Something You Should Know - SYSK Choice: The Secrets to Speaking With Confidence & Valuable Food Safety Tips

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Starting point is 00:00:27 Download June's Journey now on Android or iOS. Today on Something You Should Know, what you may not know about the batteries that power all those remotes and clocks and other things in your home. Then, if you don't like the sound of your own voice, this lady is about to change your mind. The voice is an instrument, really simply. It's a wind instrument. And we all know that if you pick up a saxophone, it won't sound great at first, but if you keep practicing, the sound will change. And voices are the same.

Starting point is 00:01:00 Also some of the best and simplest advice on success you've ever heard. And how to keep the food in your house safe, because food safety is tricky. Most people are concerned about food safety, rightly so, too. In fact, we know from CDC statistics that there are 48 million people who get foodborne illness every year, of which 128,000 are hospitalized and 3,000 die. All this today on Something You Should Know. Bumble knows it's hard to start conversations. Hey, no, too basic. Hi there. Still no. What about hello, handsome?

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Starting point is 00:02:08 advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome to Something You Should Know. I don't know about you, but we go through in this house, we go through a lot of batteries. There's so many things we have that run on batteries. Remotes, clocks, smoke detectors, carbon monoxide detectors, flashlights. We go through a lot of them. And there's some interesting things about batteries you may not know, and this is according to the website greenbatteries.com. The energy required to produce a battery is about 50 times greater

Starting point is 00:02:48 than the amount of energy they discharge in use. All batteries contain mercury, which is one reason why they need to be disposed of as hazardous waste. Manufacturers have made progress in trying to produce an alkaline battery that has no mercury in it, but mercury is an essential part of those little round button batteries. Regular batteries stored at room temperature will lose about 2% of their charge per year, and putting them in the refrigerator does not prolong their life.

Starting point is 00:03:23 Since there are no real industry standards for batteries, many terms used by battery manufacturers, like heavy-duty, ultra-long life, high capacity, those terms have no real meaning, no definition, and may be nothing more than just marketing hype. And that is something you should know. How many times have you heard someone say, oh, I just hate the sound of my own voice? Maybe you've said it. I've heard a lot of people say it. And when they say it, they often say it

Starting point is 00:03:58 with this resignation in their voice, as if there's nothing that can be done to make their voice better. Which is just not true, as you're about to learn from Caroline Goiter. She is a very successful voice coach who has worked with actors, teachers, broadcasters, and people in the corporate world. She has a TED Talk that has been viewed over 8 million times. And she is author of the book, Find Your Voice, The Secret to Talking with Confidence in Any Situation. Hi, Caroline. Welcome to Something You Should Know.

Starting point is 00:04:33 Hey, Michael. Great to be here. It is so interesting why so many people don't like the sound of their voice, and I think a big part of it is it's not that they don't like it necessarily. It's just when they hear a recording of it, it doesn't sound the way it sounds to them. And they're used to what they hear in their head. So that's what they think is their voice. But still, a lot of people don't like their voice.

Starting point is 00:05:07 And yet it is our primary means of communication. It's something that I'm so curious about why we have such a fixed mindset about, as you say, this is my voice when the voice is an instrument, really simply, it's a wind instrument. And we all know that if you pick up a saxophone, it won't sound great at first, but you keep practicing it'll the sound will change and voices are the same so when someone says that really common thing it's so normal i hate my voice when i hear it on a recording i say to them you can really learn to love your voice but the first thing you have to do is just to get to know it so let's talk about some of the first aid kind of problems people have with their voice. I remember the first time, many, many years ago, where I had to speak. I don't remember the situation, but I remember the first time my voice shook because I was so nervous and I could feel my voice and hear my voice shaking.

Starting point is 00:06:03 And it scared the bejesus out of me. And, of course, when you hear that, it stresses you out, which makes you more stressed, which makes your voice shake more. And it's horrible. What is that? So that is this very simple fact that your voice is exhaled air. The way the voice works is by air being exhaled out of the lungs, hitting the larynx, vibrating, can't say that, vibrating into the bones of the skull, the jaw and being shaped by the articulators. So when we hit fight or flight, the body figures, you don't need to talk your way out of this situation. And it starts pumping blood to your limbs. And that the effect of all those fight or flight

Starting point is 00:06:53 hormones in the blood makes your system shake, it makes your voice shake. And it's a really horrible feeling, because we feel out of control. And the simple thing that anybody can do when they're hit by that horrible fight or flight shaky voice feeling is just lengthen the out breath. Because your heart rate is slowed down when you breathe out and it's raised when you breathe in. So say you are in a stressful situation, just think of letting the breath come in for four and let it go out for six or for eight. And if you do that for 30 seconds, your heart rate starts to come down and your voice will stop shaking. Now, the other thing you can do when you're speaking is to put lovely full stops at the end of each sentence because most of us when we feel our voices shake we start to speak faster

Starting point is 00:07:52 and try and hide it. That's the worst thing you can do. If you stop talking at the end of a sentence put in a full stop, take a lovely wide deep breath then your system gets the message that it's safe and you can go on. Take a lovely, wide, deep breath. Then your system gets the message that it's safe and you can go on. So breath is the key. When people say, I don't like my voice, what are they typically saying? Is it really just a case of they're not used to hearing it the way other people hear it? Is that your sense? Or when people say, I don't like my voice, what do they typically mean? So there've been studies on this. And the problem with our voices

Starting point is 00:08:31 is that we get loads of information from our own bodies, because there's a lot of what's called bone conduction in the feedback we get for the voice. So I feel it buzz in my body. That's not what other people hear. And when we hear our voices on a recording, that's a much more accurate imprint or recording of what our sound actually is like to others. So what I say to people is don't listen to yourself as you speak, because that's a false sound. It's not true to what other people are picking up. A much better thing to do, strangely, is to feel your voice. So if you feel your voice buzzing in your chest or your back or your belly, then you kind of know where the resonance is.

Starting point is 00:09:24 And so when you feel your voice buzzing, where should it be buzzing? or your belly, then you kind of know where the resonance is. And so when you feel your voice buzzing, where should it be buzzing? Oh, that's a good question. I would say to people, the best thing you can do is hum. You know, you can just do a gentle, and when you hum, feel the sound buzzing in the bones of your chest, feel the sound buzzing maybe in the bones of your ribs, you might feel the sound in your back. And if you get that kind of buzz, chest, back, ribs, then you know that your voice has a nice buzzy, relaxed resonance. We all know people, we've all been in meetings or we've watched speakers who just, yeah, I don't know exactly what it is,

Starting point is 00:10:05 but it's just that confidence that comes out that they just own the room. What is that? Oh, yeah, another lovely question. It's nice, it's interesting watching those people, isn't it? And my sense of those people is that they are just very much at home in themselves. They are in service to the audience. They're not in ego. They're not thinking, am I any good? Is this going to work? They're thinking, how do I help these people? And their heads are quite quiet. They're present to what's going on in the room.

Starting point is 00:10:46 And like, you know, it's like watching a great musician or a great broadcaster, a great tennis player. People who are just really present in mind, body, breath to what's going on around them. They're really compelling to watch. And the trouble is it's rare in this age because we're also stressed and triggered by our technology. So presence is a real golden quality in this world right now. One of the observations that I've made and having interviewed so many people, this happens, doesn't happen a lot, but it happens frequently enough to notice that I'll talk to people, say, before an interview, and they're very easygoing, conversational, very pleasant. when the ums and the ahs and the big long uh you know um it's it's like people are checking themselves at every word and they sound very stilted and they sound it it's very cumbersome

Starting point is 00:11:55 to listen to and i'm thinking what happened to the guy i was talking to five minutes ago i know it's it's it's classic and as a speaker coach a I notice it in myself and b I notice it in other speakers and I think I mean what an acting training would tell you is that when you get into performance just release and let go because often it's people wanting to control the impression they make and actually when something is live it's much better just to release and have a chat and get things wrong and fail gloriously and then we tend to paradoxically show up at our best but of course that takes two things it takes preparation and knowing how to prepare so you can let go and then it also takes the ability to

Starting point is 00:12:46 really get present in the moment so you're not overthinking it. And those are two things that if you want to learn, the best way to learn it is to do an acting training, a singing training, or some kind of performance training, because all performance training teaches you how to be bold and to let go and to fail gloriously in the moment and that's the art my experience is for myself as well as listening to other people and advice i sometimes give to people who i'm interviewing is if it's possible, stand up. Oh, yes. That posture. Posture is so important because it just brings the power out. Absolutely.

Starting point is 00:13:32 That's been my mantra for the last year. You know, for Zoom calls, for Teams calls. Stand up, use your hands, breathe deeply, ground your feet, and you'll rock. I mean, it's so simple in lots of ways. The subject today is your voice and how to make it sound spectacular. My guest is Caroline Goiter. She's author of the book, Find Your Voice. This winter, take a trip to Tampa on Porter Airlines.

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Starting point is 00:14:47 Connect with a credentialed therapist by phone, video, or online chat. Visit BetterHelp.com to learn more. That's BetterHelp.com. So, Caroline, let's talk about the ums and the ahs and the you knows. Because I notice them a lot. Especially because in interviews, I will go often go back and edit a lot of them out that people say. I think people don't realize how much they say it.

Starting point is 00:15:15 And I also have this theory that sometimes people throw in ums and ahs. I don't know, to maybe try to make what they're saying sound more important. I don't know. It's funny. I once did a show for BBC Radio 4 on ums and ahs, and they didn't edit them out. And it was fascinating as we talked about this issue, how many there were. So the first thing I would say to people is some ums and ahs are fine because they're marking thinking space. In conversation, that's natural and it's okay. But as you say, in the kind of

Starting point is 00:15:54 formal broadcast or performance space, actually, it is slightly less conversational. And so it's better to have nice, short sentences and to honour a pause. Your pauses are beautiful. And the thing that people don't do in their pauses is breathe. If you say a sentence and then close your mouth and breathe, take in a lovely relaxed in breath, your whole system is oxygenated, you feel more confident, your brain gets a lovely rush of oxygen which helps you think and then you go on to the next line and I find that that if people learn to take a nice relaxed full stop with a lovely relaxed in breath like

Starting point is 00:16:44 smelling a rose. Do you know what? Their whole speaking opens up. And when your mouth is closed, you can't um, so it's magical. I remember reading, in fact, I want to get this guy back on the podcast if I can. Michael Erard wrote a book about verbal blunders, and he says that people have probably been saying um and ah forever, and every language has their own version of um and ah, but that nobody actually noticed it much or said anything about it or talked about it until voice recording started in the early 20th century. And before that, it was just considered a noise, kind of like a cough, like you don't talk about how people cough when they talk. People didn't talk about ums and ahs until voice recording and people heard themselves saying it.

Starting point is 00:17:34 And then it became a thing. And now I think some people really struggle with it. Often when I'm working with someone and we're eradicating ums, as I like to do, they'll realize that they learned to do it as a kid because they lived in a family where there was lots of talking and interrupting. And if you're umming, then someone knows not to interrupt you because you're still thinking. So it can just be, don't interrupt me, I'm still thinking. What I say to those people is you can do that with a gesture. So you can do something called a frozen hand gesture. As I pause and take my lovely, relaxed, smelling a rose in breath, I freeze my hand gesture visibly. It's not going to work on a podcast, but

Starting point is 00:18:18 you can use your imagination. And that tells people if they can see me, that I'm still thinking. And that often allows people to fit what they're saying, you know, it's like those teachers that we've all had in school who just kind of drone on and, you know, their voice may be fine, but if they don't animate it, if they don't, you know, bring it to life, then nobody thinks they have much of a voice. And I think it goes back to this whole thing about our education system sits us down in exams and asks us to be valued by what we know. But what it doesn't tell us is that, as you say, how we express something is just as valuable as a music to language. The emotional qualities, you know, the way we listen, the way we kind of dance our speech is just as important. And I think unless we're taught to value that, not just for the

Starting point is 00:19:33 performing arts, but for life. And it's actually really sad in a digital age where so much is measured by how we show up on a microphone or on a camera. I think it needs to change the way we educate people, actually. Can you talk about how people, when they speak, and they have a presentation to make, either formally or informally, and there does seem to be a tendency to cram as much information in as you possibly can and and then my work here is done kind of thing without really understanding like what are people gonna take away it isn't so much what you say it's what they remember exactly and and I think the problem with the starting point is

Starting point is 00:20:22 that for many people doing that presentation feels like an exam. And if you go back to school, the way you passed an exam was by cramming it all in and then writing it all down. And of course, the presentation isn't exam, it's a present, it's a gift. It's your summary of an idea that you've thought a lot about. And absolutely, as you say, the starting point for any great communication is who are you serving? Who's your audience? What's their problem? What's your point

Starting point is 00:20:53 of view? And how are you going to help them solve it? And if you go in with that audience centered point of view, A, it makes you feel more confident because you're going to help them. And B, it allows you to distill it. And suddenly you're not in an exam. You're helping them by making it as simple as you can and no simpler, as Einstein put it. I think, you know, we hear frequently that the number one fear people have is speaking in public. And my experience is that it isn't the whole speaking in public. It's really just the first few minutes that are so terrifying. And then you kind of warm up to it.

Starting point is 00:21:35 After a while, you kind of get into the groove. But those first few minutes can completely derail you if you're not prepared for them. So what advice do you have to get over those first few minute jitters so that you can get into it? Yeah, this is a really key question because as you say, if someone is shaken by those first few minutes, it's so horrible that they never do it again. And there are things you can do to help. The first thing that I always feel nervous even though I've been doing this for a while and so I do something that I was taught actually by A-list actors because my first book was interviewing A-list actors about confidence and one of the things one of the actors said was that when I feel really nervous about going on stage, I have a nice treat waiting for me when it's done.

Starting point is 00:22:28 And this is a really good tip because often when we're nervous, we're visualising doom. And if you remind yourself that you're going to get home and you're going to have that nice glass of wine or you're going to have that lovely piece of cake or read that book that you bought yourself, then you're reminding yourself that this will be over and that's helpful. The other thing I was taught by actors is to make sure that you visualize success in the run-up. So make a movie of yourself walking out in front of that audience and being calm and centered and well-paced and enjoying it and make that movie really clear in your mind. And then the final actor's tip is as you walk out or as you log in, make sure that you

Starting point is 00:23:15 just come back to those simple things of my feet are on the floor, the air is on my face, breathe out wait for the breath to come in slow deep and wide and imagine that you're talking to your oldest dearest friend because that's a lovely rebalance for your nervous system and then your first line comes out so gentle so relaxed so centered you start to feel all right, the audience relax, and then you're off. And you just keep that sense of relax, breathe, pause for the first three or four lines. And that allows you to start in a really calm, easy, centered way. Yeah, well, that makes it easy. It is. It really is. I really wish everybody knew that chatting to an audience can be like talking to an old friend even with that great advice the the first few

Starting point is 00:24:14 words out of your mouth will always be probably the hardest so any suggestions for that the tip i was taught when i did my tedx i had a stand-up coach who said to me, in stand-up, we always start by honouring the room. And that's the same advice, really. You know, it's great to be here in Brixton. Wow, look at this great space. And look at you all, you know, it's 9am in the morning and you're bright and breezy, because that's serving the same purpose. It's kind of naming things that are basically facts and that it gives you time just to be in the room to be present and to get centered and I think those two things talk about yourself talk about the room are really good to do the thing I

Starting point is 00:24:57 would say not to do for people is that joke that you've learned isn't going to work if you're really nervous. Jokes don't. It never works. I always feel so bad for people who come out with a joke that falls flat. And then they're like, they're now like 10 steps down and they're going to have a tough time recovering because their joke didn't work. Yeah, it's brutal. And then people have learned to do it, I think. But it's such a risk. And only if you're a kind of pro comedian, can you trust that you'll be all

Starting point is 00:25:32 right on that one, I would say. This is so important, because we all have a voice. And as I said in the beginning, it does seem people resign themselves to the fact that they don't like their voice, and there's nothing they can do about it. And clearly from listening to you, there is. Caroline Goiter has been my guest. She's a voice coach who has a TED Talk that has been viewed over 8 million times. And she is the author of the book, Find Your Voice, The Secret to Talking with Confidence in Any Situation. There's a link to her book and a link to her TED Talk in the show notes.

Starting point is 00:26:08 Thank you, Caroline. Oh, thanks, Mike. It's been wonderful. I've really enjoyed talking. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like something you should know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for

Starting point is 00:26:43 three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes. Apple named the Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back, and in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed critical thinker. Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show.

Starting point is 00:27:15 There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman,

Starting point is 00:27:54 the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson, discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. Not too many days go by without hearing some story about how some food is being recalled or someone got sick from eating something that wasn't right.

Starting point is 00:28:41 So just how safe is the food we eat? And when people do get sick from food, is it because the food wasn't right to begin with or because people didn't store it correctly or cook it correctly? Since we all have to eat, we need to make sure that the food we bring home, cook, and eat is all safe. And here with some advice is Robert Brackett. Robert is a professor of food science at the Illinois Institute of Technology and director of the Institute of Food Safety and Health. He's often quoted in the media when issues of food safety come up, and we get to dive a

Starting point is 00:29:18 little deeper with him and peek into his kitchen to see what we can all do to make sure that we aren't getting sick from our food. Hey, Robert, welcome. Thanks, Mike. I am really happy to be here. So generally speaking, is our food safe? Seems safe. I think most people are concerned about food safety, rightly so too. But the truth is that the safety of the foods in this country is as good as it gets anywhere in the world and in many ways better. There's always room for improvement. And that's the reason why I have my job.

Starting point is 00:29:54 In fact, we know from CDC statistics that there are 48 million people who get foodborne illness every year, of which 128,000 are hospitalized and 3,000 die. When you consider the billions and billions of meals that are eaten each year, those are actual small numbers, but we can improve them. And there are things that consumers can do in their own homes, simple things that can reduce the risk that they have. And there are really four core practices that we always tell consumers, and it's simple to remember, which is clean, separate, cook, and chill. So by clean, we're talking about making sure that the food contact surfaces are clean, your cutting boards, your tableware. Separating mean you separate meats and poultry from raw vegetables so you're not

Starting point is 00:30:43 cross-contaminating, cooking to the right temperature, depending on what product that you're cooking, and then once it is, keeping cold things cold because bacteria have a very difficult time growing in cold temperatures. But those statistics you just mentioned, the number of people who get sick, some go to the hospital and some even die. Is it typically because their home kitchen hygiene is bad or is it because it seems like it's more at the source, like the food gets recalled because people got sick and died? Well, it can be. However, there are some types of products that are just inherently more risky, and those what we would be calling ready-to-eat foods, that is, foods that will not get some sort of cooking treatment before you actually eat it. which are generally, in many cases, eaten raw. So you have to wonder and do your best to try to get those products from reliable stores. But the one thing that consumers often don't realize, and this brings up the whole issue of packaged goods and dates,

Starting point is 00:31:57 is that the sell-by dates or the dates that are on those packages often have nothing to do with safety. They're really more for quality. Another thing that is related to that is the whole term of spoilage. Now, when you think of spoilage, you think of something, a food that's slimy or it smells bad or it tastes bad. But in fact, spoilage is our friend because it turns out that the organisms that actually make you sick don't spoil the food. Often they are completely make you sick don't spoil the food. Often they are completely invisible.

Starting point is 00:32:29 They don't affect the odor. They don't affect the flavor. So when you have spoilage organisms in a food, it's a hint to you. It's just sort of intuitive that I'm not going to eat this. It is past its prime. Or it may signal that the food has been abused, temperature abused, left out, that allowed the spoilage organisms to grow. And so we avoid those foods. Well, that's interesting that spoilage is our friend. You're saying that the thing that makes food unappealing after it's spoiled is not what makes us sick. It's really just like a spotlight saying, hey, don't eat this.

Starting point is 00:33:07 But it also seems, on the other hand, that people, there are people who see an expiration date on a carton of eggs or a thing of milk, and as soon as that date comes, they just throw it away without regard to seeing, you know, is it really gone bad, or has just the expiration date come and gone and it's time to toss it out? Yes, that is true. I think a lot of people who don't know any better, I mean, they're being conservative and that's probably the right thing to do, be a little more cautious. But in fact, many of the foods for which we have date labeling, the date is there really and put there by the

Starting point is 00:33:45 company because they want people to consume it when it's at its best quality because that they're going to be repeat customers if they do that. But in fact most many different types of foods you can safely consume it past its its expiration date. However one type of food that I would suggest that people do pay attention to the date and treat it as if it's a must are foods like luncheon meats that happen to be in vacuum packaged packages. As long as that package is in its whole state, that it hasn't been opened yet, the expiration date is probably effective. Once you open those, you have now exposed it to the air, you have exposed it to microorganisms that were not there to begin with, and I always recommend that people consume those products quickly within three to five days, even if it is refrigerated. Because what makes them so susceptible compared to other foods? Well, these foods have had in the past a history of supporting the growth of a very virulent

Starting point is 00:34:50 pathogen called listeria. And listeria is especially dangerous for pregnant women or people who are immunocompromised. And it has the ability to grow at refrigeration temperatures. So if you let that food sit in there for a long time, if there's listeria on it, it will continue to grow, and so we don't want that. Now, one thing consumers can do if they do have a lot of luncheon meat or bacon or hot dogs that they're not going to consume right away

Starting point is 00:35:21 is throw them in the freezer and just take them out when they're ready to consume them and heat them up. Now you may lose a little bit of texture quality, but you know the product is safe. Something like canned soup or canned green beans seems like they could last almost forever if they're never opened, but it does seem that every food has some sort of expiration date on it, whether it needs it or not. Most do. And you're quite right. Canned foods are probably the single safest food that we have in our food supply. And they can last years. And in fact, if you talk to groups like Department of Homeland Security, where you're looking for stocking up on non-perishables, that's what you

Starting point is 00:36:02 go get. You get canned foods and hopefully with a can opener. But I think that with most other foods, unless it is something like a spice, for instance, which may or may not have a date on it, these types of products may not be related to quality, but they would just naturally lose their spiciness just by sitting around. And the other thing to keep in mind, too, is that other factors will reduce the shelf life of products, including exposure to light, like sunlight, or oxygen. Any foods that, if they show this sign, you need to throw it out as soon as possible? Or is it all case by case? Like, for example, you know, like on chocolate, old chocolate pieces, you'll sometimes see that kind of white stuff on it.

Starting point is 00:36:52 And I thought, well, that is that safe? Is that safe to eat? I mean, or is that is that a sign that you need to get rid of it? I would say it's a sign that you probably need to get rid of it just because it's not very good quality. It is safe to eat. That's called a bloom. And that usually as chocolate is stored for long periods of time, either the fats in the cocoa butter or sugar in some cases will migrate to the outside and coat it. So to me, it's not very pleasant when it's like that. But it's not harmful. In most of the cases, can you go by your senses? If it smells okay and it

Starting point is 00:37:27 tastes okay, is it probably okay? No, that is one of the food safety myths. The sensory quality is no indication of the safety. As it turns out, the spoilage organisms are the ones that cause the sliminess, the smell, but they're not pathogenic. They're relatively harmless, as opposed to the disease-causing food poisoning bacteria, which do not usually cause any kind of quality detriment. So again, this is why we say spoilage is good, because it's a hint to the consumer that something is not right with that food. Well, I will say sometimes too, just as an example of what spoilage is versus what is safe, is something like kimchi or sauerkraut. And if you ask a consumer to eat that,

Starting point is 00:38:15 some of them are going to say, this is great. This is exactly what I want. Others are going to say, that's nothing more than spoiled cabbage. So there it's in the palate of the consumer. Yeah, because they're both right. Yes. So we've heard, for example, that honey never goes bad. Is that true? That's pretty true. Now, it depends what you mean by going bad. It will crystallize and sort of get solid, but that's not a safety issue. And what about, does sour cream ever go bad?

Starting point is 00:38:49 Because it's already sour. It's already turned, right? I mean, so I always thought that was kind of funny that how could sour cream get any more sour? Yes, it can get more sour. And I'll give you an example of another product that is in the same category. But what happens is a lot of times the lipids, that is the fat part of the sour cream, gets rancid. And that can be very nasty tasting.

Starting point is 00:39:13 So it does go bad, but it's, again, not a safety issue. A similar product is that of yogurt, which is produced by souring milk until it clots. And that becomes a yogurt. And they'll put an expiration date. And if you hold on to the yogurt long beyond the expiration date, or the longer you hold on to it, the more and more sour it gets to the point where it becomes unpleasant. Or it's there long enough that other types of spoilage organisms

Starting point is 00:39:40 may take over, such as mold. So every so often you will see, especially on older yogurt, mold starting to grow on the top of the yogurt. Anybody who has yogurt has seen that happen. I'm sure that at some point it does get a little fuzzy on the top. Right. And that's probably a pretty good sign to throw it out. Now, sometimes cheese gets moldy.

Starting point is 00:40:03 And can you just cut off the mold or the part that's moldy and eat the rest if it's not all moldy? That's not a good practice and here's why. It's because what you see on the surface of the cheese are what's called the mycelium of the mold. That's really the parts that you can see with the naked eye. What you can't see are the mycelium that is down penetrating inside the cheese itself. So actually that fuzziness actually goes into the internal part of the cheese, perhaps quarter inch, half inch. So when you see moldy cheese, it's probably best just to get rid of that. Unless it's something like camembert or brie. Well, that's covered in mold anyway, right? Yes, that's part of the production. So I'm curious, are there things that you do in your house because of what you know that maybe

Starting point is 00:40:52 other people don't do? Well, there are a few things. One I've already mentioned, which is if I have a large, if I go to a big box store and buy a lot of a food, say again, hot dogs, I will take out three or four of what I think I'm going to use over the next week and put the lot of a food, say again, hot dogs, I will take out three or four, what I think I'm going to use over the next week and put the rest of it in the freezer and withdraw it as I need it. There are also certain foods that I just avoid. I don't eat undercooked poultry or meat or fish. And I don't consume sprouts, sprouted seeds. Because of the potential for disease. Because of the potential for disease. In that particular case, unless it's cooked.

Starting point is 00:41:30 I mean, if you have something like bean sprouts in Asian cooking or something like that, that's fine. But when you eat ready-to-eat foods that are not going to get a terminal heat treatment, a cooking, you run the risk that if there are any harmful bacteria there, that you are going to eat them. As it turns out, many of these foods, the way they are produced, they are soaked in water,

Starting point is 00:41:49 then they're allowed to germinate. Well, it turns out the conditions that are needed for sprout germination are exactly the same conditions that foodborne pathogens like salmonella or E. coli like to grow in. So you can never really be sure. Let's talk about this trend towards pre-cut vegetables in the supermarket because, you know, it's certainly convenient. Is there any harm there? Well, I wouldn't say that there's harm, but people need to understand that there is a higher risk. And the higher risk comes because it's being handled more. And when you, a couple different things, you're handling it more. So you increase your risk that anything that's on the deli manager or whoever's cooking or cutting it up

Starting point is 00:42:31 could transfer to the produce. When you cut it up and mix it up, you may have one or two pieces that may be, have a harmful bacterium in it, but when you mix them all together and now it crossaminates the whole batch. And then the third thing is when you cut these products, they become much more able to sustain the growth of bacteria because of all the sugary juices that are coming out of them,

Starting point is 00:42:59 which bacteria like too. So I would say I don't tell people to avoid cut fresh produce, but you may want to think about who is consuming that. If it's someone that has a, you know, elderly or has an immune compromised system, you're better off getting the whole fruits and just cutting it out yourself or vegetables. Well, unless perhaps it's going to be cooked and then the problem seems that heat seems to be your friend, right? That is correct. The pre-cut, like when you go to the produce section of the supermarket, you'll see all this pre-cut stuff. Did somebody cut up those onions or is it all done by machine? They're done by machines.

Starting point is 00:43:51 But if you look at, say, the party trays that you have with a variety of fruits that may be an inch or two square, chunks like that, those are people that cut those up. I think there's an impression people have that pre-cut probably isn't as good. But on the other hand, like butternut squash is an example of, it's such a pain to cut one of those that if you buy it pre-cut, you're going to save yourself a lot of trouble. But I always kind of think it's probably not going to be as tasty because it's been all cut up and it's been sitting out. And is that a reasonable impression to have? I think that is. I think that with pre-cuts, you're going to end up having a little bit of loss of quality as opposed to buying a whole, say, cantaloupe or whatever that would be.

Starting point is 00:44:41 And that's because most of the flavor development in pretty much most fruits and vegetables develops while they are still ripening and so in many cases you will have products that are picked or cut early and then chopped up so they can be sold more easily retail but they're not going to be as fresh they're going to be in the store for you know hours or maybe the day as opposed to having someone cut it up right at the dinner table and you having it fresh. Can you address, and I'm not sure if you can, but I'll bet you can, organic produce, organic food has certainly become much more popular than it used to be. And part of the concern is pesticides. Where do you, what do you see? What's your stance on that?

Starting point is 00:45:29 I mean, should we be concerned about pesticides on our fruits and vegetables? No, not really. Yes, the organic products are being certified to not be used with or have pesticides used on them. But what we've seen in surveys, both by USDA and FDA, that when they go look at these products that are not organic, they can't find traces of those pesticides in those cases either. And even in some cases where you have organic, you may have an organic farm, if it's downwind from a farm that's conventional, there's always a chance that some of those tiny, tiny amounts of pesticide will drift onto their land as well.

Starting point is 00:46:12 So you don't ever buy organic for fear that there's too many pesticides in some foods like strawberries or one where it's not a smooth surface, so you worry that it gets into the food, and so you just go organic, and that way you avoid the problem. Well, in fact, I do worry about things getting into the product, but I'm more worried about microorganisms getting into the product rather than the pesticides. And that's a problem for both organic and conventionally grown. There's no, I think, scientific data to show that organic produce is any more nutritious or any safer than conventionally grown. There's no, I think, scientific data to show that organic produce is any more nutritious or any safer than conventionally grown. But there is that every year or every so often you hear that

Starting point is 00:46:52 list of it, that there are some foods that, for example, I've heard the advice that things like bananas, because they have that peel, organic's not, you don't need to worry about it because the peel comes off. if there are any pesticides that will come off with the peel but things like strawberries or things like that that you might be safer going organic you say there's no evidence for that no and in the case of things like bananas in many cases some of the pesticides or some of the agricultural chemicals can in fact get into internal tissues through the root system or through the leave system. So that's not always a guarantee that you're not going to have

Starting point is 00:47:32 some agricultural chemical in the product. But when these agricultural chemicals are approved for use in certain foods, FDA and the EPA take into account the physiology of the plant. And is this pesticide going to, number one, does it cause harm to humans or animals? And number two, is there a way that it can be misused when it's used with that particular plant? And you did mention that, you know, things like spices, and obviously there's lots of different kinds of spices that that over time they lose their spiciness is there a general rule of thumb because what is over time does that mean years or does that mean weeks or what well depending on which of the herbs or spice you're talking about it may be different but this is another example where if you have something like a high quality black pepper or some others, oregano.

Starting point is 00:48:28 You may want to store them in the freezer, and they will last longer. And make sure that they are tightly, the cap is on tight, tightly closed, because a lot of the essence of these is actually in volatiles that are lost to the air if it's exposed to the air too long. Well, I've never heard of that, to freeze the little bottles of spices. Yes, and that will extend the shelf life of those products. Well, this is good advice I think everyone needs to have and to heed because we're all eating, we all have to eat every day, and making sure our food is safe I think is so important.

Starting point is 00:49:01 Robert Brackett has been my guest. He is a professor of food science at the Illinois Institute of Technology and director of the Institute of Food Safety and Health. There is a link to more information about Robert in the show notes. Thanks for being here, Robert. As a podcast listener, I'm sure you know that you don't have to look very far in the list of podcasts out there to find a whole bunch of podcasts about how to be successful, how to win at life, how to win at your career. And I'm sure all those people who offer that advice have good things to say. But one formula for success I've always liked comes from former advertising executive James Dale, who wrote a book called The Obvious. He says to be successful, it all boils down to this formula. Show up. Don't be a jerk. Simple is better than complicated.

Starting point is 00:50:01 Tell the truth because it's rarely used, so it's like a secret weapon. Don't look backward, because there's nothing there. And trust someone besides yourself. And you have to admit, it's advice that's hard to argue with. And that is something you should know. There have been some really nice reviews of this podcast on Apple Podcasts and a few other places that I've been looking. I'd love to have you add yours to the list.

Starting point is 00:50:29 Please leave a rating and review of this podcast. It's a great way to show your support. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity.

Starting point is 00:51:07 The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Rob Benedict. And I am Richard Spate. We were both on a little show you might know called Supernatural. It had a pretty good run.

Starting point is 00:51:42 15 seasons, 327 episodes. And though we have seen, of course, every episode many times, we figured, hey, now that we're wrapped, let's watch it all again. And we can't do that alone. So we're inviting the cast and crew that made the show along for the ride.

Starting point is 00:51:58 We've got writers, producers, composers, directors, and we'll, of course, have some actors on as well, including some certain guys that played some certain pretty iconic brothers. It was kind of a little bit of a left field choice in the best way possible. The note from Kripke was, he's great, we love him, but we're looking for like a really intelligent Duchovny type. With 15 seasons to explore, it's going to be the road trip of several lifetimes. So please join us and subscribe to Supernatural then and now.

Something You Should Know - SYSK Choice: The Secrets to Speaking With Confidence & Valuable Food Safety Tips

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