Something You Should Know - The Power of Using the Right Words & How to Stop Avoiding Important Tasks

Episode Date: October 22, 2020

 Everyone likes to feel appreciation, and everyone knows just how powerful appreciation can be. However, there is one huge problem with appreciation. This episode begins with an explanation of why appreciation is important and why it is so often a missed opportunity. http://ombudsfac.unm.edu/Article_Summaries/Beyond_Reason.pdf Laughter is important. Not just the act of laughter but the word laughter. People actually like it when you use that word in conversation. That’s according to my guest Will Jelbert, a communications consultant who has spent the last eight years researching how to best use the written and spoken word to connect with people. He is also the author of Word Wise: Say What You Mean, Deepen Your Connections, and Get to the Point (https://amzn.to/358ndaX). Will joins me to explain how using the right words in the right situation can make you a much more powerful communicator.  Once you carve a pumpkin you know its clock starts ticking and it won’t be long before it turns into a moldy, gooey mess. So, what can you do to lengthen the life of your jack o’ lantern? Listen as I explain how to prolong the life by at least a week or more. https://www.realsimple.com/holidays-entertaining/holidays/halloween/how-to-make-pumpkins-last-longer “Why put off until tomorrow what you can do today?” Well, because that’s what human beings like to do – we procrastinate. Maybe if we understood why we put things off, it would be easier to actually get them done. And joining me to explain how is Matthew Boone. Matt is a psychotherapist as well as an instructor at the University of Arkansas and he is author of Stop Avoiding Stuff (https://amzn.to/2FyXTlw). Listen as he reveals a simple technique that will have you conquering all those things you keep putting off.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As a listener to Something You Should Know, I can only assume that you are someone who likes to learn about new and interesting things and bring more knowledge to work for you in your everyday life. I mean, that's kind of what Something You Should Know is all about. And so I want to invite you to listen to another podcast called TED Talks Daily. Now, you know about TED Talks, right? Many of the guests on Something You Should Know have done TED Talks. Well, you see, TED Talks Daily is a podcast that brings you a new TED Talk every weekday in less than 15 minutes. Join host Elise Hu. She goes beyond the headlines so you can hear about the big ideas shaping our future.

Learn about things like sustainable fashion, embracing your entrepreneurial spirit, the future of robotics, and so much more. Like I said, if you like this podcast, Something You Should Know, I'm pretty sure you're going to like TED Talks Daily. And you get TED Talks Daily wherever you get your podcasts. Today on Something You Should Know, appreciation is powerful, but there's something that makes

it even more powerful. I'll explain that. Then, the words you use matter. People react to certain words, like laughter. Laughter is a word that scientifically has been proven the best word to use in conversation. There was a study by the University of Vermont. They found laughter elicited more of a good feeling than any other word in the English language. Also, how to keep your jack-o'-lantern from going bad too soon.

And when we have something important to do, why do we procrastinate? You know, the explanations we typically give is that we're lazy or we're unmotivated. But I think it's helpful to think in different terms. We usually avoid an activity or a task because we're trying to stay away from some kind of internal discomfort. All this today on Something You Should Know. Since I host a podcast, it's pretty common for me to be asked to recommend a podcast. And I tell people, if you like Something You Should Know, you're going to like The Jordan Harbinger Show. Every episode is a conversation with a fascinating guest.

Of course, a lot of podcasts are conversations with guests, but Jordan does it better than most. Recently, he had a fascinating conversation with a British woman who was recruited and radicalized by ISIS and went to prison for three years. She now works to raise awareness on this issue. It's a great conversation. And he spoke with Dr. Sarah Hill about how taking birth control not only prevents pregnancy, it can influence a woman's partner preferences, career choices, and overall behavior due to the hormonal changes it causes. Apple named The Jordan Harbinger Show one of the best podcasts a few years back. And in a nutshell, the show is aimed at making you a better, more informed, critical thinker. Check out The Jordan Harbinger Show.

There's so much for you in this podcast. The Jordan Harbinger Show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Something you should know. Fascinating intel. The world's top experts. And practical advice you can use in your life. Today, Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers. Hi, welcome to Something You Should Know.

How many times have you heard about the importance and the power of appreciation? Who doesn't like to be appreciated? Appreciation is an important element in any successful relationship. It is one of the key reasons that couples either stay together or divorce. It's one of the key reasons organizations stay together or don't. But here's a problem. People don't express it. Most people acknowledge that they appreciate their mates and their co-workers and

their family members, but most appreciation is silent. And if you don't express it, it doesn't do anybody any good. What people don't often realize is that being appreciative of others gives you power. For example, in a negotiation, business or personal, the other person will be much more willing to go along with your ideas if they think you really appreciate them. And that is something you should know. Most of us are pretty good at talking. For most conversations, I imagine you don't plan out word for word what you're going to say or what order you're going to put the words in.

We just say what we're going to say. And most of the time, that's probably just fine. But words do matter. Some words are a lot better to use, and some words are a lot better to avoid. According to my guest, Will Gelbert. Will is a communications consultant and coach who works with both companies and individuals. And he has spent the last eight years researching how to best use the written and spoken word to connect with people. He is author of a book called Word Wise.

Say what you mean, deepen your connections and get to the point. Hey, Will. Hi, Mike, and your connections, and get to the point. Hey, Will. Hi, Mike, and thank you for inviting me on the show. So I guess it's because of the work I do and the kind of work I've always done, which is in radio and podcasting, that I pay attention to the words people use and that I use and that people don't use. I find it really interesting. Well, Mike, if you think about it, for some of us, this year has been a year devoid of physical contact. So words are really only all we've had to connect with one another. In some cases,

myself included, my family is in England. So when I have those conversations over the phone, I want to make sure that the connection is there, that I'm not using small talk, that I'm, you know, I want to feel connected to my family or connected to people I care about. So I think this year words matter more than ever. So let's start right off the bat here with an example of a word that people could use, use don't use that would make a big difference in some cases if we're trying to you know ask for help with something using a word such as willing interjecting that into the conversation the person is is much more likely to want to do it because we're actually giving them we're making it about them using their own will to help us out. So if I ask you, Mike, would you be willing to postpone this interview by a half hour rather than saying, hey, Mike, can you do me a favor

and postpone this interview? In most cases, people are much more likely to be agreeable to a request if it's phrased in a way which is would you be willing to do this rather than can you do me a favor and what's an example of a word that does you no good and maybe a good place to start here is with business jargon because people some people really don't like it and i can't imagine that's very helpful. When the Independent ran a survey of business travelers, they found out that touch base offline was the least liked jargon phrase. It doesn't really mean anything. So what that is, is it's abstract. And that's the problem with the words.

Almost all of the words that disconnect us is that they're not specific enough. So instead of saying touch base offline, what you could say is I'll email you tomorrow. That means something and it's more likely to happen. So another type of word trash which gets in the way of the strength of a phrase is the word just. So I recommend not using the word just, the adverb just. In 2015, actually, a former Google executive called Ellen Lenz, she decided to ban that word from her corporate communications and her whole team.

Why did she do that? Because she realized that women were using the word just more than men. And she concluded that it's a marker of a lack of confidence. I just wanted to check in on, just wondering if you decided between this option and this option, or if you can just give me an answer, or I'm just, you know, sometimes in the corporate context, we'll start an email with the line, I'm just following up on. What does that mean? I'm just following up on. So what, you know, the Google executive found was that when she struck that word just from her phrases, from her emails, it clarified and strengthened the message.

That's such a great example that I think everyone has done from time to time. And when you say, I'm just checking in, or I just need an answer, it's like, I hate to bother you. You're so important and I'm so insignificant. I'm just checking in. But we don't think of it that way. We don't see how just that word sucks the power away. What's another example? How many times have you been in a corporate presentation where the last slide says, any questions? And how often do people bring up questions when the question is phrased, any questions, in your experience? Not very often, almost never. Right. And do you know why that is? It's because any is too open-ended.

It's too abstract. So it's back to that abstract versus specific, distinguishing between what is specific language and what is abstract. Any questions doesn't encourage people to be forthcoming with questions. What it does, people can't connect with it. So if you say, does someone have a question or Mike, do you have a question? Much more likely that Mike is going to ask a question. Another example that you can just substitute, a word substitution is instead of saying, can we talk, say, can we speak about this? So talk is also associated with more things than just me moving

my mouth and tongue to make words come out talk is associated with a talk which with you know you talk the talk but you don't walk the walk so it's it's got a slight negative connotation whereas speaking has none of that negativity so So rather than using the verb talk, try using the verb speak and see what happens, as well as dropping the word just, just those two things alone. And I just said just. Other words we can drop, we have a tendency, and it's encouraged by social media to try almost to exaggerate. So how often in a relationship do you hear something like, you never listen? So that's word trash that I would describe as a lie maker. It's not true. It might be unintentional, but anyone who can hear has listened to something at some point

in their lives. Otherwise they wouldn't have learned how to speak. So what's the truth? If you never listen is a lie in a relationship, what's the truth? It's I don't think you're listening to me right now. Let's say you and I are married, Mike, obviously we're not, but you said to me, I don't feel like you're listening to me right now. I'm not going to be as defensive compared to if you've asked me or if you told me you never listen. And what I'm likely to do if you say to me you never listen is I'm going to say, well, you're always moaning about me. So that always never conversation, people get further disconnected in relationships. One phrase I know you talk about, and I've always noticed it when people say it is the phrase, I hate to tell you this. I hate to say it, but, and then they tell you something. And

my guess is that they don't really hate to say it. They're probably enjoying saying it. Rarely do people hate to say something to you. They get a kick out of saying, hate to say it, but that party was much better than yours. Did I really hate to say something to you. They get a kick out of saying, hate to say it, but that party was much better than yours. Did I really hate to say that? No, it's an ego. And using the word hate, it's unnecessary. It might seem innocent, but it's the associations with words remain, regardless of the context. I want to go back a little bit and talk about some of the corporate speak. You gave that great example. But some other examples I think would help too because it comes up a lot. I hear it and see it in emails and some of it is really off-putting.

So how often does the needle really move? People use that phrase, we've got to move the needle on sales this quarter. What do you mean? Moving the needle is a metaphor from earthquakes. Moving the needle rather than using that, why don't we just be specific and say, we're going to have a 20% increase. We're going to try and sell you 20% more acai bowls in the Northeast region next quarter. It's not going to help your business to move the needle or to tell your staff that we need to move the needle. Another thing is reach out, touch base.

Touch base is a lot of sports metaphor in corporate communications. And when we say I'll touch base with you or a circle back tomorrow how often does that actually happen what do they do do they they email you do they call you often what we found is that people don't do anything after saying a phrase like that it's of a, I'm ending this conversation and this is, you know, a way to close it without seeming impolite. We're talking today about the words you choose to use in speech and writing

and the effect that has on your relationships and connections. And my guest is Will Jelbert. He is author of the book Wordwise. from his truth that ours is not a loving God and we are not its favored children. The heresies of Randolph Bantwine, wherever podcasts are available. People who listen to Something You Should Know are curious about the world, looking to hear new ideas and perspectives. So I want to tell you about a podcast that is full of new ideas and perspectives and one I've started listening to called Intelligence Squared. It's the podcast where great minds meet. Listen in for some great talks on science, tech, politics, creativity,

wellness, and a lot more. A couple of recent examples, Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft AI, discussing the future of technology. That's pretty cool. And writer, podcaster, and filmmaker John Ronson, discussing the rise of conspiracies and culture wars. Intelligence Squared is the kind of podcast that gets you thinking a little more openly about the important conversations going on today. Being curious, you're probably just the type of person Intelligence Squared is meant for. Check out Intelligence Squared wherever you get your podcasts. So, Will, let's talk about some words that maybe I can start to sprinkle in my conversation that would make me a better conversationalist and connect me better with people. Laughter is a word that scientifically has been proven the best word to use in conversation to elicit happiness. So there was a study by the University of Vermont

in Burlington, and they took the top words that were used across the New York Times, Google Books, Twitter, and lyrics found laughter elicited more of a good feeling, of a happy feeling, than any other word in the English language. Well, that's really interesting. So work that into the conversation more often. Laughter, laughter, laughter. And you had mentioned earlier the difference between the words speak and talk, and I know you have some interesting research that really drives home the point that speak is a better word to use than talk. Elizabeth Stokos is the professor of social interaction at and her colleagues, not just herself. And she found that requests to talk are much less successful than requests to speak. So that included interactions between police negotiators and suicidal persons in crisis. So persons in crisis would say things like, I don't want to talk. What's the point in talking? But when the

verb was speak, the person was much more likely to open up to conversation. So she recommends, that's Elizabeth Stokoe, the professor, she said, use a question such as, can I speak to you about this? If you want to form a connection with the person you're addressing. Are there other words that come to mind that are magic like that? If I was going to give your listeners two words to start using more, it would be speak and willing, for sure. I would recommend using less adverbs just because they get in the way and try and substitute with specifics if you can. So rather than saying slowly, say five miles per hour. If you think about the words you use, which ones are the more specific words? What about the way you use words, not just the words

themselves, but I imagine that how you use them can also help you connect with people or not. The last sentence you use, I'll listen out for a word you use in that sentence. Now to form a connection in the conversation, it would help if I use at least one of the words that you've used in your last sentence in my response. So if you use the word coffee, say you're talking about coffee, and if I respond to you and I use the word coffee in my sentence, it could be any word that specifically you used in the last sentence. You'll feel more present, more connected to the person you're speaking with. Let's talk about small talk, because many people claim to hate it, to have to make small talk with people that doesn't really mean anything and isn't going to go anywhere. So help me make small talk easier. Well, a small talk is a lot of fun to talk about. Mike, when was the last time somebody said to you

or asked you, how's everything?'s everything mike everything's great it's impossible to respond to that with an honest answer so the next time somebody asks you that mike i would recommend saying i don't know how everything is but this whatever something specific be specific and say maybe maybe you're eating a meatball sub so So I don't know how everything is, but I'm enjoying this meatball sub. Thanks. Okay. But how's everything is a way to start a conversation because somebody has to go first and you don't know anything about this person. So you might as well start big and then narrow it down.

So how's everything? Seems like it may not be a bad way to at least start a conversation i'd say it's it's a way to start a conversation that's not likely to elicit much connection or specifics what would be better you can say how was your morning that's that narrows it down to then it makes it easier for the person to respond to something that came from the morning they'll instantly think about what they did that day and it just makes it easier for your recipient of the question to provide you with a an answer that means something and then and then where do you go where's a good way to go a good place to go after you know how's everything or how's your morning and there's

a little back and forth and and and then things kind of die off oh so what do you do what kind of work do you do um it's it's a struggle sometimes you know what reduces the struggle and it doesn't have to be a struggle also struggle itself is a not helpful word, Mike, you know, because then it's perhaps created something that an association with struggle meaning of those words creeps into the conversation because people know what those words really mean. But is that you just being overly sensitive to words like struggle and slay? Or do we really know that that happens, that people take the true meaning of that and absorb that into what they just heard? Or are you just being really sensitive to this? It's probably because I've been obsessed with words for the last three years. But what I have seen, it's not just me that's noticing this,

it's the people who are measuring psychological valence of words people are in you know there are the financial markets for example are to some degree now influenced by word usage so individual words that get used put out in an article a news article may get rated for sentiment so if you use the word struggle in a news article it would have a negative impact on the the view of that story so that that has the power to actually cause a stock price to drop so it's it's um it's real it has a real impact in the real world okay so in a conversation if i'm not going to use the word struggle where i would normally use it, what would be better? Well, I've heard people say in a workshop, I'm struggling to understand.

And it usually puts the person they're saying that to on the defensive. What I would recommend saying instead of I'm struggling to understand is be specific about what it is you don't understand. So I don't understand how we're going to increase the sales target by 20% in New York for meatballs. Be more specific. Struggle to understand. It's so abstract that it doesn't need to be that big. Are there any words that really seem to bother you or the research says are really off-putting for other people? I'm not a fan of the new normal. The truth is it's the new abnormal, right?

If something's new, it's not normal. Okay, well, that's a good example because I don't have strong feelings about the term new normal one way or the other. But what I do know is when somebody uses the term, I know exactly what they mean. So in its ability to communicate something, new normal seems like a pretty good word. I mean, it's good that you don't get brought down by that usage, but some of the people I've been speaking to, they feel it's a sort of doom and gloom scenario, sort't know if this is the new normal you're saying that but we don't necessarily know that things won't go back to the way they were we don't know that this is it so yeah i guess you're right yeah that saying new normal is making a statement that you're really unqualified to make yeah it's a buzzword it's

almost like a corporate jargon phrase and's spread across society and the media. But what would you use instead? How things are right now. So just focus on what the situation, what restrictions are in place right now. What can you do now, at the moment? So instead of saying the new normal, say at the moment, be present. What's happening now? Well, I think you've given new meaning to the phrase words matter, not only to the words that you choose to use, but perhaps the words you choose to leave off to have a more meaningful conversation that connects with other people. Will Gelbert has been my guest. He is a communications consultant and coach, and he is author of the book, Word Wise. Say what you mean, deepen your connections, and get to the point.

And there's a link to that book at Amazon in the show notes. Thanks for coming on, Will. Thanks, Mike. I appreciate you for having me on the show today. And it's been fun talking about words with you. Thank you. Do you love Disney? Then you are going to love

our hit podcast, Disney Countdown. I'm Megan, the Magical Millennial. And I'm the Dapper Danielle. On every episode of our fun and family-friendly show,

we count down our top 10 lists of all things Disney. There is nothing we don't cover. We are famous for rabbit holes, Disney-themed games,

and fun facts you didn't know you needed, but you definitely need in your life. So if you're looking for a healthy dose of Disney magic, check out Disney Countdown wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. Join me, Megan Rinks. And me, Melissa Demonts for Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong? Each week we deliver four fun filled shows. In Don't Blame Me, we tackle our listeners' dilemmas with hilariously honest

advice. Then we have But Am I Wrong, which is for the listeners that didn't take our advice. Plus, we share our hot takes on current events. Then tune in to see you next Tuesday for our listener poll results from But Am I Wrong. And finally, wrap up your week with Fisting Friday, where we catch up and talk all things pop culture. Listen to Don't Blame Me, But Am I Wrong on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. Isn't it weird that when we know we have to get stuff done, at least most of us, we find ways to avoid doing it. Why? If you have to get something done,

why not just get it done? Well, maybe if we understood why we put things off and avoid doing them, we could find a better way to avoid the avoiding and just actually do what we're supposed to do. Well, here with some insight into this whole problem is Matt Boone. Matt is a psychotherapist and author of the book, Stop Avoiding Stuff. Hi, Matt. Welcome to the program. Hi, thanks for having me. So it seems pretty common to put stuff off, procrastinate, and then beat yourself up for procrastinating. But why do we do it? Well, you know, the explanations we typically give is that we're lazy or we're unmotivated. But I think it's helpful to think in different terms. We usually avoid an activity or a task because we're trying to stay away from some kind of internal discomfort, whether it's

negative thoughts or uncomfortable emotions or sensations in our bodies, or a constellation of all those things. So really, when you're not doing the assignment that you've set out for yourself or the work task, you're trying to stay away from that stuff. And if you can learn to have that stuff in a new way, to basically approach the discomfort, it's much easier to do the task. So when you say approach the discomfort, it's much easier to do the task. So when you say approach the discomfort, what does that mean? Let's think about procrastinating on an assignment. Let's say you're a student, for example. I've done a lot of work with students in my role as a psychotherapist.

If someone is avoiding a paper or a problem set, it's often because if they were to do it, they would feel anxious because their mind might be telling them, you're not going to do this well, or you're going to get a bad grade, or even harsher stuff that our minds offer us. And what you can learn to do is just notice your mind, to not fight it, to not push it away, but just notice what your mind is offering you in a way that gives you some freedom to act in opposition of it. And also welcome and make space for emotions that might be uncomfortable, like anxiety or guilt or shame because you haven't been doing this task and you feel bad about it or the worries that you're never going to get it done.

So help me learn that. Teach me how to do that. The method I work with is called acceptance and commitment therapy or acceptance and commitment training. And it's a research backed intervention model. So basically, it starts with connecting to your emotions, like actually noticing what the emotion feels like in your body. The way you might just notice, you know, the taste of a cup of coffee or feeling of sunlight on your face. These are just experiences. It's also about becoming intimately acquainted with your mind, not so much the content of your mind, like what is it telling me, but noticing that your mind is offering you often evaluations, judgments, predictions, kind of all that negative

stuff we want to push away. But really, we can't push things away so easily. When we do, a lot of research data suggests that those things get stronger. If you try to make a thought go away, it'll kind of bounce back, especially if it's a painful thought. Same thing with emotions. So we learn to open up to those emotions and just allow them to be without trying to change them. And then from that place, kind of connect to what's important to you. We call that your values. So, you know, why would you do this assignment that you have in front of you? Maybe you want an A or maybe you just want to get it done. But if you think big picture, like, why are you in school? Why are you studying? I work a lot with medical students and I often ask them, like, why are you

in medicine to begin with? And so if you're going to sit down to do an assignment you might be avoiding, you're going to feel uncomfortable. But if you're doing it in that context, it's a lot easier to do. Well, my experience is, and I think for many, is it's always getting started. It's always beginning the process of whatever it is you say you have to do,, you need to break up with somebody or do some work or clean the closet or it's getting started that's the big problem. That's right. And people often wait around to feel the right thing before they do the right thing, assuming that I can't act unless I feel motivated or I feel confident. We all have the experience that once we get started, usually motivation arrives. Motivation usually follows action. It's not really the other way around most of the time. Which is hard to remember in the moment,

but I think it is. It's everybody's experience that once you start something, that's how the momentum builds is, okay, I've got that done. Now I can keep going. Absolutely. If I can, I can give you an example from my own life. Just this morning, preparing to have this conversation with you, I was feeling kind of nervous. You know, I wanted to do a good job. And it was that kind of nervous where I couldn't focus on anything. And what I wanted to do is just write out a couple of key points to myself. But I was wandering around my house washing dishes and basically avoiding. So I thought about, you know, what's my life's work about? So I sat down at my desk, and I just wrote out the three negative thoughts that were showing up for me at that time. Here's what they were. What you say will be dull and uninspired. You know,

thank you, mind for that one. You're going to trip on your words or blank out, and you're going to feel nervous when you do this. And so just putting them on paper and seeing them without trying to challenge them or fight them kind of gave me a little distance and said, oh, yeah, those are kind of habitual thoughts that I have. And then I kind of wrote down, what are my feeling right now? I noticed I'm having a bodily anxious feeling, like I'm feeling keyed up. I can feel my heart just a little bit. And then I thought, well, what's important here? And honestly, I wrote it down. I'm reading it right now. Like, if I really tune into why I'm here in this moment, it's about making a difference. You know, I'm a mental health professional, like that's really important to me. It's about reaching people, like connecting with them, and maybe even helping other people help

other people, which is part of my life where I help therapists become better therapists. And it's also about living a rich life by doing interesting things. And even as I'm talking about that, it sounds a little cheesy, but I get a little bit of chills as I'm connecting to what's important to me in this moment. And it makes it much easier to carry this nervousness and anxiety that will inevitably show up. And so are you nervous and anxious now, or does that help alleviate it? Often it does help alleviate it, but I don't make that the goal, because then I'm trying to control my thoughts and feelings again, which is kind of a problem.

But yes, reliably, if I do something like that, the anxiety and the nervousness becomes less present for me. But it doesn't go away completely, and that's okay. So the process that you described that you went through to prepare for this interview today, it seems fairly simple. I mean, is that it? I don't want to reduce this to something simplistic, like here are the five easy steps to overcome procrastination for good in your life. It's more like an approach to life where you learn over time and you never completely learn the skill of being willing with discomfort,

of showing up to what's there, even though it's hard. Here's another example from my life. So my father has a chronic illness. He has Parkinson's with dementia. And I haven't seen my parents in quite a long time because of the pandemic. But when I could go out to visit them in California, where I'm from, it would be really hard to be there watching him in his decline and also watching my mom, who's in her 80s, be his primary

caretaker. And I would do my best to help. But in order to do that, I had to feel sad. And I had to feel anxious about the future and my parents. And I had to actually come to grips with my own mortality a little bit. And so it's not like I did those things and they were done. But I said to myself, this is really important to you to be the kind of son you want to be. So as I walk in there, I'm going to be kind of mindful with these emotions and not try to push them away. And what I find in what the research tells us, when you don't push away the negative stuff, you also get more access to the positive stuff. Like some of my best experiences in the last couple of years have been with my mom, helping her bathe my dad, get him in and out of bed. I mean, it's been hard, but it's been really meaningful. And I treasure those moments with my

mom. And I think if people tune into their own lives, they've noticed that happening quite a lot for them as well. We just don't identify that having the hard stuff is important for having the good stuff too. If you think back, if anybody thinks back to times where they've done this, where they put things off or they felt very uncomfortable doing it, after it's over, I would say nine times out of ten, the feeling is, well, that wasn't so bad and maybe it was even good, but it's never as bad as you think it's going to be. That's true. That's true. The trick is that sometimes reminding yourself of doing of that doesn't actually help you get motivated, though sometimes it can. A strategy I like to use myself and with the clients I work with is to ask them to imagine themselves 20 years from now,

and what kind of kind, compassionate advice they might give to themselves. And often from that perspective, where they're not just thinking about this moment, but they're thinking about the arc of their life, this kind of moment of like, say, breaking up with somebody tends to feel less weighty and tends to be part of this bigger picture. And also, the emotions, the sadness, the anger, the anxiety that might show up become just kind of natural byproducts of doing the right thing or living a meaningful life. One of the things that I find that does motivate me is when there's something I'm putting off, it nags at me and nags at me and nags at me. And if I just do it, it's off my plate.

It's done. And I can see the other side and I go, you know what, let's just get this over with because then I'm done with it. It could be that, but it also could be different from that, right? Like not, like I don't know how it operates for you, Mike, but like, if you, I don't know if that's kind of like a browbeating yourself or casting it in yourself to get it done. Um, or if it's more like a, Hey, like a kind message to yourself, um, based in what's important to you. Like I'm going to do this task because not only will I probably feel better when it's done, but also it's part of like my life's work or part of the show I create every day.

Or it's part of kind of making a difference in the world. When you can connect it to your values, when you can connect it to what's important to you, that becomes just a little bit easier. And it becomes easier to actually move your feet in that moment. Because people will often say to themselves over and over again, if you just do it, it'll feel better. But they'll sit day when I get up, I've got to go get that. I've got to go get that. And yesterday I said, this is stupid. I'm just, let's just go get it. And I did it. And now I haven't thought about it until just now, but, but that's right. It has nothing to do with my life's work. It's just one of those things. It's like hitting yourself with a hammer. If you stop, it feels really good. Yeah. Well, this method in this model is also about just

paying closer attention to your experience and spending less time in your head. So that's something your experience tells you. If I stop hitting myself with the hammer, it's going to stop hurting. But people spend time in their head ruminating about it, or I should do this, or I shouldn't do this all the time. Also, I'm curious, was there any kind of pain in the butt factor that you felt going to get your smog check? Like something that was like, oh, it felt boring or it felt kind of like a waste of time or you had other things you'd rather be doing when you did it? Well, I would rather do just about anything than go get my smog checked, kind of in the same way that I'd rather do anything instead of getting a root canal.

But, you know, it's one of those things that has to get done. But there's no fun in it. There's no, it's often, there's a wait. And so it's more of the hassle factor than anything else. Sure, absolutely. Like you said, usually the experience is not as bad as we imagine it's going to be. But we could probably conceptualize your behavior as you trying to stay away from that hassle, right? Like there are many other fun things to do during the day than approaching that hassle. And what if we can learn that, like to actually

be there with the hassle just a little bit more in a way that's lighter and not fighting it and being grumpy about it, but just sort of embracing the hassle a little bit as like a byproduct of life, it becomes easier to actually just get off our butts and do something. Yeah, but it does seem to be human nature to avoid. It just seems to be, well, actually, I don't know. I mean, I know people that when they have things to do, they just go do it. And I envy that, but it does seem more often than not, people will put stuff off. Yeah, I think it's built into us. I think we are evolutionarily shaped to do that. If we think about like, who are we descended from? We are descended from the people who stayed away

from danger, right? We are really good at escaping and hiding. That's one of the things that kept us alive because we do not have sharp claws and sharp teeth, right? And so we're typically kind of built to stay away from anything that's uncomfortable. Of course, we overcome that all the time. But anytime someone tells me, I just don't, I know what I need to do, but I'm not doing it. I, you know, I say, welcome to the human race. And of course, there are those exceptions. Like my mom is a kind of person who, as they say, she's from Scotland, they say she never lets the grass grow under her feet. Like that woman can do anything all day long, every day. It amazes me.

But the rest of us are kind of struggling with our own kind of willfulness that we don't want to deal with the hassle. And so let's recap, because if somebody has something to do and they don't want to do it, what's the process? So the process is to pay attention to and ask yourself, what is it that I'm staying away from that would show up inside me if I were to do this task? If I were to go get my smog check, what would I be experiencing? It would be some kind of thought, feeling, sensation, or constellation of those things. And then to notice the messages that your mind is giving you about it. Messages that we tend to not even notice are messages from our mind. They just feel like this is the way the world is.

Messages like what? A message like, I shouldn't have to deal with this. This is too big a pain in the butt. Or I shouldn't have to deal with this. This is too big a pain in the butt. Or why do I have to deal with this? Or this always sucks. You know, the kinds of things our minds might say to us. We rarely notice that our minds are offering us thoughts. We're just in the middle of the thoughts as if that's the way the world is.

But we can notice the stream of the thoughts as thoughts themselves. And there are a lot of great techniques to do that. Then they don't have quite so much power over us, they feel a little bit weaker, and it's like easier to change our behavior in that moment. And then embrace the discomfort that shows up, you know, just have it kind of like you might have that kind of sore muscle lactic acid feeling after exercising a lot like it's not something i have to avoid i can just have and then do the next right thing and do the next right thing after that and do the next right thing after that and then it's done and then it's done and then there's

something else to do as there always is yeah but is, everybody knows that feeling of when you do something that you've put off, and you finally do get it done, it feels good. And I wonder if it feels better than if you had just done it in the first place. Like, it's the hammer in the head theory. I think that is true for a lot of people. I, you know, we probably both know lots of people, and maybe sometimes we look like this ourselves, like, that leave things to the last minute. And with that high pressure deadline, it kind of feels like we're really doing something important while we're doing it.

And then when it's over, there's this giant relief. And that's pretty rewarding and reinforcing. And it also gives us the sense that like, we did everything we possibly could, because we're working so hard for that short amount of time. It's a lot harder for some folks to kind of do their work on a schedule to keep up with things, because it doesn't have that kind of, you know, high pressure payoff. Well, this really shines a light, I guess, on what's going on in my head and everyone else's head when we're procrastinating and what we're telling ourselves and how we're fighting with ourselves. And this is really illuminating.

It really helps. Matt Boone has been my guest. He is a psychotherapist and author of the book Stop Avoiding Stuff. And you will find a link to that book at Amazon in the show notes. Thank you, Matt. Okay. Thanks, Mike. I really appreciate it. It's hard to know what Halloween's going to look like this year, but if you've gone to the effort of carving a pumpkin to put on the front porch,

you might as well make it last longer. Here are some simple steps to take that could double its porch life. First, wash your pumpkin before you carve it. Here are some simple steps to take that could double its porch life. First, wash your pumpkin before you carve it. Then, add a touch of bleach to a spray bottle of water and spray your pumpkin inside and out. This kills the bacteria and fungus that will break down the pumpkin. Rub all the cut or carved edges of your pumpkin with petroleum jelly. This keeps the bacteria out and the moisture in.

And if you keep your pumpkin out of direct sunlight, you will add about a week to its life. Also, if there's a really cold night in the forecast, consider bringing your pumpkin inside to avoid freezing. When the pumpkin freezes and then thaws, it just accelerates the collapse factor. And that is something you should know. Most of the people who listen to this podcast are subscribers, because subscribing makes it easy.

The episodes are delivered right to the device you listen on, so you don't have to go find them. So if you're not a subscriber, it's easy to do, it's free, you just hit the subscribe button button and there you go. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something You Should Know. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated

Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. Chinook, starring Kelly Marie Tran and

Sanaa Lathan. Listen to Chinook wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Rob Benedict. And I am Richard Spate. We were both on a little show you might know called Supernatural. It had a pretty good run, 15 seasons, 327 episodes. And though we have seen, of course, every episode many times, we figured, hey, now that we're wrapped, let's watch it all again. And we can't do that alone. So we're inviting the cast and crew that made the show along for the ride. We've got writers, producers, composers, directors, and we'll of course have some actors on

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