Something You Should Know - SYSK Choice: What Watching Sports Does to You & What Happy Couples Do

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Starting point is 00:00:27 Download June's Journey now on Android or iOS. Today on Something You Should Know. Does chocolate cause acne? Does eating jello make your nails stronger? We start today with health facts and myths. Then, watching sports can actually be good for you. Why do we love it so? I didn't have to watch nine Star Wars movies to know the good guys were eventually going to win. Most entertainment is predictable in that way, but sports is

Starting point is 00:00:54 not. You have upsets and Cinderella stories, and you could be watching that game when it's a perfect game. And that anything can happen nature of it is really compelling. Also, why talking about the weather is actually good for you and simple techniques to improve any relationship right away. One of the things that we know based on decades of relationship science is that the smallest little injections of positivity can make all the difference. All this today on Something You Should Know. This is an ad for BetterHelp. Welcome to the world.

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Starting point is 00:01:58 That's BetterHelp.com. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi. Welcome to another interesting episode of Something You Should Know. And we start today with beauty and health advice you may have heard from your mom. Moms have been passing down this advice for generations, and some of it just ain't so.

Starting point is 00:02:34 For instance, crossing your legs will give you varicose veins. Not likely. Actually, it's primarily genetics that determine if you get them, and crossing your legs has little, if anything, to do with it. Applying Preparation H under your eyes will reduce puffiness. Some people swear it works, but there is no evidence that it does. In fact, it can cause a rash on your skin and it can be very irritating if it actually gets in your eye. Eating Jell-O will make your nails stronger.

Starting point is 00:03:03 That's not possible. Nothing in gelatin has any effect on your nails. Lack of sleep causes dark circles under your eyes. Well, those circles under your eyes may make you look tired, but they're not from lack of sleep. Dark circles tend to run in families and are often the result of dilated blood vessels, pigmentation, sun damage, and age-related thinning of the skin.

Starting point is 00:03:27 And this one, this one's been around forever. Eating chocolate will give you acne. Actually, it will not. Eating lots of any starchy and sugary foods may worsen acne, but nothing specifically in chocolate is related to acne. And that is something you should know. Chances are you are a sports fan or you live with or work with sports fans. Professional and college sports are huge.

Starting point is 00:03:59 And yet with all that's been written about sports in books and magazines and blogs and talked about on podcasts and radio and portrayed in movies and television, there isn't much about the fans. And yet sports without the fans, well, it's just a bunch of people playing a game. The fans are the biggest part. So writer Larry Olmsted decided to take a close look at sports fans, who they are, why they're fans, and what, if anything, does being a sports fan do for you? He's written a book about it called Fans, How Watching Sports Makes Us Happier, Healthier, and More Understanding. Hey, Larry, welcome. Oh, it's great to be with you. When you look at sports fans, in essence, sports fans are people, a lot of people, watching other people play a game.

Starting point is 00:04:52 What is it about watching other people play a game that pulls people in and makes them such big fans? You know, I've given that a lot of thoughts because people who aren't sports fans say, oh, it's a waste of time watching, but they never say that about watching movies or Broadway plays. It seems specific to sports, so I tried to really figure out what's different between sports and kind of every other form of popular entertainment. And I think the two big things are, for fans, most people want a sense of community, belonging. It's human nature in our DNA to be tribal creatures. And sports gives you that in a really accessible way that, you know, other kinds of entertainment don't. You know, you feel like if you're, you know, whatever, a Mets fan, you feel like you're part of the crowd, even when you're watching alone at home,

Starting point is 00:05:42 which like I'm a Star Wars fan, but I don't get that. When I watch Star Wars on my couch, I know I'm just watching a movie. I don't feel transported. So that's one big part of it is this just sense of community. And the other thing is the unpredictable real-time nature of sports. You know, it defies our DVR streaming culture because it's no fun if you know what happens before you watch it. And again, you know, I didn't have to watch nine Star Wars movies to know the good guys were eventually

Starting point is 00:06:10 going to win. You know, most entertainment is predictable in that way, but sports is not. You have upsets and Cinderella stories, and you could be watching that game when it's a perfect game or a historic moment. And that sort of anything can happen nature of it is really compelling. Well, it's interesting what you said about community, because when you watch a Star Wars movie, and the good guys, when Han Solo and Luke Skywalker beat the bad guys, you as the movie watcher, the moviegoer, don't say, oh, we won. But you will often hear sports fans when their team wins say, oh, we won. They do. But actually what you bring up, it's sort of a classic of sports psychology research. A lot of times fans always say we won, but a lot of times they say they lost. And it's

Starting point is 00:06:59 like a psychological defense mechanism we have to distance ourselves from our team's failure, which is why, you know, even if your team is like 50-50 over the long term, studies have shown that sports fans gain happiness because the winning is more satisfying than the losing is disappointing, because we have a number of these kind of circuit breakers that allow us to overlook the losses. So every win is that much sweeter. And yes, you're right. They feel like, I mean, studies people say that even when they're cheering at home, they feel like they have an impact on the losses. So every win is that much sweeter. And yes, you're right. They feel like, I mean, studies people say that even when they're cheering at home, they feel like they have an impact on the game. It's also interesting to me to watch people

Starting point is 00:07:33 watching on television, criticizing the play, criticize, you know, why did he do that? Like, if I were a coach, I would have never done that. Like, they know better. Yeah, absolutely. And part of that was really, I think, driven a lot by the growth of sports talk radio, you know, in the past couple of decades, where there's a lot of opportunities for people to call in and kind of be Monday morning quarterbacks. It's made everybody more critical. But one of the more interesting,

Starting point is 00:08:09 you know, I didn't know what I would find when I decided to see what being a sports fan did to us. And one of the sort of unforeseen benefits is it's really good for your brain and cognitive ability, especially fighting cognitive decline as we age. And it's very similar to like if you do Sudoku or crossword puzzles every day. It's a real exercise for your brain. And that's gotten even more so with all of the new statistics, especially baseball, the kind of money ball, saber metrics. People have to be more intellectual about their approach to being sports fans in order to be critical and be informed and especially and also to play fantasy sports. Yeah, I want to talk more about the benefits because I don't think people ever think about that. And it's pretty interesting that there are these benefits. But before we get into that, fundamentally, what do you think is the difference between the person who says, you know, sports are a waste of time or they're a very passive sports watcher, you know, they'll watch the World Series or they'll watch the Super Bowl, but, you know, that's about it, versus the guy who, like, goes to the games, has the chart, is keeping, you know, statistics on his little, on his phone app or

Starting point is 00:09:16 whatever. What's the difference between those people? Well, I mean, one is, you know, most people like sports. More than 50% of people identify themselves as sports fans, but, you know, not everyone does, just like not everyone likes rock music or something. So, you know, most people like sports. More than 50% of people identify themselves as sports fans. But, you know, not everyone does, just like not everyone likes rock music or something. So, you know, there's some people who just don't like sports. But I have found that a lot of people who say that, oh, I'm not a sports fan, it's a waste of time. When you dig into it, they have a lot of accepts. You know, except when I watched, you know, the Bulls win three titles when I lived in Chicago. You know, they still watch sports even though they say they don't.

Starting point is 00:09:47 So, you know, that's a big part of it. But I think what I really found is the portrayal of the sports fan in the media, especially Hollywood TV sitcoms, I took a pretty deep dive. I looked at every basically sitcom and movie that depicted sports fans that I could find, and it's universally negative. They're portraying this kind of overweight guy who is excluding his family, drinking too much with other overweight guys, dressed in uniforms in their basement, making fools of themselves,

Starting point is 00:10:14 like the Saturday Night Bears skit. And so I think a lot of non-fans actually believe that as a perception of sports fans. And so then it's not just like a waste of time. It's a negative. But that stereotype just is not true. Well, it also seems that, well, at least for me, I was much more of a sports fan as a kid and less so as an adult. And I know a lot of people are even probably more sports fans as adults.

Starting point is 00:10:43 But I kind of, I don't know, I don't want to say I grew out of it, but I mean, I was a Yankees fan. I grew up in Connecticut and, you know, I got to meet some of the big Yankees. I was really into it. Not so much anymore. Yeah, I mean, there's a variety of reasons. One is, you know, you typically have less time, leisure time as you get older. You know, when you're a kid, you don't have kids. You don't have a lot of, you don't have a job, you don't have responsibilities.

Starting point is 00:11:09 But, you know, in particular, baseball, you know, has seen a decline in fandom, you know, that, well, you know, the NFL and the NBA have gone up. And part of it is, you know, that our society in general, we live in a time where we have a shorter attention span. Everything is more at a premium on time, and baseball takes a really long time. And baseball is cognizant of that. They've been trying to make rule changes to speed up the game. But, you know, it's hard to commit, you know, three hours to watch a game when there's 160 games a season. Well, and there's also the cost. The cost of going to a game has certainly gone up, and that's got to be, you know, make people stop and think before they plop down the money. The negatives I came away with is how corporate some live sports have gotten, how expensive. You mentioned the Yankees. My wife is from the Bronx. When we lived in New York, we used to go to Yankees games and get the cheap seats.

Starting point is 00:12:09 There are no cheap seats anymore. My dad would take me to Mets games. I grew up in Queens, and again, we would sit in the cheap seats. It's become harder for families to do that because it's so expensive. Then when you get the people who really feel like they have to buy licensed logo merchandise and $12 light beers and things, it can add up very quickly. But that's sort of the beauty of spectator sports is how diverse and democratic the way you can enjoy it is. You can spend nothing except your cable bill, or you can spend a ton of money and travel and go to the Super Bowl. So let's talk about the benefits of being a sports fan.

Starting point is 00:12:45 I mean, who's looked at this, and when did somebody come up with the idea that maybe there are benefits here? There's benefits on several levels, but really the mental health benefits, which are, you know, short of the most provable, are also the newest. It's really maybe the last 30 years, and one of the sports, probably the leading sports psychologists in the the sports, probably the leading sports psychologists in the United States, probably the world, studying this particular issue is Dr. Dan Wan from Kentucky. And he did his first study on this about 30 years ago and was so sort of intrigued by the results that he kind of made it his life specialty. But now, in that 30 years, there have been hundreds of studies of sports fan mental health done around the world to fans of all ages, fans of all sports, professional, collegiate, everything, you know, cricket, rugby, soccer, as well as all our sports.

Starting point is 00:13:39 And no matter where they're done, they pretty much get, you know, exactly the same results, which is that there's a lot. I mean, psychologists have two dozen different distinct mental health benefits that sports fans enjoy more than non-fans, but things like higher self-esteem, lower rates of depression, more happiness with their social lives. And again, you know, a lot of those have a common thread, which is this feeling of community and belonging. And that's something that makes people happy. And sports offers it in a way that is super accessible and requires no membership applications. You don't have to pass a test to become a Yankees fan. We're talking about sports fans. And my guest is Larry Olmsted, author of the book, Fans, How Watching Sports Makes Us Happier, Healthier, and More Understanding. Whether in the game or in life, the right coverage can make all the difference.

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Starting point is 00:15:21 Then sit back and let your matches start the chat. Download Bumble and try it for yourself. So Larry, are there big differences between either countries or fans of different sports or is a sports fan a sports fan? Well, for the most part, a sports fan is a sports fan. The biggest distinction would be most of the studies that have been done are fans of team sports, which, again, is most sports fans. And most sports fans follow between five and six different sports. So, you know, that could be college football and pro football.

Starting point is 00:15:57 But the one, you know, sort of odd man out or the outlier would be a person who only follows a non-team sport, like golf or tennis is the only thing they watch. And they still get a lot of the same joys, but it's different because they don't get that kind of community aspect because there is no team, you know, and if you're a Tiger Woods fan, you know, Tiger Woods is someday going to stop playing golf, but presumably the Yankees will be here when we're all dead. So, you know, that would be the biggest difference, but there's very few people who only, you know, follow one sport. And then internationally, the big difference is college sports are huge in the United States. I mean, college football is ahead of baseball in terms of professional baseball, in terms of viewership. College basketball is huge, and they just don't

Starting point is 00:16:44 have college sports anywhere else, anywhere near the way we have in the U.S. That's why when I talk to people in Europe, they're confused. And Americans don't typically think of that, but there's no equivalent. You know, they have like the Henley Regatta where Oxford and Cambridge go in row, but there's no organized collegiate sports leagues in the rest of the world like we have. So it's a whole huge second infrastructure of sports that's distinctly American. It would seem that maybe that collegiate sports fans are a little different than professional

Starting point is 00:17:15 sports fans. Often it's, you know, the school you went to, or, you know, at least the conference in which the school you went to, or, you know, that there's a different connection. I don't know if it's better or worse, but, or is it? Yeah, it is. I mean, because people, you know, people say, you know, you're my team or I, you know, I like the Red Sox because, but the reality is, is choosing a sports team is basically exactly the same as choosing a religion, which means you don't really choose it. You're born into it.

Starting point is 00:17:45 And the two biggest factors for both what religion you follow and what sports team you follow are where you were born and what your parents believed. So, you know, I tell New York Giants fans, hey, if you'd been born in Dallas, you'd be Cowboy fans, and they get upset, but, you know, it's true. But college is different because it's something you come to later in life. It's, you know, unless you grew up in a big college town, it's typically driven by where you went, which is a little bit more of a choice. And it comes later.

Starting point is 00:18:15 But I would say, you know, I get asked a lot, which city has the most passionate sports fans? And there's no real answer because they're differently passionate in Philadelphia and Denver and some of the big sports cities. But of all sports fans, I think the most passionate are probably the big-time college football fans, especially that kind of University of Alabama, Michigan, Texas-type schools. I mean, I didn't know until I wrote this book that you could buy official NCAA logo coffins and be buried in, like in your University of Alabama coffin.

Starting point is 00:18:45 And that's something Yankee fans aren't doing. So that's pretty impressive. Good Lord. Can you imagine? I can't. But now that I've talked to a lot of fans, I can imagine why they do. And you see, one of the other things I never thought of before I wrote this book in the same vein is, if you drive America's roads, highways, you see

Starting point is 00:19:05 sports teams bumper stickers all the time, right? You know, my next door neighbor, I live in New England, has both a Patriots and a Red Sox bumper sticker on his pickup truck, but I've never seen a Harry Potter or a Star Wars bumper sticker or even a Beatles, you know. So the way people, you know, choose to adorn themselves with sports logos, memorabilia, team identification is extremely distinctive to sports. It does seem that they're kind of lifelong fans, tend to be lifelong fans, I guess, right? It seems that way. Although, like, when I moved from the East Coast to the West Coast, it's kind of hard

Starting point is 00:19:41 to be a Yankees fan here. So yeah, I'm more of a Dodgers fan now, although I wouldn't consider myself a big diehard Dodgers fan. But it's hard to stay loyal to a team when no one else around you is and you're a million miles away. Yeah, absolutely. I have a good friend who moved from Boston to Seattle years ago, big Patriots fan, and now a big Seahawks fan. But if the Patriots and the Seahawks played in the Super Bowl, he would still be supporting the Patriots. And I would imagine you would probably still be supporting the Yankees. And one of the

Starting point is 00:20:15 interesting things I looked at, you know, sports team vanity license plates, which almost every state offers. And it's odd, again, because it's the only for-profit business that you can get a license. You can't get a Chevrolet license plate for your Chevrolet, but you can get a Yankees license plate from the government, which is kind of odd in itself. But California is one of the only states that doesn't do it. And so you can't get a Dodgers license plate in California, but you can still get a Dodgers license plate in New York all these years later. So I find that pretty interesting. When you did the research for this, because you probably have taken a dive into this more than most,

Starting point is 00:20:53 what are some of the things that really surprised you that we haven't talked about yet? Yeah, to me, the big thing is the societal benefits. I mean, yep, it makes sense to me that, you know, watching football makes you happy, then watching football makes you happy. You know, it's sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy, a lot of the happiness, and then you enjoy benefits from that. You know, being happy is important to your health. But it's really the bigger picture things, like the role of sports fandom in the civil rights movement, in the women's rights movement, now in the social justice movement the uh uh you know it's really profound and if you look at like the jackie robinson story is sort of the number one example there's lots of

Starting point is 00:21:32 others but you know that predates basically what historians identify as the civil rights movement and was a huge moment pivotal watershed moment in american history made possible by sports fans. And there's a lot of those. And then the other big thing is the post-traumatic healing power of sports after man-made and natural disasters. And, you know, I lived in New York. I actually used to work in the World Trade Center. So like I very vividly remember that first Mets game after 9-11, baseball had been suspended or all sports had been suspended. The first game played in New York City after the resumption was this Braves-Mets game. Everyone around the country watched, and I have fans, people quoted in the book who were there who told me that was the

Starting point is 00:22:17 moment it was okay to smile again, the moment it was okay to laugh, to clap. And I remember that, but I thought at the time that that was sort of a one-off, but it's not. I traced the history, and after hurricanes, after Katrina, after tsunamis in the Far East, even now with the pandemic, I mean, sports is playing the same role. It's a place when you feel it's safe to go back out and be a member of society and gather and sit next to strangers and express joy. Well, you know, there's no better place to do that than a sports stadium, which, you know, our biggest stadiums are bigger than the biggest mosques and cathedrals and synagogues. There's no sort of public gathering place in America where you can go be part of society again, more distinctly than at a sporting event. And, you know, and that has just gone on after the Boston Marathon bombing, after the Las Vegas shooting massacre. I went out there and I interviewed

Starting point is 00:23:10 people who, one after another, told me how basically the Las Vegas Golden Knights NHL expansion team saved their lives. And it's, you talk to enough people like that, then you, you know, I had my aha moment. You can't trivialize it. You can't say sports is a waste of time. It's a, it's a vital part of the fabric of our society. Why do you think that some sports are so much more popular than others? You know, where soccer is such a big sport around the world, but not so much here. Hockey is not, you know, people go to hockey games, but not the way they go to baseball games. What is it about some sports versus other sports that make them so desirable? Yeah, I mean, a lot of it has to just do with historical kind of happenstance.

Starting point is 00:23:59 I mean, hockey is basically traditionally a cold weather sport until, you know, technology came along, you could only play it in cold weather. You know, you couldn't build a hockey stadium in Florida, you know, Florida before you had the technology to do that. So it tends to be Scandinavian countries, northern parts of Russia, Canada, you know, it kind of makes sense. The soccer one is more, I think just happens, the American experience, you know, ever since 1776, you know, we've kind of wanted to create our own things, right? Baseball, basketball, our sports, football, that we created out of whole cloth rather than adopting what was already the norm, you know, elsewhere. And soccer in particular really lends itself to not having a lot of means. I've, you I've traveled all over the world. I've been to a

Starting point is 00:24:46 lot of less developed countries, and you see soccer fields everywhere. And sometimes they're not fields. Sometimes they're paved lots. Sometimes they're gravel. Sometimes the net or the goal is a bunch of two-by-fours or PVC pipes arranged, but it's distinctive. You look and you say, huh, somebody plays soccer there. There's a big field with two kind of goal-looking structures, and all the kids in this town need to play soccer is a ball. They don field with two kind of goal-looking structures, and all the kids in this town need to play soccer is a ball. They don't need shoes. They don't need gear. They just need a ball. So it's very easy access, grassroots all over the world. But America had the benefit of having been a fairly wealthy nation from the get-go, especially as organized sports arrived.

Starting point is 00:25:21 So I think that's why we have gravitateditated towards sports that if you have parents who play youth sports, you know, are very expensive in terms of equipment and travel. You know, youth hockey is a lot of money to play just in gear. Since this is a topic that people don't think about in the way that you've written about it and the way that you speak about it, what do you think is the big takeaway from this? To look at sports through this different lens? What do we get from it? When I set out, I was trying to find out, you know,

Starting point is 00:25:52 what being fans did to us. And what I found out was really that, you know, in addition to us individually, sports fandom plays a continuous and very present role in world affairs and the life we live around us. And I think that if you're a non-fan, if you're that person who thinks it's a waste of time, then you should educate yourself to realize that sports fandom has made your life and your world, you live in a better place even if you never watched a game. To me, that was sort of the big takeaway. You can't avoid the benefits of sports fandom even if you don't watch sports

Starting point is 00:26:24 because they make us a more democratic, more tolerant society. Well, this is so interesting, because as you said right at the very beginning, a lot has been written about sports, but very little about the sports fan, because when people write about sports, they write about the sport and the players. But the fans are such an important part of the equation that no one ever really talks about. And I think it's really important to understand that part of the equation because without it, you know, sports ain't much. Larry Olmsted's been my guest. The name of the book is Fans, How Watching Sports Makes Us Happier, Healthier, and More Understanding. And you'll find a link to that book in the show notes. Thanks, Larry. Thanks for being here today. This is fun.

Starting point is 00:27:08 Thank you very much for having me. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like something you should know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman

Starting point is 00:27:36 who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes. Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back, and in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed critical thinker.

Starting point is 00:28:10 Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. People who listen to something you Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft

Starting point is 00:28:53 AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson, discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. We all have different kinds of relationships throughout our lives. Family, romantic, sibling relationships, friendships, and they're all unique.

Starting point is 00:29:40 Maintaining those relationships can sometimes be a challenge. In fact, they can often be a challenge. It would certainly be nice if relationships went more smoothly. But they don't unless you keep working at it. And here with some really great advice on what it means to do exactly that is Carol Brees. She is a social scientist who has a great TED Talk on messy relationships. The link for that will be in the show notes. And she is also author of a book called What Happy Couples Do. Hi, Carol. Welcome. Happy to be here. So what are the things

Starting point is 00:30:12 you think we all need to do or could do to have better relationships? Well, it's a really good question, isn't it? It's like, how do we do relationships well? This is probably the most common question I get as someone who has spent my entire career studying relationships. It's like, what does that look like? And one of the things that I remind people is that our relationships need maintenance. Just like we maintain our cars, our health, our bank accounts, our hair color, our bicep muscles, you know, we intentionally work on

Starting point is 00:30:56 so many other parts of our lives, our lawns and our wardrobes and our Instagram feeds, we also have to put in maintenance into our relationships. And so when we do that, for instance, when we are, if we're thinking about marriage or romantic relationships, we call it filling our emotional bank accounts. When we're doing that, and then we do have conflict, which is natural, we're less likely to think the worst, for instance, about the other person because our emotional bank account is a little bit more full. We're likely to give that person the benefit of the doubt instead of spiraling, for instance, into thinking the worst or reacting most negatively, very strongly with a negative defensive reaction. So it's about learning how to engage in conflict in a way that removes any expression of contempt or defensiveness or those kinds of stances where you take the, well, I'm better than you. We call that the cancer of relationships. And it's about coming into

Starting point is 00:32:27 conversations, even those that are intense and high conflict with a curiosity of, wow, how could you perhaps see that so differently than I do? So put that into practice for me. Describe how doing what you just said would go in a relationship. One of the things that we know based on decades of relationship science is that the smallest little injections of positivity between two spouses can make all the difference. So for instance, if day after day, a spouse is scanning her environment, their environment, his environment, and looking for what's going right and saying out loud something that appreciates that other person. So for instance, you come home at the end of the day and you intentionally

Starting point is 00:33:37 look around for what has gone well and you say that out loud, like, hey, thanks for bringing in the recycling bins, or, you know, hey, thanks so much for picking up the kids. It was such a crazy day. The relationship science says that our relationships thrive on that kind of positivity. In fact, the difference between the marriages that are going to likely make it for the long haul and those that are likely to end is the difference between significant more doses of positivity. In fact, eight to 10 times more of those positive moments than negative moments. Which so often does not happen. It's just the other way around. Exactly. What happens when we are in relationships over time is we tend to disintegrate to the negative. We tend to disintegrate into

Starting point is 00:34:50 criticizing what's not going well, complaining about what the other person is not doing. And yet we forget that these micro moments of positivity are really, they're the food and the nourishment of relationships. And it can be just as simple as thanks for taking out the trash? Exactly. So, Mike, one of the things that all of us humans have in common is that we want to feel valued. Right. And so even the idea that a spouse might not say out loud, hey, honey, thanks for filling up the car with gas. Even if you just think it and notice the positive and think, wow, I'm grateful to be married to this person, that thought pattern actually will likely, according to the social science, manifest in more generous behavior to your spouse. And it tends to then grow in a positive force. So what's fascinating, Mike, is that relationships tend to work on centrifugal forces. So positivity begets more positivity. When you feel valued and appreciated, you're more likely to do things that will value and appreciate the other and then they feel it and it's this growing energy and think of it in the opposite too. Negativity in any relationship tends to beget negativity. And then that spiral picks up energy.

Starting point is 00:36:50 But in every relationship, it can't all be, you know, peaches and cream, roses and sunshine. There are going to be problems. You can't just focus on the positive and ignore the negative. And when we're in those conversations, some might call them conflict conversations, positivity still matters in those conversations. So one of the differences, for instance, between marriages that are likely to fail and those that are likely to make it the long haul are couples who can come into difficult conversations softly. They start those conversations, the first three minutes of their conversations, they're not harsh. They come into that conversation not like, Mike, I can't believe you didn't. And I'm, right, that tone, you know, voice, that sense of belligerence. Softness sounds more like, hey, you know, Mike, I'm wondering if we could set aside, you know, a few minutes to just talk about something that is just, you know, it's been on my mind. The difference in those first moments of a conflict, according to the best marriage science

Starting point is 00:38:15 in the world from the Gottman Relationship Institute, predicts the difference between the marriage masters and the marriage disasters. And so one of the things I love about getting to study relationships is that there's a lot of good news in learning a few very tiny shifts in your behavior that have these massive positive outcomes. So teach us all that. I bet everybody is waiting with bated breath to hear how to do that. One of the things that we know based on the science of studying couples is that the couples who are able to respond positively, and by positively, I mean, acknowledge the other person when they make what's called a bid for connection.

Starting point is 00:39:18 And a bid for connection is any little moment, for instance, when your spouse or partner is expressing interest in something, it might just be like, hey, honey, look, there's a cute dog walking down the street. The couples who are able to turn toward their partner's bids for connection most of the time are the couples that are going to likely make it for the long haul. Because we forget that what it feels like when someone does not respond to our bid for connection. Hey, honey, look at that cute dog walking down the street. And the other person responds in silence. There's that little moment of feeling ignored. It's that little moment of perhaps feeling like what I see is not important to you. And it might sound so small, right, like tiny, but when you think about,

Starting point is 00:40:30 let's say, long-term marriage or even family relationships, those little drops in the bucket of either positive, turning toward each other, or turning away, which again can be ignoring. And sometimes it's not intentional, but it has the same impact. It's like, wow, what I see, what I'm interested in isn't important to you. And those are little drops in the bucket that can overflow at some point. And so when your spouse says, look at that cute little dog, a good response to that would be? A good response would be any response. But the best response would be, oh, well, tell me about why you think those dogs are cute. Any response that suggests that you're interested in knowing more about why they're observing whatever they're observing.

Starting point is 00:41:41 Let me use another example. So a bid for connection can be nonverbal. So it can be a look. It could be a touch of the hand. So imagine you are sitting next to your six-year-old child and you're watching a movie and maybe it gets a little scary and your six-year-old leans close to you, that's a bid for connection. The turning toward the what we want as humans is to be acknowledged even without having to say, that, hey, you know, I'm here for you. So it could be putting your hand on your six-year-old's hand or pulling a blanket and pulling them in more closely. So when this happens, for instance, let's say in a marriage, let's say you're out for a walk and your spouse reaches over and grabs your hand, a bid for connection.

Starting point is 00:42:49 A turning away might be, oh, my hand's too warm right now. There are so many bids for connections. There's actually hundreds of bids for connection happening every day, all day in our relationships. And one of the most important things we can do is start to recognize what those bids are and then more intentionally try to acknowledge them, try to respond a bit more positively. It's interesting. We don't have any trouble responding to the negativity and the criticism and the complaints. It's easy to spot those things and argue about them, but it's hard to see those bids for connection. And you just nailed it right there, is that one of the things that we tend to do is we start to sort of thrive on the negativity and we respond to it, right? Because we're human.

Starting point is 00:43:46 So we are programmed as humans to defend ourselves. We're programmed to defend the people around us, right? Like our family, our unit. And yet we forget that bringing down our defenses when we're in conversations with others with whom we have a relationship can be one of the most profound ways we build intimate connection. One of the most profound ways that we build in relationship to one another something that is really life-giving. Because when we're defensive, we're pushing the other person away, right? And defensiveness engages so many of our interesting sort of adrenal mechanisms in our body, right? No one does conflict well. It doesn't matter if it's a work conflict, a spouse, a parent-child, when your adrenal glands are on overdrive, right? Like you don't think clearly. You stop breathing. You say things that you wish you could

Starting point is 00:45:00 take back. And so when we start to recognize that, whoa, wait a second, you and I are on the same team. I don't need to get defensive when you bring up the fact that the house isn't as clean as you would like it to be. That's when some pretty big breakthroughs can happen. Because what happens, this whole idea of more positive than negative and focusing and reinforcing what someone does right, what goes on there that makes this so powerful? So it's an interesting question, right? So at the base of us as humans, we want to be part of something bigger than ourselves. And we'll

Starting point is 00:45:47 like the feeling of being rewarded. So one of the things, for instance, in marriage, and I'm using marriage as an example, because I study marriage more than any other kind of relationship, is that one of the strategies that spouses can use, and you don't even need to tell your partner or spouse you're doing this, but you can start to choose to ignore all of the things you want less of and verbally or otherwise reward the things you want more of. And over time, your spouse will do more of those things you want more of. And over time, your spouse will do more of those things you want more of. So it's interesting because we tend to think, oh, I need to correct this behavior. You know, my spouse is always late and I need to point it out. Like it drives me crazy that you're late.

Starting point is 00:46:40 And it's embarrassing that we show up late for, you know, this dinner or this meeting or whatever it is. And yet, if you were to spend your energy focused on the one or two times your spouse is on time and say, you know, thank you so much for getting home on time or for being in the car ready. It means a lot to me. Over time, they will more likely do the thing that you complimented as opposed to not do the thing that you complained about. What's interesting about your advice, and you've studied relationships certainly more than I have, is that the advice is pretty simple. This is not like complex stuff.

Starting point is 00:47:35 This is pretty easy to do if you make the intention to do it. So let's sum it all up. What's the prescription here? So my single best advice to people who want to work on a relationship is that you have to work on you first. You have to work on your mindset. You have to work on your choices. You have to work on choosing every single day to figure out what you are going to do to help maintain that relationship. What are the two things you're going to do this day to make a positive connection with fill in the blank, the person you care about, your spouse, your parent, your roommate, your friend. Because Mike, if I could have your listening audience repeat anything, it would be this two sentences. I can only change me. I cannot change others, right? I can only

Starting point is 00:48:49 change me. And yet we think that when we're in relationship to other people, we can change them. And I think this is sort of the secret sauce, right? By me changing me, choosing what I want to focus on, choosing the kinds of behaviors of the people around me I want to reward and affirm and acknowledge and appreciate, I am changing the relationship. And I think it's so empowering because humans like to reciprocate what they're given. So if you're given a lot of value and you're given a lot of appreciation, you're more likely to give that right back. Right? Because it feels good. And yet we so often focus on the negative and what's wrong with the other person, the friend, the wife, the husband, the mother-in-law, whatever it is. We focus on what they're doing wrong. My therapist friends, and I'm not a relationship therapist, I don't have that gift,

Starting point is 00:49:52 but my therapist friends will say that almost every couple or every family that comes into therapy does so with a long list of things that are wrong about the other people in that relationship. And almost never do they bring a long list of things that they themselves could do differently. And I think that's so important to keep in mind because, again, we have to do the work on us before and as we do the work of these complex, messy relationships. just said that they could apply to their own relationship to make it better. And it's really interesting to get it from someone who's really on really the cutting edge of relationship science. Carol Brees has been my guest. She is a social scientist. She has a great TED Talk on messy relationships, and I'll put the link into that TED Talk in

Starting point is 00:50:59 the show notes. She's also author of a book called What Happy Couples Do. And there's also a link to that. Thank you, Carol. Thanks, Mike. This has been really, really fun. If you're ever stuck for a topic of conversation, don't be afraid to start a conversation about the weather. A survey shows that most of us discuss the weather a lot. On average, six months of our lives are dedicated to weather statistics. Women do it even more than men.

Starting point is 00:51:33 And believe it or not, it tops love life, chat, and gossip as a topic of conversation. And it may come as no shock that older people love talking about the weather. They topped all groups. And seniors also believe that they can predict the weather better than professional forecasters. And that is something you should know. As you know, if you listen to this podcast, I often at the end here ask you to share this podcast with a friend. And well, today I'm going to ask you to share it with two friends, because doing so really helps to support this podcast by helping us grow our audience. And your friends deserve a good podcast to listen to. And this is one. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Hey, hey, are you ready for some

Starting point is 00:52:23 real talk and some fantastic laughs? Join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa Demonts, for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? We're serving up four hilarious shows every week designed to entertain and engage and, you know, possibly enrage you. In Don't Blame Me, we dive deep into listeners' questions, offering advice that's funny, relatable, and real. Whether you're dealing with relationship drama or you just need a friend's perspective, we've got you. Then switch gears with But Am I Wrong, which is for listeners who didn't take our advice and want to know if they are the villains in the situation.

Starting point is 00:52:55 Plus, we share our hot takes on current events and present situations that we might even be wrong in our lives. Spoiler alert, we are actually quite literally never wrong. But wait, there's more. Check out See You Next Tuesday, where we reveal the juicy results from our listener polls from But Am I Wrong? And don't miss Fisting Friday, where we catch up, chat about pop culture, TV, and movies. It's the perfect way to kick off your weekend. So if you're looking for a podcast that feels like a chat with your besties, listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong on Apple Podcasts,

Starting point is 00:53:24 Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a co-founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network called The Search for the Silver Lightning, a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. During her journey, Isla meets new friends, including King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table, and learns valuable life lessons with every quest, sword fight, and dragon ride. Positive and uplifting stories remind us all about

Starting point is 00:54:03 the importance of kindness, friendship, honesty, and positivity. Join me and an all-star cast of actors, including Liam Neeson, Emily Blunt, Kristen Bell, Chris Hemsworth, among many others, in welcoming the Search for the Silver Lining podcast to the Go Kid Go network by listening today. Look for the Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Something You Should Know - SYSK Choice: What Watching Sports Does to You & What Happy Couples Do

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