Something You Should Know - SYSK Choice: If Your Walls Could Talk & The Power of Positive Confrontation

Episode Date: February 29, 2020

Everyone knows that as you age, your mental function declines. But when does that begin? Age 40? 50? I’ll tell you what the science says. http://www.womenshealthmag.com/health/memory-decline Then, we look at the history of your home. Every room in your home has a story to tell. The bedroom is particularly fascinating and wait until you hear about your bathroom! Lucy Worsley, Chief Curator at Historic Royal Palaces, the independent charity that looks after the Tower of London, Hampton Court Palace, Kensington Palace State Apartments and other royal palaces in London, is author of the book, If Walls Could Talk: An Intimate History of the Home (http://amzn.to/2rRAbov) takes you on a fascinating tour of your own home – that you never knew. Also, if you love tomato juice – good for you! If you hate it, give it another try. If you still hate it, try it again on airplane. Listen and I'll explain why. https://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/why-tomato-juice-tastes-better-on-airplane And if you hate confrontation – you will LOVE this. Barbara Pachter, author of the book The Power of Positive Confrontation (https://amzn.to/2SOymsE) explains how confrontation works, why it gets out of control and how to use confrontation to get what you want every time – if you do it properly. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As a listener to Something You Should Know, I can only assume that you are someone who likes to learn about new and interesting things and bring more knowledge to work for you in your everyday life. I mean, that's kind of what Something You Should Know was all about. And so I want to invite you to listen to another podcast called TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done TED Talks. Well, you see, TED Talks Daily is a podcast that brings you a new TED Talk every weekday in less than 15 minutes. Join host Elise Hu.

She goes beyond the headlines so you can hear about the big ideas shaping our future. Learn about things like sustainable fashion, embracing your entrepreneurial spirit, the future of robotics, and so much more. Like I said, if you like this podcast, Something You Should Know, I'm pretty sure you're going to like TED Talks Daily. And you get TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts. used to sleep in the same bed? Against the wall, you put your unmarried daughter. Next comes the mother. Next comes the father. Next comes your son. Only then, at the outside, do you place any visitor. And you can see the whole point is to keep the men away from your unmarried daughters. Then, if you don't like tomato juice, you should. And if you still don't like it,

try drinking it on an airplane. And how to win at confrontation. When you meet someone's aggression with your own aggression, you're giving that person power over you to get you upset. And when you realize that, you can really work on training yourself to say a much more polite and powerful line. All this today on Something You Should Know. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked

to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like something you should know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan

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Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life today something you should know with mike carothers well uh the recent numbers are in and january was uh our all-time best month we were now averaging about 1.5 million downloads or 1.5 million listens a month. Just, this is really good. And as I've mentioned before, you know, we don't do a lot of advertising and promotion. Virtually all of our listener growth has been word of mouth, people like you telling their friends, and that is very much appreciated.

First up today, when you think of memory loss, you typically think of older people. But when does memory loss actually begin? Age 50? Age 60? Well, actually, memory loss begins at age 35. Huh? Huh? A study of about 50,000 people ages 10 to 89 was conducted by MIT and Massachusetts General Hospital. And here's what they found. Working memory, that's the ability to hold on to facts, names, or numbers for a short amount of time, peaks at age 25 and holds steady until about 35,

and then it starts to slowly decline. Long-term memory actually increases until about retirement age, and then it starts to decline. We also know that adults hold on to their memories longer today than in previous generations. So apparently we're doing something right, but no one's exactly sure what it is. Maybe it's education or diet or crossword puzzles or who knows.

But it is clear that the more that you exercise your brain, the stronger it gets. And that is something you should know. Huh? Your home is amazing. It is the result of so much history. Each room has a fascinating story to tell. And here to tell it is Lucy Worsley.

Lucy Worsley is chief curator at the Historic Royal Palaces. That's an independent charity that looks after the Tower of London, Hampton Court Palace, Kensington Palace State Apartments in London. And she is author of a book called If Walls Could Talk, An Intimate History of the Home. Hi, Lucy, and welcome. And so if you're the curator of all these grand palaces, why the interest in a little old home like mine? Well I spend my days working in some very grand buildings, royal palaces, working there as a curator and when I'm at home I actually live in a really boring modern flat so I'm used to exploring the history of really magnificent, amazing buildings. And I thought, well, can I do the same for my own flat in central London?

And I did discover that each of the rooms in even the most boring, modern building are really interesting. Each room's got a story to tell. Well, can we go through those rooms real quickly and you tell me a few fascinating things about each of those rooms? Sure. Well, the bathroom. Let's start in the bathroom. This is the room in the house that has the shortest history. 150 years ago, you would have washed yourself in your bedroom or the kitchen, anywhere that you could find convenient. And as part of my research, I tried out a lot of sort of practices from history,

if you like. And one of the things that I did was to follow a Tudor personal hygiene regime for a week. So I didn't use the bath or the shower or shampoo or toothpaste. And I discovered you can get pretty clean using just a basin of water and a cloth in your kitchen, in your bedroom. And the other advantage is that you never have to queue.

You can wash whenever you want to. The bathroom has such a short history, but when the bathroom did come into place, was it embraced right away? Well, what sets the pace in the development of the bathroom is really fears about health. And it's the great cholera epidemics in London of the Victorian period that make people get around to providing proper sewers, proper plumbing, water, flushing toilets, all that sort of thing. And actually, it's really interesting that this technology had existed for centuries. Elizabeth I had a flushing toilet, but she didn't use it. It didn't catch on because she didn't want to have to go to the toilet. She wanted the toilet to come to her. So she went on using the chamber pot. And while you've got lots of servants, it's just easier, kind of more convenient to do

that. It's only in the 19th century when we get this sort of nexus of plumbing and disease coming together that the modern bathroom is born. Before we go on and talk about specific rooms of the house, I would imagine that this idea of having different rooms for different functions, you know, we eat in the dining room, we sleep in the bedroom, that that's a relatively recent development. And this is a big point about the homes of the past. The rooms did not have functions. If you think of a medieval peasant's cottage, they had to do everything in just one space.

They used it for working and sleeping and eating and any leisure time that they had, although probably they didn't have very much. It's only as time goes on and people get richer and they get more possessions and they get more different ways to spend their time, their houses develop more and more different rooms. And in a funny sort of a way, if you think, well, my own flat is a studio apartment. It's just one space. And it's almost like history's come in a big circle, if you like. And it has quite a lot in common, my flat does, with a medieval peasant's cottage, where you would have had the fireplace in the middle. I've got my sort of cooking hob in the middle. I've got a sofa in there. In the daytime. I've got a sofa in there in the daytime. I sit on it at the nighttime. Sometimes my guests sleep on it. And in a funny

sort of way, in modern central London, I'm living the life of a medieval peasant. Oh, well, lucky you. Talk about the bedroom. Let's move over to the bedroom and some of the history of that. Well, today, bedrooms are private places, aren't they? You don't go into somebody's bedroom without knocking or asking permission. But 100 years ago, you'd have been quite happy to share your bedroom, even your bed, with other people, people like your colleagues from work. Think about that. And even with people that you didn't know at all,

necessarily. And this idea of privacy in the bedroom is really a development of modern times. For many centuries, people have been very happy to share their sleeping space, really for the want of any better alternative. If you think of a medieval house again, it's a great privilege to be warm and secure and inside and in company. Privacy was pretty low down the list of requirements. And when people were sleeping communally in these large beds all in together, special rules developed about the order in which you get in. This is a lost art now. But if you're sleeping as a family in a bed, against the wall, you put your unmarried daughter. Next comes the mother. Next comes the

father. Next comes your son. Only then, at the outside, do you place any visitor to your household like a traveling pilgrim or a tinker or somebody like that. And you can see the whole point is to keep the men away from your unmarried daughters. Well, how big were these beds where you're piling all these people in? Well, beds in the past were pretty large because, you know, privacy is not important, but smuggling up for warmth is pretty important. We've got some instructions from, I think, the 14th century. Let me just check. And they describe how to make a big bed, you get a big sack, you fill it up with leaves, and it's 12 feet broad. 12 feet. So that's pretty sizable. That's definitely for more than one person, more than two

people, I'd say. It's a bed for a family. And then some. Yeah, exactly. And bedding is quite sort of easy come, easy go. You sleep on your cloak, your bag of straw, or whatever, if you're lower down in society. But at the top of society, we do get the development of the sixth four-poster bed, which is like a little room within a room. And, you know, husbands and wives and children can go in there, they can shut the curtains, and they can be warm and snug. I saw in the book you talk about how medieval people sometimes slept sitting up,

which I don't think most people know. I didn't know that. Why would they sleep sitting up? Well, this has bothered me for a really long time. If you look at pictures of people from the past, portraits and what have you, they often look like they're sleeping in a sitting up position. And I guess I'd always assumed that they'd been put like this so the artist could show the face better. But I solved this little mystery

to my satisfaction when as part of my research, I spent the night in a Tudor bed. And Tudor beds were a wooden frame and then you got a rope and it goes up and down and side to side. It's like a sort of net. And Tudor beds were a wooden frame, and then you got a rope, and it goes up and down and side to side. It's like a sort of net. And before you get in, you have to tighten it up so that it doesn't sag too much. And some people say that this is the origin of the expression night-to-night sleep tight. Don't let the bedbugs bite. It's this process of tightening

up the bed strings before you get in. But inevitably, however tight you make it, it just sags. It's like sleeping in a hammock. And I only found out by actually getting in and trying it out that if you're sleeping in one of these beds, you are forced to adopt the position of a banana. You can't lie flat. So that's why I think they look like they're sitting up in bed. They're curved. Can you imagine, I mean, not being able to lie flat and sleep like I would like to think we're meant to sleep? That's amazing. Lucy Worsley is my guest. She is the chief curator at Historic Royal Palaces,

the independent charity that takes care of the Tower of London, Hampton Court Palace, Kensington Palace State Apartments, and more. And she is author of the book, If Walls Could Talk, An Intimate History of the Home. Contained herein are the heresies of Rudolf Buntwine, erstwhile monk turned traveling medical investigator. Join me as I study the secrets of the divine plagues and uncover the blasphemous truth that ours is not a loving God and we are not its favored children.

The Heresies of Rudolf Bantwine wherever podcasts are available. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more.

A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson, discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts.

So, Lucy, let's move now into the kitchen, which is frankly my favorite room, and I think over the last several decades has become kind of the focal point of the home. Well, the kitchen's been on a journey, really. The hearth, in Latin, it's called the focus. It was the center of the medieval dwelling. It was right bang in the middle of the room. It was the absolute hearth of the home. But as time went on and people got more money and leisure time and gentility, they didn't want the noise and the smoke and the smell of the cooking. So they pushed the kitchen out into a separate building, ideally. And this sort of reaches its high point in the 18th century when in the really grand country houses, you get the separate kitchen block

at some considerable distance from the main house. And the question people always ask is, well, was the food really cold? And it wasn't because they employed these special, strong, fast footmen who would run along the corridors with the heated dishes. In the 19th century, we get urbanism. There isn't space for these separate kitchens. So they get pushed down and under into the basement of tall, thin Victorian townhouses.

In the 20th century, we get the two world wars. We get the collapse of the whole infrastructure of domestic service. You know, all these people who kept the Victorian house running, the changes caused by the war mean that they don't want to work as servants anymore. And you get a sense after the Second World War that householders return to their own kitchens. It becomes a social space once again, a place for the family. At the same time, and this isn't coincidental, it becomes a much cleaner, more efficient, more pleasant place to be in. And I would say now, today, the kitchen in the room of most people's houses is the center of the home.

It's where the family hang out. It's where a lot of people spend their time. And that's a funny sort of return to the medieval once again. So in the past, were kitchens, I mean, did they have utensils like we have now? Did they make do with something else? Was it a safe place to be? Well, the absolute bog-standard basic utensils that medieval people had were their round-bottomed iron pot, which hung from a hook over the fire,

and into it you would put the mainstay of the medieval diet which is a kind of a soup you put in any grain any meat if you have it any vegetables and you keep it bubbling away in this sort of perpetual pottage as it's called because it's made in a pot and if you know the nursery rhyme peas pudding hot peas pudding cold peas pudding in the pot sometimes literally nine days old because you can keep on topping it up. So that's the sort of basic and that lasts for centuries. It's only with the arrival of the kitchen range, you know, the iron flat-topped construction, which is so much better for fuel efficiency, that the pot gives way to the saucepan, which has a flat bottom so it can sit neatly onto this new

flat hot plate on the top of the range. Now, these saucepans are made out of copper for good conductivity. But the problem with copper, if it reacts with the chemicals in certain foods, it creates a poison. So you've got to line your copper pan with a tin lining. And the job of the tinker is to go from door to kitchen door, repairing any scratches that people may get in the tin linings of their saucepans. That's just one example of the new type of utensil that comes in as the industrial revolution happens and as the new science of domestic economy is born. In Britain, we get, you know, the new factories and then the people who've been building factories and machines look at the home

and they think, actually, you know, we can do better than the open half. We can introduce the range. Actually, the range was an American invention. Count Rumford, his name was, he was the man who thought that I could put some sort of contraption into the open half to make the fuel go further. What about, you know, silverware and forks and knives and spoons and stirring things? And I mean, has that been around forever?

Sure. Henry VIII had a fork, but it was very novel. Until this point, people had been using just a knife and their fingers. So you would have your own personal knife, you'd carry it with you, you'd use it to slice your meat, and then you'd use the point to pick up those pieces and pop them into your mouth. So the fork begins to appear in the Tudor period. It really sort of catches on in the Stuart period. And then in the Georgian period in the 18th century, we get the industrial revolution, we get the consumer revolution. And suddenly there's a sort of great explosion into all the different kinds of knives and forks

and soup spoons and fish knives and silver teapots and all these different things that you can get for your table. The Georgian age is the age of bling and consumerism, if you like. It's a way for people to show off their status and their wealth through their dining tables and the way that they're dressed. And lastly, the living room. Well, the living room is a room that really interests me because I see a person's living room as a kind of a theater because this is the room in the house where you're

going to receive your guests if you have any so it's the room in which you want to sort of present your public face to the world and if you go into somebody's living room you look at their books you know you look at their photos you look at their ornaments all of that says a good deal about who they are their education their family their wealth So this is a room where people have concentrated their items of display, if you like. You can read somebody's living room like you can read a book all about their history. Over time, living rooms have got more comfortable. Textile items have increased. If you think about the Industrial Revolution is important here again.

If you think about a Tudor important here again if you think about a Tudor aristocrat maybe he can afford to have a painted portrait of his relatives well by the time we reach the 19th century there's now the technology of photography so anybody can afford to have lots of pictures of their relatives through the form of you know photos in frames so we see this trickling down of things that were luxuries in Tudor times and become sort of absolute basics in Victorian times. What's really interesting,

what really interests me about the 20th century is the way, you know, there's been this proliferation of junk and knickknacks and ornaments and stuff, and that all got swept away in the machine aesthetic of modernism.

Yeah, I don't know if it's true in Britain as it is here, but in many homes here, the living room has become almost a museum room where, you know, the kids aren't allowed in there, nothing really much happens in there. That all happens in the TV room. No, I think that living rooms, a lot of the time, aren't really for living, are they? They're rooms for best behavior, where you're going to invite your aged great aunt who's come around for tea or what have you. And real life actually takes place in other rooms where it doesn't matter if things get spoiled. So that's why they're like the best possible version of ourselves, aren't they?

And that doesn't necessarily bear any relation to real life. Yeah, but has that always been the case? Yeah, yeah, I believe that that has always been the case. Medieval people didn't necessarily have, you know, the leisure time, the spare money to have a special room just for showing off. It only comes when you've got wealth and leisure. But in the Tudor period, and then increasingly in the Victorian age, everybody is aspiring to having one of these rooms just for impressing the guests. When did people start cleaning their teeth? Well, I believe people have cleaned their teeth throughout history. In the 16th century, people were cleaning their teeth, but they weren't using brushes. They're using twigs with sort of stringy

ends. You know, certain bushes will give you a sort of proto brush that you can use. But I know because I've tried it out myself, that an effective Tudor way to do it is to get a cloth and to rub a mixture of salt and rosemary onto your teeth. Salt, because it's abrasive. Rosemary has a nice taste and also it does have antibacterial qualities. Then you gargle with vinegar and you feel fine. You don't need a brush. You don't need toothpaste. In the late 17th century, we do get the first tooth brushes being introduced. And in Georgian times, wow, it really takes off. And we get things like dentists coming in and human tooth transplantation.

This is a very short-lived Georgian craze. If you'd lost your teeth and you were rich, then you could buy the teeth of somebody who needed the money. They'd come to your house. The dentist would come to your house. Their teeth would be yanked out with pliers. They'd be popped into your own jaw, and hopefully it would take root. It didn't last all of that long because people realized that diseases could be transmitted through this root as well as actual live teeth. Secondly, there were concerns about abuse like there are with, you know, organ harvesting from

the developing world today. And thirdly, in the 19th century, we get the invention of rub up. So now false teeth become suddenly a whole lot more comfortable. And my last question is, you talked earlier about, you know, privacy not being particularly important, but did all these people just get undressed and dressed in front of each other? I mean, how did people ever get naked? It's a really interesting question. Just how private did people feel that their bodily functions were in the past. But let me tell you, in 17th century London, Samuel Pepys, he kept his clothes stool, which is his fancy toilet, basically,

he kept it in his drawing room. So, you know, that sounds really weird. And when Casanova visited 18th century London, he commented on the number of people that he could see just excreting everywhere in the bushes of St. James's Park. He found this rather uncouth. So certainly, there's not the idea that certain things should only be done behind closed doors that we have today. This is a relatively recent invention. And it's one of the privileges that we have of being developed in our countries, isn't it? If you go to other parts of the world, things are very different.

Things are much more like they were back in history. Well, it's so amazing to hear all the history and the stories that led up to where I live, you know, what has led up to the modern home. Thank you, Lucy. Lucy Worsley is Chief Curator at Historic Royal Palaces. That's the independent charity that looks after Kensington Palace State Apartments, the Tower of London, Hampton Court Palace, and others in London. And she's author of a book called If Walls Could Talk,

An Intimate History of the Home. And you'll find a link to that book in the show notes. Hey, everyone. Join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa Demonts, for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? Each week we deliver four fun-filled shows. In Don't Blame Me, we tackle our listeners' dilemmas with hilariously honest advice. Then we have But Am I Wrong?, which is for the listeners that didn't take our advice. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events. Then tune in to see you next Tuesday for our Lister poll results from But Am I Wrong?

And finally, wrap up your week with Fisting Friday, where we catch up and talk all things pop culture. Listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. Do you love Disney? Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show,

we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. There is nothing we don't cover. We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney-themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed, but you definitely need in your life. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. Raise your hand if you like confrontation. Yeah, most of us think of confrontation as something to avoid, at least until things get so bad that then we just have to explode

and then the confrontation turns into a fight and nothing gets accomplished. But what if there was a better way? Well, apparently there is, according to Barbara Pachter. Barbara Pachter is somebody I've known for a long time. She's an expert on business etiquette, and she is really good at helping people deal with other people. Several years ago, she wrote a book called The Power of Positive Confrontation, and more recently released an audio CD called The Power of Positive Confrontation, The Skills You Need to Handle Conflicts at Work, at Home, Online, and in Life.

Welcome, Barbara. Good to talk to you again. And so this idea of positive confrontation seems like, well, it seems like an oxymoron. Maybe it even seems impossible. It does sound that way, doesn't it? And yet it's not. It is an alternative for people who want to confront somebody in what I call a polite and powerful manner. And it's a way for you to put your words together so what comes out of your mouth when you choose to say something is more apt to be calm, direct, specific, and non-accusatory. Which, in my experience, is not typically the way confrontation goes, is it? People have a tendency to avoid confrontations.

They complain to others. They avoid the person. They pretend there's nothing wrong. But that's only one part of it. There is another whole group of people who become what I call aggressive confronters. They scream, they yell, they're the bully, they're the shouter, they pick fights. Very few people have ever been taught what I call this polite and powerful middle. There is an alternative for people, because when you think about it, what do you have to lose? If you don't say anything, nothing changes. If you explode, usually things get worse.

So what does that middle ground look like or sound like? The middle ground, the polite and powerful positive confrontation middle ground is you know what's bothering you. And that sounds easy, but it's not. And then you know what you want from the other person. And that doesn't always happen. We complain. We know what's

bothering us. But what do you think is going to solve it? Then you also need to look at it from the other person's point of view. And that's really hard because we only have a tendency to focus on ourselves. And then you choose to say something. And you choose it when you're calm. You make sure that you're in private, and you use some polite language. And that's likely to get you what? It's likely to, one, get you to feel good about yourself because you've said something. Oftentimes it can improve relationships because you've worked through the difficulties with somebody. And oftentimes the difficult behavior that you believe the other person is exhibiting will stop.

Think about it. If somebody is playing music too loudly, you can avoid it and not say anything, and the music continues. You can scream and yell, and you know what? The music may get louder. But if you choose to confront that person in a polite and powerful manner, it's very possible that they will lower their music, wouldn't you?

If someone was polite when they asked you to please lower the music, wouldn't you? Most people would. Yeah. In fact, it makes all the sense in the world, and yet when the music's playing too loud, you either just bang on the wall or go over there and scream at somebody, and yet, how would you react if someone did that to you? You'd think, what a jerk. Right. All they needed to do was to ask me nicely, and I would have certainly done it. A woman was reading the book in the library, and she sent me this email. She said,

I'm reading the book, and I decide to try your approach. What do I have to lose? So I walk up to this man and I say to him, I'm sure you don't realize, but I can hear your music at my table. Would you please lower the music? And she said, thanks. And he said, oh, no problem. I had no idea. You know, most people don't need to be jerks, don't want to be jerks. I mean, somebody cuts you off on the road. We automatically think that person's a jerk. And have you ever cut anybody off? No, never. I mean, we're not jerks. Most people are not out to get us. Many people become preoccupied and have no idea about how their behavior affects others. I imagine, too, a big part of the problem is, you know, when somebody's music's too loud or somebody cuts you off,

you're mad, and you get that, you know, when somebody's music's too loud or somebody cuts you off, you're mad. And you get that, you know, fight or flight, you get pissed off. Do you somehow have to control that? Well, first of all, it's important to people to realize that anger is not a bad emotion. Anger allows you to determine what you like and what you don't like. Because if you never got angry, you would like everything. Then you need to remember that there are consequences to bad behavior. You know, ultimately, you don't feel good about yourself when you lose it.

You may have that momentary high, but it doesn't last. You can destroy relationships. And oftentimes what you're trying to take care of, if it's loud music or so, loud speakerphone, the person, it can get worse. So when you think about the consequences, and there's a whole chapter in the book called Choice and Consequences, and I believe consequences are incredibly important.

Because when you think about what's going to happen if you stay aggressive or you stay passive, oftentimes knowing those consequences will give you the courage to try to move into what I call the polite and powerful middle. The polite and powerful middle is such a great phrase because that sounds like where I want to be. And very few of us were ever taught how to get there. And there are specific skills, learning verbal language, how to express yourself, not attacking somebody, but asking for what you want. Paying attention to your nonverbal skills, making sure you're not screaming, but also making sure you're speaking loudly enough so you are heard. Looking people in the eye, you know, having a pleasant facial expression.

I mean, this doesn't mean you have to be a wimp and it doesn't mean you have to be, you know, a bully to get what you want. There are alternatives. And it's right there in the middle. And it's right there in that polite and powerful middle. Why do you suppose people don't do this naturally? Well, it would seem to me the reason they don't do it naturally is because by the time it's time to confront somebody, there's so much anger there that the anger gets in the way of that polite and powerful middle you talk about.

I believe people don't do it naturally because they haven't learned a better way. We've been raised to be either quiet or we've watched other people be aggressive. And we haven't learned that there are specific skills that we can employ when somebody does something that upsets us. Now, there are some, you know, legitimate reasons why people choose not to confront. And I mean, if you're ever concerned for your safety, you know, don't let it go. You know, if you're in a dark alley, just keep on walking. So there, I mean, there's lots of considerations. But people use those considerations as excuses when there's really no reason not to say something. And we've all not said something and regretted it or obsessed about it later of, I wish I had said or something.

Right. And the problem is, I wish I had said is on one end, you're in the past. If you don't say anything, you don't confront. And unless you learn those skills to move into that middle, it's really easy to get nervous, not know what you want to say. If things don't go your way, all of a sudden you're screaming. And then you feel bad about yourself and you go back to being passive. And that doesn't accomplish much anyway. So why not take a little bit of time, learn the skills, and generally it's a much better outcome. So what's your advice though though, when the confrontation is happening

and you didn't really have time to plan for it and things are escalating and you need to control yourself when that's the last thing you want to do? The more people practice positive confrontation, the more faster they get with it. You know, what's bothering me? What do I want to ask the other person to do?

But then there's also phrases that can help you calm down when you find yourself beginning to lose it. You can say to that person, and if somebody says to you, gosh, you're an idiot. Why are you saying that? And we all want to explode back. Instead of doing that, there are some phrases that you can train yourself to use, such as, you know, help me to understand why you're calling me an idiot. I mean, it's like, oh, my gosh. All of a sudden, they don't have anything to say.

You know, when you meet someone's aggression with your own aggression, you're giving that person power over you to get you upset. And when you realize that, you can really work on training yourself to say a much more polite and powerful line. Well, if somebody's going to call me an idiot, it is going to be hard for me to, because it's easy to dismiss that person as, well, if they're calling me an idiot, they must be an idiot. So let's get screaming. Well, that's right. And what does that accomplish? Not much.

Not much, right. You may learn something when you say, well, help me understand. Why are you calling me an idiot? I didn't know about this. And then they'll go, oh, I'm sorry. I just lost it. I said, well, here's a book you ought to read. You won't lose it anymore.

So everyone should have a copy of your book in their pocket. Absolutely. And there's a technique I go in the book called the don't attack them, whack them approach. And I give out cards, and people do keep it in their front pocket. One man keeps it in his front shirt pocket, and it stops him from exploding. Because when you're ready to explode, you're going to just exaggerate everything. My boss is a jerk. My co-workers are lazy. And it really forces you to stay on the specific behavior you believe the person is exhibiting. And if you're

dealing with behavior, you're a lot less likely to lose it. So what is that card? What does that card say? Well, all right, it's the don't attack them, whack them approach to conflict. You don't attack people, you whack them with your words. And that's W-A-C. Each letter stands for something. The W stands for what. What's really bothering me? Define the problem. And again, you've got to be specific. You can't just say your co-worker is lazy. I mean, what does that mean? You need to define the behavior. Then you have the A. And the A is, what do you want to ask? Because A stands for ask the other person to do or change. What's going to solve the problem? Now, the W may sound difficult, but the A is even tougher. What do you believe will solve the problem?

And it has to be realistic, and also you have to have one. Generally, you have to have one, because having an A is a very empowering step. You know what you want. Now, you may not always get it, but you know what you want. And a lot of us, the people that are complainers, have a tendency to stay on the W, and all we do is complain about somebody's behavior. Well, you've got to get off of it, get to the A, what's going to fix it? And so the W, what's really bothering you?

The A, what do you want to ask the other person to do or change? And then just because you're asking for it doesn't mean you're always going to get it. Then there's the C, which is the check-in. Now that you've said what you wanted to say, you need to turn it over to the other person. And this is the passing of the baton step. And usually it's just, okay, what do you think? Can that happen? And then you, you know, sometimes get what you want.

Sometimes you talk about it. Sometimes the person gets defensive. And sometimes people get aggressive. Sometimes people get passive and they don't say anything and that's really tough. And sometimes people just say no. And you know what? If somebody has power over power over you, no means no. But at least you know where you stand. It does, I imagine though, it does take some practice to really instill this in your behavior.

Absolutely. In fact, let me say this now. Do not whack the big one tonight or tomorrow. You have to work on this slowly. Pick little conflicts of little consequence and build up your confidence and build up your knowledge over time. It seems to make so much sense, and yet it seems to be something that no one's ever, you know, other than, you know, do unto others as you would have them do unto you,

kind of turn the other cheek approach. No one's ever talking about this. Right. It's easy to be non-confrontational. It's easy to avoid, right? It's also easy to lose it. It's just a little harder to get into that polite and powerful middle in the beginning, because we haven't learned the skills. And do you ever still find yourself unable to stay in the polite and powerful middle? Of course, of course. We all can lose it at any given time. But what happens is, the more that happens, the more you critique yourself afterwards and say,

you know what, I really should practice what I preach. And had I said that, I would have had a much better outcome. Well, it's empowering to hear that, you know, you don't have to just hold it all inside, or then you hold it inside until you just have to explode and confront somebody in a really angry way, that there is a different way to handle it. And I think that's great. Barbara Pachter has been my guest.

Barbara is author of a book called The Power of Positive Confrontation, and you'll find a link to that book in the show notes. Do you like tomato juice? I actually love tomato juice, but my wife hates it. She says it's like drinking blood or something. But you should like tomato juice, and here's why. A study at China Medical University in Taiwan showed that women who drank one 9-ounce glass of tomato juice for two months saw a significant decrease in body fat and body weight.

And the good news is that they didn't change anything else about their diet or exercise. Other research shows that the added benefit is lycopene. That's the antioxidant that gives tomatoes their red color. Lycopene has been shown to build a better immune system, lower cholesterol, reduce your risk of developing prostate cancer, and protect against heart disease. So there's a lot of good reasons for drinking tomato juice. But here's the weird thing. If you don't like tomato juice, okay, no problem. Just get on an airplane and fly somewhere.

Because tomato juice, and I've heard this from a couple of different sources, tomato juice has been scientifically proven to taste better at 3,000 feet as opposed to sea level. And that is something you should know. Your comments are always welcome. You can leave your comments in a review. I always appreciate that. Or you can write me directly. My email address is mike at somethingyoushouldknow.net.

I'm Micah Ruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an

unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network called The Search for the Silver Lining, a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot.

Look for The Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts.