Something You Should Know - SYSK Choice: How to Optimize Your Speaking Voice & How Animals Affect You

Episode Date: December 18, 2021

For many of us, the Christmas holiday season is very special. Yet, there was a time in the United States when it was illegal to celebrate Christmas. The episode begins with an explanation of when and why Christmas was outlawed. https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/holidays/christmas-ideas/g2972/surprising-christmas-facts/?slide=25 A big part of the image you present to people is from your voice and the way you speak. Yet, a lot of people don’t like their voice and wish it sounded better or different. If you would like to optimize your voice, listen as I talk with Dr. Jackie Gartner-Schmidt a voice-specialized speech language pathologist and professor at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. She has a TED talk here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGmGKAk3y-0&feature=youtu.be If you are sending packages to people this holiday season you need to hear these simple suggestions from people who actually deliver packages. Their advice will help your Christmas gifts get their safely, on time and undamaged. http://www.rd.com/culture/confessions-ups-handler/ You have likely heard of the health benefits to owning a dog or cat. But our beneficial connection with animals goes well beyond that according to Richard Louv author of the book Our Wild Calling: How Connecting with Animals Can Transform Our Lives―and Save Theirs (https://amzn.to/2RUzdHX). Listen as he explains why we need animals in our lives and what all of our encounters with animals do for us - and the animals. PLEASE SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS! We really like The Jordan Harbinger Show! Check out https://jordanharbinger.com/start OR search for it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen!  Go to https://stamps.com click the microphone at the top of the page, and enter code SOMETHING to get a 4 week free trial, free postage and a digital scale! Get a $75 CREDIT at https://Indeed.com/Something Discover matches all the cash back you’ve earned at the end of your first year! Learn more at https://discover/match Go to https://FarewayMeatMarket.com promo code: SYSK to get $100 off The Butcher's Holiday Collection and site wide free shipping! Go to https://backcountry.com/sysk to get 15% OFF your first full-priced purchase! https://www.geico.com Bundle your policies and save! It's Geico easy! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This is an ad for BetterHelp. Welcome to the world. Please, read your personal owner's manual thoroughly. In it, you'll find simple instructions for how to interact with your fellow human beings and how to find happiness and peace of mind. Thank you, and have a nice life. Unfortunately, life doesn't come with an owner's manual.

That's why there's BetterHelp Online Therapy. Connect with a credentialed therapist by phone, video, or online chat. Visit betterhelp.com to learn more. That's BetterHelp.com. Today on Something You Should Know, Christmas is the favorite holiday of many, but it used to be illegal to celebrate it. I'll explain when and why. Then, your voice. People make assumptions about you by how you talk. When we talk in a low pitch and in vocal fry and maybe not with a lot of pitch inflection like I'm talking now, the perception is negative, that we're tense, that we're weak, that we're

hesitant. Also, does it really help to write the word fragile on the Christmas package you're sending? And our connection with animals, interacting with them has an amazing effect on us. What we do know is that domestic animals increase our lifespan. Owning a dog will improve all kinds of things from your heart rate to your stress level and even potentially how long you live. All this today on Something You Should Know. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like Something You Should Know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show.

Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy,

it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes. Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back. And in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed critical thinker. Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Something you should know.

Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome to Something You Should Know. We're right in the middle of the Christmas holiday season, and for many people, their favorite time of year. Certainly my favorite holiday. But did you know that celebrating Christmas used to be illegal? By the time the Puritans settled Boston, celebrating Christmas was outlawed. In fact, from 1659 to 1681, anyone caught making merry would face a fine for celebrating the once pagan holiday. After the Revolutionary War, the new Congress found the day so unimportant that they even held their first session on December 25, 1789. Christmas wasn't proclaimed a federal holiday for nearly another

century, which would have made the Grinch very happy. And that is something you should know. Without even realizing it, you make judgments about people based on the sound of their voice. And they make judgments about you based on the sound of your voice. In many ways, your voice is like an instrument. And how well you play that instrument makes an impression on everyone who hears it. If you want to be perceived as competent or confident or charming, or however you want to be perceived, your voice will either help or hurt that perception.

Here to discuss the finer points of using your voice effectively is Dr. Jackie Gartner-Schmidt. She is a voice-specialized speech-language pathologist and professor at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, and she is also a presentation consultant. Hey, Jackie, welcome. Thanks, Mike. So explain how this works, how it is your voice telegraphs who you are to the people who hear it. Well, actually, let me give you an example. I'm going to say one sentence three different ways and think about judging me, not only how I look, but also judging my personality. So here's

take number one. Thanks, Mike, for giving me the opportunity to speak about my passion, the human voice. Take number two. Thanks, Mike, for giving me the opportunity to speak about my passion, the human voice. Take three. Thanks, Mike, for giving me the opportunity to speak about my passion, the human voice. In all those three sentences, you were judging physically, if I'm tall, short, small, fat, brown hair, blonde hair. And you were also, most importantly, judging my personality, if I'm smart, dumb, confident, insecure, etc. So just like we can read a person's face, we can also read a person's voice.

And there's some research, Mike, that is now showing that vocal cues may be more critical to accurate emotional perceptions, recognitions than facial cues. So that old adage, you know, it's not what you say, but how you say is spot on. Well, it's always interested me having been in the radio and the podcasting business, how when people can't see you and they hear you on the radio or in your podcast, and then they see you, how often they say, well, you don't look anything like I thought you would. You don't look at all like I pictured you. Exactly. And that's because people create a picture of me, hopefully much more handsome and debonair

than I actually am, when they hear me. And I think that's true of everybody, because I think the brain just has to fill in the blanks. If it can't see you, it creates this image. And with that, as you say, all the things that go along with that, what kind of person you are, how confident you are, and all of that, it's just human nature to fill in those blanks. No, you're absolutely right. But here's the rub. When we talk in a low pitch and in vocal fry, and maybe not with a lot of pitch inflection, like I'm talking now, there's research after research that the perception is negative, that we're tense, that we're, you know, weak, that we're hesitant, that we're less hireable. And a lot of times we try to mask

our emotions and we go overboard and we do it the wrong way. Yeah. Does that make sense? And so, you know, with, with high pitched, again, we're anxious, we're, we're scared, we're untrustworthy, we're, we're stressed, but in reality, let's say we're not, we're like completely, you know, really good at our job, but we've just blown a phone interview screening by letting our emotions hijack our voice. I think people have a sense, you would know better than I, that their voice is their voice. Because you'll ask people who don't like their voice, oh, I have a really nasal voice and I just hate it. And they think that they're stuck with it, that that is who they are.

That's the voice that they will have till the day they die. And there's nothing they can do about it. No, there's definitely things that they can do about it with manipulation of breathing and how they voice. So they can be breathy. They can be twangy. They can be rough like this. And also how the voice resonates. we can definitely change our voice. Now, what we can't 100% change is that there are some people that are just really lucky that their vocal tract, which is above their vocal folds or vocal cords, is like the Sydney Opera House, meaning that they just have a really great resonant voice. But for most mere mortals, we can change a person's voice. And so how do I do that? If I don't like my voice, is there some sort of objective

practice that will improve any voice? Yes. So put your finger up to your mouth, and I want you to make an ooh sound with airflow. And so you're going to feel, you're going to hear airflow in my mic right now. All right? So it's going to be like this. Can you hear that? Loud and clear. All right. So here's the thing that's important. Right there, most times, people don't use their airflow when they speak. In fact, they hold their airflow back. They're quasi-breath holders. And one of the symptoms of holding your air back when you speak, and also just holding it and breath holding it during the day, is people who sigh a lot. Because when we're ruminating, and when we're thinking, a lot of people hold their breath. And when they hold their breath, and then they go to speak, all of a sudden, their vocal folds are a little tense. And when they hold their breath and then they go to speak, all of a sudden their vocal folds are a little tense. And then they're in a loud, noisy environment and they have to have some dynamic range. And all of a sudden they get tight in their throat.

So what we can do in therapy and in coaching, in voice coaching, is teaching patients and clients to, you're going to hear some noise here, feel the sounds of speech. Each consonant has a mouthfeel. And as voice professionals, we want to be feeling the sounds of our speech. I had a patient who was actually an actor, and I was working with her. And at the end, she said, you know, Jackie, you actually want me to have a consonant salad in my mouth when I speak. Because, Mike, when we feel those consonants at the front of our mouth, the lips, the teeth, the tip of the tongue, that's airflow and that's support. But a lot of speakers actually feel the energies of voicing in the back of their throats and they get tired. They get vocal fatigue. They drop their pitch and they get into what I call the pitch ditch. And so you're saying, and I've heard it

expressed different ways, that the words need to kind of ride on the air. The air, the breath is the vehicle and the words kind of take a ride on top of that. Yep, absolutely. So right now, oftentimes what we'll do with the patients is to say to them, I want you to hold out a Z, pretend you're a mosquito and go Zzzzzzz. And then we say, where do you feel the energies of a Z? And guaranteed, if they're stressed and they're nervous, and you could actually hear it a little in mine, because I'm a little nervous, I'm not going to lie, talking with you, is that the air gets a little jerky. And so it might sound more like, if you're uptight, right? Because the first thing to go when we are stressed is our breath, faster breathing rate, and we get a little shallow in our breathing. And sometimes you'll hear

when someone takes a breath in. And then worst case scenario, and this is when you go into the disordered population, is people, they just, they don't talk. They can't voice. Because of so much stress and some stuff that's going on in their life. I think everybody's had that experience of being in a meeting or speaking in front of a group where you get up and you start to talk and you realize your voice is quivering. It's actually shaking, audibly shaking, which makes you more stressed and nervous, which probably makes the problem worse. And so I imagine we're talking about the same thing, where it's the stress and the lack of breathing that's causing that.

Yeah, what's happening is the vocal folds, when we're scared, the vocal folds tense up. And in some situations, they close altogether. That's why, you know, those common vernacular, like the common examples, I got all choked up. That's because your vocal folds closed. Or you get a lump in your throat. That's because your vocal folds closed. Or you get a lump in your throat. That's because your vocal folds and all the muscles are tight. Or your voice quivers. Or,

you know, the scariest thing is when people say that they couldn't scream for help. So here's my example. Right now, if a plane came, and this is a terrible thing, but if a plane came crashing into the studio that I'm in right now, three things would happen. We know this in animal research, and we know this in human subjects. And that is that we'd blink, our heart rate would go up, and we'd hold our breath. And so when we're nervous, the vocal folds protect us. They're actually trying to protect us, but it comes out badly in our voice. So understanding that everybody's different,

but that if there was a thing, if there were five people in the room and you wanted them all to speak better, you would say to these five people as a group, here's what I want you to do. What would you say to them? I would have them do lip bubbles. Because that gets the air moving and the vocal folds vibrating. Another thing that I would do is the finger phonation. Phonation just means voice,

blowing on your finger like I did before. The next thing that I would do is have them speak clearly. Spit out the consonants like I'm doing now. The third thing that I would have them do is modulate their pitch. A lot of people don't use a big pitch inflection. And A, it's boring to listen to, but B, for the speaker, it's so much easier to use good pitch inflection. That's it. Well, I like that. Fast, easy, effective strategies. We're talking about your voice today, and my guest is Dr. Jackie Gartner-Schmidt, a voice-specialized speech-language pathologist and professor at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network

called The Search for the Silver Lining, a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. Look for The Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives.

So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science,

tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson, discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. So something I'm very aware of and sensitive to because I edit this podcast is how people say um and ah a lot.

And in places, because I have to edit some of them out, and they say it in places where you don't think they'd say it. Like we're talking about cars, somebody might say the um car. Well, they knew they were going to say car, so why throw an um in the middle? It amazes me how much people say um and ah. Yeah, it's nervousness. The other thing I guess I would say to your listening audience is learn how to pause. And pausing when you're nervous is so uncomfortable. It seems so unnatural. But that pausing and slowing down when you speak will give you time to not do the ums and ahs. And it's funny, you know, in regular conversation, if we were sitting across from each other right now, and we had our, you know, nonverbal communication, I saw you, it's actually completely normal to say, um, because it's what we call a paralinguistic skill.

It's a, see, I just did it. It's a word that you use for turn taking. So I'm listening to you and I'm like, uh-huh. And now I'm signaling to you, it's my turn to talk. Getting back to your question in how to stop it is to be deliberate when you're speaking, pause, and you should be okay. Can I say one other thing about slowing down the rate of speech? Rate of speech is very much personality driven. I'm a type A and I talk fast. However, when I'm speaking, I'm making sure that I am also articulating the end sounds

of all the words. And that will naturally slow me down and give me a linguistically appropriate time to pause and then think of what I'm going to say again. And when you say pause, what you mean is instead of saying, um, don't say anything. Yeah, exactly. Just be quiet. Yeah, silence. Silence. And, you know, it's very, very common. And before I actually do, I'm a presentation consultant on the side, and I've had many consultants, you know, critique me. And when I first got into this, this is kind of embarrassing, in a 45 minute presentation, they counted me saying so 15 times. That doesn't

surprise me. That's how people talk. It is, but when you're doing so's, um's, er's, uh-huh's, just as you said, these filler words, they're really weak words. We don't need them when we present. We don't need them on the air. Yeah. Well, that's, I mean, I can prove that because I have taken somebody who is ummed and awed their way through an explanation, and it sounds very weak. And when you edit out the ums and ahs, you can make people sound very, very confident and very strong in their arguments by eliminating those, physically removing them. And it changes everything. It does. It does. It's amazing. It's amazing.

And the only problem is we don't have you with us all the time to do that. And if you're doing it live, it's hard to edit it out. Right, right, right. Exactly. I think that, yes, maybe people say um and ah because they're nervous a lot of the time, but I also think people use it, especially quote experts, often use it to try to sound more thoughtful, you know, that's, well, the thing about the thing, well, I think that it has to do with, and I think they think it makes them sound more thoughtful, but I think it has the opposite effect. I think too that, especially in any

type of public speaking or podcast, I ask my clients, how do you want to be perceived? And most of it, I'm in academic medicine, so this makes sense. Most of them say smart. And I will say to them, no, actually, how you want to be perceived is trustworthy. You want to be perceived as likable. And so I think you're spot on that a lot of people will use these ums and errs and whatever because they're looking to sound perhaps like the sage on the stage. And sometimes when you're just your authentic you, you come off better. In fact, I think you always come off better being your authentic you.

Another thing I've noticed that people do, primarily women do this, is they go up at the end of a sentence when they're talking, even though they're not asking a question, but it sounds like everything is a question. And I believe I've heard that there is some research that shows that that really does take away some of your credibility, that you don't sound confident, you sound unsure of yourself because you're going up at the end of the sentence? A lot of people, they don't realize that they're doing it. And it's a really easy way to find out that the person may be a little bit insecure. And you know what, we're all insecure insecure but once that is pointed out that we should drop our pitch at the end of the phrase then they sound so much more confident

but you're right it's the old valley girl hello where are we going to go eat today because of the business i'm in i'm into voices and how people sound and one of the business I'm in, I'm into voices and how people sound. And one of the things that amazes me is how much time we waste asking people to repeat themselves. Because they don't speak clearly, or they don't speak loudly, or they're looking the other way when they're talking to you and you're behind their back. We spend such a great deal of time asking people, huh, what, what'd you say? Say it again. No, no, no, you're absolutely right. We actually, in therapy, have our patients label their voices, label their clear, crisp, consonant voice, their clear speech voice with good intonation, and then label their holding their air back voice and their maybe lower pitch and rough quality. And it's amazing what people

say. You know, I had one person say that her, let's say, efficient, good voice, she said, it's my fake voice. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, fake, that's not good. I said, what do you mean by that? And she said, well, she said, I'm an introvert and I'm really shy. And when I go to speak and if I use this voice that we've been practicing on, I like it. She said, but it's my confident voice. She said, I'm not really a confident person. And then does that make sense? So the whole idea of who we are, our person, our emotions and all that, and how it comes out in our voice is just flippant, fascinating to me. And me as well. I really enjoy listening to voices and hearing things in them that other people probably don't listen for or notice.

It's like a hobby. And I appreciate you sharing your expertise with us. Dr. Jackie Gartner-Schmidt has been my guest. She is a voice-specialized speech-language pathologist and professor at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center. And she is also a presentation consultant. Thanks, Jackie. All right. Well, thank you. Hey, everyone. Join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa Demonts, for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong?

Each week, we deliver four fun-filled shows. In Don't Blame Me, we tackle our listeners' dilemmas with hilariously honest advice. Then we have But Am I Wrong, which is for the listeners that didn't take our advice. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events. Then tune in to see you next Tuesday for our listener poll results from But Am I Wrong. And finally, wrap up your week with Fisting Friday, where we catch up and talk all things pop culture. Listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday.

Do you love Disney? Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. There is nothing we don't cover. We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney-themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed, but you definitely need in your life. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. Several years ago, my next guest coined a phrase. The phrase is nature deficit disorder, and it refers to the idea that not spending time outdoors in nature has a detrimental effect on our health. Or put another way, spending time outdoors in nature has a positive effect.

His name is Richard Louv, and his landmark book back then was called Last Child in the Woods. Richard has a new book out called Our Wild Calling, How Connecting with Animals Can Transform Our Lives and Save Theirs. And this builds on that idea that we not only need to spend time outdoors among trees and plants, we also need to interact with animals, and there are benefits for doing so. Hi, Richard. Good to have you here. So, first, let's capsulize that idea that you talk about, that being in nature is so good for you. Sure. There's a growing body of evidence. When I wrote Last Child in the Woods,

there were about 60 studies that I could find that I could cite, mainly about the benefits of nature. Today, there's almost a thousand studies that point in the same direction, which is that this helps our physical health, our psychological health, our cognitive functioning, our ability to learn and create. All of those things are very much helped by more experiences in the natural world. And when you say experiences in the natural world and being out in nature, what does that mean? What exactly does that mean? You know, defining nature is difficult, particularly for science, but it can be a city park. It can be anywhere where you're in the presence, my definition, of life other than your own species. And if you focus on it, if you pay attention, and I think that's the key. It can be

found in inner cities. It can be found in suburbs and rural areas. But the key is to realize it's there and realize that it's not just a nice-to-have. It really is a have-to-have when you start looking at these studies. And so how much nature is enough nature? How much time do you have to spend in nature to get the benefits you're talking about? That's a great question, and I evade answering it because some academics have actually tried to answer that. There's a professor, a researcher in Ireland, for instance, who has determined that just five minutes in a natural setting will produce measurable results in your psychological attitude and your sense of well-being and all of that.

But I kind of don't go there because it's not only what is nature, it's what was the weather like that day? You know, what animal did you run into? There are so many variables. The good studies look at it over time and not just one experience. And so let's talk about our relationship with animals and how that is different. Because when I think of nature, going out in nature, I don't necessarily think of coming in contact with animals so much other than maybe seeing

some birds in the sky. I think of trees and grass and dirt and things like that. So this is different than what I think of just being in nature. You know, I've admitted in the past that I'm plant blind. I've written about the effect of plants and trees on human beings, but I prefer lizards. So I'm kind of the opposite of you. I look for the animals. It's interesting that the studies, the body of scientific knowledge of this,

all those thousand studies, not all of them, but many of them, focus mainly on vegetation, on green space, as you've described it, and its impact on us. Very little has been done on wild animals and how they affect us, other than zoonotic diseases and lion attacks. But the benefits of that has really not been delved into by science very much. What we do know is that domestic animals increase our lifespan. Owning a dog, as you do, will improve all kinds of things, from your heart rate to your stress level and even potentially how long you live. And again, though, what's enough?

I mean, it's hard to prescribe someone being in nature or being with animals or whatever if there's no sense of like, well, what is it that I do and how long do I do it? I think when you experience it, you know it. And our wild calling is filled with stories. These are stories both about their relationships with their own dog or cat or other domestic animal. But most of them are about encounters with wild animals, an encounter with an eagle, an encounter with a bobcat. You know, what they learn from birds, how they feel when that happens. And it can be transcendent. It can be something that actually becomes a kind of altered

state or states in the way that people describe these moments. Like how so? Because, I mean, it seems like if I saw a bald eagle, I have seen a bald eagle in the wild, and it was pretty cool, but that's all it was. It was just really cool to see, but I don't know that it was transcendent. If the bald eagle landed, and you were close to it, and you had eye contact with it for a while, that would be a different experience. I was out on a lake one time, have a little electric motor in my boat. It's quiet. I saw what I thought were two vultures on the shore, and I eased up to the vultures, and they weren't.

They were giant golden eagles. And I stayed there for about 20 minutes, about 20 feet from them, or it seemed like 20 minutes. It seemed even longer. And they would lean down and take a bite of the fish they were eating, and then they would look up at me. We maintained eye contact for what seemed like forever. I felt something that I can't really explain very well. It goes beyond human language. I told my son that afternoon when I got back about this, and I told him, Matthew, what I felt was that whoever I tell you I am, I'm not. Whoever I was in those moments is who I actually am. One of the things that happens with people when they have these experiences

is that time either bends or seems to go away. The sense of scale changes. That's what I mean by altered states. But you have to really be aware of it. You have to notice. You have to really be there. And so that's great for the moment, but tie that into the research

and how that is of any benefit other than in that moment. Or maybe that's just it. Well, the moment lasts. One of the stories that a guy tells me, he's an oceanographer at Scripps Institution of Oceanography. He was on the bottom of the ocean one day when he was in college. He was collecting samples, scuba gear.

He felt something really big come above him and then stop. That's usually not a good sign. And he looked up and he saw a tentacle coming down, then another big tentacle and risking anthropomorphism, he says, it was a 12 foot span octopus and it decided I was a clam and it came down and got me. And it wrapped him up in its arms. Those arms are weird. Each arm of an octopus has essentially an independent brain. And around that time, Paul Dayton realized he was running out of oxygen. And so he kicked off with his feet as hard as he could.

He went up and up and up with the octopus still wrapped around him, moving around his body. He could feel the razor-sharp beak of the octopus on his neck. And then he finally was looking into his eye. And this hardcore scientist says, I don't know what it was, but it felt like we made a non-aggression pact. About then, they hit the top of the water. He ripped off his mask, gasping for air. He looks back down through the surface of the water. He sees the octopus still there looking at him. And then the octopus turns around and dives deep down into the ocean.

The next part is the best part of the story. What does Paul do? He puts his mask back on, and he dives down and chases the octopus down into the darkness. And I said, Paul, why in the world would you do that? And he said he has no clue. But he didn't want those moments to end. And he actually used the word spiritual. And that's something that scientists tend not to do. And again, he's one of the most famous oceanographers among oceanographers. That moment, that experience, changed him in ways that he has a hard time explaining, but it changed him. It informed the rest of his career.

He's now in his 80s. Again, a lot of this is beyond human language, but many people have experienced it, and it's not that hard to experience on your own. Here's my story that happened recently. We just moved, and the first night, the very first night we were in our new house, I took my dog for a walk and was across the street, and I saw the neighbor going through the, or putting out his trash. And I started to walk towards him to introduce myself,

because I hadn't met the neighbor yet. And I took a few steps towards him and realized it wasn't my neighbor. It was a big bear going through his trash. That's great. No, it wasn't great. I was scared. It wasn't, okay. But I made eye contact with the bear. The bear looked at me, and I looked at him. I was scared to death.

And I backed away and came home and have later talked to other neighbors, and they said, oh, the bears are just looking for food. They don't bother people. And I said, well, I wish someone had told me that before. But, you know, they'll bother you if you bother them, but they're just looking for something to eat, and the neighbor left his trash out. But that story, I'll never forget that moment of that eye contact with that bear.

It was not like your friend with the octopus. It was my preconceived terror that I was about to be eaten by a bear. Yeah, and I've been in that situation too with bears on Kodiak Island in Alaska, and I know exactly what you're saying. That fear is part of the experience often. And while we don't know a lot about exactly how animal encounters affect us or change us in terms of science, we do know in terms of science about awe and wonder. And awe is gaining a lot of notice in science, how that changes us, how that affects our health when we feel that sense of awe. Often, we feel awe when we are out of our comfort zone, and sometimes, often, when we're in danger. So what you probably felt was that sense of danger, and the reason you remember it is not only the danger, but a feeling of awe.

You mentioned early on, and the experience most people have with animals is not with octopuses. What's the plural of octopus? It is. I looked it up. It's octopuses. It's not octopi. Most people don't have those kind of encounters or with bears. It's dogs, cats, birds, you know, maybe rats in their attic kind of thing. Everyone has heard the research that, you know, having a dog is good for you, but is there a sense as to why that is? Why having a dog lowers your heart rate or has any benefit? Well, one of the literal things that happens is people take more walks.

We know that. That's measurable. When you pet a dog or a cat, it does calm you. The heart rate does go down. Now, why that's true, I'm not sure. They've parsed that out, but they've measured that. I think there are other things that happen too. I had a dog named Banner when I was a boy and I spent much of my boyhood in the woods with him. And I always

had the sense that Banner was teaching me a set of ethics. I wouldn't have called it that when I was a boy, but later I thought about that a lot. I mentioned that to an animal behavioralist, and he dismissed that as romanticizing my dog. And it's possible I was romanticizing him a bit, but he did things that neighbors noticed, not just me. They were pretty remarkable. Well, I found some research, German research, and they're not alone in this. There's a theory that we domesticated gray wolves into dogs. All dogs come from gray wolves. And, you know, we drew them to our fire by throwing bones out, etc. There's another theory, and probably both of these theories are right, that they domesticated us, that we followed them as they hunted. We saw their cooperative behavior. We saw them using teamwork to hunt, and we probably picked up their leftovers.

The German research talked about that and used the word ethics, that we watched the behavior of wolves and became more human because of it. That's what I felt with Banner. That's what I felt with my dog, that there's something more there than, you know, just physiologically our heart rate getting better. We do know through the science that having companion animals teaches empathy to kids. We get a sense of what death is about because we outlive these animals. Well, it is interesting when you think about how, and especially today,

how people really are into their pets. I mean, the pet paraphernalia industry is huge. People treat their pets as if they're almost human. And really, having a pet is just, one of the things is it takes a lot of work if you do it right. I mean, you've got to feed them, you've got to walk them, you've got to, you know, take care of them, make sure they get medical care and all that. And yet, people have had pets forever. So clearly, there's some benefit there, whether it's obvious or not, or people wouldn't do it. Well, there are a few cultures that do not have pets. They're quite different. But yes,

you know, pets have existed forever for most cultures. You're right. I mean, the pet industry is huge now, bigger than ever. There are more dogs in the United States now than ever before. The city planner of Toronto told me there are more dogs in Toronto now than there are human children. Something's going on there. Part of the thing is that millennials are delaying childbirth. And so it is true that pets can become kind of surrogate children as they delay childbirth or child rearing. But I think there's something else going on here. And one of the themes of our wild calling is human loneliness, the epidemic of human loneliness that medical people are now talking about. They're now saying that human isolation is about to surpass obesity as a cause of early death,

not just because of suicide, but because of all the diseases associated with loneliness. I think that that loneliness is rooted in species loneliness. We're desperate not to feel alone in the universe. The urban parks that have the highest benefit for human psychological well-being happen to be the parks with the highest biodiversity. I don't think that's an accident. We're desperate not to feel alone in the universe. So it seems that implied in everything you're saying is that there is some sort of communication between us and animals,

perhaps between animals and other animals, that we're not in a vacuum, that we are interacting in some way. And there's all kinds of ways they communicate. They're astonishing. You know, horses have more facial expressions than dogs do. Of the animals studied, horses are second only to human beings in terms of the amount of things that they're communicating with their faces. We just don't see it, most of us, because we're not that familiar with horses

because they happen so quickly and so minutely, but they're there. Horse whispers can pick that up. They have the kind of sensitivities that allow them to pick that up. It's not extrasensory perception, probably. It's this other thing, just being aware, noticing, paying attention to those things over time. This whisper that's all around us can be tapped into. There are people, there's one guy, a profile, a great guy named John Young in the Bay Area. He takes hundreds of people out into the

forest and teaches them bird language. And by what he means by bird language isn't just the tweets they make, the sounds they make, but their particular behaviors and movements and how they change when another animal comes into their territory. There's all kinds of complexities to that communication. Squirrels understand birds, some of them. Squirrels understand some of the alarm sounds that birds make, and some squirrels even mimic those alarm sounds to tell other squirrels that something bad is on the way. There are studies of prairie dogs. There's one going on that's really amazing where they're decoding prairie dog language. It turns out prairie dogs are really good reporters, and they're not reporting fake news.

They can literally report that a man is approaching the prairie dog town and wearing a white shirt. And they can report this in detail. They pass it on to the next prairie dog and pretty soon the whole town knows it. The person doing that research believes that we can put that language into a computer and have it come out in English or whatever language we want and vice versa too.

He believes that we'll be able to speak into a machine and have that talking prairie dog language to them. Well, maybe. It seems a little far-fetched. So, Richard, what is the takeaway here? What's the prescription? What's the message? I think for our kids and for ourselves is to pay attention. I've said that on a few radio interviews, and I got an email the other day from somebody who's actually in the book, a scientist in British Columbia. And he said he heard me say that. And he said that Aldous Huxley, who wrote Brave New World, his last book was called Island. And it was the opposite of Brave New World. It's about a utopian society.

And he said that there was a magpie character in the book that goes around saying the word attention, attention. I think that's what we don't do often. And if we pay attention, if we watch and listen and stop, and the animal stops, that experience, as we've talked about, can be amazing. Well, as we've talked and as you've told your stories, and I told my bear story, I think everybody has some story about an encounter they've had with an animal that has really stuck with them and is a very vivid memory. And I think you've shed some light on why those encounters are so important and so interesting. Richard Louv has been my guest.

The book is called Our Wild Calling, How Connecting with Animals Can Transform Our Lives and Save Theirs. And you will find a link to his book at Amazon in the show notes. Thanks, Richard. Thank you very much. I'm sure a lot of the time when you buy gifts for people online, you have the store you buy them from ship the gifts. But sometimes you want to ship something yourself. And most of the time, things arrive safely. But according to one UPS handler, your package goes on a pretty scary ride. Packages sit on a slide, while hundreds of other packages push from behind. If an especially heavy package slides down on top of yours,

the box could burst open and get flattened. So here's a few things you should be aware of. First of all, writing fragile on the box is meaningless. No one pays attention to that. They all say fragile. If you're sending something really expensive, it's better to put it in a cheap plastic cooler that you can buy at the store for a couple of bucks and then box it up because those coolers are virtually indestructible. If you're reusing an old box, make sure you take all the old labels off. If scanned, those labels could send your box to the wrong state or even back to you. And here's a trick. Have your kid write the recipient's name and address in crayon on the box.

According to one UPS driver, I'm not about to smash a package that some kid sent. And that is something you should know. Hey, you could give the gift of something you should know this holiday season. Just tell your friends to listen so they too can enjoy what you enjoy on this podcast. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know.

Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer,

unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is af convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. Contained herein are the heresies of Redolph Buntwine, erstwhile monk-turned-traveling Thank you.