Something You Should Know - SYSK Choice: The Science of Fear & How to Be A Great Communicator

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Starting point is 00:00:27 Download June's Journey now on Android or iOS. Today on Something You Should Know. When you ask people what their favorite number is, what number comes up most and why? Then, what are you afraid of? Are your fears a permanent part of who you are? My fear of heights felt like it was a built-in part of me as much as my spine. And it's different now. It's not gone, but it's different. And I think it's worth keeping in mind that this stuff can feel permanent, and it isn't permanent.

Starting point is 00:00:59 Also, why are there phantom traffic jams, and how do you stop them? And so many factors influence how you communicate with others, like the volume at which you speak. What's exciting with volume is that it is directly correlated to your own confidence. So if I meet a person who isn't confident or they're nervous and I ask them to increase their volume by 20%, something mind-blowing happens. All this today on Something You Should Know. This is an ad for BetterHelp. Welcome to the world. Please, read your personal owner's manual

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Starting point is 00:02:03 Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome. Time once again for another episode of Something You Should Know, and I'm really glad that you've decided to spend some time here. I want to start today by talking about favorite numbers or lucky numbers. You probably have one. And if you ask people what is their favorite number, obviously you're going to get a lot of answers. But if you ask enough people, one number does seem to emerge. Math blogger and author Alex Belos, who's been a guest on this podcast,

Starting point is 00:02:47 he asked 44,000 people what their favorite number was, and it started to become clear that number seven leads the list of favorite numbers. It turns out that humans have been fascinated by the number seven for centuries. As far back as the earliest writings on Babylonian clay tablets, there's lots of talk of the number seven. And of course there are seven dwarfs, seven sins, seven seas. We like seven. But why do we like seven? What's so special about it? Well, Alex believes it's because it's kind of an oddball number. In other words, numbers that end in 0 or 5, like 10 or 20 or 100, they sound more like estimations,

Starting point is 00:03:32 and nobody wants their favorite number to sound like an average estimate. So 7, 7 is solid. It's a solid, oddball number, and that's why people like it. The second favorite number after 7 is 3, and after that is 8, which is lucky in Chinese. Number 13 actually made the top 10 of favorite numbers, and the number 1 came in 22nd. And that is something you should know. What scares you?

Starting point is 00:04:09 What are you afraid of? Spiders? The dark? Clowns? Heights? Death? Public speaking? There are a lot of things to be afraid of.

Starting point is 00:04:19 Some fears are easy to handle. If you're afraid of heights, you just avoid high places and the problem goes away. But other fears can really get in the way of life. And then there's that feeling of fear. You felt it. What is it? And how do you control it? Here to discuss the fascinating topic of human fear is Eva Holland. She is a writer who's had to deal with her own fears, so she decided to really explore the science of fear. Where do fears come from? What purpose do they serve? And how do you cope with them? She's the author of a book called Nerve, Adventures in the Science of Fear. Hey, Eva, welcome to Something You Should Know. Hi, thanks so much for having me. So what got you interested in this? Why did you decide to look at the topic of human fear?

Starting point is 00:05:19 It came out of personal experiences for me, really, dealing with a fear of heights and then sort of an acquired fear of winter driving after a couple car accidents. There were all these pieces of my life that I wanted to understand. And it seemed to me the way to do that was to try to figure out what was happening in my brain and my body when I felt afraid. And so do you consider yourself a fearful person? I do. Yeah. Which doesn't always fit kind of my persona in my writing. I write a lot about outdoor adventure and extreme sports, but I do, or I should say, I guess I did consider myself a fearful person before I started working on this book. And so when you look at the science of fear, I mean, what is fear? I guess it's an emotion, right?

Starting point is 00:05:57 It is an emotion, but it's also a physical process, a physical reaction, which was interesting for me to learn about. The best definition I found in my research was from a 19th century psychologist who said fear is the anticipation of pain. And in scientific terms, what that means is that it's a response to perceived threat. And it's our body trying to prepare to either, you know, the classic phrase is fight or flight. Scientists now sometimes say fight, flight, or freeze. But it's our body preparing us to respond to the threat. And so that's why we get, you know, the racing heart and the goosebumps and the, you know, dilated pupils, potentially all these physical symptoms of our body gearing up to say,

Starting point is 00:06:29 let's deal with this. We're afraid, let's figure it out. Well, I like that definition you gave a moment ago that fear is the anticipation of pain. And it does seem that some people just are more fearful and consequently very cautious than others. There's a spectrum. Some people seem to live life without a care in the world. They're afraid of nothing and other people seem afraid of a lot of things. And I'm wondering what determines where you fall on that spectrum. Most of us are somewhere, you know, in the middle. Is it experiences we have or is it just part of who we are and our personality?

Starting point is 00:07:11 What determines where people fall on that scale? Interesting question. Yeah, I think it's a mix. My understanding from the research is that there's a certain amount of nature involved in terms of whether we're more inherently fearful or cautious or anxious. The phrase some psychologists use is inhibited, inhibited personalities. And then there's also a piece that's based on our experiences. If we've experienced trauma, if we've sort of acquired phobias. So it really is a mixture and it is a spectrum.

Starting point is 00:07:44 Yeah. And what's interesting to me is how some people are very afraid of some things that you might not be afraid of and not afraid of things that scare the crap out of you. And it's, it seems so almost random that, you know, like I, I don't like roller coasters, but I like other adventurous things, but I hate roller coasters. They scare me to death. I don't know. Well, yeah, I guess I sort of know why, but it's interesting how it just seems to be like throwing darts at a dartboard. Oh, I'm going to be afraid of that. Yeah, it can feel really random. And I think to a certain

Starting point is 00:08:20 extent, it is. Part of it is it's such a fine line between fear and pleasure. In some cases, you know, some people find that stomach falling away from you, feeling of a roller coaster to be a thrill. And for you, it's horrible. And our emotions sort of operate so tightly that it can be hard to figure out. Part of the thrill is the sick feeling for the people that enjoy it. It's not that they experience it completely differently than you do. They just process it differently. We have fears, though, that enjoy it. It's not that they experience it completely differently than you do. They just process it differently. We have fears though, that, that are irrational.

Starting point is 00:08:49 You know, there's the, the fear, well, maybe not all irrational, but like the fear of flying. People are very afraid of flying and yet the chances of anything happening are so slim and much slimmer than if you were in a car. Whereas, you know, the fear of your stomach dropping in a roller coaster, that's a real thing that happens to you. And that's what I do my best to avoid. But the fear of flying is, well, I guess if the plane does fall from the sky, that's a real problem. But it seems like an unnecessary and odd fear because there's really not much to be afraid of. Right. There's category errors that we make sometimes in terms of like, yes, something could be dangerous in theory, but the risk assessment piece is missing.

Starting point is 00:09:36 I give the example of being afraid of bears. You know, if you're lying awake in your tent at night in a campground in bear country, it's probably reasonable to worry a little bit about bears. It's very reasonable to worry about a bear if you see a bear. But it's less reasonable to worry about bears if you're lying awake in your tent at night and you're not in bear country. So it's so hard to parse, you know, what's a real threat and what isn't. And that's really what the process is that happens in our brains bodies is, is us trying to sort of parse the threat level. And, and we're not that good at it. It turns out, which explains, um, you know, stuff like the reaction to, to airplanes versus cars. We should all be scared to get in cars every day, but we

Starting point is 00:10:18 aren't. Yeah. Well, see, I never thought of it that way, but really our ability to assess risk sucks. I mean, we're not very good at it. Yeah, most of us are not that good at it. We err on the side of either being oblivious to certain risks or too worried about things that aren't that risky. I came across a researcher who did some really interesting research into the question. She framed her research question as, who would make the best Navy SEAL? And she thought it would be, you know, the bravest, the most impervious to fear, the people who can soldier through when they're terrified.

Starting point is 00:10:55 But it turns out the best Navy SEAL is someone who can accurately assess the threat level that they're facing and not overreact and not underreact. She made a really important distinction between, you know, being brave and being reckless. So what is it when people say, for example, they're afraid of spiders? Are they really afraid of spiders? Is it fear or are they just grossed out by spiders? Because being grossed out is not the same as being afraid. Fear and disgust do share a lot in common as well. They're often sort of studied in relation to each other. I think what a person is saying when they're saying they're afraid of spiders isn't that they have a rational thought process.

Starting point is 00:11:42 It's what they're expressing is that they have that physical reaction. They see a spider and despite their understanding that they're perfectly safe around, you know, a harmless house spider, they have that physical fear reaction. Their body triggers their threat response and they can't control it. That's very unpleasant. So it's not just grossed out exactly. It is a fear response, but it's not one that's grounded in any true sense of threat. It's an irrational reaction. And it's one that a lot of people struggle with. And you say fear and disgust are closely associated. So is fear and anxiety. What's the difference? they're really hard to separate. The classic distinction is that fear is a response to an objective threat, a clear and present danger. And anxiety is about responding to a hypothetical or a perceived or a potential threat. But that gets really messy. I read a book that gave the example of a clear and present threat to be a terrorist or the nuclear bomb. But those are

Starting point is 00:12:48 specters that produce all sorts of anxiety in people who aren't currently facing either one too. The people had decades of anxiety about the bomb, even if it was never likely to be dropped on them. So I think it's a really difficult thing to separate. Again, coming back to our sort of not ideal threat assessment skills, it's so hard to separate clear and present danger from potential danger. And so, as you said, we're not particularly good at assessing risk or fear, but when we feel fear, are we pretty good at handling it? It doesn't seem, it doesn't seem like it. I think we can be it. Um, my experience, ultimately the conclusion that I came to, I don't know if there's a way to sort of train ourselves to respond better, but what I found ultimately

Starting point is 00:13:42 sort of distinguished my true fear experiences from my anxiety experiences is that when I was facing a real threat, I was sort of driven to respond in a really sort of clearired in anxiety, I felt fuzzy. And that was the closest I could come to a useful distinction between when to listen and when to ignore is sort of fuzzy fear versus sharp fear. And I know that's quite mushy. It's not exactly scientific, but I do think we can learn to listen to our instincts. I think sometimes we try to explain away our fear and say, oh, it's nothing, it's nothing, because it's embarrassing to be afraid, you know, you don't want to be seen to be overreacting. But I think it's worth thinking about listening to our bodies when they do react and trying to say, is this something I should listen to? Or is this my body leading me astray? I want to hear a little bit more about your experience. I'm speaking with Eva Holland. She is a writer and author of the book Nerve, Adventures in the Science of Fear. Bumble knows it's hard to start conversations. Hey, no, too basic. Hi there. Still no. What about hello, handsome? Who knew you could give yourself the ick? That's why Bumble is changing how you start conversations.

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Starting point is 00:16:26 on balconies. It was if I felt like I could fall. And it took me a long time to understand that. It was as much a fear of falling as a fear of heights. And so if I was on a steep hiking trail or maybe a balcony with kind of a flimsy railing, anything where, however unreasonably, I felt like I could sort of tumble to my death, I would be unable to breathe. I would be sort of gasping for breath and picturing my own doom over and over again, sort of full panic mode. But it only happened every few years because I knew I didn't like the feeling. Like you, avoiding roller coasters, I would avoid, you know, steep hills or the monkey bars or this sort of thing, ladders. And, and so I didn't put the pieces together for a long time. And it was only really when I started working on this project

Starting point is 00:17:15 that I sort of understood what had been happening to me this whole time. And that was interesting to, to realize that you could have, you know, something resembling a phobia your whole life and not even really realize it because we're so good at starting to avoid the things that we fear that sometimes we can miss the pattern. But it seems to me, like, as I said, I have this fear of roller coasters. I have no desire to fix that. There's no motivation for me to want to do that. I'm just fine standing here while everybody else is flying around in circles because it's not a fear that gets in my way, particularly, although sometimes people call me chicken or whatever, but you know what I mean? A lot of fears, I'm fine. I don't need to fix that. I think a lot of fears are fine the way

Starting point is 00:18:04 they are. We don't need to, you know, it's a lot of work and it can be painful to try to undo these patterns. And I don't think anybody's obliged to do it just on principle. The reason why I decided I wanted to fix my fear of heights is because what it was costing me was more than what I wanted to give up. Specifically, I had moved to a mountain community. I had developed this real love of the wilderness, hiking. I was working in extreme sports and outdoor adventure in my writing. And all my friends were mountain biking and hiking and climbing all the time. And I just didn't want to be unable to go along. I wrote about a woman in my book who was afraid

Starting point is 00:18:42 of mice. And if she only had her reaction when mice were actually around, you know, that would be more reasonable. But she was terrified of mice all the time in her own home, you know, mouse free. She couldn't walk around barefoot. She was just completely paranoid about mice being, you know, in her shoes or on her feet or, um, and so that felt like too much to her. I think it was sort of ruining her life. You know, it was ruining her night's sleep every night, um, thinking about the mice running around. And so people have to make an assessment if they're going to try to do this work to unravel a phobia, for instance, um, what is it costing you? And, and is that more than you're willing to pay? You know, it seems that the mice example is a good example of this, that like the older we get, the harder it becomes to change. That if that woman had been introduced to mice when she was two years old, three years old, and hadn't had these preconceived notions of how horrible they were, she may have never developed that fear because she'd been around them, but because something else happened and she probably wasn't around them, that in her mind she created this fear of them. She was an interesting case because she saw her mom freak

Starting point is 00:20:00 out about a mouse running across her bare feet when she was a kid. She was a kid. She wasn't predisposed to be freaked out by this mouse running across her bare feet, but her mom, you know, screamed. And, and, and so she internalized that this is something to be terrified of. And we can, we can pass on our anxieties and fears to our children in that way, which is, you know, one more thing for parents to worry about. I know that's not what anybody needs, but it can be something that you sort of absorb from the reactions of people around you as well. Yeah. Yeah. That's probably really true because it's, it does seem like I can imagine if you're a little kid and you see your parents who you, you know, they're your protectors and

Starting point is 00:20:42 you see them freaked out by something, then that, that, that must be a real thing to be afraid of. Right. Yeah. That must be really scary if, if, if you're scared of it. Yeah. What have an, uh, aren't, aren't there some natural fears that humans have where like we're afraid of falling or aren't there some just fears we're all programmed to be afraid of? Yeah. There's some that are sort of deep, deep, you know, laid into us through evolution. I think some of the classics are, you know, heights, the dark, really cramped small spaces, and things like snakes or spiders. These are the things that would have would have killed us thousands of years ago. Now it's, you know, cars and cancer. But in the old days, it was, it was, you know, going too deep into the wrong cave or, or, or, or a snake or, or that sort of

Starting point is 00:21:31 thing. And so those are some of the, the harder ones to shed because they're just encoded within us in a way. And if you have a fear that you really, it is in your way, you're afraid of mice or you're afraid of whatever it is and you would like to not be, is there any sort of like one size fits all kind of approach to fixing that? There's not a one size fits all, but there are a lot of different ways to tackle it. I tried three different therapies. One was a drug treatment. One was a kind of a classic exposure therapy, sort of gradual immersion. And one was a more trauma-based therapy called EMDR, eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. So there's a lot of options out there. Some of them are more DIY. I was able to go out and buy a book on how to do exposure therapy

Starting point is 00:22:23 myself. But there's a lot of knowledge in the medical community, too, about how to tackle these things. And it can seem sort of embarrassing or not like a big enough deal to say, oh, I don't need therapy for this. But there are options to sort of work through these things. And different treatments will have different effectiveness for different people, which can be hard and frustrating. But I do think it's worth looking into, you know, if you're feeling like your fear is constraining you

Starting point is 00:22:50 and making your life smaller than you want it to be, I do think there are options available, and it's worth looking into what might work for you. It seems often that people's fears get wrapped up in their identity. You know, Aunt Mabel doesn't like spiders, so make sure there's no spiders around. And Uncle Fred is afraid of flying, so whenever it's time to go somewhere, you know Fred's going to take the car, he's never going to get on a plane.

Starting point is 00:23:15 And there's no discussion about it because Fred's fear of flying is part of who he is. And in some ways it feels like either it isn't very changeable, or it isn't something they want to change. And so how changeable is it? I mean, is it part of who people are? Or are fears, if you're really willing to take a shot at it, you can probably do something about it? It's way more changeable than I realized. I, to be totally honest, you know, I expected to be writing kind of a mushy epilogue to my book where I said, well, I didn't change my fears at all, but I sure learned a lot of science along the way, you know,

Starting point is 00:23:56 that was what I expected to be ending my book with. And I, and my life was completely transformed by the work I did. If I'm, you know, not being too dramatic to say that I, my fear of heights felt like it was a built in part of me as much as my spine. And and it's different now. It's not gone, but it's it's different. And I think it's worth keeping in mind that this stuff can feel permanent. And it isn't permanent. Well, everybody's afraid of something sometime. And it's interesting to understand how it works and that there's help if it's getting in the way. Eva Holland has been my guest. She is a writer, and the name of her book is Nerve Adventures in the Science of Fear. And you'll find a link to that book in the show notes.

Starting point is 00:24:41 Thank you, Eva. Thanks for coming on the podcast. Fantastic. Thanks so much. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like something you should know,

Starting point is 00:24:57 you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue.

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Starting point is 00:25:48 There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and

Starting point is 00:26:22 a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson, discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts.

Starting point is 00:27:01 You probably don't think about this a lot, but when you talk with someone, or in a small group, or to a large group, there's a lot going on. Your message, what you are conveying to people, is coming through the words you say, how you say them, how you gesture, your facial expressions, even the way you do or don't tilt your head. All of those things and more make up your message. Some people do this all very well and it looks almost effortless. But almost all of us could improve some of our communication skills by doing a few things differently. And the person who really understands this is David J.P. Phillips. He spent seven years studying 5,000 speakers to discover the skills that made great communicators so great. He's done TED Talks on the subject, and he has other videos, and he has courses to help people become better communicators. His website is

Starting point is 00:28:01 davidjpfillips.com, and he joins me to discuss how all of us can be better communicators in all situations. Hi, David. Welcome. Thank you. I would guess that most people think of themselves as pretty good communicators. I mean, they get through the day. They talk with people. They ask questions. They answer questions.

Starting point is 00:28:22 They have conversations. It all seems to work out okay. Do you not think people are pretty decent communicators? I'd say no. A lot of people are fluent in their native language, but they're not fluent in communication. Far from it often. Because they're doing or not doing what? What is it that's causing them not to be good communicators? As you know, I studied 5,000 speakers for seven years to find 110 common skills we all use when we communicate. And the average person makes use of about 30 of them, which means that it invites loads of misunderstandings and unclarity in their presentation or communication that they do.

Starting point is 00:29:06 So what do you think is one of the most important things people miss that could really make their communication better if they did it? What could they do? Well, I'd say that one thing that you do as well is pace changes, where you use your base pace is fairly slow, which means that you signal importance in what you say. Our brain believes that when people say things quickly, we believe that what is being said is of less value because the person wants to hurry past it. It devalues what you're saying and being able to in a presentation go from really slow to being a lot quicker when you speak through passages just creates that variation that people

Starting point is 00:29:55 need i usually say this hey you as a communicator and presenter you the conductor you tell the person in the audience what they're supposed to listen to through your voice. Well, and also along those same lines is the power of, I think, the pause is that when people who just talk a mile an hour, but if you're talking and you stop talking, even people who are looking down at their phones will look up to see why you stop talking and you get their attention back. It's poetry, man. That is poetry. I love it. That's one of my favorites. Definitely. And yet people are afraid to pause, I think, because they think they'll lose the audience when it actually has, I think, the opposite effect much

Starting point is 00:30:41 of the time. Oh, yeah. The absolute opposite. That's the conundrum here because when you're an amateur, you hate pausing because it puts you in the center. But when you're a professional, you love them. You're like 5,000 people in front of you and you launch a pause

Starting point is 00:30:55 and you look at every single pair of eyes in there and you absorb their energy and then you launch into the world word of the number it's it's beautiful let's talk about one communication problem that that i'm very aware of i hear it a lot when i interview people for this podcast and that's filler words things like um uh you know because i i have to edit out some of them because people there are some people who use them so much that it really gets in the way of their message saying um, ah, or you know, or there are other ones too, right? Super common, super common.

Starting point is 00:31:41 And we commonly use them when we don't know what we're going to say, lose train of thought, or when we lie. So it's usually not a good thing to have in your language. And my guess is, and my experience is, that people don't really know that they use filler words like um and ah, or at least they don't know they do it as much as they do it. Well, I've been coaching Michael for 20 years and I'd say that 99.9% don't know about them. And even if you tell them that they do them, they don't know. So you have to make them aware of that they have them before you can actually remove them through coaching. They're so unaware of it. And how do you get people to stop it? I have figured out that the most efficient method that I've ever found was that your brain finds it easier to switch from one behavior to a different behavior, like stop smoking, start chewing gum. And the same thing goes for hair. Stopping doing filler sounds is difficult, but exchanging it for something else is easier.

Starting point is 00:32:40 So the trick is to, as soon as the filler sound comes you do a breathe in and inhale and it shouldn't be audible you shouldn't go but instead a small silent breathe in and when you when you do that instead of just stopping you remove it much much easier and faster so demonstrate for me that the before and after oh well you can't actually then hear it if i were to say hey uh michael it would still it would be an inhale instead so hey michael how are you doing well i have certainly noticed people who say um uh you know a lot because often when i'm interviewing people they say it i remember i think it was i don't know a year or so ago ago, I actually counted and basically in a 20-minute segment, this person said, um, ah, or you know. I can't remember the exact number now, but it was hundreds of times.

Starting point is 00:33:38 So I agree with you. I think it's really important that people try to be more aware of that because it does seem to muddy the message when you're umming and ahhing and you knowing all the time. Let's talk about gestures. They seem to be important not only in public speaking, but even when you're talking to people in a small group or one on one. Gestures mean a lot. And yet we don't think too much about them. They just sort of happen. Far, far, far longer before we got the spoken word, we use gestures to communicate with each

Starting point is 00:34:10 other. And it's so ingrained in us. I do this demonstration in my TED talk where I use the opposite gestures to what I'm saying. And it just blows people's minds because they can't hear what I'm saying. They can just see my gestures. Describe as best you can, since we can't see it, what you mean by your message is saying one thing and your gestures are doing the opposite. So, yeah, imagine if I speak to you and I say, hey, Michael, I'd like to invite you to a party. And at the same time, I am doing thumbs down and I'm showing my entire palm is showing stop stop don't come I do loads of those kind of gestures at the same time as I'm inviting you to the party and there is no way that the message coming across to you will be positive because the gestures say the opposite what I found absolutely fascinating after doing this for so long was that I found

Starting point is 00:35:03 something called synchronicity which has to to do with this. And it goes like this, that when your gestures, your body language, your face, your voice, and your words all say exactly the same thing, then we love the person. There is no discrepancy. But you know the feeling when you walk into a room and you get this gut feeling like something is off with the person. I can promise you to 100% that one of these five layers are out of sync with that person when they communicate. And that creates so much misunderstanding. Nate Hagenshaw, So what's the advice then with gestures? What generally is the thing to do?

Starting point is 00:35:38 Jens Nielsen I'd say that when you've prepared your presentation and you're ready to go, or let's say you've prepared your presentation, your slides, your structure, your script, then you add gestures. That's kind of one of the last things that you do. And what you then add is these five different gestures. You use signs, so any kind of sign language or signs with your hand that can show like thumbs up for instance you add what is called imaginary props imaginary props could be like so i called my wife and then you pick up a phone and you pretend that you're holding a phone with your fingers and then you have drawings so you draw me there whatever you're talking about

Starting point is 00:36:21 and then number four is progression so for instance q1 q2 q3 q4 and you show that with your hand as you progress through each of these and then the fifth one is effect which means that that gave me goosebumps these are the five main kind of categories for gestures which you then apply to your presentation talk about facial gestures facial expressions and and the importance of them and how to do it so you have about 40 different muscle combination in your face which can produce approximately 5 000 nuances of facial expressions it's only maybe one in 20 that has that naturally. 19 of us actually need to practice facial expressions. Otherwise, we're missing out on the main way of communicating through video.

Starting point is 00:37:13 So people are communicating through Zoom and Team and Skype at the moment, and their face is dead on in center. But 19 out of 20 aren't using the primary communication skill in that case. Another thing I notice is people's volume because loudness, volume sends a message. If you talk loud, you're saying something. And if you talk soft, that says something. What's exciting with volume and the volume that you speak in is that it is directly correlated to your own perceived confidence so if i meet a person who isn't confident or they're nervous and i ask them

Starting point is 00:37:54 to increase their volume by 20 something mind-blowing happens and that is that just by increasing your volume by 20 it affects about 15 of the other skills. And it makes the person more confident. So immediately, when you increase your volume by 20%, you can see the person straightening their spine, they stand more stable, their head becomes straight instead of angled, their emphasis become better and stronger, and so on and so forth. So that's a pretty cool one. So anybody who feels less confident can increase their volume by 20% if they're not already screaming, of course. When we think about speakers, speakers speak, but what other tactics, strategies, tricks

Starting point is 00:38:38 can people use or do you use that kind of spice up whatever it is you're saying? I love using sound effects. Stand-up comedians usually do it i'm not a stand-up comedian but i love doing things like when i show a chart in powerpoint i go where i go and then you go to your computer and you go, and using sound effects really, really makes your entire experience as a speaker. It just, it's just more fun and it's more entertaining and it definitely comes through in a better way. So that's one of my favorites. And the second one I wanted to mention, which could be inspiring to some as well, is self-laughter. And that is that just before you say something that should be perceived as funny, you go, I'm just going to

Starting point is 00:39:33 tell you this one, Michael. And then you launch into it. And that little self-laughter increases the anticipation of laughter. And it makes people more inclined to laugh at what you're going to say. So it's a cool little trick that you can use as well. I know you talk about, and you're one of the few people that I've heard actually discuss it specifically as a topic, and that's the melody of your voice and the importance of changing the melody. So talk about that and explain what you mean by melody. But it means that you have a standard melody so you speak in a particular melody But then it's important that you sometimes go into a different melody to say that this is important and perhaps we could have a look At these different things

Starting point is 00:40:18 Because they could be of importance to you you see melody when changed creates focus and contrast and meaning. And people who are good at shifting melody can spellbind people. It's just, again, one of many skills, but it's a pretty cool one to use as well. And I just want to summarize it saying this as well. We've been talking about public speaking and on stage, Michael, but every single one of these can be used in real life. Every single one. You know, when you go to dinner and you're having a conversation using self-laughter or using facial expressions, make a heck of a difference. Even in your relationship.

Starting point is 00:41:03 Why do you think there's so many misunderstand many misunderstandings so easily I think the major misunderstanding is because the the way you say it does not correspond to how you say it the words that you used so the synchronicities off I know body language is certainly important when you speak and and someone once pointed out to me that you'll you'll never see like a professional speaker up on a stage with their arms crossed because that sends a message to the audience. But often you'll see people talking with each other or even in small groups with their arms crossed. It's probably one of the most common ones, you know, that we cross our arms. And the thing is, when you cross your arms is that you then leave the evaluation of why you crossed your arms to the person that you're speaking to so the other

Starting point is 00:41:50 person on the other side now has to figure out why did you cross your arms and they do that consciously or subconsciously and they might came to the come to the conclusion that you're bored or that you're negative or that you don't want to listen but it could actually mean that you're bored or that you're negative or that you don't want to listen but it could actually mean that you were just cold or you just anatomically you wanted to move position so you can't read too much into those body languages if you don't combine them with micro expressions and facial expressions so that you can like measure all the layers at the same time but the point of this is that you are responsible for what you send out. So as a speaker, no, you can't cross your arms. As a speaker, you've got to be aware

Starting point is 00:42:31 of what you do with your arms because they're constantly sending a message. And the clearer that message is, the less the audience has to think, does he mean this? Does it mean that? I know one of your skills, you talk about the head tilt and I like that one. So, so explain what you mean by tilting your head. Well, it goes like this, that when a person, when I, if I were to see you now, Michael, and you would tilt your head slightly to the right or the left, doesn't matter, that would signal a higher level of active listening. That would then make me more confident in how I can speak to you and how much I can speak to you. So the tilt of the

Starting point is 00:43:15 head signals active listening skills. Now, I've met so many people that I've coached who don't have it. They've never picked it up. So then I say to them, hey, try tilting your head just slightly to the left or the right the next time you want a person to speak to you. And they come back to me and they say, hey, I'm blown away. How can this be so powerful? And the interesting thing with good listeners is that they're more likeable. So people like good listeners because there's nothing that people love more than speaking about themselves. And if they've got somebody listening actively to that,

Starting point is 00:43:50 they love that person. So tilting your head and nodding your head, if you combine those two, well done. Well, and I think it's worth repeating that, yes, these skills, they may sound as if they're for professional speakers speaking to a group on a stage kind of thing. But all of these skills can be used in one-on-one communication or in small groups, any situation where you want to come across as a better speaker. My guest has been David J.P. Phillips. He is a communications expert. He spent seven years studying 5,000 speakers to

Starting point is 00:44:27 discover what makes a great communicator. He has a TED Talk on this, and I'll put a link to the TED Talk in the show notes for this episode. He also has a website where you can learn more about his work. The website is davidjpfillips.com, and there'll be a link to that in the show notes as well. Thanks, David. I'm sure you have found yourself in a phantom traffic jam, you know, when traffic comes to a stop for no reason. I have often sat at a complete standstill on an interstate highway and wondered, how can this be? How does traffic on a multi-lane highway come to a complete stop? Well, it turns out it's because someone up ahead of you slowed down, and then the car behind him or her slowed down,

Starting point is 00:45:16 and then the next car behind them slowed down, and it moves backwards in a wave until actually somebody has to stop. Usually me, it seems. And there is this professor at MIT who has been researching this, and according to him, a big part of the problem is tailgating. In fact, if we all did something called bilateral control, that is, we increase the distance between us and the car in front so that you have the same amount of space between you and the car in front of you

Starting point is 00:45:48 and you and the car behind you. That would reduce phantom traffic jams a lot because that extra space would take up the slack when people slowed down so you didn't have to slam your brakes on and then the guy behind you slams his brakes on and back it goes. This professor says that under reasonable conditions today, you can get 1,800 cars per lane per hour to pass by a certain point on a highway. With bilateral control, you could almost double that,

Starting point is 00:46:17 and you might save at least some of the $121 billion a year that traffic congestion costs the U.S. economy. And that is something you should know. Often at this point in the podcast, I ask you to leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts because it helps us, and someone said, well, so how does it help? How could that possibly help? Well, the way it was explained to me is that Apple has this algorithm that uses the velocity, the volume, and the quality of the ratings and reviews to approximate how good a podcast is, how good a

Starting point is 00:46:52 quality podcast it is, and how that algorithm treats your podcast will help determine where it shows up in the rankings on Apple Podcasts. So a great way to support this podcast is to add your review to the volume, velocity, and quality of the ratings and reviews on Apple Podcasts. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Hey, hey, are you ready for some real talk and some fantastic laughs? Join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa D. Mons for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? We're serving up for hilarious shows every week designed to entertain and engage and, you know, possibly enrage you.

Starting point is 00:47:31 In Don't Blame Me, we dive deep into listeners' questions, offering advice that's funny, relatable, and real. Whether you're dealing with relationship drama or you just need a friend's perspective, we've got you. Then switch gears with But Am I Wrong?, which is for listeners who didn't take our advice and want to know if they are the villains in the situation. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events and present situations that we might even be wrong in our lives.

Starting point is 00:47:55 Spoiler alert, we are actually quite literally never wrong. But wait, there's more. Check out See You Next Tuesday, where we reveal the juicy results from our listener polls from But Am I Wrong? And don't miss Fisting Friday, where we catch up, chat about pop culture, TV and movies. It's the perfect way to kick off your weekend. So if you're looking for a podcast that feels like a chat with your besties, listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Starting point is 00:48:21 New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network called The Search for the Silver Lining, a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. Look for The Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Something You Should Know - SYSK Choice: The Science of Fear & How to Be A Great Communicator

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