Something You Should Know - SYSK Choice: How to Master Memory & The Pitfalls of Performance Addiction

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Starting point is 00:00:17 You can now make the first move or not. With opening moves, you simply choose a question to be automatically sent to your matches. Then sit back and let your matches start the chat. Download Bumble and try it for yourself. Today on Something You Should Know, when you lose weight, where does the fat go? I'll reveal the surprising answer. Then, can you and I together learn a list of 15 random words and commit that list to memory? You will have that list of words committed to memory perfectly, Mike, within just three minutes.

Starting point is 00:00:52 And also the people listening to the podcast will also have it committed to memory. And one of the keys to this is to try to just have fun with it. Plus, some interesting and practical uses for Vaseline you probably didn't know. Then, achievement and success are great, but some people take it too far. They're always comparing and contrasting themselves to other people in terms of how well they look or how well they do or how much money they make. And if that doesn't secure them the love and respect they want, they try to work harder, do more, and eventually it just drives them crazy. All this today on Something You Should Know. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking

Starting point is 00:01:35 to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples. Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster

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Starting point is 00:02:23 just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should know with Mike Carruthers Hello, we start today with a question. I'm almost certain you've wondered about and that is when you lose weight

Starting point is 00:02:54 Where does the fat go? It's a good question and in fact in a survey of a hundred and fifty health professionals including doctors dietitians and personal trainers, they almost all got it wrong. The most common misconception by far was that the fat is converted to energy. The problem with that theory is that it violates the law of conservation of matter, which all chemical reactions must obey. Some respondents thought the fat turned into muscle, which is impossible,

Starting point is 00:03:26 and others assumed it escaped via the colon. Only three out of the 150 health professionals gave the right answer, which means 98% of the health professionals in the survey could not explain how weight loss works. So if the fat is not converted to energy or muscle or comes out as human waste, where does the fat go? Well, the correct answer is that fat is converted to carbon dioxide and water. You exhale the carbon dioxide

Starting point is 00:03:57 and the water mixes into your circulation until it's lost as urine or sweat. If you lose 10 pounds of fat, precisely 8.4 pounds comes out through your lungs. The remaining 1.6 pounds turns into water. In other words, nearly all of the weight we lose is exhaled. And that is something you should know. If you're old enough to remember a time before smartphones,

Starting point is 00:04:28 you pretty much had to remember phone numbers in your head. Today, you don't have to remember numbers because your phone remembers numbers. And if you were to ask people who never had to remember phone numbers to try to remember 10 or 15 different phone numbers, they would think it's close to impossible. But obviously it's not impossible because people used to do it all the time. The point is, our memory is pretty amazing. The problem is we don't really know how to use it,

Starting point is 00:04:58 and we don't really get to use it. So meet Chester Santos. Chester is a U.S. memory champion and is widely regarded as one of the greatest memory experts in the world. He has helped thousands of people and consulted with many Fortune 500 companies, helping their people use their memories better. He's also author of a book called Mastering Memory, Techniques to Turn Your Brain from a Sieve into a Sponge. Hi, Chester, welcome. Thanks a lot for having me, Mike.

Starting point is 00:05:29 So I think any discussion on memory has to include a discussion on remembering names. I mean, that's what a lot of people struggle with. You meet someone and five seconds later you've completely forgotten their name. So let's start there. How can we get better with names? You need to turn whatever it is that you're trying to remember, try to turn it into a visual, something that's easy to picture because we're very good at remembering things that we see. We often, when we see someone that we've met in the past,

Starting point is 00:06:01 right away, we remember their face. We know that we've met in the past, right away, we remember their face. We know that we've met them somewhere before, but a lot of times we can't seem to remember the name. So one thing I teach is trying to turn names into visuals. So Mike might become a microphone. You might visualize a microphone to remind you of Mike. Some sort of visual to represent the name is going to help. That's step one. You also want to try to involve additional senses if you can from there, because the more senses you involve, the more areas of your brain you're activating, and the more connections in your mind to the information you're building, it makes it easier to retrieve it later. And a third principle is to keep in mind that there is a

Starting point is 00:06:47 psychological aspect to human memory. That is, we all tend to remember things that catch us by surprise, that are strange, unusual, extraordinary in some way. Mike, if wherever you're doing this interview right now, if an elephant suddenly crashed into the room where you're at and started spraying water all over you, if that suddenly happened right now out of nowhere, it's so crazy out there completely out of the ordinary, you would probably remember that for the rest of your life and always tell that story. You'll never believe this. I was interviewing this memory guy one time for my podcast and an elephant just crashed into the room. That might be stuck in your head forever without you even trying to commit that to memory, right? There's this

Starting point is 00:07:37 psychological aspect to human memory. We can actually take advantage of that, believe it or not, and apply it to things that would be very useful to us, like remembering names, presentations, facts, figures, and so on. What I try to teach people is to combine those three principles all together. You want to, ideally, the ideal thing is that you will be able to visualize, utilize additional senses and make it crazy unusual in some way. So not just see the microphone, right? That's the first step, but you can also maybe feel the microphone or hear the microphone. A loud noise is emitting from the microphone, and it is a gigantic microphone. And maybe that microphone then splits into many different, like maybe hundreds of microphones.

Starting point is 00:08:34 So in that way, you visualize, you've involved the additional senses, and you've also made it crazy, unusual, and extraordinary in some way. And in the case of names, you want to also connect all of that crazy imagery and connect it to how the person looks in some way. So if you're meeting a mic and this particular mic has nice eyes, in your opinion, this mic has nice eyes, maybe a microphone is coming out of each eye, and that would be your starting point. This is useful because it triggers the memory.

Starting point is 00:09:18 The next time you see the person, you notice what was unique about their look before, and then the imagery will come back to you from there. Well, those things certainly sound like they would work, but my concern would be, at least for me, is when I meet someone and it's often in a crowded room and there's a lot of distraction, I'm trying to look them in the eye and say hello, that it would be hard to really discipline myself to concentrate on those things you just described in order to remember the name. So I suspect this is a skill you really have to practice and learn. Yes, it's definitely a skill that you can develop.

Starting point is 00:09:54 It's very effective, very powerful. I use it in presentations. I open with naming hundreds of people in the audience after just meeting everyone one time. So it's incredibly powerful, it just takes a little bit of practice. And in order to implement it in social interactions, there are four steps that you can utilize to help you. Step number one is when you're meeting someone,

Starting point is 00:10:18 whenever you meet someone, make it a point to immediately repeat their name, shake their hand. So if you're introduced to someone named Mike, you're just gonna make it a point to immediately repeat their name. Shake their hand. So if you're introduced to someone named Mike, you're just going to make it a point to say, nice to meet you, Mike, or pleased to meet you, Mike. Just get into that habit that forces you to pay attention for at least one second. I know that seems pretty obvious, but a lot of times when someone is introducing themselves to us, our mind is everywhere else, right? Our mind is on everything and anything other than the name. But that first step makes you pay attention for at least one second.

Starting point is 00:10:53 That's the only way you could repeat the name back to the person. Step two, very early on in your interaction with the person, ask them a simple question using their name. So, Mike, how do you know Chester? Or, Mike, how long have you been doing the podcast? Just one question early on will reinforce the name in your mind. Step three, take a few seconds or less to think of a connection between the name and anything at all that you already know. And I really mean anything at all.

Starting point is 00:11:23 So Mike, maybe Mike Tyson pops in your head, or it's a character from a TV show or movie could even be something as simple as you have a friend or family member that has that same name. They're also named Mike. It should take just three seconds or less to do this. And step four, whenever you leave the meeting, the party, whatever type of function it might be, make it a point to say goodbye to the person using the name. It was great to meet you, Mike, or I hope to see you again sometime, Mike. Going through those four steps also gives you the time to utilize the visual-based technique that I described earlier. Great idea.

Starting point is 00:12:03 You know, I find too that sometimes when I meet somebody, I forget their name and I go back and say, look, I'm sorry, I forgot your name. I remember it better then after that. Yes, and it's important to do that. So some people shy away from doing that because they're a little embarrassed, but I feel that at that particular point in time, the person isn't likely to be offended that you don't remember their name because they don't really expect you to know it yet. In the case that you just described, I think at that point in time, they're more likely to actually appreciate the fact that you care enough to really get their name right, to know their name. You're showing interest in that person.

Starting point is 00:12:44 I think it would be appreciated. Now, it's more when you've already met someone a couple of times before, someone that you interact with them on the job, it's a client, potential client, or they're involved with some organization that you're involved with where, you know, you should already know their name after meeting them a couple of times. Then it starts to become an issue. We're talking about memory and ways to make it better with Chester Santos. He is a U.S. memory champion and author of the book Mastering Memory, Techniques to Turn Your Brain from a Sieve into a Sponge. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a founder of the Go Kid Go Network.

Starting point is 00:13:24 At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network called The Search for the Silver Lining, a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. Look for The Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked

Starting point is 00:13:51 to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like something you should know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests,

Starting point is 00:14:06 but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth

Starting point is 00:14:26 control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes. Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back. And in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed critical thinker. Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, Chester, after remembering names, because that, I think, is the big one that a lot of people need help with, I know, for me, I wish there was a better way to just remember things like, you know, things to pick up at the grocery store or, you know, errands I need to run or people I need to call or just a better way to, in my head, remember things I have to do. One thing that I teach people is something

Starting point is 00:15:23 called the story method. I actually wanted to go through an exercise with the story method during this interview. If we can, you could follow along with it and your listeners as well, just to illustrate one of the really powerful techniques that I teach people that you can learn in simply a few minutes. So let me know if and when you're up for it during the interview. Go ahead. Okay, awesome. Let's give it a try. I'm just going to have you, Mike, attempt to memorize the following random list of words. It's going to be monkey, iron, rope, kite, house, paper, shoe, worm, envelope, pencil, river, rock, tree, cheese, and dollar. Now, when I first recite that list of words to people a lot of times

Starting point is 00:16:08 people are looking at me as if there's you know come on there's no way i'll remember that but in fact you will have that list of words committed to memory perfectly mike within just three minutes and also the people listening along to the podcast will also have it committed to memory perfectly. You will just listen to what I described to you, see and experience it happening in your mind as best you can. And one of the keys to this is to try to just have fun with it. Just relax, have fun with it. If you're able to do that, it's really going to make a huge difference in your ability to remember just about anything at all if you can just approach it as a fun exercise in creativity and imagination. So, Mike, just visualize a monkey because that was the first word.

Starting point is 00:16:52 The monkey is dancing around. It's making monkey noises, whatever a monkey would sound like. I'm working on the monkey impression, but try to see and hear the monkey. The monkey now picks up a gigantic iron because that was the second word. Just see this as best you can in your mind. Just visualize it. The iron starts to fall and a rope attaches itself to the iron. Maybe even feel the rope. Maybe it feels sort of rough. Really interact with it. You look up the rope and the other end of the rope is attached to a kite. It's flying around in the air. Maybe

Starting point is 00:17:25 reach up and try and touch that kite. The kite now crashes into the side of a house. Really see it smash into the house. This house you notice is completely covered in paper. For some strange reason, it's completely covered in paper. Next word was paper. Out of nowhere, a shoe appears and it starts to walk all over the paper. Just visualize that. The shoe smells pretty badly, so you decide to investigate and see why. You look inside of the shoe and you find a little worm crawling around inside of that shoe, a smelly worm. That worm jumps out of the shoe and into an envelope. Maybe it's going to mail itself or something. I don't know. Envelope was the next word. A pencil appears out of thin air magically and it starts to address the envelope. Really see that pencil quickly writing. Pencil was next. The pencil now jumps

Starting point is 00:18:15 into a river and there's a huge splash for some reason when the little pencil hits the river. The river, you notice, is crashing into a giant rock, crashing into a giant rock. The rock flies out of the river and into a tree. Really see it crash into that tree. This tree is growing cheese. You probably haven't seen a tree like that before. This one's growing cheese, and a dollar shoots out of each piece of cheese. The last word was dollar. Now, you and everyone listening probably already know the list, but I'm going to go through this again super fast. Just review the story in your mind. We started off with a monkey. It was dancing around with what? It was an iron. What next

Starting point is 00:18:55 attached? A rope. The other end of the rope was attached to what? A kite. The kite crashed into what? It was a house. What? Was it covered in paper? What then walked on it? A shoe. What was crawling in the shoe? It was a worm. The worm jumped into what? It was an envelope. What wrote on the envelope? A pencil. The pencil then jumped into the river. What did the river crash into? It was a rock. That rock flew into the tree. What was it growing? Cheese. And then what shot out of the cheese? It was a dollar. So now, Mike, go ahead and try to recall those. Take your time. Try to recall all the random words in order just by going through the story in your mind. Just do the best you can and your listeners can follow along as well. All right.

Starting point is 00:19:45 Well, monkey, iron, rope, kite, house, paper, shoe, a worm, envelope, pencil, Shoe. A worm. Worm. Envelope. Pencil. Pencil, pencil. River. Rock. Tree cheese dollar. Awesome, Mike.

Starting point is 00:20:18 You got it. Great job. Perfect. Under pressure there, too. Really great work. And I'm sure your listeners got all of the words, or if not all, at least most of the words. You know, what's interesting about that list is that it was easier to remember the strangest things. You know, the envelope and the pencil and the river were, that blurred a little bit. But tree and cheese and dollar, I mean, that part of the story was so weird that it was easier to remember than words that were more pedestrian. It's counterintuitive to some people. The things that don't make sense in the story actually are

Starting point is 00:20:56 more memorable because of that psychological aspect to human memory that I talked about earlier. We tend to remember things that are crazy, unusual, extraordinary. Okay, but as we just demonstrated, right after the story, I could remember that list of words. But I'm thinking that if you were to ask me tomorrow what that list of words were, or next week, I probably wouldn't remember because time has passed and I would forget. So how do you remember and then remember what you remember? So believe it or not, using these types of techniques, such as the story method that you just used, I would say with 100% probability you will remember

Starting point is 00:21:40 it tomorrow. And maybe even weeks from now, I get people emailing me months after a presentation. They still remember the words because without realizing at all, using this sort of technique, you are activating many different areas of your brain. You are making really efficient use of your brain to encode the information. Now, had you, Mike, instead memorized this with rote memory, how people usually commit things to memory, if you had just read it over and over again or recited it to yourself over and over again or just wrote it down on a sheet of paper over and over again until you drilled it into your head, in that case, you would not remember it tomorrow. You definitely wouldn't remember it a week or two later. But these techniques that I teach are making much more efficient use of the brain. So you'll definitely remember it. But you're right in that eventually it will just fall out of your memory. So ideally, you want to combine these techniques if it's something that you need to know for work, or it's an important presentation, or it's students studying for a final exam, if it's material that you need to have in your long-term memory, the ideal way to get things in your long-term memory is using the techniques that I teach people, these sorts of techniques combined with spaced repetition. So that is reviews spaced out over time

Starting point is 00:23:06 rather than 10 or 20 reviews just done tonight. We also call that cramming, right? And that's how most students commit things to memory. That's how most people go about committing things to memory that they need, whether it be for work or whatever it might be. Cramming is only good for short-term memory, but if you space out your

Starting point is 00:23:25 reviews over time and use these techniques, it will be really great for long-term memory. So quickly, a little bit about your story and how you got to be such a memory champion. I really was just flipping channels one night, and I happened to catch a segment on ABC's 2020 on the United States National Memory Championship, it sparked my interest because people, growing up, people often commented that I had a good memory. But when I looked into what the best people in the country were scoring in these events, memorizing hundreds of names, numbers, decks of playing cards and minutes, I quickly found out that although I did have a good memory, I was nowhere near that level. So that's where when I started doing research, I read every book

Starting point is 00:24:11 I could on memory improvement. I did a lot of online research. I experimented with everything that I could find. I found what worked best personally for me, stuck to training myself in that subset of techniques until eventually I did win the United States Memory Championship. And since then, I've spent the last 10 plus years training other people around the world in the subset of techniques that I feel can most benefit them in their career, personal life, and in school. And now I've gone on to write books on memory improvement as well.

Starting point is 00:24:43 Well, the phrase, you know, use it or lose it, if it applies to anything, it seems to apply to memory. As we started talking in the very beginning when I mentioned, you know, it wasn't all that long ago where you had to remember phone numbers in your head because that's the way people remembered them. And I haven't had to do that in a long time. And I imagine it would be really hard to do it because I haven't had to do that in a long time. And I imagine it would be really hard to do it because I haven't been doing it. Just using your memory, independent of the memory techniques that I teach, just using your memory more and more is going to improve your memory in general because the brain is very trainable, right? The more you force your brain to perform a particular function over and

Starting point is 00:25:26 over again, the more it signals to your brain that that's something important that you need to be able to do. So your brain finds a way to make itself better at doing it. Your brain is incredibly trainable, but the opposite is also true. If you never have your brain perform a particular function, if you're always writing everything down, if you're always entering things into electronic devices, what you're saying to your brain is, you know what, it's not important for me to be able to remember anymore. So it makes sense that you're going to start to lose that ability over time. And again, as you pointed out, yes, there are cases where we can let the electronic devices remember things for us, and that is beneficial.

Starting point is 00:26:09 But there are many cases out there where you don't want to be handicapped in terms of your ability to remember. And that's what's going to happen if remember when you make an attempt to remember it. Chester Santos has been my guest. He is a U.S. memory champion, and he's author of the book Mastering Memory, Techniques to Turn Your Brain from a sieve into a sponge. There's a link to his book in the show notes. And his website is internationalmanofmemory.com. I love that. Internationalmanofmemory.com, and that's also in the show notes. Thanks, Chester. Thank you so much, Mike, and I really appreciate you having me on the show.

Starting point is 00:27:01 And just let me know if you need anything else. Thank you. Do you love Disney? Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. There is nothing we don't cover. We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney-themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed,

Starting point is 00:27:26 but you definitely need in your life. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa Demonts for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? Each week we deliver four fun-filled shows. In Don't Blame Me, we tackle our listeners' dilemmas with hilariously honest advice. Then we have But Am I Wrong, which is for the listeners that didn't take our advice. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events. Then tune in to see you next Tuesday for our listener poll results from But Am I Wrong.

Starting point is 00:27:59 And finally, wrap up your week with Fisting Friday, where we catch up and talk all things pop culture. Listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. Do you know people who are really into status? Their life is all about achievements and image, their appearance. It's kind of like keeping up with the Joneses, only worse. These people believe that by being

Starting point is 00:28:32 smarter, better, prettier, having more money and toys, that that will bring them happiness. Well, this obsession has been given a name. The name is performance addiction. And the person who came up with that name is Dr. The name is performance addiction. And the person who came up with that name is Dr. Arthur Sierra McCauley. He is a licensed clinical psychologist in private practice,

Starting point is 00:28:56 and he's been on the faculty of Harvard Medical School for several years. And he's authored several books. One of them is Performance Addiction. Hi, Arthur. Welcome. Thank you, Mike. How are you? I'm good, thanks. So explain a little more about what performance addiction. Hey, Arthur, welcome. Thank you, Mike. How are you? I'm good, thanks. So explain a little more about what performance addiction is, because I think when people hear you describe this a little deeper, they can identify people they know, or maybe even a little bit of themselves in what you're talking about. Performance addiction is the belief that perfecting appearance and achieving status will secure love and respect.

Starting point is 00:29:26 It's an irrational belief system that becomes hardwired from early experience, and then it's reinforced by cultural expectations, you know, our high emphasis in our culture on appearance and status and image. So it's an irrational belief system that drives people to work an inordinate amount of hours and really can be very destructive in terms of their personal and professional life. And what's the difference between performance addiction and being a workaholic? Well, it's very similar, actually. But I think, you know, workaholics, I mean, sometimes the term has been misunderstood

Starting point is 00:30:04 because there are people who work very intensely 60 hours a week, but when they're not working, they're off. They can really relax. Performance addicts are not like that. They're sort of like scoreboard watchers. They're always comparing and contrasting themselves to other people in terms of how well they look or how well they do or how much money they make. And if that doesn't secure them the love and respect they want,

Starting point is 00:30:28 they try to work harder, do more, and acquire more status, and eventually it just drives them crazy because they're essentially trying to perfect themselves, and it's just not possible. Well, it would seem, though, that a little bit of that kind of drive is what you need to succeed in life. Yes, I mean, it's important to have drive because we need to invest ourselves in whatever we care about, whatever we love to do. But these are people who are not working because they love what they do. They're working because they think it's going to bring them something that's been missing all their lives. They think that status and acquiring more prestigious positions are going to bring them the love and respect that they missed early in life. And they don't realize that that's not the way to get love and respect.

Starting point is 00:31:15 They sort of have to unlearn this idea of perfecting and achieving is the way to gain love. Because in truth, they drive the people close to them crazy because they do the same to them as they do with themselves. They're always comparing and contrasting their spouses or their significant other or their kids to other kids, other spouses, because they're never quite happy with what is. They're never quite happy with how they live within themselves. So they're always trying to sort of essentially solve an internal problem through an external solution. This doesn't sound so much as an individual problem. I mean, this stuff is baked into society, this, you know, keeping up with the Joneses,

Starting point is 00:31:55 looking younger than your neighbor. I mean, this is not just a couple of people who suffer from this. Oh, no, it's a systemic addiction. It's an addiction in our culture, I believe. I mean, I have a performance addiction quiz in the book, and the majority of people take it score fairly high, especially people who are in the corporate or business world, because, you know, it's win at all costs. And you sort of adopt this belief that performance is something that is more important than character. You know, status is more important than character. Achievement is more important than positive relationships. And it doesn't really provide what people are looking for, but they're often unaware of really what they're looking for.

Starting point is 00:32:42 What are they looking for? They're looking for the love and respect they never got. And, you know, just recently I did a talk for 100 CEOs in the country, and one of the fellows was in his late 70s, and he came at the end of the talk because the last comment I made was, you know, I know you all have a lot of money, you're very successful, but if you fail at love, you've failed at life in the end. And he came up to me and he said, you know, you ruined my day. He said, I'm in my second marriage.

Starting point is 00:33:09 I've got three adult children. I sent them all to private high schools and private colleges. And, you know, I see my three sons maybe once a year. I don't even know my grandchildren. I'm in my second marriage and I don't relate to her very well. And I thought married a younger woman would sort of make me happy. But you're right. If you fail at love, you fail at life. And performance achievement and more money and a little plastic surgery doesn't bring you love. But where's the line? Where's the line between a good amount of drive and desire to achieve and do well and look good versus what you're talking about? Well, I think people who can work intensely, you know, as we were talking

Starting point is 00:33:54 before, but also know how to calm themselves, they're not scoreboard watchers. And that's what performance addicts are. They're always comparing themselves to other people. But people who work intensely and are balanced, they can relax. They can slow down. They have a dimmer switch. They can turn the light down when they need to. And they don't have the difficulty with self-care that performance addicts have. I mean, they eat well.

Starting point is 00:34:20 They exercise. They spend time with people close to them. They love to be with family. They give, volunteer. So their lives are balanced. When they need to turn the dial up, they do. But when they need to turn it down, they know how to do that as well, which is not what performance addicts do. So I understand what you mean about people who are trying to achieve their way into happiness and that that doesn't work. But you've also included in the discussion things like personal appearance and plastic surgery and, you know, buying a bigger boat.

Starting point is 00:34:52 And to me, that seems, in many ways, just wanting to succeed, to want a better life. And again, where's the line between performance addiction and healthy success? It's human nature to want to succeed, I would fully agree with you. And, you know, I'm a competitive person. I'm sure you are too. You wouldn't have the great success that you've attained. You know, we're competitive, we work hard. But if you're doing it with no love for what it is, if it's only to attain status and make up from some early feelings of not being worthy, then you're really going down a side street that will never be satisfying. So you have to look always at the balance of a person's life. Like, I consult the corporations,

Starting point is 00:35:37 there's so many people in the corporate world who are very successful, but their personal lives are disastrous. And that's where you can tell the difference. I would imagine that the realization that performance addiction is something that applies to you, it comes with some maturity that when you're younger, you probably don't see it in yourself, and in time, you do. Again, as we age, and I think our bodies give us feedback, and I think when you're younger, you can travel every week and work 80 hours a week. It doesn't affect you all that much.

Starting point is 00:36:10 You may not have positive relationships. You may not have a balanced life, but you're in a group of people that are all doing the same thing. I think as you get older, people start to wonder. You're 55 years old, and you're traveling every week, and you want to. It starts to seem a little odd. Why aren't you home with your wife or your husband? Why don't you want to take a longer vacation? Why don't you want some downtime?

Starting point is 00:36:33 But I can imagine someone listening to this thinking, but that's what I want to do. I want to achieve. Achievement is my goal. I do want more money in the bank, a bigger boat, and I don't want you to make me feel bad for wanting to achieve that. That's just me, and I'm perfectly happy doing it. And I would say that if you learn how to balance your life, you will achieve at higher levels. If you learn how to be empathic and connect with other people, you will actually

Starting point is 00:37:05 increase your achievement and you will also feel more at ease when you're not working. So I would say, okay, I have the same goal for you. But if you don't learn how to balance your life and you don't know how to slow down, you're going to burn out. You're not going to perform in the way you'd like to. And you see it time and time again. I have people in their late 40s telling me they think they have early Alzheimer's or some kind of dementia because their memory is going. You know, remember when we're stressed, we secrete the stress hormone cortisol, which destroys neurons in the memory center of the brain. So you see these very young achievers, like 40s, late 40s, but they've been working 80 hours a week for a long time, and they are burning out because they don't do much else. They don't exercise. They have poor nutrition. They don't sleep well. They drink too much. You know, they're out with customers so

Starting point is 00:37:55 often. So they're living a lifestyle that can't be sustained. So how do you step off that train? Well, I think, you know, really learning to focus on slowing down, learning how to focus on listening, not being a quick reactor, you know, trying to be more thoughtful. Meditation helps people. Yoga helps people. I don't think there's anything more helpful than consistent aerobic exercise. You know, when we exercise, especially in the morning, you produce calming neurochemicals that really make you more resilient to face stress during the day.

Starting point is 00:38:33 So when you're doing those other things, when you're paying attention to nutrition, sleep, exercise, when you have positive relationships, guess what happens? When you go into the work world, you're going to perform on a higher level, not a lower level. When I think of people I know who are performance addicts, as you describe them, they don't seem like the kind of people that could do this very easily. It would be like asking them to jump off a speeding train, because this is their fuel. This is how they've always done it. To is, to tell them to slow down and have better relationships and sleep more,

Starting point is 00:39:09 just seems like, how? How could they do that and give up their fuel? Well, I think you're right, because they're running. Like the CEO that I mentioned earlier, they're running away from their own inner thoughts. So it's very frightening to slow down. They don't want those thoughts to come forward. But if they do it with some help, they see that they actually are feeling better, that it's a relief,

Starting point is 00:39:35 that paying attention to self-care and learning how to listen more empathically, learning how to slow down, especially develop that dimmer switch, saving your energy and intensity for when you really need it, not having that light bulb up all the time, they realize that they've got to perform better, and they feel better, and they're better to be with.

Starting point is 00:39:57 When it starts, where does it start? And what I mean by that is, you know, I can think of people who are like this, who come from a family where there's other kids in the family who are not like this. So they take different paths, but what pushes someone down that path? Well, it starts early in life depending on how you're responded to. I mean, we have a little granddaughter, Carmela, who's four years old, and when I go and watch her play soccer, it's amazing to me how parents are reacting to four-year-olds. Some people are just out there with their kids and having fun and enjoying it. In other words, you'd think they're in the World

Starting point is 00:40:33 Series. And it starts there. It starts when those kids make a mistake or they kick the ball the wrong way or they use their hands. They're only four or five years old and you see a parent getting really irritated like he's living vicariously through the little person it starts there that's when you learn that achievement is the only way to get the love from my parents because they don't allow mistakes they they're it gives you the sense that you have to perform perfectly the mirrors that we look into early in life that's where it starts but if you're looking into mirrors that we look into early in life, that's where it starts. But if you're looking into mirrors that are cracked, it's like looking into a circus mirror. So if your parents have their own issues about performance and achievements and their egos are large or they're

Starting point is 00:41:14 insecure, you're looking into their mirrors to see who you are and you're getting a very distorted reflection of who you are. You can easily be thinking that if I don't excel, I'm not worth very much. And you can see the kids on this little playing field, the ones that have ability, that have reasonable parents, not overly punitive parents, not overly lax parents, you can see they're going to do well. Because they're not looking over their shoulder every time they kick a ball. They're just loving it. They're loving playing. And that's the difference between performance addicts and other people who achieve at high levels. There are some people who achieve at high levels, they love what they're doing. Performance addicts generally will tell you if they won the lottery, they'd quit tomorrow,

Starting point is 00:41:57 because all they're looking for is the status, the image, the reason that people look up to them, which is why they're so sensitive to criticism. But to your example of parents of those kids on the soccer field or the Little League team where the parents go nuts when the kid does something wrong, okay, that's a problem. But so is the flip side of that, I think, that a lot of people, including myself, don't like, is this, everybody makes the team, we don't keep score, everybody gets a trophy, there's no reward for achievement. Well, I would fully agree with you, Mike, because what I said is that, you know, a parent, you need to be a reasonable parent,

Starting point is 00:42:38 understanding where the child is and their development. What's a two-year-old supposed to be like? What can you expect from a four-year-old? So I'm not saying you should be overly permissive or overly punitive. If you have an understanding internal voice, if you're that way with yourself, you're very likely to be that way with your children. If they make a mistake, you don't yell at them. You don't see it as, you don't humiliate them. You don't see it as some major issue. You kind of see it for what it is. If a two-year-old spills milk at the dinner table, that's what two-year-olds do. They make mistakes. But some parents talk to little kids like they're adults, like you're embarrassing me. You know, you're not performing well. And that's what I

Starting point is 00:43:20 mean about performance addiction. They're always comparing and contrasting their kids, their spouses, to other people. Because their ego is so fragile, they're always worried about looking good. Well, you explain the problem really well, and I think people who have performance addiction, if they listen, can really hear themselves in what you're saying, and awareness is likely the first step. Dr. Arthur Sierra McCauley has been my guest. He's a licensed clinical psychologist. He's on the faculty of Harvard Medical School,

Starting point is 00:43:52 and his book is called Performance Addiction, and I've put a link to the book on Amazon in the show notes. Thank you, Arthur. Thanks so much, Mike. Did you know that the guy who invented Vaseline petroleum jelly supposedly ate a spoon? He ate a spoonful of it every day. And while that's probably not a recommended practice, Vaseline does have some interesting uses you might not be aware of. If you've ever struggled to get your earrings in, you rub a little Vaseline on and they'll slide right in. You can use some on boots or shoes to get rid of scuff marks and make them look as good as new. Vaseline can help you maintain your perfume scent. If you rub a little Vaseline on

Starting point is 00:44:38 your wrist and neck first, it will help your perfume stick around. It'll make your eyelashes grow. Put a little Vaseline on your lashes at night and watch them lengthen like magic. And if you never want to get lipstick on your teeth again, just put a little Vaseline on your teeth and the lipstick won't stick. That's a technique often used by beauty contestants. And that is something you should know. If you like this podcast, please share it with a friend or two. And remember, all of our sponsors, all of our terrific sponsors who support

Starting point is 00:45:11 this program and keep it going, their web addresses and the promo codes you can use to get various discounts, it's all listed in the show notes so you don't have to remember or go back and listen for them. It's all in the show notes for this episode. I'm Micah Ruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide

Starting point is 00:45:38 when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent VB Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer,

Starting point is 00:46:01 unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a co-founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce

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Something You Should Know - SYSK Choice: How to Master Memory & The Pitfalls of Performance Addiction

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