Something You Should Know - SYSK Choice: What Your Dog is Really Thinking & Why Superstitions Actually Work

Episode Date: December 7, 2019

What’s the best way to deal with a jerk? Well, according to psychiatrist Dr. Mark Goulston, there is one word that will shut them up – and it is kind of fun to watch. That’s first up today on this episode of the podcast. Plus, what does your dog really think about? Probably not what you think. Camilla Gray-Nelson, author of Lipstick & the Leash: Dog Training a Woman’s Way (http://amzn.to/2mkKr5Z) offers some amazing insight into what’s really going on inside that little doggie brain. Then, knowing what your dog is thinking, you can then train and relate to them in a way that works for everyone. Then, do you believe in magical thinking? Maybe you knock on wood or use a lucky charm or wear you lucky shirt. And deep down inside you know there is nothing to it really – but you do it anyway. So what’s this all about? Matthew Hutson, author of The 7 Laws of Magical Thinking (http://amzn.to/2lUpH8R) explores why virtually everyone (even skeptics) across all cultures engages in magical thinking. And he reveals how magical thinking can actually work – like magic! Finally, when you go on a trip, why does it seem that the trip back home is shorter than the trip there? There is actually an interesting psychological phenomenon at work. I’ll explain what it is in today’s episode. https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2015/06/why-the-trip-back-always-feels-shorter/395714/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As a listener to Something You Should Know, I can only assume that you are someone who likes to learn about new and interesting things and bring more knowledge to work for you in your everyday life. I mean, that's kind of what Something You Should Know was all about. And so I want to invite you to listen to another podcast called TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done TED Talks. Well, you see, TED Talks Daily is a podcast that brings you a new TED Talk every weekday in less than 15 minutes. Join host Elise Hu.

She goes beyond the headlines so you can hear about the big ideas shaping our future. Learn about things like sustainable fashion, embracing your entrepreneurial spirit, the future of robotics, and so much more. Like I said, if you like this podcast, Something You Should Know, I'm pretty sure you're going to like TED Talks Daily. And you get TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts. Today on Something You Should Know, the next time you have to deal with a jerk, there is one word that will almost always stop him in his tracks. Plus, you love your dog and you probably assign your dog some human qualities.

But do you know what your dog is really thinking? What a dog wants to know most of all is who's in charge here. And instead of thinking how can I please you, what a dog is really doing is trying to figure out how can I avoid displeasing my boss and my leader. Also, when you take a car trip, why does the trip there always seem longer than the trip home? And magical thinking, lucky charms, superstitions, could they actually work? There is research showing that people who thought they were using a lucky golf ball sunk 35% more golf putts than people who thought they were using a normal golf ball. All this today on Something You Should Know. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world,

looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives, and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity, wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars.

Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers.

Hi, welcome to Something You Should Know, where we are officially in the holiday spirit here. Most of us are, anyway. I know I often ask you to share this podcast with someone you know, and I know you're busy, especially this time of year. But as a Christmas gift to me, in exchange for the now 350 episodes of Something You Should Know, tell someone you know to give this podcast a try, and that would be the greatest gift of all. We start today by talking about jerks.

Ever had to deal with a jerk? Or work for a jerk? I know I've come across more than my share in my life. If you ever do have to deal with a jerk, you know that reasoning with them or arguing with them doesn't really work. According to psychiatrist Mark Goulston, who's a really interesting guy, and he's written a book called Just Listen, there is one word that usually stops a jerk right in his tracks. The word is, huh? If you say it in a mild, neutral tone, the jerk will have to stop, regroup, and repeat.

It suggests that what the jerk is saying makes no sense to you, and that you're not about to engage because you don't understand what he's talking about. Dismissing a toxic personality is usually the most effective course of action, according to Dr. Goulston. An awkward pause can be helpful, too. The longer you wait before responding to a jerk, the more you can emotionally distance yourself, and this really throws them off. They may go on and on, but you're less likely to get upset. That silence can work like an echo and give them a chance to hear what a jerk they actually are. And that is something you should know. I've had dogs all my life, and I think it's natural to feel as if they're one of

the family and that they would protect us. And you often hear stories of dogs doing heroic things. And in movies and TV shows like Lassie, when Timmy falls down the well, as he seemed to do a lot, Lassie would do anything to try to save Timmy. But how realistic is that? What are dogs really thinking? Here to discuss dog behavior and dog thinking and how to train your dog to do what you want it to do is Camilla Grayelson. She's author of the book Lipstick and the Leash, Dog Training a Woman's Way. Welcome, Camilla. So if I fell down the well instead of Timmy, how likely is it my dog would sense that I was in danger and would want to do something to help? Because I'm thinking that what my dog would probably do is eat the sandwich that I left

on the side of the well before I fell down. It's a lovely thought to think that our dog has feelings like humans, that they would save us from the well if we fall in. But the fact is, as with so many myths, it just isn't so. The problem with the Lassie syndrome myth is that not only does it give us false expectations of what our dogs should be and should do for us that a dog can never live up to, but it actually puts us in an unsafe predicament with our dogs sometimes, meaning we are not careful around dogs as the animals that they are, thinking that they are gentle, benign creatures that would never harm us. Yeah, I heard someone say, and maybe it was you being quoted somewhere, that you should never leave young

children alone with a dog. Well, that is so true, and nowhere is the true nature of the dog revealed in that advice, because dogs, after all, are predatory hunters. And there have been more than one case of a young child left alone with a dog that did not survive. That's a horrible thing to think about, but the fact is, dogs are hunters, and they are programmed to take advantage in their primordial state, in their instinctive state, to take advantage of the old and the young, the weak, not the strong. So if my dog is not thinking, how can I please you? How can I save you if you fall down the well? What is the dog, what is its motivation?

What is it thinking? What a dog wants to know most of all is who's in charge here. And instead of thinking, how can I please you, what a dog is really doing is trying to figure out how can I avoid displeasing my boss and my leader. Slightly different, but profoundly different in its application. Which is a very different mindset than what we think of that the dog is there to make us happy and to get our slippers and that kind of thing. If a dog were truly motivated by making us happy, I as a dog trainer would be out of business.

Because the dog would be pleasing us. If that's what they want to do, they would be doing it. But clearly, that's not the dog's motivation. The dog is built with an internal testing mechanism, testing behavior, trying certain things. What they're really doing with this behavior is they're testing, are you in charge of me? Who's going to stop me? Because the status of a dog in a social group is totally dependent on how he can control and limit the behaviors of others. So what does that mean to me as the dog owner in terms of do I need to tell the dog in some sort of dog language that I'm in charge here? The way to tell your dog you're in charge and hence to get your dog to

actually want to obey you because he sees you as the leader is nothing more complicated than setting boundaries, rules, reining in your dog's freedom. The moment you start reining in your dog's freedom, instead of letting the dog go where he wants, do what he wants, and have whatever he wants, the minute you start dialing back those freedoms, you have actually put yourself in a leadership position. And it's miraculous the change in your dog's behavior once you do that in a way that he understands from his cultural background.

Ooh, but what about that last part? I mean, how do you know what his cultural background is? He's a canine. That's what I mean. In the canine world, they are seeking a leader. They're hungry for a leader. But what most people mistake for leadership is raising your voice, being intimidating, wagging your finger and scolding your dog. You know, in his culture, that's the mark of a pretender, not a leader. Real leaders in the animal world, and this is true for all social mammals, not just dogs,

but people as well. In the animal world, true leaders are marked by cool and calm control of their emotions. They are unflappable in the face of conflict. They're unflappable. That's a mark of their confidence, which makes them rise to the top. When we give in to our emotions and we start to get angry, frustrated, and let that show, the dog is actually seeing weakness, not strength. And yet I see it so often in dog owners trying to take control, but doing it through anger and frustration and punishment, which actually doesn't work.

Well, but if you want to correct a behavior that the dog is doing, which is a negative behavior, pooping in the house or eating the furniture, how do you correct a negative behavior without pointing out that, hey, that's bad? You can correct a behavior by stopping it and limiting it. But if you do it without anger, that's the secret. You see, what I'll do, let's take, let's say, jumping, for example. What a dog does to stop another dog from jumping on him is to whip around and bark right in that dog's face. That bark is not angry. It's more pragmatic.

Basically, it says, excuse me, but I don't allow you to jump on me. They're not screaming when they do it. They're just pragmatically saying, I don't allow that. That's what I mean by boundaries. I can't bark like a dog. But what I do have is a little device, pennies in a can. I'm going to let you listen to it right now. Hear that? That had no emotion in it, but it was like a bark. It was a startling sudden noise that I can meet my dog's

jump with. Pardon the grammar. And the dog will understand, oh, I didn't like how that turned out for me. I'm not a bad dog. I just didn't like how that turned out for me. Dogs are results-driven, and you give a result that's slightly less pleasant than the behavior you want them to achieve, and they will avoid that behavior. Indeed, correction is absolutely necessary, but if it's infused with anger or made as punishment, then you go over into the dark side and it actually won't work. Well, what about when the dog does things when you're not around?

Well, what a good question is that? Dogs, as pack animals, are not designed to live alone. They do not have an off switch or a conscience because they were designed to live under the supervision of other dogs in a group situation 24-7. So what you have to do when you leave, if your dog is of an age where you're still experimenting with behaviors and waiting for someone to stop him, if you're not there to stop him,

you must confine the dog to a space where he's not able to live out his experimentations. He's not tempted by things. He can't pee on your carpet, destroy your shoes, steal food off the counter. Like I say, you lock the liquor cabinet when you leave. And that's sometimes creating the dog, sometimes putting them in a small room, sometimes an outdoor dog run, depending on your environment and your dog. Well, but it's hard to remember to do that all the time.

Well, that's not the dog's fault. I guess not. But we're having, you know... That is our responsibility. It's interesting, once you get into that mindset, though, and women can be quite good at this, because what do we do with two-year-olds when we need to take a shower, or a one-year-old? We put them in a playpen. See, you get into a mindset of when you can't supervise, you need to confine safely somehow. And so remembering to do that becomes second nature once you get into that habit.

But does the dog ever stop trying? Indeed, a dog will stop trying to bend the rules when he knows what the rules are. A dog will try to figure out the rules if they're not clear to him, and when they're in a young developmental stage. As a dog grows and matures and you have done a good job of keeping the rules consistent, they eventually stop trying as often. Here's my analogy. Dogs are like jello, and they're like soft jello when you first get a dog and you start training them into the ways of your home. You are the mold.

The dog is the jello. If you take the mold off too soon, you know what happens to the jello. Keep the mold on long enough until that dog is habituated into the form of the behaviors that you want, and then you can take the mold off, and the jello will retain its shape. The dog will be habituated to good behaviors. People take the mold off the jello. They take the rules away from the dog too soon,

or they never put it on at all. Do dogs, as you said earlier, are looking to know who's the leader, but do dogs ever say, hey, I want to be the leader? Oh, indeed, dogs say that. Dogs of a certain personality will say that routinely. And a dog that wasn't even born with the personality suited for the corner, you know, for the penthouse office, will take charge if nobody else does. They are so driven towards that organization that a dog will take charge if you don't. Now, the dogs that are born with confident personalities that, if in nature, left to

their own devices, would take the lead role. Those dogs are more challenging. They do not readily take orders because they feel they should be giving them. In my book, Lipstick and the Leash, I talk about how to deal with dogs of that ilk, or people, by the way. And it's a different kind of methodology. You come at things from the sides. You don't meet head-on. You avoid confrontation and argument, and you use sweet influence instead. When dogs jump over people when they come over, what are they doing? When dogs jump on you or others, it's an interesting behavior because it has multiple purposes. Yes, it's a greeting. Dogs jump on each other to greet.

It's also a very subtle testing and ranking ritual. A dog that's allowed to jump on another dog consistently is the dominant dog. A dog that's allowed to jump on you consistently without you ever saying, I don't allow that, can be led to believe that he has more power in their relationship or in the home than you do. So jumping is a ranking ritual as well as something that's fun. What I recommend for dogs that are crazy jumpers when guests arrive, have a leash handy. When the doorbell rings, put a leash on your dog's collar. You can control his behavior by that simple act and let him know subtly but clearly that you are running the show. That does seem to be the key, is to let them know that you are running the show.

And running the show does not involve yelling. Running the show is simply knowing what you want, following through and getting it, even if it takes a while. It's not how fast you get a response or obedience. It's the fact that you eventually get it. What I find as a dog trainer of 24 years and counting and after 10,000 plus clients, is that to a client, to a dog owner, they do not understand dogs. They've owned dogs. They've loved dogs. They've had many dogs, but they don't truly understand how the dog thinks, how his culture works, and how he's programmed by nature to act and react. Until you really understand a dog and dog life and dog culture, you cannot successfully train a dog.

Well, I know it's so easy to treat a dog like a member of the family and almost as if the dog is a person, but as you clearly pointed out, you know, people are people and dogs are dogs and we need to respect the differences. Camilla Gray Nelson has been my guest. She is author of the book Lipstick and the Leash, Dog Training a Woman's Way, and you'll find a link to her book in the show notes. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a co-founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network called The Search for the Silver Lightning, a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot.

During her journey, Isla meets new friends, including King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table, and learns valuable life lessons with every quest, sword fight, and dragon ride. Positive and uplifting stories remind us all about the importance of kindness, friendship, honesty, and positivity. Join me and an all-star cast of actors, including Liam Neeson, Emily Blunt, Kristen Bell, Chris Hemsworth, among many others, in welcoming the Search for the Silver Lining podcast to the Go Kid Go Network by listening today.

Look for the Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like something you should know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest. Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most.

Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes. Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts

a few years back, and in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed, critical thinker. Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show. There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get

your podcasts. Do you believe in magical thinking? You probably do. Almost everyone does, even if you claim you don't. You either have a lucky charm, or you perform a little ritual before you perform a task, or maybe you just knock on wood. And we do this because we like to think it helps, even though we think it probably doesn't. But maybe it does. And here to sort all this out is Matthew Hudson. He's the author of the book, The Seven Laws of Magical Thinking. Welcome, Matthew. And first, why don't you define what you mean by magical thinking? The technical definition that I give is the attribution of mental properties to non-mental phenomena and vice versa. So for instance, believing that natural events

have a purpose to them, or believing that your thoughts have some sort of force over the world. So examples of magical thinking would include belief in luck or destiny or karma or essences or mind over matter, that sort of thing. Or even just good luck charms. Exactly, yeah. All kinds of superstitious beliefs and rituals. Does everybody and does every culture engage in this somehow? Yes. As far as I know, every culture has certain magical and religious rituals and beliefs and traditions. And every individual person has a tendency to believe in these sorts of things. Even if they deny it, even if you call yourself a skeptic, you'll still find yourself doing little lucky rituals or feeling like something happened for a reason. Is there any reason to think it works? Well, I don't believe in real magic, so I don't think these

things work the way that people sometimes think they do, but magical thinking can provide a sense of control, and it can make you feel lucky. For instance, if you perform a little ritual, it can increase your self-confidence, and then that might lead to better performance and actual luck, which will then feel like the ritual or the lucky charm had some

effect. And there is research showing that people who thought they were using a lucky golf ball sunk 35% more golf putts than people who thought they were using a normal golf ball. Now that's fascinating. How could that be? Well the researcher proposed that it increases self-efficacy. So if you think that you're using a lucky golf ball, then you expect to perform well. And then it relaxes you, and then you actually do perform better. Even the people who don't necessarily believe it sort of believe it. That's the argument, yes.

A lot of magical thinking is subconscious. So even if you don't think that you believe in these things, these expectations can have sort of subtle subconscious effects on your behavior. Does talking about it like this ruin it? I think there hasn't been a lot of research on whether talking about cognitive biases can actually reduce them. So it's possible that if your defenses are up and you're aware of certain illusions and you realize that they're illusions, then you're less susceptible to them. On the other hand, it's possible that even if you know about them

and you're on lookout for them, they will still play a role in your life. Has anyone, maybe you have, or anyone done the research where you ask people who admit that they believe in it to some extent, where they have lucky numbers, or they have a a ritual or they have a good luck charm. And then ask them, do you really think it works? And what's the difference in the answers? I think that a lot of people will say, I don't believe that this little thing that I do works. I don't believe that it's magic.

I think that's all BS. But I do it anyway, just in case. For instance, personally, I knock on wood. I know that it probably has no physical effect on anything, but it still gives me peace of mind, so I do it anyway, because, you know, no harm. And if this stuff crosses cultures, and as you say, it's probably in every culture, there aren't a lot of places where this doesn't happen, what does that say? Is it human nature to need this? It seems that it is human nature. Magical thinking is a result of very basic cognitive biases,

very basic mechanisms and habits of mind. And it also is influenced by very basic human motivations, the desire to feel some sort of control over your environment, the desire to feel like life is meaningful and that there's a purpose to your existence. So both the habits of thinking that lead to magical thinking and the desire to believe in magic, both of those are universal. You talk, though, I mean, it's more than just the, you know,

I've got lucky numbers and maybe they'll win kind of thing. I mean, you talk about John Lennon's piano in the book about, I mean, that kind of magical thinking attaches value to a piano, or any other example you want to use, that's real dollars. Yes, magical thinking does have very real economic implications. The whole industry of celebrity memorabilia, people paying a lot of money for something that a movie star or a rock star owned or touched. So yes, you can put a dollar sign on how strongly people believe in these sorts of things. Yeah, because let's talk about John Lennon's piano.

I mean, the value of that piano just as a piano wasn't particularly spectacular. If John Lennon's piano had no special history, if it were not John Lennon's piano, or if people didn't know that it was John Lennon's piano, it would just be a regular old piano with some dings in it and no one would care. But the fact that it had this history of being the piano that the song Imagine was written on, it sold for a couple million dollars. And it gives people a lot of inspiration when they're around it and they get to touch it. So believing it makes it so, in a sense. I mean, if you believe this stuff,

whether you admit it or not, believing in it makes it so, and since it is so, it's part of who we are. A lot of this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you believe that something will increase your performance in a certain situation, then your beliefs play out in your own behavior. And so your expectations, in a sense, become real. My guest on the podcast today is Matthew Hudson, and his book is The Seven Laws of Magical Thinking. Hey, everyone, join me, Megan Rinks, and me, Melissa Demonts, for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? Each week, we deliver four fun-filledonts for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? Each week we deliver four fun filled shows. In Don't Blame Me, we tackle our listeners dilemmas with hilariously

honest advice. Then we have But Am I Wrong? Which is for the listeners that didn't take our advice. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events. Then tune in to see you next Tuesday for our listener poll results from But Am I Wrong? And finally, wrap up your week with Fisting Friday, where we catch up and talk all things pop culture. Listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. Do you love Disney? Then you are going to love our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and

family-friendly show, we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. There is nothing we don't cover. We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney themed games, and fun facts you didn't know you needed, but you definitely need in your life. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. Continuing our conversation here, Matthew, if you were to try and stop doing magical thinking, you could probably stop it for a little while, but sooner or later, it really is a part of us.

It really is hard to not do it. Exactly. I think being a skeptic is a lot harder than being a believer, because you're always having to stop yourself from believing in certain things. I think we are magical thinkers by default, and it takes a lot of effort and critical thinking to question and take apart these beliefs and say, no, no, that's not really how things are happening. This is the logical way to look at it. That's not how we naturally, instinctively think. Yeah.

Well, I imagine, and I don't want to get too far afield into the religious aspects of this, but believing in stuff like this does have a religious overtone to it. This is kind of what we have to believe in religion because we can't prove it. Definitely. There's an element of faith in a lot of this. Even if you can't apply the scientific method to a certain belief, you still have a sense that it's true. Or even you might even build your whole life around the sense that it's true. And so faith plays a role in all sorts of magical thinking. And religion is based on magical thinking.

It sounds perhaps pedantic to put it that way, but just in terms of the objective use of the term magical thinking, religion is based on magical thinking. Yeah. Was it in your book that I remember seeing recently the quote about the horseshoe over the door? Was that in your book? Yes.

There's an anecdote that the physicist Niels Bohr said that he, or a friend of his, kept a horseshoe over his door because it works even if you don't believe it does. But the psychology suggests that it only works if you believe that it does, and it works because you believe it does, because it makes you feel lucky, and then that influences your behavior and your luck. Right. And luck is perhaps differentiated

from chance. I mean, it doesn't improve your chances of winning the lottery, but it improves your chances of being lucky in other ways. Right. Something like a horseshoe won't increase your chances of winning the lottery because that's something that's completely out of your control? But let's say you go into a job interview feeling lucky. Then you'll feel very confident, and people will sense that, and you might have a better chance of getting the job. It's interesting, though, that people have these little rituals, good luck charms, beliefs, things that they hold on to that they think are lucky,

and then they rub the rabbit's foot or do the ritual before they, quote, try to perform, go into the job interview, make the speech. And they could fail miserably, but it doesn't dissuade them from the next time doing it again. Right. That's one of the... So people will continue using certain good luck charms even if they continue to not work. That's part of the element of faith in magical thinking. And it also demonstrates how we can twist situations and reinterpret them such that, let's say you use a lucky charm and then it doesn't work, you might blame the failure on something else and say, well, the lucky charm would have worked if this other thing wouldn't have happened. So you don't really give the thing a fair shot. You don't apply the scientific method rigorously to these things that you use in your daily life. It would seem that some people, you know, skeptics would say, you know, I don't believe in that. I don't do that. But, you know, we talked earlier that it's kind

of, it's human nature. So it would seem that it's almost impossible not to do this. Exactly. I would say that I'm about as skeptical as you can get, but I still see little bits of magical thinking in my own life. For instance, knocking on wood, or feeling like certain objects that were touched or owned by someone else are somehow special. So I'm a complete atheist. I don't believe in God. I don't believe in magic. I don't believe in any of this stuff, but I still see the tendencies in myself. Well, it's interesting, too, that people knock on wood, and that's a pretty universal thing. And I, for one, and I imagine I'm one of many, who don't even know why we knock on wood. What is knocking on wood supposed to do?

Well, the origin of knocking on wood, I believe it has something to do with tree spirits, but that's not really what people think about when they're knocking on wood. They just think of it as something that acts as a guard against something unfortunate happening to them. For instance, if you tempt fate, you might knock on wood. In one study, people were asked whether anyone in their family had had cancer or been in an accident. And after they said no, they would typically knock on wood

as if to signal that they were very aware that they were fortunate and they didn't want to be punished by being too, by showing hubris. Right. But it's interesting that they probably don't really know the origins of that or why. They just kind of learned it because somebody else they saw did it, or their parents did it, and they learned that that's what you do to kind of ward off bad luck. Exactly. A lot of superstitions are cultural traditions. You see someone else do it, or you hear about a certain act that is lucky or unlucky, and you integrate it into your own behavior

without really knowing why or how it's supposed to work. You just do it because you've heard that perhaps it works. Right. Why not? Yeah, and I guess that's why people do it. Why not? Matthew Hudson has been my guest. He's the author of the book, The Seven Laws of Magical Thinking, and you will find a link to that book in the show notes for this episode. Have you ever had the experience of taking a car trip and it took longer to get there,

it seems, than it took to get home? And one theory for why that happens is because we're familiar now with the route, so the return trip seems shorter, but that turns out to be incorrect. Scientists now believe that what's called the return trip effect has to do with expectations. People often underestimate how long getting there is going to take, so the experience feels longer because they expected it to be shorter. They then overestimate how long the return trip will take, and so that ends up feeling shorter. In one study, researchers at Tilburg University in the Netherlands set expectations by telling people that the outbound part of the trip was going to seem very long. When they did that, the return trip effect disappeared, and those people did not feel like the return trip was shorter than the

outbound trip. What's even more interesting is when people were told the trip was going to seem long, then it didn't seem as long. And that is something you should know. And that's the podcast today. I'm Mike Kerr Brothers. Thanks for listening to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new to Something You religious group. Enter federal agent VB Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn

between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook, starring Kelly Marie Tran and Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Jennifer, a founder of the Go Kid Go Network. At Go Kid Go, putting kids first is at the heart of every show that we produce. That's why we're so excited to introduce a brand new show to our network called The Search for the Silver Lining,

a fantasy adventure series about a spirited young girl named Isla who time travels to the mythical land of Camelot. Look for The Search for the Silver Lining on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.