Something You Should Know - SYSK Choice: The Secrets of Motivation & How Effortless Conversation Works

Episode Date: October 24, 2020

Is it true that nice guys finish last? Sure, there are a lot of successful nice guys but there are a lot of successful jerks too. So which is it? The answer may actually lie somewhere in between. This episode begins with some interesting insight into that http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/06/why-it-pays-to-be-a-jerk/392066 What is the best way to motivate people? Traditional thinking has been that carrots and sticks – in other words rewards or punishments are the best way to get people to do things. Well that may work but there are other ways that are better says Daniel Pink, author of the book, Drive: The Surprising Truth about What Motivates Us (https://amzn.to/2LNHze7). Daniel joins me to offer some advice on how to successfully motivate yourself and others. Friends are important but I bet you didn’t know just HOW important. Let’s put it this way… research shows not having a strong social network is equal to smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. And that’s just one of the things I discuss about the importance of friends. http://www.rd.com/slideshows/friends-facts/#slideshow=slide2 Are you one of those people who hates small talk? Or perhaps you find it difficult to talk to strangers and connect with people. Or maybe you just wish you were better at conversation. If so, you need to listen to Jill Spiegel, author of the book, How to Talk to Anyone About Anything.(https://amzn.to/2t6tIb3). Jill is an expert when it comes to striking up conversations and making them count. Incidentally, she is also the great granddaughter of Joseph Spiegel, founder of the famous Spiegel mail order catalog. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As a listener to Something You Should Know, I can only assume that you are someone who likes to learn about new and interesting things and bring more knowledge to work for you in your everyday life. I mean, that's kind of what Something You Should Know is all about. And so I want to invite you to listen to another podcast called TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done TED Talks. Well, you see, TED Talks Daily is a podcast that brings you a new TED Talk every weekday in less than 15 minutes. Join host Elise Hu. She goes beyond the headlines so you can hear about the big ideas shaping our future.

Learn about things like sustainable fashion, embracing your entrepreneurial spirit, the future of robotics, and so much more. Like I said, if you like this podcast, Something You Should Know, I'm pretty sure you're going to like TED Talks Daily. And you get TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts. Today on Something You Should Know, if it's important to

be nice to people to be successful, then why are there so many successful jerks? The surprising answer to that is coming up. Plus, what motivates people? Turns out, a lot of things. We drink when we're thirsty and we eat when we're hungry. That's a motivation. But human beings also have other motivations. The drive to do things because they're interesting. The drive to do things because they matter. The drive to do things because we get better at them. Also, just how important is it to have friends? This intel will amaze you. And if you hate small talk or have trouble making conversation... I can tell you, Mike, how to talk intelligently on any single subject in two words. Are you ready? Are you holding onto your seat? Those two magic words, be curious.

And when you're passionately curious with other people, Mike, they feel so good around you. They feel smart, they think you're brilliant, and you immediately enhance your connection. All this today on Something You Should Know. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like Something You Should Know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest.

Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes. Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back, and in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed critical thinker.

Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life.

Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. You know, it continues to amaze me how the audience for this podcast just keeps growing. This past week was another record week in terms of the number of listeners. And within that week, we had two record days. And it has to be because of you and people like you who not only listen, but tell other people to listen, because the audience just keeps growing. And I am eternally grateful. Thank you. First up today, does it pay to be nice?

Do nice guys finish first or do nice guys finish last? There have been a lot of books and speakers over the last few years talking about the advantages of being nice, but there are also a lot of successful jerks. I've worked for a couple and I know several. The truth is that success may lie somewhere in the middle of being nice and being a jerk. At the University of Amsterdam, researchers have found that semi-obnoxious behavior not only can make a person seem more powerful, it can actually make them more powerful. We believe that we want people who are modest and authentic

and all the things that we rate positively, we want that in our leaders. But the research shows that these traits are not good predictors of things like high salaries and leadership positions. In a sense, being too nice can cost you. According to Adam Grant, author of the book Give and Take, the best thing to do is be what he calls a disagreeable giver, that is, somebody who uses their thorny behavior

to further the well-being and success of others. For example, in one study, a person is seen stealing coffee from a pot on another person's desk. Now, if he is observed stealing the coffee just for himself, then those people watching think he's a jerk. But if he pours the coffee for himself and the person he stole it from, he is perceived as a leader. But when he poured the coffee just for the other person, his leadership ratings collapsed. In many ways, Steve Jobs was a disagreeable giver.

He made himself and a lot of other people rich, but he wasn't especially nice about it. And that is something you should know. What motivates you? I know that's a hard question to answer because it depends on a lot of factors, but think about it. For everything you do and everything you've ever done, something has motivated you to do those things. And those motivations come either from within or from outside. It's important to know about motivation, not only to understand what motivates you, but also what works to motivate others. Because throughout your life, you have been and will be required to motivate people to do things. Daniel Pink knows a

lot about this. Daniel's been a guest here before, and one of the books that he's written that we haven't talked about is called Drive, The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us. Hey Daniel, welcome back. So motivation seems like kind of the perfect Daniel Pink topic to tackle. How did you approach this? I went into the, looked at the science of motivation, looked at some research on human motivation, which turned out to be a treasure trove. There's a treasure trove of research over the last 50 years in human motivation,

and it said some things that really, really surprised me. Things like what? Things like carrots and sticks, the classic motivator that we use in business, work, but in only a surprisingly narrow band of circumstances, and that for a lot of things, they either don't work or backfire colossally, and that there's actually a better approach to motivation

that is not rooted in carrots and sticks, but has to do with autonomy and mastery and purpose. And that in the 21st century, when more and more of us are doing creative, conceptual, somewhat interesting work, companies that treat people like horses, as if they're motivated only by carrots or the threat of a stick, are actually going to fall behind. And companies that actually treat people like people, offer autonomy, help them move toward mastery, infuse the workplace with a sense of purpose, those are the companies that

actually are flourishing and will continue to flourish. Well, what would that mean exactly? I mean, what would a company do if a company wanted to do what you just described? I'll give you an example. I mean, there are companies that are doing this. Here's a really interesting example from an Australian company called Atlassian. It's a software company. Atlassian is a software company, and they do something really cool. Once a quarter, they say to their software developers, for the next 24 hours, you can work on whatever you want.

You can do it with whomever you want. You can do it the way that you want. You just have to show the results to the company, the rest of the company in this fun meeting at the end of those 24 hours. They call these things FedEx days because you have to deliver something overnight. Well, it turns out that that one day of undiluted autonomy has produced a whole array of ideas for new products, upgrades to existing products, fixes for some flaws in current products that would never have emerged except for that FedEx day. Now, this is not a carrot and stick motivator. This is not saying to them, if you are innovative, I will give you 500 bucks. It's saying, you probably want to be innovative,

so let me just get out of your way and let you be innovative. That's a very different approach to motivation. But I would think that some people are motivated by some things and others by other things. So when you try to motivate a group of people with one motivation, well, it might work on some, but it might not work on others because they don't find it particularly motivating. I think that's true at one level, but I also think that human beings, listen, human beings are complex. We're motivated, we have biological motivations, okay? We drink when we're thirsty and we eat when we're hungry. That's a motivation. Human beings also have a reward and punishment motivation. So if you say to me, Dan, I'm going to go pay you a hundred bucks to go stand out in the street corner and tap your head,

I'm going out the door right now. We respond well to rewards and punishments, but human beings also have other motivations. The drive to do things because they're interesting. The drive to do things because they matter. The drive to do things because we get better at them. The drive to do things because they contribute to the world. And what the science shows is that you've got to pay people enough. You've got to pay people enough. If you don't pay people enough, you're not going to have any realistic motivation.

But once you pay people enough, external rewards like that, contingent rewards, if-then rewards, don't play that big of a role in high performance. What really plays a role in high performance, once you pay people enough, is giving them freedom, allowing them to get better at something that matters, and infusing the workplace with a sense of purpose, a sense that they're doing something larger than themselves. That is far more potent and far more enduring than this elaborate regime of carrots and sticks that we've been using for 150 years.

But does it not depend on the type of work you're doing? Yes and no. And I'll give you an example. Let's take something like call centers. Call centers are very difficult jobs. They're not particularly interesting. People are often monitored. The call center employees are monitored. Their calls are timed. When they get a call in, they essentially just have to read a script. It's low on the autonomy scale. It's not particularly interesting. And it's not a job that

most of us would covet. Well, you have a company like Zappos who comes in and deals with its call center in a fundamentally different way. They say to their call center employees, solve the customer's problem. Solve the customer's problem. Do it however you want for as long as you want. We're not going to monitor you. We're not going to time you. Solve the customer's problem. And lo and behold, Zappos comes out of nowhere to be one of the top rated customer service firms in America. So here's a job that isn't being a graphic designer or software writer, where if you offer up some amount of autonomy, people perform at a higher level, and the company benefits. What if you're working for a company, though, that is less enlightened than Zappos, and you're losing your motivation because you work in a company that's very top-down, very

strict, like you just described? Can this work the other way? Can this change come from the bottom up? To some extent, and what you're describing is in some ways the landscape of American work right now. I mean, job satisfaction numbers have been plummeting. It's a combination that people are nervous and uninspired, a very dangerous combination. You have levels of workforce engagement dropping, it seems, more each year. There are some things that individuals can do to take it back a little bit.

And one of my favorites is this idea of a do-it-yourself performance review. Now, most people hate performance reviews, whether they're giving them or receiving them. And we've sort of lost sight of what the purpose is of a performance review. The purpose of a performance review is to help people get better, to help them move toward mastery. But doing that twice a year in this kabuki theater style settings where everyone's playing a rehearsed role isn't particularly effective. So one thing people can do that I encourage people to do is a do-it-yourself performance review, where at the

beginning of a month, you set out your goals. And at the end of the month, you call yourself into the office and ask yourself how you're faring. Are you making progress? Are you falling behind? Do you need other information? Some people are doing these kind of peer-to-peer performance reviews where I set out my goals and what I want to accomplish in the month. You set out yours. Fred sets out his. Maria sets out hers. And then at the end of the month, we get together, have coffee for an hour, talk about our performance, hold each other accountable. I think that's one way for individuals to take motivation back and not rely on companies to do it. One of the people I write about, a scholar named Edward Deasy, says that we've got to get past this notion that motivation is something somebody does to you. It's something that you do for yourself. I'm talking today with Daniel Pink, and we're talking about what's in his book,

Drive, the surprising truth about what motivates us. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network called The Search for the Silver Lining, a fantasy adventure series about part of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network called The Search for the Silver Lining, a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. Look for The Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world,

looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to, called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. We'll be right back. wherever you get your podcasts. So, Daniel, I can imagine, though, managers at companies thinking, well, you know, this all sounds great, FedEx days,

go take time off, do whatever you want, sounds great, but we're much more nuts and bolts here. We need to be in the office from 9 to 5, you need to do your job, and we don't have time for that. Yeah, I think that most companies can actually do the FedEx day, the 24 hours. But you can also do things in a more modest version. I mean, you could say, you know, this month, one afternoon a week, you can work on whatever you want.

And who among us has not squandered one afternoon at work? And, you know, I think people could surprise you. The other thing about this is that, you know, the dark cloud of the recession might have a silver lining on motivation for a couple of reasons. Number one is that recessions are often inflection points for people where their life has gone a direction they didn't expect and they have to think about where it's going to go next.

So what you see in recessions is, coming out of it, is some amount of reinvention, some amount of entrepreneurship. A lot of those kinds of activities are often very, very self-motivated. The other thing from a company's perspective is in these kind of tough times, you're pretty much out of carrots. You don't really have many bribes left. And that might force some companies, not all, might force some companies to think a little bit more creatively, a little bit more deeply about motivation. So it sounds like you're saying there's really two kinds of motivations. There's the traditional carrot and stick, which is just reward or punishment motivation,

which is kind of the old school way of doing it. And then there's these other kinds of motivations that you're talking about that are more creative and interesting and motivating. But aren't those just carrots and sticks in different language? I mean, ultimately, aren't they also rewards or punishments in order to get people to do what you want them to do? Not necessarily, because it comes from within. A carrot and a stick come from without. I mean, what you're doing is you're giving people freedom. I mean, I don't think that

freedom is a carrot. Freedom is, I think, qualitatively different. It allows people to be self-motivated. They're not chasing after something that you're dangling in front of them. What you're doing is that you're, in some ways, giving up control. And there are a lot of managers out there who think that their job is to control people. And I think

for, you know, in the industrial age or even in the information age when people are doing simple work, when they're turning the same screw the same way, or they're answering calls at a call center, or they are adding up columns of figures, that maybe control makes some sense. But when fewer people are doing that, and they're inevitably forced into doing things that require more innovation and creativity, giving up control is actually a better strategy. The problem with that is that managers giving up control face a little bit of a crisis, because if they're not controlling people, then what the heck are they doing there?

You know, I think that the question all of us should be asking ourselves in any kind of job is, okay, what the heck are you doing here? And if you went away, would anybody care? And would it have any effect on the world? And if the answer is no, then my hunch is that you're not going to be around that much longer and what you're doing isn't all that satisfying. And if you move into something as difficult as it is that is a little bit more satisfying

and actually answers the question that, you know, people would care if you went away, then I think you're going to have greater satisfaction and greater job security. So what about those people in those jobs where they turn the screw the same way every time or they flip burgers the same way every time? Are we to say that this doesn't apply to them? No, but I actually think they do.

I think the call center thing we talked about is a way to, you know, I think that any kind of job has room for autonomy. And we see this over and over again. You saw it with the Zappos call center example. You see it with an interesting study that I write about of hospital janitors, not a job that most of us would covet. There were some hospital janitors who saw the job essentially in that one way where they said, okay, my job is to

come in at a certain time, sweep the floors, and get out. In other environments where managers, people leading these hospitals, maybe encourage janitors to think of their jobs a little bit differently. Say, you know, if you're going in a cleaning room, feel free to talk to the patient, see how they're doing. You know, talk to the nurses and say, hey, you know, these janitors are pretty clued in about what's going on. If you have a question or need something done, you know, don't hesitate to ask them. Well, suddenly these janitors who were able to sculpt their jobs a little bit,

lo and behold, they report higher job satisfaction. There's less turnover. They're more likely to move up the ranks. So even in a job that most of us wouldn't covet, cleaning floors in a hospital, there's room for tapping people's intrinsic motivation. And again, it's not this kind of nicey-nice thing. It's not kumbaya, touchy-feely management that says we're going to sacrifice the bottom line.

It's actually, in its own way, a remarkably hard-headed, sophisticated, savvy, and strategic approach to business. Do you think, though, and maybe one of the reasons managers are reluctant to embrace this, is, okay, if you have people working and you tell them, all right, you can now have, as a motivation, we're going to give you 10% of your time to do whatever it is you want to do because that's going to motivate you to work better. But initially it might not.

Initially we would see a drop in productivity, a drop in results, however you measure them, and who wants a drop in results? Yeah, I don't know. I think it could. I mean, one of the things, let's take 20% time. One of the things about, you know, companies where like Google and some others where people can spend 20% of their time working on anything that they want, you know, chief financial officers go into cardiac arrest when that's proposed. Because you're saying, okay, let's take one-fifth of our wages and we redeploy them into something we don't know if it's going to work. And so I think there

might be cases where they do that. I mean, I think people, the workplace for many of us, not all of us, but for many of us is so controlling that if you release those controls, initially it can be somewhat disorienting. But I think over time it can be far more powerful. I'll give you an interesting study out of Cornell that looked at small businesses, and they categorized these small businesses based on whether they were top-down, kind of carrot-and-stick management and bottom-up, more autonomous management. And it turned out that the bottom-up, more autonomous management companies had four times,

four times the growth rate of those other more command-and-control traditional companies. When you do things like this, though, when you say, okay, you can take 20% of your time and do whatever you want, what should a company expect to get in return for that? I mean, is the idea that if you tell everybody to take all this time and do whatever they want, one person will come back with something spectacular? Or should you expect great things from everybody because they now have this new freedom? I mean, what's the expectation? You don't know. I mean, I think that people want to do great things. I don't think that everybody who has that kind of autonomy tomorrow will do

a great thing. I think a heck of a lot more will do a great thing than people expect. But, you know, there is an element of risk there. There's an element of uncertainty there. But I think that the genuine uncertainty of something that could lead to an innovation is far better than the false certainty that these outdated regimes of carrots and sticks will work. I think that's, in some ways, delusional. Great. Well, thanks, Dan. You always bring new insights to the table on whatever topic you're talking about, and I appreciate that. Daniel Pink has been my guest,

and the book that is the basis for this conversation is Daniel's book called Drive, The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us. And there's a link to that book at Amazon in the show notes for this episode of the podcast. Hey, everyone, join me, Megan Rinks, and me, Melissa Demonts for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? Each week, we deliver four fun-filled shows. In Don't Blame Me, we tackle our listeners' dilemmas with hilariously honest advice. Then we have But Am I Wrong?, which is for the listeners that didn't take our advice. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events. Then tune in to see you next Tuesday for our listener poll results from But Am I Wrong. And finally, wrap up your week with Fisting Friday, where we catch up and talk all things pop culture. Listen to Don't Blame Me,

But Am I Wrong on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. Do you love Disney? Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. There is nothing we don't cover.

We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed, but you definitely need in your life. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. Although we live in this hyper-connected world, one-on-one conversation is still essential to building relationships, making friends, connecting with others, getting ahead in your career. And that art of conversation, the ability to just go up and talk to someone, isn't, as you probably know, isn't always easy.

Here with some really good help and advice is Jill Spiegel. Jill started out in sales, and she is also a speaker, and she's been on all sorts of television and radio programs. And she, just as a side note, is the great-granddaughter of Joseph Spiegel, who started the Spiegel mail order catalog many, many years ago. Her book is How to Talk to Anyone About Anything. Hi, Jill. Good to have you here. You know, many people struggle with one-on-one conversation,

especially with strangers. It can be hard, and often the feeling is, you know, what's the point? This relationship's never going to go anywhere, and why bother? Well, yes, you're right, Mike, and the great news is everybody has the ability to connect, but whether you're shy or outgoing, you're meant to embrace your personality, and there's certain things any of us can do where we can walk in a room, exude an energy of connection, and have people feel excited about us,

but you're right, people struggle with it because they get into fear, and they don't think they're good enough, or they don't have the right personality or they imagine the worst desired outcome. But the good news is no matter what your personality is, even if you've struggled with it, anybody can connect doing simple things. Things like what? Things like the mindset of instant connection. Before you go to a party, enter a room, talk to anyone, do these three things. First, think really positive thoughts about yourself. So if you're shy, you don't say, I'm outgoing, but you say to yourself, I'm gentle, I'm healing,

I love to put people at ease. Embrace your shyness and you'll radiate an aura of connection. The next thing you do is imagine connecting with everyone and make that your mission. When you already have that in your mind and you see it happening, you radiate passion and purpose when you meet people and they feel excited about you. And the third thing, Mike, is to tune into the people around you. Life always puts people in our path that we're meant to meet. So when you walk in a room or have a conversation and you're sending compliments with your mind to people, they feel warmth from you and they want to talk to you. And if you just start out with those three

steps, you're going to become an amazing people person. But of course, people say in those situations, you know, I don't know what to say and I'm not good at small talk. That's okay. First of all, there's no such thing as small talk. No talk is small. Even when you start conversations with what a beautiful day or a compliment like I love your tie, you give people a psychological and emotional lift that makes them want to talk to you. And nobody is looking for somebody who's witty or clever or genius when they first meet you. They just want to sense that you have warmth, genuineness, and empathy. And also, I encourage everyone to start keeping a journal and write down interesting things you've learned or heard or read that you can share. So whenever you're going into a social situation,

you feel like you have a little plan in your pocket. In other words, be prepared. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, I can tell you, Mike, how to talk intelligently on any single subject in two words. Are you ready? Are you holding onto your seat? I am.

I'm going to show you in two words, and that means if you walk into a group, you see a group of people, to join them, all you do is say, hey, hey, mind if I join or got room for one more? Because people want to welcome you in. Now you're in the group. And they say, we're all talking about the book we just read, War and Peace.

We loved it. Ever read it? Now what happens is when people bring up a topic we know nothing about, Mike, we make the mistake of falling into the pit of shame. And then we go, no, I never read it. And then we disconnect. But I'm going to show you those two magic words when someone brings up a subject you know nothing about. All you have to

do is be curious. So you say, war and peace. My gosh, that is so amazing that you read that. You know, I never have, but I've always wanted to know about the theme of that book. What inspired you to read it? What did you love about it? And when you're passionately curious with other people, Mike, they feel so good around you. They feel smart. They think you're brilliant and you immediately enhance your connection. Do you love it? I love it. Oh, good. Because the great thing about life is we're all here to learn from each other. So when you're interested in what other people know, they see how brilliant you are and they want to be around you more because you make them feel special and important. But in order to do that, you have to get over that feeling of that so many people have of you walk into a room full of strangers and it's,

I don't know anybody here. I don't know what to say. I mean, you have to come up with that confidence to dive in. Okay, well, you're going to do the three steps that I told you because that will instill confidence in with you. But remember, if you're still nervous, there's so many ways to capitalize on that nervousness to endear people to you. So one strategy that you use, Mike, is if you are shyer and you walk through and you feel nervous, remember that all you have to do is connect with one person. If you think you have to master the whole room and work the whole room, that is way too overwhelming. So think, all I have to do is make one person feel special.

That's all I have to do. And you're going to look in that room, and you're going to see somebody else that feels like you, who's hiding in the corner, who's nervous, and who is just aching for somebody to come up to them. You're going to go up to that person, and you're going to make them feel so comfortable by talking to them like you've known them forever. And you can even admit that you're nervous're going to make them feel so comfortable by talking to them like you've known them forever.

And you can even admit that you're nervous, which will make them feel so connected to you. And you can say, hi, I'm Jill. And listen, I've never been to one of these before. I'm a little nervous to be here. But when I saw you standing there, you exuded so much kindness. I knew I could just come up to you and say hello. Now, have you been to these before? And people think, oh, I'm so relieved to meet a genuine down-to-earth person

who's admitting this is a little nerve-wracking too. Then you'll immediately connect with that person. And once you've been talking to them for a few minutes, all your nervousness will dissolve because you see that you're in the moment of connection. And that's going to give you more confidence to continue to work the room person to person. So let's talk about a different situation, and that is maybe more of a work situation or a business situation where you've got to make the sale. You're talking to somebody that you don't really necessarily want to talk to, but there's a business result you're looking for.

If you think, well, I need the sale to get business, or now I'm in a business atmosphere, so I have to act more business-y. That's going to throw you off. You will make the sale if you know that you've got a great product and you're thinking, I am so excited that this person is going to benefit from what I have to show them today because they're going to feel that sincerity from you. And then even though it is business, you can still, when you sit down with them, if you see like a picture behind them, let's say you're calling in a company and they've got a picture behind them, You say, is that a golden retriever? Oh, my gosh, that's my favorite dog. And you get to the human level a little bit.

And then they feel like they're really talking to a real person. And then once you begin your presentation or whatever it is, remember if you're coming from your heart and you really believe in what you're showing and you're really out to make the person feel great that they have the product, you're going to have an instant connection. We psych ourselves out and we say, now I'm in business, I have to act differently, or now I'm talking to a friend and I have to act differently.

Be your authentic self all the time. Take a true interest in people. And if you're always coming from respect, you're going to connect immediately. Also in business, don't be afraid to say the words, I don't know. If somebody asks you a question about your product, you come across so well and you say, you know, I don't know the answer to that a question about your product you you come across so well

and you say you know I don't know the answer to that that is such an astute question I am going to find out and get back to you that is so impressive instead of going oh well I think so or yeah sure I mean people want to be with someone who's real even when you forget someone's name they're gonna think more of you if you say you know I'm never gonna forget that great smile but you've got to tell me your name one more time. It flew right above my head. They'll say, oh, gosh, this is a person who's really real. And as long as you compliment them before you ask for their name again,

they're going to continue to feel that connection with you. So, again, think about what your mission is in life. It's not about now I'm in business, I have to make a sale, or now I'm meeting this person for coffee, I have to be friendly. Think about that your're a mission. You're living connection with people. You're here to find out what you can learn from everyone and what you can offer them. And think about why life put these people in your path. And then you don't feel like you have to strategize all the time of adjusting your personality.

You know that you're a student of life, that every conversation there's a magical treasure hunt in it, and you're really open to the world and what it puts in your path, and this makes you feel more open and alert, living by that intention and that mission. What about difficult conversations where it's somebody maybe you don't really want to talk to or a conversation that you'd really rather avoid, or there's a lot on the line and it's going to be difficult to get what you want? Everyone comes to our life for a reason, so difficult conversations can be the greatest moments to learn and grow.

I have ten ways to save difficult conversations. One, for example, Mike, would be when you talk to people who brag. You know, you were just talking about business a minute ago, and sometimes in the business atmosphere, we're conditioned to think we have to compete and one-up each other. So I was in a networking party once, and I said to a guy, now what do you do? And Mike had a very bragging tone, and he goes, let's just say I make a lot of money for a lot of people.

And I thought, am I supposed to say that I make tons of money, which isn't really my purpose in life? So I realized when he was bragging, he's sending me a hidden mind message, that he really wants approval and he really wants to feel important. So instead of competing back with people that brag, you make them feel good. You compliment them, give them what they really want to feel important. So I said to him, you do make a lot of money for a lot of people. That must be so rewarding to help so many people. I can tell you really care about what you're doing. And Mikey lit up and he went, huh? Oh, and then he melted before my eyes and he became such a human being. And once I showed him that I was impressed with him, he wanted to get me to know me more on a human level. So when people brag, compliment them, make them feel

special and their fear will dissolve because that's all it is. It's fear. Isn't that spectacular? It's that simple. Yes, yes, it's spectacular. But what about people who are grumpy and just don't like to talk? Well, first of all, you need to decide how much of an emotional investment you want to put into them. So let's say you're sitting next to a co-worker, Betty, and you have to work on a report with her for an hour, okay? And you say, hey, Betty, happy Monday. And she goes, what? No, it's awful. You know, and then you say, now if you think, oh, Betty is so negative and Betty is so judgmental, then you're both in tension and you can't connect. So realize that Betty needs some kindness. When

people are rude or critical, that's coming from an inner pain. And you just say, oh, Betty, you know, I can tell that something's wrong. And if you want to talk about it before we get to the report, I'm all ears. And she will feel so good about you. When you say to a coworker, I can tell there's pain or frustration there. Did you want to talk about it? They see that you're a functional person who isn't just about numbers and you really take an interest in them. They want to work harder for you.

But let's say, Mike, that you don't have an hour to work on a report with Betty, that you want to get to work, and if you say, Betty, how are you? And she goes, fine. You know, if you say, oh, I can tell you're upset, you want to talk about it, you might end up getting in a two-hour conversation with Betty. So many people that read my book say, yeah, I want to show that I'm kind, but I don't have the time to invest in hearing their issue. So then if that's the case, Mike, you say, oh, Betty, you know, you say you're fine,

yet I can tell there's pain and frustration. I know how that can feel, and I want you to know I'm wishing you a fantastic day, and I know it's going to get better. Bye now. So send them some positive energy. Imagine positive things happening to them. Say it with your words and then move on. But just by being that way with them, they're going to feel an emotional lift,

and when they see you again, they're going to be at ease and they're going to trust you because you're not dysfunctional. You're functional. You point out when emotions may be difficult and you're soothing about it. And it works wonders. Talk for a moment about, because I can imagine people listening to this saying, well, you know, this is great for Miss Spiegel here because she's peppy and, you know,-energy style, but that's not me. I can't do that. I can't be her or be like her. That's her. So what about somebody who's a little more low-key, like me? I'm not that peppy in a conversation. I can be animated, but I don't have the zip that you have.

So what about people like me? Well, Mike, that is such a fantastic question. I am on warp speed. When people come to my seminars, one of the first things I have to tell them is that this is not about how to be hyper like me. This is about how to take all these fundamentals and channel it through who you are. So you're going to take this and you're going to do it in your own style. Like one section I have in my book is when people say, what do you do to answer that with passion and and purpose so you open up your world to connection. So it would be one thing to say people might say to me, hey, what do you do?

And I can go, I'm an author, and that doesn't say a lot. But if they say, what do you do? And I say, I love to teach people how to connect. We all have the ability to connect with everyone, and I teach that through my books and seminars. And when I'm not doing that, I love nature and I walk the lakes every morning. Suddenly I'm a full person who's successful because I have a full life and you get to know the heart of me. Now, one guy in my class, when I said that, he said,

Jill, I don't think that way. I'm not about passion and purpose and I'm very simple. And I said, well, if someone said to you, what do you do, what's your favorite thing to do? And he said, I like quiet nights, sitting on my porch, petting my cat. Now, that was his style, and what he's role modeling to people is contentment and enjoying the simple life. And when he owns his style with people, they all say, oh, that sounds so wonderful.

I love peaceful nights. Or here's a great guy that's not here to conquer the world. He just enjoys the simple things, and I can do that too. So you're going to filter this through who you are, and you're going to realize that every time you open your mouth, you have the ability to inspire someone and change the world, and that's where you're going to get energy. You're going to wake up the morning feeling so good

because you've spread so much purpose and you've been so healing to people. And it's amazing. By doing these techniques to you, Mike, people become so popular that I had to add a section in the book about how to handle your popularity, because when you live these principles, people want to work with you, they want to go out with you, they want to be your friend. So it's so important to learn how to say no to people gently. If you can't get in that kind of connection with them,

you can connect in the moment, but if it can't be long-term, there's even a way to say no gently, to keep them still feeling fantastic about themselves and about who you are well how do you do that i mean that's a real art to be able to say no and do it well well anytime you have to say no you always say the no in between two compliments because you want to leave people on a high note and you want to introduce your saying no through a connection so let let's say, Mike, somebody was on your show and they're like, Mike, you're so fantastic. We've got to be best friends. Let's go out this weekend.

They're that excited about you and they feel like you're on the same wavelength because you're so friendly. So here's what you say. The first thing you do is validate and compliment them. And you say, oh, I know what you mean. We really click. And you're such a fascinating person, too. I feel the connection.

So now they feel validated and they still feel appreciated by you. Then you go into why you can't fulfill the connection, and you don't do it with the words, but, because once you say but, people think you don't mean what you just said, and it comes out so harsh. So after you say, yes, I can feel the connection, too. At the same time, my plate is so full, I just can't put one other thing on my calendar, and see your no has nothing to do with them. It's more about your life, and then you go back into a compliment. You say, but hey, give me your email address, because if that changes, I will let you know, and I'm so thrilled we got to connect today. So it's compliment, feedback, compliment, with the

bridge of the words at the same time, coming sincerely from your heart, and you're always going to leave people on a high note, because even if you can't continue a friendship or business relationship, they're going to leave feeling appreciated by you and elevated by you. And watch how their faith lights up when they see you again, because you made them feel so important. Well, it's a great message, Jill, that I think everybody can take something from this.

I know, it's so exciting. I get more excited when I talk about it, because it's just so inspiring to let people know that they're meant to live their dreams. And your soulmate could be sitting next to you on a bus. Your dream business partner could be next to you at a cocktail party. The person who has a life-changing lesson to tell you could be next to you, you know, sitting, waiting at an airport.

So when you reach out and start positive conversations, you see how life puts people in your path that you're meant to meet to live your goals. And really listen to your intuition. See who you're drawn to, who you're interested in, because there's a nugget of magic in there. Once I was at a party, Mike, and I didn't know anyone, and I saw this really cute girl sitting on a couch, and I just felt interested about her. I wanted to know more about her. So I walked up to her and I said, hi, I don't know anyone here, but you look so friendly. My name is Jill. And she goes, oh, hi, my name is Beth. And we talked for 10 minutes. And after 10 minutes, she goes, it's amazing. You look like my brother. You talk like my brother. You have the same interest as him. Long story short, Mike, I married her brother. But don't you ever just, you know,

whether it's the day or the person you're talking to, where you just, you know, I just don't you ever just, you know, whether it's the day or the person you're talking to, where you just, you know, I just don't have the energy for this. Some days you just might not be in the mood to have a full-on conversation. If that's the case, make sure if they spot you and you see them, you give them a really warm smile, and you're warm by sending them compliments with your mind. Like you might think, oh, that person's smile is so contagious. You smile back. Then imagine them having a fantastic day because they're going to feel positive energy when you think it about them, and then you can move on.

But you never know, even that one moment of exchanging positive energy could be just what you need and they needed to have a great day. So you never want to be phony about it, but what you're going to find is the more you reach out and talk to anyone about anything, the more you get so excited and alert about life that you get more interested in people and more people are drawn to you. Thanks, Jill. I think there's advice in what you've said for everyone, whether you're just trying to get through a conversation and make it pleasant, or you really want to make a connection with someone, or you just want to explore and see if there's a connection worth making.

Jill Spiegel has been my guest. Her book is How to Talk to Anyone About Anything. There's a link to her book in the show notes for this episode. Her website is jillspiegel.com. You've probably already heard that having friends is important in a lot of ways for both kids and adults. But here are some interesting facts about friendship you may not know. Friends make hills seem less steep. And not just in the metaphorical sense.

In a fascinating study published in the Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, participants estimated a hill to be less steep when they had a friend along with them compared to when they walked the same hill by themselves. What's more, the longer the friends knew each other, the less steep the hill seemed. Friends help you live longer. Brigham Young University analyzed data from nearly 150 different studies on social relationships and mortality, and they uncovered a startling statistic. A weak social circle can take toll on your longevity, comparable to smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. Friends make you more attractive. When researchers asked 139 college students to rank the general attractiveness of people in a group photo, then rank the attractiveness of those same people in individual photos,

the individual photos were ranked 5.5% less attractive. Friends share DNA. A study suggests that close friends share about 1% of their DNA, making them as close genetically as fourth cousins. Researchers from Yale University and UC San Diego

analyzed data from nearly 2,000 people and found that the chemistry that draws friends together may actually stem from shared DNA. And that is something you should know. New episodes of Something You Should Know come out three times a week, on Monday mornings, Thursday mornings, and Saturday mornings. And to make sure you don't miss a single one of them, all you have to do is subscribe to this podcast.

It's free, it's easy, just hit the subscribe button. I'm Micah Ruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group.

Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook, starring Kelly Marie Tran and

Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. truth, that ours is not a loving God, and we are not its favored children. The Heresies of Randolph Bantwine, wherever podcasts are available.