So a habit is a decision that you made at some point that you stop making, but that your brain continues acting on. And there's been studies that have shown that 40 to 45% of what we do every single day is in fact a habit.

So the first time you backed your car out of your driveway, you probably had to think pretty hard about how to do it. You know, look at all the mirrors and keep track of where the garbage cans are. But now when you do it, it just kind of happens automatically. You don't really have to think about it. Or when you in the morning tell your wife or your husband, hey, today I'm going to have a healthy salad for lunch. And you walk into the cafeteria and you just kind of unthinkingly get the same unhealthy sandwich that you get every single day. That's a habit.

Nearly half of what we do is a habit. And they kind of emerge almost without our permission. And some of them are good and some of them are not so good. Well, and actually our ability to create habits is incredibly good. In fact, there's a part of our brain known as the basal ganglia that exists basically to help us create habits. And every animal has some variation on the basal ganglia because if you can't create habits, you really can't succeed as a species. If you have to decide before, you know, every single time you see something on the ground, whether it's a piece of food or not, if you have to make choices about how to walk in the morning, that would be so incredibly cognitively overtaxing that you'd never get a chance to invent fire or aircraft carriers.

And so habits are the things that allow us and every other species to succeed. But the thing is that it's such a great talent that it can pop up without our permission. The habits can emerge without us kind of being conscious of them. And that's why I wrote The Power of Habit, is to help people understand how to take control of what's going on inside our brains, how to shape their habits so that they're the ones that they choose rather than the ones that just happen to them. So a habit is basically a decision you make over and over again so that it gets to the point where it kind of takes, it goes on autopilot. That's exactly right.

That's exactly right. And what's interesting is that oftentimes you don't even have to make it that many times. Oftentimes, as it kind of happens without you, you make the decision once, and then it just happens again and again and again. And at the core of this is our understanding of how habits work. So every habit has three components. There's a cue, which is like a trigger for an automatic behavior to begin. And then there's a routine, which is the behavior itself. And then finally, there's a reward.

And that reward is how our brain learns to remember that chunk of behavior for the future. And it's interesting and important to realize that because if you can diagnose the cues and the rewards in your own life, then you can figure out what your habits are, and more importantly, how to change them. Well, you said that habits are relatively easy to create, but why are they so difficult to habit change, which says that if you want to get rid of a habit, don't try and extinguish it. Instead, try and change it. Because once that neural pathway is associated with a cue, routine, reward, it's going to live in your brain for years or decades. So instead of saying, like, I want to break this habit, I want to extinguish it, what we ought to say is I want to change this habit. I want to figure out what the cue and the reward is that's driving this behavior and then find some

new behavior that corresponds to the old cue, that delivers something similar to the old reward, and instead let that kind of flourish in my life. So give me an example of a habit and how you would change it. So exercise is actually one of the habits that people most frequently say that they wish that they could establish in their life. And there was actually a big experiment that was done by a German healthcare company a number of years ago, where they took a bunch of people into a room and they told them, you know, everyone should exercise more and kind of went on at length about why that was important.

And then they took a small portion of the people in that room and they took them off into another room and they gave them an additional lecture. And they said, they explained how that, how the habit loop works, this idea of cues and routines and rewards. And they said, here's what we want you to do. We want you to choose a cue, like put your running shoes next to your bed. So you see them when you wake up first thing in the morning, or, or, or maybe, um, you know, always plan on meeting your your friend Dave at the gym on Wednesday night. And when you're done exercising, right away, give yourself a small piece of chocolate. Now, this is kind of counterintuitive because most of us, we'll go and we'll exercise and we wait like 45 minutes before we eat chocolate because we like to pretend like they're not

related to each other. But what the German researchers figured was that if they could get people to choose a cue and give themselves a reward right away, that it would be easier for their brain to kind of latch on to that behavior, to that habit loop and make it more automatic. Nine months later, they find everyone in that room and they find that the people who they had gotten that additional lecture, they're actually exercising at a much higher rate than everyone else. And the lesson there is that basically, you can go ahead and figure out how to build habits, you could start an exercise habit, by identifying these cues and rewards by giving themselves by giving those to yourself very, very explicitly, because in doing so, that's how you end up building a habit. Our topic is habits, and I'm speaking with one of the true authorities on the subject,

Charles Duhigg, who is author of the book, The Power of Habit. Hi, this is Rob Benedict. And I am Richard Spate. We were both on a little show you might know called Supernatural. It had a pretty good run. 15 seasons, 327 episodes. And though we have seen of course every episode many times, we figured, hey, now that we're wrapped,

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The note from Kripke was, he's great, we love him, but we're looking for like a really intelligent Duchovny type. With 15 seasons to explore, it's going to be the road trip of several lifetimes. So please join us and subscribe to Supernatural then and now. me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like something you should know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation.

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podcasts. So Charles, it's one thing, as you were talking about a moment ago, it's one thing to create a habit, to start doing something you've never done before and make it a habit. But it's entirely different, I think, to get rid of or alter or change a habit that you have that you don't like. If you're overweight because you eat too much or you smoke cigarettes, to stop doing something is different. And you said at the beginning that you don't want to eliminate a habit, you want to change it. Well, in that case, if you want to change a habit, you have to figure out what are the cues and the rewards that already exist? And how do I take advantage of those to come up with something new? So, for instance, I had this habit when I started writing this book that I would get

up every afternoon and go eat a cookie in the cafeteria. And I actually put a little note on my computer monitor that said, no more cookies. And somehow, every afternoon, I'd managed to ignore that note and go up to the cafeteria and get a cookie. And so when I was talking to these researchers, I would ask them, how do I change this habit? How do I break this habit? And they would say, well, the key isn't to break the habit. The key is to change the habit. And they said, what's the cue? And all cues fall into usually one of five categories. It's usually a particular time of day, or it's a certain location, or it's a particular emotion, the presence of certain other people, or a

preceding behavior that's become kind of ritualized. And so every day, what I started doing is when I felt the urge to go get a cookie, I would write down those five things. Where am I? What time of day is it? Who's around me? And I figured out pretty quickly, it was always between like 315 and 345 that this urge hit to go eat a cookie. So it's clearly like a time of day. That's the cue. Then I had to figure out what the reward is. And when I talked to the researchers and I said, well, what's the reward for the cookie? I would say, well, the cookies, right? Because they're pretty tasty. And they would say, no, no, no, no, no. Rewards are much more complicated than that. A cookie is like a little bundle of like 12 or 15 rewards all in one tasty little package. You got to figure out,

like, for instance, is it that you're hungry, in which case the reward is satisfying that hunger, in which case having an apple should work just as well as a cookie. Or is it that you need something to, the reward is relief from boredom, that you need something to kind of break up the day. In which case, just getting up and taking like a walk around the block should do the trick. Or is it that the cookie, the sugar in the cookie is providing you with a burst of energy, in which case getting a coffee should be just as effective. And so for about a week, I experimented, right? Like one day I'd take a walk around the block. One day I'd go get a cup of coffee. And what I figured out pretty quickly was that the reason why I was getting that cookie is because whenever I went up to the cafeteria to

get the cookie, I would see some friends and I'd usually sit down and like chat with them for, you know, 15 or 20 minutes. And that's what was driving the habit. That's the reward is that it was offering me a social reward. And so once I figured driving the habit. That's the reward is that it was offering me a social reward. And so once I figured that out, once I knew what the cue was and I knew what the reward was, I could change the habit. So now every day at about 3.30, I stand up from my desk and I look around for someone to go gossip with. And I walk over to their desk and we gossip for 15 or 20 minutes. And then I go back to my desk and the cookie urge is totally gone. But the only reason I was able to do that was because I actually tried to figure out

what was the cue and the reward that was driving this. Can I find a new behavior that corresponds to the old cue and the old reward? So, Charles, how long do you have to do the new behavior, the new thing? How many times do you have to do it before it becomes automatic and kind of takes over? Well, it differs from person to person and behavior to behavior. So like if you want to start an exercise habit, it might take a little while. If you want to start a habit involving like eating chocolate ice cream, probably would

happen pretty quickly. But the point is that once you figure it out, it's going to get easier and easier each time, right? And you might not notice at first that it's getting easier. It might sort of feel like you got to push yourself to get out in the morning and put on those running shoes that are next to your bed and go for a run and give yourself a piece of chocolate. But at some point, your brain is going to kind of take over and you're just going to be out running and realize, oh, that wasn't hard at all. And that's kind of how habits work.

They just kind of emerge on their own. Is getting up at the same time every morning a habit? And I don't mean with an alarm clock. I mean, I wake up every morning about 6.45. I always do. I always do. And is that a habit I've created, or is that something else? I mean, probably it's a habit. We would have to figure out kind of what the reward is there and

what the cue is. You probably have like an internal clock that's relatively accurate. There might also be, you know, certain things in your environment that consistently help trigger waking up. And, you know, the reward would be, well, do you feel like, do you feel well rested? Do you feel like to be up early, does that give you a sense of kind of accomplishment later in the day? Those are all sort of important questions to ask to figure out what is the thing that's driving that behavior. Does deliberately creating good habits in your life make it easier to create other ones, or is each one its own individual task to accomplish? There's a thing known as keystone habits.

So one of the things that we know is that some habits seem to matter more than others. Some habits, when they start to change, they seem to set off this chain reaction that makes it easier for other habits to change. So exercise is a good example. For many people, when they start exercising habitually, it changes their eating habits, right? On the day that they go for a run, it's easier for them to eat a salad in the cafeteria rather than a sandwich. But what's interesting is that these two researchers named Oten and Chang in Australia, who looked at other changes that happen when we start exercising habitually, they found that people who start exercising habitually, they tend to procrastinate less at their job. They do their dishes earlier in the day. They use their credit cards less

frequently. And that's because for many people, exercise is this keystone habit that sets off this chain reaction that makes other habits more pliable or more flexible. And so identifying and focusing on those, that sort of has these outsized dividends. Yeah, I've heard things like when people get rid of the junk in their house and shed all their junk, they also tend to lose weight. Is that kind of what you're talking about? Yeah, I think that that could definitely be part of it. It's that once we start this chain reaction going,

that it tends to change our self-perception somehow. There's an interesting thing known as revealed preferences, that we tend to figure out who we are and how we ought to behave by looking at what we've done in the past, right? Not only what we believe about ourselves, but actually looking for evidence, like, you know, the, am I the type of person who goes for a run in the morning? And, and the more that we do something positive, the more it almost subconsciously convinces us that we're the kind of person that continue doing positive things. That's why once you get on like a healthy habit kick, it's so much easier to improve other parts of your life as well.

But isn't it tougher if you decide, okay, I'm going to exercise more, and I'm going to eat healthy, and I'm going to quit smoking? When you take all of that on, doesn't that become much too hard of a burden to handle? Well, yeah. So one of the things that all the research tells us is that you that become much too hard of a burden to handle? Well, yeah. So one of the things that all the research tells us is that you should focus on one thing at a time, right? That what the right thing to do is to say, not I'm going to do all three of those, but to choose one of them. And to choose the one that you think is going to influence your self-image to yourself. So of the things you just mentioned, if you say like, look, I'm going to start, I'm going to start exercising. Now for people like me who, you know, there was a number of years, I didn't play any sports in high school. So for people like me, if I say I'm going to start

exercising, that actually like can have a huge impact on my self-image. Like, like it's kind of, you know, it seems irrationally scary to start exercising at first. You don't know where to go jogging or what to wear. But once you decide, okay, I'm just going to go out and I'm going to go around the block once. I'm going to just wear these workout clothes I've got. Once you start doing that, you start thinking of yourself as the type of person who exercises. And that actually makes it easier and easier and easier to continue doing so. Well, I remember hearing something about, you know, it takes what, 30 repetitions to create a habit or something like that. Is that kind of a random number that sounds like that? Yeah, there's no science behind it. It's usually 21 days or something like that.

Unfortunately, if you want to create a habit that involves like eating chocolate ice cream, you can probably do that pretty quickly. If you want to create a habit that involves eating chocolate ice cream, you can probably do that pretty quickly. If you want to create a habit that involves exercise, it might take a little bit longer. But as long as you have these very stable cues, routines, and rewards, the more and more you do something, the easier and easier it's going to get. So what is the difference between a habit and an addiction? Are they basically two sides of the same coin? So the American Academy of Addiction professionals, they actually consider addiction to be a habit dysfunction, right? There's some kinds of addictions that have a neurochemical or a

biochemical aspect. Take smoking, for instance. So nicotine is addictive, but about 100 hours after your last cigarette, once the nicotine is out of your blood system, you're not actually addicted to nicotine anymore. But we know people who, everyone knows someone who craves a cigarette a year or two years or a decade after they quit. If you crave a cigarette a decade after you give them up, that's not because it's a physical addiction. That's because it's a habit dysfunction, right? You still have that cigarette habit. But habits and addictions, they live in the same part of our brain. It's not because it's a physical addiction. That's because it's a habit dysfunction, right? You still have that cigarette habit. But habits and addictions, they live in the same part of our brain.

And so as a result, it can feel very, very similar. It does seem that in some ways our habits can control parts of our lives. So it's good to know that we have some control over them and that, in fact, we can change them. Charles Duhigg has been my guest. He's the author of the book, The Power of Habit, a big, big bestseller. And there's a link to his book on Amazon in the show notes. Hey, everyone, join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa Demonts, for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? Each week, we deliver four fun-filled shows. In Don't Blame Me, we tackle our listeners' dilemmas with hilariously honest advice. Then we have But Am I Wrong?, which is for the listeners that didn't take our advice.

Plus, we share our hot takes on current events. Then tune in to see you next Tuesday for our Lister poll results from But Am I Wrong? And finally, wrap up your week with Fisting Friday, where we catch up and talk all things pop culture. Listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. Do you love Disney? Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. There is nothing we don't cover.

We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney-themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed, but you definitely need in your life. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. Have you ever done anything really courageous? Or have you ever wished you had more courage, took more risks, wondered how your life might be different if you were more courageous? Well, Bill Treasurer is somebody who knows a lot about courage. Bill is a speaker, consultant, and author of several books, including the book Courage Goes to Work,

How to Build Backbones, Boost Performance, and Get Results. Hi, Bill. Welcome. Mike, it's so great to talk to you again. So how do you define courage? I think when we think of courageous people, we think of, you know, war heroes, but courage is much more than that. You're right. War heroes have courage, and astronauts have courage, and firefighters have courage. But so does a kid who steals a car at 17 years old and goes for a joyride. So courage can be applied or misapplied.

It can be adaptive or maladaptive. It can be benevolent or malevolent. So courage is acting on what is right, despite being afraid or uncomfortable when facing situations of pain, intimidation, or even opportunity. The trick is that it acts despite being afraid. So normally when we have some fearful situation that we're facing, and sometimes appropriately so, we run away from it. Or we'll experience fight, flight, or freeze, where we choke in our performance. But the hallmark of courage is that we intentionally and purposefully engage with the thing that we're afraid of. All the better if you can bring some morality to it by acting on what is right instead of what is wrong. Well, I think that a lot of people look at courageous people as having no fear, that

they can do things that I can't because fear stops me and it doesn't stop them. You know, it's interesting. There's a bumper sticker, right? You'll see it on people's trucks and they'll say, no fear, no fear. Like somehow that's a good thing. I always, when I see that bumper sticker, I go, yeah, no brains. You know, fear is a necessary thing. And the truth about courage, and this is kind of interesting, man, when you are in a courageous moment, you're not void of fear. You're full of fear, but you're acting despite the fact that you are

afraid. So courage is not fearlessness. Courage is fearfulness, but doing the thing that you're acting despite the fact that you are afraid. So courage is not fearlessness. Courage is fearfulness, but doing the thing that you're afraid of despite being afraid. The fear you feel when you're thinking of doing something courageous, might it not be serving a real purpose that maybe, although this seems courageous, might also not just be physically dangerous, but might be a really stupid thing to do, but in the moment you think it's courageous. From your earliest impulses as a kid, you learn self-preservation. I mean, it is wired into your DNA.

You need that. And it's like, it comes from the deepest part of our human psyche that goes probably all back, all the way back to, you know, humans crawling out of the mud. We have been hardwired with this idea of self-preservation. And fear serves that purpose. So that when you see the snake, you run from the snake so you don't get bitten by the snake, so you get to stay alive. So you need the fear button. The challenge is that when fear dictates all of your behavior or paralyzes you or keeps you from, you know, sort of perceptional fear that becomes irrational and it immobilizes you, now that fear is actually stunting your growth and can inhibit your own development.

So it's challenging because it means you have to, on the one hand, we have to face fear for the duration of our life. And many times it's appropriate because it's self-preservation. On the other hand, we all know that fear can hold us back as a human being and limit our potential. And we have this constant striving. In fact, you know, you could say that there's a very strong, and I would argue maybe a healthy relationship between fear and courage. And in fact, if the presence of fear isn't there, then whatever the bold move that you're attempting to take really isn't courage. You have to have the presence of courage to experience, the presence of fear to experience courage. So it's, it may not be clear cut,

but I do believe that the human experience requires, as a human being, you have to apply your courage in fearful situations if you want to get the, get through the human experience in a successful way and to grow and develop as a human being. It seems that confidence plays a big part in this, that the more confident you are, the more courageous you can be. You know, a firefighter running into a burning building, well, he's been trained as to what to do when he gets in there. If I were to run into a burning building, I wouldn't know what to do. So it's a lot more fearful for me to run into a burning building than someone who's been trained to do it. So it does seem confidence is a real important element here. You know, really every single human

being has demonstrated courage, just as every human being has experienced fear. And the trick is, where do you feel confident? Like you may do something that for you is just a thing. It's like, that's not hard for me because I've got a lot of confidence with that space. But other people looking at you do the thing might be like, oh my God, I can't believe how much courage do they have. Wow, they did that thing. But for you, it wasn't a big thing because for you, you've got a lot of confidence in that space.

But if there's an area with which you have a lot of fear and you avoid, then those same people would be looking at you going, wow, what's wrong with that person? Why are they avoiding the thing? I do that thing every day and it's easy for me. So this idea of relativism, you know, that we judge our risks according to our fears. And what's fearful for you may be folly for me. I have a brother who is a retired special agent in the DEA. And that guy, you know, used to carry a gun on his ankle when he would go to work.

And he runs and guns in the streets of Charleston, South Carolina. He started his beat up in Newark, New Jersey. The guy's a macho guy. The guy has a lot of courage in that area of his life. But he has a hard time telling me and our two sisters he loves us because that's where he feels gushy. So we tend to avoid risks in areas where we feel vulnerable, and we tend to pursue risks in areas where we feel vulnerable, and we tend to pursue risks in areas where we

feel confident. And every single human being has both of those dimensions. So it might seem that you're better off sticking with what you're good at, but if you do that, then how do you grow in other areas? Well, you know, what I would say is a lot of times when we're facing a fear, our first thought is, how do I reduce this fear? Which is really sort of the wrong approach, because the fear is, what you want to do is be strong enough to withstand that fear. There's a great psychologist, Dr. Michael After, he calls this the protective frame. He says, you can think of it like, imagine that you went to a zoo, and you paid to see the great Siberian tiger, and you go there, and there's the tiger, but there's no cage.

You'd run like hell, and you should. But what if you went to that same zoo and saw a cage, and there was no tiger? You'd want your money back. So what Dr. After says is you need both. You need the tiger, which is the metaphor for your fear, and you want to make sure that it's a big tiger. You paid to see that tiger. But you need a strong cage, what things that build your confidence in the face of the tiger. So, for example, if you found out you were going to have to give a presentation to your boss's boss, and you had all sorts of fear about doing this, instead of thinking, oh, how am I going to stop being afraid? I wish I wasn't so afraid. What do I do about this fear?

That's like fear of fear. That's paranoia. He says what you ought to do is talk to people who have given presentations before. Practice with your stuffed animals first. Maybe go and speak to a church group where there's a little less consequence for failure. Like, do the legwork. Practice, practice, practice. Do the legwork in preparation. And it's not that you will reduce the fear so much. You will increase your confidence. And that's what you should do when the fear so much, you will increase your confidence. And that's what you should do when you're facing a fear, is work on taking the actions that will increase your confidence, and your fear will become less relevant. But there are some things people want to do where you can't really practice, like you want to confront somebody at work, or

you know, you want to do something much quicker than, you know, well, let me spend the next month practicing. Yeah, I guess I would say that in that instance, it will help to have had a regimen of doing smaller, more courageous things over time. Because you'll come to trust your instinct. You'll come to know, you know, I've crossed these thresholds before in other ways and in other situations. And so now, yes, I've got this schoolyard bully in front of me or I've got this work bully in front of me, but I've confronted other bullying situations in the past. Or even if I haven't, I've confronted fearful situations in the past. And look, I'm still alive. So you have to start to rely on your accumulated history.

We all cross these small thresholds of fear literally thousands of times in our life, and yet when we get to a new threshold, it always feels so unique and new to us, when in fact we have a lot of our own experience to draw on of the courageous things that we've done in encountering fear in the past. So at some point, you've got to sort of like rely and trust your instincts. When you say that people who are courageous have fear, do they have fear and then they do it anyway? But often when we're fearful, when we're acting out of fear, we get that kind of, I don't know what it is, it's that stress response where we get that tunnel vision.

We don't, we're not operating on all cylinders. We're kind of in the fight or flight mode. Do people who are courageous, are they able to overcome that, or do they have to deal with the same limitations as the rest of us? You know, that's a good question. And I imagine that there are some people that are better equipped somehow constitutionally when they move into a fearful situation. Even Nelson Mandela, though, talked about how afraid he was many times every day, you know, when he was locked up as a prisoner.

So even people we look to on the world stage, that we think, wow, look at what a giant they are. You know, a good example of this actually is Martin Luther King. He writes, it's his last speech that he's giving. He didn't know it was his last speech. It just so happened the next day he would get assassinated. But that last night he was speaking, he said, tonight I am fearing no man. He was talking about, I may not get to the mountaintop with you. I may not get there with you. But tonight I'm fearing no man. It was interesting to me, the wording on that, tonight, it kind of suggested there's plenty of times that he was fearing man. But you wouldn't have thought it when he was standing at the front lines of the civil rights movement. Of course, he was afraid. But again, this idea of relativism, you can't see it. That's the other thing. It's not always transparent to others. Not everybody gets blotchy skin when they're giving a presentation. They just might have rioting

butterflies, which are invisible to other people. So I'm not sure. Constitutionally, I imagine that people are different in how they experience it. Maybe there are some people that are braver than others, but even that person is going to have some vulnerable place in their life where they lack courage. Everyone has taken a risk and been so glad they did, because look at all the great things that happened. And I think everyone has taken a risk and been so glad they did because look at all the great things that happened. And I think everyone has taken a risk and then later thought, what the hell was I thinking? Why did I do that?

And I'm wondering, is there any kind of test you can give for a potential risk for deciding whether to be courageous or not that will help improve your odds? I think a lot of times what we do is we simply look at it the old-fashioned way and say, hey, you know, what am I going to gain if I do this thing? And what am I going to lose if I don't, you know, if I wipe out doing this thing? And so we pro and con it. But I think it takes more dimension than that. So I suggest people work through five different criterias. And the first one is passion. Is this giving me, you know, does it give me energy to think about taking this risk or does it deplete my energy?

The second one is purpose. Is it connected to some broader purpose or am I taking this because it actually can, you know, move me forward in some way towards my life goals and what I want. The third P is principles. By taking this risk, does it embody a set of values that I have at the core and deepest levels? Am I upholding a principle to take this risk? The fourth one is prerogative. Is it my own prerogative to take this risk or am I being forced to do it because other people are telling me I have to do it? And then finally, the fifth P is profit. What will I stand to get? But it shouldn't be the first thing that you should ask. It shouldn't just be the spoils that you think you're going to get by taking this risk. I think that should be the last piece that you evaluate. You should do the others, the passion, purpose, principles, prerogative, before

you get to profit. And then you will have dimensionalized your calculation and taken the risk in a much more thoughtful way. So I think it will increase your probability of the likelihood of a successful outcome, though it won't guarantee you'll be successful. I think deep down inside, most of us wish we could be more courageous, and now we know how to do that. Bill Treasurer has been my guest. He is a speaker, consultant, and author of several books, including Courage Goes to Work. And there is a link to his book in the show notes for this episode. As I'm sure you're aware, you don't have to look very hard to find relationship advice.

And we've had some of the best relationship experts in the world on this program. But according to psychologist John Gottman, who is regarded as one of the leading authorities on relationships, a good relationship all comes down to two things. Kindness and generosity. That's it. Those couples who express kindness and generosity to each other and do it often have better relationships. Those who don't, don't. Here's something else Gottman discovered. While we've all heard that partners should be there for each other when the going gets rough, it turns out that being there for each other when things go right is actually more important for relationship quality. How

someone responds to a partner's good news can have dramatic consequences for the relationship. On the other hand, contempt is the number one factor that tears couples apart. People who are focused on criticizing their partner miss 50% of the positive things their partners are doing, and they see negativity where there isn't any. Being mean is the death knell of relationships. And that is something you should know. And that's the podcast today. I'm Micah Ruthers. Thanks for listening to Something You Should Know. And that's the podcast today. I'm Micah Ruthers. Thanks for listening to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook,

where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity.

The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot. And someone is watching Ruth. Chinook. Starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Jennifer, a co-founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network called The Search for the Silver Lightning, a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. During her journey, Isla meets new friends, including King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table, and learns valuable life lessons with every quest, sword fight, and dragon ride. Positive and uplifting stories remind us all about the importance of kindness, friendship, honesty, and positivity.

Join me and an all-star cast of actors, including Liam Neeson, Emily Blunt, Kristen Bell, Chris Hemsworth, among many others, in welcoming the Search for the Silver Lining podcast to the Go Kid Go network by listening today. Look for the Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.